Well, I'm adopted. My aparents adored me. I was a spoiled brat and got
anything I wanted except the truth about my heritage. I felt adopted and
like a freak since I was 3 years old or thereabouts and no shrink ever told
me I was supposed to feel that way. While I think that the "psychological
professon" as a whole is a neat little scam, I doubt if the practicioners have
to go out and make people feel guilty. Amerikan society manages to fiill the
couches quite nicely. Now what's YOUR problem?
By all means neessary
Marley
Bastard Nation
Never blow up a beaver
>Birth parents do a lot of fantasizing that the child is safe,
>loved, happy, warm, thriving, loving back.
We also do a lot of worrying that the child is being abused, that we made a
mistake, that the child will NEVER forgive us, that we messed up the child
forever...plus a lot of guilt. I still can't stand to watch a TV movie or show
that has anything to do with a mother giving up her child. Sophie's Choice
just about did me in.
Some of us also pray for the day that our birthchild will contact us. Even if
it means just giving them a chance to blast us for all the pain we caused
them. Something to give them, even if it's not our hearts they want.
- Jill
From reading your message I get the feeling you are not searching for the
child you surrendered for adoption, is this correct? If so, why aren't
you? My son wasn't searching for me, but he says he is thrilled I found
him. I've answered all the many many questions he's asked and from day
one he has had no problem asking me what he wants to know. I believe it
is because I told him in the first few moments of our conversation that he
should never hesitate to ask me anything and he'd get an honest and
thorough answer. To find my child and hide things or lie to him would be
a total insult to him in my opinion. If he'd cussed me out that would
have been okay, I would have listened because I owe my son, I owe him
anything he needs from me. I was lucky, I have a son that now loves me, a
son that needs me in his life. I waited almost 4 years to hear him say "I
love you", but because I didn't push myself into his life, push him to do
what he wasn't ready for, he loves me. My feelings are not always
popular, but that's okay because the only one I need to be popular with is
my son.
It's just my opinion, but I think we have an obligation to search, why
should they have to go to all the expense and worry that we may reject
them? Why should they have to have questions about how they came into
this world, what diseases are in the family, if their bparents love them,
their true nationality and a host of other questions? When we give birth
to a child IMO we have an obligation to that child until the day we die.
As far as society is concerned we don't have this obligation or right for
that matter, but in the long road what society thinks is not what counts,
it is what God thinks, He is our ultimate judge, not society. If for them
the obligation is just to stay out of their lives then that is what we
have to do. When we find them, if they don't want us in their lives I
also believe we should back off, let our adult child have the power to
decide if they want us in their lives or not. Since they didn't have a
choice about adoption they should have the choice about having us back in
their lives or not. At the very least they will know we loved them enough
to search and that should help them heal a little, at the very best we can
have a relationship with our surrendered child. These almost 4 years have
been extremely difficult, but not nearly so difficult as the almost 29
years of not knowing if he was alive.
As for your rights, you gave birth to this child, you have every right to
know if your child is alive, well, was well taken care of, if they are
happy, had and have a good life. Quit worrying and start some action, you
deserve to know the truth and so does your child.
Wanda
In article <4jp3j8$n...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, wanda...@aol.com
(Wanda66464)
writes:
> Kim,
>
> From reading your message I get the feeling you are not searching for the
> child you surrendered for adoption, is this correct? If so, why aren't
> you?
Because I am not a birthmother, you nitwit. I am a bastard (oops, I mean
"adoptee").
Do not EVER suggest that I am a loathsome enough creature that I would
abandon my own child without a backward glance or a thought for the
consequences. Just because YOU were capable of such a despicable deed does
not mean that everyone else is also a heartless self-centered bitch like you.
It is because of "people" (and I do use that term loosely) like you that
children all over the world are sufferning from abandonment trauma, and I take
great offense at your assumption that I am one of the monsterous creatures
responsible.
In the futrue, try reading this newsgroup for more than three seconds (or
get someone to read it to you, as I know that you are a birthmother and
thus not very intelligent) so that you understand where people are coming
from before you post your useless nonsense.
Lucifer has an extra special place reserved for you and your fellow
birthbitches, I am certain.
- Kim at Pitt.
>As for your rights, you gave birth to this child, you have every right to
>know if your child is alive, well, was well taken care of, if they are
>happy, had and have a good life. Quit worrying and start some action,
you
>deserve to know the truth and so does your child.
WRONG......
When you relinquish your child only the child should have the right as to
any information going to the bparents.......
Arnie
CHIEF of STAFF
Bastard Nation Military Service
Why should a bparent that loves her child make her child go through
searching and all that comes with it along with not knowing whether they
will be rejected or not? Doesn't make sense to me! I do believe that if
the person you search for doesn't want any other communication you should
respect their wishes and wait forever if necessary.
As for not having a right to know if our children are alive, we'll just
have to agree to disagree about that. I gave him life and I have a right
to know if he is still living it.
Wanda
>Hello...
>In article <4jp3j8$n...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, wanda...@aol.com
>(Wanda66464)
>writes:
>
> - Kim at Pitt.
Fuck you, Kim. There are a hell of alot worse things in the world
that can happen to a child besides being adopted. Adoption could
probably even save a child in many cases. Why don't you take all this
angst you have toward your birth mother and use it to spontaneous
combust or something else constructive? If Lucifer has a special
place for me, it will not be because I gave my daughter up for
adoption, it will be because I listened to ranting, angry people like
you, decided to take the guilt trip you offer and killed myself in the
process. So, fuck off and grow up. Not all bmoms are selfish
bitches, in fact, some of us had very little choice in the matter. I
for one and tired of being a target of your rage when I don't deserve
it.
Toni, Bmother
>
Arnie,
I don't understand what you are saying. "only the child....information
going to bparents"? Information from where? To whom?
Peace be with you,
Maria
>WRONG......
>
>When you relinquish your child only the child should have the right as to
>any information going to the bparents.......
Possibly, but we have seen the results of this kind of "closed" adoption
and it ain't pretty.
Birthparents who are denied any information about their children
seem to suffer more for it. . .and hence this "suffering" is likely
to cloud their attitudes regarding reunion. Furthermore, it seems
to me that providing birthparents with information about the adoptee
over the years is a damn good incentive for birthparents to stay in
touch with medical information and their location: sparing
adoptees years of searching and angst.
Of course, if you believe that birthparents deserve to be punished
for their choice to relinquish by denying them any information about
their kids. . .well, then, Arnie's view makes a lot of sense.
Lainie
Lainie Petersen
Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
epe...@lulu.acns.nwu.edu
Just wanted to correct some inaccuracies I saw in this post:
In article <jkerr.695...@sirius.ns.ca>, jk...@sirius.ns.ca (MJK)
writes:
>>Birth parents do a lot of fantasizing that the child is safe,
>>loved, happy, warm, thriving, loving back.
Birth mothers do a lot of fantasizing that the child is abused, hated,
miserable, cold, dying, dead.
> We also do a lot of worrying that the child is being abused, that we made a
> mistake, that the child will NEVER forgive us, that we messed up the child
> forever...plus a lot of guilt. I still can't stand to watch a TV movie or
> show that has anything to do with a mother giving up her child. Sophie's
>Choice just about did me in.
They also do a lot of worrying that the child is actually happy, that they
made a mistake by not having an abortion, that the child will not put up with
their self-serving buck-passing, blame-filled hateful HATE that they will
direct towards him/her, but absolutely no guilt, as the child CERTAINLY
deserved what s/he got. They all love to watch movies depicting the
abandonment and/or abuse of helpless children - kinda gives them a warm
feeling inside.
>
> Some of us also pray for the day that our birthchild will contact us. Even if
> it means just giving them a chance to blast us for all the pain we caused
> them. Something to give them, even if it's not our hearts they want.
Some of them pray for news of the birthchild's death, preferably by
unimaginally horrible abuse. If by some misfortune the child fails to
be destroyed or to self-destruct, they certainly will not tolerate any blame
for all the pain they caused the child - in fact, the adoptee exists to
heal THEIR pain. They won't give the child their hearts, because they don't
have any.
There, that's much more accurate, in my experience.
- Kim at Pitt.
I'm sure Arnie will correct me if I'm wrong...but I took it to mean
that when bparents relinquish their child, they forfeit any rights
to that child at all...not just legally, but any knowledge of that
child. they MADE their decision when they placed that child for
adoption. Any information about the adoptee that is to be given
out to the bparents should be approved by the adoptee, and any
contact should be with the consent of the adoptee. The adoptee
should have the right to made their decision about the relationship..
not the bparents who gave up that right when they signed the papers.
Note: I am not saying that I agree/disagree/whatever with arnie..
just saying what I took his post to mean.
Stephanie
[snip]
} They also do a lot of worrying that the child is actually happy, that they
} made a mistake by not having an abortion, that the child will not put up with
} their self-serving buck-passing, blame-filled hateful HATE that they will
} direct towards him/her, but absolutely no guilt, as the child CERTAINLY
} deserved what s/he got. They all love to watch movies depicting the
} abandonment and/or abuse of helpless children - kinda gives them a warm
} feeling inside.
[snip]
} Some of them pray for news of the birthchild's death, preferably by
} unimaginally horrible abuse. If by some misfortune the child fails to
} be destroyed or to self-destruct, they certainly will not tolerate any blame
} for all the pain they caused the child - in fact, the adoptee exists to
} heal THEIR pain. They won't give the child their hearts, because they don't
} have any.
}
} There, that's much more accurate, in my experience.
}
}
} - Kim at Pitt.
excuse me, I'm just a newcomer to this newsgroup. I hope you are not
serious. This message was sick.
Ann-Marie
--
Ann-Marie Westgate, Honours Mathematics III A__A 9
http://www.netaccess.on.ca/~westgate (=''=)%%%%%
west...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca U U UU
or mail me: Box 1015, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ont. L8S 1C0
I agree w/Marley - we know that we were adopted, noone has to say it, it's
a feeling that comes before conscious knowledge of the fact.
Agree also that the Psych. profession has named things for the worse, but
on this one I think those of us who have been adopted were dealing with
the FEEL ADOPTED feelings, sensations, alienation, etc. etc. before the
psy. profession got their hands on us.
And as Marley knows, I got no problem :-)
Ron
--
-Robert Jordan email List (RJL)
To subscribe send message to rfes...@spider.lloyd.com
"Choose to tangle your threads with ours and be welcome!"
>When you relinquish your child only the child should have
>the right as to any information going to the bparents.......
I disagree. Just as a parent has an obligation to make every possible
provision for her or his child's good care and upbringing, the parent has
a right to know if the child is being properly cared for, and later in
life, to know what became of the child. One of the biggest problems with
closed, secret, anonymous adoption is that the birth parents are deprived
of these rights. Sometimes the cruelty of it is inhuman... for example,
when a birth mother finds out her child is dead nine years after the
event...
aka SMITH
Liberty or Death.
Of course I know YOU are not a birthmother, heaven forbid! EVERYBODY
knows who you are!
I believed the birthmother that wrote the post I was responding to was
also named Kim, if I was wrong that's life. I knew I had to be tough
before I came here so let it fly Kim, I do not intend to do to you what
you choose to do to birthmothers.
Wanda
> In the futrue, try reading this newsgroup for more than three seconds (or
>get someone to read it to you, as I know that you are a birthmother and
>thus not very intelligent) so that you understand where people are coming
>from before you post your useless nonsense.
>
> Lucifer has an extra special place reserved for you and your fellow
>birthbitches, I am certain.
Maybe you should read this newsgroup for more than three seconds.
When I posted this question I was sincerely trying to find an answer.
I did not think that anyone would react so childish and call people
names. I say live and let live but if youve got problems keepem
to yourself.
YOU HAVE SOME REALLY BIG PROBLEMS. SEE A THERAPIST. SOON!!!
Arnie,
I understand. I also have to think about it.
Should any consideration be made for the bmother who was manipulated
into the adoption? If so, under what circumstances?
What about an extremely young bmother? Seems to me that she *may* not
have *wanted* to place the child.
What about adoptees that want to find bparents but aparents won't
give out info?
Do siblings have the right to contact? They didn't relinquish the
right to know their family.
These questions were the first to pop into my mind.
I hope that his life is good, that he does well in school, and has a
loving family. Some days, I just hope that he's alive.
I often remember one particular day in the hospital, when my room-mate's
husband asked me why I was giving up such a lovely child. I can't
remember what I told him, but I remember that he hugged me and cried, so I
must have said something profound. It doesn't feel that way on his
birthday.
What do we think about? So many things.....
>YOU HAVE SOME REALLY BIG PROBLEMS. SEE A THERAPIST. SOON!!!
The ultimate threat--THERAPY!
By all means necessary,
I have thought about my child every day for 26 years. At least, I can't
remember when I didn't think about him. Considering what I had to work
with 26 years ago, I probably did the right thing, but as I've said
before, if I did it was an accident. I was bewildered, confused, and
allowed myself to be led into adoption. Nobody forced me to it, but I
wasn't thinking clearly at all, and you have to remember that in 1970,
getting pregnant and not being married was like the end of the world, at
least in the environment where I grew up. "Nice" people just didn't do
it. I realize now I could have kept my baby and everybody would have quit
talking before long, but I was ashamed and scared at the time, and a lot
more worried about what my parents' friends would think of them than
anything else.
It all seems ridiculous now, what with kids in Jr Hi keeping their babies
every day, but back then it was a desperate situation. I have many
regrets, and can only hope that I did the right thing.
I am sure not blaming anybody else - I've blamed myself for listening to
other people, but never those people. I victimized myself here, and can
only hope that my child didn't suffer for it, and work through the issues
myself now.
Becky Young
Michele Rice
Happily Reunited Birthmom
Check out my Adoption Reunion Page at:
http://members.aol.com/sonfoundme/adoptionreunion.htm
++++++We do not remember days, we remember moments++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Cesare Pavese++++++
kdk...@vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote:
: There, that's much more accurate, in my experience.
Which is, of course, both universal and correct.
-- Susan
____________________________________________________________________________O-
Susan Marie Groppi | "I need what I need, and I
gro...@hcs.harvard.edu | want what I want, and I love whom
http://hcs.harvard.edu/~groppi | I love. That's all." --Nick Lopez
You know, I am really getting sick of all these armchair mental health professionals recommending
therapy to everyone else. Sheesh. Therapy rarely works unless it is sought by the people who are
themselves supposed to receive it.
Lainie
You know, I read somewhere that men with a really small penis constantly
put down other men with really large penises, saying that large penises
are the work of Satan...I read Pitt's posts, and think "Thou dost protest
too loudly." Hee, Haaa, but then, as for brain size as well as penis
size, we all know that it's not how big it is, it's how you use it. In
some cases, it would be best if it wasn't used at all. Some people keep
on trying, thinking that sooner or later they are going to get a standing
ovation out of someone...What were you thinking, trying to respond to
Pitt? Haa, Haa, Hee????? Gerry
>
My b-mom died before I searched for her but I had the honor of meeting
her best friend last year. She said my mother talked about me all the
time. I was her only child - a daughter. Relinquishing me was the one
thing she regretted so much in her life but she knew she'd never live
to see me. She had cancer for 19 years when she finally died not long
after her 36th birthday. Had she kept me, most of my life would have
been filled with memories of her suffering. She always thought about
me and wondered what I was doing, if I was OK. When her best friend
had a daughter my mom SPOILED her and every time they were together she
would wonder aloud what I was doing at that moment. She never forgot,
nor do any birth mothers. Some may appear cold after a reunion due to
their own guilt or the fact that now they must face their families,
themselves and society for something that happened years ago, something
that was considered a "disgrace" back in the day. EVERYONE I've met
whose life my mother touched has told me that had she lived she would
have tried to find me. Although she is gone she lives through me. My
room is filled with her pictures and her belongings and her face
appears every time I look into a mirror.
>I am sure not blaming anybody else - I've blamed myself for listening to
>other people, but never those people. I victimized myself here, and can
>only hope that my child didn't suffer for it, and work through the issues
>myself now.
>
>Becky Young
>
>
Becky,
I was really glad to read your post. You sound like a wonderful person.
I hope you child decides to find you and that he does.
Your attitude is one of humility, and hopefully you will be rewarded.
My aparents are great. They are open and supportive of my search. My
amom's brother and his wife have adopted 3 kids...actually they are all
over 18 now....Since my reunion they have flipped out....so the
family...my afamily all the way to my agrandparents have told them to
get fucked. My bmom is totally mellow. We talk about being friends.
There's no need for either of us to fill in gaps in each others
being...I did not search to find someone to fix my problems.
AND KIM....I was actually the one who had all those horrific thoughts
about my bmom...not the other way around. I feared the worst. Not
so sick and twisted, like you so graphically described, but I feared
she had some terrible life. I am glad I was wrong. I am not sure why
you have so much anger. Have you been rejected/abandoned "again" (as you
put it)? Or do you just enjoy being an instigator? I'd bet on the
latter.
~Leigh~
Augu...@ix.netcom.com (augu...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
:
: >
: My b-mom died before I searched for her but I had the honor of meeting
If you read the post I was replying to you would feel the same way.
So maybe you should be informed before you write.
When in 1970?
>>kdk...@vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote:
>> Lucifer has an extra special place reserved for you and your fellow
>>birthbitches, I am certain.
>>
>> - Kim at Pitt.
>Fuck you, Kim. There are a hell of alot worse things in the world
>that can happen to a child besides being adopted.
Aw, don't worry about it, Toni. This thing with Kim is cyclic: she spews
about birthmoms in the most vile terms, then every eqinox or so seems to
have a public change of heart and posts a public apology to the birthmoms
she has wronged, only to get back on the birthmom basher's bandwagon
shortly afterward. It's a bunch of shit and she knows it. She just can't
resist applying her well-honed talent for flaming to those who truly
deserve it.
Nicole
Nikc...@aol.com
I am a birthmother of a 28 year old son; the last time I saw him was on
his 4th or 5th day of life. In the time between then and now, I'm thought
of him almost every day. There are no words to describe the feelings I
have regarding my son; no way of accurately communicating the devastating
emotional loss I will feel forever. For those of you who know nothing of
what it was like in the late 60's as far as the issue of "illegitmate"
pregnancies is concerned, I can only say....count your blessings. No one
held a gun to my head, but in many ways the coercion to place my child for
adoption at that time was as real and frightening....it was simply
achieved by less physical means. I loved my child from the moment I knew
he existed and nothing has changed in all these years. I never felt I had
the right to search for him; never wanted to interrupt his life or cause
him any discomfort...but now I fear he will have the same angry, bitter
feelings I've seen displayed on this board. I don't want him to think I
abandoned him, or gave him up for reasons of convenience.
And, Kim, I'm not a "bitch" who deserves to burn in hell or wherever it is
you think we bmothers should spend eternity. I'm a decent, kind
individual who made the mistake of listening to society and others...some
with a vested interest in having me place a child for adoption. I'm sorry
your life is such that your heart has no ability to feel empathy or
compassion...nor your mind the maturity to realize that your rather sad
experience does not give you the right to make such sweeping
condemnations.
Elizabeth
If he's in college you might not want to disrupt his studies. I wasn't
ready to search until I was finished with college (and some grad
school). You may want to wait until he's graduated since reunion is an
extremely emotionally draining experience. I'm an adoptee, btw.
A.