Alien Agenda
nicholas
know.But what I would like explaining is what do they want
from us and should I start to be afraid?
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Male...@hot.net
<nicholas.th...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote:
>Whether or not there are aliens, grey or otherwise I don't
>know.But what I would like explaining is what do they want
>from us and should I start to be afraid?
Fear not as they are not here and there is no proof they ever were
here.
SkyKing
with abduction stories but we are all liars
you must be the biggest fucking moron on the planet
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
<Male...@hot.net> wrote in message news:397f4af4...@news.idsi.net...
Warman
>
> Whether or not there are aliens, grey or otherwise I don't
> know.But what I would like explaining is what do they want
> from us and should I start to be afraid?
Just out of curiosity...do you see dead people?
Warman
![--|-----<<<[ GoD ]>>>-----|--'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUaRWc0pH94thelxp0ZSGfc6VCXtPGSyORVQTVEBInaNgfdjg=s40-c)
--|-----<<<[ GoD ]>>>-----|--
some are helpful and peaceful
some are evil and destructive
others are simply indifferent
other's come here for re-supply
and many have a mixed agenda
they all have their own unique agenda
BTW: the world at present is governed by aliens
their agenda has nothing to do with the human will
and if you see an alien (of any form) it is recommended that you immediately kill it dead by any means at your disposal
nicholas wrote:
> Whether or not there are aliens, grey or otherwise I don't
> know.But what I would like explaining is what do they want
> from us and should I start to be afraid?
>
james...@my-deja.com
Not exactly a landslide. Besides, the fact that someone
believes something to be true does not necessarily make it
so.
> millions come forward
> with abduction stories but we are all liars
>
Typically, skeptics should refrain from calling someone a
liar, particularly when the claimant appears to be convinced
of their story. They will not hesitate to offer alternative
ideas, however, to try to explain these events, or in the case
of NewAge 'theories', they might pester the 'theorist' for
supporting arguments.
Still, I'm guessing that there is a certain number of claims
that _are_ outright lies. I'm talking about hoaxers, charlatains
and profiteers, not those who are just trying to come to terms
with an unusual, haunting memory (regardless of how it may have
manifested itself).
Jim Smith
> you must be the biggest fucking moron on the planet
>
> --
>
> SkyKing
> Sky...@blackvault.com
> "I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
SkyKing
...gee officer you don't smell beer on my breath, no I haven't been
drinking, you are not really hearing me slur right now either...
Yeah James, it's all a Jedi Mind trick. You are not reading this post right
now, you will tell people that aliens don't exsist, you will tell no one I
exsist. This never happened. It's all a mental delusion. Even though it's
never happened again.
SK
<james...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8lq3pj$2h6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <syMf5.14219$ga2.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "SkyKing" <Sky...@blackvault.com> wrote:
> > yeah that's it. 51% of the U.S. beleive aliens exsist,
>
> Not exactly a landslide. Besides, the fact that someone
> believes something to be true does not necessarily make it
> so.
>
> > millions come forward
> > with abduction stories but we are all liars
> >
snip
Male...@hot.net
wrote:
>yeah that's it. 51% of the U.S. beleive aliens exsist, millions come forward
>with abduction stories but we are all liars
Oh well that settles it then. There MUST be aliens visiting Earth!
(sarcasm off)
>you must be the biggest fucking moron on the planet
Wow, more lame facts...
><Male...@hot.net> wrote in message news:397f4af4...@news.idsi.net...
>> On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:51:22 -0700, nicholas
>> <nicholas.th...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >Whether or not there are aliens, grey or otherwise I don't
>> >know.But what I would like explaining is what do they want
>> >from us and should I start to be afraid?
>>
Male...@hot.net
<G...@gOd.GoD> wrote:
>there are many species of aliens visiting this planet
>some are helpful and peaceful
>some are evil and destructive
>others are simply indifferent
>other's come here for re-supply
>and many have a mixed agenda
>
>they all have their own unique agenda
>
>BTW: the world at present is governed by aliens
>their agenda has nothing to do with the human will
>and if you see an alien (of any form) it is recommended that you immediately kill it dead by any means at your disposal
Well folks, there you have it! Proof that aliens are here!
Thank you almighty god!
What a total moron....
>nicholas wrote:
>
>> Whether or not there are aliens, grey or otherwise I don't
>> know.But what I would like explaining is what do they want
>> from us and should I start to be afraid?
>>
Michael Davis
grow up. Well, at least most grow up. Some just find something else silly to
believe in.
SkyKing wrote:
> yeah that's it. 51% of the U.S. beleive aliens exsist, millions come forward
> with abduction stories but we are all liars
>
> you must be the biggest fucking moron on the planet
>
> --
>
> SkyKing
> Sky...@blackvault.com
> "I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
>
> <Male...@hot.net> wrote in message news:397f4af4...@news.idsi.net...
> > On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:51:22 -0700, nicholas
> > <nicholas.th...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > >Whether or not there are aliens, grey or otherwise I don't
> > >know.But what I would like explaining is what do they want
> > >from us and should I start to be afraid?
> >
james...@my-deja.com
"SkyKing" <Sky...@blackvault.com> wrote:
> OIC. Seeing is not believing. Neither is tasting, smelling or hearing.
>
> ...gee officer you don't smell beer on my breath, no I haven't been
> drinking, you are not really hearing me slur right now either...
>
> Yeah James, it's all a Jedi Mind trick. You are not reading this post
> right
> now, you will tell people that aliens don't exsist,
Actually, I've never really said that because I don't know
whether they exist or not. I've never seen one, nor have I
seen any of the vehicles that they are reported to pilot.
That's where I am.
Is it possible that intelligent life could evolve somewhere
other than earth? I don't see why not. Could it happen
close enough to the Sun that some of these folks might
venture here? Dunno. There is talk of building a huge
interferometer out in space -- I don't know how far along
these plans are, but such a device could provide some closure
to the argument, since it might be able to resolve the
existence of earthlike planets around nearby stars. BTW,
my own short list of possible targets:
TAU Ceti (11.9 lys)
82 Eri (19.8 lys)
SIG Dra (18.8 lys)
ETA Cas (19.4 lys)
61 Vir (27.8 lys)
LTT 4473 (30.1 lys)
ALP Men (33.1 lys)
Others might disagree. ZET Ret is about 39.5 lys out.
> you will tell no one I
> exsist. This never happened. It's all a mental delusion. Even though
> it's
> never happened again.
>
> SK
>
What's never happened again?
Jim Smith
SkyKing
<james...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8lsa5h$l62$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <eGag5.19210$ga2.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "SkyKing" <Sky...@blackvault.com> wrote:
> > OIC. Seeing is not believing. Neither is tasting, smelling or hearing.
snip
> > now, you will tell people that aliens don't exsist,
>
> Actually, I've never really said that because I don't know
> whether they exist or not. I've never seen one, nor have I
> seen any of the vehicles that they are reported to pilot.
> That's where I am.
that's fair.
>
> Is it possible that intelligent life could evolve somewhere
> other than earth? I don't see why not. Could it happen
> close enough to the Sun that some of these folks might
> venture here? Dunno. There is talk of building a huge
> interferometer out in space -- I don't know how far along
as far as I knew the interferometer is installed and in use. I don't know if
it's in civilan hands or mil ?
> these plans are, but such a device could provide some closure
> to the argument, since it might be able to resolve the
> existence of earthlike planets around nearby stars. BTW,
> my own short list of possible targets:
>
> TAU Ceti (11.9 lys)
> 82 Eri (19.8 lys)
> SIG Dra (18.8 lys)
> ETA Cas (19.4 lys)
> 61 Vir (27.8 lys)
> LTT 4473 (30.1 lys)
> ALP Men (33.1 lys)
>
> Others might disagree. ZET Ret is about 39.5 lys out.
ZET should really be a target. If alien life can travel within our life span
distance then they could travel from farther out. But I don't trust NASA
anymore than I trust the Pentagon. If they made all the data public I might
consider not cheating on my tax returns. But as it stands our gov't is
wasting my money.
snip
>
> Jim Smith
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
SkyKing
is told to us. I never knew of Santa Claus until my parents insisted he
brought the gifts and put them under the tree. When I explained what I saw
and tried to bring light to it by telling people I was was greeted with
venom. Also, are you assuming 51% of the U.S. that believe in aliens are all
children. You seem to compare this as replaced delusional beleif system.
However, one originates from the experiencer and one from society.
Then according to your theory I guess the same could be said for those who
believe that the governement is your friend.
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
"Michael Davis" <mdav...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:398190F8...@ix.netcom.com...
SkyKing
<Male...@hot.net> wrote in message
news:3981823a....@news.idsi.net...snip
> >you must be the biggest fucking moron on the planet
>
but still a fact
Michael Davis
addressed.
1. You no doubt had heard and seen all the popular culture descriptions and
depictions of aliens before whatever happened that convinced you that you
had seen one. Suddenly you thought you had evidence to back up what you had
been told. Much like a child who is told about Santa and then finds gifts
under the tree. To the child the gifts are evidence of Santa when in
reality they are only evidence of gifts. Funny lights in the sky are not
evidence of aliens. They are only evidence of funny lights.
2. Evidence witnessed solely with "our own eyes" is the least reliable type
of evidence. People tend to see what they want to see or what they think
they ought to be seeing.
3. The existence or nonexistence of anything can't be proven by taking a
public opinion poll.
4. No, I don't believe that people who think they see aliens are all
children. However I do believe that they have a childlike lack of critical
and skeptical thinking skills. They are willing to jump to the most
unlikely conclusions and believe the most outlandish theories without a
shred of hard evidence to back them up.
5. I don't trust the government either. In fact I don't trust them to be
smart enough to cover up something like alien visitors if they should ever
really come. That bunch of clowns can't even manage to cover up their own
financial and sexual irregularities.
Michael Davis
http://mdavis19.tripod.com
JOHN HOLT
time the government tests nucleur weapons the earths atmospere knocks
these spheres into our atmospheretherefore creating alien illusions
transformed by the static infiltration spawned by telekinetic energy due
to the presenceof global satellites via satellite.
SkyKing
me again.
[see below]
"Michael Davis" <mdav...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3981FC74...@ix.netcom.com...
> There are several important points in your last posting that should be
> addressed.
>
> 1. You no doubt had heard and seen all the popular culture descriptions
and
> depictions of aliens before whatever happened that convinced you that you
What I saw was in 1973. Way before any pictures were ever circulated about
what I saw and before even Whitley Streiber [or whatever his name is] came
out with his book. Even before his experience. If what you say is true, then
the aliens I saw should look more like ChewBaca !?
> had seen one. Suddenly you thought you had evidence to back up what you
had
> been told. Much like a child who is told about Santa and then finds gifts
> under the tree. To the child the gifts are evidence of Santa when in
> reality they are only evidence of gifts. Funny lights in the sky are not
> evidence of aliens. They are only evidence of funny lights.
I never saw funny lights. And what I saw didn't make me laugh at all. You're
obviously some spOok psych major who is trying to make a nutcase out of me.
It would be one thing if I was told what these aliens looked like, how they
moved, and how my experience played out. But I don't know of too many
parents who tell their young children what exactly the boogieman looks like,
how he moves, and that he comes in different colors and flies in a ship.
What I find less credible is your far reaching attempt to explain away
everyones experience as either psychosis, natural phenomenon or cultural
icons. You seem intelligent, and to offer such an outlandish connection
tells me you are trying very hard to disinform me and this community. EEFI.
>
> 2. Evidence witnessed solely with "our own eyes" is the least reliable
type
> of evidence. People tend to see what they want to see or what they think
> they ought to be seeing.
and 3rd party information is even more credible Mike. C'mon, who is kidding
who here ?
>
> 3. The existence or nonexistence of anything can't be proven by taking a
> public opinion poll.
How about a lie detector test ? Perhaps we should open ALL borders
worldwide, and raid the pentagon vaults ?
>
> 4. No, I don't believe that people who think they see aliens are all
> children. However I do believe that they have a childlike lack of critical
> and skeptical thinking skills. They are willing to jump to the most
> unlikely conclusions and believe the most outlandish theories without a
> shred of hard evidence to back them up.
Most people who are serious and on these messages boards have usually had a
very long time to think about their experience. As such I don't think anyone
would expose themselves to this kind of abuse just for curiosity sake.
Besides what do you have against people sharing what they saw on a newsgroup
? Even if it happens to be similar.
>
> 5. I don't trust the government either. In fact I don't trust them to be
> smart enough to cover up something like alien visitors if they should ever
> really come. That bunch of clowns can't even manage to cover up their own
> financial and sexual irregularities.
It's not the morons we see on TV that we elect who are the dangerous ones.
It's the ones that are in control of the real money that I worry about. $60
Billion annual military budget buys you a lot of disinformation. If Russia
had the resources we had they could convince their people that the world is
really flat again.
SkyKing
offering some real advice ?
<Male...@hot.net> wrote in message
news:398182e2....@news.idsi.net...
snip
>
> Well folks, there you have it! Proof that aliens are here!
> Thank you almighty god!
>
> What a total moron....
>
> >nicholas wrote:
> >
> >> Whether or not there are aliens, grey or otherwise I don't
> >> know.But what I would like explaining is what do they want
> >> from us and should I start to be afraid?
> >>
Male...@hot.net
<mdav...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>There are several important points in your last posting that should be
>addressed.
>
>1. You no doubt had heard and seen all the popular culture descriptions and
>depictions of aliens before whatever happened that convinced you that you
>had seen one. Suddenly you thought you had evidence to back up what you had
>been told. Much like a child who is told about Santa and then finds gifts
>under the tree. To the child the gifts are evidence of Santa when in
>reality they are only evidence of gifts. Funny lights in the sky are not
>evidence of aliens. They are only evidence of funny lights.
>
>2. Evidence witnessed solely with "our own eyes" is the least reliable type
>of evidence. People tend to see what they want to see or what they think
>they ought to be seeing.
>
>3. The existence or nonexistence of anything can't be proven by taking a
>public opinion poll.
>
>4. No, I don't believe that people who think they see aliens are all
>children. However I do believe that they have a childlike lack of critical
>and skeptical thinking skills. They are willing to jump to the most
>unlikely conclusions and believe the most outlandish theories without a
>shred of hard evidence to back them up.
>
>5. I don't trust the government either. In fact I don't trust them to be
>smart enough to cover up something like alien visitors if they should ever
>really come. That bunch of clowns can't even manage to cover up their own
>financial and sexual irregularities.
>
>Michael Davis
>http://mdavis19.tripod.com
Well said Michael!
Michael Davis
>
> What I saw was in 1973. Way before any pictures were ever circulated about
> what I saw and before even Whitley Streiber [or whatever his name is] came
> out with his book. Even before his experience. If what you say is true, then
> the aliens I saw should look more like ChewBaca !?
Star Wars came out in 77. You wouldn't have been seeing Chewbacas 73 unless
you can see the future as well as aliens. The common depictions of alien
beings in the popular media goes way back beyond Whitley Striber's
Communion. Strieber's aliens were a direct ripoff of Steven Spielburg's
aliens in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Spielburg based his
screenplay on descriptions of aliens in the popular book The UFO Experience
by J. Allen Hynek which was published in 72. I'll bet you read it.
>
>I never saw funny lights. And what I saw didn't make me laugh at all. You're
>obviously some spOok psych major who is trying to make a nutcase out of me.
>It would be one thing if I was told what these aliens looked like, how they
>
Let me get this straight. Because I think you are mistaken in your beliefs
I must be part of some vast conspiracy against you and your ilk. What a
combination of vanity and paranoia you are. News Flash SkyKing, you saucer
nuts aren't nearly important enough or credible enough that any
organization would bother persecuting you.
> >
> > 2. Evidence witnessed solely with "our own eyes" is the least reliable
> type
> > of evidence. People tend to see what they want to see or what they think
> > they ought to be seeing.
>
> and 3rd party information is even more credible Mike. C'mon, who is kidding
> who here ?
Eyewitness testimony is extremely unreliable as evidence. Next time you see
the aliens ask them to give you some hard evidence of their existence.
Anything will do, even a gum wrapper from another planet could be easily
and unambiguously identified as being of off-Earth origin by analyzing it's
isotopic makeup. In all the years that people claim to have been seeing
UFOs and aliens not one scrap of anything of off-Earth origin has ever been
recovered.
>
>
> Most people who are serious and on these messages boards have usually had a
> very long time to think about their experience. As such I don't think anyone
> would expose themselves to this kind of abuse just for curiosity sake.
> Besides what do you have against people sharing what they saw on a newsgroup
> ? Even if it happens to be similar.
In other words, you've had plenty of time to polish and embellish your
story. And the reason you expose yourself to this sort of abuse is because
you have a martyr complex and a messianic bent. You and your kind aren't
happy unless you think you are being persecuted for expressing your views.
>
>It's not the morons we see on TV that we elect who are the dangerous ones.
>It's the ones that are in control of the real money that I worry about. $60
>Billion annual military budget buys you a lot of disinformation. If Russia
>had the resources we had they could convince their people that the world is
>really flat again.
>
Your extreme paranoia about the government clouds your vision and
undermines your credibility. You seem to see conspiracies everywhere. There
is no compelling reason why the government would want to cover up evidence
of alien visitation. Especially if as you say a majority of Americans
already believe they are here. There is also no evidence that they would be
capable of covering it up.
Michael Davis
http://mdavis19.tripod.com
Male...@hot.net
Once again Michael, nice job! I agree completely.
On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:37:57 -0400, Michael Davis
<mdav...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>SkyKing wrote:
>
>>
>> What I saw was in 1973. Way before any pictures were ever circulated about
>> what I saw and before even Whitley Streiber [or whatever his name is] came
>> out with his book. Even before his experience. If what you say is true, then
>> the aliens I saw should look more like ChewBaca !?
>
>Star Wars came out in 77. You wouldn't have been seeing Chewbacas 73 unless
>you can see the future as well as aliens. The common depictions of alien
>beings in the popular media goes way back beyond Whitley Striber's
>Communion. Strieber's aliens were a direct ripoff of Steven Spielburg's
>aliens in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Spielburg based his
>screenplay on descriptions of aliens in the popular book The UFO Experience
>by J. Allen Hynek which was published in 72. I'll bet you read it.
>
>>
>>I never saw funny lights. And what I saw didn't make me laugh at all. You're
>>obviously some spOok psych major who is trying to make a nutcase out of me.
>>It would be one thing if I was told what these aliens looked like, how they
>>
>
>Let me get this straight. Because I think you are mistaken in your beliefs
>I must be part of some vast conspiracy against you and your ilk. What a
>combination of vanity and paranoia you are. News Flash SkyKing, you saucer
>nuts aren't nearly important enough or credible enough that any
>organization would bother persecuting you.
>
>> >
>> > 2. Evidence witnessed solely with "our own eyes" is the least reliable
>> type
>> > of evidence. People tend to see what they want to see or what they think
>> > they ought to be seeing.
>>
>> and 3rd party information is even more credible Mike. C'mon, who is kidding
>> who here ?
>
>Eyewitness testimony is extremely unreliable as evidence. Next time you see
>the aliens ask them to give you some hard evidence of their existence.
>Anything will do, even a gum wrapper from another planet could be easily
>and unambiguously identified as being of off-Earth origin by analyzing it's
>isotopic makeup. In all the years that people claim to have been seeing
>UFOs and aliens not one scrap of anything of off-Earth origin has ever been
>recovered.
>
>>
>>
>> Most people who are serious and on these messages boards have usually had a
>> very long time to think about their experience. As such I don't think anyone
>> would expose themselves to this kind of abuse just for curiosity sake.
>> Besides what do you have against people sharing what they saw on a newsgroup
>> ? Even if it happens to be similar.
>
>In other words, you've had plenty of time to polish and embellish your
>story. And the reason you expose yourself to this sort of abuse is because
>you have a martyr complex and a messianic bent. You and your kind aren't
>happy unless you think you are being persecuted for expressing your views.
>
>>
>>It's not the morons we see on TV that we elect who are the dangerous ones.
>>It's the ones that are in control of the real money that I worry about. $60
>>Billion annual military budget buys you a lot of disinformation. If Russia
>>had the resources we had they could convince their people that the world is
>>really flat again.
>>
>
SkyKing
"Michael Davis" <mdav...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:39830865...@ix.netcom.com...
> SkyKing wrote:
>
> >
> > What I saw was in 1973. Way before any pictures were ever circulated
about
> > what I saw and before even Whitley Streiber [or whatever his name is]
came
> > out with his book. Even before his experience. If what you say is true,
then
> > the aliens I saw should look more like ChewBaca !?
>
> Star Wars came out in 77. You wouldn't have been seeing Chewbacas 73
unless
> you can see the future as well as aliens. The common depictions of alien
> beings in the popular media goes way back beyond Whitley Striber's
> Communion. Strieber's aliens were a direct ripoff of Steven Spielburg's
> aliens in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Spielburg based his
> screenplay on descriptions of aliens in the popular book The UFO
Experience
> by J. Allen Hynek which was published in 72. I'll bet you read it.
>
Art imitating life. Your explanation doesn't make sense. How exactly would
that work, psychologically, the other way round ?
> >
> >I never saw funny lights. And what I saw didn't make me laugh at all.
You're
> >obviously some spOok psych major who is trying to make a nutcase out of
me.
> >It would be one thing if I was told what these aliens looked like, how
they
> >
>
> Let me get this straight. Because I think you are mistaken in your beliefs
> I must be part of some vast conspiracy against you and your ilk. What a
> combination of vanity and paranoia you are. News Flash SkyKing, you saucer
> nuts aren't nearly important enough or credible enough that any
> organization would bother persecuting you.
Never said conspiracy, never said it's my belief. I'm only stating theories
on what I saw. This is a discussion group isn't it. I'm sorry if you don't
like what you hear. But your explanation is classic sPoOk.
>
> > >
> > > 2. Evidence witnessed solely with "our own eyes" is the least reliable
> > type
> > > of evidence. People tend to see what they want to see or what they
think
> > > they ought to be seeing.
> >
> > and 3rd party information is even more credible Mike. C'mon, who is
kidding
> > who here ?
>
> Eyewitness testimony is extremely unreliable as evidence. Next time you
see
> the aliens ask them to give you some hard evidence of their existence.
> Anything will do, even a gum wrapper from another planet could be easily
> and unambiguously identified as being of off-Earth origin by analyzing
it's
> isotopic makeup. In all the years that people claim to have been seeing
> UFOs and aliens not one scrap of anything of off-Earth origin has ever
been
> recovered.
I'm not trying to prove anything to you. I'm just telling them like I see
them.
>
> >
> >
> > Most people who are serious and on these messages boards have usually
had a
> > very long time to think about their experience. As such I don't think
anyone
> > would expose themselves to this kind of abuse just for curiosity sake.
> > Besides what do you have against people sharing what they saw on a
newsgroup
> > ? Even if it happens to be similar.
>
> In other words, you've had plenty of time to polish and embellish your
> story. And the reason you expose yourself to this sort of abuse is because
> you have a martyr complex and a messianic bent. You and your kind aren't
> happy unless you think you are being persecuted for expressing your views.
I'm not interested in responses from spooks or debunkers. I'm interested in
responses from other abductees. But I'm glad you admit you dish out abuse
and nothing more of value. You said it yourself 'persecuted for expressing
your views'. But keep throwing out your blanket statements and
generalizations, like a fortune teller you will eventually be right.
>
> >
> >It's not the morons we see on TV that we elect who are the dangerous
ones.
> >It's the ones that are in control of the real money that I worry about.
$60
> >Billion annual military budget buys you a lot of disinformation. If
Russia
> >had the resources we had they could convince their people that the world
is
> >really flat again.
> >
>
> Your extreme paranoia about the government clouds your vision and
> undermines your credibility. You seem to see conspiracies everywhere.
There
> is no compelling reason why the government would want to cover up evidence
> of alien visitation. Especially if as you say a majority of Americans
> already believe they are here. There is also no evidence that they would
be
> capable of covering it up.
Evidence of it is one thing, common sense another. My credibility is
undermined in only your eyes because I refuse to look away from the truth. a
few examples. Vietnam was a CIA war since 1954, but the government isn't
hiding anything. Watergate. Whitewater. Plutonium plant in north Oregon
contaminating forests for miles. Contra. FBI's 'Carnivore' program. And
remember, the government is your friend.
I'm presenting what I saw in hopes someone can give me a plausable
explanation. What people like you give us is a reason and the means to look
away from what is at hand. "Don't look at the man behind the curtain, for I
am the great Oz." Is that right Mike.
>
> Michael Davis
> http://mdavis19.tripod.com
SkyKing
just want to get that straight from you, for the record.
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
<Male...@hot.net> wrote in message news:398363ed...@news.idsi.net...
>
> Once again Michael, nice job! I agree completely.
>
>
> On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:37:57 -0400, Michael Davis
> <mdav...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
snip
Male...@hot.net
wrote:
>So what you are saying is that all of these suposed abductees are liars ? I
>just want to get that straight from you, for the record.
No, I'm saying they are mistaken. They are having some type of
medical (mental or otherwise) condition or sleep condition that causes
them to believe they've been abducted. I believe that they truly
believe they've been taken by aliens. I'm not buying it.
Put that in your "record".
>SkyKing
>Sky...@blackvault.com
>"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
>
>
>
Michael Davis
-- BS before deleted.
>
> Evidence of it is one thing, common sense another. My credibility is
>
-- BS after deleted.
Thats right, you don't need no stinkin' evidence because you got your
common sense. That's just what I expected you to say.
You can stick a fork in SkyKing. He's done.
Michael Davis
SkyKing
possibilities like the other spooks. Possibilities and explanations that
could not possibly include anything that it looked like.
So if we suffered from this 'mental condition' at the time of our 'supposed'
abduction why haven't we suffered it since. Besides I was wide awake at the
time, not sleeping. And like I always say...
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
I'll put that in my record too.
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
<Male...@hot.net> wrote in message news:39843c9a...@news.idsi.net...
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:19:47 GMT, "SkyKing" <Sky...@blackvault.com>
> wrote:
>
> >So what you are saying is that all of these suposed abductees are liars ?
I
> >just want to get that straight from you, for the record.
>
> No, I'm saying they are mistaken. They are having some type of
> medical (mental or otherwise) condition or sleep condition that causes
> them to believe they've been abducted. I believe that they truly
> believe they've been taken by aliens. I'm not buying it.
>
> Put that in your "record".
>
>
> >SkyKing
> >Sky...@blackvault.com
> >"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
> >
> >
> >
SkyKing
an authority. But as done as you think I am there are many more ready to
step up to the plate. This could turn into a full time job for you spooks.
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
"Michael Davis" <mdav...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:39845C8D...@ix.netcom.com...
> SkyKing wrote:
>
> -- BS before deleted.
> >
> > Evidence of it is one thing, common sense another. My credibility is
> >
moonrose
goes to bed alone and unmarked and wakes up the next morning with
serious puncture wounds on the abdomen,something unusual has happened.
I also sustained a serious eye injury that the eye doctor insisted must
have been from something I poked behing my eyeball. As I denied
anything happening, he asked a lot of questions about me being a
battered wife as he knew something has happened that I wouldn't talk
about. When we do talk see what happens. If you don't understand and
nothing has happened to you that is great but please don't attack those
of us that know the reality in our own lives. Leave us to discuss and
comfort one another. We have nothing to gain from this. 99.9% will not
write a book or anything else to bring notoriety to ourselves and as
for spelling and typing errors. Try typing during a panic attack. We
cannot tell you why we can only tell you what. You who are unemotional
and intelligent please help us to understand and explore. Most of us
are too afraid to go looking for what we want in life to avoid the most.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Jim...@webtv.net
Kutrena
aliens, deadpeople, and monsters and i thought it was just costumes
sometimes i wouldnt go to sleep til my wife woke up please help in every
way you can thanx goobye help soon
Male...@hot.net
wrote:
>The fact remains. You think calling everyone a liar or delusional makes you
>an authority. But as done as you think I am there are many more ready to
>step up to the plate. This could turn into a full time job for you spooks.
It's a full time job for you, I'm just here for the entertainment.
>SkyKing
>Sky...@blackvault.com
>"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
>
>
>
>"Michael Davis" <mdav...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:39845C8D...@ix.netcom.com...
>> SkyKing wrote:
>>
>> -- BS before deleted.
>> >
>> > Evidence of it is one thing, common sense another. My credibility is
>> >
Male...@hot.net
WebTV, get YOUR'S today!
SkyKing
<Male...@hot.net> wrote in message
news:39857a0a....@news.idsi.net...
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:46:43 GMT, "SkyKing" <Sky...@blackvault.com>
> wrote:
>
> >The fact remains. You think calling everyone a liar or delusional makes
you
> >an authority. But as done as you think I am there are many more ready to
> >step up to the plate. This could turn into a full time job for you
spooks.
>
>
> It's a full time job for you, I'm just here for the entertainment.
>
>
> >SkyKing
> >Sky...@blackvault.com
> >"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
> >
> >
> >
> >"Michael Davis" <mdav...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >news:39845C8D...@ix.netcom.com...
> >> SkyKing wrote:
> >>
> >> -- BS before deleted.
> >> >
> >> > Evidence of it is one thing, common sense another. My credibility is
> >> >
Male...@hot.net
wrote:
>killfile
Ahhhh! Excellent! Thank you!
><Male...@hot.net> wrote in message
>news:39857a0a....@news.idsi.net...
>> On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:46:43 GMT, "SkyKing" <Sky...@blackvault.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The fact remains. You think calling everyone a liar or delusional makes
>you
>> >an authority. But as done as you think I am there are many more ready to
>> >step up to the plate. This could turn into a full time job for you
>spooks.
>>
>>
>> It's a full time job for you, I'm just here for the entertainment.
>>
>>
>> >SkyKing
>> >Sky...@blackvault.com
>> >"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >"Michael Davis" <mdav...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> >news:39845C8D...@ix.netcom.com...
>> >> SkyKing wrote:
>> >>
>> >> -- BS before deleted.
>> >> >
>> >> > Evidence of it is one thing, common sense another. My credibility is
>> >> >
E. L.
Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000, 4:35pm (EDT-3) From:
moonrose1...@aol.com.
Re: Alien Agenda
Sky King, I agree with you. Not only have I seen I have felt.<snip>
If you don't understand and nothing has happened to you that is great
but please don't attack those of us that know the reality in our own
lives. Leave us to discuss and comfort one another. We have nothing to
gain from this.
E.L.: "You seem to be in the wrond newsgroup. This ng if to discuss
aliens, not for you to tell the participants, whoever they may be - new
and old, that we have right being here criticizing the posts and
posters. No one has any proof of aliens. This is the reality WE have
to deal with. If you are experiencing a distortion of that reality -
whatever the distortion may create and cause you undesired effects - you
ought to talk to someone that can really help you cope with the effects
and not expect to find that help here where all we do is type our
feelings and you can read them. I am emotional AND intelligent, yet
there is no way I could help you since I am not on your mental level. I
don't understand.
SkyKing
and used as evidence in preponderance of the lack of physical evidence. It's
obvious something has happened to this individual, and he is bothered by it.
Your suggestion is to seek help. Perhaps to you anything out of the norm,
that could shake up your great gentile aristocracy, is a threat and should
either be conditioned or medicated to see it your way. If we dismiss
everyones verbal account of any alien activity, we would not have these
newsgroups. But do will that stop people from experiencing these strange
events. I think not. It wouldn't change what I saw. The skeptics, spooks and
trolls dismissing the verbal testimonial with venom and greeting anything
new with extreme prejudice only lends more to the fact that there needs to
be a dedicated and wide open forum for this subject away from government
control.
"E. L." <skept...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:10326-39...@storefull-153.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Geek Necrophiliac
>
> Professor Vonroach <vonr...@popd.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> > How would you react if I seized your private property
> > and paid you what I defined as `just compensation'?
>
> Ahhhh! Excellent! Thank you!
The desperation has brought forth the National Socialist hacks
trying to make nothing of something.
To clear this area of obvious intra-NorthAmerican existential
nihilistic cybertrash, it will be necessary to illuminate the
find muck file (global wash and solar rinse dry):
NeuroElectricMartialAcclimatizationAcculturation Act 1
[Was] Tiny Tim [] Obfuscating The Truth [?]
http://www.sightings.com/general2/truth.htm
It's Not Your Father's Mind Control Technology
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/v3c2/v3c2-1.htm
james...@my-deja.com
"SkyKing" <Sky...@blackvault.com> wrote:
> I think any scrap of testimonial information can shed light on
> this subject
> and used as evidence in preponderance of the lack of
> physical evidence.
Sky,
I would very much like to read about the details of your
account, if you feel inclined to share them with the
group. Of particular interest, you mention that you did not
see any funny lights -- I'm curious about what you did see.
I inferred from one of your earlier posts that they may
have moved in an unusual manner, if this is correct how
would you describe that motion? Also from the earlier post,
you mentioned that these creatures come in different colors, etc.
I would be intrigued to read any descriptions of their
physical attributes that might come to mind. The more detailed
the better.
If you have previously addressed these issues, let me know
and I'll try to dig it out of deja's history.
Jim Smith
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
SkyKing
fragments in whole or in part under polygraph. That is if you consider that
evidence ? Do you consider the polygraph evidence given by the Snowflake,
Arizona authorities to 7 loggers substantiated ? If you don't then there is
no point in giving you any more information to try and ridicule me with.
What I saw was distinct, not human, but then again I don't know what an
alien really looks like. I can only deduce they were not from this planet. I
was wide awake and even when I was 'knocked out' by one, I was still able to
see and look around. I never saw their 'ship' or funny lights.
Look, I'm not sure what you call it, but I am one of those light sleepers
that hears and remember sounds that occured even after I wake. I always
have. Example : A few days ago I fell asleep with the tv on to a news
station. When I woke up the next morning, tv still on, I remebered the
newscast of the Concorde crashing. I even recall the time, about 3AM my
time. To get the full story I looked it up online. There is nothing mystical
about it, the newscast was not incorporated into my dream, I didn't have
delusions of being on a crashing plane. In my lifetime I have thrwarted 2
attempted car thefts of mine by waking up upon hearing my own car door
close. While asleep I'm thinking 'that was my car door and my ears really
heard it'.
I don't have a mental conditions as you've tried to accuse me of, and I'm
not going to grace your request in full as you've proven that your only
intent is to disprove what I saw. Unless you can lend some sincere credence
to some of these peoples testimony and post some contributing information
(not detracting) to this newsgroup you wont get any cooperation from me.
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
<james...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8m6ism$opc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
james...@my-deja.com
In truth, I was just looking for a description of your
account -- particularly the physical attributes of those
you encountered -- it's difficult for me to visualize. It's
also fairly rare that someone reports an encounter without
attempting to claim that they are the ambassador
of another species or what have you (at least on this ng).
Your story sounded fairly straightford.
I just thought I'd go out on a limb and solicit information,
however I can appreciate your hesitance to go deeper into the
matter and will not press you further.
Jim Smith
In article <1lBh5.900$Z6.4...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
SkyKing
you must have me mistaken for that cut and paste patchwork Raelin excuse for
a human being. It's guys like him I don't like telling my full account
because they take the truth and pervert it into a divining rod for the weak.
The last thing I want is for someone to take what I said and use it to
create another Heavens Gate. (BTW : Do the Raelians wear rebok ?)
I figured you wanted to know what 'they' look like. If they look anything
like published works then I'm delusional ? Is that is ? Fact remains in this
case 'art imitates life'. As such, my account should lead more credence to
this phenomenon as a coroborating event. The fact that they do look similar,
but not quite, to alien descriptions is the only thing I have to go on that
they were alien. Is this what you were fishing for ?
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
"The truth will out"
<james...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8m706a$3qb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
E. L.
him/her/them alone, YET they post to these NGs which are full of people
from all walks of life. By the posts/responses I've seen on these open
NGs this is a no-no. If you post to these NGs, be prepared to deal with
a variety of POVs, pro and con. If you believe that the poster had the
experience described, and I gotta tell you this person sounds more
troubled than from an "alien abduction," and you want to offer support,
go right ahead there are no moderators to censor you. But on the other
hand be ready to deal with those such as me that do not accept not only
aliens but that they are abducting anybody. It's my right to disagree.
But the poster said: "If you don't understand and nothing has happened
to you that is great but please don't attack those of us that know the
reality in our own lives. Leave us to discuss and comfort one another.
open forum, you can't be left alone once you decide to post here.
That's all.
Edward
------------------------------------------------------
Group: alt.alien.research Date: Tue, Aug 1, 2000, 4:45am (EDT+4) From:
Sky...@blackvault.com (SkyKing) Re: WHAT Alien Agenda?
I think any scrap of testimonial information can shed light on this
subject and used as evidence in preponderance of the lack of physical
SkyKing
other abductees. This person was not looking to be challenged and neither am
I. I didn't come here to debate, but these strawmen pose such a flimsy
argument with made up accusation of things I never said or inferred, I find
myself having to defend even the simplest explanations. I find anyone
posting sincere tales of alien abductions looking for other abductees,
innundated by unsolicited attacks. Contrary to popluar belief I find these
types of personal attacks rare on usenet, and to find so much of it on this
subject leads me to believe there is much more to this subject.
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
"E. L." <skept...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12807-39...@storefull-153.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
You missed my point, Skyking. This person was asking US to leave
him/her/them alone, YET they post to these NGs which are full of people
from all walks of life. By the posts/responses I've seen on these open
NGs this is a no-no. If you post to these NGs, be prepared to deal with
a variety of POVs, pro and con. If you believe that the poster had the
experience described, and I gotta tell you this person sounds more
troubled than from an "alien abduction," and you want to offer support,
go right ahead there are no moderators to censor you. But on the other
hand be ready to deal with those such as me that do not accept not only
aliens but that they are abducting anybody. It's my right to disagree.
But the poster said: "If you don't understand and nothing has happened
to you that is great but please don't attack those of us that know the
reality in our own lives. Leave us to discuss and comfort one another.
We have nothing to gain from this." Leave us alone? Sorry, this is an
open forum, you can't be left alone once you decide to post here.
That's all.
Edward
snip
james...@my-deja.com
"SkyKing" <Sky...@blackvault.com> wrote:
<trimmed things up a bit>
> Fact remains in this
> case 'art imitates life'. As such, my account should lead
> more credence to
> this phenomenon as a coroborating event. The fact that they do
> look similar,
> but not quite, to alien descriptions is the only thing I have
> to go on that
> they were alien. Is this what you were fishing for ?
>
It captures some of what I was asking -- I'm
guessing you mean those known as the greys. Of
course I'm curious by nature, but I'll refrain
from asking other questions for now.
SkyKing
of them were the same shape as the others but had some strange black suit
on. Now what ? More ridicule from you ?
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
<james...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8m96eu$n4l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <mnFh5.1380$Z6.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "SkyKing" <Sky...@blackvault.com> wrote:
>
> <trimmed things up a bit>
>
> > Fact remains in this
> > case 'art imitates life'. As such, my account should lead
> > more credence to
> > this phenomenon as a coroborating event. The fact that they do
> > look similar,
> > but not quite, to alien descriptions is the only thing I have
> > to go on that
> > they were alien. Is this what you were fishing for ?
> >
>
> It captures some of what I was asking -- I'm
> guessing you mean those known as the greys. Of
> course I'm curious by nature, but I'll refrain
> from asking other questions for now.
>
Do-...@webtv.net
clothing. All of these creatures were small ( 3 to 4 feet tall ) except
one. I'm 6'4 and when I turned to this creature we seemed to be eye
level. His face had no expression but he looked at me through those big
black eyes like I was a dog that shit on his carpet.
Their agenda? When someone is sneaking around your house at night it is
assumed they are up to no good, right? I believe this is all about
deception. Why? I do not know.
E. L.
Date: Tue, Aug 1, 2000, 11:58pm (EDT+4) From: Sky...@blackvault.com
(SkyKing) Re: WHAT Alien Agenda?
But I also see their point in that they were looking for information
from other abductees.
E.L.: "Such as? Since all kinds of experiences and types of 'aliens'
have been described, and not necessarily all sounding the same, how
would different descriptions help? And would you accept ALL tales as
being of 'true' experiences? Isn't this opening yourself to all kinds
of put-ons?"
This person was not looking to be challenged and neither am I.
E.L.: "Well, I'm not challenging you nor am I lessening your experiences
by asking harmless questions. But some 'abductees' really sound as if
they need psychiatric help."
I didn't come here to debate, but these strawmen pose such a flimsy
argument with made up accusation of things I never said or inferred, I
find myself having to defend even the simplest explanations. I find
anyone posting sincere tales of alien abductions looking for other
abductees, innundated by unsolicited attacks.
E.L.: "I'm sure you are smart enough to realize that not everyone buys
aliens and abductions by said aliens. They are not a topic that will
attract supporters only. The thing about these NGs, as you have found
out, is that we come from all walks of life with all kinds of good or
bad education. Some of us live by our wits, never having the kind of
experiences you want to convince everyone of. We have questions for
which there are no answers, or when we get answers we have to evaluate
them. Not everyone on these NGs is qualified to ask proper questions or
understand the answers given. You, nor anyone else should be attacked.
But, like I said, the variety of people will always inlcude those that
deride for no other reason than to be ballbusters. They have to be
ignored and not allowed to interefere with your peace of mind."
Contrary to popluar belief I find these types of personal attacks rare
on usenet, and to find so much of it on this subject leads me to believe
there is much more to this subject.
E.L.: "There is always more to any subject, especially as enigmatic as
UFOs and aliens and their possible activities, if they were true. It's
very difficult for me, for instance, to believe any tale of aliens and
their alleged nefarious activities. I'm not an experiencer, I cannot
concur to your liking, but I am curious."
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
E. L.
Date: Wed, Aug 2, 2000, 11:58pm
From: Do-...@webtv.net
Re: WHAT Alien Agenda? SkyKing
The ones that I saw were pale also. I do not remember any type of
clothing. All of these creatures were small ( 3 to 4 feet tall ) except
one. I'm 6'4 and when I turned to this creature we seemed to be eye
level. His face had no expression but he looked at me through those big
black eyes like I was a dog that shit on his carpet.
E.L.: "The above description is why most of us don't buy the alien bit.
I just saw the movie on TV: "Earth vs. the Flying Saucers" and this
movie is from 1956. Yet such an alien as described above was shown. I
certainly am not going to make the jump that Hollywood got their images
from real-life events and I would say, now in 2000 at age 62 and a
former UFO investigator since 1957, that it is the other way around.
Alien images, i.e., big round head, big black eyes, 3'-4' high, etc.,
came from Hollywood which also included tall ones. All kinds, all
sizes, all shapes, thanks to Hollywood. WHAT agenda? Very little or
nothing has happened since day one, unless you want believe otherwise."
SkyKing
yelling, and they had these 'grey' ones with them. But I was wide awake and
had this one in some kind of black suit come at me. I was about 4' 9" at
that time and this thing was much taller. It seemed like the pale ones were
avoiding me while the black one came at me; like it had a protective suit of
some kind. I remeber being scared shitless and helpless. I agree, anything
that hides like that and sneaks around must have a haneous and vile agenda.
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
<Do-...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:27683-39...@storefull-288.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> The ones that I saw were pale also. I do not remember any type of
> clothing. All of these creatures were small ( 3 to 4 feet tall ) except
> one. I'm 6'4 and when I turned to this creature we seemed to be eye
> level. His face had no expression but he looked at me through those big
> black eyes like I was a dog that shit on his carpet.
SkyKing
> Group: alt.alien.research
> Date: Tue, Aug 1, 2000, 11:58pm (EDT+4) From: Sky...@blackvault.com
> (SkyKing) Re: WHAT Alien Agenda?
>
> But I also see their point in that they were looking for information
> from other abductees.
>
> E.L.: "Such as? Since all kinds of experiences and types of 'aliens'
> have been described, and not necessarily all sounding the same, how
> would different descriptions help? And would you accept ALL tales as
> being of 'true' experiences? Isn't this opening yourself to all kinds
> of put-ons?"
Never said that. Just those tales that have corresponding elements to my
experience. I'm only trying to make sense of what I saw, not prove to the
world 'they' exsist. I'm not making money off this and I really don't want
to convince anyone they exsist if they never experienced anything. I really
wish I never saw what I did. But for now I need to understand the 'why'
rather than the 'why me'.
>
> This person was not looking to be challenged and neither am I.
>
> E.L.: "Well, I'm not challenging you nor am I lessening your experiences
> by asking harmless questions. But some 'abductees' really sound as if
> they need psychiatric help."
Yes they do.
>
> I didn't come here to debate, but these strawmen pose such a flimsy
> argument with made up accusation of things I never said or inferred, I
> find myself having to defend even the simplest explanations. I find
> anyone posting sincere tales of alien abductions looking for other
> abductees, innundated by unsolicited attacks.
>
> E.L.: "I'm sure you are smart enough to realize that not everyone buys
> aliens and abductions by said aliens. They are not a topic that will
> attract supporters only. The thing about these NGs, as you have found
> out, is that we come from all walks of life with all kinds of good or
> bad education. Some of us live by our wits, never having the kind of
> experiences you want to convince everyone of. We have questions for
> which there are no answers, or when we get answers we have to evaluate
> them. Not everyone on these NGs is qualified to ask proper questions or
> understand the answers given. You, nor anyone else should be attacked.
> But, like I said, the variety of people will always inlcude those that
> deride for no other reason than to be ballbusters. They have to be
> ignored and not allowed to interefere with your peace of mind."
I'm living on extrapolations of hearsay knowledge. I would never go public
on such grounds. That would be stupid. I'm really not interested in sharing
what I do know anyway. What would it do for anyone anyway ? So I stay on
these newsgroups. Someone out there has an answer for me, they just aren't
talking.
>
> Contrary to popluar belief I find these types of personal attacks rare
> on usenet, and to find so much of it on this subject leads me to believe
> there is much more to this subject.
>
> E.L.: "There is always more to any subject, especially as enigmatic as
> UFOs and aliens and their possible activities, if they were true. It's
> very difficult for me, for instance, to believe any tale of aliens and
> their alleged nefarious activities. I'm not an experiencer, I cannot
> concur to your liking, but I am curious."
It does seem far fetched. But I can tell you are very pragmatic if not
exsistentialist.
> --
> SkyKing
> Sky...@blackvault.com
> "I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
The_Sage
>No one has any proof of aliens. This is the reality WE have
>to deal with.
Hahaha! I just saw this! This is funny because if no one has proof of
aliens, then the reality is there are no aliens...duh! I mean
everytime someone wants to talk about aliens, you have to ask
yourself, "What aliens?" and since there is no proof of any aliens,
you have to reply, "No aliens that we know of".
The Sage
=============================================================
My Home Page : http://www.psn.net/~xyz
"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in
the universe is that it has never tried to contact us"
-- Calvin and Hobbes (Bill Watterson)
=============================================================
Ricky Nielsen
programed to respond in certain ways to certain key words.So does that
"prove " that you don't exist? The existence of aliens is an unknown
therefore their existance or not is theory based on available evidence in
either case. as the evidence is at this time it supports either view.
The_Sage wrote in message <398a3b3c...@news.psn.net>...
SkyKing
liar.
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
"The_Sage" <x...@psn.net> wrote in message
news:398a3b3c...@news.psn.net...
SkyKing
and over again, under different names, responding by posting in a public
forum constantly and consistantly will make important information available
to those looking for it.
--
SkyKing
Sky...@blackvault.com
"I dont' know about aliens, I only know what I saw"
"Ricky Nielsen" <ric...@lor.net> wrote in message
news:YIti5.1092$lY75.2...@news.randori.com...
> I don't have any proof you exist. For all we know you could be a computer
> programed to respond in certain ways to certain key words.So does that
> "prove " that you don't exist? The existence of aliens is an unknown
> therefore their existance or not is theory based on available evidence in
> either case. as the evidence is at this time it supports either view.
> The_Sage wrote in message <398a3b3c...@news.psn.net>...
E. L.
prove I exist. Just come to the Big Apple, visit me, I'll get on the
Web, find this forum and these messages, I can show you all the I.D. you
ask for and I can prove to your satisfaction that I do, indeed, exist.
Of course, it goes without saying (and I doubt if it ever was!), that
aside from the above avalanche of proof, there are my acquaintances,
friends, enemies, whatever.
But the above is not the question. The question is "What similar, OR
ANY, proof do YOU have to back up your belief in aliens, and how do you
prove EXTRATERRESTRIAL aliens?" What could your aliens do to convince
me that they are real, aside from existing seemingly only in your mind
and that, if real, they're from outside the Earth?
edward
------------------------------------------------------
Group: alt.paranet.ufo
Date: Fri, Aug 4, 2000, 2:52am
From: ric...@lor.net (Ricky Nielsen)
Re: WHAT Alien Agenda?
The_Sage
>I don't have any proof you exist. For all we know you could be a computer
>programed to respond in certain ways to certain key words.So does that
>"prove " that you don't exist? The existence of aliens is an unknown
>therefore their existance or not is theory based on available evidence in
>either case. as the evidence is at this time it supports either view.
Unlike your imaginary aliens, I can be proved or disproved.
Ricky Nielsen
>
>E. L. wrote in message
<10275-39...@storefull-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
The lame thinking that passes for intelligence! You can definitely
prove I exist. Just come to the Big Apple, visit me, I'll get on the
Web, find this forum and these messages, I can show you all the I.D. you
ask for and I can prove to your satisfaction that I do, indeed, exist.
Of course, it goes without saying (and I doubt if it ever was!), that
aside from the above avalanche of proof, there are my acquaintances,
friends, enemies, whatever.
Sure that is just what I would program a computer to say. All that is
evidence, not proof for example if I come to New York how would I ''know''
that the person that I was introduced to wasn't an actor the programers
hired to play the part .Likewise when I was 16 I had a handful of ID's that
said I was 21 so I must assume that ID's are not anymore prove than photo's
since they both can be faked.
>>But the above is not the question. The question is "What similar, OR
ANY, proof do YOU have to back up your belief in aliens, and how do you
prove EXTRATERRESTRIAL aliens?" What could your aliens do to convince
me that they are real, aside from existing seemingly only in your mind
and that, if real, they're from outside the Earth?
>>As I have said that is a theory, not even mine, I take the stance that the
answer is unknown at this time maybe forever as every case must be accounted
for to completely dismiss the subject. Some of the evidence seems to point
at that being the answer to some cases some of the evidence argues against
it.
>edward
------------------------------------------------------
Group: alt.paranet.ufo
Date: Fri, Aug 4, 2000, 2:52am
From: ric...@lor.net (Ricky Nielsen)
Re: WHAT Alien Agenda?
I don't have any proof you exist. For all we know you could be a
computer programed to respond in certain ways to certain key words.So
does that "prove " that you don't exist? The existence of aliens is an
unknown therefore their existance or not is theory based on available
evidence in either case. as the evidence is at this time it supports
Ricky Nielsen
aliens I just consider that one of many unproven theories to explain the
questions posed by the evidence. I am agnostic and waiting for proof of what
all the sightings have been till then I consider the answer unknown.
The_Sage wrote in message <398b50dc...@news.psn.net>...
>>"Ricky Nielsen" <ric...@lor.net> wrote:
>
>>I don't have any proof you exist. For all we know you could be a computer
>>programed to respond in certain ways to certain key words.So does that
>>"prove " that you don't exist? The existence of aliens is an unknown
>>therefore their existance or not is theory based on available evidence in
>>either case. as the evidence is at this time it supports either view.
>
The_Sage
>>The lame thinking that passes for intelligence! You can definitely
>>prove I exist. Just come to the Big Apple, visit me, I'll get on the
>>Web, find this forum and these messages, I can show you all the I.D. you
>>ask for and I can prove to your satisfaction that I do, indeed, exist.
>>Of course, it goes without saying (and I doubt if it ever was!), that
>>aside from the above avalanche of proof, there are my acquaintances,
>>friends, enemies, whatever.
>I don't have any proof you exist.
That is only your personal problem and not a scientific one because
there is absolutely nothing to keep you from getting up off your fat
ass and going out into the real world to New York and proving or
disproving his existence. On the other hand, there is no way to prove
or disprove ET is visiting us because absolutely no one can tell us
where to find an ET in the process of visiting us.
>The existence of aliens is an unknown
You are off topic again. Wheter ET is visiting us or not is the topic
and it is an invariant fact that they are not visiting us.
>therefore their existance or not is theory based on available
>evidence in either case. as the evidence is at this time it supports
>either view.
There is no actual evidence, just alleged evidence in the form of
poorly told tales and poorly taken pictures...but feel free to prove
me wrong with some actual physical evidence -- which I know for a fact
you cannot do.
The_Sage
>That is just what a computer would be programed to say.
Liar. Name the computer that can do that.
E. L.
regarding my voluminous proof that I exist, is the problem with life in
general. There are all kinds of claims being made (we're talking UFOs,
aliens, paranormal, esoteric, etc.) but no substantiating
evidence/proof. We don't know what will satisfy another person, all we
know is what would satisfy us individually.
Finally, there is NO evidence that aliens are real, just the same old
tired tales. Tales just won't do for me. I got up this morning, just
like I've gotten up every morning since, let's say I was old enough to
understand, and I've never seen hide nor hair of an alien. But I sure
have read tons of tales. And there are tons of tales in science
fiction. But I deal with physical, wide awake, reality and aliens don't
exist in my reality. For the (past &) present.
edward
-----------------------------------------------------
Group: alt.alien.visitors Date: Fri, Aug 4, 2000, 7:41pm From:
ric...@lor.net (Ricky Nielsen) Re: WHICH Alien Agenda?
<snip>
Sure that is just what I would program a computer to say. All that is
evidence, not proof for example if I come to New York how would I
''know'' that the person that I was introduced to wasn't an actor the
programers hired to play the part .Likewise when I was 16 I had a
handful of ID's that said I was 21 so I must assume that ID's are not
anymore prove than photo's since they both can be faked.
E.L.: "But the above is not the question. The question is 'What similar,
OR ANY, proof do YOU have to back up your belief in aliens, and how do
you prove EXTRATERRESTRIAL aliens?' What could your aliens do to
convince me that they are real, aside from existing seemingly only in
your mind and that, if real, they're from outside the Earth?"
As I have said that is a theory, not even mine, I take the stance that
the
answer is unknown at this time maybe forever as every case must be
accounted for to completely dismiss the subject. Some of the evidence
seems to point at that being the answer to some cases some of the
evidence argues against it.
<snip>
Son_of_Chive_Mynde
.
>Finally, there is NO evidence that aliens are real, just the
>same old tired tales
More blind debunking from alt.alien.visitors resident
CIA/Eschelon/Carnivore Agent, E.L.
There is plenty of evidence that aliens are real, you simply
refuse to look at it!
Firstly, there is a plethora of mythological evidence in the
form of engravings, totems, images, pottery, statues, jewelry,
stories, and phyical evidence which lends credence to a time
where people visited Earth from the sky.
Secondly, astronomical science predicts that millions of solar
systems exist with inhabited worlds just like Earth in the Milky
Way alone. Sagan estimated that at least 1,000,000 Earth-like
planets exist using drake-like equations and mathematics.
Thirdly, with technological progress in physics, optics, and
computer science, planets are actually being found, perhaps a
few every week! Those planets are large gas giants for a
reason! Those are the only planets that are large enough to
exert a solar perturbation that we can observe. If those solar
systems are anything like our own, they most likely contain
earth-like planets that are far too small to be seen visually,
or to have a noticable effect on their own stars.
Fourthly, assuming that human beings are alone in the universe
is like assuming the grain of sand you are holding in your hand
is alone on a beach. This galaxy alone is a *huge* place, and
there are many indications that we are *not* alone. Sugar
molecules have been observed floating through space; meteorites
from Mars may have organic material similar to our own; Mars may
have water and wherever biologists find water they usually find
life; other planets in our solar system may have water; it is
not clear how life arose on Earth; Francis Crick has proposed
that life may have been put here by intelligent beings intent on
reproducing life, and that may not be far off from the truth;
panspermia is self-evident; virii and spores can survive
interplanetary space travel; some bacteria may go into
hibernation for millions of years and will resist dessication;
the discovery of pre-solar grains in meteorites suggests that
life may have been propelled throughout the universe through
exploding supernovaes.
There is plenty of evidence that aliens *are* real, the evidence
simply hasn't been oberserved or understood, yet.
To think that we are alone in the universe is about as self-
centered and narcissistic as one can get.
There is no evidence that human beings are alone in the universe.
The universe may be teeming with life. Yet, we are too
primitive and too self-centered like E.L., to understand how
this could be the case.
And until people like E.L. mentally grow-up, we will remain
forever in the dark.
- SOCkM
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Son_of_Chive_Mynde
deja.com.invalid> wrote:
>http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=197
>
>Link courtesy of slashdot.org
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/epsilon_vulcan_00
0804.html
Astronomers Find a 'Vulcan' Planet
By Robert Myers
Multimedia Producer
posted: 02:00 pm ET
04 August 2000
It may be as close as we're going to get to finding the
homeworld of Mr. Spock.
Scientists hunting for worlds orbiting stars outside of our
solar system have announced they've found a Jupiter-sized planet
orbiting the nearby star Epsilon Eridani -- a star named in some
Star Trek books as being the home star of the fictional planet
Vulcan.
The planet follows an oval orbit and is roughly the same
distance from Epsilon Eridani as the Asteroid Belt is from our
sun.
Epsilon Eridani is represented by the white star superimposed on
this 1998 image of the dust cloud that surrounds the star.
"Detecting a planet orbiting Epsilon Eridani -- a star very
similar to our own sun and only 3.22 parsecs (10.5 light-years)
from Earth -- is like finding a planet in our own backyard,
relatively speaking," said Dr. William Cochran of the University
of Texas, who led the effort.
Epsilon Eridani has made news in the past. In 1998 scientists
discovered the star had a sizeable dust disk encircling it --
just the sort of material planets are thought to condense from.
The dust disk also appears to have a bright patch that may be
caused by a forming planet.
The discovery of an actual planet allows Epsilon Eridani to join
the ranks of stars with full-blown solar systems. But as with
most previous discoveries of extrasolar worlds, this planet was
detected indirectly. No telescopes are yet powerful enough to
see reflected light from a planet that far away -- but when the
star itself wobbles due to the orbit of an unseen object,
scientists can determine how big that object is, and how far it
is from the star.
So far, this method has only uncovered planets that are
characterized as "hot Jupiters," so-named because they are all
large worlds orbiting very close to their stars. The orbit of
Epsilon Eridani's planet breaks that pattern somewhat by being
more distant.
"All the planets found so far that are the size of Jupiter are
much closer to the parent star." Cochran said. "It means there
could be room for an Earth-like planet closer to Epsilon Eridani
and, perhaps, in a habitable zone."
Son_of_Chive_Mynde
SETI Scientists Buoyed by Planet Discovery
By Kenneth Silber
Staff Writer
posted: 01:26 pm ET
17 November 1999
Astronomers Confirm Other Worlds Exist
The observation earlier this month of a planet crossing in front
of star HD 209458 will affect Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence (SETI) projects in several ways.
For one thing, it ensures the star will be a priority target in
determining where to listen for possible signals from
extraterrestrial civilizations. "Whenever a star is known to
have planets, it moves to the head of the class," says Seth
Shostak, an astronomer at the SETI Institute in Mountain View,
California.
More broadly, the observation strengthens the assumption, which
underlies much SETI research, that numerous planets exist in the
galaxy.
The sighting is the "ultimate confirmation that there really are
planets," says Dan Werthimer, an astronomer who directs a SETI
project at the University of California at Berkeley. Previous
reports of planets were based on indirect evidence, he
notes. "We just saw stars wiggle."
The particular planet observed at HD 209458 is thought unlikely
to be an abode for life, because it is a giant gas planet
orbiting close to its star and thus subject to extreme heat.
However, a number of the previously reported planets orbit at
distances similar to that between Earth and sun.
Moreover, star systems that have giant gas planets may also have
smaller planets and moons that are extremely difficult to detect
with current technology. "The next step that would kick us into
higher gear would be the detection of Earth-sized planets," says
Shostak.
(Painting by Lynette Cook reprinted with permission.)
Okkams Razer
alone in the universe--if he did, I would be willing to debate with him,
basically along the same line of reasoning SOCkM mentions.
But to say this alien life is advanced enough to travel to Earth and
visit us--this is a theory that requires extraordinary proof.
What gets me about most UFO stories is that they apply the limitations
and faults of the human race to these supposedly advanced life forms.
There is no reason to believe an alien race with spacefaring
capabilities would not be as gods to us--evading our radar, our
camcorders, our own eyes; obtaining genetic samples instantaneously,
without the 50 or so years of anal implanting that has supposedly been
going on.
After saying all this, I am still interested in meeting some of these
beautiful, tall Nordic female aliens mentioned in some earlier posts.
OR
The_Sage
>>Finally, there is NO evidence that aliens are real, just the
>>same old tired tales
>More blind debunking from alt.alien.visitors resident
>CIA/Eschelon/Carnivore Agent, E.L.
>There is plenty of evidence that aliens are real, you simply
>refuse to look at it!
Then why can't you list one shred of valid evidence?
The_Sage
>No telescopes are yet powerful enough to
>see reflected light from a planet that far away
Now consider this, the reflected light from a planet contains far more
power than any radio broadcast does, yet we cannot see planets more
than 10.5 light years away.
Told you SETI was a joke.
Ricky Nielsen
The_Sage wrote in message <398cc286...@news.psn.net>...
>>Son_of_Chive_Mynde <ooochiveooomy...@my-deja.com.invalid>
wrote:
>
>>>Finally, there is NO evidence that aliens are real, just the
>>>same old tired tales
>
>>More blind debunking from alt.alien.visitors resident
>>CIA/Eschelon/Carnivore Agent, E.L.
>
>>There is plenty of evidence that aliens are real, you simply
>>refuse to look at it!
>
>Then why can't you list one shred of valid evidence?
Because what one considers "valid" is a personal decision and yours limited
by your blind faith belief in your opinion that we haven't been visited. But
as the dictionary defines evidence there is much.
Ricky Nielsen
The_Sage wrote in message <398c732e...@news.psn.net>...
>>"Ricky Nielsen" <ric...@lor.net> wrote:
>
>>>The lame thinking that passes for intelligence! You can definitely
>>>prove I exist. Just come to the Big Apple, visit me, I'll get on the
>>>Web, find this forum and these messages, I can show you all the I.D. you
>>>ask for and I can prove to your satisfaction that I do, indeed, exist.
>>>Of course, it goes without saying (and I doubt if it ever was!), that
>>>aside from the above avalanche of proof, there are my acquaintances,
>>>friends, enemies, whatever.
>
>>I don't have any proof you exist.
>
>That is only your personal problem and not a scientific one because
>there is absolutely nothing to keep you from getting up off your fat
>ass and going out into the real world to New York and proving or
>disproving his existence. On the other hand, there is no way to prove
>or disprove ET is visiting us because absolutely no one can tell us
>where to find an ET in the process of visiting us.
And how would I be able to discern if I was being lied to by the people who
claim that this person is the one with whom I discussed things with on the
internet? Actors exist fake, fake id exists, anyone who tells me" yes that
is him" would only be testimony ,evidence, not proof. How would I be able to
decide that I wasn't being scammed?
>
>>The existence of aliens is an unknown
>
>You are off topic again. Wheter ET is visiting us or not is the topic
Ok whether et is visiting or not is an unknown.That's what I meant anyway.
>and it is an invariant fact that they are not visiting us.
Nope that is your opinion not a "fact" the truth is unknown some evidence
seems to indicate we are some indicates we are not and as it is not
impossible just unlikely the truth is still unknown until every single case
can be shown to be untruth.
>
>>therefore their existance or not is theory based on available
>>evidence in either case. as the evidence is at this time it supports
>>either view.
>
>There is no actual evidence, just alleged evidence
Nope as the dictionary defines "actual" the evidence exists and can be
verified by anyone in the form of first person reports, affidavids, ect. and
as such is actual evidence.
in the form of
>poorly told tales and poorly taken pictures...but feel free to prove
>me wrong with some actual physical evidence -- which I know for a fact
>you cannot do.
Ah now you wish to add the word "physical" and I will freely admit that
there is no undisputable "physical'' ,at least not in the public domain, but
as the ufo phenomenon is a unknown and transient event I am not sure what
physical evidence would be recognisable to us. For example lightning between
clouds doesn't leave any physical evidence, a plane flying overhead doesn't
leave any physical evidence, Satellites passing overhead don't leave any
physical evidence, meteorites that burn up in the atmosphere don't leave any
physical evidence. On the other hand
the elements are the same through out the galaxy as far as we know so it
would be fairly simple for a advanced race that wished to remain hidden to
make sure that they didn't leave anything we would recognise as undisputably
extraterrestrial.
Ricky Nielsen
it watch for some key phrases and have a posting set up to go when they show
up. I was just reading about an artificial intellegence experiment where
they set a computer up to act as a phychologist and it fooled most of the
people in the experiment
The_Sage wrote in message <398c7448...@news.psn.net>...
>>"Ricky Nielsen" <ric...@lor.net> wrote:
>
>>That is just what a computer would be programed to say.
>
>Liar. Name the computer that can do that.
>
Ricky Nielsen
watch for the words"what a computer would say" and have it put some version
of denial that diverted the argument to a side track/ then have it programed
to watch for answer a) where I give you a name or type of computer. then
answer in some version of "liar those computers can't do that ." or b) where
I don't give you a name or type of computer . then have the program answer
say" well if you can't name one it doesn't exists" then if I was programing
it to be very subtle I would program it in any case to divert the
conversation into a preprogrammed area with a lot of responces on tap like
Oh Gravity or the three little pigs or death.
indigo
--
"Ricky Nielsen" <ric...@lor.net> wrote in message
news:eL7j5.3753$uDc5.8...@news.randori.com...
> This is also what I would expect a computer program to say/ have the
program
> watch for the words"what a computer would say" and have it put some
version
> of denial that diverted the argument to a side track/ then have it
programed
> to watch for answer a) where I give you a name or type of computer. then
> answer in some version of "liar those computers can't do that ." or b)
where
> I don't give you a name or type of computer . then have the program answer
> say" well if you can't name one it doesn't exists" then if I was
programing
> it to be very subtle I would program it in any case to divert the
> conversation into a preprogrammed area with a lot of responces on tap like
> Oh Gravity or the three little pigs or death.
>
>
Right now I'm babysitting an eight year old and she is using the same logic.
So do I believe that Ricky Nielsen exists or is he just a computer
programmed to be childish? I can get someone to chase information through
the internet and find the address that is the source of the messages.
People could check to see if there is a Ricky Nielsen living there. Lastly,
if needed, we can get a search warrant and sieze the computer and look for a
program that is in denial.
My eight year old would say that's not proof of Ricky Nielsen, only a method
of confirming. I would then say that to the best of my knowledge there has
never been a computer programmed to reply to posts (although Artie is a
maybe) and that I seriously doubt that it can be done. Therefore it is
extreemely unlikely that a computer is sending these messages and either a
person called Ricky Nielsen exists or there is a person using that name. The
nice thing though is that if I wish to put the resources to it I can find
Mr. Ricky Nielsen, the person using that name, or the computer.
Now if I want to put the resources into proving that there is an "Alien
Agenda" what can I find? Sweet fuck all. UFO reports, trampled grass, and
cored assholes are not proof of anything. There is nothing that I can touch
or even listen to. So Ricky, there is no comparison between your little
word game and proofs of Alien Agendas. Either you are intelligent enough to
see that and are playing head games, or you are not. I believe that you are
intelligent, why not put your energies into something other than gaming the
Sage?
Indigo
Ricky Nielsen
indigo wrote in message <398d...@newsserver1.intergate.ca>...
>
>
>--
>
>"Ricky Nielsen" <ric...@lor.net> wrote in message
>news:eL7j5.3753$uDc5.8...@news.randori.com...
>> This is also what I would expect a computer program to say/ have the
>program
>> watch for the words"what a computer would say" and have it put some
>version
>> of denial that diverted the argument to a side track/ then have it
>programed
>> to watch for answer a) where I give you a name or type of computer. then
>> answer in some version of "liar those computers can't do that ." or b)
>where
>> I don't give you a name or type of computer . then have the program
answer
>> say" well if you can't name one it doesn't exists" then if I was
>programing
>> it to be very subtle I would program it in any case to divert the
>> conversation into a preprogrammed area with a lot of responces on tap
like
>> Oh Gravity or the three little pigs or death.
>>
>>
>Right now I'm babysitting an eight year old and she is using the same
logic.
>So do I believe that Ricky Nielsen exists or is he just a computer
>programmed to be childish?
That's up to you. I aint' saying one way or the other.
I can get someone to chase information through
>the internet and find the address that is the source of the messages.
>People could check to see if there is a Ricky Nielsen living there.
Lastly,
>if needed, we can get a search warrant and sieze the computer and look for
a
>program that is in denial.
That I live here doesn't prove that I am the one doing the posting. How
would you get a search warrant as I or this computer have broken no laws
even if It is just my computer talking ? They don't just pass them out
because you waht to prove me real, now do they?
>
>My eight year old would say that's not proof of Ricky Nielsen, only a
method
>of confirming. I would then say that to the best of my knowledge there has
>never been a computer programmed to reply to posts (although Artie is a
>maybe) and that I seriously doubt that it can be done.
I don't know why you would assume that. It would be much less complicated
than a computer programed to beat a chess champion and it would be an
interesting experiment in AI to see how long you could keep the illusion
going.
Therefore it is
>extreemely unlikely that a computer is sending these messages and either a
>person called Ricky Nielsen exists or there is a person using that name.
The
>nice thing though is that if I wish to put the resources to it I can find
>Mr. Ricky Nielsen, the person using that name, or the computer.
Well it would be fairly easy if I am using my real name but what about these
people/computers using alias's like Sage ect. do you think you could look in
the phone book and find a listing under that?
>
>Now if I want to put the resources into proving that there is an "Alien
>Agenda" what can I find? Sweet fuck all. UFO reports, trampled grass, and
>cored assholes are not proof of anything.
Sure not "proof" just evidence as the subject still falls in the area of
unknown by defination it isn't "proven" one way or the other.
There is nothing that I can touch
>or even listen to. So Ricky, there is no comparison between your little
>word game and proofs of Alien Agendas.
I disagree as far as the newsgroup is concerned.
Either you are intelligent enough to
>see that and are playing head games, or you are not. I believe that you
are
>intelligent, why not put your energies into something other than gaming the
>Sage?
Why not ask Sage?
Well it is only around a half an hour a day I spend here so it is no real
energy spent at least not compared to my job where I work more or less like
a slave at hard physical labor. The computer is on in the evening
downloading Mp3 concerts, so I might as well sit in front of it and unwind.
UFO's and the theory of aliens interest me; so I look in at the newsgroups
every day read everything and as it is a free format I comment on the
postings that seem to me to be taking a unsupported point of view.
>
>Indigo
>
>
The_Sage
>>>I don't have any proof you exist.
>>That is only your personal problem and not a scientific one because
>>there is absolutely nothing to keep you from getting up off your fat
>>ass and going out into the real world to New York and proving or
>>disproving his existence. On the other hand, there is no way to prove
>>or disprove ET is visiting us because absolutely no one can tell us
>>where to find an ET in the process of visiting us.
>And how would I be able to discern if I was being lied to by the people who
>claim that this person is the one with whom I discussed things with on the
>internet? Actors exist fake, fake id exists, anyone who tells me" yes that
>is him" would only be testimony ,evidence, not proof. How would I be able to
>decide that I wasn't being scammed?
I don't think you would ever be able to do that, since you lack the
necessary logical thinking abilities required. But as for the rest of
us, it is elementary: Compare the demonstratable facts with the
alleged claims and note any discrepancies.
Scott
<ooochiveooomy...@my-deja.com.invalid> wrote:
>skept...@webtv.net (E. L.) wrote:
>.
>>Finally, there is NO evidence that aliens are real, just the
>>same old tired tales
<snip>
>
>And until people like E.L. mentally grow-up, we will remain
>forever in the dark.
>
>- SOCkM
"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by
making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is
disagreeable and therefore unpopular."
- C.G. Jung
E. L.
Date: Sat, Aug 5, 2000, 5:11pm (EDT-3) From: (Son_of_Chive_Mynde)
Re: WHICH Agenda? Mine?
skept...@webtv.net (E. L.) wrote:
<Finally, there is NO evidence that aliens are real, just the same old
tired tales>
More blind debunking from alt.alien.visitors resident
CIA/Eschelon/Carnivore Agent, E.L.
E.L.: "What I said has no semblance to debunking. I'm just challenging
you and all other claimants to provide just an inkling of something that
would qualify as proof. You supply 'evidence' that's questionable but
no proof."
There is plenty of evidence that aliens are real, you simply refuse to
look at it!
E.L.: "The 'evidence' is NOT for aliens, just strange happenings in our
past (and present). Hearsay."
Firstly, there is a plethora of mythological evidence in the form of
engravings, totems, images, pottery, statues, jewelry, stories, and
phyical evidence which lends credence to a time where people visited
Earth from the sky.
E.L.: "THIS is evidence? Sounds like old wives' tales to me.
Unexplainable, maybe, but no proof for any of your nor anyone's claims."
Secondly, astronomical science predicts that millions of solar systems
exist with inhabited worlds just like Earth in the Milky Way alone.
Sagan estimated that at least 1,000,000 Earth-like planets exist using
drake-like equations and mathematics.
E.L.: "So what about predictions? When in all of our history has there
ever been just one prediction that came true? What does it matter what
Sagan or Drake (with a capital D!) said? They're using human
intellgence and education garnered in our teaching institutions. They
are not privy to anything you couldn't learn, although I doubt that you
nor any believer has the brainpower to think logically. There is only
one planet of record with 'intelligent' life on it: Earth! Although
some earthlings' 'intelligence' is questionable."
<snip>
There is no evidence that human beings are alone in the universe.
E.L.: "You seem to purposely want to sound dumb! All the evidence shows
that human beings are ALONE in the universe."
The universe may be teeming with life. Yet, we are too primitive and too
self-centered like E.L., to understand how this could be the case.
E.L.: "The universe may be teeming with life, but it sure as hell is not
aware of us. I'm not self-centered and it is precisely because I'm not
that I can understand how this could NOT be the case."
And until people like E.L. mentally grow-up, we will remain forever in
the dark.
E.L.: "And, so, you are implying that us open-minded THINKERS are
keeping YOU in the dark? Sounds like the opposite to me. I'm after the
light, the light of intelligence and not wishful thinking."
- SOCkM
----------------------------------------------
Ricky Nielsen
masquerading as a person.
The_Sage wrote in message <398db3d1...@news.psn.net>...
Keith M. King
gods to us. Owing to their advanced technology, they might
APPEAR to be able to do god-like acts..(evading radar not being
one of them)...
If we were to transport a television back to the
16th century, I have no doubt that the innocent denizens of that
ancient time would think we possessed some strange power
to capture souls. Of course, its only advanced technology.
Aliens, if they are afoot in our airspace and planet would
of course be using all the technology at their disposal
to effect their purposes.
Can they travel via interplanetary routes? Perhaps. Interdimensinally?
Unknown. It may be something that modern Physics is not aware of.
Nothing should be ruled out until the full extent of what this
phenomenon is known.
Keith
John
mental exercise. I strongly suspect that most of the "true-believers"
here fall into one of the following categories:
MENTALLY ILL-The closed delusional systems seen in here are symptomatic
of paranoid processes. No matter what you say, the paranoid will have a
delusional answer built to maintain the delusional system. For example,
your being a "computer program."
FANATICS-In the past, they saw stuff falling into the belief systems of
their days: dragons, demons, etc. Now, it is "aliens."
ATTENTION SEEKERS
CON ARTISTS
IGNORANT PEOPLE who lack education but have lots of gullibility. Their
lack of knowledge makes them easy prey for the other types listed above.
The lack of education is the biggest problem. See how many of them
demand that you prove the null hypothesis? An undergraduate student
taking an intro course in statistics and research design would not make
the logical mistakes you see here.
Son_of_Chive_Mynde
>E.L.: "And, so, you are implying that us open-minded THINKERS
E.L., you are *not* an open-minded thinker.
>are keeping YOU in the dark? Sounds like the opposite to me.
>I'm after the light, the light of intelligence and not wishful
>thinking."
50 potential extra-solar planets have been found so far. It's
only a matter of time till you're laughed off this group, E.L.
Sunday August 6 5:42 PM ET
Astronomers Say Eight New Planets Detected
By Bill Rosato
LONDON (Reuters) - International teams of astronomers said on
Monday they had discovered eight new planets outside our solar
system.
Five of the new planets were detected in the Southern Hemisphere
by astronomers working with information from the European
Southern Observatory's La Silla observatory in Chile. The
scientists are based in Geneva, Switzerland.
None of the planets have ever been seen by humans, but
scientists believe they are there because of the gravitational
pull they exert on the stars they orbit and the subsequent
detectable effect they have on the light the stars emit.
One of the five planets that the Geneva astronomers detected
made up part of only the second multi-planetary system ever
found.
The new multi-planet system consists of two Saturn-sized gaseous
giant planets, HD 83443 b, which the scientists said they
detected in May, and HD 83443 c, which they have just discovered.
HD 83443 c is the lightest planet yet discovered weighing
roughly half what Saturn weighs, the astronomers told a
conference in the northern England city of Manchester.
The planets circle the HD 83443 star, 141 light years away from
our solar system in the Vela constellation.
Only one other extra-solar multi-planetary system -- three
planets around the Upsilon Andromedae star -- had previously
been detected, the scientists said.
The Geneva team also announced the discovery of a new planet in
the Northern Hemisphere. The planet, which orbits the HD 190228
star 203 light years away, was found using information gathered
at an observatory in Haute-Provence, France.
U.S. Team Announces Planets
A team of scientists based at the University of California,
Berkeley, said they had found three new planets -- one orbiting
the HD 92788, which was also identified by the Geneva team.
All three planets were gas giants similar to Jupiter.
In another discovery, the Berkeley scientists found that multi-
planetary systems might be more common than was previously
thought.
One of the Berkeley astronomers, Debra Fischer, said studies of
12 stars which already had one planet circling them had yielded
evidence that might indicate that five of them have another
planet orbiting them.
These stars had ``wobbles'' which could not be explained simply
by the presence of the one planet.
``This is the first time anyone has noticed that such a high
percentage of stars with one known planet show evidence of a
second companion,'' Fischer said.
``We found changes in the speed of stars that indicate that
there is something pulling it around. But without further
analysis it is unclear what that is.''
The teams announced their discoveries at the International
Astronomical Union (IAU) General Assembly where 2,000
astronomers from 87 countries converged on Manchester for an 11-
day meeting.
The new planetary discoveries bring the number of potential
extra-solar planets to about 50.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Son_of_Chive_Mynde
August 7, 2000
Scientists to Announce Discovery of 10 Planets
By KENNETH CHANG
Astronomers are announcing this week that they have discovered
10 new planets and have found tantalizing hints of another
multiplanet system.
Where there is one planet around a star, there are likely to be
more. At least, that is the view of astronomers at the
University of California at Berkeley. The reason astronomers
have not sighted more multiple-planet systems, they say, is
simply that they have not looked long enough.
Astronomers first found a planet around a Sun-like star only
five years ago. The count of planet-bearing stars has now passed
40, including the 10 that will be discussed this week, but of
these, only 2 have more than 1 planet.
Almost all of the extrasolar planets discovered so far have been
detected indirectly -- their gravitational pull causes their
parent stars to wobble back and forth, which causes a slight
wobble in the wavelength of light coming from the stars.
Dr. Debra A. Fischer, a postdoctoral fellow at Berkeley, re-
examined data from 12 stars known to have a planet to see if
they contained unnoticed evidence of other planets. "Five of
them showed extra wobbles," Dr. Fischer said. "That indicates
the presence of some other thing there."
The unseen bodies could be other planets, dim companion stars or
brown dwarfs -- small "failed" stars that were not quite massive
enough to light up.
The findings are being presented at the International
Astronomical Union meeting, which opens in Manchester, England
today.
The only two known multiplanet star systems are Upsilon
Andromedae, 44 light-years away in the constellation Andromeda
and HD 83443, which is 141 light-years away in the constellation
Vela.
The Berkeley team announced a year ago that they had found three
planets around Upsilon Andromedae. Astronomers led by Dr. Michel
Mayor of the Geneva Observatory in Switzerland announced the
discovery of one planet around HD 83443 in May and will present
data on the second planet at the astronomical union's meeting.
The newly discovered planetary system provides a surprise to
astronomers: two gaseous, giant-size planets very close to the
star. One, only 3.5 million miles away from the star, completes
one orbit in less than three days. The other completes its
elliptical orbit in only 30 days. Mercury, the innermost planet
in the solar system, is 35.5 million miles from the Sun and
completes one orbit in 88 days.
The HD 83443 system appears to be stable despite the
gravitational tuggings between the two planets and the star.
Compared with other planets discovered so far, the two around HD
83443 are also relatively small. One planet may be just slightly
more massive than Saturn; the other may be half as massive as
Saturn. Saturn is one-third the mass of Jupiter; most of the
extrasolar planets are several times larger than Jupiter.
Dr. Mayer and his colleagues also announced planets around five
other stars in addition to HD 83443. Extrasolar planets have now
appeared almost next door to the solar system, too.
Astronomers led by Dr. William Cochran, a research scientist at
the McDonald Observatory of the University of Texas, announced
the discovery of a planet around a star only 10.5 light-years
from Earth.
The planet, around Epsilon Eridani in the constellation
Eridanus, is similar to Jupiter in its distance from its star,
its orbital period and its mass.
But its highly eccentric orbit would most likely disrupt the
orbits of any Earth-like planets in the system.
That one of the nearest stars has a planet is by itself
encouraging to those looking for alien life or even
civilizations.
Because the Epsilon Eridani is one of the closest Sun-like
stars, it long ago caught the attention of astronomers listening
for radio signals from alien civilizations. Recent listening
efforts have turned up nothing, but that doesn't absolutely rule
out an alien civilization around Epsilon Eridani. Even the
world's largest radio telescope cannot detect stray radio and
television transmissions.
"Gosh, even when you look at the next sun out, it's got planets,
too," said Dr. Seth Shostak, an astronomer at the SETI
Institute, of Mountain View, Calif., a private astronomical
group, "suggesting that planets are as common as cheap hotels."
John
of new planets. OK, that is real science at its best. What does that
have to do with aliens and pseudo-science?
Skeptics have open minds which require rigorous evidence. We do not
passively accept anything claimed by anyone unless they offer serious
evidence, and not speculation and anecdotal material. The kind of mind
you consider open is actually passive, uncritical, and gullible.
E. L.
astronomy is going, it seems that you are going to possibly find out
about your hopeful wishes. I'll be long gone before any other life is
even hinted at. So, I don't care and so, there! We'l see who has the
last laugh!
edward
------------------------------------------------------
Group: alt.alien.visitors
Date: Mon, Aug 7, 2000, 3:07am (EDT-3) From:
ooochiveooomy...@my-deja.com.invalid (Son_of_Chive_Mynde) Re:
WHICH Agenda? Yours?
skept...@webtv.net (E. L.) wrote:
E.L.: "And, so, you are implying that us open-minded THINKERS..."
E.L., you are *not* an open-minded thinker.
E.L.: (cont'd) "...are keeping YOU in the dark? Sounds like the opposite
E. L.
Date: Sat, Aug 5, 2000, 9:33pm
From: Okkam...@webtv.net (Okkams Razer)
Re: WHICH Agenda? Mine?
I might be wrong, but I don't think EL said anything about humans being
alone in the universe--if he did, I would be willing to debate with him,
basically along the same line of reasoning SOCkM mentions.
E.L.: "Well, Ok, I'm glad my comments made you think, but you are wrong
about what I meant. I'll repeat myself hopefully clearer. My belief is
that we are the only life in creation, period. There may be untold
numbers of planets in creation but at 62, and I have to always specify
my age so that you don't think of my posts as coming from a young
whippersnapper, but from someone who has lived a good, full life, and
I'm facing the inevitable, death. So, I don't waste my brainpower in
constructing theories that will never be proved in my lifetime. Aliens
may be a hot topic but there is still no sign of them, enough to
convince me, anyway. You can't argue this topic because you don't have
any evidence for your beliefs. And it's not up to me to disprove your
claims."
Grantland
>Well, son, I'm 62. I'll assume you are younger, say 28. At the rate
>astronomy is going, it seems that you are going to possibly find out
>about your hopeful wishes. I'll be long gone before any other life is
>even hinted at. So, I don't care and so, there! We'l see who has the
>last laugh!
>
>edward
You don't really believe that, do you? Contact is soon! !REJOICE!
little lightbeing: ADMISSION! at last oh yea it's a hnnf hnnnnfff the
milliohhnnff fflds!! Ihhh hnffff hnffffffffff
;'0-)_[\90oi0-p)_P*(&UYuij%^(){"_)(<>:?P{+
|}+{_P:"
|+|+_)(LOL:(
Okkams Razer
I agree I have no proof there is life on other planets (especially the
12 planet named X that is scheduled to hurl through the plane of out
solar system-- creating havoc on a biblical scale--like earthquakes,
volcanoes, Ross Perot in the whitehouse--y'know bad stuff --just
kidding)...and until we get a better idea of what some of the values
are in the drake equ. are, all we will have is guesses. It seems like
every month there are discoveries that increase the probability given by
the drk equ.
Of course, given this, man hasn't yet been able to create 'life' in a
test tube, so at least one factor of the equation is pretty low (may you
live long enough to see if we find life on the moons of
Jupiter--bacteria and such).
In my opinion, with so many stars in so many galaxies, life has had to
have started somewhere else--there are just too many opportunities and
too much time to assumed it happened once. The universe is just too big
and too old.
The second edge of this sword is that the universe is so vast,
encountering intelligent life is highly unlikely, since it is so
difficult to get to other stars. This would explain the lack of
evidence of life on other planets (regardless of how many posts in this
NG tell you its because of gubment coverups)
I can understand your point of not wanting to waste too much time
worrying and debating about something that will not effect you or me or
mankind for generations (if ever). I view the argument of life on other
planets as just another scientific discussion--just as interesting (if
not a little older) as the story of diamonds raining out of the skies of
Neptune (see Discover Magazine this month)--another fact that may or may
not effect you or me in our lifetime.
In the end, its an academic discussion about a theory. Im not asking
you to convince me we are alone in the universe, but I AM interest in
hearing why you believe we are alone--if you dont mind wasting some
time.
I understand if you find the point moot, and don't want to discuss
it--which isn't to say I wouldn't be disappointed.
Finally, if a young whippersnapper can construct a logical, rational
argument, I usually give them the benefit of the doubt.
Also, you didn't address the topic of cute Nordic blondes--you cant tell
me THAT topic wouldn't effect your life--even at 62... ; )
OR
Okkams Razer
Tiny Human Ferret
What gets me is that in the "Star Trek" fictional universe, the name
"Cochran" is famous; it was the fictional Zephraim Cochran who invents Warp
Drive, and in an historic test flight, attracted the attention of the
Vulcans, and the Vulcan-Human Alliance later went on to defeat the Vegans,
freeing many subject species and opening nearby space for the newly formed
United Federation of Planets to create a loose cooperative government
organized along a militarized socialist/libertarian model.
So, is it any coincidence that a man named Cochran announces the discovery
of the planet Vulcan?
I think not! In fact, it's proof of what we've always known all along, that
Gene Roddenberry was a stranded time-traveller, selling little bits of the
future's history as dreams for us all!
KaPlAH!
--
The incapacity of a weak and distracted government may often assume the
appearance, and produce the effects, of a treasonable correspondence
with the public enemy.
--Gibbon, "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"
E. L.
Date: Tue, Aug 8, 2000, 10:05pm
From: Okkam...@webtv.net (Okkams Razer)
Re: WHICH Agenda? Who knows?
EL: I agree I have no proof there is life on other planets (especially
the 12 planet named X that is scheduled to hurl through the plane of out
solar system-- creating havoc on a biblical scale--like earthquakes,
volcanoes, Ross Perot in the whitehouse--y'know bad stuff --just
kidding)...and until we get a better idea of what some of the values are
in the drake equ. are, all we will have is guesses.
E.L.: "Your last comment is where one has to shed some thinking cells
for some new ones. You see the Drake equation is just a guess! You can
guess too without academic credentials. Until actual proof all we will
ever have is guesses - yours, mine, Drake's, whomever's."
It seems like every month there are discoveries that increase the
probability given by the drk equ.
E.L.: "I haven't seen or heard of one and I don't see what kind of
discovery could improve the chances."
Of course, given this, man hasn't yet been able to create 'life' in a
test tube, so at least one factor of the equation is pretty low (may you
live long enough to see if we find life on the moons of
Jupiter--bacteria and such).
E.L.: "Thanks for the good wishes. But if you thought Dustin Hoffman's
121-year-old character looked old, wait 'til you see ME waiting for the
above! Although, bacteria I'll grant the possibility of. But that's
it."
In my opinion, with so many stars in so many galaxies, life has had to
have started somewhere else--there are just too many opportunities and
too much time to assumed it happened once. The universe is just too big
and too old.
E.L.: "But as the OLD saying goes, "We is all we got!"
The second edge of this sword is that the universe is so vast,
encountering intelligent life is highly unlikely, since it is so
difficult to get to other stars. This would explain the lack of evidence
of life on other planets (regardless of how many posts in this NG tell
you its because of gubment coverups)
E.L.: "But we're talking about physical travel. We don't know
everything in creation and we don't know if other possibilites exist.
I'm not opening myself up to abuse because of my views, but we are a
mysterious creation and we haven't fulfilled all of our options. We
don't know what we are capable of or what we are going to achieve in the
future. We may develop a way to travel without a body, but there still
may not be anyone else out there, as we've found so far. Far out, huh?"
I can understand your point of not wanting to waste too much time
worrying and debating about something that will not effect you or me or
mankind for generations (if ever).
E.L.: "Only because no one has any answer and the available ones do
nothing either way. I'd rather read sighting reports where the craft
was definitely a craft and not pinpoints of lights in the distance.
Because even if these pinpoints of lights were doing amazing things,
we'd still be in the dark about what they really are. You know, I've
seen videos on TV taken of the area above Area 51 and you see these
lights doing strange maneuvers and so everyone thinks they're seeing
alien-connected craft being tested. Frankly, since there is no visible
detail, the lights look just like acrobatic kites that you see on the
beaches of the world. They behave just the same way. So, I visualize a
couple of soldiers having a laugh at the expense of the believers 'cause
they know that at the distances they find themselves in, the civilian
UFO viewers won't be able to tell they're kites! And I've yet to see
any telephoto footage of said lights."
I view the argument of life on other planets as just another scientific
discussion--just as interesting (if not a little older) as the story of
diamonds raining out of the skies of Neptune (see Discover Magazine this
month)--another fact that may or may not effect you or me in our
lifetime.
In the end, its an academic discussion about a theory. Im not asking you
to convince me we are alone in the universe, but I AM interest in
hearing why you believe we are alone--if you dont mind wasting some
time.
E.L.: "It's really very simple, for me. As a self-taught skeptic, I've
learned not to rely on hearsay. A lot of people have suffered one way
or another 'cause they were the opposite; they readily accepted what
they were told. Possibly Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is one of the best
examples of a good mind gone bad when he accepted the Coterley Fairies
photos as of real fairies. What happened here? The photos are so phony
it's unbelievable a brain such as his couldn't see the fakiness. He
should have been a skeptic."
I understand if you find the point moot, and don't want to discuss
it--which isn't to say I wouldn't be disappointed.
Finally, if a young whippersnapper can construct a logical, rational
argument, I usually give them the benefit of the doubt.
E.L.: " Not me. I'll consider it but it has to satisfy. Age is not a
factor that automatically carries weight. Especially nowadays when
stupidity seems to be de rigueur. I'll give the benefit of the doubt
when my brain is satisfied, but not before."
Also, you didn't address the topic of cute Nordic blondes--you cant tell
me THAT topic wouldn't effect your life--even at 62... ; )
E.L.: "I didn't possibly because I'm a dark hair man, myself. Perhaps I
could ask the blonde Nordics to hallucinate me a dark-haired beauty so
that the experience could be rewarding for both, me and them. THEM!
Just think, Adrienne Barbeau as an alien. Let ME at her!"
OR