"In the Name of God"

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BitterHarvest

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Dec 4, 2006, 2:46:47 AM12/4/06
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Cathedral of Copenhaguen.

http://www.aidoh.dk/phpdocs/photo/showPhoto.php?photoID=11665&quality=web

http://www.aidoh.dk/new-struct/Happenings-and-Projects/2006/In-the-Name-of-God/Cathedral.htm

Excerpt from the site:
"In the Name of God"
"The copper sculpture depicts a pregnant teenager in natural size
crucified on a big cross. It is a harsh comment to the impact of the
fundamentalist branch of the Christian church..."

Dad

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Dec 4, 2006, 9:36:30 AM12/4/06
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On Dec 4, 2:46 am, "BitterHarvest" <patrice...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> Cathedral of Copenhaguen.
>
> http://www.aidoh.dk/phpdocs/photo/showPhoto.php?photoID=11665&quality...
>
> http://www.aidoh.dk/new-struct/Happenings-and-Projects/2006/In-the-Na...


>
> Excerpt from the site:
> "In the Name of God"
> "The copper sculpture depicts a pregnant teenager in natural size
> crucified on a big cross. It is a harsh comment to the impact of the
> fundamentalist branch of the Christian church..."


<> The copper sculpture depicts a pregnant teenager in natural size
crucified on a big cross. It is a harsh comment to the impact of the

fundamentalist branch of the Christian church, with President Bush and
the Pope in the lead, on contraception and sexual education. Women,
including teenagers, bear the brunt of the disastrous consequences of
the ban on condoms based on ´Christian´ morality. <>

I searched for the word "adoption" on this site and came up empty.
Although the sculpture is certainly provocative, I'm not aware of
anyone here who opposes access to condoms or sexual education. Quite
the contrary, I'm sure.

So, what's the purpose of posting it to this adoption newgroup,
snookums? A pregnant teenager in this country is less likely
relinquish her baby than her older, more educated counterpart.

She's 50+ times more likely to keep her child and 33+ times more likely
to seek an abortion than to relinquish her baby for adoption, despite
the best efforts of the Pope and GWB to deny her access to condoms and
sexual education. Perhaps you could petition the artist to rename the
sculpture "Di On The Cross".

I've got a couple of holocaust websites if you need them.

Dad

Rhiannon

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Dec 4, 2006, 11:04:31 AM12/4/06
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http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2006/12/01/2576853-ap.html
Danish artist raises eyebrowns on World AIDS Day
By JAN M. OLSEN

COPENHAGEN, Denmark (AP) - A provocative Danish artist raised a statue
of a crucified pregnant teenager outside Copenhagen's Lutheran
cathedral to mark World AIDS Day on Friday
Jens Galschioet said the sculpture was meant as a protest against
Christian fundamentalists and the idea that "God allows nothing but
chastity and unprotected sex." He said he chose a pregnant teenager for
his artwork "because they are the hardest hit by AIDS."
Galschioet received permission from city authorities to erect the
statue, named "In the Name of God," outside the cathedral.
The statue raised few eyebrows in the secular Danish capital. Even the
clergy appeared unmoved.
"It's a good supplement to the crucifix we have inside the church,"
said Anders Gadegaard, the cathedral's dean.
Galschioet said he would try to have copies of his statue displayed
next year in Nairobi, Kenya, the Vatican and Dallas.
In the 1990s, Galschioet set up statues with a pig's head in various
European cities to address what he called growing racism and
intolerance in Europe. In 1999, Hong Kong university students put up
another of his sculptures honouring the victims of the 1989 massacre of
pro-democracy protesters in Beijing's Tiananmen Square.

Robin Harritt

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Dec 4, 2006, 2:36:24 PM12/4/06
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in article 1165242990.1...@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com, Dad at
adopt...@comcast.net wrote on 4/12/06 14:36:

I agree with the concept. There should indeed be a harsh comment made '...


to the impact of the fundamentalist branch of the Christian church, with
President Bush and the Pope in the lead, on contraception and sexual

education...' All of which has not a lot to do with adoption. But much to
do with AIDS throughout the world. There are lot of babies born to teenage
girls in Africa and the third world who are born HIV pos. That is down to
the wrong moral attitude of the Church, isn't that the point Jens Galschiot
is trying to make?


It's certainly not about forced adoption in the past as Di and her cronies
seem to think. And, good protestant girls around these parts would have
found it difficult to buy condoms. That at a time when GWB was still in
short pants. In the 1950s and 60s the whole of society's attitudes were that
no good girl should be having sex before marriage, therefore no need for
contraception to be available to unmarried women.


I expect Di will be back shortly to insist that it was conceived, sculpted,
cast and erected by Origins Inc or one of its tawdry little offshoots.
Everything else is down them, why not this.


Robin

*


Kathy

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Dec 4, 2006, 4:12:42 PM12/4/06
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BitterHarvest wrote:

> Cathedral of Copenhaguen.
>
> http://www.aidoh.dk/phpdocs/photo/showPhoto.php?photoID=11665&quality=web
>
> http://www.aidoh.dk/new-struct/Happenings-and-Projects/2006/In-the-Name-of-God/Cathedral.htm
>
> Excerpt from the site:
> "In the Name of God"
> "The copper sculpture depicts a pregnant teenager in natural size
> crucified on a big cross.

Di, is that you nailed up there on the cross?

Kathy

<snip>

yts

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Dec 4, 2006, 6:32:58 PM12/4/06
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Steve White

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Dec 7, 2006, 12:32:27 AM12/7/06
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In article <1165218407.4...@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>,
"BitterHarvest" <patri...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Yawn. Been there, saw the crucifix in the jug of urine. Big deal.

You want something that will really offend, something really
avant-garde? After all, that's the definition of art these days,
speaking truth to power and offending the official political structure.

Here goes --

A copper sculpture of a pregnant teen half-buried in a pit being stoned
by a group of middle-eastern men, in a harsh comment to the impact of
the fundamentalist branch of Islam.

That won't happen. It'll never be done.

Why?

Because a fundamentalist Christian won't behead you.

steve

Marley Greiner

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Dec 7, 2006, 2:46:00 AM12/7/06
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"Steve White" <st...@spam.me.never> wrote in message
news:steve-116511....@newsgroups.comcast.net...


The only blow up clinics and shoot doctors.

Marley


Robin Harritt

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Dec 7, 2006, 3:24:47 AM12/7/06
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in article YEPdh.162927$Fi1....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, Marley
Greiner at maddog...@worldnet.att.net wrote on 7/12/06 07:46:

Mind you, if Di had her way as a fundamentalist antiadoptionist

http://groups.msn.com/ForgottenMothers-/general.msnw?action=get_message&mvie
w=1&ID_Message=50085

<quote>

These stories need to be exposed and the culprits flogged within an inch of
their lives....

.... I hope that social worker burns in hell. And the sooner the better.....
preferably while she is still alive and tied to a stake.

<end quote>


Now where does that imagery come from?


I reckon Di and her cronies from 'Forgotten Mothers' wouldn't mind a few
stonings and crucifixions if they could cast the first stone, hammer the
nails in.

Robin

*


Robibnikoff

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Dec 7, 2006, 8:50:02 AM12/7/06
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"Steve White" <st...@spam.me.never> wrote in message
news:steve-116511....@newsgroups.comcast.net...

No, they'll just beat you to death :P
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557


J.

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Dec 7, 2006, 9:56:14 AM12/7/06
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Maybe not. I'd love to see it, though, if only as part of a larger
history of humanity's ability to brutalize its members. We can
represent all nations, each era, and every religious belief in a
pantheon of pain.

>
> Why?
>
> Because a fundamentalist Christian won't behead you.

I'm not sure of the link between the two, Steve. I'd say the reason we
won't see your particular concept in bronze (copper is so tacky) is
that it doesn't happen here and an artist foolish enough to create it
in an area where this occurs wouldn't be creating anything else.

Der J.


>
>
>
>
>
> steve

Steve White

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Dec 7, 2006, 12:33:12 PM12/7/06
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In article <1165503374....@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>,
"J." <jmd...@aol.com> wrote:


> > Here goes --
> >
> > A copper sculpture of a pregnant teen half-buried in a pit being
> > stoned by a group of middle-eastern men, in a harsh comment to the
> > impact of the fundamentalist branch of Islam.
> >
> > That won't happen. It'll never be done.
>
> Maybe not. I'd love to see it, though, if only as part of a larger
> history of humanity's ability to brutalize its members. We can
> represent all nations, each era, and every religious belief in a
> pantheon of pain.


Which would never be done by our brave artist who subscribes to the
progressive mantra --

-- all cultures are equal except our own, which is inferior.

That's why he'll slam a fundamentalist Christian but not an Islamicist.


> > Why?
> >
> > Because a fundamentalist Christian won't behead you.
>
> I'm not sure of the link between the two, Steve. I'd say the reason
> we won't see your particular concept in bronze (copper is so tacky)
> is that it doesn't happen here and an artist foolish enough to create
> it in an area where this occurs wouldn't be creating anything else.


Link is pretty obvious to me. Fundamental Christians sometimes can be
foolish (I kill snakes, I don't handle them), but overall they're pretty
harmless. They recognize the secular and the religious spaces and see
each as separate.

Our jihadi buddies don't see that difference whatsoever. Insult their
prophet, insult their ways? Beheading, baby. Nothing less will do.

And our brave artist knows this. Which is why, in the safety and comfort
of the western world, he'll make his inane 'statement' about fundamental
Christians and garner the applause of knuckleheaded art critics and
hippie chicks.

But he won't dare insult those who just might, possibly, conceivably,
kill him. That wouldn't do. And it might happen here; witness the
response to the Danish newspaper that published a few tacky cartoons.

Moral courage isn't something you generally find in today's art.


steve

Steve White

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Dec 7, 2006, 12:34:16 PM12/7/06
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In article <4tqk7jF...@mid.individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:

> > Here goes --
> >
> > A copper sculpture of a pregnant teen half-buried in a pit being
> > stoned by a group of middle-eastern men, in a harsh comment to the
> > impact of the fundamentalist branch of Islam.
> >
> > That won't happen. It'll never be done.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > Because a fundamentalist Christian won't behead you.
>
> No, they'll just beat you to death :P


I must have missed that event, have a reference? I don't recall a
fundamental Christian beating anyone to death after a brave, brave
artist put a crucifix in a jug of urine and called it 'art'.


steve

Steve White

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Dec 7, 2006, 12:37:38 PM12/7/06
to
In article <YEPdh.162927$Fi1....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Marley Greiner" <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> > Here goes --
> >
> > A copper sculpture of a pregnant teen half-buried in a pit being
> > stoned by a group of middle-eastern men, in a harsh comment to the
> > impact of the fundamentalist branch of Islam.
> >
> > That won't happen. It'll never be done.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > Because a fundamentalist Christian won't behead you.
> >
> >

> The only blow up clinics and shoot doctors.


And remember the response to Eric Rudolph who gunned down an abortion
doctor? I do --

A FBI task force led by people appointed by George Bush hunted Eric
Rudolph down.

A Department of Justice led by people appointed by George Bush gathered
the evicdence.

A federal prosecutor appointed by George Bush brought him to trial.

A judge appointed by George Bush ensured a fair trial and an appropriate
sentence.

A federal prison run by people appointed by George Bush has him jugged
today.

Damn that George Bush.

The clinic bombers? Caught, tried, convicted, jugged.

It's sad to see you buy the progressive mantra, I always thought you to
be an anarchist republican.


steve

Marley Greiner

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Dec 7, 2006, 1:46:25 PM12/7/06
to

"Steve White" <swh...@you.still.don.t.get.this> wrote in message
news:swhite-D260C8....@news.uchicago.edu...

And you don't think that the likes of Eric Rudolph and Paul Hill have big
support with anti-aborts? Think again. There's whole "ministries" whose
sole task is to aid and comfort them. The more "moderate" folks, like OSA,
OR-W, etc make public statements against clinic violence but they support
it clandestinely and quietly. One of our local doctors has put up a webpage
where he documents clinic patients, posts their license plate numbers and
also the personal information of abortion providers. It's one step behind
the Nuremburg Files. This doctor also believes that abortion providers
should be executed under God's law--not to mention gays and lesbians. I
asked him once what happens if somebody takes him seriously and whacks a
provider. He told me that's not his problem. These whiteboy Christian
fundies are terrorists, but no much will be done about them. They hate
Bush, too, whom they consider pro-abortion and pro-queer. the line goes
from Dobson and Robertson right to Rudolph and Hill (Hill was associated
with Regents) and the lesser scum. like Michael Bray, Fr. Marx, Johathan
O'Toole, The Spingnolas, and Neal Horsley.

Marley


Robibnikoff

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Dec 7, 2006, 2:00:02 PM12/7/06
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"Steve White" <swh...@you.still.don.t.get.this> wrote in message
news:swhite-CC0A2D....@news.uchicago.edu...

So what? If you notice I didn't mention a specific incident.

Marley Greiner

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Dec 7, 2006, 2:00:01 PM12/7/06
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com>
Newsgroups: alt.adoption
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: "In the Name of God"


>
> "Steve White" <swh...@you.still.don.t.get.this> wrote in message
> news:swhite-CC0A2D....@news.uchicago.edu...
>> In article <4tqk7jF...@mid.individual.net>,
>> "Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > Here goes --
>>> >
>>> > A copper sculpture of a pregnant teen half-buried in a pit being
>>> > stoned by a group of middle-eastern men, in a harsh comment to the
>>> > impact of the fundamentalist branch of Islam.
>>> >
>>> > That won't happen. It'll never be done.
>>> >
>>> > Why?
>>> >
>>> > Because a fundamentalist Christian won't behead you.
>>>
>>> No, they'll just beat you to death :P
>>
>>
>> I must have missed that event, have a reference? I don't recall a
>> fundamental Christian beating anyone to death after a brave, brave
>> artist put a crucifix in a jug of urine and called it 'art'.

And that's right where fundies have dunked it. Only they call it politics.

Marley
>

Rhiannon

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Dec 7, 2006, 3:19:52 PM12/7/06
to
>Steve White wrote:
>
> Moral courage isn't something you generally find in today's art.
>
>
Do you think art should be judged on moral considerations rather than
or at least as much as aesthetic ones?

J.

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Dec 7, 2006, 6:57:46 PM12/7/06
to

Equally so, if it purports to be a form of social criticism.

J.

J.

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Dec 7, 2006, 7:05:38 PM12/7/06
to

Hadn't occurred to me that a western artist would be terribly concerned
about being killed by jihadists, but what do I know.


> And our brave artist knows this. Which is why, in the safety and comfort
> of the western world, he'll make his inane 'statement' about fundamental
> Christians and garner the applause of knuckleheaded art critics and
> hippie chicks.
>
> But he won't dare insult those who just might, possibly, conceivably,
> kill him. That wouldn't do. And it might happen here; witness the
> response to the Danish newspaper that published a few tacky cartoons.
>
> Moral courage isn't something you generally find in today's art.

Why limit it to art? I don't see much evidence of moral courage in
society generally, except among the fringe elements, right, left, and
in orbit. Go along and get along is the motto of the day.

J.
>
>
>
>
> steve

pb...

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Dec 7, 2006, 8:16:27 PM12/7/06
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In article <1165242990.1...@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>, Dad says...

>
>
>
>On Dec 4, 2:46 am, "BitterHarvest" <patrice...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> Cathedral of Copenhaguen.
>>
>> http://www.aidoh.dk/phpdocs/photo/showPhoto.php?photoID=3D11665&quality...

>>
>> http://www.aidoh.dk/new-struct/Happenings-and-Projects/2006/In-the-Na...
>>
>> Excerpt from the site:
>> "In the Name of God"
>> "The copper sculpture depicts a pregnant teenager in natural size
>> crucified on a big cross. It is a harsh comment to the impact of the
>> fundamentalist branch of the Christian church..."
>
>
><> The copper sculpture depicts a pregnant teenager in natural size
>crucified on a big cross. It is a harsh comment to the impact of the
>fundamentalist branch of the Christian church, with President Bush and
>the Pope in the lead, on contraception and sexual education. Women,
>including teenagers, bear the brunt of the disastrous consequences of
>the ban on condoms based on "Christian" morality. <>

<above text left in place for context>

>She's 50+ times more likely to keep her child and 33+ times more likely
>to seek an abortion than to relinquish her baby for adoption, despite
>the best efforts of the Pope and GWB to deny her access to condoms and
>sexual education. Perhaps you could petition the artist to rename the
>sculpture "Di On The Cross".

These stats, I'm assuming, are USA based, right? The comment left in
context above would surely MORE than apply to what GWB and his ilk have
done to our cousins in 3rd world countries...unfortunately, I fail to
note if there was mention of AIDS? No condoms! insists GWB, et al.,
along with preaching the grand gospel of abstinence, and we all know
what a whale of a success that program has been. At its source this has
nothing to do with adoption, so you're right on that score, Dad.

<snip>

>Dad
>

pb...

pb...

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Dec 7, 2006, 8:18:32 PM12/7/06
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In article <1165266762.8...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Kathy says...

Could any one of us, Kathy.

pb...

pb...

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Dec 7, 2006, 8:20:31 PM12/7/06
to
In article <YEPdh.162927$Fi1....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Marley
Greiner says...

Bless you.

pb...

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Dec 7, 2006, 8:29:38 PM12/7/06
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In article <5kZdh.445055$QZ1.3...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Marley
Greiner says...

Leave it to our Marley to be so well informed about these gutter
sucks. My only thought, alas, as I read steve's lil list was "My,
goodnees! We surely did spend a whole ton of $$$$$$ on that pissant
murdering SOB" ...and will continue to do so until his last putrid
breath.

pb...

Kathy

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Dec 7, 2006, 8:56:50 PM12/7/06
to

Speak for yourself.

Kathy

Rhiannon

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Dec 7, 2006, 8:57:25 PM12/7/06
to
It sets itself up for that, but I also think ultimately you still have
to judge the effectiveness of art, even *as social criticism* on
aesthetic grounds. And IMO as a piece of art this doesn't have impact.

rkb...@pacific.net.sg

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Dec 7, 2006, 9:14:08 PM12/7/06
to

Steve White wrote:

> Here goes --
>
> A copper sculpture of a pregnant teen half-buried in a pit being stoned
> by a group of middle-eastern men, in a harsh comment to the impact of
> the fundamentalist branch of Islam.
>
> That won't happen. It'll never be done.
>
> Why?
>

Actually IIRC, because they won't stone her while she's pregnant.
They'll wait until after she has the baby.

Also because Islam generally prohibits representation of the human
form. (Though for some reason there's a whole genre of miniature
painting in India that flourished during the Moghul rule under court
patronage.)

Steve White

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Dec 8, 2006, 12:23:01 AM12/8/06
to
In article <4tr6crF...@mid.individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:


Hokay, so mention one. It helps to have one example (preferably more) if
you're going to accuse a whole group of people of beating others to
death.


steve

Steve White

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Dec 8, 2006, 12:25:35 AM12/8/06
to
In article <1165522792.7...@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Rhiannon" <llewel...@hotmail.com> wrote:


A fair number of artists today claim to be the ones with the superior
morality. Okay, as J says, what do I know? Certain my aesthetics are
different from theirs.

But that's your claim, Mister Artist, sir, how 'bout proving it?

steve

Steve White

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Dec 8, 2006, 12:26:06 AM12/8/06
to
In article <1165543045.0...@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>,
"Rhiannon" <llewel...@hotmail.com> wrote:


Oh, we're in agreement on that.

steve

Steve White

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Dec 8, 2006, 12:28:13 AM12/8/06
to
In article <1165544048.1...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"rkb...@pacific.net.sg" <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote:

> Steve White wrote:
>
> > Here goes --
> >
> > A copper sculpture of a pregnant teen half-buried in a pit being
> > stoned by a group of middle-eastern men, in a harsh comment to the
> > impact of the fundamentalist branch of Islam.
> >
> > That won't happen. It'll never be done.
> >
> > Why?
> >
>
> Actually IIRC, because they won't stone her while she's pregnant.
> They'll wait until after she has the baby.


They won't do it then, either.


>
> Also because Islam generally prohibits representation of the human
> form. (Though for some reason there's a whole genre of miniature
> painting in India that flourished during the Moghul rule under court
> patronage.)

Not quite the point. There's an entire group of Christians, the
iconoclasts, that don't like depiction of the human form. They don't
behead anyone over it (not for the past ten centuries, anyways).

steve

pb...

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Dec 8, 2006, 9:20:06 AM12/8/06
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In article <1165543009....@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Kathy says...

I believe that's exactly what I did, Kathy.

Dad

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Dec 8, 2006, 3:34:37 PM12/8/06
to

On Dec 8, 12:28 am, Steve White <s...@spam.me.never> wrote:
> In article <1165544048.134432.327...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,


>
>
>
>
>
> "rkb...@pacific.net.sg" <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote:
> > Steve White wrote:
>
> > > Here goes --
>
> > > A copper sculpture of a pregnant teen half-buried in a pit being
> > > stoned by a group of middle-eastern men, in a harsh comment to the
> > > impact of the fundamentalist branch of Islam.
>
> > > That won't happen. It'll never be done.
>
> > > Why?
>
> > Actually IIRC, because they won't stone her while she's pregnant.

> > They'll wait until after she has the baby.They won't do it then, either.


>
>
>
> > Also because Islam generally prohibits representation of the human
> > form. (Though for some reason there's a whole genre of miniature
> > painting in India that flourished during the Moghul rule under court
> > patronage.)
> Not quite the point. There's an entire group of Christians, the
> iconoclasts, that don't like depiction of the human form. They don't
> behead anyone over it (not for the past ten centuries, anyways).

The Amish are included in this group of Christians that don't like
depiction of the human form. That includes tourists who take pictures
of them. I don't recall the Amish beheading any tourists lately,
although almost all of them snap away the first chance they get.

The Amish community showed incredible grace a few months ago when they
attended the funeral of the man who shot to death four of their
children.

Dad

Kathy

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Dec 8, 2006, 4:17:18 PM12/8/06
to

"Could any one of us, Kathy" ? Maybe you could rephrase it to read,
"That could be me nailed up there on the cross"?

Fwiw, my comments to Di were warrented because she compared the plight
of HIV victims to her own plight as uh, umm,...I think a *forgotten
mother*.

Kathy

Kathy

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Dec 8, 2006, 4:20:57 PM12/8/06
to

Oh absolutely, Dad.

They showed what forgiveness and Christianity is all about. I'm not
sure I could do the same if this had been one of my children/grand
children who were murdered in cold blood.

Kathy

Rhiannon

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Dec 8, 2006, 5:27:59 PM12/8/06
to
Kathy wrote:
> pb... wrote:
> > In article <1165543009....@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Kathy says...
> > >
> > >
> > >pb... wrote:
> > >>In article <1165266762.8...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Kathy says...
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >BitterHarvest wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Cathedral of Copenhaguen.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> http://www.aidoh.dk/phpdocs/photo/showPhoto.php?photoID=11665&quality=web
> > >> >>
> > >>>>http://www.aidoh.dk/new-struct/Happenings-and-Projects/2006/In-the-Name-of-God/Cathedral.htm
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Excerpt from the site:
> > >> >> "In the Name of God"
> > >> >> "The copper sculpture depicts a pregnant teenager in natural size
> > >> >> crucified on a big cross.
> > >> >
> > >> >Di, is that you nailed up there on the cross?
> > >> >
> > >> >Kathy
> > >> >
> > >> ><snip>
> > >>
> > >> Could any one of us, Kathy.
> > >>
> > >> pb...
> > >
> > >Speak for yourself.
> > >
> > >Kathy
> >
> > I believe that's exactly what I did, Kathy.
>
> "Could any one of us, Kathy" ? Maybe you could rephrase it to read,
> "That could be me nailed up there on the cross"?

Exactly, Kathy.
When you said "Speak for yourself", you could have been speaking for me
:-)

>
> Fwiw, my comments to Di were warrented because she compared the plight
> of HIV victims to her own plight as uh, umm,...I think a *forgotten
> mother*.

I share your feelings about the co-opting too. Any concievable
bandwagon will do for Di.
(and I don't even think this thing works as a political statement, let
alone art)


>
> Kathy

Rhiannon

unread,
Dec 8, 2006, 5:31:17 PM12/8/06
to
Kathy wrote:
> pb... wrote:
> > In article <1165543009....@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Kathy says...
> > >
> > >
> > >pb... wrote:
> > >>In article <1165266762.8...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Kathy says...
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >BitterHarvest wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Cathedral of Copenhaguen.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> http://www.aidoh.dk/phpdocs/photo/showPhoto.php?photoID=11665&quality=web
> > >> >>
> > >>>>http://www.aidoh.dk/new-struct/Happenings-and-Projects/2006/In-the-Name-of-God/Cathedral.htm
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Excerpt from the site:
> > >> >> "In the Name of God"
> > >> >> "The copper sculpture depicts a pregnant teenager in natural size
> > >> >> crucified on a big cross.
> > >> >
> > >> >Di, is that you nailed up there on the cross?
> > >> >
> > >> >Kathy
> > >> >
> > >> ><snip>
> > >>
> > >> Could any one of us, Kathy.
> > >>
> > >> pb...
> > >
> > >Speak for yourself.
> > >
> > >Kathy
> >
> > I believe that's exactly what I did, Kathy.
>
> "Could any one of us, Kathy" ? Maybe you could rephrase it to read,
> "That could be me nailed up there on the cross"?

Exactly, Kathy.
You said, "Speak for yourself".
But you could have been speaking for me :-)

>
> Fwiw, my comments to Di were warrented because she compared the plight
> of HIV victims to her own plight as uh, umm,...I think a *forgotten
> mother*.

I share your feelings about the co-opting too. Any concievable

rkb...@pacific.net.sg

unread,
Dec 9, 2006, 1:42:25 AM12/9/06
to

Dad wrote:
> On Dec 8, 12:28 am, Steve White <s...@spam.me.never> wrote:
> > In article <1165544048.134432.327...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "rkb...@pacific.net.sg" <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote:
> > > Steve White wrote:
> >
> > > > Here goes --
> >
> > > > A copper sculpture of a pregnant teen half-buried in a pit being
> > > > stoned by a group of middle-eastern men, in a harsh comment to the
> > > > impact of the fundamentalist branch of Islam.
> >
> > > > That won't happen. It'll never be done.
> >
> > > > Why?
> >
> > > Actually IIRC, because they won't stone her while she's pregnant.
> > > They'll wait until after she has the baby.They won't do it then, either.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Also because Islam generally prohibits representation of the human
> > > form. (Though for some reason there's a whole genre of miniature
> > > painting in India that flourished during the Moghul rule under court
> > > patronage.)

> > Not quite the point. There's an entire group of Christians, the
> > iconoclasts, that don't like depiction of the human form. They don't
> > behead anyone over it (not for the past ten centuries, anyways).

Actually, I was arguing that this was one reason such a statue would be
unlikely. I wasn't actually attempting a discussion on relative merits
of religious belief. I personally think all religions have a potential
for violence among their followers, and fortunately only a minority of
the followers actually are violent.

> The Amish community showed incredible grace a few months ago when they
> attended the funeral of the man who shot to death four of their
> children.

Completely true. Amazing grace.

Kathy

unread,
Dec 9, 2006, 4:22:49 PM12/9/06
to

:-)

Yep.

> (and I don't even think this thing works as a political statement, let
> alone art)
>
>

No, I don't either. What a precious waste of metal.

Kathy

Steve White

unread,
Dec 9, 2006, 4:27:03 PM12/9/06
to
In article <1165610077.8...@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Dad" <adopt...@comcast.net> wrote:


Remember the Amish girl that asked the killer to kill her first, so as
to try to save the others? What a brave young woman filled with grace. I
can only hope to have her kind of courage. I don't think I do.


steve

Jordan

unread,
Dec 14, 2006, 1:40:45 PM12/14/06
to

J. wrote:

> Steve White wrote:
> > Link is pretty obvious to me. Fundamental Christians sometimes can be
> > foolish (I kill snakes, I don't handle them), but overall they're pretty
> > harmless. They recognize the secular and the religious spaces and see
> > each as separate.
> >
> > Our jihadi buddies don't see that difference whatsoever. Insult their
> > prophet, insult their ways? Beheading, baby. Nothing less will do.
>
> Hadn't occurred to me that a western artist would be terribly concerned
> about being killed by jihadists, but what do I know.

Last time I looked, the Netherlands were considered part of the Western
world.

So, what do you think Theo van Gogh's _next_ movie will be about?

- Jordan

J.

unread,
Dec 14, 2006, 4:07:00 PM12/14/06
to

As I said, but what do I know?

I wasn't familier with van Gogh's story, but from what I read just now
even he wasn't terribly concerned about the results of his work.
Wrongly, it seems.

"Working from a script written by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, van Gogh created the
10-minute movie Submission. The movie deals with the topic of violence
against women in Islamic societies; telling the stories of four abused
Muslim women. The title itself, "Submission", is the translation of the
word "Islam" in English. In the film, the women's naked bodies are
veiled with semi-transparent shrouds as they kneel in prayer, telling
their stories as if they are speaking to Allah. Qur'anic verses
unfavourable to women are painted on their bodies in Arabic. After the
movie was released in 2004, both van Gogh and Hirsi Ali received death
threats. Van Gogh did not take these very seriously and refused any
protection - reportedly telling Hirsi Ali: "Who would want to kill the
village idiot?""

For those as ignorant as I:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)

J.

Btw, his next film will be "Visions of Hell".

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