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J.

unread,
Dec 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/18/98
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as i wait,
the thoughts of the past
return,
reminding me of the last time,
of the breathe that turned to dust.

not knowing where i am going,
only moving with a sense of what i want,
i move carelessly,
with no real known direction.

just hoping that when i see it,
i will know,
and i will be able to go on from there.

not wanting to control anything,
just letting the chaotic dice lead me where they may,
i can only have a strong sense of who i am
in this messy land.

yet, if i know who i am
then why do i seem so aimless,
why don't' i know where i am going.

knowing that time is passing me by,
ageing is going to be upon me so very soon,
i know i should act, get started,
but that would require a real plan.

my only plan is to live,
without ressentment, without bitterness,
without allowing the giant dice to smash me to pieces.

no more energy for any of that,
no desire to live like that.

in my day to day existence,
i am very clear about the lines,
but when the future factors in,
i am wandering aimlessly.

knowing that books will always be essential,
that teaching or taking care of the elderly are as essential,
i drift, knowing the end of this part of my life is soon upon me,
or at least the strings that keep me attached, held back.

remembering a time when everything was open,
there wasn't even a small piece of my life that was so focused,
i recall a stranger who touched me in so many ways....

letting that time pass me by,
thinking that my whole life is in front of me,
i am confronted with reality.

thinking of friends who wander so much more than myself,
i wish i could just get up and go,
go live with no real strings, no real direction,
instead of a direction that is directionless.

the day i put my faith into what i am doing,
put my whole being into it,
that is the day i am going to die.

the only real regret i have is that i gave up dancing for drugs.
how i loved dancing.....

at least i have the cosset exhibit to look forward to...

but that in itself might remind me of my aimlessness,
as i confront womanhood,
at least one dominate conception, that is.

me with a child,
now there's a thought.

me with a husband,
a further joke.

i haven't made any real decisions concerning either of the above,
but at this point in my life,
i couldn't imagine taking care of another person,
and until i can see men as being capable of truly taking care of
themselves,
a husband is out of the picture.

dynamic and self-sufficient.....arrogant and confident. aimless but
knowing what they want

these are my kinds of people...

agnostic but with a compassionate, caring twist
self-sufficient but caring
self knowing but open to all possibilities
confident and arrogant but full of doubt

anyone willing to take this ride we call life for everything it is.

that loves crashing and burning, being left on the floor miserable
that sucks every once of joy out of life
someone that stands up and says, No Fuck you.
someone who stands up and says, i care
someone that after a powerful experience is speechless,
unable to enter the real world

these are the kinds of people i like.

intelligent, with a dark sarcastic pessimistic twist, but with a sense
of hope and love, with a smile

destructive,but thrives off the joy of change

joyful, ready to do anything for the fun of it, for the experience

able to say, you know what, i am going to spend the day drinking, i am
going to spend the day playing pinball, i need to for my sanity

someone who confronts those that one's hates head on, with a smile, with
a strength that attempts to bridge the gap, but with honesty

someone who knows which forks to use at dinner, but in the same breath
can throw a very serious stab in another's direction.

fuck it, i like people that function well in all contexts..one minute in
a suit, the other with mud all over themselves

i like people that understand that there are contexts, and while you
should still be out there, you can play with that space and be yourself
with in.

someone who doesn't see rules as being constraining, but as being
guidelines, the rules of the game

i like someone who has the ability to suck it up and spit it out...

that when teased can throw it back harder than what they receive

what can i say, i like the dirt, i like the messiness........

this is life.....

as much as it might suck,
as much as i have no fucking clue where i am going..........

this is life.......

and all i can say it....

"everything's blue
in this world
the deepest shade of mushroom blue
all fuzzy
spilling out of my head"


and i love it..every wretched moment of it


Chris

unread,
Dec 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/19/98
to
In article <367AF61A...@uiuc.edu> jvar...@uiuc.edu "J." writes:

>
>
> as i wait,
> the thoughts of the past
> return,
> reminding me of the last time,
> of the breathe that turned to dust.
>
> not knowing where i am going,
> only moving with a sense of what i want,
> i move carelessly,
> with no real known direction.
>
> just hoping that when i see it,
> i will know,
> and i will be able to go on from there.

I recognise the feeling.

>
> not wanting to control anything,
> just letting the chaotic dice lead me where they may,
> i can only have a strong sense of who i am
> in this messy land.

Its things like that that make me glad that I don't believe that
I am at the mercy of a chaotic universe.

>
> yet, if i know who i am
> then why do i seem so aimless,
> why don't' i know where i am going.

Because you don't know what the rest of the universe is and what
constitutes a suitable destination or even a reliable milestone?

>
> knowing that time is passing me by,
> ageing is going to be upon me so very soon,
> i know i should act, get started,
> but that would require a real plan.

How can you plan your journey if you don't know where you are going?

>
> my only plan is to live,
> without ressentment, without bitterness,
> without allowing the giant dice to smash me to pieces.

Good on ya.


>
> no more energy for any of that,
> no desire to live like that.
>
> in my day to day existence,
> i am very clear about the lines,
> but when the future factors in,
> i am wandering aimlessly.

As is probably most of humanity.

>
> knowing that books will always be essential,
> that teaching or taking care of the elderly are as essential,
> i drift, knowing the end of this part of my life is soon upon me,
> or at least the strings that keep me attached, held back.
>
> remembering a time when everything was open,
> there wasn't even a small piece of my life that was so focused,
> i recall a stranger who touched me in so many ways....
>
> letting that time pass me by,
> thinking that my whole life is in front of me,
> i am confronted with reality.

Painful stuff, reality. Maybe that's why so many people spend so much
of their time trying to avoid it or distract themselves from it.

>
> thinking of friends who wander so much more than myself,
> i wish i could just get up and go,
> go live with no real strings, no real direction,
> instead of a direction that is directionless.
>
> the day i put my faith into what i am doing,
> put my whole being into it,
> that is the day i am going to die.

Hmmmm. I could echo that but I suspect the words mean something quite
different to me than they do to you.

>
> the only real regret i have is that i gave up dancing for drugs.
> how i loved dancing.....
>
> at least i have the cosset exhibit to look forward to...
>
> but that in itself might remind me of my aimlessness,
> as i confront womanhood,
> at least one dominate conception, that is.
>
> me with a child,
> now there's a thought.
>
> me with a husband,
> a further joke.

Family life is one of the most effective ways of trading in angst for
stress and distracting oneself from the void. I'm glad I don't have any.

>
> i haven't made any real decisions concerning either of the above,
> but at this point in my life,
> i couldn't imagine taking care of another person,
> and until i can see men as being capable of truly taking care of
> themselves,
> a husband is out of the picture.

You see men, collectively, as needing to be taken care of by women? Many
of us don't need or want that kind of care.

[ the kind of people you like, snipped ]

--
Chris


Tzadgiel

unread,
Dec 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/19/98
to

It's so big, and juicy . . . should I?

>as i wait,
>the thoughts of the past
>return,
>reminding me of the last time,
>of the breathe that turned to dust.

Yeah, new beginnings have a way of bringing unfinished
unmulched remnants back; crustily stuck to them you
understand what you'd been confined by only when you begin
to move forward and away, and peeling it off you the skin
goes with it. I know all about that. I've been remembering
too much. Compressed for a time because survival was more
important. We denied a lot; the truth returns with a
vengeance; and it's far too late, and therefore maybe a
bit too soon to look. The faces though soft and blurry
are still recognizable, yet; wait a bit and they melt
into anonymous tissue, become more easily disposable.

>not knowing where i am going,
>only moving with a sense of what i want,
>i move carelessly,
>with no real known direction.

You're doing the amoeboid thing yourself? I've decided
that it's dangerous. I've decided that I do in fact know
exactly what I'm doing. I've decided that it's an exercise
in foot-shooting. But maybe your demons like you better
than mine like me, lead you someplace you'd prefer to be
and not the merry road back to hell.

>just hoping that when i see it,
>i will know,
>and i will be able to go on from there.

I get the hint by the wirey sound of a trap springing.
Go on? No no. Now you're committed; it's entirely
different.

>not wanting to control anything,
>just letting the chaotic dice lead me where they may,
>i can only have a strong sense of who i am
>in this messy land.

That's something, isn't it. I wonder what it would be
like to be inside out, the solid thing surrounded by
fuzzy probability; I bet the world would look like a
playground, a place to prove things, a muddled mess
to dominate, an exercise in strategy. But I'm not
really here: I'm the sort of thing you people tilt
at. (Doesn't it suck that. . . ? but you probably
haven't noticed yet.) To me you all seem blinkered
and dogged for no reason other than the feel of the
world squishing between your toes, not even so
sophisticated as denial you don't even notice how
wrong it all is, exuberant as two years old, the
natural rightness of direct sensation: it must be so
strange. To never wonder what it's like inside the
rest of us, subjectively, for that not to matter, to
live entirely in your own skin. Envy, envy! Not to
be distracted by more refined considerations or the
implications that, taken to extremes, each cancel
you out and void desire and identity all the way to
their cold, vain bones.

>yet, if i know who i am
>then why do i seem so aimless,
>why don't' i know where i am going.

Two years old. Will and energy pouring out into the
unknown. No concept of irreparable yet, pleasure
in risk and accelerated learning, belief in your
own perfectability, faith in conquest and in the
rightness of your drives.

>knowing that time is passing me by,
>ageing is going to be upon me so very soon,
>i know i should act, get started,
>but that would require a real plan.

And the possibility of a failure whose ramifications
you can't ignore and a corresponding loss of innocence.
Better to stay half-born.

>my only plan is to live,
>without ressentment,

What is up with "ressentiment"? Is that French, some
philosphical affectation? Does it mean something
different than resentment?

>without bitterness,
>without allowing the giant dice to smash me to pieces.

You'll get involved. There will be factors that will
be out of your control: his differences, her instability,
the things that gnaw at the hearts of those you love:
eventually your investments will turn on you. It's the
secret dread of your kind. So if you put down roots,
put down roots you can protect. It's the reason you
prefer to be on your own, but you won't always be,
and that's your vulnerability.

>the day i put my faith into what i am doing,
>put my whole being into it,
>that is the day i am going to die.

That is just way fucked up. He says that kind of thing a
great deal also. What are you hiding from I wonder? Probably
nothing I'd want to know about; up and down the waves wash.

>at least i have the cosset exhibit to look forward to...

>but that in itself might remind me of my aimlessness,
>as i confront womanhood,
>at least one dominate conception, that is.

You both remind me of adolescents, in your faith and
nebulousness and glamour and reluctance. The world is
out there somewhere and you're getting ready to wade in,
and it's not going to break you like it has so many
others, dizzy theory, experiment, sedation, convenient
memory.

>me with a child,
>now there's a thought.

You don't have to do that just because the alarm goes off.

>me with a husband,
>a further joke.

Overall it's a ball of suck and not a happy target for
your pink "i love being consumed by life" smoke machine.

>i haven't made any real decisions concerning either of the above,
>but at this point in my life,
>i couldn't imagine taking care of another person,
>and until i can see men as being capable of truly taking care of
>themselves,
>a husband is out of the picture.

There you go. The whole "taking care" thing is a fat mess too.

>dynamic and self-sufficient.....arrogant and confident. aimless but
>knowing what they want

>these are my kinds of people...

Rick.

>agnostic but with a compassionate, caring twist
>self-sufficient but caring
>self knowing but open to all possibilities
>confident and arrogant but full of doubt

Full of doubt? Weird. I like the boys with the x-ray eyes.

>anyone willing to take this ride we call life for everything it is.

Everything, eh? Why do I doubt that.

>that loves crashing and burning, being left on the floor miserable
>that sucks every once of joy out of life
>someone that stands up and says, No Fuck you.
>someone who stands up and says, i care
>someone that after a powerful experience is speechless,
>unable to enter the real world

That sounds exactly like something he would say. I think you've
been converted, or contaminated, evil twins.

>these are the kinds of people i like.

>intelligent, with a dark sarcastic pessimistic twist, but with a sense
>of hope and love, with a smile

oh god, not the smile crap

>destructive,but thrives off the joy of change

heh

>joyful, ready to do anything for the fun of it, for the experience

>able to say, you know what, i am going to spend the day drinking, i am
>going to spend the day playing pinball, i need to for my sanity

Oh baby

>someone who confronts those that one's hates head on, with a smile, with
>a strength that attempts to bridge the gap, but with honesty

More smiling. I've seen that kind of smile and it's not a pretty
sight, honestly.

>someone who knows which forks to use at dinner, but in the same breath
>can throw a very serious stab in another's direction.

Nothing like a well-mannered asshole. Hee. I'm trying to picture what
all of this must be in contrast to. How about someone who bottle-feeds
kittens but can also take a bullet, or give one with equal panache?
Yeah that's it: suave, evil, grinning like an idiot.

>fuck it, i like people that function well in all contexts..one minute in
>a suit, the other with mud all over themselves

A lady in the living room, a whore in the bedroom!

>i like people that understand that there are contexts, and while you
>should still be out there, you can play with that space and be yourself
>with in.

I like mindless clones who compulsively edit their internal reality
to correspond with the expectations they've been seemlessly indoctrinated
with from birth, and don't even know it, and make claims like the above
in all seriousness unaware of the screaming irony of it all.

>someone who doesn't see rules as being constraining, but as being
>guidelines, the rules of the game

I like a manipulative bastard willing to sell his soul to "win",
no matter what the game du jour might be.

>i like someone who has the ability to suck it up and spit it out...

. . . all over the front of his dress. Me too.

>that when teased can throw it back harder than what they receive

I like the kind that stalk you vindictively for years and never
forget the smallest slight, and pay you back tenfold and only
hit harder when you beg for mercy (or so the evidence would
suggest).

>what can i say, i like the dirt, i like the messiness........

I like the blood, I like the interstitial spaces, I like the
freezing vacuum of space. Woo hoo!

Layo

I saw you last night at the gathering,
but could not take you openly in my arms,
so I put my lips next to your cheek,
pretending to talk privately.
- Rumi

Fred

unread,
Dec 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/30/98
to
Tzadgiel <tzad...@aol.com> gasped out...

>It's so big, and juicy . . . should I?

Suck the big dick of life!
Up with Penises!

>bit too soon to look. The faces though soft and blurry
>are still recognizable, yet; wait a bit and they melt
>into anonymous tissue, become more easily disposable.

I ate the cheese; the oscelot remains; I cannot stand in the corner
because I have no Elmer's. What mortal sin this, that badly written. Will no
one bring me the styrofoam of that damned priest?!
Oh, none of you understand anyways.

>You're doing the amoeboid thing yourself? I've decided
>that it's dangerous. I've decided that I do in fact know
>exactly what I'm doing.

Yep.

>I've decided that it's an exercise in foot-shooting.

{applause}

>But maybe your demons like you better than mine like me, lead you someplace
>you'd prefer to be and not the merry road back to hell.

Tis the eventual intent, not the length of the Claus.

>That's something, isn't it. I wonder what it would be
>like to be inside out, the solid thing surrounded by
>fuzzy probability; I bet the world would look like a
>playground, a place to prove things, a muddled mess
>to dominate, an exercise in strategy.

Evil! Pure EVIL!

>But I'm not really here: I'm the sort of thing you people tilt
>at.

I remain, as ever, seated.

>To me you all seem blinkered
>and dogged for no reason other than the feel of the
>world squishing between your toes, not even so
>sophisticated as denial you don't even notice how
>wrong it all is, exuberant as two years old, the
>natural rightness of direct sensation: it must be so
>strange.

'This is so weird! I'm not mental!'

>To never wonder what it's like inside the
>rest of us, subjectively, for that not to matter, to
>live entirely in your own skin. Envy, envy! Not to
>be distracted by more refined considerations or the
>implications that, taken to extremes, each cancel
>you out and void desire and identity all the way to
>their cold, vain bones.

Enh. They spiral into obfustication, yea verily, and doest thoust
bullsheet pilest higher.

>Two years old. Will and energy pouring out into the
>unknown. No concept of irreparable yet, pleasure
>in risk and accelerated learning, belief in your
>own perfectability, faith in conquest and in the
>rightness of your drives.

'Jeffty is five, he's always five.'

>And the possibility of a failure whose ramifications
>you can't ignore and a corresponding loss of innocence.
>Better to stay half-born.

Chicken.

>>the day i put my faith into what i am doing,
>>put my whole being into it,
>>that is the day i am going to die.
>That is just way fucked up. He says that kind of thing a
>great deal also. What are you hiding from I wonder? Probably
>nothing I'd want to know about; up and down the waves wash.

The purity of essence, the orgasms of Eve. We must protect out precious
bodily fluids from invaders, lest we become pinko freaks with bad haircuts and
silicon tits.

>You both remind me of adolescents, in your faith and
>nebulousness and glamour and reluctance. The world is
>out there somewhere and you're getting ready to wade in,
>and it's not going to break you like it has so many
>others, dizzy theory, experiment, sedation, convenient
>memory.

Kids today. Next thing you know they'll be _REPRODUCING_. And we know
where THAT leads.

>There you go. The whole "taking care" thing is a fat mess too.

Warning: Contains Hazardous Materials, Handle with Caution. Or not.

>>dynamic and self-sufficient.....arrogant and confident. aimless but
>>knowing what they want
>>these are my kinds of people...
>Rick.

Oh! Goofy! Now I get it, sorta.

>>agnostic but with a compassionate, caring twist
>>self-sufficient but caring
>>self knowing but open to all possibilities
>>confident and arrogant but full of doubt
>Full of doubt? Weird. I like the boys with the x-ray eyes.

Replicating the monsters of youth, again eh? Hint: it always plays the
same, and there aren't any cheat codes.

>>anyone willing to take this ride we call life for everything it is.
>Everything, eh? Why do I doubt that.

Suck the raw marrow of life dry and pretend someone believes it. It
always works for the old farts down at the VFW hall.

>>that loves crashing and burning, being left on the floor miserable
>>that sucks every once of joy out of life
>>someone that stands up and says, No Fuck you.
>>someone who stands up and says, i care
>>someone that after a powerful experience is speechless,
>>unable to enter the real world
>That sounds exactly like something he would say. I think you've
>been converted, or contaminated, evil twins.

Siamese aphasia?

>>someone who knows which forks to use at dinner, but in the same breath
>>can throw a very serious stab in another's direction.
>Nothing like a well-mannered asshole. Hee.

Both of them!

>I'm trying to picture what all of this must be in contrast to.

I'm a troll, folly roll, I'm a troll....

>How about someone who bottle-feeds kittens but can also take a bullet,
>or give one with equal panache?

Oh, pardon moi. Do you have any dead poupon?
Panache, huh?
We wuz discussing the end of the Full Metal Jacket were Joker shoots
the dying girl and I was informed: 'I don't understand what it would be like to
be in that situation.'
It's exactly like a car wreck, but it lasts longer.
Panache. Feh.

>Yeah that's it: suave,

I was suave once, but I lost all my vowels, so now I'm just sv.

>evil, grinning like an idiot.

EVIL! EVIL!

>>fuck it, i like people that function well in all contexts..one minute in
>>a suit, the other with mud all over themselves
>A lady in the living room, a whore in the bedroom!

But does she put out, goddammit, or is she just a fucking tease?
And...is she *CUTE*?

>>i like people that understand that there are contexts, and while you
>>should still be out there, you can play with that space and be yourself
>>with in.
>I like mindless clones who compulsively edit their internal reality
>to correspond with the expectations they've been seemlessly indoctrinated
>with from birth, and don't even know it, and make claims like the above
>in all seriousness unaware of the screaming irony of it all.

Liar.

>>someone who doesn't see rules as being constraining, but as being
>>guidelines, the rules of the game
>I like a manipulative bastard willing to sell his soul to "win",
>no matter what the game du jour might be.

Oh, the fading monsters of youth, whatever shall you do without them?
A humming box, without the hum, or the box, ofr that matter.

>>that when teased can throw it back harder than what they receive
>I like the kind that stalk you vindictively for years and never
>forget the smallest slight,

Well, you know, a certain short person is always blasting their
memories of the smallest perceived slights all over the, um, ether as it were,
so tit for tat and all that. Thou reapest what thou spew.

>and pay you back tenfold and only hit harder when you beg for mercy (or so
>the evidence would suggest).

Either I've never seen it, or you beg for mercy in a completely
non-begging sort of way. Oh, well.

>>what can i say, i like the dirt, i like the messiness........
>I like the blood, I like the interstitial spaces, I like the
>freezing vacuum of space. Woo hoo!

#mxr /* And the intestinal spaces? Are they in style this year? */

--
| L'audace! Toujours l'audace! moc.gnirpsdnim@rimim=xam 6 |
| Henceforthandforthwithlyyourfoundingducksdidoscillatecheesily |
| "Another bloody country gone West." |


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