Who Or What Killed The Dinosaurs?
John F. Winston
If you ask 10 gillion people who killed the dinosaurs they will
probably tell you that they didn't do it. Here is yet another
explanation of what did the dinosaurs in. I personally figure that
the temperature got a little colder and the dinosaurs couldn't gestate
or whatever you want to call it, throw in a polar shift, tidal waves,
mass shielding of the Sun by dust in the air, shiting of the mantel
of the Earth and few other things, but then who am I to give my lowly
opinion around all these people on Earth who know it all. To make
matters worse bacause I believe that we still have big live dinosaurs
down on some rivers in the the Congo and they really give them some
funny names. This information may be channeled but they may have
been talking to this person in person, so be careful.
.....................................................................
.....................................................................
From: "webh...@bellsouth.net" <webh...@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Cassiopaeans on the Earth Changes and Shift
From: S
http://w...@cassiopaea.org/cass/earth2.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please keep in mind while reading what is posted on the websites
linked above, as well as what the Cassiopaean comments, the following:
...........snip.................
The questions which relate to "Earth Changes" are scattered through-
out the more than 1,000 pages of text that have been delivered to
date...
Here is a selection of some of the most pertinent to the CAUSES and
RESULTS ... and, it is mostly through questions regarding the past
and cycles of history that we were given insight as to our future.
One of the earliest questions we asked was regarding the fate of the
dinosaurs.
Q: (L) What event took place at that time that caused the death of the
dinosaurs?
A: Comet impact.
Q: (L) Did a comet actually strike the earth?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Was it a large comet?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) How large?
A: The largest was 18 miles diameter, but no one was large enough for
event. 14 hit at that occasion.
Q: (L) Is there any regular periodicity or cycle to this comet business?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) What is the period?
A: 3600 years roughly.
Q: (L) Where are these cometary showers from?
A: Clusters in their own orbit.
Q: (L) Does this cluster of comets orbit around the sun?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Is the orbit perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic?
A: Yes and no.
Q: (L) Is this cluster of comets the remains of a planet?
A: No.
Q: (L) What body were the Sumerians talking about when they
described the Planet of the crossing or Nibiru?
A: Comets.
Q: (L) This body of comets you have talked about?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Does this cluster of comets appear to be a single body as
Sitchen describes?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Now, this cluster of comets, when was the last time it came
into the solar system?
A: 3582 yrs ago.
Q: (L) So, when is this cluster expected to hit the plane of the
ecliptic again?
A: 12 to 18 years. [This session was in 1994]
Q: (L) How long has this comet cluster been part of our solar system?
A: 890 million years.
Q: (L) What was the origin of this comet cluster? Was it originally
a large planet?
A: No. Your government already knows they're coming close again.
Q: (L) You said that the orbit is around the Sun. Where does it
enter the plane of the ecliptic?
A: Varies.
Q: (L) Does it enter between Mars and Jupiter, for example?
A: Sometimes.
Q: (L) Is the orbit perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic? Or is
it at an angle?
A: Not correct idea structure. Picture a spirograph.
Q: (L) Do the comets orbit around themselves. Do they have a sort
of axis?
A: No.
Q: (L) How many are in this cluster?
A: Varies.
Q: (L) Do they lose or pick any up from time to time?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) How big is the biggest one at this time?
A: 900 miles diameter. Spirograph.
Q: (L) According to my calculations, the comet cluster came by
8,788 B.C., is that correct?
A: Close enough.
Q: (L) Was there any historical cataclysm recorded in history
that we could relate to that passing?
A: No.
Q: (L) And this was part of the great flood that occurred 12,388
B.C., is that correct?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Now, you have said that Venus was drawn into the solar
system by the gravitational pull of the cluster of comets?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Where did Venus get all its gases and clouds and so forth?
What was its origin? Where did it get all this stuff?
A: Collected during fiery, friction filled journey and space matter
in general.
Q: (L) Where was Venus originally from?
A: Ancient wanderer from near Arcturus.
Q: (L) Now, I have compared certain passages of Revelations to
the work of Immanuel Velikovsky, were those sections accurate
in what they describe?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Is there going to be massive disruption on the planet and
maybe a lot of people transitioning out of the body simultaneously
because of the interaction of this cluster of comets and the earth.
A: Close.
Q: Now, when you talk about the comet cluster, as you have on
many occasions, the technical definition of a comet is that it is a
chunk of ice. Is this the case with the comets in this cluster?
A: And other substances, primarily iridium cores.
[...]
Q: (T) Can we ask one more quick question? NASA has announced
that the space telescope, Hubble, has detected clusters of comets,
is this, in effect, the beginning of the government's of the world
preparing the people for what is to come?
A: It certainly is a possibility, but, again, you are accessing a
very touchy area. Too much knowledge for you to gather in this
particular area would not be beneficial to you.
Q: There is a rumor going around that a large object is coming
our way, that is a gigantic, intelligently controlled space craft,
loaded with Lizzies. Could you comment on this please?
A: Comet cluster. Sitchen believes it is a "planet."
Q: In terms of this comet cluster, how many bodies are in this
cluster as a discrete unit?
A: Variable.
Q: What is the ETA?
A: Open.
Q: Why is it open? Why can't we look at it and determine the
factors, the direction, trajectory, velocity...
A: If you could, you would be interrupted in your learning cycle.
Q: What exactly does THAT mean? (F) Because you would never
do anything else because all you would think about is the day the
comet is coming!
[...]
Q: Is the government planning to stage an invasion by aliens to
cause the populace of the world to go into such a fear state that
they will accept total control and domination?
A: Open. But if so, will "flop".
Q: Why?
A: Many reasons: 1. Visual effects will be inadequate and will have
"glitches". 2. Real invasion may take place first. 3. Other events
may intercede.
Q: Such as what?
A: Earth changes.
Q: Am I correct in assuming that some of these hot-shot, big-wig
guys in the government who have plans for taking over the whole
world and making everything all happy and hunky-dory with them
in charge, are just simply not in synch with the fact that there are
some definite earth changes on the agenda? Are they missing
something here?
A: Close. They are aware but in denial.
Q: Are these earth changes going to occur prior to the arrival of
the cometary cluster?
A: No. But "time" frame is, as of yet, undetermined.
[...]
A: Now would be a good "time" for you folks to begin to reexamine
some of the extremely popular "Earth Changes" prophecies. Why,
you ask. Because, remember, you are third density beings, so real
prophecies are being presented to you in terms you will understand,
I.E. physical realm, I.E. Earth changes. This "may" be symbolism.
Would most students of the subject understand if prophecies were
told directly in fourth density terms?
Q: (L) Is this comparable to my idea about dream symbolism. For
example, the dream I had about the curling cloud which I saw in a
distance and knew it was death dealing and I interpreted it to be a
tornado, but it was, in fact, a dream of the Challenger disaster. I
understood it to be a tornado, but in fact, what I saw was what I got,
a death dealing force in the sky, a vortex, in the distance. I guess
my dream was a fourth density representation but I tried to interpret
it in terms I was familiar with. Is this what you mean?
A: Close. But it is easy for most to get bogged down by
interpreting prophecies in literal terms.
Q: (L) In terms of these Earth Changes, Edgar Cayce is one of the
most famous prognosticators of recent note, a large number of the
prophecies he made seemingly were erroneous in terms of their
fulfillment. For example, he prophesied that Atlantis would rise in
1969, but it did not though certain structures were discovered off
the coast of Bimini which are thought by many to be remnants of
Atlantis. These did, apparently, emerge from the sand at that time.
A: Example of one form of symbolism.
Q: (L) And the symbolism was that one is reading the event from
3rd density into sixth density terms and then transmitting it back
into 3rd, and while the ideation was correct, the exact specifics, in
3rd density terms, were slightly askew. Is that what we are dealing
with here?
A: 99.9 per cent would not understand that concept. Most are
always looking for literal translations of dates
A: Analogy is novice who attends art gallery, looks at abstract
painting and says "I don't get it."
Q: (L) Well, let's not denigrate literal translations or at least
attempts to get things into literal terms. I like realistic art work. I
am a realist in my art preferences. I want trees to look like trees
and people to have only two arms and legs. Therefore, I also like
some literalness in my prognostications.
A: Some is okay, but, beware or else "California falls into the
ocean" will always be interpreted as California falling into the ocean.
Q: (General uproar) (F) Wait a minute, what was the question? (L)
I just said I liked literalness in my prophecies. (F) Oh, I know what
they are saying. People believe that California is just going to go
splat and that Phoenix is going to be on the seacoast, never mind
that it's at 1800 feet elevation, it's just going to drop down to sea
level, or the sea level is going to rise, but it's not going to affect
Virginia Beach even though that's at sea level. I mean... somehow
Phoenix is just going to drop down and none of the buildings are
going to be damaged, even though its going to fall 1800 feet... (T)
Slowly. It's going to settle. (F) Slowly? It would have to be so
slowly it's unbelievable how slowly it would have to be. (T) It's
been settling for the last five million years, we've got a ways to go
in the next year and a half! (F) Right! That's my point. (T) In other
words, when people like Scallion and Sun Bear and others say
California is going to fall into the ocean, they are not saying that
the whole state, right along the border is going to fall into the
ocean, they are using the term California to indicate that the ocean
ledge along the fault line has a probability of breaking off and
sinking on the water side, because it is a major fracture. We
understand that that is not literal. Are you telling us that there is
more involved here as far as the way we are hearing what these
predictions say?
A: Yes.
Part 1.
John Winston. john...@mlode.com
ghos...@my-deja.com
There is evidence worldwide of a sedimentary layer that was caused by a
global flood. If this is true then all of the layering beneath this
layer got all mixed-up in the cataclysm and you cannot use that layering
below this layer to date anything. Below this layer, archeologists are
just guessing about dates. A sabre toothed tiger print was found inside
of a dinosaur print in the same rock and a human foot print was found
in the same rock as a dinosaur print. This tends to show that dinosaurs
and sabre toothed tigers existed at the same time as men and
evolutionary dating is seriously wrong. Polystrate fossils such as tree
trunks found embeded in coal shows that a cataclysm like a flood did
happen and it mixed up the layers. If the dinosaurs were killed in
Noah's flood, it would explain why aquatic dinosaurs like the Loch Ness
monster and Ogo Pogo still survived. Land dinosaurs were too big to
take aboard the ark; they drowned.
If a meteor had killed them as some say, then a large number of charred
and burned dinosaur bones would have been found. This was not found.
In article <Pine.BSF.3.96.99112...@shell.mlode.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Roger
--
Roger
"Nevermind the Cherubim and the Flaming Sword,
eat as much fruit as you can."
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> I am inclined to believe that the dinosaurs were killed in Noah's flood.
> There is evidence worldwide of a sedimentary layer that was caused by a
> global flood.
global !? the books I've read point to many evidences of a local (big,
horrible ..., but still local !) floods. A flood that covered the whole
Earth !? About recent findings read:-----------------
*New evidence of ancient flood. Modern science meets biblical legend deep in
the Black Sea.
The biblical story of Noah and the great flood inspired this engraving by
Gustave Dore, titled "Dove Sent Forth From the Ark." Now scientists say they
have found new evidence for a catastrophic flood thousands of years ago.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/336589.asp
-------------------
> If this is true then all of the layering beneath this
> layer got all mixed-up in the cataclysm and you cannot use that layering
> below this layer to date anything. Below this layer, archeologists are
> just guessing about dates. A sabre toothed tiger print was found inside
> of a dinosaur print in the same rock and a human foot print was found
> in the same rock as a dinosaur print. This tends to show that dinosaurs
> and sabre toothed tigers existed at the same time as men
Is this wrong?
In some books about UFOs is described a case in Peru that a local man (and
also a local museum I think) has a collection of more than 100,000 stones
with pictures on them. On some of the pictures there is dinosaurs like
creatures and people together. I have to admit though that no photos were
shown in the book.
However there is another case of strange pictures showing strange animals
and people ... in Egypt. The picture shows two giant animals with long necks
and people leading them on a leash. Also much smaller creatures with human
like heads and hands but animal bodies, also lead on leash and one of the
'animals' is sucking its finger ...
These pictures are quite 'natural' and very different from the ordinary
pictures showing sphinxes/dragons etc. ...
On the other hand I watched on Discovery about a giant bear in North
America. It existed about 10,000 years ago, I think, and during its
existence there is no human bones, traces ... although that Asia and North
America were linked during this time and humans theoretically could have
moved into North America. The question arises:
Is early human existence possible if such large predators exists too?
> and
> evolutionary dating is seriously wrong.
evolutionary dating is not based only on 'reading' layers
> Polystrate fossils such as tree
> trunks found embeded in coal shows that a cataclysm like a flood did
> happen and it mixed up the layers. If the dinosaurs were killed in
> Noah's flood, it would explain why aquatic dinosaurs like the Loch Ness
> monster and Ogo Pogo still survived.
there is no proof of that. More recent finding suggests that the lakes
(probably excluding Loch Ness) could not support large group of large
animals.
> Land dinosaurs were too big to
> take aboard the ark;
let's suppose that the story of Noah is true. If you were Noah would you
take dinosaurs aboard? I don't think so, but eggs ... yes ... if you can
take them :-)
> they drowned.
> If a meteor had killed them as some say, then a large number of charred
> and burned dinosaur bones would have been found. This was not found.
'not found' does not prove that it doesn't exist
Robert ASF.
snip
> *New evidence of ancient flood. Modern science meets biblical legend deep in
> the Black Sea.
> The biblical story of Noah and the great flood inspired this engraving by
> Gustave Dore, titled "Dove Sent Forth From the Ark." Now scientists say they
> have found new evidence for a catastrophic flood thousands of years ago.
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/336589.asp
snip
In the Bible, we have the story of Noah's flood. G*d's wraith on
the Earth for its sins. It killed all the people who lived. Noah who felt
that there was danger built a boat and sailed to safety near today's
Turkey.
Another story is the Tower of Babble. Where the people built a
mighty tower and all spoke the same language. G*D again should his wraith
by destroying that tower and changing the languages of all such that they
could not speak to one another.
Stories? Myth? How about truth?
We know that the stories found in Genesis of the flood can also be
found in China, and the Epic of Gilgamesh. What if these stories had one
common source? That being a central location where the tribes who once
spoke similar languages were forced out by a flood, and as they scattered
their language changed.
In the latest book I have read, called Noah's Flood by William
Ryan and Walter Pitman, they set out to scientifically prove the origin of
the flood to the Black sea valley. Using a multi disciplinary approach,
they trace the root of the flood to the Mediterranean Sea crashing in to
the fertile valley. (The Garden of Eden?)
The discusses the divergence of languages and the scattering of
people to the four corners of the world with the same story of their
flood.
The root of the flood, the black Sea valley is lower than the rest
of the Ocean levels, also allowed it to be a lush fertile area when the
rest of the world was locked into the Ice age. Perhaps this was the Garden
of Eden we were thrown out of?
It would also explain any number of mysteries about the ancients.
Such as the Egyptian and Sumerian civilizations were seeming not developed
where they were found but appear with a complete culture in-themselves.
The book is extremely interesting and is easy to understand. No
prior expertise is needed to follow their step by step story telling of
how they discovered this, They show the scientific method at work with
other disciplines adding more proof as they build their thesis.
It just go to show you that while the religious nature of the
bible is open to challenge, its historical and scientific value is
excellent!
Just Thought I Should Mention It
Lou Minatti™
>
> I am inclined to believe that the dinosaurs were killed in Noah's flood.
You can believe anything you want, but human beings did not coexist with
dinosaurs.
--
Happy Holidays from SpOOk Central!
http://www.watchingyou.com
"I am the James Bond of astrologers." - Edmond Heinz Wollmann
Jeliazko Batchvarov
discovered Troya believing in Omir's book ...
But how about adding more pieces to the puzzle? For example:
1. I watched on Discovery about one theory that the alignment of the great
pyramids in Gisa and one temple in Cambodia suggest that they (the pyramids and
the temple) are built in about 10,500BC
2. In the same programme was discussed the disproportion of the Sphinx
(head/body). They said that it suggest that initially it was a lion, and probably
the Egyptians only changed the shape of the head ... This also lead to 10,500 BC
...
3. In some Indian holy books (Mahabharata, Wedi ...) (sorry for any misspelled
words in my letter - the spell checker doesn't know them all :-) ) are described
battles in heavens, something like nuclear explosions, flying devices ...
4. In South America - some ancient cities currently at very high altitude have
remains of shells and sea animals, suggesting that they have been on the ocean
shore not very long time ago
5. The discovery of coal in Antarktida show that it was a green continent.
6. ...
probably you or somebody else can add more such facts. (no channelled info
please!:-) all this is quite confusing already)
My point is - this doesn't fit to year 7,500 and the chronology in the Bible,
neither the Black Sea plays any role in the picture ...
The only way to build a nice looking theory is to disregard some of the facts.
In my opinion the Bible could be taken seriously to some extent, but to think that
it holds all answers ... I don't think so.
--------------------------------
ghos...@my-deja.com
> 1. I watched on Discovery about one theory that the alignment of the
great
> pyramids in Gisa and one temple in Cambodia suggest that they (the
pyramids and
> the temple) are built in about 10,500BC
> 2. In the same programme was discussed the disproportion of the Sphinx
> (head/body). They said that it suggest that initially it was a lion,
and probably
> the Egyptians only changed the shape of the head ... This also lead to
10,500 BC
In the first place the methods of dating past objects have a sizeable
margin of error. If there really was a flood, that mixed-up the earth
layers and that makes dating past objects even harder. The carbon 14
dating process is even questionable; a living mollusk was carbon dated
at thousands of years old, this indicates that we don't understand
everything about carbon 14. Much of the ages that they put on ancient
objects are guesswork with a sizeable margin of error. I saw one theory
that put the age of the sphinx at around 12,000 years. The Mahabharata
stories come from around 15,000 years, they say. The geaneology in the
Bible is accurate as written. From genesis until around the time of
Abraham's grandfather, people lived much longer than now. (Noah was 500
years old before he started to build the ark, Adam and Methusela lived
for over 900 years) Since 1969 men have been megadosing on vitamins and
their are people in the world today that are 20 years younger than they
are supposed to be. The people in the book of Genesis may have been
processing vitamins from foods to extend their life spans; this seems to
have been a forgotten technology rediscovered by man around 1900.
These ancient advanced civilizations that built stone buildings with
stones weighing 200 tons or more did have a technology unknown to us; we
could not build those buildings today.
Since men lived much longer back then, and the final age of everyone
mentioned in the geneology of the Bible is not written, the Bible
geneology could really extend back much further than 7,500 years.
These ancient race memories about ancient advanced civilizations like
Atlantis being destroyed when it sunk are probably memories of Noah's
flood which were passed down to many people in different areas and the
stories got changed in time as they were retold. These ancient
civilizations existed before Noah's flood and were destroyed in Noah's
flood, because they were wicked. Hebrew legends say that the people
before Noah's flood knew secrets of Angel technology [extraterrestrial
technology]. Plato's story of Atlantis says that they processed
extracts from fruits which sounds like vitamins. Ancient texts from
Egypt say that the great stones to build the pyramids were levitated by
the Priests of On and made to fly the distance of a bow shot. (Extra
terrestrial technology can levitate UFOs and probably stones too.)
Cities near Pakistan were found with clay and stones melted with the
heat of a thermonuclear blast which tends to verify the stories of wars
of flying aircraft and terrible weapons in the ancient Indian texts.
The Bible is true as written, but the problems come when people
misinterpret what they read in it.
> 3. In some Indian holy books (Mahabharata, Wedi ...) (sorry for any
misspelled
> words in my letter - the spell checker doesn't know them all :-) ) are
described
> battles in heavens, something like nuclear explosions, flying devices
...
> 4. In South America - some ancient cities currently at very high
altitude have
> remains of shells and sea animals, suggesting that they have been on
the ocean
> shore not very long time ago
>
> probably you or somebody else can add more such facts. (no channelled
info
> please!:-) all this is quite confusing already)
>
> My point is - this doesn't fit to year 7,500 and the chronology in the
Bible,
> neither the Black Sea plays any role in the picture ...
>Again, the Bible geneology probably goes back much further than this.
> The only way to build a nice looking theory is to disregard some of
the facts.
>
> In my opinion the Bible could be taken seriously to some extent, but
to think that
> it holds all answers ... I don't think so.
>
> --------------------------------
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
ghos...@my-deja.com
loumi...@budweiser.com wrote:
> ghos...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > I am inclined to believe that the dinosaurs were killed in Noah's
flood.
>
with
> dinosaurs.
>
or I. But the earth layer that recorded a dinosaur footprint and a man
footprint in the same layer and then hardened into rock, was there at
the time. This was found in a riverbed in Texas.
> Happy Holidays from SpOOk Central!
> http://www.watchingyou.com
> "I am the James Bond of astrologers." - Edmond Heinz Wollmann
>
twi...@worldnet.att.net
<snipo>
> Another story is the Tower of Babble.
It changed its name to the internet.
<snipo>
twi...@worldnet.att.net
>ghos...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>> I am inclined to believe that the dinosaurs were killed in Noah's flood.
>
>You can believe anything you want, but human beings did not coexist with
>dinosaurs.
>
What?
You mean that the cartoon strip Alley Oop wasn't a
documentary?
Curse You, Minatti, for destroying our illusions!
*SOB*
Richard Vizzutti
>ghos...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>> I am inclined to believe that the dinosaurs were killed in Noah's flood.
>
>You can believe anything you want, but human beings did not coexist with
>dinosaurs.
>
Do the research fella. There is solid evidence.
-Rick-
--
-For PreTrib Rapturists-
http://www.angelfire.com/or/jesus/
-A good resource center-
Lou Minatti™
>
> In article <383CBE...@budweiser.com>, loumi...@budweiser.com wrote:
>
> >ghos...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >>
> >
> >dinosaurs.
> >
>
> Do the research fella. There is solid evidence.
If you think The Flintstones was a fact-based program, yes, dinosaurs
coexisted with humans.
--
Lou Minatti™
>
> In article <383CBE...@budweiser.com>,
> loumi...@budweiser.com wrote:
> > ghos...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > >
> flood.
> >
> with
> > dinosaurs.
> >
> or I. But the earth layer that recorded a dinosaur footprint and a man
> footprint in the same layer and then hardened into rock, was there at
> the time. This was found in a riverbed in Texas.
Oy veh, not this crap again.
Keith Littleton
ghost7584 <ghos...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>I am inclined to believe that the dinosaurs were killed
>in Noah's flood. There is evidence worldwide of a
>sedimentary layer that was caused by a global flood.
The problem is that when this so-called "evidence" is
closely examined, a person finds that it consists of
of a bizarre mixture of misrepresentations and
misinformation of real observations. The fact of the
matter is that this "layer" exists only in the fertile
imagination of Young Earth creationists. In addition,
the Young Earth creationists who write about Noah's
flood simply ignore any of a bunch of data that refute
it having occurred and having deposited the sedimentary
strata that Young Earth creationists and other people
claim it did. Some of this data and the innumerable
problems with the claims for a global flood are
discussed at:
"Problems with a Global Flood, Second Edition, by Mark Isaak"
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
There are a number of articles about the so-called global
flood at:
"Flood Geology"
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-flood.html
"The Flood Page: Articles on Noah's Flood"
http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/fld.htm
>If this is true then all of the layering beneath this
>layer got all mixed-up in the cataclysm and you cannot
>use that layering below this layer to date anything.
>Below this layer, archeologists are just guessing about
>dates.
This is patently untrue. Sedimentary rocks around the
world are well-stratified in a predictable manner. They
are not "mix-up" as is incorrectly claimed above. For
some examples of the regular and predictable layering of
strata and sequence of fossils found in sedimentary
strata a person can go to:
"The Geologic Column and Its Implications to the Flood"
by Glenn R. Morton
http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/geo.htm
Strata are not all mixed up. The "geologic column," which
was formulated by creationists decades before Darwin
published anything, is for real. The layers are not
mix-up and can be reliably dated. For some examples,
go to:
"Radiometric Dating and the Geological Time Scale"
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dating.html
"Geochronology kata John Woodmorappe"
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/woodmorappe-geochronology.html
"Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective"
http://asa.calvin.edu/ASA/resources/Wiens.html
"A Radiometric Dating Resource List"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/8851/radiometric.html
"Geological Time Scale"
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/timescale.html
>A sabre toothed tiger print was found inside of a dinosaur
>print in the same rock and a human foot print was found
>in the same rock as a dinosaur print. This tends to show
>that dinosaurs and sabre toothed tigers existed at the same
>time as men and evolutionary dating is seriously wrong.
This sounds like a rehash of the various "mantrack" and
out-of-place footprint claims made by Young Earth
creationists for people stepping on trilobites, human
and other footprints found by dinosaur prints, and so
forth. So far, none of these have been substantiated
by independent investigators.
For some examples, go see:
Kuban, G. J. (1986) The Paluxy Dinosaur/"Man Track"
Controversy. Origins Research, Vol. 9, No. 1, Spring/Summer
1986, pp. 2-10. and
http://members.aol.com/Paluxy2/paluxy.htm
Kuban, G. J. (1992) Do Human Tracks Occur in the Kayenta
of Arizona? Origins Research, 1992, Vol.14, No. 2, pp. 7,
12, 16. and
http://members.aol.com/Paluxy2/arizon.htm
"The "Meister Print": An Alleged Human Sandal Print from Utah"
http://members.aol.com/paluxy2/meister.htm
>Polystrate fossils such as tree trunks found embeded in
>coal shows that a cataclysm like a flood did happen and
The "compelling" case made for polystrate fossils being
evidence for a global flood is fabricated by overlooking
observations which contradict this claim. This is all
explained in detail in a number of web pages which explain
how polystrate fossils can form. Some of these web pages are:
http://www.geo.ucalgary.ca/~macrae/talk_origins.html ,
http://www.geo.ucalgary.ca/~macrae/t_origins/polystrate_trees.html ,
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate.html ,
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate/trees.html ,
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate/polystrate_trees.html ,
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate/yellowstone.html ,
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate/dawson_tree2.html , and
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate/coal.html .
The fact of the matter is that the polystrate tree fossils
at Joggins and elsewhere exhibit characters that **refute**
their origin for a global flood. They are in fact evidence
*against* a global flood having formed them.
>it mixed up the layers.
Again, these layers are *not* mix-up as ghost7584
incorrectly claims. This is discussed in detail at:
"The Geologic Column and Its Implications to the Flood"
by Glenn R. Morton
http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/geo.htm
"Radiometric Dating and the Geological Time Scale"
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dating.html
>If the dinosaurs were killed in Noah's flood, it would
>explain why aquatic dinosaurs like the Loch Ness
>monster and Ogo Pogo still survived. Land dinosaurs
>were too big to take aboard the ark; they drowned.
As far as I know, nobody has published any indisputable
proof that legends about the Loch Ness and Ogo Pogo
monsters have any truth to them. Also, the evidence that
they are aquatic dinosaurs is also lacking. (Technically
speaking they weren't aquatic dinosaurs, but rather marine
reptiles.) These claims sound like the falsehoods that
Young Earth creationists promote about the plesiosaur
carcass accidentally netted by a Japanese trawler near
New Zealand in 1977. For more information, go see:
Kuban, G. J., (1997) Sea-monster or Shark? An Analysis
of a Supposed Plesiosaur Carcass Netted in 1977 Reports
of the National Center for Science Education , May/June
1997, Vol. 17, No. 3, pp. 16-28.
This article can be found on-line at:
http://members.aol.com/paluxy2/plesios.htm
>If a meteor had killed them as some say, then a large
>number of charred and burned dinosaur bones would have
>been found. This was not found.
This is not true. First, only a minority of the dinosaurs
will be directly "charred" by the blast. The vast majority
will be killed by other processes, e.g. tsunamis, "nuclear
winter," and other drastic environmental changes leading to
a total collapse of the ecosystems that supported them. It
will be virtually impossible to tell what killed these
dinosaurs. Also, the impact appears to have created an
intense acid rain, which led to the leaching and
acidification of soils and sediments that would made the
preservation of the bone related to the impact much more
unlikely. The acid rain is discussed in:
Retallack, G.J. (1996) Acid trauma at the Cretaceous-
Tertiary boundary in eastern Montana. GSA Today vol. 6,
no. 5, pp. 1-5.
This citation can be found on-line at:
http://www.geosociety.org/pubs/gsatoday/gsat9605.htm
However, an unique spike of polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons (PAH) created by the burning of wood has
been found to coincide with the iridium anomaly
associated with the impact at Chixalube (Arinobu et
al. 1999). The concentrated occurrence of PAH, soot,
and charcoal at this boundary suggests that forests burned
world-wide at this time (Wolbach et al. 1990). An abrupt
change in the ratios of stable isotopes of carbon that
coincides with the PAHs, soot, and charcoal indicates that
18 to 24 percent of the world's biomass went up in flames
as a result of the impact (Arinobu et al. 1999).
Citations:
Arinobo, T., Ishiwatari, R., Kaiho, K., and Lamolda,
M. A. (1999) Spike of pyrosynthetic polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons associated with an abrupt decrease in delta
13C of a terrestrial biomarker ay the Cretaceous-Tertiary
boundary at Caravaca, Spain. Geology. vol. 27, no. 8,
pp. 723-726.
Wolbach, W. S., Gilmour, I., and Anders, E. (1990) Major
wildfires at the K-T boundary, in V. L. Sharpton, and
P. D. Ward, eds., pp. 391-400, Global Catastrophes in
Earth History. Geological Society of America special
Paper no. 247. Geological Society of America, Boulder,
Colorado.
Yours,
Keith Littleton
litt...@vnet.net
New Orleans, LA
"Another set of fool professors. Just intellectuals,
and you know what an intellectual is, don't you?
Someone educated beyond his intelligence."
-- Representative Henry Hyde speaking to the
U.S. Senate about evidence to be submitted
for Clinton's defense.
Keith Littleton
: In article <383CBE...@budweiser.com>,
: loumi...@budweiser.com wrote:
:>The scientists who say this, did not live back then and neither did you
: or I. But the earth layer that recorded a dinosaur footprint and a man
: footprint in the same layer and then hardened into rock, was there at
: the time. This was found in a riverbed in Texas.
I suggest that you go look at:
1. The Paluxy Dinosaur/"Man Track" Controversy
http://members.aol.com/paluxy2/paluxy.htm
2. A Summary of the Paluxy "Man Track" Controversy
http://members.aol.com/Paluxy2/mantrack.htm
3. The Taylor Site "Man Tracks"
http://members.aol.com/paluxy2/tsite.htm
4. Recommended Further Reading on Paluxy Controversy
http://members.aol.com/paluxy2/moreref.htm
A few of the many references about the Paluxy tracks are:
Cole, John R. and Laurie R. Godfrey (eds.) (1985) The Paluxy
River Footprint Mystery -- Solved. Creation/Evolution
issue 5, no. 1. National Center for Science Education,
Berkeley, California. http://WWW.NatCenSciEd.org/
Cole, John R., and Pia Nicolini (1984) The Case of the Texas
Footprints. videotape. ISHI Films, P.O. Box 2367, Philadelphia,
Pennsylvania 19103.
Hastings, Ronnie J. (1988) The Rise and Fall of the Paluxy
Mantracks. Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith.
vol. 40, no. 3, pp. 144-155.
Kuban, Glen J. (1986a) The Taylor Site 'Man tracks'.
Origins Research. vol. 9, no. 1, pp. 7-10.
Kuban, Glen J. (1986b) Review of the ICR Impact Article
151. Origins Research. vol. 9, no. 1, pp. 11-13.
Kuban, Glen J. (1989) Color Distinctions and Other Curious
Features of Dinosaurs Tracks Near Glen Rose, Texas.
Dinosaur Tracks and Traces. D. D. Gillette and M. G.
Lockley, eds. Cambridge University Press, New York,
pp. 427-440.
Milne, David H. and Steven D. Schafersman (1983)
Dinosaur Tracks, Erosion Marks and Midnight Chisel
Work (But No Human Footprints) in The Cretaceous
Limestone of the Paluxy River Bed, Texas. Journal of
Geological Education. vol. 31, no. 2, pp. 111-123.
Keywords: Paluxy River, Dinosaur tracks, Fossil Footprints,
Glen Rose, Creationism, Ichnology.
Sincerely Yours,
Keith Littleton
litt...@vnet.net
New Orleans, LA
"I further call on all sides to recognise that this is
primarily a theological debate. Theology is more fundamental
than science; good theology has led to good science, in the
emergence of Darwinism from the mainstream of a Christian
civilisation, and bad theology has led to bad science in the
creation scientists' material interpretation of Genesis and their
consequent torturing of the scientific facts to construct crazy
scientific theories like the 6000 year old earth, that they believe,
in genuine sincerity. Seeing that the issue lies not inside science
but beyond it might foster the mutual understanding that leads
to reconciliation."
From an essay was by Dr Anthony Garrett, a theoretical
physicist from Cambridge at:
http://www.onthenet.com.au/~stear/abcgarrett.htm
Robert ASF.
> Yes I've read the Bible and I know the stories. I also know about H.Shliman who
> discovered Troya believing in Omir's book ...
You can also read the Werner Keller The Bible as History, New
York: William Morrow 1981.
> But how about adding more pieces to the puzzle? For example:
> 1. I watched on Discovery about one theory that the alignment of the great
> pyramids in Gisa and one temple in Cambodia suggest that they (the pyramids and
> the temple) are built in about 10,500BC
The dating for the Great Pyramids is seeming not that old.
> 2. In the same programme was discussed the disproportion of the Sphinx
> (head/body). They said that it suggest that initially it was a lion, and probably
> the Egyptians only changed the shape of the head ... This also lead to 10,500 BC
> ...
While i agree that the Sphinx was recarved from a lion, i do not
think it is consider that old.
> 3. In some Indian holy books (Mahabharata, Wedi ...) (sorry for any misspelled
> words in my letter - the spell checker doesn't know them all :-) ) are described
> battles in heavens, something like nuclear explosions, flying devices ...
While you cite the Hindu works correctly, there is little
information that can be verified in it.
> 4. In South America - some ancient cities currently at very high altitude have
> remains of shells and sea animals, suggesting that they have been on the ocean
> shore not very long time ago
Yes that is an easy one. They were a sea shore not too long ago.
Geographically speaking. The Mt are the edge of a plate and as they hit
another plate they rise up into the air.
> 5. The discovery of coal in Antarktida show that it was a green continent.
Yes and that show what?
> 6. ...
>
> probably you or somebody else can add more such facts. (no channelled info
> please!:-) all this is quite confusing already)
> My point is - this doesn't fit to year 7,500 and the chronology in the Bible,
> neither the Black Sea plays any role in the picture ...
Yet none of your examples seemingly effect the notion of the great
flood. If you read the book Noah's Flood, it does not attempt to make the
world into the bible but to show where the stories of the bible came from.
The great flood can be traced back to the flooding of the Black Sea 7500
years ago.
> The only way to build a nice looking theory is to disregard some of the facts.
Actually the reverse, we can build up theory of the physical
evidence from the stories of the bible.
> In my opinion the Bible could be taken seriously to some extent, but to think that
> it holds all answers ... I don't think so.
Robert ASF.
snip
> >You can believe anything you want, but human beings did not coexist with
> >dinosaurs.
> Do the research fella. There is solid evidence.
Ahhh no there is not.
Robert ASF.
One excellent post! Great sources thanks!
Robert ASF.
snip
> > Another story is the Tower of Babble.
>
> It changed its name to the internet.
And when Bill Gates get's mad... RL imitates the bible?
Robert ASF.
snip
>The scientists who say this, did not live back then and neither did you
> or I. But the earth layer that recorded a dinosaur footprint and a man
> footprint in the same layer and then hardened into rock, was there at
> the time. This was found in a riverbed in Texas.
The X-tian fundies have been on that hobby horse for years. It is
a fraud. The foot print is not a foot print but the result of water
erosion.
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> On Thu, 25 Nov Jeliazko Batchvarov <j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl> wrote:
> > Yes I've read the Bible and I know the stories. I also know about H.Shliman who
> > discovered Troya believing in Omir's book ...
>
> You can also read the Werner Keller The Bible as History, New
> York: William Morrow 1981.
>
> > But how about adding more pieces to the puzzle? For example:
> > 1. I watched on Discovery about one theory that the alignment of the great
> > pyramids in Gisa and one temple in Cambodia suggest that they (the pyramids and
> > the temple) are built in about 10,500BC
>
> The dating for the Great Pyramids is seeming not that old.
>
well, that seems true (excluding the pyramid of Heops because no drawings and old text
are found - at least some archaeologist disagree with the theory that the name of Heops
is written during his life time).
Another possibility is that there were some land marks (remains from other buildings for
example) and the pyramids were build on top of them ... Something similar can be seen in
Baalbek (I think) where huge stone blocks (1,000 tons or more each) form the foundation
of a temple build a few thousands years ago ...
(sorry that all my statements are not supported with exact names/books etc.)
> > 2. In the same programme was discussed the disproportion of the Sphinx
> > (head/body). They said that it suggest that initially it was a lion, and probably
> > the Egyptians only changed the shape of the head ... This also lead to 10,500 BC
> > ...
>
> While i agree that the Sphinx was recarved from a lion, i do not
> think it is consider that old.
>
there are some traces on the surface of the sphinx showing that there were heavy raining
during its existence ... this hasn't happened for a quite long time in Egypt
> > 3. In some Indian holy books (Mahabharata, Wedi ...) (sorry for any misspelled
> > words in my letter - the spell checker doesn't know them all :-) ) are described
> > battles in heavens, something like nuclear explosions, flying devices ...
>
> While you cite the Hindu works correctly, there is little
> information that can be verified in it.
>
yes, that's true. I also think that most of the text probably can be interpreted in many
different ways ... but it's the same for the Bible - the book of Ezeekil for example
...
> > 4. In South America - some ancient cities currently at very high altitude have
> > remains of shells and sea animals, suggesting that they have been on the ocean
> > shore not very long time ago
>
> Yes that is an easy one. They were a sea shore not too long ago.
> Geographically speaking. The Mt are the edge of a plate and as they hit
> another plate they rise up into the air.
>
The earth quake in Turkey - not very long time ago - (as most of the earth quakes) is
caused by such a 'hit'. Rising >1000m above the sea level ... that sould be horrible
Another question is how long this process took? And when?
> > 5. The discovery of coal in Antarktida show that it was a green continent.
>
> Yes and that show what?
>
well, my point was based on another theory - also inspired from the Bible. In the Bible
is said that the heavens opened and water fell from the heavens ... (sorry again for the
incorrect translation).
The theory is that there was a lot H2O high in the athmosphere (not in a form of clouds
- but higher - in the stratosphere) and therefore the green house effect was much
stronger. Therefore there were no sesons, but during the year the temperature was
approximately the same on the whole Earth ... Something happened which destroid the
protective layer and the ice age began ....
just a theory ...
> > 6. ...
> >
> > probably you or somebody else can add more such facts. (no channelled info
> > please!:-) all this is quite confusing already)
> > My point is - this doesn't fit to year 7,500 and the chronology in the Bible,
> > neither the Black Sea plays any role in the picture ...
>
> Yet none of your examples seemingly effect the notion of the great
> flood. If you read the book Noah's Flood, it does not attempt to make the
> world into the bible but to show where the stories of the bible came from.
> The great flood can be traced back to the flooding of the Black Sea 7500
> years ago.
>
I don't agree - my point was that from different 'holy' books, myths, archaeological
facts ... you can build different theories supporting global or local flood ...
For example, the archaeological findings in Mesopotamia (more than 10m of 'mud' between
2 layers of human/buildings remains) point to a huge local flood. This also could be the
source for the Biblical flood, for it is well known that the Bible has its origin in the
Shumer's books.
> > The only way to build a nice looking theory is to disregard some of the facts.
>
> Actually the reverse, we can build up theory of the physical
> evidence from the stories of the bible.
I don't think we have the facts to build a correct theory concerning this matter.
>
>
> > In my opinion the Bible could be taken seriously to some extent, but to think that
> > it holds all answers ... I don't think so.
>
> So it is a good thing that i wrote:
>
> > > It just go to show you that while the religious nature of the
> > > bible is open to challenge, its historical and scientific value is
> > > excellent!
>
ghos...@my-deja.com
Keith Littleton <litt...@katie.vnet.net> wrote:
> In alt.alien.visitors ghos...@my-deja.com wrote:
> : In article <383CBE...@budweiser.com>,
> : loumi...@budweiser.com wrote:
> ... text deleted ...
you
> : or I. But the earth layer that recorded a dinosaur footprint and a
man
> : footprint in the same layer and then hardened into rock, was there
at
> : the time. This was found in a riverbed in Texas.
>
>
>
> New Orleans, LA
>
> "I further call on all sides to recognise that this is
> primarily a theological debate. Theology is more fundamental
> than science; good theology has led to good science, in the
> emergence of Darwinism from the mainstream of a Christian
> civilisation, and bad theology has led to bad science in the
> creation scientists' material interpretation of Genesis and their
> consequent torturing of the scientific facts to construct crazy
> scientific theories like the 6000 year old earth, that they believe,
> in genuine sincerity. Seeing that the issue lies not inside science
> but beyond it might foster the mutual understanding that leads
> to reconciliation."
>
> From an essay was by Dr Anthony Garrett, a theoretical
> physicist from Cambridge at:
>
> http://www.onthenet.com.au/~stear/abcgarrett.htm
>
to match the facts to fit the theory. The fossil record contains
different species and evolution tries to say that these species evolved
into one another. It has been said that there are a million missing
links in the fossil record; the supposed evolutionary links between
these species are not found in the fossils. At best, natural selection
and even gene adaptation can only account for a species turning into a
subspecies; they are never observed to change into a whole new species.
I would like to point out that this is primarily a theological debate.
Good theology like the Bible has led to good science that matches what
is observed in the fossil record, the creation theory. And bad theology
like not believing the genesis account just because they don't want to,
has led to bad Science like Darwinism and evolution which contradicts
what is found in the fossil record and led to torturing the scientific
facts, like piltdown man. Not all creation scientists think that the
earth is only 6,000 years old; I don't. Seeing that this issue lies
with people like evolutionists who do not know how to practice science
properly, I hope that honest scientists everywhere will let the facts
stand as they are observed and change their theories to fit the facts.
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> > 1. I watched on Discovery about one theory that the alignment of the
> great
> > pyramids in Gisa and one temple in Cambodia suggest that they (the
> pyramids and
> > the temple) are built in about 10,500BC
> > 2. In the same programme was discussed the disproportion of the Sphinx
> > (head/body). They said that it suggest that initially it was a lion,
> and probably
> > the Egyptians only changed the shape of the head ... This also lead to
> 10,500 BC
> In the first place the methods of dating past objects have a sizeable
> margin of error.
I agree
> If there really was a flood, that mixed-up the earth
> layers and that makes dating past objects even harder. The carbon 14
> dating process is even questionable; a living mollusk was carbon dated
> at thousands of years old, this indicates that we don't understand
> everything about carbon 14. Much of the ages that they put on ancient
> objects are guesswork with a sizeable margin of error. I saw one theory
> that put the age of the sphinx at around 12,000 years. The Mahabharata
> stories come from around 15,000 years, they say. The geaneology in the
> Bible is accurate as written.
there is no proof of that
> From genesis until around the time of
> Abraham's grandfather, people lived much longer than now. (Noah was 500
> years old before he started to build the ark, Adam and Methusela lived
> for over 900 years)
also in the Egyptians scripts you can find such 'very long living' people.
If ET is involved, that would explain everything ... also if God exists :-)
> Since 1969 men have been megadosing on vitamins and
> their are people in the world today that are 20 years younger than they
> are supposed to be. The people in the book of Genesis may have been
> processing vitamins from foods to extend their life spans; this seems to
> have been a forgotten technology rediscovered by man around 1900.
> These ancient advanced civilizations that built stone buildings with
> stones weighing 200 tons or more
I think even more than 1000 tons
> did have a technology unknown to us; we
> could not build those buildings today.
> Since men lived much longer back then, and the final age of everyone
> mentioned in the geneology of the Bible is not written,
you are mistaken - it is written for all 'important' persons.
> the Bible
> geneology could really extend back much further than 7,500 years.
I think that the Bible goes back to 5,000 BC !?
> These ancient race memories about ancient advanced civilizations like
> Atlantis being destroyed when it sunk are probably
probably is the correct word for most of the things we are talking about.
> memories of Noah's
> flood which were passed down to many people in different areas and the
> stories got changed in time as they were retold. These ancient
> civilizations existed before Noah's flood and were destroyed in Noah's
> flood, because they were wicked. Hebrew legends say that the people
> before Noah's flood knew secrets of Angel technology [extraterrestrial
> technology].
some Chinese books also have interesting descriptions
> Plato's story of Atlantis says that they processed
> extracts from fruits which sounds like vitamins. Ancient texts from
> Egypt say that the great stones to build the pyramids were levitated by
> the Priests of On and made to fly the distance of a bow shot.
also the figures (and their hats) on the ??????? island (sorry - I often run
out of english version of the names. Hope you know what I am talking about.)
but how much truth you have in a myth?
> (Extra
> terrestrial technology can levitate UFOs and probably stones too.)
> Cities near Pakistan were found with clay and stones melted
also in England
> with the
> heat of a thermonuclear blast
this is a guess again
> which tends to verify the stories of wars
> of flying aircraft and terrible weapons in the ancient Indian texts.
> The Bible is true as written, but the problems come when people
> misinterpret what they read in it.
there is no guarantee that you or I are interpreting it correctly, not to
mention all religious people ...
>
>
> > 3. In some Indian holy books (Mahabharata, Wedi ...) (sorry for any
> misspelled
> > words in my letter - the spell checker doesn't know them all :-) ) are
> described
> > battles in heavens, something like nuclear explosions, flying devices
> ...
> > 4. In South America - some ancient cities currently at very high
> altitude have
> > remains of shells and sea animals, suggesting that they have been on
> the ocean
> > shore not very long time ago
>
> >
> > probably you or somebody else can add more such facts. (no channelled
> info
> > please!:-) all this is quite confusing already)
> >
> > My point is - this doesn't fit to year 7,500 and the chronology in the
> Bible,
> > neither the Black Sea plays any role in the picture ...
>
> >Again, the Bible geneology probably goes back much further than this.
>
> > The only way to build a nice looking theory is to disregard some of
> the facts.
> >
> > In my opinion the Bible could be taken seriously to some extent, but
> to think that
> > it holds all answers ... I don't think so.
> >
> > --------------------------------
Robert ASF.
snip
>Real Science matches the theory to fit the facts. False science tries
> to match the facts to fit the theory. The fossil record contains
> different species and evolution tries to say that these species evolved
> into one another. It has been said that there are a million missing
> links in the fossil record;
Yes it has been said... and nothing more came of it.
> the supposed evolutionary links between
> these species are not found in the fossils.
An extremely general statement, some links can be found while
others are missing.
> At best, natural selection
> and even gene adaptation can only account for a species turning into a
> subspecies;
Please post a peer review article that backs that up.
> they are never observed to change into a whole new species.
> I would like to point out that this is primarily a theological debate.
> Good theology like the Bible has led to good science that matches what
> is observed in the fossil record, the creation theory.
No it is science not religion.
> And bad theology
> like not believing the genesis account
that is accounts, as in more than one. Which genesis account
should we believe. You do know there is more than one creation myth? Did
G*d make a mistake and wipe out the first earth to do it again?
> just because they don't want to,
> has led to bad Science like Darwinism
Darwin is not science. Nor is Darwinism. The first, referring to
man is that he made a theory that was un testable until Mendel and his
peas came to light. The second is a cult of personalities.
> and evolution which contradicts
> what is found in the fossil record and led to torturing the scientific
> facts, like piltdown man.
Not sure the spelling is right, but do you refer to the hoax?
> Not all creation scientists think that the
> earth is only 6,000 years old; I don't.
Then you are either without foundation or a heretic.
> Seeing that this issue lies
> with people like evolutionists who do not know how to practice science
> properly, I hope that honest scientists everywhere will let the facts
> stand as they are observed and change their theories to fit the facts.
Sounds good. but not in the way you mean.
Robert ASF.
snip
> there are some traces on the surface of the sphinx showing that there were heavy raining
> during its existence ... this hasn't happened for a quite long time in Egypt
Actually while that is not true, it is an often asked question...
why *I* asked it last year. A nice man named Archae Solomom (Sp??) (if
you are lurking drop in on the thread!) post a dozen references to
geography journals that deal with this. While not able to evaluate them
more than to say they make an excellent case that while the erosion looks
like water it could have easily been done by blown salt. The result would
be the same. And salt does blown on the desert winds...
(now if only i could find that post to repost those sources...)
Your claim comes from the mystery of the sphinx.
snip
> yes, that's true. I also think that most of the text probably can be interpreted in many
> different ways ... but it's the same for the Bible - the book of Ezeekil for example
> ...
Except we can use the bible to show us where to look for things.
ie the walls of Jerico. As well we may turn to the bible as an explanation
of discoveries.
snip
> well, my point was based on another theory - also inspired from the Bible. In the Bible
> is said that the heavens opened and water fell from the heavens ... (sorry again for the
> incorrect translation).
Based on religious dogma which cannot be evaluated. However if we
assume that when they speak of a flood they mean a flood that is not
divine but one that actually happened, we may search for it and its cause.
> The theory is that there was a lot H2O high in the athmosphere (not in a form of clouds
> - but higher - in the stratosphere) and therefore the green house effect was much
> stronger. Therefore there were no sesons, but during the year the temperature was
> approximately the same on the whole Earth ... Something happened which destroid the
> protective layer and the ice age began ....
> just a theory ...
And one with no bases in the geological record. If only i could
find that guys email addy, he posted info on this and similar subjects.
snip
> I don't agree - my point was that from different 'holy' books, myths, archaeological
> facts ... you can build different theories supporting global or local flood ...
Theories are a dime a dozen the key is proof. In this case, the
book Noah's flood is backed up by scholarship.
> For example, the archaeological findings in Mesopotamia (more than 10m of 'mud' between
> 2 layers of human/buildings remains) point to a huge local flood. This also could be the
> source for the Biblical flood, for it is well known that the Bible has its origin in the
> Shumer's books.
Yet this story would not create the scattering of peoples to China
Israel etc. When a theory cannot explain things and another does it
better, you drop one that explains less.
snip
> I don't think we have the facts to build a correct theory concerning this matter.
I disagree, what is more there are scholars who agree with me.
snip
Just Thought I Should Mention It
Eternal Creator
> On Fri, 26 Nov Jeliazko Batchvarov <j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> > there are some traces on the surface of the sphinx showing that there were heavy raining
> > during its existence ... this hasn't happened for a quite long time in Egypt
>
> Actually while that is not true, it is an often asked question...
> why *I* asked it last year. A nice man named Archae Solomom (Sp??) (if
> you are lurking drop in on the thread!) post a dozen references to
> geography journals that deal with this. While not able to evaluate them
> more than to say they make an excellent case that while the erosion looks
> like water it could have easily been done by blown salt. The result would
> be the same. And salt does blown on the desert winds...
>
> (now if only i could find that post to repost those sources...)
>
> Your claim comes from the mystery of the sphinx.
>
> snip
>
> > yes, that's true. I also think that most of the text probably can be interpreted in many
> > different ways ... but it's the same for the Bible - the book of Ezeekil for example
> > ...
>
> Except we can use the bible to show us where to look for things.
> ie the walls of Jerico. As well we may turn to the bible as an explanation
> of discoveries.
>
> snip
>
> > well, my point was based on another theory - also inspired from the Bible. In the Bible
> > is said that the heavens opened and water fell from the heavens ... (sorry again for the
> > incorrect translation).
>
> Based on religious dogma which cannot be evaluated. However if we
> assume that when they speak of a flood they mean a flood that is not
> divine but one that actually happened, we may search for it and its cause.
Total natural cyclic earth change episode. Godly or divine processes had nothing to do with
it. God only exists so that I may shit down the motherfucker's throat.
Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh hail the fucking satan our lord
hhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllleyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> > The theory is that there was a lot H2O high in the athmosphere (not in a form of clouds
> > - but higher - in the stratosphere) and therefore the green house effect was much
> > stronger. Therefore there were no sesons, but during the year the temperature was
> > approximately the same on the whole Earth ... Something happened which destroid the
> > protective layer and the ice age began ....
> > just a theory ...
>
> And one with no bases in the geological record. If only i could
> find that guys email addy, he posted info on this and similar subjects.
>
> snip
>
> > I don't agree - my point was that from different 'holy' books, myths, archaeological
> > facts ... you can build different theories supporting global or local flood ...
>
> Theories are a dime a dozen the key is proof. In this case, the
> book Noah's flood is backed up by scholarship.
>
> > For example, the archaeological findings in Mesopotamia (more than 10m of 'mud' between
> > 2 layers of human/buildings remains) point to a huge local flood. This also could be the
> > source for the Biblical flood, for it is well known that the Bible has its origin in the
> > Shumer's books.
>
> Yet this story would not create the scattering of peoples to China
> Israel etc. When a theory cannot explain things and another does it
> better, you drop one that explains less.
>
> snip
>
> > I don't think we have the facts to build a correct theory concerning this matter.
>
> I disagree, what is more there are scholars who agree with me.
>
> snip
>
Eternal Creator
> On Fri, 26 Nov Jeliazko Batchvarov <j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> > there are some traces on the surface of the sphinx showing that there were heavy raining
> > during its existence ... this hasn't happened for a quite long time in Egypt
>
> Actually while that is not true, it is an often asked question...
> why *I* asked it last year. A nice man named Archae Solomom (Sp??) (if
> you are lurking drop in on the thread!) post a dozen references to
> geography journals that deal with this. While not able to evaluate them
> more than to say they make an excellent case that while the erosion looks
> like water it could have easily been done by blown salt. The result would
> be the same. And salt does blown on the desert winds...
>
> (now if only i could find that post to repost those sources...)
>
> Your claim comes from the mystery of the sphinx.
>
> snip
>
> > yes, that's true. I also think that most of the text probably can be interpreted in many
> > different ways ... but it's the same for the Bible - the book of Ezeekil for example
> > ...
>
> Except we can use the bible to show us where to look for things.
> ie the walls of Jerico. As well we may turn to the bible as an explanation
> of discoveries.
>
> snip
>
> > well, my point was based on another theory - also inspired from the Bible. In the Bible
> > is said that the heavens opened and water fell from the heavens ... (sorry again for the
> > incorrect translation).
>
> Based on religious dogma which cannot be evaluated. However if we
> assume that when they speak of a flood they mean a flood that is not
> divine but one that actually happened, we may search for it and its cause.
>
> > The theory is that there was a lot H2O high in the athmosphere (not in a form of clouds
> > - but higher - in the stratosphere) and therefore the green house effect was much
> > stronger. Therefore there were no sesons, but during the year the temperature was
> > approximately the same on the whole Earth ... Something happened which destroid the
> > protective layer and the ice age began ....
> > just a theory ...
>
> And one with no bases in the geological record. If only i could
> find that guys email addy, he posted info on this and similar subjects.
>
> snip
>
> > I don't agree - my point was that from different 'holy' books, myths, archaeological
> > facts ... you can build different theories supporting global or local flood ...
>
> Theories are a dime a dozen the key is proof. In this case, the
> book Noah's flood is backed up by scholarship.
>
> > For example, the archaeological findings in Mesopotamia (more than 10m of 'mud' between
> > 2 layers of human/buildings remains) point to a huge local flood. This also could be the
> > source for the Biblical flood, for it is well known that the Bible has its origin in the
> > Shumer's books.
>
> Yet this story would not create the scattering of peoples to China
> Israel etc. When a theory cannot explain things and another does it
> better, you drop one that explains less.
>
> snip
>
> > I don't think we have the facts to build a correct theory concerning this matter.
>
> I disagree, what is more there are scholars who agree with me.
>
> snip
>
> Just Thought I Should Mention It
How is Fabrikant doing?
Robert ASF.
snip
> Total natural cyclic earth change episode. Godly or divine processes had nothing to do with
> it. God only exists so that I may shit down the motherfucker's throat.
> Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh hail the fucking satan our lord
> hhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllleyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!
snip
Well and there is this opinion...
Robert ASF.
snip
> How is Fabrikant doing?
Life without parole.
Doug Weller
> Yes I've read the Bible and I know the stories. I also know about H.Shliman who
> discovered Troya believing in Omir's book ...
>
> pyramids in Gisa and one temple in Cambodia suggest that they (the pyramids and
You misunderstood this. The argument is that their sites were planned then. Not
that they were built then. Graham Hancock, whose program I assume you are
talking about, explicitly accepts the traditional dates.
> 2. In the same programme was discussed the disproportion of the Sphinx
> (head/body). They said that it suggest that initially it was a lion, and probably
> the Egyptians only changed the shape of the head ... This also lead to 10,500 BC
On the basis that because it faces East, and Leo was there then, .... Obviously
you don't need something complicated for the fact that it faces East (the
geology alone means it couldn't have faced north!).
> 3. In some Indian holy books (Mahabharata, Wedi ...) (sorry for any misspelled
> words in my letter - the spell checker doesn't know them all :-) ) are described
> battles in heavens, something like nuclear explosions, flying devices ...
Channelled stuff
> 4. In South America - some ancient cities currently at very high altitude have
> remains of shells and sea animals, suggesting that they have been on the ocean
> shore not very long time ago
Not the cities, the land. The cities came long after the land rose.
> 5. The discovery of coal in Antarktida show that it was a green continent.
Millions of years ago, when it was not where it is now.
Doug
--
Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
Submissions to: sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk
Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details
Doug Weller
> In some books about UFOs is described a case in Peru that a local man (and
> also a local museum I think) has a collection of more than 100,000 stones
> with pictures on them. On some of the pictures there is dinosaurs like
> creatures and people together. I have to admit though that no photos were
> shown in the book.
I've been watching an old tv program on these Ica Stones. It shows someone
making these stones, aging them with donkey dung, and who claims he did the
drawings for the original Ica stones (backing it up by showing a newspaper
article with pictures of a heart etc. which is very obviously the model for the
'heart transplant' series.
One of the supposedly genuine stones was studied by the Institute of Geological
Sciences in London, who looked at the grooves and said they were too sharp to be
very old, and that the grooves were not, as they should have been, covered with
oxidation.
> However there is another case of strange pictures showing strange animals
> and people ... in Egypt. The picture shows two giant animals with long necks
> and people leading them on a leash. Also much smaller creatures with human
> like heads and hands but animal bodies, also lead on leash and one of the
> 'animals' is sucking its finger ...
Do you have a source for this one?
Doug Weller
> There is evidence worldwide of a sedimentary layer that was caused by a
> layer got all mixed-up in the cataclysm and you cannot use that layering
> below this layer to date anything. Below this layer, archeologists are
> of a dinosaur print in the same rock and a human foot print was found
> in the same rock as a dinosaur print. This tends to show that dinosaurs
> and sabre toothed tigers existed at the same time as men and
> trunks found embeded in coal shows that a cataclysm like a flood did
> Noah's flood, it would explain why aquatic dinosaurs like the Loch Ness
> monster and Ogo Pogo still survived. Land dinosaurs were too big to
> take aboard the ark; they drowned.
>
layer to ark it's wrong.
See http://www.talkorigins.org
Doug
Doug Weller
>
> In the first place the methods of dating past objects have a sizeable
> layers and that makes dating past objects even harder. The carbon 14
> dating process is even questionable; a living mollusk was carbon dated
> at thousands of years old, this indicates that we don't understand
> everything about carbon 14.
No, this shows you don't know anything about Carbon 14. This 'reservoir effect'
is well known.
And the layers aren't mixed up.
Much of the ages that they put on ancient
> objects are guesswork with a sizeable margin of error. I saw one theory
> that put the age of the sphinx at around 12,000 years. The Mahabharata
> stories come from around 15,000 years, they say.
The geologist (Robert Schoch) who looked at the Sphinx said 7000 years or more.
West says 12000 and links it to Mars. Other geologists say it is much more
recent, looking at the same evidence.
The geaneology in the
> Bible is accurate as written.
That's just an assertion. There is plenty of evidence that it is wrong. But
then, if you are going to believe the Bible literally, you'd better look at what
else you've posted!
> These ancient advanced civilizations that built stone buildings with
> stones weighing 200 tons or more did have a technology unknown to us; we
> could not build those buildings today.
No, we could built them today, if we wanted to. Look at my web page (url in
sig) for the bit about the Baalbek stones.
> technology]. Plato's story of Atlantis says that they processed
> extracts from fruits which sounds like vitamins. Ancient texts from
> Egypt say that the great stones to build the pyramids were levitated by
> the Priests of On and made to fly the distance of a bow shot.
Can you provide a citation for these texts? And extracts from fruits sounds like
juice. Which book is this in?
(Extra
> terrestrial technology can levitate UFOs and probably stones too.)
> Cities near Pakistan were found with clay and stones melted with the
> heat of a thermonuclear blast which tends to verify the stories of wars
> of flying aircraft and terrible weapons in the ancient Indian texts.
Citation, other than 1 'newspaper' report, please.
> The Bible is true as written, but the problems come when people
> misinterpret what they read in it.
Ah, you can get away with anything with this approach.
Doug Weller
> I think even more than 1000 tons
>
>
Doug Weller
> Another possibility is that there were some land marks (remains from other buildings for
> example) and the pyramids were build on top of them ... Something similar can be seen in
> Baalbek (I think) where huge stone blocks (1,000 tons or more each) form the foundation
> of a temple build a few thousands years ago ...
>
Doug
Doug Weller
> It has been said that there are a million missing
> these species are not found in the fossils.
>
They seem to want something half cat and half dog at times!
There are many, many pages at www.talkorigins.org on this.
Oh, and we have seen speciation. Wrong to claim we haven't.
Doug Weller
says...
>
> Actually while that is not true, it is an often asked question...
> why *I* asked it last year. A nice man named Archae Solomom (Sp??) (if
> you are lurking drop in on the thread!) post a dozen references to
> geography journals that deal with this. While not able to evaluate them
> more than to say they make an excellent case that while the erosion looks
> like water it could have easily been done by blown salt. The result would
> be the same. And salt does blown on the desert winds...
>
>
This is a quote from Paul Jordan's book, writing about Professor James
Harrell of the University of Toledo, Ohio, who responded to Schoch in
1994. "He emphasised that, while weathering patterns manifested at the
Sphinx can indeed be produced by rainfall, they can also result from
periodic wetting of limestone ...in the form of a saturated sand
cover....The vertically undulating erosion of the Sphinx body and
enclosure walls..Dr Harrell attributed to accelerated weathering --
under sometimes wet sand cover -- of the marly layers, in particular, of
rock member two, resulting from the expansion of clays during periods of
wetness and precipitation of salts during periods of drying."
Jordan also refers to, in some detail, an article in Geoarchaeology in
1995 by Dr K.L. Guari and colleagues, which enlarges on the role of salt
exfoliation in creating vertically undulating patterns.
Chowdhury, A.N., A.R. Punuru, and K.L. Gauri, 1990. Weathering of
Limestone Beds at the Great Sphinx; _Environmental Geology and Water
Science_, Vol. 15, No. 3, pp. 217-225.
Gauri, K.L., A.N. Chowdhury, N.P. Kulshreshtha, and A. R. Punuru, 1990.
Geologic Features and Durability of Limestones at the Sphinx;
_Environmental Geology and Water Science_, Vol. 16, No. 1, pp.
57-62.
Guari, K. L., J.J. Sinai, and J.K. Bandyopadhyay, 1995. Geologic
Weathering and its Implications on the Age of the Sphinx;
_Geoarchaeology_, Vol 10, No. 2, pp. 119-133.
Harrell, J. A., 1994. The Sphinx Controversy: Another Look at the
Geologic Evidence; _KMT_, vol 5., pp. 70-74.
Punuru, A.R., A.N. Chowdhury, N.P. Kulshreshtha, and K.L. Gauri, 1990.
Control of Porosity on Durability of Limestones at the Great Sphinx,
Egypt; _Environmental Geology and Water Science_, Vol. 15, No. 3,
pp. 225-232.
Doug Weller
> paluxy2
>
Thanks Keith. You've got a lot more patience than I have today!
Doug
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> >Real Science matches the theory to fit the facts. False science tries
> to match the facts to fit the theory. The fossil record contains
> different species and evolution tries to say that these species evolved
> into one another. It has been said that there are a million missing
> links in the fossil record;
In your opinion, what is the reason for this?
> the supposed evolutionary links between
> these species are not found in the fossils.
could it be because there are not enough 'well preserved' fossils
discovered?
> At best, natural selection
> and even gene adaptation can only account for a species turning into a
> subspecies; they are never observed to change into a whole new species.
how can you observe something that takes millions of years to change ...?
> I would like to point out that this is primarily a theological debate.
> Good theology like the Bible has led to good science that matches what
> is observed in the fossil record, the creation theory. And bad theology
> like not believing the genesis account just because they don't want to,
> has led to bad Science like Darwinism and evolution which contradicts
please give more examples of contradictions ... or maybe we should say -
human errors.
Theories are changing simply because we are still learning about the world
we live in. This however does not mean that God is the explanation for
everything we can't explain.
> what is found in the fossil record and led to torturing the scientific
> facts, like piltdown man. Not all creation scientists
few questions:
1. who create the creator?
2. who is the creator?
- some kind of spiritual creature?
- aliens? - if yes - who create them?
> think that the
> earth is only 6,000 years old; I don't.
> Seeing that this issue lies
> with people like evolutionists who do not know how to practice science
> properly,I hope that honest scientists everywhere will let the facts
> stand as they are observed and change their theories to fit the facts.
>
Boikat
Doug Weller wrote:
>
> In article <81eli0$8k4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ghos...@my-deja.com says...
> > There is evidence worldwide of a sedimentary layer that was caused by a
> > global flood.
Where?
> > If this is true then all of the layering beneath this
> > layer got all mixed-up in the cataclysm and you cannot use that layering
> > below this layer to date anything.
If everything got mixed up, then how do you
explain the fact that the layers follow an orderly
succession of biological diversification? For
that matter, if everything got all mixed up in
such a violent catastrophe, how do you explain the
layering to begin with?
> > Below this layer, archeologists are
> > just guessing about dates.
So, how come independent researchers dating
different successive layers seem to always come up
with dates that are consistent?
> > A sabre toothed tiger print was found inside
> > of a dinosaur print in the same rock
1) Where? 2) How do the know it was from a
saber toothed cat? 3) If such an print exists, has
a hoax or practical joke been ruled out? 4) Like
the supposed human footprints found along dinosaur
tracks, has natural erosion features and "wishful
preparation" been ruled out (I want to find a
human foot print here, so I'll carefully remove
all the dirt that does not look like a human foot
print...)?
> > and a human foot print was found
> > in the same rock as a dinosaur print.
Nope. See above, and also, none of these supposed
"human foot prints" have withstood any honest
evaluations as being a genuine: They have all
been shown to have been incompletely cleared
dinosaur tracks, erosion and surface features,
eroded dinosaur tracks, or out right hoaxes (Look
at the "Brodrick print", and try to say *that's*
not a fake!)
> > This tends to show that dinosaurs
> > and sabre toothed tigers existed at the same time as men and
> > evolutionary dating is seriously wrong.
No, this tends to show what what lengths people
that don't know what they are doing and have an
anti science agenda will go through to try to
refute reality.
> > Polystrate fossils such as tree
> > trunks found embeded in coal shows that a cataclysm like a flood did
> > happen and it mixed up the layers.
Not any more that any other local river flood is
"catastrophic". BTW, if the layers were all mixed
up, there wouldn't be any nice layers of coal.
> > If the dinosaurs were killed in
> > Noah's flood, it would explain why aquatic dinosaurs like the Loch Ness
> > monster and Ogo Pogo still survived.
1) Poof that the Lock Ness Monster exists? 2)
Proof that the said monster is a dinosaur. Same
for Ogo Pogo. Where's the evidence?
> > Land dinosaurs were too big to
> > take aboard the ark; they drowned.
So, what about the smaller dinosaurs? After all,
there are more cow sized dinosaurs than there are
"king sized" dinosaurs. There should have been no
problem at all fitting a pair of velociraptors
into the arke somewhere, or some ankylosaurs, or
some of the smaller ceratopsians. Protoceratops
wasn't much bigger than a pig. I'm sure they
would have fit in quite nicely. Where are they
then?
And WHO sits around and makes this crap up?
> >
> Can't find any accurate statements in the bit cited above. From sedimentary
> layer to ark it's wrong.
> See http://www.talkorigins.org
>
> Doug
> --
> Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
> Submissions to: sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
> Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk
> Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details
Boikat
Donovan
<ghos...@my-deja.comwrote
> I am inclined to believe that the dinosaurs were killed in Noah's flood.
> There is evidence worldwide of a sedimentary layer that was caused by a
> layer got all mixed-up in the cataclysm and you cannot use that layering
> just guessing about dates. A sabre toothed tiger print was found inside
> of a dinosaur print in the same rock and a human foot print was found
> in the same rock as a dinosaur print. This tends to show that dinosaurs
> and sabre toothed tigers existed at the same time as men and
> trunks found embeded in coal shows that a cataclysm like a flood did
> Noah's flood, it would explain why aquatic dinosaurs like the Loch Ness
> take aboard the ark; they drowned.
> and burned dinosaur bones would have been found. This was not found.
That's not true. In Nebraska a site was found that contained horses, camels,
turtles, weazels, bears, wolves, deers with three horns, elephants
(gympotherium). A teleoceras-pup (?) was found that didn't even have time to
let go of its mother's nipple. They were all buried in a thick layer of ash
rain. Strange thing is, the nearest crater is in New Mexico, a 1000
kilometers away. The find was dated at about 10 million years old.
<<BIG SNIP>>
Martin Crisp
<dwe...@ramtops.co.uk> wrote:
[piggy-backing too]
> In article <81eli0$8k4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ghos...@my-deja.com says...
> > There is evidence worldwide of a sedimentary layer that was caused by a
> > global flood. If this is true then all of the layering beneath this
> > layer got all mixed-up in the cataclysm and you cannot use that layering
> > below this layer to date anything. Below this layer, archeologists are
> > just guessing about dates. A sabre toothed tiger print was found inside
> > of a dinosaur print in the same rock and a human foot print was found
> > in the same rock as a dinosaur print. This tends to show that dinosaurs
> > and sabre toothed tigers existed at the same time as men and
> > evolutionary dating is seriously wrong. Polystrate fossils such as tree
> > trunks found embeded in coal shows that a cataclysm like a flood did
> > happen and it mixed up the layers. If the dinosaurs were killed in
> > Noah's flood, it would explain why aquatic dinosaurs like the Loch Ness
The above already addressed by others.
> > monster and Ogo Pogo still survived. Land dinosaurs were too big to
> > take aboard the ark; they drowned.
OK, so when Noah received God's command to take aboard all the animals
that breathed of the air etc etc this somehow excluded "creatures which
are too big"
Couldn't your God design an ark big enough? Surely if "He's" omnipotent
keeping an ark 1,000x1,000km made of tissue paper afloat would be a snap.
Why are you adding to scripture?
I see a big pit of brimstone in your future...
> Can't find any accurate statements in the bit cited above. From sedimentary
> layer to ark it's wrong.
> See http://www.talkorigins.org
Agreed.
Have Fun
Martin
--
Credo quia absurdum est
- Tertullian
SKY BOLT
rarely found with their bones<grin>. And they taste like (you guessed
it....) chicken! At least according to the late High Medical Lama of
pre-china-Tibet, Lobsang Rampa, who reported in one of his books about
an UFO hidden in a mountain which had dinosaur meat aboard.
I wonder if the new-found frozen mastodon ends up getting a chunk
barbequed by it's finders?? ....I would just have to try it if I was
them!! ...course it might make me want to carry a baseball bat in one
hand and drag my wife by the hair in the other, LOL.
Best Regards,
Skybolt
ghos...@my-deja.com
>
>
> > technology]. Plato's story of Atlantis says that they processed
> > extracts from fruits which sounds like vitamins. Ancient texts from
> > Egypt say that the great stones to build the pyramids were levitated
by
> > the Priests of On and made to fly the distance of a bow shot.
>
I read that text about the pyramids in an old ufo book called Flying
Saucers have landed. [Note: This book was written by two men. The
first half by a well known ufo hoaxer named George Adamski; the second
half was written by a serious researcher that examined ancient texts.
His name was Desmond Leslie. The reference is in this book. You can
find this book at most public libraries; it is long out of print. The
parts of this book that look like a hoax are because of Adamski.]
> Can you provide a citation for these texts? And extracts from fruits
sounds like
> juice. Which book is this in?
>The reference about the fruit extracts is from a study of Atlantis I
saw on TV either on the Discovery Channel or TLC. I believe it refered
to something more important then juice by the way it was stated;
something like the essence of foods.
(Extra
> > terrestrial technology can levitate UFOs and probably stones too.)
> > Cities near Pakistan were found with clay and stones melted with the
> > heat of a thermonuclear blast which tends to verify the stories of
wars
> > of flying aircraft and terrible weapons in the ancient Indian texts.
>
> Citation, other than 1 'newspaper' report, please.
>
http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/hamilton/ancientaircraft_nf.shtml
> > The Bible is true as written, but the problems come when people
> > misinterpret what they read in it.
>
> Ah, you can get away with anything with this approach.
> >
> If you seriously ask God to show you what the Bible means and believe
that He will, then He will give you the correct interpretation; however
this might only work for real christians. The Bible has certain
passages that suggest that if a person is not seeking the truth or if he
is a sinning rebel against righteousness then the truth will be witheld
from him so that he can be damned; he's not fit to become an angel.
> --
> Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
> Submissions to: sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
> Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk
> Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details
>
danderso...@notsisna.com
...snip...
>If a meteor had killed them as some say, then a large number of charred
>and burned dinosaur bones would have been found. This was not found.
>
...snip...
Most of the arguments have already been debunked by others, so I'll
tackle this one.
Common sense would suggest that there would be a lot of dinosaur
bones found at the KT boundary if all the dinosaurs died at about the
same time. However, this is a good example of a case where common
sense is misleading. In fact, there should not be many bones found at
the KT boundary at all. All the dinosaurs that died at the KT event
were basically from one generation. But, the dinosaurs populated the
earth in great abundance for more than 100 million years. If a
generation of dinosaurs took 100 years, then there would have been 1
million generations of dinosaurs that lived and died BEFORE the KT
event. (Actually, an average generation of dinosaurs was probably less
than 100 years, which means there would have been MORE than 1 million
generations) So for every dinosaur that died at the KT event, more
than a million others would have already died during the rest of the
age of the dinosaurs. This means that if you found 1million dinosaur
fossils, the odds are that only one of them (if any) would be from the
KT event.
Or looking at it another way, the number of dinosaurs that died at
the KT event would be about the same as the number dieing in any other
average century. Being that fossil beds usually contain fossils
accumulated over many centuries at least, a fossil bed at the KT could
not be expected to have any more fossils than any other.
As for charred bones, if KT bones are rare, then charred KT bones
would be even rarer. Only a small percentage of the KT dinosaurs could
have had their bones charred. If they were too close to the impact,
they would have been totally vaporized, leaving no bones at all. If
they were too far away, they would only be burned on the outside of
their bodies, their bones would not get charred. The vast majority
would not have been burned at all, but died from the extreme changes
in their environment.
Dwane
Doug Weller
Sky...@webtv.net says...
> ...why, _big_game_ hunters, silly! Why do you think intact heads are
> rarely found with their bones<grin>. And they taste like (you guessed
> it....) chicken! At least according to the late High Medical Lama of
> pre-china-Tibet, Lobsang Rampa, who reported in one of his books about
> an UFO hidden in a mountain which had dinosaur meat aboard.
>
>
Doug
Doug Weller
>
>
> >
>
> >
> > > technology]. Plato's story of Atlantis says that they processed
> > > extracts from fruits which sounds like vitamins. Ancient texts from
> > > Egypt say that the great stones to build the pyramids were levitated
> by
> > > the Priests of On and made to fly the distance of a bow shot.
> >
> I read that text about the pyramids in an old ufo book called Flying
> Saucers have landed.
In other words, no citation to a genuine Egyptian text.
[SNIP]
> > Can you provide a citation for these texts? And extracts from fruits
> sounds like
> > juice. Which book is this in?
> >The reference about the fruit extracts is from a study of Atlantis I
> saw on TV either on the Discovery Channel or TLC. I believe it refered
> to something more important then juice by the way it was stated;
> something like the essence of foods.
Convince me. Find it in Plato. Library.
>
> (Extra
> > > terrestrial technology can levitate UFOs and probably stones too.)
> > > Cities near Pakistan were found with clay and stones melted with the
> > > heat of a thermonuclear blast which tends to verify the stories of
> wars
> > > of flying aircraft and terrible weapons in the ancient Indian texts.
> >
> > Citation, other than 1 'newspaper' report, please.
> >
> http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/hamilton/ancientaircraft_nf.shtml
Oh, and not Childress's channelled stuff either, please. Does your religion
allow you to accept this sort of thing? The bit about Mohenjo-Daro is full of lies and ignorance, even to the extent of not knowing when it was excavated.
And English translations of stuff where no one can find the originals. Pull the
other one.
This bit:
In the temple at Abydios, she photographed a wall panel in a section where an overlaying panel with Egyptian heiroglyphics crumbled and fell, revealing an older panel beneath it. This older panel, shown below, contains embossed images of what appear to be ancient aircraft.
As is well known, the panel did crumble, leaving a palimpsest, ie remains of the new and of the old. That is NOT one panel that is pictured. Anyone who thinks
that we wouldn't see archaeological remains of the technology needed for helicopters and planes hasn't a clue.
Doug Weller
[SNIP]
even to the extent of not knowing when it was excavated. And the bit about
Easter Island being on the same airline route as Mohenjo-Daro? Hysterical.
They're only about 4000 years apart. Some airplanes to offer time travel as
well!
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> In article <81nv6j$vel$1...@newsflash.concordia.ca>, ra_f...@alcor.concordia.ca
> says...
> >
> > Actually while that is not true, it is an often asked question...
> > why *I* asked it last year. A nice man named Archae Solomom (Sp??) (if
> > you are lurking drop in on the thread!) post a dozen references to
> > geography journals that deal with this. While not able to evaluate them
> > more than to say they make an excellent case that while the erosion looks
> > like water it could have easily been done by blown salt. The result would
> > be the same. And salt does blown on the desert winds...
> >
> >
> You're thinking of salt exfoliation:
>
> This is a quote from Paul Jordan's book, writing about Professor James
> Harrell of the University of Toledo, Ohio, who responded to Schoch in
> 1994. "He emphasised that, while weathering patterns manifested at the
> Sphinx can indeed be produced by rainfall, they can also result from
> periodic wetting of limestone ...in the form of a saturated sand
> cover....The vertically undulating erosion of the Sphinx body and
> enclosure walls..Dr Harrell attributed to accelerated weathering --
> under sometimes wet sand cover -- of the marly layers, in particular, of
> rock member two, resulting from the expansion of clays during periods of
> wetness and precipitation of salts during periods of drying."
>
I am just curious:
- Is there any similar erosion on the sphinx head? if not, what is their
explanation?
- if they accept that the sphinx was initially a lion, when the head was formed?
Any ancient scripts describing that event?
> Jordan also refers to, in some detail, an article in Geoarchaeology in
> 1995 by Dr K.L. Guari and colleagues, which enlarges on the role of salt
> exfoliation in creating vertically undulating patterns.
>
> Chowdhury, A.N., A.R. Punuru, and K.L. Gauri, 1990. Weathering of
> Limestone Beds at the Great Sphinx; _Environmental Geology and Water
> Science_, Vol. 15, No. 3, pp. 217-225.
> Gauri, K.L., A.N. Chowdhury, N.P. Kulshreshtha, and A. R. Punuru, 1990.
> Geologic Features and Durability of Limestones at the Sphinx;
> _Environmental Geology and Water Science_, Vol. 16, No. 1, pp.
> 57-62.
> Guari, K. L., J.J. Sinai, and J.K. Bandyopadhyay, 1995. Geologic
> Weathering and its Implications on the Age of the Sphinx;
> _Geoarchaeology_, Vol 10, No. 2, pp. 119-133.
> Harrell, J. A., 1994. The Sphinx Controversy: Another Look at the
> Geologic Evidence; _KMT_, vol 5., pp. 70-74.
> Punuru, A.R., A.N. Chowdhury, N.P. Kulshreshtha, and K.L. Gauri, 1990.
> Control of Porosity on Durability of Limestones at the Great Sphinx,
> Egypt; _Environmental Geology and Water Science_, Vol. 15, No. 3,
> pp. 225-232.
>
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> In article <383BBA78...@ele.tue.nl>, j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl says...
> > In some books about UFOs is described a case in Peru that a local man (and
> > also a local museum I think) has a collection of more than 100,000 stones
> > with pictures on them. On some of the pictures there is dinosaurs like
> > creatures and people together. I have to admit though that no photos were
> > shown in the book.
>
> I've been watching an old tv program on these Ica Stones. It shows someone
> making these stones, aging them with donkey dung, and who claims he did the
> drawings for the original Ica stones (backing it up by showing a newspaper
> article with pictures of a heart etc. which is very obviously the model for the
> 'heart transplant' series.
>
> One of the supposedly genuine stones was studied by the Institute of Geological
> Sciences in London, who looked at the grooves and said they were too sharp to be
> very old, and that the grooves were not, as they should have been, covered with
> oxidation.
>
the point supporting the genuine origin is the lack of 'significant (if any) profit'
for the museum and the collector, as well as the large number of stones in each
collection (more than 100,000 ?). In some of the books I've read were shown pictures
of false and genuine stones also describing the method for achieving artificial
(accelerated) ageing by using acid and the differences in the appearance of the two
types of stones ...
I have to mention here that the books I've read concerning this subject are either
from Deniken or he is one of the most cited authors ... as well as some books with
serious criticism towards him.
> > However there is another case of strange pictures showing strange animals
> > and people ... in Egypt. The picture shows two giant animals with long necks
> > and people leading them on a leash. Also much smaller creatures with human
> > like heads and hands but animal bodies, also lead on leash and one of the
> > 'animals' is sucking its finger ...
>
> Do you have a source for this one?
yes, but first I have to correct myself - it is more appropriate to say "strange"
than "giant", and the people were draw somewhat behind and above the large creatures
...
The second scene is correctly described and the 'animals', and the people leading
them, are on the same level - walking next to each other. The animals are with the
size of an average dog.
First I've seen photos in one of the Deniken's books - "The eyes of the sphinx" (my
translation) but I've also seen this in the Archaeological museum in Amsterdam
(reproduction I suppose). Probably most of the museums with Egyptian section will
have it.
The second picture is very realistic and probably the only one showing sphinx like
creatures as pets (not as a (semi-)gods).
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> In article <383CFB2A...@ele.tue.nl>, j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl says...
> > Yes I've read the Bible and I know the stories. I also know about H.Shliman who
> > discovered Troya believing in Omir's book ...
> >
> > But how about adding more pieces to the puzzle? For example:
> > 1. I watched on Discovery about one theory that the alignment of the great
> > pyramids in Gisa and one temple in Cambodia suggest that they (the pyramids and
> > the temple) are built in about 10,500BC
>
> You misunderstood this. The argument is that their sites were planned then. Not
> that they were built then. Graham Hancock, whose program I assume you are
> talking about, explicitly accepts the traditional dates.
>
yes I agree. However, this still contradicts with the theory that the great flood is
connected only to the Black sea and that the people scattered all over the world after
~7,500 ...
> > 2. In the same programme was discussed the disproportion of the Sphinx
> > (head/body). They said that it suggest that initially it was a lion, and probably
> > the Egyptians only changed the shape of the head ... This also lead to 10,500 BC
>
> On the basis that because it faces East, and Leo was there then, .... Obviously
> you don't need something complicated for the fact that it faces East (the
> geology alone means it couldn't have faced north!).
>
> > 3. In some Indian holy books (Mahabharata, Wedi ...) (sorry for any misspelled
> > words in my letter - the spell checker doesn't know them all :-) ) are described
> > battles in heavens, something like nuclear explosions, flying devices ...
>
> Channelled stuff
it could be ... especially in India
>
>
> > 4. In South America - some ancient cities currently at very high altitude have
> > remains of shells and sea animals, suggesting that they have been on the ocean
> > shore not very long time ago
>
> Not the cities, the land. The cities came long after the land rose.
this rise another question - why anyone would build a city so high in the mountain?
besides, can anyone say what is the height of the biggest ancient cities in South
America? (2-3,000m I think !?) and the population I think was about 10-20,000 people?
or more? I don't see any reason to build cities so high in the mountain ...
>
>
> > 5. The discovery of coal in Antarktida show that it was a green continent.
>
> Millions of years ago, when it was not where it is now.
maybe we can calculate this if we know what is the speed (and the direction) with which
the continent moves (few sm/in per year or more?) And the next question - where exactly
the coal was found - close to the shore (has to be considered together with the
direction of movement) or close to the pole?
> Doug
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> On Fri, 26 Nov Jeliazko Batchvarov <j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> > there are some traces on the surface of the sphinx showing that there were heavy raining
> > during its existence ... this hasn't happened for a quite long time in Egypt
>
> Actually while that is not true, it is an often asked question...
> why *I* asked it last year. A nice man named Archae Solomom (Sp??) (if
> you are lurking drop in on the thread!) post a dozen references to
> geography journals that deal with this. While not able to evaluate them
> more than to say they make an excellent case that while the erosion looks
> like water it could have easily been done by blown salt. The result would
> be the same. And salt does blown on the desert winds...
>
What about traces on the head of the sphinx? and also ancient scripts concerning reshaping it
from lion to human (if this is the case). Besides are there any descriptions about building
the sphinx?
> (now if only i could find that post to repost those sources...)
>
> Your claim comes from the mystery of the sphinx.
>
> snip
>
> > yes, that's true. I also think that most of the text probably can be interpreted in many
> > different ways ... but it's the same for the Bible - the book of Ezeekil for example
> > ...
>
> Except we can use the bible to show us where to look for things.
> ie the walls of Jerico. As well we may turn to the bible as an explanation
> of discoveries.
>
> snip
>
> > well, my point was based on another theory - also inspired from the Bible. In the Bible
> > is said that the heavens opened and water fell from the heavens ... (sorry again for the
> > incorrect translation).
>
> Based on religious dogma which cannot be evaluated. However if we
> assume that when they speak of a flood they mean a flood that is not
> divine but one that actually happened, we may search for it and its cause.
>
> > The theory is that there was a lot H2O high in the athmosphere (not in a form of clouds
> > - but higher - in the stratosphere) and therefore the green house effect was much
> > stronger. Therefore there were no sesons, but during the year the temperature was
> > approximately the same on the whole Earth ... Something happened which destroid the
> > protective layer and the ice age began ....
> > just a theory ...
>
> And one with no bases in the geological record. If only i could
> find that guys email addy, he posted info on this and similar subjects.
>
the only fact that could support this theory is if there were no 'polar ice hats' on the
poles, which was my point pointing to the coal found in Antarktida ... however I don't
consider this as a solid fact confirming this theory ...
> snip
>
> > I don't agree - my point was that from different 'holy' books, myths, archaeological
> > facts ... you can build different theories supporting global or local flood ...
>
> Theories are a dime a dozen the key is proof. In this case, the
> book Noah's flood is backed up by scholarship.
>
> > For example, the archaeological findings in Mesopotamia (more than 10m of 'mud' between
> > 2 layers of human/buildings remains) point to a huge local flood. This also could be the
> > source for the Biblical flood, for it is well known that the Bible has its origin in the
> > Shumer's books.
>
> Yet this story would not create the scattering of peoples to China
> Israel etc.
shouth/north america? there are also myths about a great flood all over the world.
Besides, there were people in China much earlier than 7,500BC
> When a theory cannot explain things and another does it
> better, you drop one that explains less.
>
not if it can't explain it all. Yes there are theories that offer better explanation of some
of the facts, but I haven't seen a unified theory yet (that explains them all).
> snip
>
> > I don't think we have the facts to build a correct theory concerning this matter.
>
> I disagree, what is more there are scholars who agree with me.
>
> snip
>
Jeliazko Batchvarov
just one more question:
- how the different races are explained by the theory of the great flood in the Black sea? -
7,500 years are surely not enough to make the people so different ...
and following this thought - how about the different languages? surely there is no connection
between hebrew and chinese, ...!?
Robert ASF.
snip
> I am just curious:
>
> - Is there any similar erosion on the sphinx head? if not, what is their
> explanation?
If it was carved latter, it stands to reason that it would have
less erosion due to the old weather beat stone being removed.
> - if they accept that the sphinx was initially a lion, when the head was formed?
> Any ancient scripts describing that event?
alas there is not. all we have is the reference to it being carved
and that is something that is open to interpretation.
IIRC the citation says that the Pharaoh had the thing carved. But
it can be read as the carving was from the lion to the sphinx...
Doug want to check my memory please?
Robert ASF.
snip
> yes I agree. However, this still contradicts with the theory that the great flood is
> connected only to the Black sea and that the people scattered all over the world after
> ~7,500 ...
Not at all. Your idea is incorrect in that you have assumed the
flood was world wide. Not the localized event. In this case if the flood
did occur in the Black Sea and it did scatter people to China, Europe,
Israel and Babylon, such that they share this common myth, that we have
today as the world wide flood of the Bible, then to trace the event back
to its roots is not to look for the religious flood or the world but for a
localized event.
An area that would be common to all groups, with an event that
would be comon to them as well and in the time period of the event.
IOW, we need not prove the world was flooded to prove the story is
true. But to look for an event that would produce such a story from within
the details of it. The Black Sea fits.
klaatu
Hi folks, it's been a while since I've trotted out my own plausible fantasy
on the demise of the dinosaurs, much of which I owe to Bischoff and
Vinicoff, I think.
All true.
However, I'd like to note that the archaeological evidence appears to
indicate that there was in fact nowhere near so rapid a die-off exactly at
the K-T event as many seem to presuppose. This is one of the more troubling
facts to those who wish to lay the extinction of the dinosaurs entirely at
the feet of an asteroidal impact.
That an asteroid impact occurred at this time is not in dispute, neither do
I dispute that the impact event is associated with a mass-extinction.
It has in fact been noted that there is considerable evidence that there was
_already_ a mass-extinction of the larger dinosaurs in progress at the time
of the impact event. This is generally admitted by both camps, either for or
against the K-T extinction event theory.
So, I shall once again offer my own unsupported, but not entirely
implausible, theory.
Towards the end of the Cretaceous period, a descendant of the stenonychid
variety of dinosaurs, which were mid-sized therapods not entirely dissimilar
from deinonychus -- a species characterized by binocular vision,
well-developed gripping appendages, and a fairly large brain, and probably
well-organized pack hunters -- evolved to the point where they were able to
reorganize their environment and became, much as are human beings, no longer
a universal prey but a universal predator. Eventually, they harnessed fire,
and used it to make better tools, learned to better use those better tools,
and increased their population to the point where conficts between groups
force the evolution of even more complex tools, eventually arriving at a
level of technology not dissimilar to that which we now enjoy.
Just as Man has been so successful a predator as to have eradicated many
species, either by overharvest, accident, or design, the Stenonychids also
had a massive impact on the ecology. As their civilization developed, much
as man reaches for the stars, the Stenonychids also reached starward. They,
like man developed technologies which ripped vast quantities of metals from
the ground, and concentrated it in refined forms. Like man, they developed
efficient means to harvest the earth, and like man they disrupted the
ecology.
(We are presently in the beginning of a mass-extinction, say seven out of
ten US biologists -- by the year 2050, some one in five species worldwide
are expected to be extinct, primarily due to the effects of human population
and the highly technical civilization needed to support it. We have reached
the point where if civilization were to suddenly and mysteriously vanish
overnight, and we were to all drop dead, there might in fact be an even
greater mass-extinction simply from the pollution of our putrefaction. We
have a massive impact on the earth and must always remember that.)
We can have no idea of the belief-systems of the Stenonychids, but we can
presume that if they developed technologies sufficient as to instigate a
true mass-extinction (instead of merely wiping out a varity of other species
piecemeal) they would also necessarily have science. If they were
sufficiently adept as scientists to reach starward with any degree of
success, their scientists would also have seen a looming ecological
catastrophe. As beings not possessed of the mammalian cortex, they might not
have much cared, so long as they believed that it would not be their own
lines of progenation which survived. But it can be argued that without
complex social structures, and probably complex social feeling, it would be
difficult to create a civilization capable of initiating a mass-extinction.
Perhaps the complex politics of the Stenonychids contained elements which
had opinions or platforms not dissimilar to those of our own "greenpeace"
organizations, willing to engage in sabotage rather than see wholesale
ecological degradation.
Space is full of earth-crossing asteroids, whose orbits regularly cross the
orbit of earth -- they have always been there, and until they have either
been diverted from such orbits or collide with the homeworld, they will
always be there, circling, waiting. One is headed our way now, with a very
close pass indeed expected in 2029. There are in fact many
highly-intelligent people who have very strong political views; some, like
Ted Kasczinski (sp?) were not only willing to kill for those views, but were
imaginatively successful at doing so. Can we but assume for the moment that
such individuals existed within the greater race of Stenonychids, we may
also assume that such individuals might have found or made a way to divert
some earth-crossing asteroid -- which would otherwise have made a near-miss
-- into an impact, under the theory that any intelligent species which could
initiate a mass-extinction was doomed already, and that it might be better
to simply eliminate that species by whatever means necessary, rather than
allow it to continue along a course guaranteed to probably eliminate all
post-eukaryotic life on the homeworld.
Who killed the dinosaurs?
They, or factions amongst them, killed themselves, and in fact almost their
entire order of life.
Will we do the same?
[original elements of this essay are copyright, 1999, by TJH Internet SP and
"Earth Operations Central" all rights reserved -- non-UseNet retransmission
is expressly prohibited.]
> Dwane
>
--
"We look through a glass but darkly:
What we see is more colored by our beliefs,
than what we believe is colored by what we see."
Doug Weller
>
> the point supporting the genuine origin is the lack of 'significant (if any) profit'
> for the museum and the collector, as well as the large number of stones in each
> collection (more than 100,000 ?).
>
strange things.
Robert ASF.
snip
> the only fact that could support this theory is if there were no 'polar ice hats' on the
> poles, which was my point pointing to the coal found in Antarktida ... however I don't
> consider this as a solid fact confirming this theory ...
Finding coal is relatively easy. All you need to find is carbon.
Coal being somewhere or not being in another place hardly is proof or
evidence of anything.
snip
> shouth/north america? there are also myths about a great flood all over the world.
> Besides, there were people in China much earlier than 7,500BC
They were not Chinese...
The people with the flood myth were found in a desert area...
snip
> not if it can't explain it all. Yes there are theories that offer better explanation of some
> of the facts, but I haven't seen a unified theory yet (that explains them all).
Nothing explains everything but i am unsure to what facts you
refer to. so far the book called Noah's Flood does a very good job of
rapping up a lot of factors.
Robert ASF.
snip
> just one more question:
> - how the different races are explained by the theory of the great flood in the Black sea? -
> 7,500 years are surely not enough to make the people so different ...
Ahhhh when you say race what are you talking about?
There is no such thing as a different race when we refer to
humans. What ever you wish to say is a different "race" black, white, Jew,
Chinese etc. are all human.
> and following this thought - how about the different languages? surely there is no connection
> between hebrew and chinese, ...!?
Between Chinese there are over 1000 version of it unified by a
common written language.
In Italy there are different dialects as well as German and they
come from the same root...
Keith Littleton
Donovan <Don...@wxs.nl> wrote:
><ghos...@my-deja.comwrote
... text deleted ...
>>If the dinosaurs were killed inNoah's flood, it
>>would explain why aquatic dinosaurs like the Loch Ness
>>monster and Ogo Pogo still survived. Land dinosaurs
>were too big to take aboard the ark; they drowned.
My favorite "explanation" was the editorial cartoon
that show that there were actually three arks. The
first survived with Noah and his family. The second
ark, filled with marsupials, got lost and ended up in
Australia, and the final ark with the dinosaurs sank
and casuing their extiction.
>>If a meteor had killed them as some say, then a large
>>number of charred and burned dinosaur bones would have
>>been found. This was not found.
>That's not true. In Nebraska a site was found that
>contained horses, camels, turtles, weazels, bears,
>wolves, deers with three horns, elephants (gympotherium).
>A teleoceras-pup (?) was found that didn't even have
>time to let go of its mother's nipple. They were all
>buried in a thick layer of ash rain. Strange thing is,
>the nearest crater is in New Mexico, a 1000
>kilometers away. The find was dated at about 10
>million years old.
><<BIG SNIP>>
It sounds like you are refering to bone bed at Ashfall
State Historical Park in Nebraska. Some web pages
about it are:
Voorhies. M. (1992) Ashfall: Life and Death at a Nebraska
Waterhole Ten Million Years Ago. University of Nebraska
State Museum Museum Notes Number 81., Lincoln, Nebraska
http://www-museum.unl.edu/research/vertpaleo/ashfall.html
Ashfall Fossil Beds State Historical Park
http://www-museum.unl.edu/research/vertpaleo/ash-feat.html
Ashfall Fossil Beds State Historical Park
http://ngp.ngpc.state.ne.us/parks/ashfall.html
The ashfall that killed the animals at Ashfall Fossil Beds
State Historical Park was the result of a massive volcanic
eruption to the west. One web page lists these reefrences:
" Science (vol. 206, pp. 331-333)
National Geographic Research Reports (vol. 19, pp. 671-688)"
Unfortunately, I am not able to get additional information
on either citation at this time.
The really odd fact about all of this is that a caldera
eruption at Yellowstone, Mammoth Lakes, Naples, and many
other location is far more likely than a meteorite impact
and could be as devastating. A caldera eruption in the
wrong place could kill hundreds of thousands of people
and cause trillions of dollars in damage, yet people are
far less aware and concerned about them in repsect to
meteorite impacts.
Yours,
Keith Littleton
litt...@vnet.net
New Orleans, LA
"It has been said that for the truth to exist it takes
two people: one to speak it and another to hear it".
-- announcer of a recent episode of "The Outer Limits"
entitled "To Tell the Truth".
Doug Weller
> this rise another question - why anyone would build a city so high in the mountain?
> besides, can anyone say what is the height of the biggest ancient cities in South
> America? (2-3,000m I think !?) and the population I think was about 10-20,000 people?
> or more? I don't see any reason to build cities so high in the mountain ...
>
the Himalayas! It would be almost impossible now to say why, probably a
combination of factors, some of which we'd perhaps never even think of.
Doug Weller
> - Is there any similar erosion on the sphinx head? if not, what is their
> explanation?
>
weathering. I'd think this as more of a problem for Schoch. But in any case the
reason is easy. Limestone is a sedimentary rock laid down in layers, and the
limestone that makes up the head is better quality.
Doug
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> snip
>
> Just Thought I Should Mention It
I think now I see your point.
- the flood was local event and people were scattered, but they just spread the story of the
"Great flood" to other cultures ...
this surely also eliminates the problem with the languages and the differences in the
appearance of the people from different races as the refugees will most probably accept the
local language and only after few generations of mixed marriages there will be no big
difference in the appearance ...
this is a good explanation of why the myth is very much alike all over the world and it does
not contradict to the basic theory of the spreading of the people few million years ago ...
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> In article <38413ADA...@ele.tue.nl>, j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl says...
> >
> > the point supporting the genuine origin is the lack of 'significant (if any) profit'
> > for the museum and the collector, as well as the large number of stones in each
> > collection (more than 100,000 ?).
> >
> Why should we believe this figure? But in any case, obsession makes people do
> strange things.
>
good point.
especially if the pictures are easy to make ... I think the stones that are proved to be
fake are made by using dentist's instruments ... and the pictures are so primitive that it
wouldn't take much time to make one of them.
Just for reference - I've seen a wooden cross (about 20x20 sm.) covered with more that 100
scenes from the Bible. The people were so tiny but, when you look carefully you can see
their eyes ... etc.. The man that have made this cross (few centuries ago) didn't finish
it because he became almost fully blind, so another one finished his work ... The hole
work have taken many years ...
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> On Sun, 28 Nov Jeliazko Batchvarov <j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> > just one more question:
> > - how the different races are explained by the theory of the great flood in the Black sea? -
> > 7,500 years are surely not enough to make the people so different ...
>
> Ahhhh when you say race what are you talking about?
>
> There is no such thing as a different race when we refer to
> humans. What ever you wish to say is a different "race" black, white, Jew,
> Chinese etc. are all human.
they are all humans but they don't look exactly the same - do you think that 7500 years (acctually
much less) are enough to produce such a difference?
>
>
> > and following this thought - how about the different languages? surely there is no connection
> > between hebrew and chinese, ...!?
>
> Between Chinese there are over 1000 version of it unified by a
> common written language.
>
> In Italy there are different dialects as well as German and they
> come from the same root...
>
> snip
>
> Just Thought I Should Mention It
yes, but the difference between chinese and italian is not like difference between dialects - there
are basic difference in the way of thinking if you like ... The eastern languages are based on
pictorial representation, and the speaking is rather different in the type of sounds they use ...
in the western culture each sign is one letter (you know that:-) ... even the old egyptian symbols
are - one symbol = one letter. Not to mention the old "wedge writing" (hope the translation is
correct) where again we have one symbol = one letter representation.
I don't know about any "east type" of writing found in Europe, Africa ... not sure about India
(which might be a link).
Jerry
>
> in the western culture each sign is one letter (you know that:-) ... even
> the old egyptian symbols are - one symbol = one letter. Not to mention the
> old "wedge writing" (hope the translation is correct) where again we have
> one symbol = one letter representation.
LOL! So, why is the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet the Ox? Hint:
Writing begins as ideographic pictures of the idea one wishes to
communicate. Letters for sounds comes later.
--
Jerry
jbr...@richmond.infi.net
When I was partially sage I rose merry.
But that thyme is past.
Jeliazko Batchvarov
> Jeliazko Batchvarov <j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl> wrote:
>
> >
> > in the western culture each sign is one letter (you know that:-) ... even
> > the old egyptian symbols are - one symbol = one letter. Not to mention the
> > old "wedge writing" (hope the translation is correct) where again we have
> > one symbol = one letter representation.
>
> LOL! So, why is the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet the Ox? Hint:
> Writing begins as ideographic pictures of the idea one wishes to
> communicate. Letters for sounds comes later.
>
everybody knows that.
The issue here is the theory of a flood in the Black sea region in 7500 BC and
in this case - whether it is possible, if the people were scattered from one
area, to have such big language differences developed for such short period of
time (less than 7500 years).
P.S. what does "LOL" mean? - good or bad, doesn't matter - I often see it (and
many other strange abbreviations) in NG messages and want to know its meaning
...
Robert ASF.
snip
> P.S. what does "LOL" mean? - good or bad, doesn't matter - I often see it (and
> many other strange abbreviations) in NG messages and want to know its meaning
Some strange terms you may see and not understand...
AFAIK - As Far As I Know
AIUI: As I Understand It
BTDT: Been There. Done That.
BTW - By The Way
FWIW - For What It's Worth
FYI - For Your Information
HAND: Have A Nice Day.
HTH: Hope This Helps
IANAL: I Am Not A Lawyer (but)...
IIRC - If I Recall (Remember) Correctly
IMO - In My Opinion
IMHO: In My Humble/Honest Opinion
IMNSHO - In My Not So Humble Opinion
IOW - In Other Words
JIC - Just In Case
LOL - Laughing Out Loud
ROF - Rolling On Floor
ROTFL - Rolling On The Floor Laughing
ROTFL<MAO> - Rolling On The Floor Laughing <My Ass Off>
RTFM - Read The F*cking Manual!
RTFM - Read The FAQ Man!
TIA: Thanks In Advance
TTBOMK: To The Best Of My Knowledge
WADR: With All Due Respect...
YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary
daryle Steffen
Chinelo Azibo
self's {inner working} to be having this kind of mute disscussion.
mj...@webtv.net
mary Eddleman
our earth was filled with birth pangs too
we have such a little grasp of the hugeness of the space around us
as a drop of water on your finger
is the earth in space
land masses diividing
boiling volcanos
ice
rocks falling out of the sky
huge chunks
man was a small shrew like creature
living in little cracks in the rocks
mary Eddleman
riding along in the falling snow and ice
what if the chunks of rock followed by ice sprinkles
hitting the earth came from a world destroyed
our old world
dropping parts of it on earth
noahs ark was a ship
the old earth
mars maybe
but water based
needing water
Jeliazko Batchvarov
danderso...@notsisna.com
<j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl> wrote:
>
>this rise another question - why anyone would build a city so high in the mountain?
>besides, can anyone say what is the height of the biggest ancient cities in South
>America? (2-3,000m I think !?) and the population I think was about 10-20,000 people?
>or more? I don't see any reason to build cities so high in the mountain ...
Just thought I'd mention that the cities in the Andes could not have
been built before the mountains rose because the cities follow the
terrain in a fashion that was clearly designed for the contours of the
sites. They could not have been built on level ground.
Dwane
Jeliazko Batchvarov
I agree and now when I think of it again - no city will 'survive' such rise of a mountain
...
emch, 2000
emch, 2000
COM"ON.I MEAN IT:S COMMON KNOWLEDGE AT THIS PT. THAT CHICKEN
MCNUGGETS MOLECULAR STRUCTERE IS THE SAME BASIC CONSISTENCY OF
DINO---VOMIT.,THUS TRANSLATING THE THEORY OF THE BASIC COMPONENTS IN
THE NOW IN-FAMOUS-(DINO-BACON BURGER).
Jerry
>
> The issue here is the theory of a flood in the Black sea region in 7500 BC and
> in this case - whether it is possible, if the people were scattered from one
> area, to have such big language differences developed for such short period of
> time (less than 7500 years).
I think so, considering the changes in English that happened only since
Chaucer. Then, we have French, Spanish, etc, all from Latin, in less
than 1500 years.
It seems just about everybody has some kind of flood or "crossing"
story, often of crossing a body of water to reach their ancestral lands.
Probably, this objectively happened to them all. The Mayflower is
another such myth.
LOL? Just laughing out loud.
Jerry
OTOH, they may have been built on an angle so that they would be right
after the risings.
Jeliazko Batchvarov <j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl> wrote:
>
> > Just thought I'd mention that the cities in the Andes could not have
> > been built before the mountains rose because the cities follow the
> > terrain in a fashion that was clearly designed for the contours of the
> > sites. They could not have been built on level ground. Dwane
>
> I agree and now when I think of it again - no city will 'survive' such
> rise of a mountain ...
ghos...@my-deja.com
Doug Weller <dwe...@ramtops.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <81q2ro$ug4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ghos...@my-deja.com
says...
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > > technology]. Plato's story of Atlantis says that they processed
> > > > extracts from fruits which sounds like vitamins. Ancient texts
from
> > > > Egypt say that the great stones to build the pyramids were
levitated
> > by
> > > > the Priests of On and made to fly the distance of a bow shot.
> > >
> > I read that text about the pyramids in an old ufo book called Flying
> > Saucers have landed.
>
> In other words, no citation to a genuine Egyptian text.
>
The citation to a genuine Egyptian text is in this book. I also highly
recommend the Desmond Leslie half of this book if you are interested in
other citations to ancient texts; the book is full of ancient text
references.
>
>
> > > Can you provide a citation for these texts? And extracts from
fruits
> > sounds like
> > > juice. Which book is this in?
> > >The reference about the fruit extracts is from a study of Atlantis
I
> > saw on TV either on the Discovery Channel or TLC. I believe it
refered
> > to something more important then juice by the way it was stated;
> > something like the essence of foods.
>
> Convince me. Find it in Plato. Library.
> >
> > (Extra
> > > > terrestrial technology can levitate UFOs and probably stones
too.)
> > > > Cities near Pakistan were found with clay and stones melted with
the
> > > > heat of a thermonuclear blast which tends to verify the stories
of
> > wars
> > > > of flying aircraft and terrible weapons in the ancient Indian
texts.
> > >
> > > Citation, other than 1 'newspaper' report, please.
> > >
> > http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/hamilton/ancientaircraft_nf.shtml
>
> Oh, and not Childress's channelled stuff either, please. Does your
religion
> allow you to accept this sort of thing? The bit about Mohenjo-Daro is
full of lies and ignorance, even to the extent of not knowing when it
was excavated.
> And English translations of stuff where no one can find the originals.
Pull the
> other one.
> This bit:
> In the temple at Abydios, she photographed a wall panel in a section
where an overlaying panel with Egyptian heiroglyphics crumbled and fell,
revealing an older panel beneath it. This older panel, shown below,
contains embossed images of what appear to be ancient aircraft.
>
> As is well known, the panel did crumble, leaving a palimpsest, ie
remains of the new and of the old. That is NOT one panel that is
pictured. Anyone who thinks
> that we wouldn't see archaeological remains of the technology needed
for helicopters and planes hasn't a clue.
>
> --
> Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
> Submissions to: sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
> Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk
> Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
ghos...@my-deja.com
levitate pyramid stones, there is a newly rediscovered energy form that
matches what ancient texts refer to. A man named Pavlita developed
devices that charge up on this energy; today's scientists do not
understand why they work. This is frontier science. He got the designs
for these devices from very ancient texts. Check out these websites:
http://www.keelynet.com/biology/pavlita1.txt
http://www.keelynet.com/biology/pavlita2.txt
http://lateralthinking.com/psycho.html http://abduct.com/aaer/b38.htm
In article <MPG.12a9bd177...@news.btinternet.com>,
Doug Weller <dwe...@ramtops.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <81k5rt$44r$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ghos...@my-deja.com
says...
> >
> > In the first place the methods of dating past objects have a
sizeable
> > margin of error. If there really was a flood, that mixed-up the
earth
> > layers and that makes dating past objects even harder. The carbon
14
> > dating process is even questionable; a living mollusk was carbon
dated
> > at thousands of years old, this indicates that we don't understand
> > everything about carbon 14.
>
> No, this shows you don't know anything about Carbon 14. This
'reservoir effect'
> is well known.
>
> And the layers aren't mixed up.
>
> Much of the ages that they put on ancient
> > objects are guesswork with a sizeable margin of error. I saw one
theory
> > that put the age of the sphinx at around 12,000 years. The
Mahabharata
> > stories come from around 15,000 years, they say.
>
> The geologist (Robert Schoch) who looked at the Sphinx said 7000 years
or more.
> West says 12000 and links it to Mars. Other geologists say it is much
more
> recent, looking at the same evidence.
>
> The geaneology in the
> > Bible is accurate as written.
>
> That's just an assertion. There is plenty of evidence that it is
wrong. But
> then, if you are going to believe the Bible literally, you'd better
look at what
> else you've posted!
> > These ancient advanced civilizations that built stone buildings with
> > stones weighing 200 tons or more did have a technology unknown to
us; we
> > could not build those buildings today.
>
> No, we could built them today, if we wanted to. Look at my web page
(url in
> sig) for the bit about the Baalbek stones.
>
> > technology]. Plato's story of Atlantis says that they processed
> > extracts from fruits which sounds like vitamins. Ancient texts from
> > Egypt say that the great stones to build the pyramids were levitated
by
> > the Priests of On and made to fly the distance of a bow shot.
>
> Can you provide a citation for these texts? And extracts from fruits
sounds like
> juice. Which book is this in?
> (Extra
> > terrestrial technology can levitate UFOs and probably stones too.)
> > Cities near Pakistan were found with clay and stones melted with the
> > heat of a thermonuclear blast which tends to verify the stories of
wars
> > of flying aircraft and terrible weapons in the ancient Indian texts.
>
> Citation, other than 1 'newspaper' report, please.
>
> > The Bible is true as written, but the problems come when people
> > misinterpret what they read in it.
>
> Ah, you can get away with anything with this approach.
Clay Del Campo
for humans.But,it was an meteorite,it's completly logical!A huge
meteorite crashed in Arizona(or whatever,that's why it's there)and the
explosion killed most of the dinosaurs,the rest died from the coldness
causing plants to die which made plant eaters die which made meat eaters
die.That's why early humans lived during the ice age because they came
after the mammals whom came after the dinosaurs.Those humans came from
developed monkeys because they weren't smart and there wasn't many to
live for those times to them.Most of them died and most of them traveled
develiping in other places throughout Africa,Asia,Eroupe,and
Australia.But no place near Anctartica.Back here in these 2 continents
in America.Animals lived like the dodos and tigers.Those animals
switched places from on continent to another,when suddenly a peice of
Central America moved and sank.These caused both continents to be
seperated for a long period of time til another peice rised from the
pacific ocean connecting both continents once again after Europeans
developed and slaved Asia which was after the Atlantians wen't to Africa
and died because of a mysterious reason.Since Asians didn't like
Europeans slaving them they moved onto the bridge connecting Asia and
North America which sank from melting glaciers.Asians became indians in
America,and most of them argued and agreed to travel down to South
America causing a war between them.After the war,the Pilgrims and
Settlers came pushing out all the indians into a small spot.That's when
the Spains attacked the South Americans and created"Mexico".That's when
Aficans and South Americans became slaves before wars and states where
created and found.
SBV...@webtv.net
asteroid and you just got off the idea of Noah's ark!!!!
George Grover
the planet off so they could make more of those corn circles and put a
species there that they could toy around with for a while although I
feel that the case of betty and barney hill is an excellent example of
how aliens like to work however I know that one alien by the name of
clinton has enjoyed his chance to tinker with us all
Doug Weller
>
> In article <MPG.12ab3d6c3...@news.btinternet.com>,
> Doug Weller <dwe...@ramtops.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <81q2ro$ug4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ghos...@my-deja.com
> says...
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > technology]. Plato's story of Atlantis says that they processed
> > > > > extracts from fruits which sounds like vitamins. Ancient texts
> from
> > > > > Egypt say that the great stones to build the pyramids were
> levitated
> > > by
> > > > > the Priests of On and made to fly the distance of a bow shot.
> > > >
> > > Saucers have landed.
> >
> > In other words, no citation to a genuine Egyptian text.
> >
> The citation to a genuine Egyptian text is in this book.
>
Doug
--
Doug Weller member of moderation panel sci.archaeology.moderated
Doug Weller
> If you are interested in ancient technology that may have been used to
> levitate pyramid stones, there is a newly rediscovered energy form that
> matches what ancient texts refer to. A man named Pavlita developed
> devices that charge up on this energy; today's scientists do not
> understand why they work. This is frontier science. He got the designs
> for these devices from very ancient texts. Check out these websites:
> http://www.keelynet.com/biology/pavlita1.txt
> http://www.keelynet.com/biology/pavlita2.txt
> http://lateralthinking.com/psycho.html http://abduct.com/aaer/b38.htm
>
none of it has panned out. It's not frontier science, it's not science. It's
smoke and mirrors (oh, and web pages).
Jerry
> If you are interested in ancient technology that may have been used to
> levitate pyramid stones,
It's called rope.
John Clark
need for any mind breaking research, he merely used your brain as a
source for most of his novels. Again,your brilliance astonishes me.
ghos...@my-deja.com
Doug Weller <dwe...@ramtops.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <8298fi$lt4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ghos...@my-deja.com
says...
to
that
> > matches what ancient texts refer to. A man named Pavlita developed
> > devices that charge up on this energy; today's scientists do not
> > understand why they work. This is frontier science. He got the
designs
> > for these devices from very ancient texts. Check out these
websites:
> > http://www.keelynet.com/biology/pavlita1.txt
> > http://www.keelynet.com/biology/pavlita2.txt
> > http://lateralthinking.com/psycho.html
http://abduct.com/aaer/b38.htm
> >
> Pavlita, Kirlian, psycho-tronic, whatever jazzy sounding name itmight
have,
> none of it has panned out. It's not frontier science, it's not
science. It's
> smoke and mirrors (oh, and web pages).
>
right now. It's being documented in the laboratory under controlled
experimental conditions. Archeology is guesswork compared to real
sciences like chemistry and physics. Archeology with its educated
guesses about the past is smoke and mirrors if you consider some of the
theories in archeology which can't be tested because it involves the
past. An archeologist that is trained to guess at the past is not fit
to even comment on real science that can be tested and proven in the
laboratory.
> --
> Doug Weller member of moderation panel sci.archaeology.moderated
> Submissions to: sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
> Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk
> Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details
>
ghos...@my-deja.com
time finding it. Desmond Leslie lived in England and was a known
researcher of anxient texts in the 1950s; if you want many ancient text
references, research his work.
It might be easy for an archeologist to talk about building the
pyramids, but it's not easy for a building specialist to consider doing
it. I have read of and heard builders on TV who have indicated that
they could not do it. 200 ton stones laid to an accuracy of 100th of an
inch; you can't pass a razor blade between stones in South America. Our
large cranes could move the stones but the building of the pyramid would
take hundreds of years, said one building expert; there are like close
to a million great stones. Our cranes would take a lot of time to lay
the stones with such accuracy, if you could do it at all and that is
doubtful.
In article <MPG.12b33fcd1...@news.btinternet.com>,
Doug Weller <dwe...@ramtops.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <8297f8$l86$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ghos...@my-deja.com
says...
> >
> > In article <MPG.12ab3d6c3...@news.btinternet.com>,
> > Doug Weller <dwe...@ramtops.co.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <81q2ro$ug4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ghos...@my-deja.com
> > says...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > technology]. Plato's story of Atlantis says that they
processed
> > > > > > extracts from fruits which sounds like vitamins. Ancient
texts
> > from
> > > > > > Egypt say that the great stones to build the pyramids were
> > levitated
> > > > by
> > > > > > the Priests of On and made to fly the distance of a bow
shot.
> > > > >
> > > > I read that text about the pyramids in an old ufo book called
Flying
> > > > Saucers have landed.
> > >
> > > In other words, no citation to a genuine Egyptian text.
> > >
> > The citation to a genuine Egyptian text is in this book.
> >
> Then cite it! I'm not chasing a nonexistent text.
>
> Doug
rOOth
> The cities were built on gimbals and compensated when the land tilted.
> OTOH, they may have been built on an angle so that they would be right
> after the risings.
>
> Jeliazko Batchvarov <j.s.bat...@ele.tue.nl> wrote:
>
> >
> > > Just thought I'd mention that the cities in the Andes could not have
> > > been built before the mountains rose because the cities follow the
> > > terrain in a fashion that was clearly designed for the contours of the
> > > sites. They could not have been built on level ground. Dwane
> >
> > I agree and now when I think of it again - no city will 'survive' such
> > rise of a mountain ...
>
> --
> Jerry
> jbr...@richmond.infi.net
> When I was partially sage I rose merry.
> But that thyme is past.
Isn't their construction mindbendingly exact fit? There are several reasons
why a city would be built so far up in the mountains, just off top of head:
- the air and cola leaf gave higher intelligence
- there was predators down further
- the land was more fertile
- the valleys were waterlogged
- t.rex couldn't climp up slopes
- they wanted to be as near their gods as possible
- best method of protection against attackers
... what interests me at the moment is why we're hairless : i mean was it cos
an 'alien'/god came and showed us clothing? Or was it cos the only way we
survived was to go underground... but then there's a eyeless mole (got 'im in
a yowie) that never sees light and burrows through sand all day, so that
quashed that.
--
-r-O-O-t-h-
"i still love you" (f)
John F. Winston
> In article <MPG.12b342154...@news.btinternet.com>,
> Doug Weller <dwe...@ramtops.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <8298fi$lt4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ghos...@my-deja.com
> says...
> > > If you are interested in ancient technology that may have been used
> to
> > > levitate pyramid stones, there is a newly rediscovered energy form
> that
> > > matches what ancient texts refer to. A man named Pavlita developed
> > > devices that charge up on this energy; today's scientists do not
> > > understand why they work. This is frontier science. He got the
> designs
> > > for these devices from very ancient texts. Check out these
> websites:
> > > http://www.keelynet.com/biology/pavlita1.txt
> > > http://www.keelynet.com/biology/pavlita2.txt
> > > http://lateralthinking.com/psycho.html
> http://abduct.com/aaer/b38.htm
JW That is very interesting to me. Who knows, maybe we could learn
something from people like that.
Doug Weller
> It might be easy for an archeologist to talk about building the
> pyramids, but it's not easy for a building specialist to consider doing
> it. I have read of and heard builders on TV who have indicated that
> they could not do it. 200 ton stones laid to an accuracy of 100th of an
> inch; you can't pass a razor blade between stones in South America. Our
> large cranes could move the stones but the building of the pyramid would
> take hundreds of years, said one building expert; there are like close
> to a million great stones. Our cranes would take a lot of time to lay
> the stones with such accuracy, if you could do it at all and that is
> doubtful.
>
>
number of large stones wrong, let alone the accuracy. As for your building
experts:
See:
http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/0699feat.html
Here you will find an interesting article by Craig Smith in the June issue of
Civil Engineering Magazine. The article is based on an analysis of the Great
Pyramid by a team of construction managers and engineers working in
co-operation with Dr Mark Lehner.
Doug Weller
>
> >It is frontier science being actively investigated by real scientists
> right now. It's being documented in the laboratory under controlled
> experimental conditions. Archeology is guesswork compared to real
> sciences like chemistry and physics. Archeology with its educated
> guesses about the past is smoke and mirrors if you consider some of the
> theories in archeology which can't be tested because it involves the
> past. An archeologist that is trained to guess at the past is not fit
> to even comment on real science that can be tested and proven in the
> laboratory.
>
>
giving us evidence about this documentation? Because it certainly isn't on the
web, the web stuff is old now. And tell us who these 'real scientists' are.
I won't hold my breath.
ghos...@my-deja.com
>
> Yawn. Rather than slag off something you don't know much about, how
about
> giving us evidence about this documentation? Because it certainly
isn't on the
> web, the web stuff is old now. And tell us who these 'real scientists'
are.
>The names of real scientist and their results that researched this
energy in the 1960s is in the book Psychic Discoveries Behind The Iron
Curtain - : http://abduct.com/aaer/b38.htm More modern Scientists that
are investigating it are found in the book,
"Future Science: Life energies and the Physics of Paranormal Phenomena,
by John White and Stanley Krippner, (Doubleday /Anchor).
There is much about it on the web; you need to look in Web pages
involved with Kirlian Photography, paranormal, parapsychology and
psychic phenomena. This energy is called psychotronic energy by
Czechoslavakians, Bioplasmic energy by Russians and Chi by Chinese.It is
the link between the non-physical mind and
the physical body. This energy form can account for all of the effects
that UFOs have been observed to produce. Kirlian Photography did
show that when an organism is placed in an alternating electric field, a
glowing energy field of changing colors can be seen around it. This
energy field around a human
body is called an Aura. The Aura has been observed to behave as if
there is some unknown force
holding it together. (The Aura itself behaves like an organism.) It is
this unknown force holding it
together that is psychotronic energy. Scientists have shielded against
and allowed for all of the known
energy forms and determined that a new way that one system may act on
another has now been found. This really is a newly (rediscovered)
energy form. It has an inverse law of diminishing with distance unlike
all the other energies that have an inverse squared law. - reference,
Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain. A Russian astrophysicist
named Nicolai Kozyrev has proven experimentally
that this energy form affects inertial type gyroscopic forces, and
gravity is an inertial force. One of those Sanskrit texts cited in
the book Fying Saucers Have Landed said that the mode of propulsion for
one of those ancient aircraft was, The raising of the personal
vibrations until gravity is overcome. Personal vibrations is another
way of saying human Aura. They may have intensified their personal Aura
vibrations by resonance using some type of psychotronic generators.
The same way in which men were said to have levitated, is supposed to be
like the propulsion that one of those ancient aircraft was said to have
had in the sanskrit text; the type of vimana that flew into outer space.
There are witnesses that have testified that they witnessed human
levitation (although it is very rare) and the Aura energy is what is
suspected of causing this levitation.
ghos...@my-deja.com
matter. An archeologist on TV said that these buildings are high up in
the Andes where the heavy stones would have had to be dragged long
distances up steep inclines in air so thin most people would need
oxygen. Also the air is so thin that you can't grow food to support a
labor force to give them energy to drag the stones. Those buildings are
evidence of a superior technology that was used to build them; manpower,
it seems, could not do the job.
In article <MPG.12b62b42c...@news.btinternet.com>,
> --
> Doug Weller member of moderation panel sci.archaeology.moderated
> Submissions to: sci-archaeol...@medieval.org
> Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk
> Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details
>
danderso...@notsisna.com
>The names of real scientist and their results that researched this
>energy in the 1960s is in the book Psychic Discoveries Behind The Iron
>Curtain - : http://abduct.com/aaer/b38.htm More modern Scientists that
>are investigating it are found in the book,
>"Future Science: Life energies and the Physics of Paranormal Phenomena,
>by John White and Stanley Krippner, (Doubleday /Anchor).
>There is much about it on the web; you need to look in Web pages
>involved with Kirlian Photography, paranormal, parapsychology and
>psychic phenomena. This energy is called psychotronic energy by
>Czechoslavakians, Bioplasmic energy by Russians and Chi by Chinese.It is
>the link between the non-physical mind and
>the physical body. This energy form can account for all of the effects
>that UFOs have been observed to produce. Kirlian Photography did
>show that when an organism is placed in an alternating electric field, a
>glowing energy field of changing colors can be seen around it. This
>energy field around a human
>body is called an Aura.
If ANY conductive or semi-conductive object is place in the electic
field, you will get an "aura". I've seen Kirlian photos of coins and
pins with "auras" around them.
> The Aura has been observed to behave as if
>there is some unknown force
>holding it together. (The Aura itself behaves like an organism.) It is
>this unknown force holding it
>together that is psychotronic energy.
Or electro-magnetic energy.
> Scientists have shielded against
>and allowed for all of the known
> energy forms and determined that a new way that one system may act on
> another has now been found.
How can you say that they have "shielded" against all known forms of
energy, when you know that the picture is taken in an electric field?
Don't you think an electric field is a form of energy?
I haven't read a lot about it, but what I have read suggests that the
aura is simply the result of electric current being generated in the
object by electro-magnetic induction, which is not at all mysterious.
The appearance of the aura is determined by the conductivity of the
object. As a result, a persons Kirlian aura will vary depending on
their conductivity, which varies with the relative moisture in the
skin.
> This really is a newly (rediscovered)
> energy form. It has an inverse law of diminishing with distance unlike
> all the other energies that have an inverse squared law. - reference,
>Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain.
If this is true then you would expect the aura to fade very gradually
as you look farther away from the object, but this is not the case. If
you look at the pictures, the aura does not fade out gradually at all.
It fades about as abruptly as you would expect for an electro-magnetic
effect.
> A Russian astrophysicist
>named Nicolai Kozyrev has proven experimentally
> that this energy form affects inertial type gyroscopic forces, and
> gravity is an inertial force. One of those Sanskrit texts cited in
>the book Fying Saucers Have Landed said that the mode of propulsion for
>one of those ancient aircraft was, The raising of the personal
>vibrations until gravity is overcome.
"Flying Saucers Have Landed"? Now there's a reliable reference.
> Personal vibrations is another
>way of saying human Aura.
That is a total conjecture.
> They may have intensified their personal Aura
>vibrations by resonance using some type of psychotronic generators.
>The same way in which men were said to have levitated, is supposed to be
>like the propulsion that one of those ancient aircraft was said to have
>had in the sanskrit text; the type of vimana that flew into outer space.
>There are witnesses that have testified that they witnessed human
>levitation (although it is very rare) and the Aura energy is what is
>suspected of causing this levitation.
By the author of the book. I haven't seen these particular books, but
I know that you can't believe everything you read, especially in books
about the paranormal.
Nobody has ever demonstrated the ability to levitate with any sort of
psychic power under controlled conditions, though millions of people
have seen it done by magicians using trickery. If anyone could do it,
they should have proven it by now.
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
Dwane
ghos...@my-deja.com
>
> If ANY conductive or semi-conductive object is place in the electic
> field, you will get an "aura". I've seen Kirlian photos of coins and
> pins with "auras" around them.
>
The auras around living organisms have veins and pathways moving through
them and changing patterns and colors that behave like a plasma organism
that is alive. This energy Aura around humans changes colors and shapes
as the person changes his thoughts and feelings. When phsyic healers
concentrate on healing the energy focuses into a bright beam from his
hand. Inanimate semiconductive objects have a dead aura compared to a
living aura around organisms. If part of a leaf is cut off, the same
aura pattern is seen at the amputated site as if it was whole. The
human aura flares at all of the accupuncture points of the Chinese.
The Aura has been observed to behave as if
> >there is some unknown force
> >holding it together. (The Aura itself behaves like an organism.) It
is
> >this unknown force holding it
> >together that is psychotronic energy.
>
> Or electro-magnetic energy.
>The Aura is made up of changing elecric and magnetic fields and
elecromagnetic energy, but it behaves like there is some other unifying
force that causes it to change with a person's thoughts and feelings and
behave like an organism; it does not behave like any other type of
elecromagnetic plasma. It is as if a mental energy is mixed with it and
is controlling it.
> > Scientists have shielded against
> >and allowed for all of the known
> > energy forms and determined that a new way that one system may act
on
> > another has now been found.
>
> How can you say that they have "shielded" against all known forms of
> energy, when you know that the picture is taken in an electric field?
This was done in measuring the Auras effect on other systems and not
during Kirlian photography. Psychic healers transmit aura energy to
patients and they heal rapidly. Also the Aura is suspected of being the
energy medium of telepathy. All shielding of such transmissions of Aura
energy indicate that it is a new enerygy form.
Don't you think an electric field is a form of energy?
> I haven't read a lot about it, but what I have read suggests that the
> aura is simply the result of electric current being generated in the
> object by electro-magnetic induction, which is not at all mysterious.
>
The way it behaves around organisms and humans in response to thoughts
and feelings is mysterious. Also the relation to accupuncture points is
mysterious; it does not behave like any other plasma, something else is
there, some unifying force newly discovered.
>
> > This really is a newly (rediscovered)
> > energy form. It has an inverse law of diminishing with distance
unlike
> > all the other energies that have an inverse squared law. -
reference,
> >Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain.
>
> If this is true then you would expect the aura to fade very gradually
> as you look farther away from the object, but this is not the case. If
>
When it is transmitted its strength fades gradually. I am not referring
to the light generated by Kirlian Photgraphs. This was determined in
other experiments.
>
> > A Russian astrophysicist
> >named Nicolai Kozyrev has proven experimentally
> > that this energy form affects inertial type gyroscopic forces, and
> > gravity is an inertial force. One of those Sanskrit texts cited in
> >the book Fying Saucers Have Landed said that the mode of propulsion
for
> >one of those ancient aircraft was, The raising of the personal
> >vibrations until gravity is overcome.
>
> "Flying Saucers Have Landed"? Now there's a reliable reference.
> Half of the book is written by a serious researcher of ancient texts.
The ancient text reference mentioned is a real reference. The other
half of the book is written by Adamski a hoaxer; ignore that half.
> > Personal vibrations is another
> >way of saying human Aura.
>
> That is a total conjecture.
>That is how you dicover something new; starts with conjecture. Might
be true conjecture!
> > They may have intensified their personal Aura
> >vibrations by resonance using some type of psychotronic generators.
> >The same way in which men were said to have levitated, is supposed to
be
> >like the propulsion that one of those ancient aircraft was said to
have
> >had in the sanskrit text; the type of vimana that flew into outer
space.
> >There are witnesses that have testified that they witnessed human
> >levitation (although it is very rare) and the Aura energy is what is
> >suspected of causing this levitation.
>
> By the author of the book. I haven't seen these particular books, but
> I know that you can't believe everything you read, especially in books
> about the paranormal.
> That is true, you can't. But serious scientists have found an energy
effect now that gives hard explanations for some of the paranormal.
Some of the paranormal is a hoax. Some is not.
Nobody has ever demonstrated the ability to levitate with any sort of
>There was a man in England near the turn of the century that was
observed to do this and it was testified to by several witnesses. I
think his name was Daniel Dunglass Home, I read about this and saw a
report on TV about it. Levitation is the rarest of the psychic
abilities. You might find a report on this on the web somewhere.