What really happened in Austin : -)
StMeechTheThwacked
Nonetheless, I must thank sine nomine for having invited us all to
the Centre of the Universe, from our respective Hellholes, and in
particular, I would like to thank sine for allowing me to bunk at her
apartment for 2 nights, and also for escorting me on a tour of Austin's
patios.
Here is my report!
**********************************************************************
Well, meech, the pustulating one from Oak Ridge, arrived in Austin on Thursday
night in a bit of a panic. Would sine meet him there? I knew that sine worked
funny hours in her job, and I had a strategy for finding her, in case the
ultimate awfulness happened and she was not able to meet me. The plan was to
run to the nearest motel, and then head down to the UTexas computing center
and attempt to identify likely computer enthusiasts madly typing at their
keyboards, and see if they answer to "sine". You might think this was not a
problem, but I did not have her address, because she had promised to meet me.
But hey, I am neurotic, and an obsessive worrier, and I like to plan for
contingencies, like her bus getting stuck in traffic, or beamed up by aliens,
so I like to have an alternate plan of action in case the first one doesn't
work.....
So when I got off the plane, and into the terminal, there was no one at the gate
who resembled the description of herself that sine sent me. So I immediately
started thinking about finding a gutter to curl up in for the night. So I
walked out of the terminal, and at the entrance to the terminal, I noticed
a suspicious person staring at me. "You must be Meech!"
she said, or something to that effect, having spotted my ponytail and my black
t-shirt. I was happy not to put my contingency plan of sleeping in the gutter
into action, as I had luggage.
So we took off on the bus to downtown Austin, one transfer, the whole trip not
taking too long since the aeroport is not very far from downtown. We dropped of
my luggage at sine's place and went straight to Posse East, a lovely
bar/restaurant with a patio, where I was positively abliss at the sight of
15 draft taps, only a few of which emitted domestic brew. The first words
that emanated from my lips were "I'll have a pint of Guiness", after which
I repeated that several more times. And sine and I yakked about stuff that
I am sure would be meaningless to most of y'all.
(Oh, in case, the apparent consumption of said fermented beverages
sounds a bit excessive, which it was not, although it was one of the highlights
of the trip, let me state that in Tennessee, there is no imported draft beer
available, nor any cottage brewery beer. Just the mass produced stuff
from the big breweries. Which might be connected to the Guvenor's previous
life as a beer distributor, now catering to his cronies, but perhaps not....
Anyhow, that explains my gusto....)
After which I went back to her apartment, and crashed on her futon, while
she went out to the computing center, saying: "I'll be back in a couple of
hours!" Well, she returned around 10 or 11AM. Didn't hear me snoring,
thank the Lawd!
Nothing much happened on Friday. Woke up to the stunning discovery that
a lawn sale had mysteriously appeared over night. Including a rather
awesome WW II army helmet turned into a lamp! Which I would have bought
had it not been necessary to rewire it before use.
So we hung around, anticipating the arrival
of Rachel and Jeff. I bought some Shiner Bock in the corner store, and
got carded. "Don't you have any ID from Texas?" the clerk asked. Had a
couple of these delightful beverages over the course of the afternoon, while
yakking some more with sine, and the she went to work, while I continued to
wait for Rachel and Jeff. I read for a while, and then dozed off.
Several hours later, in my
stupor, I heard a knock on the door, and answered it. Rachel at the door,
asking for sine. "Sine's at work," I replied. "I'm Meech!" Rachel screamed:
"Jeff! Get me out of here!" And immediately leapt into a defensive
Tae Kwon Do posture.... After I regained consciousness we all went off to the
Pizza place and ordered several large pizzas, minus jalapenos, and I had
a Newcastle, and I believe Rachel had one also, and Jeff had several
barrels of Fosters.
We made an arrangement that I would call them at their hotel sometime before
noon on Saturday.
Sine's apartment was kinda small, so with sine's help I migrated down
the street to the Rodeway Inn on Saturday morn, which thankfully was close to
The Egg Place, of which Chuck speaks. Great Omelettes, and a bottomless
coffee cup. I attempted to call Rachel and Jeff a couple of times around
10AM, but I figured that it
was too early to panic when I could not reach them. We popped into their
hotel and hung around the lobby. It occured to me that I might start
begging for quarters. Then we wandered again, and stopped in a
place where it is apparently common to "Expose oneself to good food!" where I
did not in face expose myself, but had a couple Shiner Bocks. Pardon
me if the chronology is a bit rough.
So sine and I went out on the town, hiked around, visited the Capitol building,
where I experimented with the echo under the dome. And a few times we attempted
to contact Rachel and Jeff at their hotel. After hiking around, we walked
back to sine's place. Yes, almost everything one would want is within walking
distance of sine's. Paradise. Unlike Tennessee, where everything you might
want is atleast 1000 miles away. :-)
Here's where we intersect Chuck's account. We're at sine's place, about to
wander to the Pizza place when Chuck spots me. I won't insert his account.
Or Sine's here. Except for a few bits here and there. Anyway, at the
Pizza place we also encounter Nexus who had been wandering around looking
for us, without, of course, knowing what we look like.
From: mac...@spdc.ti.com (King Mosher)
King Mosher's Own Weird Party Angst
*It was far from bliss. It was very angstful. A bunch of "kids" sitting around
*watching Ren and Stimpy, not saying a word but incessantly laughing (it was
*funny "I'm the lemon merchant and you are the keeper of the cheese"). Like
*a strange beverly hills 90210 episode. I felt very old, very out-of-place and
*very unhip (not having at least one earring). Quite angstful.
Definitely, a very unnerving experience. I am still trying to figure out where
exactly Powdered Toastman fits into my life. Still it was kinda amusing.
Weird to be in an environment where the debauching was so subdued. Made me
wish I was 19 and carefree again, instead of having my festering flesh
decaying and dropping off my bones in Oak Ridge.
*So, quickly leaving the party, we headed to 6th street, the party spot in
*Austin. Went to EMO's and watched a heavy metal band. They actually played
*some quite angstful songs such as "life sucks" and things of this nature.
*It was then I noticed that I'm really out of it. Everyone was dressed
*differently than people in Dallas. it is _so_ white collarish here. I thought
*this was normal behavior but Austin is quite different. Like I remember the
*70's. long hair, leather, tattoos, jewelry. It was then I realized I had sold
*my soul for a paycheck.
Or my more shocking realization that I sold my soul to the DOE, and volunteered
to move to Oak Ridge.
The Birth of King Mosh, the Master of Brownian Motion. Couldn't quite coax
Chuck to get out there and bash some kids on the dance floor. A few teeth
knocked out, and he would have made some friends for life. At the very
least this moshing business has potential to be numerically simulated
on very large massively parallel supercomputers owned by the DOE.
Still no Rachel and Jeff. We look for strange lights in the sky. We
nearly lose Chuck's car, then suddenly discover it exactly where we left it.
It greated us with some delighted beeps. We dropped off sine who claimed to
want to sleep while Nexus and Chuck and I went to the Roadway Inn.
*To the rodeway. Rest. Up next day, arghh, headache, and we didn't even drink
*meech's rebel yell, Nexus's St.Brendan's or my stoli. meech went to get
*sine and came back sine-less. She wouldn't budge. Nexus wouldn't budge either.
*Breakfast with meech.
Rest? We watched MTV until almost 5AM..... Nexus and Chuck
were involved in some controversial discussions, which, if I am not mistaken,
revolved around Madonna, pouring genetically altered E. Coli down the kitchen
sink, and politics. Ok... It was late. Maybe I don't quite remember
all the details..... Offerred to wake everyone up
around 10AM for breakfast. I was up around 9 and promptly trundled over
to Chuck's room, where I roused him, and told him that I was going to
see if sine was awake and if yes, how about breakfast in an hour or so.
Sine was not inclined to wakefulness at that hour, so I returned to the
motel, and retrieved Chuck. At this point we attempted to wake Nexus.
Nexus regained consciousness, and said he would meet us at The Egg Place
a little later. So Chuck "I feel much better now" and I went to The Egg Place
and feasted. Yes, I like The Egg Place, and I agree with Chuck's summary.
Eventually Nexus showed up, and we all sat around The Egg Place for several more
hours, holding our heads. Then Chuck took off to Dallas, while Nexus and I
explored the college drag. Went to a great bookstore called Europa, where
Nexus was positively delirious in the presence of so much good reading material.
I, too, admit to a certain weakness, and bought several books, not having been
in a bookstore for 9 months. A last Shiner Bock for Nexus at The Hole in the
Wall, which is, in fact, a hole in the wall. Pizza. Nexus off to the
aeroport. Meech to sine's. Off to Posse East.
Monday, I prowled around the University some more. A short stint at
Posse East. Vietnamese (sort of) lunch. Bought a Dali t-shirt guaranteed
to offend Baptist matrons. Off to the aeroport. Back to Tennessee.
At the Aeroport in Knoxville I was met by my physics boss, who dragged me
to his house at 11PM at night, plopped me in front of his PC, and made me
do several nasty integrals with Macsyma. Get home at 1AM, all tuckered out.
I am quite happy that all the people I was thought to have kidnapped have
turned up alive and well, somewhere.
As you can see, the activities of this event revolved around pizza and
patios to a perhaps excessive degree. No one wound up in the hospital
or in jail. A good time was had by all, and I think it would be a
great idea to arrange another event of this sort somewhere.
Meech
earthbound misfit, I
> As you can see, the activities of this event revolved around pizza and
> patios to a perhaps excessive degree. No one wound up in the hospital
> or in jail. A good time was had by all, and I think it would be a
> great idea to arrange another event of this sort somewhere.
Definitely, and in Palmerston North. It's cold, it's flat, it's boring,
there's very little to do here, and it would cost you all many $$$$ to make
the trip. What better place for an angsters get-together?
- k
--
Craig Harding kil...@acme.gen.nz ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"
Jo Namio
desert.Not the picturesque desert north of Phoenix, or the postcard desert
toward TOOOOson, but the boring, ugly scruffy-looking tarantual filled desert
rolling out my window here to the east. In the region of Apache Junction. We
could meet at Lost Dutchman's Mine......
And the temperature is even under 100 degrees now!
......j.
Rachel J. Perkins
yeah, well that might be a possibility. but not yet. lemme recover from the
last trip. bah.
ObAngst: time to visit my parents on saturday. hooray. another chance for
them to try and prevent me from returning to university. perhaps i'll have
to walk to the bus station again. but at least it's under 100 degrees now...
--
-just give me what for,
rachel perkins = rper...@astro.as.arizona.edu
"Chastity..the most unnatural of all the sexual perversions...."
-Aldous Huxley
King Mosher
>In article <92295.13...@ASUACAD.BITNET> ID...@ASUACAD.BITNET writes:
>>I think it would be deserving for angsters to have to get together in the
>>desert.Not the picturesque desert north of Phoenix, or the postcard desert
>>toward TOOOOson, but the boring, ugly scruffy-looking tarantual filled desert
>>rolling out my window here to the east. In the region of Apache Junction. We
>>could meet at Lost Dutchman's Mine......
>>
>>And the temperature is even under 100 degrees now!
>yeah, well that might be a possibility. but not yet. lemme recover from the
>last trip. bah.
>ObAngst: time to visit my parents on saturday. hooray. another chance for
>them to try and prevent me from returning to university. perhaps i'll have
>to walk to the bus station again. but at least it's under 100 degrees now...
Rachel, I must say that as the austin angstcon proceded without you and Jeff's
presense, meech and nexus were insinuating, in their terribly conservative
way, that perhaps not listening to your parents was the root of all your
angst. Come on now. Awhile back you were complaining about your students and
how you hated flunk them but had to. Would you have had to worry about
that if you were at home, married, barefoot and pregnant, like your father
would prefer? Think about it. Not a care in the world. Just make sure
your husband's food is on the table at 6:00, the house is clean. accomplish
those tasks and you can watch all the soap operas you desire. what bliss ;)
--
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me.
Chuck Machala-Semiconductor Process and Design Center-Texas Instruments/Dallas
Rachel J. Perkins
>
>Rachel, I must say that as the austin angstcon proceded without you and Jeff's
>presense, meech and nexus were insinuating, in their terribly conservative
>way, that perhaps not listening to your parents was the root of all your
>angst. Come on now. Awhile back you were complaining about your students and
>how you hated flunk them but had to. Would you have had to worry about
>that if you were at home, married, barefoot and pregnant, like your father
>would prefer? Think about it. Not a care in the world. Just make sure
>your husband's food is on the table at 6:00, the house is clean. accomplish
>those tasks and you can watch all the soap operas you desire. what bliss ;)
>
AAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIGH!!!!
sorry about that.
you're right, chuck. who wants to marry me? i'm a great cook, and i give good
head. isn't that all men are supposed to want? (oh, and them child-bearin'
hips, too.) oh, and DO protect me from education. i don't know what's been
wrong with me these last four years of university...
and soap operas are great for living vicariously through beautiful brainless
people, especially bowheads who will make more money than i ever will with an
astrophysics degree.
god i'm hungry. i haven't eaten since last night. i get paid on friday though.
o'course, if i were married, it would be my husband's duty to put food on
the table...
bah.
Keith C. Estanol
>In article <machala.719783658@delphi> mac...@spdc.ti.com (King Mosher) writes:
>
>
>you're right, chuck. who wants to marry me? i'm a great cook, and i give good
>head. isn't that all men are supposed to want? (oh, and them child-bearin'
you give great head? did I just hear you right?
Say, is it too late for me to send out my net.proposal?
You know what, rachel. this was the wrong thing to say on the net.
;)
Keith C. Estanol | st...@ucsd.edu
UCSD, Cognitive Science | st...@ucsd.bitnet
Institute of Geo and Planetary Physics : kest...@bull.ucsd.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------
"We don't want to be victims, on that we all agree.
So we lock up the killer instinct, and throw away the key.."
Rachel J. Perkins
>In article <1992Oct22.2...@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> rper...@astro.as.arizona.edu (Rachel J. Perkins) writes:
>>In article <machala.719783658@delphi> mac...@spdc.ti.com (King Mosher) writes:
>>
>>
>>you're right, chuck. who wants to marry me? i'm a great cook, and i give good
>>head. isn't that all men are supposed to want? (oh, and them child-bearin'
>
>you give great head? did I just hear you right?
>Say, is it too late for me to send out my net.proposal?
>You know what, rachel. this was the wrong thing to say on the net.
>;)
>
i am not amused. sorry, this was just my impression of what most (i said
_most_, not all) men find attractive in a woman. is sarcasm just a little
bit over your head? if i wanted proposals, i'd post to personals. not here.
but no, i said it here. i don't need chiding, keith. i realize that what you
said was also meant humourously, but it sort of detracts from what i meant
to express.
or maybe it threw it into sharp relief.
StMeechTheThwacked
>
>>yeah, well that might be a possibility. but not yet. lemme recover from the
>>last trip. bah.
>
>>ObAngst: time to visit my parents on saturday. hooray. another chance for
>>them to try and prevent me from returning to university. perhaps i'll have
>>to walk to the bus station again. but at least it's under 100 degrees now...
>
>Rachel, I must say that as the austin angstcon proceded without you and Jeff's
>presense, meech and nexus were insinuating, in their terribly conservative
>way, that perhaps not listening to your parents was the root of all your
>angst.
I must have been insinuating that quite conservatively because I don't
remember having attempted to insinuate that. Perhaps, in my beer-adled
state I may have mumbled something which might have seemed like that in
that noisy environment, if, for example, the booming punk band made
it necessary attempt lip-reading. Or, if the Madonna videos were becoming
too distracting....
>Come on now. Awhile back you were complaining about your students and
>how you hated flunk them but had to. Would you have had to worry about
>that if you were at home, married, barefoot and pregnant, like your father
>would prefer? Think about it. Not a care in the world. Just make sure
>your husband's food is on the table at 6:00, the house is clean. accomplish
>those tasks and you can watch all the soap operas you desire. what bliss ;)
>
I can see how a lot of Ms. Perkins' problems might be traced to her parents.
But I don't think that her problems would be solved if she sacrificed her
self-interests to make her interactions with them easier. Maybe there would
be less friction at home, but she would always have the nagging thought that
she was capable of accomplishing so much more in life, but didn't, in so
catering to someone else's sexist philosophy of life.
AS a similar example, should I actively attempt to conform to the Ken
stereotype in order to be more successful with women? People tell I should,
all the time. I am lectured frequently how if I want to meet women here,
I should cut my hair, and dress in nice Woolworth shirts (with buttons),
and do blah blah blah.... Not talk about blah blah blah.... And blah
blah blah..... And I don't want to do that. If I impose certain screening
mechanisms by being the way I want to be, at least I don't have to expend
more effort filtering out people from my life that I am not really
interested in having around.
Ms. Perkins, by being different is doing exactly that, and, although it may
be stressful at times, in the long run, it will likely lead to a more
satisfying life.....
Meech
Keith C. Estanol
>
>_most_, not all) men find attractive in a woman. is sarcasm just a little
>bit over your head? if i wanted proposals, i'd post to personals. not here.
>but no, i said it here. i don't need chiding, keith. i realize that what you
>said was also meant humourously, but it sort of detracts from what i meant
>to express.
>
>or maybe it threw it into sharp relief.
My apologies.
ObAngst:
She's not my girlfriend. Who is she then?
I need a new relationship, but I can't escape, not that I haven't
tried numerous times. This is all very vague, and to top it all off
a lightning storm cut me off the network at 2:30 AM. sigh.
Every day, every minute.. every second I spend with.. oh gods.
And I just crashed the HP in here too. Arghh. I'm outta here.
Yong-Mi Kim
>you're right, chuck. who wants to marry me? i'm a great cook, and i give good
>head. isn't that all men are supposed to want? (oh, and them child-bearin'
>hips, too.) oh, and DO protect me from education. i don't know what's been
>wrong with me these last four years of university...
>
>and soap operas are great for living vicariously through beautiful brainless
>people, especially bowheads who will make more money than i ever will with an
>astrophysics degree.
>
>
>god i'm hungry. i haven't eaten since last night. i get paid on friday though.
>o'course, if i were married, it would be my husband's duty to put food on
>the table...
>
>bah.
May I recommend the group alt.bitterness? The charter must be around
somewhere, I thought it described quite well the mindset of a large
number of people in this group.
Oh, me? Well, I have no man, no job (well, not one that pays real
money), and no advanced degrees until I resolve an incomplete at my
previous institution. Then I get to study for comps here. Hooray.
The worst part is realizing that maybe one's parents and other family
members were right and maybe I should have gotten married right
after college or gone to business school instead of this fruitless
pursuit of a Ph.D. in Computer Science. And the career choice tests
I took back as an undergrad told me I should become a lawyer.
yong-mi
is it just me or are the freshmen getting worse every year?
Mr. Coates
# >
# >you give great head? did I just hear you right?
# >Say, is it too late for me to send out my net.proposal?
# >You know what, rachel. this was the wrong thing to say on the net.
# >;)
He used a smiley, babe, he was only joking!
# i am not amused. sorry, this was just my impression of what most (i said
# _most_, not all) men find attractive in a woman. is sarcasm just a little
# bit over your head? if i wanted proposals, i'd post to personals. not here.
# but no, i said it here. i don't need chiding, keith. i realize that what you
# said was also meant humourously, but it sort of detracts from what i meant
# to express.
#
# or maybe it threw it into sharp relief.
#
# bah.
But then again, you used a 'bah.', so you weren't serious, either.
Is that an emacs command? M-x auto-bah on?
Really, Kieth's a good kid, he means well, but he's just been, well, how
do we put this... "out of the loop", as it were, for the past several...
months? years? Anyway, those kids at UCSD don't tend to travel very
far, so I wouldn't worry 'bout him appearing on your doorstep with a ring,
flowers, and a proposal.
This happens a lot among those with some real angst, that won't go away
for months, years... it becomes so regular that the only way one can cope
with it is to make jokes about it.
Xibo
Thomas A. Dennis
>yong-mi
>is it just me or are the freshmen getting worse every year?
It may be just you... In my freshman year ('82-83) the freshmen were pretty
bad. I went to a big state university (not this one, but similar) and had
an awful time adjusting, due to being utterly alienated by people whose
social life consisted of NOTHING (not exaggerating whatsoever) but going
to keggers and trying to pick up a fuckbuddy. The only clique that I felt
even slightly at home with was a group of dykes in my dorm; maybe I'm just a
closet dutch boy, but they were about ten times as interesting as anyone else
around--because of their alienation from college society, maybe?
Things have improved a bit, but I still get a twinge of nostalgia whenever I
see a picture of k.d. lang....
--
Tom Dennis | I looked into the abyss,
den...@alexia.uiuc.edu | and the abyss looked into me--
tadg...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | and we both winked.
Alex Bienek
>AS a similar example, should I actively attempt to conform to the Ken
>stereotype in order to be more successful with women? People tell me I should,
>... cut my hair, and dress in nice Woolworth shirts Not talk about blah blah blah.
> And I don't want to do that. If I impose certain screening
>mechanisms by being the way I want to be, at least I don't have to expend
>more effort filtering out people from my life that I am not really
>interested in having around.
>
> Meech
Yes but, this attitude can be taken too far, 'This is the way that I am, take
it or leave it'. If no two people are the same, then you are never going to
find an SO who is 100% compatible with you. If you are going to have a
relationship with someone then the very fact that you are having a relationship
has altered your way of life, ie to have a relationship you must change by
definition. The only question left therefore is how much you will change to
accommodate the relationship ?
Now I happen to believe that there are significant differences in the way
men and women think and therefore behavioral differences which must either
be accommodated or remain as points of friction or repulsion in the
relationship. Total unwillingness to change is likely to generate a great
deal of friction, on the otherhand, total subservience is clearly not
acceptable.
Also change may also be necessary in order to appreciate the interests of
the other person. I am carefully avoiding the use of exaples here for fear that
they would become the focus of attention rather than the principle.
I would never say conform to the Ken stereotype, but equally a dogged refusal
to change can be just as narrow minded.
Alex.
ObAngst: The temptation to give an example is overwhelming, but I mustn't.
picante
>In article <1992Oct23.1...@utkux1.utk.edu> kov...@martha.utcc.utk.edu (StMeechTheThwacked) writes:
>
>>AS a similar example, should I actively attempt to conform to the Ken
>>stereotype in order to be more successful with women? People tell me I should,
>>... cut my hair, and dress in nice Woolworth shirts Not talk about blah blah blah.
>> And I don't want to do that. If I impose certain screening
>>mechanisms by being the way I want to be, at least I don't have to expend
>>more effort filtering out people from my life that I am not really
>>interested in having around.
>>
>it or leave it'. If no two people are the same, then you are never going to
>find an SO who is 100% compatible with you. If you are going to have a
>relationship with someone then the very fact that you are having a relationship
>has altered your way of life, ie to have a relationship you must change by
>definition. The only question left therefore is how much you will change to
>accommodate the relationship ?
I quite agree. As you say, how far should one go? I feel sometimes
one is expected to go too far in compromising in this manner though.
When you feel that no one is at all interested in what you have to offer,
and when you feel that you are only permitted to associate with
them as long as you conform to their radically different convention, or risk
immediate ostracism, that is the problem. I am perfectly willing to accomodate
other people to a substantial degree, and I expect that other people will
treat me the same way. When they don't I become perplexed.
I wouldn't say that I doggedly resist altering my behaviour to be more
accomodating to other people. Not at all. I don't however want to be a
Ken. I would probably cut my hair, and wear a nice conservative grey suit,
with a white shirt, polished black shoes to a job interview an all that,
for example. Heck, I might even get rid of my stubble.
Meech
earthbound misfit, I
> AS a similar example, should I actively attempt to conform to the Ken
> stereotype in order to be more successful with women? People tell I should,
> all the time. I am lectured frequently how if I want to meet women here,
> I should cut my hair, and dress in nice Woolworth shirts (with buttons),
Yeah, tell me about it. (is it just me, or are all my current posts starting
with this? aarrgghh).
I'm growing my hair long, it's just getting to the point where I'm almost
happy with the way it looks (gee, it's only been *months*). Naturally lots
of friends and family tell me it should be a nice short haircut, but I
expect that so it's okay.
But I ran into a friend of mine who I hadn't seen for months. She's this
really cool woman, alternative type person who's very independent and
strong and blunt. Terrifying actually, I respect men who go out with her.
But I like her a lot, and when I ran into her about the 3rd thing she said
was "Craig, your hair looks terrible, you should have it about *this* long."
<picture fingers being held about 4mm apart).
Okay, so it's more that her personal preferences are that men look better
with very short hair, and it's not like she thinks it's too "alternative" or
"different" or anything (like, say, family members), but I didn't really
need this from someone who I thought would like it.
Yeah, hair angst. Flame away.
- k
(at least it's become
sufficiently long that I no
longer look like a
throwback to the late 70s)
Douglas Foster McBride
Hang in there, man. I've been growing my hair out since May, when a
woman I hadn't seen in a while told me that my overdue-for-a-haircut
hair looked "really good". (Ok, that wasn't the only reason; I mean,
I'm not dependent on what others think about me...) Anyway, it's
ponytail length now, it's me, and I love it.
Longhairs unite!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug McBride mcb...@owlnet.rice.edu
--
sine nomine
: Yes but, this attitude can be taken too far, 'This is the way that I
: am, take it or leave it'. If no two people are the same, then you are
: never going to find an SO who is 100% compatible with you. If you are
: going to have a relationship with someone then the very fact that you
: are having a relationship has altered your way of life, ie to have a
: relationship you must change by definition. The only question left
: therefore is how much you will change to accommodate the relationship?
but where's the line? what is it acceptable to ask your partner to
change, and what guarantee do you have that once said partner changes
it'll be enough? "okay, honey, i'd be just ecstatic if you'd lose x
number of pounds." what if the request is complied with and no ecstasy
follows? is it even fair to make demands like that in the first place?
is the idea that when we fall in love with someone we become blind to
their faults just a happy myth?
and how do you decide which partner needs to change? i think that the
person most insecure in the relationship will end up doing the changing,
and that could lead to subservience.
i guess my model is that when you love someone, you love everything,
even the things you don't like. and if your partner, knowing you don't
like certain things, chooses to change them, it's a gift.
: I would never say conform to the Ken stereotype, but equally a dogged
: refusal to change can be just as narrow minded.
but does one person have the right to *require* change in another? that
doesn't seem fair.
--
sine/deb
"i thought it was a dream, but it was a tin can" -- pere ubu
Jason Packer
>
>Hang in there, man. I've been growing my hair out since May, when a
>woman I hadn't seen in a while told me that my overdue-for-a-haircut
>hair looked "really good". (Ok, that wasn't the only reason; I mean,
>I'm not dependent on what others think about me...) Anyway, it's
>ponytail length now, it's me, and I love it.
>
>Longhairs unite!
On the flip side, I cut my hair for a woman who said she didn't like my pony,
and the relationship ended, and I am growing it back. DON'T do anything to
your hair that you can't undo for what a person thinks will look good, unless
it's you.
Jas
--
Jason W. Packer / Seeker of truth, justice, and great pizza
jpa...@willamette.edu / Writer of amative poetry / All around swell guy
nathan marsh
>but where's the line? what is it acceptable to ask your partner to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>change, and what guarantee do you have that once said partner changes
^^^^^^
This is a key shift from what the theme has been, "how much should *I*
change?" Since we all see the universe from the "I" perspective, the
two questions are very different. One is about our response to external
pressure. The other is is about an action that comes from within.
> [...]is it even fair to make demands like that in the first place?
>is the idea that when we fall in love with someone we become blind to
>their faults just a happy myth?
>
>and how do you decide which partner needs to change? i think that the
>person most insecure in the relationship will end up doing the changing,
>and that could lead to subservience.
There was something I saw on TV a while ago, maybe someone who is less
nauseated by TV can tell us what show.
Some guy was saying something to the effect: when we find something we love,
we want to posess it in some way. And then we start noticing all those little
things that annoy us, the way your SO does their hair or whatever, and we try
to change it. [my own comment on this...perhaps trying to change things is a
validation of our "posession" of the object/person.] And then the change
happens, and we realize that the thing we loved, it isn't there anymore.
>i guess my model is that when you love someone, you love everything,
>even the things you don't like. and if your partner, knowing you don't
>like certain things, chooses to change them, it's a gift.
This is very true. You love the things you don't like, because it's part of
him/her. Though I'm not sure about the gift part. Someone trying to become
what they think you want them to become can be messy.
>but does one person have the right to *require* change in another? that
>doesn't seem fair.
Unfortunately, this is how most people operate.
-A pimp in a seersucker suit sucked a toothpick and pointed his finger at me.
-nathan marsh
-st20...@brownvm.brown.edu
Stephen J. Okay
>In <1992Oct24....@wam.umd.edu> ki...@wam.umd.edu (Yong-Mi Kim) writes:
>
>
>>yong-mi
>>is it just me or are the freshmen getting worse every year?
>
>social life consisted of NOTHING (not exaggerating whatsoever) but going
>to keggers and trying to pick up a fuckbuddy. The only clique that I felt
>even slightly at home with was a group of dykes in my dorm; maybe I'm just a
>closet dutch boy, but they were about ten times as interesting as anyone else
>around--because of their alienation from college society, maybe?
Hey I can totally identify with this...I ended up hanging out with the weirdest
(well from a norm's point of view) collection of people, gay, straight,geeks,
gamers,punks, general social rejects, etc. just for this very same reason.
They were the only ones who were even remotely interesting or had anything
to say worthwhile. Everybody else on campus was in one of the frats or
career-oriented club. I tried to be open-minded about it,
but I just couldn't stand being around the alphas. Plus these people were really
practicing the things about being "open-minded" and "tolerant" that all the
alpha clubs were supposed to promote...
---Steve
--
Stephen Okay so...@mitre.org
"You see, I'm kind of this control freak who likes to create his own
personal hells before the real one can get to him. I like to beat hell
to hell so to speak".--Spalding Gray "Monster in a box"
Stephen J. Okay
>woman I hadn't seen in a while told me that my overdue-for-a-haircut
>hair looked "really good". (Ok, that wasn't the only reason; I mean,
>I'm not dependent on what others think about me...) Anyway, it's
>ponytail length now, it's me, and I love it.
Hey, I've been working on mine since last August and its just finally getting
down below the shoulders...I can't believe its taken me almost forever to
get it this long.
>Longhairs unite!
Yeah!!
ObAngst:Its gets curly when I exercise a lot so I can't HELP but look like
a '70s throwback when I get out of the pit after a show or something...Bah!
Gerson V Koenig
to "damn, it's out of control") I was paid $100 to get a mohawk. The money
is long since spent and it's just in the last few weeks that I've stopped
looking like I was recnetly in the army.
Gerson
Jeanne Leidy
In a previous article, so...@cyclone.mitre.org (Stephen J. Okay) says:
>I ended up hanging out with the weirdest
>(well from a norm's point of view) collection of people, gay, straight,geeks,
>gamers,punks, general social rejects, etc. just for this very same reason.
>They were the only ones who were even remotely interesting or had anything
>to say worthwhile. Everybody else on campus was in one of the frats or
>career-oriented club. I tried to be open-minded about it,
>but I just couldn't stand being around the alphas. Plus these people were really
>practicing the things about being "open-minded" and "tolerant" that all the
>alpha clubs were supposed to promote...
I don't know. I don't see too many on this newsgroup being too tolerant
towards the alphas. I personally feel that I am part alpha. It's not a
black and white issue.
-Jeanne
Flame away.
sine nomine
: This is a key shift from what the theme has been, "how much should *I*
: change?" Since we all see the universe from the "I" perspective, the
: two questions are very different. One is about our response to external
: pressure. The other is is about an action that comes from within.
true, but unless the change is entirely unrelated to the relationship,
"what should i change?" is intricately involved with "how much can my
partner expect me to change?" when you start remodeling your
personality you're going to have all kinds of reasons, and some of
them may be related to the displeasure expressed by an s.o.
it also occurs that expecting someone *never* to change is as bad as
demanding that they do.
: Some guy was saying something to the effect: when we find something we love,
:we want to posess it in some way. And then we start noticing all those little
: things that annoy us, the way your SO does their hair or whatever, and we try
: to change it. [my own comment on this...perhaps trying to change things is a
: validation of our "posession" of the object/person.] And then the change
: happens, and we realize that the thing we loved, it isn't there anymore.
although i like the possession metaphor, sometimes i think it's just a
matter of having a dream in your head, and meeting a person who
*almost* matches, and thinking "if he'd just grow his hair longer..."
"if she'd just lose weight..." you end up having to decide between the
dream and the reality. if you opt for the dream, you pressure your
partner to change or you get frustrated by the lack of change and
leave. if you opt for the reality, you accept your partner as-is and
change your attitudes about whatever it was that bugged you.
either way, one person or the other is forced to make adjustments. and
there doesn't seem to be a fair way to figure out who should do it.
: This is very true. You love the things you don't like, because it's part of
: him/her. Though I'm not sure about the gift part. Someone trying to become
: what they think you want them to become can be messy.
i'm thinking about the case in which one partner has made it very
clear that they dislike, say, their loved one's habit of eating
sardines before bed. cases where it's pretty obvious what's desired.
--
sine | deb
"if it's just a game then we'll hold hands just the same. so what?
we're bleedin' but we ain't cut. and i could purge my soul perhaps for
the imminent collapse, oh yeah, i'll tell you what we could do: you be
me for awhile and i'll be you." -- the replacements
Jeanne Leidy
In a previous article, ll...@pooh.cc.utexas.edu (sine nomine) says:
>it also occurs that expecting someone *never* to change is as bad as
>demanding that they do.
Excellent point. Wanted to make sure it got repeated.
-Jeanne
Jo Namio
years and years (eons) ago.... he was initially attracted because we were
opposites... he a wealthy republican, me a middle class liberal, left-
wing protesting in the streets democrat. But as years went by, that
initial joy in our differences became the tool by which he abused the
relationship and me, emotionally, verbally and finally physically.
Three years after the split (and the police) and now 6 months since
the divorce is FINALLY over (and such a pleasant one it was), I am just
now to the point where I can maybe trust anything a man says to me.
At least I don't look at them with narrowed eyes and envision them being
halled away by the police...
At least I don't duck in defense anymore if one of them walks too close...
that beaten-dog-duck.....
My theory of late has been to just be my outrageous self. Tell them all
the terrible and horrible shit right up front. My politics. My numerous cats.
My very precocious and politically correct 9 year old. My psychedelic VW.
If they aren't running for the hills by then... maybe it'll be ok. But
I really kinda doubt it....
Jo
Carl Morris
love and change. I thought I'd toss in my two cents...
There's a psychologist by the name of Glasser who wrote a book (among
others) called, "Control Theory". In it, he states that we as humans
are motivated by several basic needs. Two of these basic needs are:
o the need to belong
o the need for power
Glasser says that these two needs often come into conflict in our
relationships with loved ones.
We seek out loving relationships because we need the sense of belonging
they provide, but once our need to belong is being satisfied, we begin
to attempt to satisfy our need for power by trying to control the
person we are in the relationship with. This may manifest itself as
an attempt to change the other person in some way.
Both people in the relationship have both needs: the need to belong,
and the need for power. Successful relationships are those where the
two people involved have negotiated a mutually satisfactory way to
fulfill that need for power. What it may mean is being more aware of
your needs for power and working to meet those needs outside the context
of the relationship. A mutually satisfactory solution usually does not
involve one person dictating the behavior of the other.
>it also occurs that expecting someone *never* to change is as bad as
>demanding that they do.
I think this is an excellent observation. Demanding that a person do
anything at all, whether it is to change or not to change, is an attempt
to control their behavior. Most people will avoid outright anything they
perceive as an attempt to control them. If they decide to go along with
what you demanded, they will eventually come to resent the loss of control
this represents and rebel.
Relationships get started because people feel a need to belong. Good
relationships continue because both partners have found a way to meet
their need for power that does not make the other person feel as if they
are being controlled.
In a loving, caring relationship you cannot control the other person, you
have to let them be themself and love them for who they are. You may
certainly discuss your likes and dislikes with your mate. Someone who
cares about you will WANT to know what you like and dislike and what
your needs are. After you let your mate know you need something, they
have to weigh that against their own wants and needs and decide what to
do about it.
If your mate decides to give you what you want, it's because they want
to, not because they were manipulated into it. If they decide not to,
it's your turn to weigh things. You have two choices: live with it, or
try to persuade them to change their mind.
Sometimes further communication can lead your mate to a better understanding
of why what you're after is so important to you. Sometimes you may gain a
better understanding of why they don't feel they can give you what you
want. Sometimes a compromise that is acceptable to both sides can be
negotiated (note: the word "negotiation" implies that both partners have
EQUAL power in the relationship!).
If no compromise can be negotiated you are always free to continue to
push for what you want, but doing so will likely result in your losing
closeness with your mate. In extreme cases you will drive them away.
If no compromise can be negotiated, you have two choices: you either
live with the resolution, or get out of the relationship. Note that
I did NOT say "threaten to get out of the relationship". That would
constitute controlling behavior designed to manipulate someone into
doing something.
If you can't get what you want where you're at, as hard as it may seem,
you are always free to leave your current relationship and pursue what
you want elsewhere. If you can't get what you want anywhere, maybe you
should re-examine your wants to see if they're unrealistic or too selfish.
Whew... -- Carl
Jesper Lauridsen
>I'm growing my hair long, it's just getting to the point where I'm almost
>happy with the way it looks (gee, it's only been *months*). Naturally lots
>of friends and family tell me it should be a nice short haircut, but I
>expect that so it's okay.
I have not had my hair cut for quite a while now. The trouble is; I hate it!
I don't like having long hair - it looks awful and it sends out wrong signals.
The only reason I have it is because I hate getting it cut and I'm of the
eternal postponer type.
--
_______________________ _________________________________
| Jesper Lauridsen | Life is a spectator sport |
| rors...@daimi.aau.dk | I think, therefore I angst |
|_______________________|_________________________________|
Trevor Wolfgang Lohrbeer
In my last relationship (and how I hope things will develop in the one I seem
to be getting involved in now), we accepted that as human beings we each had
faults that we were trying to correct and we could work together to get rid of
those faults. So, for instance, if I was being stubborn and not admitting I was
wrong, she would tell me and I would step back to take a look at myself and if
I agreed, I'd change. The way I look at it, your entire life consists of getting
rid of faults (or, more poetically, trying to overcome your upbringing). The
people you have relationships with can help you in this and you can help them.
There is no ONE person required to change. You are both required to change.
After all, change is what life is all about.
- trevor lohrbeer
Jesper Lauridsen
>After all, change is what life is all about.
Is it? Changes can be to the worse.
sine nomine
: loh...@rs6205.ecs.rpi.edu (Trevor Wolfgang Lohrbeer) writes:
:
: >After all, change is what life is all about.
:
: Is it? Changes can be to the worse.
yeah, so? no one said life was about things being for the better all
the time. life is difficult. it's sposed to be. you get around it by
dealing; then you can feel a little better about it. if it were easy,
it'd be boring.
--
sine | deb
"...it's too late to run like hell. i guess i will tell you 'cause i
don't like to ask that this one be your last... make this last one
really the last." -- the replacements