It's fun to shoot some people
Earl Evleth
les necrophiles sont partout.
Earl
*****
WASHINGTON - The commandant of the Marine Corps said Thursday he has
counseled a senior subordinate for saying publicly, "It's fun to shoot some
people."
Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis, an infantry officer who has commanded Marines in
both Afghanistan ( news -web sites ) and Iraq ( news -web sites ), made the
comments Tuesday while speaking to a forum in San Diego about strategies for
the war on terror. Mattis is the commanding general of the Marine Corps
Combat Development Command in Quantico, Va.
According to an audio recording of Mattis' remarks, he said, "Actually, it's
a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. ... It's fun to
shoot some people. I'll be right upfront with you, I like brawling."
He added, "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for
five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know,
guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of
fun to shoot them."
Thursday, Gen. Mike Hagee, commandant of the Marine Corps, issued a
statement saying, "I have counseled him concerning his remarks and he agrees
he should have chosen his words more carefully."
"While I understand that some people may take issue with the comments made
by him, I also know he intended to reflect the unfortunate and harsh
realities of war," Hagee said. "Lt. Gen. Mattis often speaks with a great
deal of candor."
Hagee also praised Mattis, calling him "one of this country's bravest and
most experienced military leaders."
He said the commitment of Marines "helps to provide us the fortitude to take
the lives of those who oppress others or threaten this nation's security.
This is not something we relish, yet we accept it as a reality in our
profession of arms."
He said he was confident Mattis would continue to serve.
According to Mattis' biography, he commanded, as a lieutenant colonel, an
assault battalion during the first war with Iraq. During the war in
Afghanistan, he commanded the 1st Marine Expeditionary Brigade; in the
second war in Iraq, he commanded the 1st Marine Division during the invasion
and early period after the war.
PJ O'Donovan
old teenager.
When I arrived at Parris Island for recruit training, I thought I was
a pretty wiry, tough kid at 6'3" 185 lbs but I learned very quickly
there were some really tougher
mean people in this world. These were the Drill Instructors. Most were
veterans of WWII at places like Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Iwo Jima etc. etc
They had at least 3 stripes on their arms and most walked with slight
limps from their battle wounds..
Some were bigger than me and others I remember were short enough to
come up only to my shoulder. The latter seemed to be the really meaner
to me.
It was very early at PI when I first heard about how much"fun" it was
to "kill those yellow, slanty eyed bastards" from those DI's and it
shook the hell out of me. EventuallyI heard it so much that it wore off
and I concentrated on doing what I was told as best I could toget my
PFC stripe and get out of that place, which I did.
Of course those mean DI's were in WWII and WWII was the "good war" and
that made it OK then.
G W Shrub
"Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:BE293AF7.52B12%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
> WASHINGTON - The commandant of the Marine Corps said Thursday he has
> counseled a senior subordinate for saying publicly, "It's fun to shoot
some
> people."
Tactless, but no doubt true.
--
GW
Sarah Branson
> It was very early at PI when I first heard about how
> much "fun" it was to "kill those yellow, slanty eyed
> bastards" from those DI's and it shook the hell out
> of me.
They say it, but they don't believe, or very few do anyway.
The centre of pacifism in London is our Imperial War Museum, run by
serving officers and NCOs of the UK military. The Dali Lama opened a
Peace Pagoda in the grounds of London's Imperial War museum.
Not a joke.
--
Sarah Branson, Barrister at Law, Coram Chambers,
Ground Floor, 4 Brick Court,Temple, London EC4Y 9AD.
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Earl Evleth
<wh...@my.house> wrote:
The guy was trying to imitate Patton.
Earl
G W Shrub
> The guy was trying to imitate Patton.
Hard to believe there are still people that arrogant!
--
GW
Earl Evleth
<wh...@my.house> wrote:
I just finished two books on the North African Campaign during WWII,
especially the landing of the AngloAmericans in Algeria and the
resulting battle in Tunisia. This initial experience in the war
resulted in the development of the American army in the European
Campaign. That Army did not do well in all but the final portions of
the battle for Tunisia. One author developed one idea of the having
to learn to hate the enemy (after all they were trying to kill you too).
Patton so strongly preached the hate of the enemy even before that.
Killing those who surrendered was frequently practiced and killing
Arabs for the "fun of it" was also practiced. The latter had the
reputation of killing and robbing the Allied soldiers and could
not be trusted, so killing them was OK. It was often payback.
The fact is that these are the grim facts of war, but does one really
have to preach glee in doing so?
The only thing that will be done is "disapprove" and occasionally
try and convict a few for crimes committed.
Earl
richj
"G W Shrub" <wh...@my.house> wrote in message
news:Ue%Md.1496$L_3.438@clgrps13...
Being cocky goes with the territory of combat command. A good combat
commander has that type of arrogance. Without it, he couldn't sent young
men and women out into harm's way to die, and would fight a totally
defensive campaign. The problem is that no war was ever won by defense.
Ask the Japanese what happened when they got placed on defense during
W.W.II.
Teflon
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John Evleth
people and breaking things, is that really hard to comprehend? We know
from empirical evidence that the French prefer to put down their arms
and wave a white flag, but then they haven't been able to defend
themselves for decades.
I don't give a hoot about Arabs, the more of them that are dead, the
better off the world will be.
STILAO
Sarah Branson
> What is the big deal with killing the enemy?
Killing is wrong.
In any case, if you leave it too long, when they come for you, everyone
who would have come to your defence, will be dead.
> I don't give a hoot about Arabs, the more of them
> that are dead, the better off the world will be.
I wish they would adopt more liberal standards.
John Evleth
think the best job would be flying an AC-130 Spectre Gunship; you can
kill thousands within a few minutes with those 3 cannons. Or, firing
some HEP from an M-1 Abrams tank, those wonderful Hellfire missles from
an Apache helo or even better from a Predator UAV. Its like playing a
video game, only you don't need quarters.
G W Shrub
"John Evleth" <jev...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1107729271.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I have to agree. Who would not have liked to be flying in a squadron of
fully armed F-14's when the Germans were attacking England in WW II and
exulted as you blew them all to hell, leaving just one to limp back home and
tell the tale? Or to have been passing out shoulder fired rocket launchers
to the home guard? Where is the time portal when you need one?
--
GW
David Haley
to scribe:
I wonder what those who think it's 'fun' will think when the enemy starts
shooting back. Probably won't be much left to 'think' with after that.
--
~david-haley
david-...@the-haleys.com
(no unmunging necessary)
---------------------------
G W Shrub
"David Haley" <david-...@the-haleys.com> wrote in message
news:1pcd01hdmsgqj1ecf...@4ax.com...
> This day of Sun, 06 Feb 2005 23:13:46 GMT, "G W Shrub" <wh...@my.house>
saw fit
> to scribe:
> >I have to agree. Who would not have liked to be flying in a squadron of
> >fully armed F-14's when the Germans were attacking England in WW II and
> >exulted as you blew them all to hell, leaving just one to limp back home
and
> >tell the tale? Or to have been passing out shoulder fired rocket
launchers
> >to the home guard? Where is the time portal when you need one?
>
> I wonder what those who think it's 'fun' will think when the enemy starts
> shooting back. Probably won't be much left to 'think' with after that.
As has been quoted before, "Some things are worth dying for". My uncle died
in a Spitfire over the channel - he certainly thought so.
--
GW
John Evleth
enemy will shoot back, afterall they ARE THE ENEMY!! Our military acts
with enormous restraint and (too much) emphasis on reducing collateral
damage. If we didn't, we could scorch the earth in a matter of days.
Now scoot away and plonk yourself.
David Haley
to scribe:
>
>"David Haley" <david-...@the-haleys.com> wrote in message
>news:1pcd01hdmsgqj1ecf...@4ax.com...
>> This day of Sun, 06 Feb 2005 23:13:46 GMT, "G W Shrub" <wh...@my.house>
>saw fit
>> to scribe:
>
>> >I have to agree. Who would not have liked to be flying in a squadron of
>> >fully armed F-14's when the Germans were attacking England in WW II and
>> >exulted as you blew them all to hell, leaving just one to limp back home
>and
>> >tell the tale? Or to have been passing out shoulder fired rocket
>launchers
>> >to the home guard? Where is the time portal when you need one?
>>
>> I wonder what those who think it's 'fun' will think when the enemy starts
>> shooting back. Probably won't be much left to 'think' with after that.
>
>As has been quoted before, "Some things are worth dying for". My uncle died
>in a Spitfire over the channel - he certainly thought so.
Very true, but how is this relevant? Did your uncle think it was a hoot and a
blast to shoot and kill people?
G W Shrub
> Very true, but how is this relevant? Did your uncle think it was a hoot
and a
> blast to shoot and kill people?
I never met him, but from what I have been told he thought it his duty.
--
GW
David Haley
to scribe:
>
So what's the relevance? There's a difference between doing your duty and having
fun killing people.
Earl Evleth
"David Haley" <david-...@the-haleys.com> wrote:
> This day of Mon, 07 Feb 2005 07:05:00 GMT, "G W Shrub" <wh...@my.house> saw
> fit
> to scribe:
>
>>
>> "David Haley" <david-...@the-haleys.com> wrote in message
>> news:pf3e01phqgdclg71n...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> Very true, but how is this relevant? Did your uncle think it was a hoot
>> and a
>>> blast to shoot and kill people?
>>
>> I never met him, but from what I have been told he thought it his duty.
>
> So what's the relevance? There's a difference between doing your duty and
> having fun killing people.
Roughly, combat soldiers come in two general categories. 1) warrior types
who like war and 2) those that are there by circumstances and do their duty.
Several quotes I have remembered from WWII combatants. One US Airforce
bomber pilot answered the aggressive question "what did you think about when
you were bombing those civilians" said "I thought that I didn't want to be
there". Another soldier remarked during the North African campaign that
most were fighting to earn the right to go home. They too were where they
did not really want to be. So they kill because they have too and it
is eventually a ticket home.
Warrior types like killing and the excitement of the whole thing. Many
criminals have the same feeling.
Earl
richj
It's the adrenalin rush, Earl. There is no time in the world when you feel
as alive as when your life in in mortal danger in combat. Every sense is
magnified, every capability increased. You are young, in shape, and feel
bulletproof. Of course, casualities tend to bring you back to earth, but
there's the 'God syndrome' to fall back on. "It happens to other guys, but
I'm immortal!"
That rush and even the shakes afterward is one of the best highs you ever
felt.
Teflon
Earl Evleth
<ric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>
> It's the adrenalin rush, Earl. There is no time in the world when you feel
> as alive as when your life in in mortal danger in combat. Every sense is
> magnified, every capability increased. You are young, in shape, and feel
> bulletproof. Of course, casualities tend to bring you back to earth, but
> there's the 'God syndrome' to fall back on. "It happens to other guys, but
> I'm immortal!"
>
> That rush and even the shakes afterward is one of the best highs you ever
> felt.
>
I assume you mean these are the reactions of the "warrior class" types.
The "apres ski" reaction of the others is varied.
This is emotional reactions is long, the joys of combat
are not stressed.
Initial euphoria, relief
Guilt about surviving or not having suffered
as much as others
Anxiety, fear, guilt, worry
Feelings of helplessness, inadequacy,
being overwhelmed
Pervasive concern about well being
of loved ones
Vulnerability
Loss of sense of power, control, well being,
self-confidence, trust
Shame or anger over vulnerability
Irritability, restlessness, super alertness,
impatience, agitation
Anger, blaming (anger at source, anger at those
exempted, anger at those trying to help) or anger
for no reason at all
Frustration
Cynicism, negativity
Mood swings, emotional attacks or pangs.
Despair, grief, sadness
Feelings of emptiness, loss, hopelessness, decreased
trust of others
Reawakening of past trauma or painful experiences
Apathy, diminished interest in usual activities
Feelings of isolation, detachment, estrangement,
no one else can understand
Denial or constriction of feelings, numbness
Flashbacks, intrusive memories of the
event, illusions
Recurrent dreams of the situation
Earl
JIGSAW1695
>From: Earl Evleth evl...@wanadoo.fr
>Date: 2/7/2005 10:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <BE2D475E.53567%evl...@wanadoo.fr>
Are you saying that every one who has been in combat feels that way?
Jigsaw
richj
What's the old line, Earl? Something like "Cowards die a thousand deaths
while a brave man dies but once."
Teflon
Earl Evleth
"JIGSAW1695" <jigsa...@aol.com> wrote:
> Are you saying that every one who has been in combat feels that way?
`
No, but according to the stats kept on US soldiers in combat in the
North African campaign the numbers were high, like perhaps 30%.
it depends on the circumstances and length of engagement.
So Jiggy, don`t fall into the "all or nothing" trap. Patton was
not sympathetic to the concept of "battle fatigue", now renamed
post traumatic whatever. A certain fraction of the people subject
to surviving an air crash, or even automobiles accident, or being
in one of the lower floors and having gotten out at the WTC
building on 9/11 will have problems.
No all of them, not not of them but some of them.
And, oh yes, most people are not John Waynes (when was alive!).
Earl
G W Shrub
> No, but according to the stats kept on US soldiers in combat in the
> North African campaign the numbers were high, like perhaps 30%.
> it depends on the circumstances and length of engagement.
Everyone has a breaking point. It varies from person to person, but there is
a limit to the terror that one can feel before spiralling into depression
which is the body's way of dealing with a hopeless situation.
> So Jiggy, don`t fall into the "all or nothing" trap. Patton was
> not sympathetic to the concept of "battle fatigue", now renamed
> post traumatic whatever. A certain fraction of the people subject
> to surviving an air crash, or even automobiles accident, or being
> in one of the lower floors and having gotten out at the WTC
> building on 9/11 will have problems.
>
> No all of them, not not of them but some of them.
There are still thousands of missing servicemen from the Vietnam war but
they aren't in 'Nam, they're under your local overpass or sleeping over a
steam grate.
> And, oh yes, most people are not John Waynes (when was alive!).
Even John Wayne wasn't a John Wayne.
--
GW
G W Shrub
"richj" <ric...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36pmroF...@individual.net...
> What's the old line, Earl? Something like "Cowards die a thousand deaths
> while a brave man dies but once."
He who fights then runs away, lives to fight another day.
--
GW