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Getting unadopted?

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rkbose

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Aug 15, 2001, 12:42:49 AM8/15/01
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Di has proposed an interesting idea: that an adult adoptee should be
permitted to nullify their own adoption if they so choose.

This is not like Kim giving up being adopted, where she decided to keep
her existing parents but just relinquished the status. This would mean
giving back the parents (or keeping them as fosters) and getting your
first parents back.

I'd be interested in a poll: Do people like the idea, and why; or not,
and why not?

Rupa

Kathy

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Aug 15, 2001, 1:13:36 AM8/15/01
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>Subject: Getting unadopted?
>From: rkbose rkb...@pacific.net.sg
>Date: 8/14/01 9:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3B79FDC9...@pacific.net.sg>

Since I'm not adopted, I cannot really say.
I guess it would be like me saying that at age 50 I'd rather be adopted so I'll
give up my bio family where the seeds have already been planted and nearly
harvested... Impossible to do, and besides that I'm not that adoptable..;)


>Rupa


Ron Morgan

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Aug 15, 2001, 2:08:41 AM8/15/01
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"rkbose" <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
news:3B79FDC9...@pacific.net.sg...

> Di has proposed an interesting idea: that an adult adoptee should be
> permitted to nullify their own adoption if they so choose.
>
> This is not like Kim giving up being adopted, where she decided to keep
> her existing parents but just relinquished the status. This would mean
> giving back the parents (or keeping them as fosters) and getting your
> first parents back.

And what if the first parents don't want them back... Do they have any say
in this proposed process?

Ron

Message has been deleted

Dian

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Aug 15, 2001, 7:15:58 AM8/15/01
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rkbose <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message news:<3B79FDC9...@pacific.net.sg>...

A free man could make that choice, Rupa. Think of how much easier it
would have been if all adoptees could unadopt themselves, get hold of
their OBC
as a non-adopted person, and if they then wish, readopt themselves
back to their aparants, making it their choice at last. Now that is a
person with human rights.


Di


Di

Dian

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Aug 15, 2001, 7:25:32 AM8/15/01
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"Ron Morgan" <morg...@home.com> wrote in message news:<Jloe7.3016$Wm3.1...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>...

> "rkbose" <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
> news:3B79FDC9...@pacific.net.sg...
> > Di has proposed an interesting idea: that an adult adoptee should be
> > permitted to nullify their own adoption if they so choose.
> >
> > This is not like Kim giving up being adopted, where she decided to keep
> > her existing parents but just relinquished the status. This would mean
> > giving back the parents (or keeping them as fosters) and getting your
> > first parents back.
>
> And what if the first parents don't want them back... Do they have any say
> in this proposed process?
>
> Ron
>

It wouldn't require reclaiming the relationship with them,
necessarily, Ron. So their opinion would not matter. It should be the
adult adoptees choice whether he wants to place his own family line
back on his ancestral tree. It would only work if it was his choice
alone.


Di

The All-Powerful All-Knowing One

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Aug 15, 2001, 7:55:34 AM8/15/01
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>Subject: Getting unadopted?
>From: rkbose rkb...@pacific.net.sg
>Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 12:42 AM
>Message-id: <3B79FDC9...@pacific.net.sg>

Sure, why not? To each his own.

Ghoulagirl

Giving birth is an act of nature; adopting is an act of nurture.

The All-Powerful All-Knowing One

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Aug 15, 2001, 8:05:38 AM8/15/01
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>Subject: Re: Getting unadopted?
>From: pat...@dial1.net (Dian)
>Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 7:15 AM
>Message-id: <f93539ac.01081...@posting.google.com>

I don't need my OBC or to unadopt myself in order to know where I belong, Di.
Not all adopted people are as stupid as you seem to believe - heck, I doubt
MOST adopted people are as stupid as you believe.

DeannaBefore

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Aug 15, 2001, 11:26:47 PM8/15/01
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"rkbose" <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
news:3B79FDC9...@pacific.net.sg...

I wouldn't be interested. I like my parents, so of course I am biased, but
as an adult - if I wanted rid of my parents, I doubt I'd want different ones
in return.

Deanna

J

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Aug 16, 2001, 12:09:31 AM8/16/01
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In article <3B79FDC9...@pacific.net.sg>, rkbose <rkb...@pacific.net.sg>
writes:

It's an interesting idea, but why limit it to unadoption? Let's extend it to
unbirthed, as well. I've known any number of people who would have been happy
to sever all legal ties with their families. Some, for example, might not like
the idea that their parents/siblings might profit by an untimely death. Others
might just find it enormously satisfying, the ultimate public renunciation.

J.

"We all say so, so it must be true."
The Bandar-log (monkey tribe), Rudyard Kipling's "Jungle Book"

Boomer

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Aug 16, 2001, 12:14:01 AM8/16/01
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"Dian" <pat...@dial1.net> wrote in message
news:f93539ac.01081...@posting.google.com...

What's the difference in this instance Di between adopted or bio? No child
asks to be born. No child has a choice of parent in infancy. You may as well
apply this to all parent/child relationships regardless of adoption status.

Lynn

>
>
> Di
>
>
> Di


That Damn Boo Kid

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Aug 16, 2001, 1:00:05 AM8/16/01
to
Rupa asked:

For myself -- no. I have no reason, and being adopted is part of my personal
history.

For everyone else -- sure, why not? Given that the adoptee generally could not
consent to the adoption at the time it took place, I see no reason why any
individual should continue to be bound by a legal proceeding they didn't
consent to.


Knifchick

Con te patiro
su navi per mari
che io lo so
no, no, non esistono piu
con te io li vivro

PLAYROY1

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Aug 16, 2001, 2:12:05 AM8/16/01
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<< Di has proposed an interesting idea: that an adult adoptee should be
permitted to nullify their own adoption if they so choose.

ROY: I think they should for sure. I also think that the aparents should then
be allowed to sue them for however many years of financial support. If the
aparents were never thought of as parents and the adoptee were to nullify the
relationship, then the adoptee should have to pay back the funds that were
meant for the aparent's children. I'm sure who ever they were presently
thinking of as their parents would be happy to financially support them and to
make up for all the years they were not able to. I know I would.

PLAYROY1

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Aug 16, 2001, 2:15:36 AM8/16/01
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<< What's the difference in this instance Di between adopted or bio? No child
asks to be born. No child has a choice of parent in infancy. You may as well
apply this to all parent/child relationships regardless of adoption status.
Lyn >>

ROY: Finally a voice of intelligence...

PLAYROY1

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Aug 16, 2001, 2:20:11 AM8/16/01
to
<< For everyone else -- sure, why not? Given that the adoptee generally could
not
consent to the adoption at the time it took place, I see no reason why any
individual should continue to be bound by a legal proceeding they didn't
consent to >>

ROY: Hmmm, you know I never consented to my mother birthing me either. I
guess I'm just as entitled to not be bound by the legal proceeding that I
didn't consent to either. What right did that woman, my mother have to create
me anyway? And unlike all adoptees, she didn't even want to have me. Neither
she nor I wanted in this contract. Geeze. I think I'll call her up (she's 86
now) tell her to get her walker over to the phone and give her the good news.

Dian

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Aug 16, 2001, 2:31:23 AM8/16/01
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ghoul...@aol.com.net (The All-Powerful All-Knowing One) wrote in message news:<20010815080538...@mb-fi.aol.com>...

> >Subject: Re: Getting unadopted?
> >From: pat...@dial1.net (Dian)
> >Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2001 7:15 AM
> >Message-id: <f93539ac.01081...@posting.google.com>
> >
> >rkbose <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
> news:<3B79FDC9...@pacific.net.sg>...
> >> Di has proposed an interesting idea: that an adult adoptee should be
> >> permitted to nullify their own adoption if they so choose.
> >>
> >> This is not like Kim giving up being adopted, where she decided to keep
> >> her existing parents but just relinquished the status. This would mean
> >> giving back the parents (or keeping them as fosters) and getting your
> >> first parents back.
> >>
> >> I'd be interested in a poll: Do people like the idea, and why; or not,
> >> and why not?
> >>
> >> Rupa
> >
> >A free man could make that choice, Rupa. Think of how much easier it
> >would have been if all adoptees could unadopt themselves, get hold of
> >their OBC
> >as a non-adopted person, and if they then wish, readopt themselves
> >back to their aparants, making it their choice at last. Now that is a
> >person with human rights.
>
> I don't need my OBC or to unadopt myself in order to know where I belong, Di.

And that's your choice.


> Not all adopted people are as stupid as you seem to believe - heck, I doubt
> MOST adopted people are as stupid as you believe.
>
> Ghoulagirl
>

I beg to differ there. I'm the one suggesting they should have
choices. Whereas it's you who assumes they all think the way you do.
You might want to try and look past the length of your own nose
sometime, before you attempt to speak on everyone's behalf.

Di

Heather

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Aug 16, 2001, 2:44:14 AM8/16/01
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So does that mean that when a "biological" child decides to divorce their
biological parents that those parents should be able to sue to get back
money also? What about when a child disowns their parents? Hey why stop
there? There are tons of children that disappoint their parents....should
the parent be able to take them to court and "recover their financial
losses?.....where do you draw the line Roy?
Heather

rkbose

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Aug 16, 2001, 3:27:51 AM8/16/01
to
J wrote:

> It's an interesting idea, but why limit it to unadoption? Let's extend it to
> unbirthed, as well. I've known any number of people who would have been happy
> to sever all legal ties with their families. Some, for example, might not like
> the idea that their parents/siblings might profit by an untimely death. Others
> might just find it enormously satisfying, the ultimate public renunciation.
>
> J.
>

Well, I know parents have the right to disown their grown offspring. Do
adults have a symmetrical right to disown their parents?

And does 'disowning' apply to property rights only, or to anything else?

Rupa

Boomer

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Aug 16, 2001, 3:39:40 AM8/16/01
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"PLAYROY1" <play...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010816021536...@mb-ch.aol.com...

I was being sarcastic, I think I need more practise.

Lynn

Boomer

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Aug 16, 2001, 3:41:13 AM8/16/01
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"rkbose" <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
news:3B79FDC9...@pacific.net.sg...

No, I wouldn't be interested in being able to nullify my adoption, but then
I'm happy with my lot in life.

Lynn


DeannaBefore

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Aug 16, 2001, 3:55:15 AM8/16/01
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"Dian" <pat...@dial1.net> wrote to Kim
news:f93539ac.01081...@posting.google.com...

> ghoul...@aol.com.net (The All-Powerful All-Knowing One) wrote in message
news:<20010815080538...@mb-fi.aol.com>...

>


> > Not all adopted people are as stupid as you seem to believe - heck, I
doubt
> > MOST adopted people are as stupid as you believe.
> >
> > Ghoulagirl
> >
> I beg to differ there.

Oh, good. Most of us are as stupid as you believe, then?

> I'm the one suggesting they should have
> choices. Whereas it's you who assumes they all think the way you do.

The hell she does.

> You might want to try and look past the length of your own nose
> sometime, before you attempt to speak on everyone's behalf.

ROFL. You first.

Deanna

rkbose

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Aug 16, 2001, 5:58:50 AM8/16/01
to
Heather wrote:
>
> So does that mean that when a "biological" child decides to divorce their
> biological parents that those parents should be able to sue to get back
> money also? What about when a child disowns their parents? Hey why stop
> there? There are tons of children that disappoint their parents....should
> the parent be able to take them to court and "recover their financial
> losses?.....where do you draw the line Roy?
> Heather

Actually, we haven't established if bio-offspring actually can divorce
their parents. J? Elizabeth?

Rupa

RobyF

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Aug 16, 2001, 6:29:17 AM8/16/01
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<< Subject: Re: Getting unadopted?
From: rkbose rkb...@pacific.net.sg
Date: Thu, Aug 16, 2001 3:27 AM
Message-id: <3B7B75F7...@pacific.net.sg>

J wrote:

Rupa
>>

This sounds like the practice of Roman Catholics getting a marriage annulled so
they can marry again in the church. What does that do to the status of children
of the first marriage?

Roberta
mom to Juliette, 5, adopted 2/4/98 from China

J

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Aug 16, 2001, 9:24:26 AM8/16/01
to
In article <2ZJe7.86485$sM.23...@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com>, "Heather"
<h.ko...@home.com> writes:

>> ROY: I think they should for sure. I also think that the aparents should
>then
>> be allowed to sue them for however many years of financial support. If the
>> aparents were never thought of as parents and the adoptee were to nullify
>the
>> relationship, then the adoptee should have to pay back the funds that were
>> meant for the aparent's children. I'm sure who ever they were presently
>> thinking of as their parents would be happy to financially support them
>and to
>> make up for all the years they were not able to. I know I would.


One of the drawbacks of not reading Roy's posts directly is that I risk missing
these intimate moments of self-disclosure.

LilMtnCbn

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Aug 16, 2001, 10:41:30 AM8/16/01
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>Subject: Re: Getting unadopted?
>From: play...@aol.com (PLAYROY1)
>Date: 8/16/01 12:12 AM Mountain Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20010816021205...@mb-ch.aol.com>

Those ungrateful bastards!

Kathy

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Aug 16, 2001, 12:04:43 PM8/16/01
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>Subject: Re: Getting unadopted?
>From: jmh...@aol.commisery (J )
>Date: 8/16/01 6:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20010816092426...@nso-ck.aol.com>

>
>In article <2ZJe7.86485$sM.23...@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com>, "Heather"
><h.ko...@home.com> writes:
>
>>> ROY: I think they should for sure. I also think that the aparents should
>>then
>>> be allowed to sue them for however many years of financial support. If the
>>> aparents were never thought of as parents and the adoptee were to nullify
>>the
>>> relationship, then the adoptee should have to pay back the funds that were
>>> meant for the aparent's children. I'm sure who ever they were presently
>>> thinking of as their parents would be happy to financially support them
>>and to
>>> make up for all the years they were not able to. I know I would.
>
>
>One of the drawbacks of not reading Roy's posts directly is that I risk
>missing
>these intimate moments of self-disclosure.

Lol. So true.
I wonder if he'll ever get it that adding more pain onto misery isn't a
solution when one claims to love their child unconditionally.

>J.


Lainie Petersen

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Aug 16, 2001, 2:07:47 PM8/16/01
to

FWIW,

I have a difficult time with the notion that one can "undo" one's adoptive
parents. If the adoption was legal, I can't see how it can simply be "undone"
at the whim of the adoptee. Certainly, if the adoption was somehow fraudulent
or illegal, I can see having the adoption "annuled", but I would think that
this would require clear evidence that there was something legally wrong with
the adoption from the start.

I think that adult adoptees ought to have the same right as everyone to choose
to be "adopted" by someone else, but I disagree with the idea that they should
be able to have their own adoptions annulled except when they can prove that
it was illegal.

Lainie

PLAYROY1

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Aug 16, 2001, 2:05:33 PM8/16/01
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<< So does that mean that when a "biological" child decides to divorce their
biological parents that those parents should be able to sue to get back
money also?

ROY: If they deny their parents and look for new ones, why not? Wasn't the
investment the parents made for their children? If the child no longer
considers themselves the child, then the financial support should be recovered
so the parents can still provide for their children.

Lainie Petersen

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Aug 16, 2001, 2:15:50 PM8/16/01
to

Also, recently I read of two separate cases (not involving adoption) where
parents/kids found themselves forced by the courts to provide for their
parents/adult offspring.

In one case a man who had sexually abused his kids was sent to a mental hospital
for treatment. His adult children (victims of the abuse) were then sent a bill to
cover his expenses. Apparently their state can and does force adult children to
pay for their parents expenses.

In a similar case, a man who was bi-polar sued to force his parents to support
him. He won, and they have to pay him 3500 a month plus additional expenses.

I don't see anything wrong with people going to court to try and annul their
responsiblities to each other (especially in cases where abuse as occured), but I
just can't justify annuling perfectly legal adoptions on a whim.

Lainie

Elizabeth

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Aug 16, 2001, 2:42:57 PM8/16/01
to
>
>Actually, we haven't established if bio-offspring actually can divorce
>their parents. J? Elizabeth?
>
>Rupa

There are no special legal obligations flowing from adult children to their
parents (bio or adopted), so there's no point to a "divorce," AFAIK. The
answer would be no. Minor children can seek emancipation from their bio
parents and some have done so.

Elizabeth

The All-Powerful All-Knowing One

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Aug 16, 2001, 3:00:05 PM8/16/01
to
>Subject: Re: Getting unadopted?
>From: pat...@dial1.net (Dian)
>Date: Thu, Aug 16, 2001 2:31 AM
>Message-id: <f93539ac.01081...@posting.google.com>

>
>ghoul...@aol.com.net (The All-Powerful All-Knowing One) wrote in message
>news:<20010815080538...@mb-fi.aol.com>...

snip

>> I don't need my OBC or to unadopt myself in order to know where I belong,
>Di.
>
>And that's your choice.

Gosh, thanks for recognizing that, Di. I feel so much better about it now.

>> Not all adopted people are as stupid as you seem to believe - heck, I
>doubt
>> MOST adopted people are as stupid as you believe.

>I beg to differ there.

Really? So you DO feel adopted people are stupid? How, um, unsurprising.

I'm the one suggesting they should have
>choices.

Did I say they shouldn't?

>Whereas it's you who assumes they all think the way you do.

Not at all. Some adopted people have a deep need to have a copy of their
OBCs, and some adopted people may want to disown their adoptive parents and
return to their birthfamilies. Just because I don't share those feelings
doesn't mean that I don't realize that others feel differently.

I know that's a tough concept for you to grasp, Di - that while you might
have certain feelings regarding adoption or whatever, there are others who feel
differently.

>You might want to try and look past the length of your own nose
>sometime, before you attempt to speak on everyone's behalf.

Oh the irony!

Ghoulagirl

The All-Powerful All-Knowing One

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Aug 16, 2001, 3:01:02 PM8/16/01
to
>Subject: Re: Getting unadopted?
>From: "DeannaBefore" mcle...@spammenotsprint.ca
>Date: Thu, Aug 16, 2001 3:55 AM
>Message-id: <4_Ke7.2573$j_2....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>

>
>
>"Dian" <pat...@dial1.net> wrote to Kim
>news:f93539ac.01081...@posting.google.com...
>> ghoul...@aol.com.net (The All-Powerful All-Knowing One) wrote in message
>news:<20010815080538...@mb-fi.aol.com>...
>
>>
>> > Not all adopted people are as stupid as you seem to believe - heck,
>I
>doubt
>> > MOST adopted people are as stupid as you believe.
>> >
>> > Ghoulagirl
>> >
>> I beg to differ there.
>
>Oh, good. Most of us are as stupid as you believe, then?

I've long suspected that she feels that way, but it's nice to see she's
finally gone on record with it. You know, I may have a new quote for my sig!

Palms2pines

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Aug 16, 2001, 3:13:06 PM8/16/01
to


I remember a made-for-TV movie about the true story of a young boy who had
bounced around foster care almost his entire life. Eventually, one of his
foster families loved him and wanted to adopt him, but his mother would not
voluntarily terminate her perental rights. He went to court and successfully
"divorced" himself from her so that he was legally free for adoption. Doesn't
anyone else recall this movie? The boy's name was "Gregory". I remember the
foster/adoptive dad was played by Richard McCrennan (sp??). Perhaps the legal
term for what the boy did was "emancipate" himself. I am not sure. They called
it "divorce" in the movie. I also see stories of wealthy, old people adopting
grown employees, etc. Would these grown people have to obtain the terminations
of their bio parents' parental rights to be legally free for such an adoption?


P2P

Elizabeth

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Aug 16, 2001, 3:33:55 PM8/16/01
to
P2P wrote:

>I remember a made-for-TV movie about the true story of a young boy who had
>bounced around foster care almost his entire life. Eventually, one of his
>foster families loved him and wanted to adopt him, but his mother would not
>voluntarily terminate her perental rights. He went to court and successfully
>"divorced" himself from her so that he was legally free for adoption. Doesn't
>anyone else recall this movie? The boy's name was "Gregory"

Yes, it happened in Florida, IIRC.

> I remember the
>foster/adoptive dad was played by Richard McCrennan (sp??). Perhaps the legal
>term for what the boy did was "emancipate" himself. I am not sure. They
>called
>it "divorce" in the movie.

I think someone in the media called it "divorce" and the rest of the media went
with it.

>>I also see stories of wealthy, old people adopting
>grown employees, etc. Would these grown people have to obtain the
>terminations
>of their bio parents' parental rights to be legally free for such an
>adoption?

No.

Elizabeth

The All-Powerful All-Knowing One

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Aug 16, 2001, 3:59:08 PM8/16/01
to
>Subject: Re: Getting unadopted?
>From: palms...@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines)
>Date: Thu, Aug 16, 2001 3:13 PM
>Message-id: <20010816151306...@mb-fp.aol.com>

>
>>>Actually, we haven't established if bio-offspring actually can divorce
>>>their parents. J? Elizabeth?
>>>
>>>Rupa
>>
>>There are no special legal obligations flowing from adult children to their
>>parents (bio or adopted), so there's no point to a "divorce," AFAIK.
>The
>>answer would be no. Minor children can seek emancipation from their bio
>>parents and some have done so.
>>
>>Elizabeth
>
>
>I remember a made-for-TV movie about the true story of a young boy who had
>bounced around foster care almost his entire life. Eventually, one of his
>foster families loved him and wanted to adopt him, but his mother would
>not
>voluntarily terminate her perental rights. He went to court and successfully
>"divorced" himself from her so that he was legally free for adoption. Doesn't
>anyone else recall this movie? The boy's name was "Gregory". I remember
>the
>foster/adoptive dad was played by Richard McCrennan (sp??). Perhaps the
>legal
>term for what the boy did was "emancipate" himself. I am not sure. They
>called
>it "divorce" in the movie.

Well, if it was ON TELEVISION, then it MUST be true! Just ask Di.

Ghoulagirl

"Not all adopted people are as stupid as you seem to believe - heck, I doubt

MOST adopted people are as stupid as you believe." - Me, 8/16/01

"I beg to differ there. " - Di Welfare's reply, 8/16/01

Elizabeth

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Aug 16, 2001, 4:08:39 PM8/16/01
to
>Subject: Re: Getting unadopted?
>From: ghoul...@aol.com.net (The All-Powerful All-Knowing One)
>Date: 8/16/01 12:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20010816155908...@mb-fo.aol.com>

Tagging on to Kim's reply because I forgot to say this earlier. The legal term
for what happened in the case that P2P mentioned was simply a TPR of the
biological mother's rights. BTW, the boy's right to petition for a TPR on his
own behalf was overturned on appeal because of his age. The TPR was upheld
only because his guardian ad litem and the paps (all adults, of course) had
also petitioned for TPR. The boy's bio father had consented.

This case didn't make any new law, IIRC. And it doesn't really relate to what
*adults* can or can't do legally.

Elizabeth

NancyWeb

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Aug 16, 2001, 5:14:00 PM8/16/01
to
Rupa wrote. . . >Actually, we haven't established if bio-offspring actually can

divorce
>their parents. J? Elizabeth?

I seem to remember a case in Florida a few years back where a boy divorced his
parents. I don't remember the outcome, though.

Ron Morgan

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Aug 16, 2001, 5:17:44 PM8/16/01
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"Elizabeth" <mem...@aol.comeondown> wrote in message
news:20010816144257...@ng-cs1.aol.com...

This is a relatively simple procedure. Doesn't annul parenthood, just
relieves the parents of the responsibilities normaly associated with
parenting a minor. I suppose that the procedure is the same whether the
child is bio or adopted.

Ron

>
> Elizabeth


rkbose

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Aug 16, 2001, 10:16:51 PM8/16/01
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Lainie Petersen wrote:
>
> Also, recently I read of two separate cases (not involving adoption) where
> parents/kids found themselves forced by the courts to provide for their
> parents/adult offspring.
>
> In one case a man who had sexually abused his kids was sent to a mental hospital
> for treatment. His adult children (victims of the abuse) were then sent a bill to
> cover his expenses. Apparently their state can and does force adult children to
> pay for their parents expenses.
>
> In a similar case, a man who was bi-polar sued to force his parents to support
> him. He won, and they have to pay him 3500 a month plus additional expenses.


Interesting. There is a similar responsibility in Singapore, but I had
assumed it flowed from the Confucian ethic, where offspring are assumed
to be bound by filial responsibilities. Do you recall which states?

Also, I think when an adult (whether parent or offspring) becomes
mentally/legally incompetent, the next of kin are usually appointed
guardians. If a person has no spouse, I presume that would be the
parents/ offspring. Again, I don't know the legal situation here..

Rupa

J

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Aug 16, 2001, 11:29:59 PM8/16/01
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In article <3B7B995A...@pacific.net.sg>, rkbose <rkb...@pacific.net.sg>
writes:


I haven't a clue.

J

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Aug 16, 2001, 11:29:59 PM8/16/01
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In article <3B7C0BF2...@clapper.com>, Lainie Petersen
<lpet...@clapper.com> writes:


Why? Our legal ties to family carry few egal responsibiilties on anyone's part
once we reach adulthood. (Can't really think of any, to tell the truth.) There
are situations one might wish to avoid, however, such as the two I
half-jokingly mentioned earlier (making money off one's death and simple
spite). Another situation that might arise in my own extended family, for
example is that one or more of my siblings would not pull the plug on me even
if I had left instructions for them to do so in the event of various
catastophes. I might not want to leave them in the chain of those eligible to
make that determination. The same might apply in the event of the death of a
parent with a minor child, if they were adamant about not wanting a
grandparent, uncle or aunt ot be among those who might assume guardianship.
(Granted there are other ways to address these issues, but divorcing ones
family members might be the most definite.)

One case that comes to mind is a situation in which one partner in a lesbian
relationship suffered severe brain damage. The partner fought the parents for
years, to obtain/retain guardianship. Until we permit gay marriages, divorce of
family members might appeal to some as a means of ensuring that a partner would
be in a position to assume that role if necessary. (Again, there are other ways
to acomplish it, but so long as family members oppose the way in which you live
your life, there is a risk of challenge.)

Elizabeth

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Aug 17, 2001, 12:47:47 AM8/17/01
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>Subject: Re: Getting unadopted?
>From: rkbose rkb...@pacific.net.sg
>Date: 8/16/01 7:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3B7C7E93...@pacific.net.sg>

A person who had been appointed as guardian or custodian of their incompetent
(legally) parent would have duties that other adult children wouldn't have, no
doubt. Typically, though, an adult could simply drift away from contact with
her parents (bio or adopted) and never assume any responsibilities or legal
obligations toward them.


Elizabeth

Dian

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Aug 17, 2001, 10:08:23 AM8/17/01
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Lainie Petersen <lpet...@clapper.com> wrote in message news:<3B7C0BF2...@clapper.com>...

But then if he had no say in the matter and does not get along with
his aparents and never felt like he fitted into the family why should
he be forced to ocmply with an arrangement made on his behalf, if he
finds it objectionable? Legal or not. What did he sign????

Di

Dian

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Aug 17, 2001, 10:16:32 AM8/17/01
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"Boomer" <shades...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<3b7b4854$0$20924$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au>...
> "Dian" <pat...@dial1.net> wrote in message
> news:f93539ac.01081...@posting.google.com...

> > rkbose <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
> news:<3B79FDC9...@pacific.net.sg>...
> > > Di has proposed an interesting idea: that an adult adoptee should be
> > > permitted to nullify their own adoption if they so choose.
> > >
> > > This is not like Kim giving up being adopted, where she decided to keep
> > > her existing parents but just relinquished the status. This would mean
> > > giving back the parents (or keeping them as fosters) and getting your
> > > first parents back.
> > >
> > > I'd be interested in a poll: Do people like the idea, and why; or not,
> > > and why not?
> > >
> > > Rupa
> >
> > A free man could make that choice, Rupa. Think of how much easier it
> > would have been if all adoptees could unadopt themselves, get hold of
> > their OBC
> > as a non-adopted person, and if they then wish, readopt themselves
> > back to their aparants, making it their choice at last. Now that is a
> > person with human rights.

>
> What's the difference in this instance Di between adopted or bio? No child
> asks to be born. No child has a choice of parent in infancy. You may as well
> apply this to all parent/child relationships regardless of adoption status.
>
> Lynn
>

Being born is not a legal transaction, Lynn. There is only one way to
undo a birth. And it's a bit drastic.

Di
> >
> >
> > Di
> >
> >
> > Di

Dian

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Aug 17, 2001, 10:20:21 AM8/17/01
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play...@aol.com (PLAYROY1) wrote in message news:<20010816021205...@mb-ch.aol.com>...

> << Di has proposed an interesting idea: that an adult adoptee should be
> permitted to nullify their own adoption if they so choose.
>
> ROY: I think they should for sure. I also think that the aparents should then
> be allowed to sue them for however many years of financial support. If the
> aparents were never thought of as parents and the adoptee were to nullify the
> relationship, then the adoptee should have to pay back the funds that were
> meant for the aparent's children.

How so, Roy? The adoptee never signed anything and never agreed to his
adoption so he is not obligated to anyone. His aparents became his
family by default, not by any choice he made.

Di

Dian

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Aug 17, 2001, 10:23:49 AM8/17/01
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play...@aol.com (PLAYROY1) wrote in message news:<20010816022011...@mb-ch.aol.com>...
> << For everyone else -- sure, why not? Given that the adoptee generally could
> not
> consent to the adoption at the time it took place, I see no reason why any
> individual should continue to be bound by a legal proceeding they didn't
> consent to >>
>
> ROY: Hmmm, you know I never consented to my mother birthing me either. I
> guess I'm just as entitled to not be bound by the legal proceeding that I
> didn't consent to either. What right did that woman, my mother have to create
> me anyway?

It was probably an act of insanity on her part, Roy, so she would not
be held accountable. LOL

And unlike all adoptees, she didn't even want to have me. Neither
> she nor I wanted in this contract. Geeze. I think I'll call her up (she's 86
> now) tell her to get her walker over to the phone and give her the good news.

Ron Morgan

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Aug 17, 2001, 10:30:10 AM8/17/01
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"Dian" <pat...@dial1.net> wrote in message
news:f93539ac.0108...@posting.google.com...

> Being born is not a legal transaction, Lynn.

But it creates a legal relationship in which the child has no say..

Ron


Dian

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Aug 17, 2001, 10:32:30 AM8/17/01
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Lainie Petersen <lpet...@clapper.com> wrote in message news:<3B7C0BF2...@clapper.com>...

Why on earth would adult adoptees want to be adopted by anyone? By
then they would be having adult relationships.

Di

Dian

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Aug 17, 2001, 10:37:29 AM8/17/01
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ghoul...@aol.com.net (The All-Powerful All-Knowing One) wrote in message news:<20010816155908...@mb-fo.aol.com>...


Lovely editing job there, Kim. But I'm relieved to see you finally
lose your last signature which stoopidly claimed that adopting was an
act of nurture.

Di

AdoptaDad

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Aug 17, 2001, 10:54:16 AM8/17/01
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Subject: Re: Getting unadopted?
From: "Ron Morgan" morg...@home.com
Date: 8/17/2001 10:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <ST9f7.7515$P15.4...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>

Ron


Exactly. To borrow a phrase from Di...

"What did he sign?"

Dad

AdoptaDad

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Aug 17, 2001, 10:55:50 AM8/17/01