St. Petersburg (Russia) Times: Someone Else's Baby
RobyF
Someone Else's Baby
Every sixth couple in Russia is being treated for infertility, while some half
a million children sit unwanted in the nation's orphanages. But, as Juliet
Butler reports, adoption is not the obvious answer when there is a stigma
attached to bringing up a stranger's baby.
YELENA Myerkushina seems to have everything. She is a beautiful 32-year-old
with a wealthy, loving husband and comfortable home. But she cannot have the
one thing she wants more than anything else - a child. She says, "I have a
wonderful husband and we're well off, but there's no joy in my life. I go to
the houses of friends who have children and feel so happy, but my own house is
empty. Sergei is a businessman and is glad to be able to support me in luxury,
but for the last three years I've been sitting at home going crazy trying to
get pregnant. I live from one period to the next."
Like millions of other infertile women in Russia, Yelena is willing to spend
endless time, effort and in her case, money, on having a baby. She has tried
in-vitro fertilization and paid high fees to virologists, immunologists,
acupuncturists and even witches in futile attempts to get pregnant. But after
10 years of mental anguish, she will not even consider the most obvious
solution - to adopt one of Russia's half-million unwanted children.
Every sixth couple in Russia is being treated for infertility - the same as in
Britain - but 70 percent of them fail to conceive. Yet only a tiny percentage
of these couples will choose to adopt, despite the fact that in 1994 alone,
more than 100,000 children were put up for adoption. That year, only 36,000
couples - including 2,163 foreigners - adopted a child.
The others preferred to battle on with treatment or resign themselves to
childlessness. If the level of infertility remains the same, and those who do
conceive continue to want only one child, Russia's population of 147 million
will drop by 20 million by the year 2010. But why do most Russians refuse to
tap into this vast reservoir of healthy, unwanted children? The answer lies
partly in their deep-rooted belief that blood is thicker than water. They will
throw up their hands in horror at the prospect of adopting a chuzhoi - someone
else's baby - especially when that someone else is a total stranger.
Tamara Tamarovna, for example, has a daughter who is married to a rich
businessman. Despite expensive treatment, her daughter, who had an abortion
when she was younger, has only conceived once in the last 10 years, and that
pregnancy ended in miscarriage. Yet Tamara shudders at the thought of having an
adopted grandchild. "Perish the thought," she says. "I wouldn't want them to
adopt - it would give me the shivers to know it was someone else's baby. They
might bring it up well, but the genes will come out and they'll end up with a
disaster on their hands."
The fear that the child will in some way be "damaged goods" stems from the
knowledge that mothers of mentally and physically handicapped children are
routinely advised by doctors to put their baby in an orphanage and "try again."
Consequently, healthy babies who are given up for financial or domestic reasons
are unfairly branded "defective."
In Moscow's Baby Home No. 12, half a dozen newborns lie wriggling and gurgling
in one vast cot while the nurse fills out forms at her desk. The baby home's
lawyer, Anna Orlova, who deals with admissions and adoptions, points to a
snub-nosed baby girl with dark curly hair chuckling toothlessly at us. Her
mother, Milla, met and married a soldier who was on military service near her
home in Chechnya, but when she returned with him to Moscow, heavily pregnant,
her furious mother-in-law insisted that she put the baby in a home. Blond,
blue-eyed Anya wails as the doctor tugs on her flannel shirt to listen to her
chest. She was found abandoned in a locked flat.
"We have newborns left in woods, on doorsteps and on park benches," says Anna
Orlova. "We even found one in a plastic bag in our courtyard. We spend six
months trying to find the mother, and if we can't, then the baby becomes
available for adoption." But since would-be adoptive parents insist on knowing
the parents' details, such foundlings are rarely adopted.
Mothers who want to give up their babies must submit to the baby home three
written denials of their parental rights, but these refusals are often
incorrectly worded, which means the child can't be adopted.
"There was one lovely woman, Anzhela, who lives with her grandmother," Orlova
says. "She got pregnant and wanted the baby, but the babushka said she must
give it away or not come home. She had nowhere else to live, so she had to give
the baby up, but she didn't word the refusal properly, so I had to call her in.
She spent two hours in my office weeping, but in the end she did it. Not one
family ever came to see her child with a view to adoption."
THE CONCEPT of adoption has never occurred to 16-year-old Anyuta of Moscow's
Children's Home No. 62, because in her world, adoptions simply never happen.
Anyuta's mother placed her in a baby home when she was a newborn, in the hope
that an infertile couple might take her. But no one ever did.
"There were never any adoptions in our baby home or this children's home," she
says. "We sometimes thought our parents might come back for us, but no one ever
thought someone else would, even though we were perfectly healthy."
Her mother was only 18 when she had Anyuta, and with the baby's father away on
military service and not likely to come back, she decided to put her up for
adoption. Three times she wrote the required refusal, and each time she
expressed the hope that her baby might be adopted.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyuta, left, and the children at right live in children's homes. "I try not to
think about why I wasn't adopted," Anyuta, 16, said.
(PHOTO: HEIDI BRADNER)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I would like to have had a mother," says Anyuta. "When someone is being kind
to me and hugs me, I push them away because I never had anyone who would stroke
me and say nice things when I was little.
"I don't understand why people without children don't want to take us home. We
always do what we're told straight away. I suppose people think mothers should
bring up their own children. I try not to think about why I wasn't adopted. I'm
used to being here."
THE MALE ego also has a lot to do with why thousands of healthy babies are
condemned to life in an orphanage. The average Russian male would do almost
anything but admit to his inability to sire a child.
For 44-year-old Irina Tsarapkina, this stalemate has reached the point where
she has decided to leave her husband of 20 years and adopt a baby on her own.
(Women of any age can adopt, whether or not they are married.) Following an
abortion and a miscarriage, she was told she could never have a child, so she
began thinking of adoption.
"My husband flatly refused to consider it. Perhaps I could have resigned myself
to life without children but I work as a pediatrician and see them every day,
which rubs salt into the wound. As a doctor, I have contacts who can make sure
I get a good baby, but when I told him I was going to adopt he said he'd leave
me. So that's that."
Lyudmila Viktorovna, 38, also holds out little hope of talking her husband into
an adoption. She first grew anxious in her mid-20s when she was unable to
conceive with her first husband. Repeated examinations showed nothing wrong
with her, but he refused to be subjected to similar tests. So, when she married
her present husband, a rich businessman, four years ago, she hoped to get
pregnant. "Still nothing happened," she says.
Dr. Tamara Ovsyannikova of Moscow's Research Center for Obstetrics, Gynecology
and Perinatology confirms that the most common causes of infertility are
inflammation, adhesions and scarring of the reproductive organs as a result of
venereal disease and abortions.
"Lots of people come to me after having had two or three abortions within
wedlock and then find that, lo and behold, they can't have a baby," she says.
Yelena is a typical case. She was 17 when she conceived the first time she
slept with her lover. He insisted that she have an abortion. Over the next 10
years she conceived twice, but miscarried both times. Over the past five years
Yelena has spent thousands of dollars - the average annual wage in Russia is
$1,700 - on fertility treatments, mostly in the hospital where Dr. Ovsyannikova
has her clinic. "I've also been to old country women who are supposed to know
folk methods of getting you pregnant, and to witches who tell me I've had a
spell cast on me. I've been to three witches who have told me the same thing
and tried to lift the spell, but with no result.
Caption:
Fertility treatment fails to help 70 percent of Russian couples, yet few of
them will consider adopting a child.
"It did occur to me to adopt, but Sergei refused point-blank. He won't even
talk about it. Maybe he's right. If we adopted, whatever the child was like,
Sergei would know it wasn't his sperm but another man's. I'm sure I'd feel
close to the child and feel it was mine, but I'm afraid of spoiling my
relationship with Sergei. He very much wants a child, but he says that if we
can't have our own, we must just live for each other."
Ironically, when Yelena was 20 she was asked by a male colleague if she would
agree to be a surrogate mother for him and his infertile wife. "I was
astounded. I didn't even try to understand him, though of course I do now."
SURROGATE motherhood, unlike adoption, is not considered shameful in Russia. In
fact, would-be surrogate mothers advertise their services in newspapers, and
one entrepreneurial woman even set up an agency to bring together surrogate
mothers and rich infertile couples. Russia's state adoption centers and baby
homes, on the other hand, stay determinedly in the shadows. Few people even
know if they have a baby home in their own street, and would certainly not
think of visiting or helping out with the babies there.
"If there's a stigma attached to infertility, the stigma attached to adoption
is even worse," says Viktor Parshutkin, press secretary of the Russian
parliament's Committee on International Affairs, which helps Westerners adopt
Russian babies. "So if you do adopt, it has to be a great secret - that's the
sort of climate that holds sway in Russia."
In the past, foreigners were only permitted to adopt disabled Russian children,
but since a new law was passed in 1995, they can adopt any child that has been
seen and not wanted by at least three Russian couples. The catch is that many
lovely babies are never seen at all.
Children adopted by Russians are rarely aware of their background. "They're
never told they're adopted," says Parshutkin. "If word got out that they were,
they'd be teased mercilessly. The word dyetdomovskii, or orphanage kid, is
pejorative, like 'Yid' or 'nigger.' The parents want to protect the child from
such trauma - and to protect themselves as well, because they become victims of
aggression from neighbors and work colleagues. You'd be surprised. Adoption may
be fine in [the West], but it's a terrible cross to bear here. The whole
attitude to children is different."
After failing to become pregnant after 10 years of fertility treatment,
36-year-old Svetlana Samuelova decided to adopt the child of a friend's
colleague. "She lived in a dormitory with one small child and didn't want the
second one, so we asked her to have the baby in a hospital where we have a
doctor acquaintance, who would make sure we got the child," says Svetlana. "It
was all legal, but we had to pay a year and a half's wages in bribes to the
adoption center and baby home before we got our little girl. The mother didn't
want any money, she was just happy her baby would be brought up in a family."
Svetlana told all of her friends that she was pregnant, then left her job and
moved to a different part of Moscow in order to fake a pregnancy. "I tied a
cushion to my waist before going out. When I went to the adoption center to
fill out last-minute forms, the other women waiting to adopt had pillows up
their dresses too. Well, what can you do? Some people don't even tell their own
parents. I'm lucky with my mother-in-law - I know women whose mothers-in-law
get their son to divorce and marry a woman who can bear him his own children."
Adopting healthy babies is also unheard of in southern regions of the former
Soviet Union.
"If a couple can't have a baby, they ask a brother or sister to have one for
them," says Fatima Goribyekova, from Grozny.
"A friend of ours tried unsuccessfully to have a child for 12 years. So when
his younger brother married and had a daughter, he gave it to his brother. Now
the elder brother has this one girl and the younger brother has four more girls
and three boys. It's amazing - the first girl isn't like her sisters at all.
They are all dark and she's blond. None of them know they are really brothers
and sisters and not cousins."
futurelove
futureulove
Pierceforhimself
>From: ro...@aol.com (RobyF)
>Date: 02/23/2001
>http://www.sptimes.ru/archive/times/211-212/adoption.html
>
>
>Someone Else's Baby
I got a private email alerting me to this
post, so I am briefing visiting a.a again.
Thank you for posting this story. For those of us who have been to Russia and
studied the situation with Russian families, it tells the whole story.
Not to start a flame war, but which of the following scenarios would be best:
1) until the Russian society changes its views on adoption, Russians in huge
numbers use pillows and do not tell their relatives or their children that they
are adopted, but many, many children are adopted and grow up in Russia;
2) Russians resign themselves to the fact that tens of thousands of healthy
children will grow up in orphanages;
3) Russian children in orphanages are adopted by families from other countries.
I believe my preference is: first, # 1; second, # 3; third, # 2.
pierceforhimself
GR
>http://www.sptimes.ru/archive/times/211-212/adoption.html
>
>
>Someone Else's Baby
>
>Every sixth couple in Russia is being treated for infertility, while some half
>a million children sit unwanted in the nation's orphanages. But, as Juliet
>Butler reports, adoption is not the obvious answer when there is a stigma
>attached to bringing up a stranger's baby.
>
>YELENA Myerkushina seems to have everything. She is a beautiful 32-year-old
>with a wealthy, loving husband and comfortable home. But she cannot have the
>one thing she wants more than anything else - a child. She says, "I have a
>wonderful husband and we're well off, but there's no joy in my life. I go to
>the houses of friends who have children and feel so happy, but my own house is
>empty. Sergei is a businessman and is glad to be able to support me in luxury,
>but for the last three years I've been sitting at home going crazy trying to
>get pregnant. I live from one period to the next."
Jesus Tap Dancing Christ. Yelena, sweetie, get a friggin' job.
Even... *gasp* a career.
<snip>
And what's all that shit about abortion in this article? You could
practically hear the hushed tones as they kept saying so-and-so had an
*abortion* and now has only concieved x times in an x-year marriage.
Hello?!? It's a simple and safe medical procedure and has been for
ages, not the end of all future pregnancies for women. What kind of
friggin' abortions were they getting over there, the coathanger kind?
Marley? What's up with this?
DeannaBefore
"GR" <din...@citycom.com> wrote in message
news:3a98a2f1...@news.slip.net...
Some women don't get it, though. Environment is everything. I have a
friend at work, a 50 yr old adoptee, who didn't quite catch her bmom before
she died. I bounced over to her desk last week, thrilled to bits because
I'm finally going to *real* university (in April), with a goal towards a
*real* diploma that will not produce a bunch of useless crap for me to hang
on the wall. Anyway:
ME: (bouncing) Guess what? (very happy tone)
HER: You're pregnant!
ME: God, no!
HER: You got married!
ME: Uh, no.
HER: You're in love!
ME: No.
HER: What then?
ME: Uh, I'm going to University, finally!
HER: You know, you're just weird.
ME: Whoa.
Wandered back to my cubicle, thought really hard about this. As it turns
out, some women don't realize that the best thing we can do *for* ourselves,
is to take care *of* ourselves.
Crazy.
--
Deanna
"After 11 years of marriage, Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman announced this
week that they are getting divorced. The couple say the split is amicable
and they want everyone to know that after the divorce is final, their two
adopted children will be returned to the prop department at Universal
Studios."
-Tina Fey
Marley Greiner
>
> Wandered back to my cubicle, thought really hard about this. As it turns
> out, some women don't realize that the best thing we can do *for*
ourselves,
> is to take care *of* ourselves.
>
> Crazy.
>
> --
> Deanna
Life and culture and experience is different there. Women were forced to
work and what did it get them? The whole rug was pulled out from under
them. You have doctors who are now working as prostitutes. My SIL is
trained as a graduate Navy engineer and she works for some backwater fish
licence agency in the Leningrad Oblast as a bookkeeper. My MIL was a nurse
and teacher and later a professional seamstress. Her pension is something
like $14/ mo, which even in rubles is nothing. Not even a good day at the
grocery. If you are married to a man who can keep you, then you're kept.
The family has always been the refuge.
Marley
Marley Greiner
GR <din...@citycom.com> wrote in message
news:3a98a2f1...@news.slip.net...
That's not exactly what Russian women are in to. For 70 years jobs and
careers were pushed down their throats, and like any sane person, the
younger generation of women rebelled against working--not that many people
were literally working before. Additionally, professions that were
female-oriented, such as medicine, have been pretty much shut down. The
goal is to sit at home and be kept woman. Besdies, even if you did work,
there's no guarantee that you'll get paid.
>
> <snip>
>
> And what's all that shit about abortion in this article? You could
> practically hear the hushed tones as they kept saying so-and-so had an
> *abortion* and now has only concieved x times in an x-year marriage.
> Hello?!? It's a simple and safe medical procedure and has been for
> ages, not the end of all future pregnancies for women. What kind of
> friggin' abortions were they getting over there, the coathanger kind?
Actually yes. Abortion used to be free or close to it, and it had no stigma
Now the vultures are charging. An American friend of mine who has lived
there for many years had an abortion a few years ago. No anesthesia, but an
asprin or two. In the middle of the procedure, some friends of the doctor's
came in for a small birthday party. You get the picture. If you've got the
money, abortions are safe; if not, who knows what's going on now.
VIrtually all of the Russian women I know have had serial abortions, since
other forms of birth control were never an option. I don't know what's
going on now, but as of 18 months ago when I was last that, abortion seemed
to still be the major form of birth control.
BTW, I once visited a "free hospital" but by the American consulate where
the boyfriend of a friend of mine was incarcerated for a mixture of STD's.
The place was fillthy and the "guards" were drunk. We took the guy some
fresh fruit since he was barely eating. One does not want to go to a public
hospital, and people are frequently "broken out" by friends and relatives.
Oh, wanna here about eye surgery?
>
> Marley? What's up with this?
Marley
>
>
Tm n Kat
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Subject: Re: St. Petersburg (Russia) Times: Someone Else's Baby
>From: piercefo...@aol.com (Pierceforhimself)
>Date: 2/24/01
DeannaBefore
"Marley Greiner" <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Redm6.3618$mX4.3...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> >
> > Wandered back to my cubicle, thought really hard about this. As it
turns
> > out, some women don't realize that the best thing we can do *for*
> ourselves,
> > is to take care *of* ourselves.
> >
> > Crazy.
> >
> > --
> > Deanna
>
> Life and culture and experience is different there.
Oh, I know Marley. That was my point when I started my post (saying
environment is everything), but then I veered sharply off to this woman I
work with here. That's who I think is crazy.
Marley Greiner
Marley
DeannaBefore <mcle...@spammenotsprint.ca> wrote in message
news:LRtm6.2722$zi6....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
The All-Powerful All-Knowing One
>Date: 2/25/01 2:42 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <Qedm6.3617$mX4.3...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
snip
> One does not want to go to a public
>hospital, and people are frequently "broken out" by friends and relatives.
>Oh, wanna here about eye surgery?
Sure... tell us about eye surgery.
Ghoulagirl
"She lives in a totally Ian-less universe!"
- John Cusack, "High Fidelity"
GR
<mcle...@spammenotsprint.ca> wrote:
<snip>
Yelena from the article:
>>>. Sergei is a businessman and is glad to be able to support me in
>luxury, but for the last three years I've been sitting at home going crazy trying
>to get pregnant. I live from one period to the next."
GR:
>> Jesus Tap Dancing Christ. Yelena, sweetie, get a friggin' job.
>> Even... *gasp* a career.
>
>Some women don't get it, though. Environment is everything. I have a
>friend at work, a 50 yr old adoptee, who didn't quite catch her bmom before
>she died.
I can relate to not catching nmom before she kicked. Bummer.
>I bounced over to her desk last week, thrilled to bits because
>I'm finally going to *real* university (in April), with a goal towards a
>*real* diploma that will not produce a bunch of useless crap for me to hang
>on the wall.
Cool! Many congrats to ya.
>Anyway:
>ME: (bouncing) Guess what? (very happy tone)
>HER: You're pregnant!
>ME: God, no!
>HER: You got married!
>ME: Uh, no.
>HER: You're in love!
>ME: No.
>HER: What then?
>ME: Uh, I'm going to University, finally!
>HER: You know, you're just weird.
>ME: Whoa.
I'll see your whoa and raise you a holy shit!
>Wandered back to my cubicle, thought really hard about this. As it turns
>out, some women don't realize that the best thing we can do *for* ourselves,
>is to take care *of* ourselves.
What are they doing, living in caves? And if, by some freak of fate,
they have no interest in taking care of themselves, aren't they
interested in anything?
>Crazy.
Indeed. And sad.
GR
It's heresy, I know, but I always felt that the Party line on women
was a lot of lip-service anyway. What I've never understood is -
aren't these women bored out of their minds? No intellectual
stimulation is needed or the lack of it even noticed? What a waste.
GR
<maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
<snip - Yelena sits at home waiting for a baby for three years>
>> Jesus Tap Dancing Christ. Yelena, sweetie, get a friggin' job.
>> Even... *gasp* a career.
>
>That's not exactly what Russian women are in to. For 70 years jobs and
>careers were pushed down their throats, and like any sane person, the
>younger generation of women rebelled against working--not that many people
>were literally working before. Additionally, professions that were
>female-oriented, such as medicine, have been pretty much shut down. The
>goal is to sit at home and be kept woman. Besdies, even if you did work,
>there's no guarantee that you'll get paid.
But aren't their minds gripped by atrophy? I see what you're saying,
but it sounds like a monumental bore of a life to moi.
>> <snip>
>>
>> And what's all that shit about abortion in this article? You could
>> practically hear the hushed tones as they kept saying so-and-so had an
>> *abortion* and now has only concieved x times in an x-year marriage.
>> Hello?!? It's a simple and safe medical procedure and has been for
>> ages, not the end of all future pregnancies for women. What kind of
>> friggin' abortions were they getting over there, the coathanger kind?
>
>Actually yes. Abortion used to be free or close to it, and it had no stigma
>Now the vultures are charging. An American friend of mine who has lived
>there for many years had an abortion a few years ago. No anesthesia, but an
>asprin or two. In the middle of the procedure, some friends of the doctor's
>came in for a small birthday party. You get the picture. If you've got the
>money, abortions are safe; if not, who knows what's going on now.
>VIrtually all of the Russian women I know have had serial abortions, since
>other forms of birth control were never an option.
?!? No Pill? No condoms? Nothing?
>I don't know what's
>going on now, but as of 18 months ago when I was last that, abortion seemed
>to still be the major form of birth control.
Jesus. No wonder people are longing for the good old days. Sure,
they sucked, but wtf is up with this?
>BTW, I once visited a "free hospital" but by the American consulate where
>the boyfriend of a friend of mine was incarcerated for a mixture of STD's.
>The place was fillthy and the "guards" were drunk. We took the guy some
>fresh fruit since he was barely eating. One does not want to go to a public
>hospital, and people are frequently "broken out" by friends and relatives.
>Oh, wanna here about eye surgery?
No! Sounds like a friggin' nightmare. Christ, what a desolation.
Marley Greiner
GR <din...@citycom.com> wrote in message
news:3a9ac834...@news.slip.net...
I have no idea. My MIL watches soaps all day, which Soier marks it up to
her current mental state. I strongly disagree with him. What else is there
to do? Besides, she's retired. Soaps are my main preoccupation when I'm
there. Mainly they are Spanish and South American soaps and novellas, but
the last time around Sunset Beach was also played in the late afternoon.
Women keep very very busy actually. Family is the first priority so there's
lots of stuff to do there for stay-at-home women. Cooking especially, and
sewing and clothes washing. Moving furniture is also fun. When I'm there,
I clean. I clean our flat at least once a day. Seriously. I've even
cleaned the communal bathroom. I also wash clothes nearly every day in the
bathtub, and hang them in the hall. Cooking, of course, is beyond the pale,
and I've never figured out how to turn the gas on in the communal flat
without an explosion. . I also walk the streets a lot and shop. Years ago
you had to make a regular excursion to find toilet paper (I once went all
the way to Moscow for some, which I found in a wallpaper store on Kalinin),
but all the emenities are readily available now, which takes some of the fun
out of things.
Clubbing is also big. Since you don't have to be at work until around 10
you can stay out until 3 and sleep late.
The average Russian woman, though, works very hard. Mostly shit jobs and
then at home with the second shit job. I've never known a Russian women who
was intellectually deprived unless she wanted to be. Culture is a part of
everyday life. Even my rudest punk friends have home libraries jammed with
everything from Pushkin to Faulkner, and they are big readers. Most can
talk your leg off on art, history, film, and music. They are amazing at
world geography. They are horrified at the stupidly of Americans.
I've been enthralled with the idea of becoming a street cleaner myself. No
socializing, I could listen to my walkman, and wear a spiffy orange outfit.
The worst job to me would be to work at the bottom of the escalator in the
metro and scream at people if they lay down on the stairs or get in fist
fights. The mother of a former friend of mine had the most boring job I've
ever heard of. She worked in a ship building plant and her job was to sit
in a room and watch wood be naturally curved by slow water pressure.
I have no idea about village life, which has got to be deadly. And I may
add that I may just know peculiar people.
Marley
Marley Greiner
--
GR <din...@citycom.com> wrote in message
news:3a9ac96a...@news.slip.net...
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:42:40 GMT, "Marley Greiner"
> <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> <snip - Yelena sits at home waiting for a baby for three years>
>
> >> Jesus Tap Dancing Christ. Yelena, sweetie, get a friggin' job.
> >> Even... *gasp* a career.
> >
> >That's not exactly what Russian women are in to. For 70 years jobs and
> >careers were pushed down their throats, and like any sane person, the
> >younger generation of women rebelled against working--not that many
people
> >were literally working before. Additionally, professions that were
> >female-oriented, such as medicine, have been pretty much shut down. The
> >goal is to sit at home and be kept woman. Besdies, even if you did work,
> >there's no guarantee that you'll get paid.
>
> But aren't their minds gripped by atrophy? I see what you're saying,
> but it sounds like a monumental bore of a life to moi.
See my remarks in my other post on this.
>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> And what's all that shit about abortion in this article? You could
> >> practically hear the hushed tones as they kept saying so-and-so had an
> >> *abortion* and now has only concieved x times in an x-year marriage.
> >> Hello?!? It's a simple and safe medical procedure and has been for
> >> ages, not the end of all future pregnancies for women. What kind of
> >> friggin' abortions were they getting over there, the coathanger kind?
> >
> >Actually yes. Abortion used to be free or close to it, and it had no
stigma
> >Now the vultures are charging. An American friend of mine who has lived
> >there for many years had an abortion a few years ago. No anesthesia, but
an
> >asprin or two. In the middle of the procedure, some friends of the
doctor's
> >came in for a small birthday party. You get the picture. If you've got
the
> >money, abortions are safe; if not, who knows what's going on now.
> >VIrtually all of the Russian women I know have had serial abortions,
since
> >other forms of birth control were never an option.
>
> ?!? No Pill? No condoms? Nothing?
I'm not sure about the Pill situation now, but they were difficult to come
by in the past. I knew women back in the early 90's who would get a hold of
a 1-month's supply and share it with her girlfriends. Guessing from the
current state of Russian healthcare now, my guess is that they'd still be
difficult to come by unless you had some money. As for condoms? Sure you
jest? No Russian man with a sense of dignity would wear one. Couple to
this, the denial of AIDS as a serious health problem. I'd say they would
be more prevalent in gay circles and with hets with money, but the average
guy isn't gonna use one. Actually, Russian-made condoms were about useless
anyway. You'd have to wear 2-3 of them. Public health concerns just aren't
an economic priority.
>
> >I don't know what's
> >going on now, but as of 18 months ago when I was last that, abortion
seemed
> >to still be the major form of birth control.
>
> Jesus. No wonder people are longing for the good old days. Sure,
> they sucked, but wtf is up with this?
Well, abortion always was the main form of birth control, so it's nothing
new. Now you've got fundies coming in as well, and preaching against it.
>
> >BTW, I once visited a "free hospital" but by the American consulate
where
> >the boyfriend of a friend of mine was incarcerated for a mixture of
STD's.
> >The place was fillthy and the "guards" were drunk. We took the guy some
> >fresh fruit since he was barely eating. One does not want to go to a
public
> >hospital, and people are frequently "broken out" by friends and
relatives.
> >Oh, wanna here about eye surgery?
>
> No! Sounds like a friggin' nightmare. Christ, what a desolation.
Well, if you've got money you can buy it. I have my very own private (not
government) dentist, Ivanova who is really quite good and probably as close
to painfree as you'll find in St. Petersburg. I filling fell out when I was
there exposing a nerve so Soier and I made the trek down to see her twice.
The first time she cleaned it all out and told me to keep it clean with
cotton and baking soda. The second time, I got a tooth xray and she filled
it. All this was done to the accompaniment of martial music. While she was
drilling my tooth(amazingly painfree) she was screaming at her assistant
who was cleaning somebody's teeth. While I was waiting for my second
appointment, some poor soul was laid out on the bench outside the office
moaning that computers had caused his toothache. A woman patient, holding
her head, left another dentist's office on the same floor, and immediately
fell into her mother's lap and wept.
Things may have improved since my last visit. Vladimir's mother, a retired
engineer, who has been very depressed for several years over conditions has
been rather cheery lately, claiming that now that Drunken Borya is gone,
life under Putin is making things better. We'll see.
Marley
Marley
DeannaBefore
> OK. Gottcha now. Sorry for the misinterpretation.
>
> Marley
Not at all.
DeannaBefore
> >Some women don't get it, though. Environment is everything. I have a
> >friend at work, a 50 yr old adoptee, who didn't quite catch her bmom
before
> >she died.
>
> I can relate to not catching nmom before she kicked. Bummer.
I know. :( Was made harder by the fact that they had just found her
sister's bmom, alive and well.
>
> >I bounced over to her desk last week, thrilled to bits because
> >I'm finally going to *real* university (in April), with a goal towards a
> >*real* diploma that will not produce a bunch of useless crap for me to
hang
> >on the wall.
>
> Cool! Many congrats to ya.
Thanks!
~snip convo with coworker who thinks I'm weird, for all the wrong reasons~
> >Wandered back to my cubicle, thought really hard about this. As it turns
> >out, some women don't realize that the best thing we can do *for*
ourselves,
> >is to take care *of* ourselves.
>
> What are they doing, living in caves? And if, by some freak of fate,
> they have no interest in taking care of themselves, aren't they
> interested in anything?
I don't think this one is, really, except sewing. (Which is why we get
along, since I sew too.)
>
> >Crazy.
>
> Indeed. And sad.
Yup.
The All-Powerful All-Knowing One
>From: "Marley Greiner" maddog...@worldnet.att.net
>Message-id: <qrTm6.5931$Ea1.4...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
You wrote:
>> snip
>>
>> >I filling fell out when I was
>> >there exposing a nerve
I replied:
>> Sorry, but this is funny, because the wording suggests that exposing the
>> nerve was the point of your trip!
>Oh oh! You figured it out.
Yes I DID!
Next trip will be to contract an eye infection,
>the treatment of which I will not post in deference to GR's delicate
>stomach.
Is it grosser than amom recipes or instructions for stuffing and mounting
rodent heads? Come on, you MUST post it!
GR
<maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
<snip>
>> It's heresy, I know, but I always felt that the Party line on women
>> was a lot of lip-service anyway. What I've never understood is -
>> aren't these women bored out of their minds? No intellectual
>> stimulation is needed or the lack of it even noticed? What a waste.
>
>I have no idea. My MIL watches soaps all day, which Soier marks it up to
>her current mental state. I strongly disagree with him. What else is there
>to do? Besides, she's retired. Soaps are my main preoccupation when I'm
>there. Mainly they are Spanish and South American soaps and novellas, but
>the last time around Sunset Beach was also played in the late afternoon.
Hmm.... well - whatever...
>Women keep very very busy actually. Family is the first priority so there's
>lots of stuff to do there for stay-at-home women. Cooking especially, and
>sewing and clothes washing.
Yeah - there can be a lot of crap to do at home - but do they at least
get an education first? My friends who now do the home thing finished
school and started careers before they dropped into babyville. I
figured that the Russians would have a similar thing going, possibly
better given their vastly more sophistacted history - though evidently
I haven't got clue friggin' one what's going on over there these days.
>Moving furniture is also fun.
Eek!
>When I'm there,
>I clean. I clean our flat at least once a day. Seriously.
Whoa. Looking for a place to stay anytime soon?
>I've even cleaned the communal bathroom.
Well - if I couldn't pay anyone else to do it - so would I, I suppose.
Beats leaving it undone.
>I also wash clothes nearly every day in the
>bathtub, and hang them in the hall.
Omigod. In the *tub*?!? I'm afeared. Any manufacturing on the
horizon with all these new free-enterprise millionaires?
>Cooking, of course, is beyond the pale,
>and I've never figured out how to turn the gas on in the communal flat
>without an explosion.
Uh... well, at least you survived the explosions you caused (ACS!)
before you figured out it was time to stop trying. Please tell me
that the fire hydrants work and they have fire departments... please!
> I also walk the streets a lot and shop.
Well, I'm all in favor of that.
>Years ago
>you had to make a regular excursion to find toilet paper
I remember the stories, but I assumed most of it was propaganda. How
many years ago are we talking? I'm talking the evil-empire-rag they
used to play incessantly.
>(I once went all
>the way to Moscow for some, which I found in a wallpaper store on Kalinin),
LOL... sorry - that just struck me as funny... awful - but funny.
>but all the emenities are readily available now, which takes some of the fun
>out of things.
Well yeah - they're just no fun anymore. Except they might focus on
those appliance amenities.
>Clubbing is also big.
Eh. I'm past it.
>Since you don't have to be at work until around 10
>you can stay out until 3 and sleep late.
I think I can support that one.
>The average Russian woman, though, works very hard. Mostly shit jobs and
>then at home with the second shit job.
Hmm... sounds suspiciously like a lot of women in the States.
>I've never known a Russian women who
>was intellectually deprived unless she wanted to be. Culture is a part of
>everyday life. Even my rudest punk friends have home libraries jammed with
>everything from Pushkin to Faulkner, and they are big readers. Most can
>talk your leg off on art, history, film, and music. They are amazing at
>world geography. They are horrified at the stupidly of Americans.
Well this is what I'd thought and been told. That's why Yelena
waiting at home for three years and brainlessly whining struck me as a
bit odd. Of course, Russian ain't on my loop - so I've never been
there.
>I've been enthralled with the idea of becoming a street cleaner myself.
Uh....
>No socializing, I could listen to my walkman,
Okay... I can go for that.
>and wear a spiffy orange outfit.
Can't you just borrow one of those from Robert Downey Jr.? He has a
bunch of 'em. And... uh... you know orange can be a very tricky color
to wear, depending on your coloring.
>The worst job to me would be to work at the bottom of the escalator in the
>metro and scream at people if they lay down on the stairs or get in fist
>fights.
Uh... yeah - that sounds pretty grim. I'd have to pass on it.
>The mother of a former friend of mine had the most boring job I've
>ever heard of. She worked in a ship building plant and her job was to sit
>in a room and watch wood be naturally curved by slow water pressure.
Omigod. Slow water torture for her, I'm sure.
>I have no idea about village life, which has got to be deadly.
I guess it must be if these are the swinging people in the big cities.
> And I may add that I may just know peculiar people.
Always possible, but I think you have a fairly keen eye for detail.
Thanks for the info - I could ask a skillion questions but I don't
want to bug you any more than I have. Amazing stuff, Marley - truly
amazing.
GR
<maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
<snip>
>> But aren't their minds gripped by atrophy? I see what you're saying,
>> but it sounds like a monumental bore of a life to moi.
>
>See my remarks in my other post on this.
Yep. Got 'em and thanks again.
<snip>
>> >VIrtually all of the Russian women I know have had serial abortions,
>since other forms of birth control were never an option.
>>
>> ?!? No Pill? No condoms? Nothing?
>
>I'm not sure about the Pill situation now, but they were difficult to come
>by in the past. I knew women back in the early 90's who would get a hold of
>a 1-month's supply and share it with her girlfriends.
<shudder> That sucks.
>Guessing from the
>current state of Russian healthcare now, my guess is that they'd still be
>difficult to come by unless you had some money.
Ah. The fabulousness of the free-market once again.
>As for condoms? Sure you
>jest? No Russian man with a sense of dignity would wear one.
Oops. Sorry, my bad.
>Couple to
>this, the denial of AIDS as a serious health problem. I'd say they would
>be more prevalent in gay circles and with hets with money, but the average
>guy isn't gonna use one. Actually, Russian-made condoms were about useless
>anyway. You'd have to wear 2-3 of them. Public health concerns just aren't
>an economic priority.
Jesus. I had the vaguest of ideas about this stuff going on over
there, I'm quite ashamed to admit. Dare I even ask what anyone's
proposing they do about this?
>> >I don't know what's
>> >going on now, but as of 18 months ago when I was last that, abortion
>seemed to still be the major form of birth control.
>>
>> Jesus. No wonder people are longing for the good old days. Sure,
>> they sucked, but wtf is up with this?
>
>Well, abortion always was the main form of birth control, so it's nothing
>new. Now you've got fundies coming in as well, and preaching against it.
Shit. Well - it's over-population hell or evil abortions til you
can't get pregnant anymore for the Russians then - eh?
>> >BTW, I once visited a "free hospital" but by the American consulate
>where the boyfriend of a friend of mine was incarcerated for a mixture of
>STD's. The place was fillthy and the "guards" were drunk. We took the guy some
>> >fresh fruit since he was barely eating. One does not want to go to a
>public hospital, and people are frequently "broken out" by friends and
>relatives. Oh, wanna here about eye surgery?
>>
>> No! Sounds like a friggin' nightmare. Christ, what a desolation.
>
>Well, if you've got money you can buy it. I have my very own private (not
>government) dentist, Ivanova who is really quite good and probably as close
>to painfree as you'll find in St. Petersburg. I filling fell out when I was
>there exposing a nerve so Soier and I made the trek down to see her twice.
>The first time she cleaned it all out and told me to keep it clean with
>cotton and baking soda. The second time, I got a tooth xray and she filled
>it. All this was done to the accompaniment of martial music. While she was
>drilling my tooth(amazingly painfree) she was screaming at her assistant
>who was cleaning somebody's teeth. While I was waiting for my second
>appointment, some poor soul was laid out on the bench outside the office
>moaning that computers had caused his toothache. A woman patient, holding
>her head, left another dentist's office on the same floor, and immediately
>fell into her mother's lap and wept.
Oy! Marley - you're taking away my absolute fave! I bitch about my
dentist no end and he's very good.
>Things may have improved since my last visit. Vladimir's mother, a retired
>engineer, who has been very depressed for several years over conditions has
>been rather cheery lately, claiming that now that Drunken Borya is gone,
>life under Putin is making things better. We'll see.
We can only hope.
GR
<mcle...@spammenotsprint.ca> wrote:
<snip>
>> I can relate to not catching nmom before she kicked. Bummer.
>
>I know. :( Was made harder by the fact that they had just found her
>sister's bmom, alive and well.
Ouch. All those raised hopes... god the poor woman.
>> >I bounced over to her desk last week, thrilled to bits because
>> >I'm finally going to *real* university (in April), with a goal towards a
>> >*real* diploma that will not produce a bunch of useless crap for me to
>hang
>> >on the wall.
>>
>> Cool! Many congrats to ya.
>
>Thanks!
>
>~snip convo with coworker who thinks I'm weird, for all the wrong reasons~
>
>> >Wandered back to my cubicle, thought really hard about this. As it turns
>> >out, some women don't realize that the best thing we can do *for*
>ourselves, is to take care *of* ourselves.
>>
>> What are they doing, living in caves? And if, by some freak of fate,
>> they have no interest in taking care of themselves, aren't they
>> interested in anything?
>
>I don't think this one is, really, except sewing. (Which is why we get
>along, since I sew too.)
Well - that's something that could be interesting and even fun. But
with me - that would inevitably lead to wanting to know all about
textiles and that's a huge area of study... Okay - I'm a geek.
>> >Crazy.
>>
>> Indeed. And sad.
>
>Yup.
Well... maybe she has a hidden interest in making kinky costumes that
you just don't know about. Maybe she's been supplying those wacky
Plushies all the time!
Marley Greiner
GR <din...@citycom.com> wrote in message
news:3a9c4396....@news.slip.net...
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:07:30 GMT, "Marley Greiner"
> <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Women keep very very busy actually. Family is the first priority so
there's
> >lots of stuff to do there for stay-at-home women. Cooking especially,
and
> >sewing and clothes washing.
>
> Yeah - there can be a lot of crap to do at home - but do they at least
> get an education first? My friends who now do the home thing finished
> school and started careers before they dropped into babyville. I
> figured that the Russians would have a similar thing going, possibly
> better given their vastly more sophistacted history - though evidently
> I haven't got clue friggin' one what's going on over there these days.
Well, everybody I know is pretty educated, even the bums. Most of them have
the equivalent MA. And then there was Anna Crazy, the aspirant (Ph.D.
student) in English, who got mad at the Tunisian father of her son and
hacked his door down with an ax, only to be set on fire by Mr. Wonderful.
No serious harm was done. She had a burn scar on her leg and complained to
me one day, "Who will want to fuck me with this scar? Hmmmm.
Really, though, since the option is a shit job or stay at home, why not stay
at home. Another friend of mine was married to a guy with a very good job.
She was a German language translator for the Actor's Union, but suffered
from some serious sexual harassment which everybody thinks is fine over
there. She got fed up and took a job as a janitor in the post office for
the same pay and a lot less stress. Everybody had a fit about it. Then
when she got pregnant she decided to call it quits all together and just
stay home with her mother and the baby all day. She said to me once, "why
put up with this when I can be home all day with people who love me." Well,
damned, I don't know. Sounds good to me.
>
>
> >Moving furniture is also fun.
>
> Eek!
>
> >When I'm there,
> >I clean. I clean our flat at least once a day. Seriously.
>
> Whoa. Looking for a place to stay anytime soon
I love to clean other people's homes.
> >I've even cleaned the communal bathroom.
>
> Well - if I couldn't pay anyone else to do it - so would I, I suppose.
> Beats leaving it undone.
Mostly it is undone. We had these pigs across the hall. They only used
newspaper, and then they'd throw it out the window into the courtyard. My
other neighbors were fine.
>
> >I also wash clothes nearly every day in the
> >bathtub, and hang them in the hall.
>
> Omigod. In the *tub*?!? I'm afeared. Any manufacturing on the
> horizon with all these new free-enterprise millionaires?
Lots of people have at least small washers now and some have dryers. They
fit into the bathroom. It would be difficult in a communal flat and
everybody would be jealous and want to borrow it.
>
> >Cooking, of course, is beyond the pale,
> >and I've never figured out how to turn the gas on in the communal flat
> >without an explosion.
>
> Uh... well, at least you survived the explosions you caused (ACS!)
> before you figured out it was time to stop trying. Please tell me
> that the fire hydrants work and they have fire departments... please!
Well, I was in a fire in June 1991. The student housing I was living in was
fire bombed because they didn't pay for the remodeling of the bar. There
wasn't that much damage, about 3 rooms got taken out. I actually thought,
should I leave or stay, but leaving sounded pretty good when the Dutch
students ran through the halls screaming. The Vietnamese (aka The Viet
Cong) went nuts and refused to follow everybody else and decided to make
their own path. Everything they owned was probably with them, and they
hauled all these big bags of rice and smelly food through the halls. So I
got dressed and hauled out my laptop and $2500 in small bills and watched
the Leningrad FD saunter in with cigarettes hanging out of their mouths.
Then there was the time that my babuskha collapsed. I had no idea what to
do so I called Soier who called some emergency number. These 2 EMS chicks
showed up eventually in black cocktail dresses, looking like they'd just
come back from the night disco. They got her back up on her feet and said
they weren't going to do much since Stepanovna was old and would die soon
anyway. I'm rambling, but you asked. Back in the '80's a bunch if
Leningrad firefighters were killed in a huge fire at the Leningrad Hotel
when a TV exploded. They were killed when they used the elevator. Need I
say more....
> > I also walk the streets a lot and shop.
>
> Well, I'm all in favor of that.
>
> >Years ago
> >you had to make a regular excursion to find toilet paper
>
> I remember the stories, but I assumed most of it was propaganda. How
> many years ago are we talking? I'm talking the evil-empire-rag they
> used to play incessantly.
It was real. Lightbulbs were also difficult. For years I took my own with
me.
>
. snip
>
> >Clubbing is also big.
>
> Eh. I'm past it.
But they have sex shows. I once saw one at Baskin Robbins.
>
snip
> >The average Russian woman, though, works very hard. Mostly shit jobs and
> >then at home with the second shit job.
>
> Hmm... sounds suspiciously like a lot of women in the States.
You got it.
>
> >I've never known a Russian women who
> >was intellectually deprived unless she wanted to be. Culture is a part
of
> >everyday life. Even my rudest punk friends have home libraries jammed
with
> >everything from Pushkin to Faulkner, and they are big readers. Most can
> >talk your leg off on art, history, film, and music. They are amazing at
> >world geography. They are horrified at the stupidly of Americans.
>
> Well this is what I'd thought and been told. That's why Yelena
> waiting at home for three years and brainlessly whining struck me as a
> bit odd. Of course, Russian ain't on my loop - so I've never been
> there.
She's a moron. I can understand staying home all day, but I can't
understand the kiddielust.
>
> >I've been enthralled with the idea of becoming a street cleaner myself.
>
> Uh....
>
> >No socializing, I could listen to my walkman,
>
> Okay... I can go for that.
>
> >and wear a spiffy orange outfit.
>
> Can't you just borrow one of those from Robert Downey Jr.? He has a
> bunch of 'em. And... uh... you know orange can be a very tricky color
> to wear, depending on your coloring.
These uniforms are rather military in design. I know, it's hard to
visualize.
>
.
>snip
>
> > And I may add that I may just know peculiar people.
>
> Always possible, but I think you have a fairly keen eye for detail.
> Thanks for the info - I could ask a skillion questions but I don't
> want to bug you any more than I have. Amazing stuff, Marley - truly
> amazing.
>
I'm sure people think I'm making this stuff up, but I swear I'm not.
Marley
Marley Greiner
GR <din...@citycom.com> wrote in message
news:3a9c4957....@news.slip.net...
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:24:00 GMT, "Marley Greiner"
> <maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Guessing from the
> >current state of Russian healthcare now, my guess is that they'd still be
> >difficult to come by unless you had some money.
>
> Ah. The fabulousness of the free-market once again.
Yeah, everything is controlled by some mafia.
>
> >As for condoms? Sure you
> >jest? No Russian man with a sense of dignity would wear one.
>
> Oops. Sorry, my bad.
Actually, I have a couple dozen of them for some reason that I got back in
the '80s. I was also present for the great free condom handout at the Gay
and Lesbian Symposium in St. Petersburg. in 1991 The San Francisco
contingent brought something like 20,000 of them. The really big handout
was in Red Square.
>
> >Couple to
> >this, the denial of AIDS as a serious health problem. I'd say they
would
> >be more prevalent in gay circles and with hets with money, but the
average
> >guy isn't gonna use one. Actually, Russian-made condoms were about
useless
> >anyway. You'd have to wear 2-3 of them. Public health concerns just
aren't
> >an economic priority.
>
> Jesus. I had the vaguest of ideas about this stuff going on over
> there, I'm quite ashamed to admit. Dare I even ask what anyone's
> proposing they do about this?
Who knows. They do things differently there. Things like clean hypos are
(or at least were) impossible to find in hospitals a few years ago. Bigger
cities have better services. If you're sick in a village or out in the
Urals someplace, forget it. Oh, yeah, at the military rehab hospital they
sell drugs out the back door.
>
snip
> >
> >Well, if you've got money you can buy it. I have my very own private
(not
> >government) dentist, Ivanova who is really quite good and probably as
close
> >to painfree as you'll find in St. Petersburg. I filling fell out when I
was
> >there exposing a nerve so Soier and I made the trek down to see her
twice.
> >The first time she cleaned it all out and told me to keep it clean with
> >cotton and baking soda. The second time, I got a tooth xray and she
filled
> >it. All this was done to the accompaniment of martial music. While she
was
> >drilling my tooth(amazingly painfree) she was screaming at her assistant
> >who was cleaning somebody's teeth. While I was waiting for my second
> >appointment, some poor soul was laid out on the bench outside the office
> >moaning that computers had caused his toothache. A woman patient,
holding
> >her head, left another dentist's office on the same floor, and
immediately
> >fell into her mother's lap and wept.
>
> Oy! Marley - you're taking away my absolute fave! I bitch about my
> dentist no end and he's very good.
Ivanova was really quite good. On my second visit while my filling was
settling, she pulled Soier's tooth. I have no idea why, and she took him in
another room to do it. When he came back he handed me his tooth. It was
sort of a whim--a whim neither his sister nor I understood.
Marley
Marley Greiner
The All-Powerful All-Knowing One <ghoul...@aol.com.net> wrote in message
news:20010227162207...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
OK, but WARNING GR: You may not want to read this.
I don't know all the gory details, but there was this guy from NYC who got
this weird eye infection. You know, the kind of thing you only come down
with if you're in a foreign country with antique medical practices. Anyway,
he went to a doctor that a friend of mine arranged, and they told him the
only way to treat it would be for the doctor to stick this very long needle
right into his eye. No pain killers , of course. Well, the guy freaked and
ran out of the place. He called his doctor in NY who told him to get on the
next plane, that the type of ailment he had hadn't been treated that way in
the US for decades.
Marely
>
GR
<maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Marley:
>> >I filling fell out when I was
>> >there exposing a nerve
Kim:
>> Sorry, but this is funny, because the wording suggests that exposing the
>> nerve was the point of your trip!
Marley:
>Oh oh! You figured it out. Next trip will be to contract an eye infection,
>the treatment of which I will not post in deference to GR's delicate
>stomach.
Merci, uh... buckets. (or troughs... they're bigger)
The All-Powerful All-Knowing One
>From: "Marley Greiner" maddog...@worldnet.att.net
>Message-id: <6d%m6.5873$mX4.4...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
snip dorm fire
>The Vietnamese (aka The Viet
>Cong) went nuts and refused to follow everybody else and decided to make
>their own path. Everything they owned was probably with them, and they
>hauled all these big bags of rice and smelly food through the halls.
I didn't know you were rooming with Lisa-Boo's inlaws! How many of them did
YOU have living in YOUR bathroom?
The All-Powerful All-Knowing One
>From: "Marley Greiner" maddog...@worldnet.att.net
Always fun.
Anyway,
>he went to a doctor that a friend of mine arranged, and they told him the
>only way to treat it would be for the doctor to stick this very long needle
>right into his eye. No pain killers , of course.
Aieeeeeeeee!
Well, the guy freaked
>and
>ran out of the place.
I bet!
He called his doctor in NY who told him to get on
>the
>next plane, that the type of ailment he had hadn't been treated that way
>in
>the US for decades.
That settles it - I'm never leaving this country again. We may not have a
perfect foster care system or ideal social programs, we may have a guy in the
White House who makes Dan Quayle look like a cross between Einstein and Sagan,
but our doctors don't "cure" eye infections by sticking HUGE FUCKING NEEDLES IN
OUR FUCKING EYES.
Marley Greiner
The All-Powerful All-Knowing One <ghoul...@aol.com.net> wrote in message
news:20010228041354...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: St. Petersburg (Russia) Times: Someone Else's Baby
> >From: "Marley Greiner" maddog...@worldnet.att.net
> >Date: Tue, Feb 27, 2001 11:34 PM
> >Message-id: <6d%m6.5873$mX4.4...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>
> snip dorm fire
>
> >The Vietnamese (aka The Viet
> >Cong) went nuts and refused to follow everybody else and decided to make
> >their own path. Everything they owned was probably with them, and they
> >hauled all these big bags of rice and smelly food through the halls.
>
> I didn't know you were rooming with Lisa-Boo's inlaws! How many of them
did
> YOU have living in YOUR bathroom?
>
>
> Ghoulagirl
Seven, not including the possum.
Marley
DeannaBefore
> >Subject: Re: St. Petersburg (Russia) Times: Someone Else's Baby
>
> That settles it - I'm never leaving this country again.
Oh, now calm down. You can always visit Canada.
> We may not have a
> perfect foster care system or ideal social programs, we may have a guy in
the
> White House who makes Dan Quayle look like a cross between Einstein and
Sagan,
> but our doctors don't "cure" eye infections by sticking HUGE FUCKING
NEEDLES IN
> OUR FUCKING EYES.
And neither do ours!
GR
<maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> >Women keep very very busy actually. Family is the first priority so
>there's lots of stuff to do there for stay-at-home women. Cooking especially,
>and sewing and clothes washing.
>>
>> Yeah - there can be a lot of crap to do at home - but do they at least
>> get an education first? My friends who now do the home thing finished
>> school and started careers before they dropped into babyville. I
>> figured that the Russians would have a similar thing going, possibly
>> better given their vastly more sophistacted history - though evidently
>> I haven't got clue friggin' one what's going on over there these days.
>
>Well, everybody I know is pretty educated, even the bums. Most of them have
>the equivalent MA. And then there was Anna Crazy, the aspirant (Ph.D.
>student) in English, who got mad at the Tunisian father of her son and
>hacked his door down with an ax,
Impressive!
>only to be set on fire by Mr. Wonderful.
Ah. Mr. Wonderful's an adoptee, huh?
>No serious harm was done. She had a burn scar on her leg and complained to
>me one day, "Who will want to fuck me with this scar? Hmmmm.
There's someone for everyone. James Dean had a thing for amputees,
and he was certainly cute. But don't get me started on poor Jimmy.
>Really, though, since the option is a shit job or stay at home, why not stay
>at home.
Okay - as long as they read while they're there. <g>
> Another friend of mine was married to a guy with a very good job.
>She was a German language translator for the Actor's Union, but suffered
>from some serious sexual harassment which everybody thinks is fine over
>there. She got fed up and took a job as a janitor in the post office for
>the same pay and a lot less stress. Everybody had a fit about it. Then
>when she got pregnant she decided to call it quits all together and just
>stay home with her mother and the baby all day. She said to me once, "why
>put up with this when I can be home all day with people who love me." Well,
>damned, I don't know. Sounds good to me.
Yeah, I hear ya, but her mind was educated before she dropped into
babyville. For some reason this is important to me. I think it goes
along with my whole 'options' outlook on life. If you have them, then
do whatever the fuck you want and good luck to you. If you don't
thave them - then what kind of choices can you really make? I'm
consistent in my own weird way. <g>
>> >Moving furniture is also fun.
>>
>> Eek!
>>
>> >When I'm there,
>> >I clean. I clean our flat at least once a day. Seriously.
>>
>> Whoa. Looking for a place to stay anytime soon?
>
>I love to clean other people's homes.
Marley Greiner........ Come on down!!
>> >I've even cleaned the communal bathroom.
>>
>> Well - if I couldn't pay anyone else to do it - so would I, I suppose.
>> Beats leaving it undone.
>
>Mostly it is undone.
Ack.
>We had these pigs across the hall. They only used
>newspaper, and then they'd throw it out the window into the courtyard.
Eww! Couldn't the go to the wallpaper store? <g>
>My other neighbors were fine.
That's good.
>> >I also wash clothes nearly every day in the
>> >bathtub, and hang them in the hall.
>>
>> Omigod. In the *tub*?!? I'm afeared. Any manufacturing on the
>> horizon with all these new free-enterprise millionaires?
>
>Lots of people have at least small washers now and some have dryers. They
>fit into the bathroom. It would be difficult in a communal flat and
>everybody would be jealous and want to borrow it.
Okay... I get it, but it's still a bummer. (Yeah - I know that
billions live this way on the planet, but I'm a friggin' American
chick and I want everyone to have a washer/dryer)
>> >Cooking, of course, is beyond the pale,
>> >and I've never figured out how to turn the gas on in the communal flat
>> >without an explosion.
>>
>> Uh... well, at least you survived the explosions you caused (ACS!)
>> before you figured out it was time to stop trying. Please tell me
>> that the fire hydrants work and they have fire departments... please!
>
>Well, I was in a fire in June 1991. The student housing I was living in was
>fire bombed because they didn't pay for the remodeling of the bar.
Whoa. Well - that's revenge I guess.
>There
>wasn't that much damage, about 3 rooms got taken out. I actually thought,
>should I leave or stay, but leaving sounded pretty good when the Dutch
>students ran through the halls screaming.
Yeah - that sounds like a good clue...
>The Vietnamese (aka The Viet Cong)
Phred!
>went nuts and refused to follow everybody else and decided to make
>their own path. Everything they owned was probably with them, and they
>hauled all these big bags of rice and smelly food through the halls. So I
>got dressed and hauled out my laptop and $2500 in small bills and watched
>the Leningrad FD saunter in with cigarettes hanging out of their mouths.
LOL... it's awful, I know - I know, but funny!
>Then there was the time that my babuskha collapsed. I had no idea what to
>do so I called Soier who called some emergency number. These 2 EMS chicks
>showed up eventually in black cocktail dresses, looking like they'd just
>come back from the night disco. They got her back up on her feet and said
>they weren't going to do much since Stepanovna was old and would die soon
>anyway.
Holy shit! Uh... what kind of EMS is this, exactly? Oh nevermind,
I'm getting the idea.
>I'm rambling, but you asked.
No! It's fascinating.
>Back in the '80's a bunch if
>Leningrad firefighters were killed in a huge fire at the Leningrad Hotel
>when a TV exploded. They were killed when they used the elevator. Need I
>say more....
ROFLMAO. And I never fucking use that!!! Too fucking funny. Awful -
but funny.
>> > I also walk the streets a lot and shop.
>>
>> Well, I'm all in favor of that.
>>
>> >Years ago
>> >you had to make a regular excursion to find toilet paper
>>
>> I remember the stories, but I assumed most of it was propaganda. How
>> many years ago are we talking? I'm talking the evil-empire-rag they
>> used to play incessantly.
>
>It was real. Lightbulbs were also difficult. For years I took my own with
>me.
No, I mean are we talking pre or post Wall-come-tumbling-down? Are
there more goods and services available now? Is it worth the
trade-offs they've made to get them?
>. snip
>>
>> >Clubbing is also big.
>> Eh. I'm past it.
>
>But they have sex shows.
I remember you talking about a real doozy! I'd go out for that one.
>I once saw one at Baskin Robbins.
LOL... I don't think that's the one you were talking about before.
Uh... so... um... what are they doing at the ice-cream parlor?
>snip
>
>> >The average Russian woman, though, works very hard. Mostly shit jobs and
>> >then at home with the second shit job.
>>
>> Hmm... sounds suspiciously like a lot of women in the States.
>
>You got it.
I was afraid of that.
>> >I've never known a Russian women who
>> >was intellectually deprived unless she wanted to be. Culture is a part
>of
>> >everyday life. Even my rudest punk friends have home libraries jammed
>with
>> >everything from Pushkin to Faulkner, and they are big readers. Most can
>> >talk your leg off on art, history, film, and music. They are amazing at
>> >world geography. They are horrified at the stupidly of Americans.
>>
>> Well this is what I'd thought and been told. That's why Yelena
>> waiting at home for three years and brainlessly whining struck me as a
>> bit odd. Of course, Russian ain't on my loop - so I've never been
>> there.
>
>She's a moron. I can understand staying home all day, but I can't
>understand the kiddielust.
hehehe... okay, got it.
>> >I've been enthralled with the idea of becoming a street cleaner myself.
>>
>> Uh....
>>
>> >No socializing, I could listen to my walkman,
>>
>> Okay... I can go for that.
>>
>> >and wear a spiffy orange outfit.
>>
>> Can't you just borrow one of those from Robert Downey Jr.? He has a
>> bunch of 'em. And... uh... you know orange can be a very tricky color
>> to wear, depending on your coloring.
>
>These uniforms are rather military in design. I know, it's hard to
>visualize.
How's the tailoring? Are there epaulettes (sp?) involved? <g>
>>snip
>>
>> > And I may add that I may just know peculiar people.
>>
>> Always possible, but I think you have a fairly keen eye for detail.
>> Thanks for the info - I could ask a skillion questions but I don't
>> want to bug you any more than I have. Amazing stuff, Marley - truly
>> amazing.
>>
>
>I'm sure people think I'm making this stuff up, but I swear I'm not.
It's too friggin' weird to be made up. No way.
GR
<maddog...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
<snip>
Marley:
>> Next trip will be to contract an eye infection,
>> >the treatment of which I will not post in deference to GR's delicate
>> >stomach.
Evil Kim:
>> Is it grosser than amom recipes or instructions for stuffing and
>mounting rodent heads? Come on, you MUST post it!
>OK, but WARNING GR: You may not want to read this.
Ha.
>I don't know all the gory details, but there was this guy from NYC who got
>this weird eye infection. You know, the kind of thing you only come down
>with if you're in a foreign country with antique medical practices. Anyway,
>he went to a doctor that a friend of mine arranged, and they told him the
>only way to treat it would be for the doctor to stick this very long needle
>right into his eye. No pain killers , of course. Well, the guy freaked and
>ran out of the place. He called his doctor in NY who told him to get on the
>next plane, that the type of ailment he had hadn't been treated that way in
>the US for decades.
Easy-peasy! They didn't even stick the damn needle in. He ran for
his life - it's a *happy* story! Not nearly as bad as the carnage at
the other dentists' offices. But, uh, no need to try to top it, ya
know...
The All-Powerful All-Knowing One
>From: "Marley Greiner" maddog...@worldnet.att.net
>Message-id: <3R5n6.6592$Ea1.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Wow... I'm implessed.
The All-Powerful All-Knowing One
>Date: 2/28/01 10:02 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <km8n6.4914$zi6....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>
>
>
>"The All-Powerful All-Knowing One" <ghoul...@aol.com.net> wrote in message
>news:20010228042415...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
>> >Subject: Re: St. Petersburg (Russia) Times: Someone Else's Baby
>~snip~
>>
>> That settles it - I'm never leaving this country again.
>
>Oh, now calm down. You can always visit Canada.
I like Toranto - very cool city.
>> We may not have a
>> perfect foster care system or ideal social programs, we may have a guy in
>the
>> White House who makes Dan Quayle look like a cross between Einstein and
>Sagan,
>> but our doctors don't "cure" eye infections by sticking HUGE FUCKING
>NEEDLES IN
>> OUR FUCKING EYES.
>
>And neither do ours!
Well, thank God for THAT!
Jackie C
All-Knowing One) wrote:
>>Oh, now calm down. You can always visit Canada.
>
> I like Toranto - very cool city.
Any time.. you wanna visit.. I will show you the sites.
Jackie
The All-Powerful All-Knowing One
>Date: 3/1/01 9:58 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <egns9ts8e3kf428v1...@4ax.com>
Cool - I've already been to the science museum and to the top of the CN
Tower!
Jackie C
All-Knowing One) wrote:
>>Any time.. you wanna visit.. I will show you the sites.
>
> Cool - I've already been to the science museum and to the top of the CN
>Tower!
Hey.. you wanna see a cheese factory..
Jackie
The All-Powerful All-Knowing One
>Message-id: <l4fv9t0k46bcrivgs...@4ax.com>
I would LOVE to see the Cheese Factory. I am fascinated by the Cheese
Factory!