Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
A Planet Visitor
The recent actions of Governor Ryan have created a firestorm of
protect in Chicago -- See
http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-nws-roep14.html
Earl's trees in the forest are growing larger than just Brisbon --
Evan Griffith stabbed a fellow inmate at Pontiac in 1990. Victor Ganus
stabbed and strangled another inmate at Menard Correctional Center in
1988. Henry Brisbon stabbed a fellow inmate at Stateville in 1978. Ike
Easley and Roosevelt Lucas murdered Pontiac Supt. Robert Taylor in
1987. Daniel Raines shot a sheriff's deputy while being transported
between jails in 2001. And Anthony Hall stabbed Frieda King to death
in 1983.
All murders committed in the same environment that Governor Ryan
sent them BACK TO.
Quoting --
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Roeper
CONVICTS WHO KILL IN JAIL DESERVING OF NO MERCY
Three thousand six hundred ten. Big number. Keep that number in mind.
We'll get back to it later.
First though, a trial story. In McLean County (Ill.) Circuit Court in the
summer of 1998, the defendant in a sentencing trial was considered so
dangerous he was chained, literally chained, to the courtroom floor.
Drastic--but warranted--as defendant Anthony Hall has a history of violent
outbursts that includes punching a judge in the face and striking a lawyer
in the head with a chair during a hearing in the 1980s.
In the 1998 hearing, a jury was to decide whether Hall should be sentenced
to life in prison or the death penalty for the 1983 murder of Frieda King, a
51-year-old mother of seven who had been stabbed four times in the chest
and had been left to die in a storage room near the kitchen where she worked.
Witnesses who had worked with King were called.
"She treated everyone like she was your mother away from home," said
Juan McGee, according to a June 17, 1998, article in the Bloomington
Pantagraph. "She made you feel human."
Another witness, Ronald Louis, testified: "Frieda was not ... the type to
ride you down, [like other] supervisors."
Frieda King was well-liked on the job. King's sister quoted Frieda as saying,
"Most of [the people I work with] call me 'Mom.' "
The testimony about Hall was from another world. The panel of jurors heard
about Hall's previous conviction for rape in the 1970s. They heard from two
women who had been raped by Hall. Prosecutors showed them the 17-inch
knife Hall had used as a murder weapon on Frieda King, as well as grisly
photos of the crime scene.
When it was over, the jury decided Hall should join the almost 150 other
inmates then on Death Row in Illinois.
What made Hall's sentencing hearing particularly unusual wasn't the fact
he was chained to the floor, nor was it the brutal nature of his crime.
(There are no gentle homicides.) The unique thing about the case is that
the two men quoted above who attested to their fondness for Frieda King
and mourned her death, Juan McGee and Ronald Louis, were hard-core
criminals. They knew King because they were inmates at the Pontiac
Correctional Center, where she worked as a kitchen supervisor.
That's also how Hall knew King. He was behind bars on a robbery-rape
conviction--already locked away for our safety--when he killed the woman
another inmate had described as "your mother away from home."
*********
Perhaps forgotten in the flood of stories unleashed after Gov. George
Ryan's midnight-of-his-tenure issuance of mass clemency to 167 Illinois
inmates on Death Row was that seven of those inmates had committed
their capital crimes while in prison .
Evan Griffith stabbed a fellow inmate at Pontiac in 1990. Victor Ganus
stabbed and strangled another inmate at Menard Correctional Center in
1988. Henry Brisbon stabbed a fellow inmate at Stateville in 1978. Ike
Easley and Roosevelt Lucas murdered Pontiac Supt. Robert Taylor in
1987. Daniel Raines shot a sheriff's deputy while being transported
between jails in 2001.
And Anthony Hall stabbed Frieda King to death in 1983.
These are the kind of creatively evil entities who were given a reprieve
by Ryan last Saturday--monstrous people who can find a motive and a
means to kill, even after they're taken off the streets and absorbed by the
prison system. So forgive me if I don't join those who were dancing and
clapping when Ryan made his blanket clemency announcement. I figure
that when you commit a murder after you've been sentenced for a previous
and serious crime, you've pretty much forfeited your right to draw a breath
on this planet. Take up your appeals with the judges who rule in the afterlife.
*********
Something else I'd like you to consider as you sift through the stories and
opinions and debates: the staggering total of "life-years," i.e., years of life
unlived, that these killers robbed from their victims. (Many Death Row
inmates were multiple killers.)
Consider Kristen Kent, who was 24 when she was murdered by Larry
Scott in 1984. She'd be 43 now. That's 19 life-years and counting that
Scott robbed from her.
Or Ruth Caulk, 41, and her son Shane, 15, killed by John S. Cole Jr. in
1994. Ruth would be 50 this year; Shane would be 24. So many years
they were never allowed to experience.
It's impossible to put an exact figure on the cumulative number of life-years
taken by the 167 murderers who will not be put to death for their crimes.
One can't assume all of the victims, especially the elderly ones, would still
be alive today. But my rough calculations indicate the total stands at 3,610
and counting. Some 3,610 years of lives not lived.
For prisoners who were granted clemency, maybe it's not much of a life
behind bars--but it's still living. You can't blame the loved ones of the victims
for feeling betrayed by Ryan's last-minute "heroics."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PV
Cowboy
they do not executed them fast enough. PV, I like your research. It is a
more through job than I could ever hope to accomplish.
I would like to ask you if perhaps you can use your pension for detail in
this matter to research the cost to taxpayers per annum to house, feed and
medicate these murders on average as I have not seen much information on
this subject. I can only surmise that it has risen proportionately with time
as has all other costs. I'll place my bet now that it is a staggering.
Proponents of eradicating the DP seem to forego the fact that to imprison
someone for a time or to death, penalizes all of us as well. So in turn we
all become victims. The government continues to raise taxes to support a
flawed system that will not do justice and perpetuates the victimization of
law abiding citizens.
My sympathies lay with the families of the victims. We treat the slaughter
of pigs with more dignity by killing them quickly. I say it's more humane to
do the same with Death Row Inmates and execute them within a fortnight after
sentencing.
Cowboy
And yes I'm a Redneck Texan and proud of it!
Earl Evleth
pasdespa...@zeouane.org wrote on 15/01/03 14:58:
> The other point is that The Right, the 'deathie' camp, the Scum, the
> barbarians, the Evil Ones.
I assume you are mainly referring to PV.
He is still swinging by his tail in his tree.
Earl
John Spragge
"Cowboy" <Cow...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8PaV9.57778$Pb.18...@twister.austin.rr.com...
> I would like to ask you if perhaps you can use your pension for detail in
> this matter to research the cost to taxpayers per annum to house, feed and
> medicate these murders on average as I have not seen much information on
> this subject. I can only surmise that it has risen proportionately with
time
> as has all other costs. I'll place my bet now that it is a staggering.
Life sentences still cost considerably less than capital punishment.
The cost of capital punishment
--------------------------------
Estimates of the cost of capital punishment will inevitably vary greatly,
since estimating the cost of each execution requires multiplying the excess
cost of a capital trial by the number of capital trials, and then dividing
the result by the number of executions. I will try to provide a minimum
estimate for the cost of an execution.
Let us then use the cost figures for Texas provided by Dan Cuterer, who
quoted estimates made by two Texas counties. These counties estimated the
cost of a capital trial at between $400,000 and $600,000. If we subtract the
cost of a non-capital murder trial ($75,000) from the median of these
estimates, we get about $425,000 to try each capital defendant.
If we assume that juries will pass a death sentence in 80% of all capital
trials, and that the appeal courts will continue to invalidate about 30% of
all death sentences, we can assume that at most 50% of all capital trials
will result in an actual execution. In that case, the actual cost of each
execution (counting only the initial trial costs) comes in at $850,000.
Invested productively, at a conservative 5% rate of return, that sum would
yield $45,000 per year; more than enough to support a "lifer" in jail
indefinitely, with enough money left over to go some distance toward hiring
an additional jail guard or police officer.
No estimate I know of that allows for the cost of spending a large sum of
money in a single lump arrives at any conclusion but this; indeed, a Florida
study arrived at a total cost (for each execution) of over two million
dollars. Capital punishment does cost more than any other penalty exacted by
the criminal justice system; even my estimates (which reflect only the cost
of the original trials, and not appeals, death row housing, or execution
infrastructure costs) come to this conclusion.
Why the additional costs?
---------------------------
Capital trials cost more for pretty much the same reason general aviation
aircraft cost roughly ten times as much as surface vehicles: the greater
consequences of a failure. Defendants sentenced to life can always continue
to appeal and work toward new evidence while they serve their sentences;
defendants sentenced to death do not have that option. Death sentences also
add an issue to the appellate process; the issue of time. The appeals
process for a life sentence can go on while the convict serves the sentence;
but the defendant can not "serve" a death sentence until the courts have
dealt with all the appeals. This leaves the defence and the prosecution
fighting about not only the factual and legal issues, but also about the
speed of the process.
The nature of capital punishment also makes the determination of culpability
complex. Adjudicating punishment which (under the US. constitution) fits
only the most heinous of murderers involves complex consideration of motive,
state of mind, and other matters a court can never really ascertain. As a
substitute for certainty about the facts, the courts can only resort to a
hair-splitting scrupulousness about the process of determining both guilt
and the degree of guilt. All of this takes both time and money.
Note:
-----
These figures actually represent an optimistic view of the costs of capital
punishment. For references to more complete studies which have reached much
higher cost figures, please see the summary of the cost of executions
published by the Death Penalty Information Centre at
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs2.html
John Rennie
"Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:BA4B285F.8C01%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
No good making these sort of comments on one thread, Earl, and then trying
to appear magisterial, authoritive and not a little pompous on another.
Fred
fact that
> they do not executed them fast enough. PV, I like your research. It
is a
> more through job than I could ever hope to accomplish.
>
> Cowboy
>
> And yes I'm a Redneck Texan and proud of it!
Are you prepared to see your taxes triple to pay for this?
F
Fred
"John Spragge" <john.s...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:RjfV9.3362$%W2.6...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
....
>
> Life sentences still cost considerably less than capital
punishment.
>
If you read the "Sex Slave" story of Colleen Stan and Cameron Hooker,
you will see that the county where the case occurred wanted to drop
the prosecution simply because of the costs involved. And this was
never a DP case. Without the DP draining the whole system there would
be more money for more and better trained police and forensic
scientists, and for more secure prisons. Too many people are
convicted, and even more are wrongly freed, by sloppy police and
crime scene work.
F
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Earl Evleth" <evl...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:BA4B285F.8C01%evl...@wanadoo.fr...
> > in article ndp30b...@lievre.voute.net, Desmond Coughlan at
> > pasdespa...@zeouane.org wrote on 15/01/03 14:58:
> >
> > > The other point is that The Right, the 'deathie' camp, the Scum, the
> > > barbarians, the Evil Ones.
> > I assume you are mainly referring to PV.
> >
> > He is still swinging by his tail in his tree.
> No good making these sort of comments on one thread, Earl, and then trying
> to appear magisterial, authoritive and not a little pompous on another.
A-fucking-men.
Mr Q. Z. D.
--
Drinker, systems administrator, wannabe writer, musician and all-round bastard.
"...Base 8 is just like base 10 really... ((o))
If you're missing two fingers." - Tom Lehrer ((O))
Tim Drake
"John Spragge" <john.s...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:RjfV9.3362$%W2.6...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> news:8PaV9.57778$Pb.18...@twister.austin.rr.com...
>
> > I would like to ask you if perhaps you can use your pension for detail
in
> > this matter to research the cost to taxpayers per annum to house, feed
and
> > medicate these murders on average as I have not seen much information on
> > this subject. I can only surmise that it has risen proportionately with
> time
> > as has all other costs. I'll place my bet now that it is a staggering.
>
> Life sentences still cost considerably less than capital punishment.
Yes, and it is still due to the number of unnecessary appeals that
clog up the courts for months, if not years at a time.
You give the convicted murderer one appeal, and one year to run its
course. After that, the electric chair (not this lethal injection bullshit).
In doing that, the people are happy, the victim's family is happy,
and justice has been served.
Felching for Christ
Drake" <t...@gotham.com> wrote:
> "John Spragge" <john.s...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:RjfV9.3362$%W2.6...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Life sentences still cost considerably less than capital punishment.
>
> Yes, and it is still due to the number of unnecessary appeals that
> clog up the courts for months, if not years at a time.
Look, Timmy, if you can't keep up with the clever things that the
grown-ups say then you shouldn't really be talking to them, should you?
> You give the convicted murderer one appeal, and one year to run
> its
> course. After that, the electric chair (not this lethal injection
> bullshit).
While John Spragge's observation that DP advocates relish the thought of
the DP itself is a dud argument holds for most people, it obviously
doesn't when it is raised concerning Little Timmy Tinytool.
You wanna see 'em _fry_ and their eyes bug out, don't ya, you perverted
little spag?
> In doing that, the people are happy, the victim's family is
> happy,
> and justice has been served.
Timmy, have you looked at the number of wrongly sentenced people who
were exonerated or had their sentences commuted in the first 12 months
that they spent on death row? Check it out and tell me how long that
list is.
You really are a bit dense aren't you, Timmy?
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:14:26 +0000
>
>le Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:01:51 +0100, dans l'article
><BA4B285F.8C01%evl...@wanadoo.fr>, Earl Evleth <evl...@wanadoo.fr> a dit ...
>
>>> The other point is that The Right, the 'deathie' camp, the Scum, the
>>> barbarians, the Evil Ones.
>
>> I assume you are mainly referring to PV.
>>
>> He is still swinging by his tail in his tree.
>
>The jury is still out on whether FW is evil, or just spectacularly stupid.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |Yamaha YZF-R1
>desmond @ zeouane.org |'Ze Ouane!'
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:14:26 +0000
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The Dr. Dolly Coughlan archive exists because Desmond Coughlan lacks conviction
in his words. He won't allow his posts to be archived in Google. Please feel
free to use it to your advantage.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:49:43 +0000
>
>le Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:40:30 -0500, dans l'article
><RjfV9.3362$%W2.6...@news20.bellglobal.com>, John Spragge
><john.s...@sympatico.ca> a dit ...
>
>>> I would like to ask you if perhaps you can use your pension for detail
>>> in this matter to research the cost to taxpayers per annum to house,
>>> feed and medicate these murders on average as I have not seen much
>>> information on this subject. I can only surmise that it has risen
>>> proportionately with time as has all other costs. I'll place my bet now
>>> that it is a staggering.
>
>> Life sentences still cost considerably less than capital punishment.
>>
>> The cost of capital punishment
>
>As well as ...
>
>url:http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/On_Cost.html
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |Yamaha YZF-R1
>desmond @ zeouane.org |'Ze Ouane!'
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
>
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de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:49:43 +0000
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:58:15 +0000
>
>le Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:58:29 GMT, dans l'article
><Vo9V9.88195$Sa3.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, A Planet Visitor
><abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a dit ...
>
>> Today's Chicago Sun-Times article on Convicts who kill in jail.
>> The recent actions of Governor Ryan have created a firestorm of
>> protect in Chicago -- See
>> http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-nws-roep14.html
>>
>> Earl's trees in the forest are growing larger than just Brisbon --
>> Evan Griffith stabbed a fellow inmate at Pontiac in 1990. Victor Ganus
>> stabbed and strangled another inmate at Menard Correctional Center in
>> 1988. Henry Brisbon stabbed a fellow inmate at Stateville in 1978. Ike
>> Easley and Roosevelt Lucas murdered Pontiac Supt. Robert Taylor in
>> 1987. Daniel Raines shot a sheriff's deputy while being transported
>> between jails in 2001. And Anthony Hall stabbed Frieda King to death
>> in 1983.
>
>For once, FuckWit's post raises a few important points, other than the
>obvious one of how FW can be uncultured, crass, classless, and so
>_profoundly_ stupid, and still manage to keep breathing unaided.
>
>The first point is that if these murderers are kept in maximum security
>facilities, it is likely that other than guards, whose security can be
>assured by minimising the contact that they must have with inmates, the
>only people with whom they shall be in contact, are other murderers. Now,
>we in news:alt.activism.death-penalty know that the way to tell if FuckWit
>is being hypocritical is to check whether he is posting, but surely even he
>cannot bring himself to 'complain' about murderers being murdered. Is he
>_that_ much of a retarded, fuckwitted hypocrite ? Or did I just answer my
>own question ?
>
>The other point is that The Right, the 'deathie' camp, the Scum, the
>barbarians, the Evil Ones. Call them what you will, but history shows that
>they are more inclined to violence than abolitionists. Their disregard for
>innocent human life has been demonstrated so often in this newsgroup and in
>the world at large (cf. Barnett Slepian). By contrast, no abolitionist
>has ever engaged in violence towards, for example, a judge who passed down
>a death sentence, or a prison director who carried out an execution, or a
>juror who voted 'guilty' in a capital case.
>
>The protests currently taking place concerning Governor Ryan's brave
>gesture of humanity, probably are being organised by a small core of 'JFA
>Types' who are 'pissed' (sic) that their source of pleasure has been taken
>away, and that they're now going to have to go back to looking at the
>photographs that they have under their mattresses, of children being
>tortured, in order to 'get wood'. However, that doesn't change the fact
>that at this time, Governor Ryan's life is in danger from a deathie.
>
>If I were Governor Ryan, I'd be checking under my car, before I got into
>it, and whilst at home, I'd be staying away from the windows.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |Yamaha YZF-R1
>desmond @ zeouane.org |'Ze Ouane!'
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:58:15 +0000
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Reilly
>> Life sentences still cost considerably less than capital punishment.
>
> Yes, and it is still due to the number of unnecessary appeals
> that clog up the courts for months, if not years at a time.
Ignorant....
> You give the convicted murderer one appeal, and one year to
> run its course. After that, the electric chair (not this lethal
> injection bullshit).
......and vicious.
Gee, that's a winning combination, Tim.
A Planet Visitor
PV
> Earl
>
>
A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message news:2cq30b...@lievre.voute.net...
> le Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:01:51 +0100, dans l'article <BA4B285F.8C01%evl...@wanadoo.fr>, Earl Evleth <evl...@wanadoo.fr>
a dit ...
>
> >> barbarians, the Evil Ones.
>
> > I assume you are mainly referring to PV.
> >
> > He is still swinging by his tail in his tree.
>
>
compiled list of your evil on one side and your stupidity on the other
would... break the backbone of the internet traffic capacity.
My greatest wish is that I am again the leader in verbose comments,
since that demonstrates that I am delving deeper into your psychotic
behavior than any other poster here.
PV
> --
> Ayatollah desi |I'm a "LOSER" and proud of it.
> http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
>
Which insightfully pronounced of you --
"'Cancerous' is almost a complement when one views most of
desi's comments -- other forms spring more easily to mind --
it is a parasitic diarrhea of the brain... it is crazy chick disease
transferred to our thinking process -- it is a swarm of latrine flies
setting on our ability to process information --- it is maggots
feasting on the bodies of numberless victims of murder. It is
madness. utter madness. It is Desmond Coughlan."
Every evil, vile thought that has ever swept across this group from
desi's pen, as Genghis Kahn swept his broad scythe of rape, death
and destruction, in long, broad, excruciating strokes across
Europe, stand as stark images of his perverse character. And
we stand witness to that depravity. desi hopes that murderers
murder each other.
A Planet Visitor
> they do not executed them fast enough. PV, I like your research. It is a
> more through job than I could ever hope to accomplish.
>
opinion is visceral rather than 'learned.' And I would advise not to put too
much credence into my comments, or the comments of any other posters
here, as to factual content. Most will tell you that they KNOW of what they
speak, but are hardly believable when doing so, IMHO. I have often
expressed that I am not here to 'convert' anyone, and would object to
anyone claiming I have converted them, believing them to be foolhardy to
convert their views based on such flimsy ground. I am here only to express
my own opinion, which is often harsh and contentious, but belongs to me
and no one else (Of course, I am also here to attack the evil that dwells
in one particular poster, called desi - which has nothing actually to do with
the DP itself, but more to do with my hatred for evil). I am certainly not
above the common faux pas, and have often misspoken in haste, yet I
honestly assert that I have never done so because I intend to be deceptive.
But, although I have seen such deception from others, I can only advise you
to examine the issue independent of any claim on my part of such deception.
In the end, I could only advise anyone to take EVERYTHING here with a
grain of salt. This is simply a newsgroup, filled with others that we know
nothing about, as to their motivations, and character in real life. I believe
everyone should Investigate both biased and independent sources and
decide for themselves. Since our opinions are ours alone, and belong to
no one else.
> I would like to ask you if perhaps you can use your pension for detail in
> this matter to research the cost to taxpayers per annum to house, feed and
> medicate these murders on average as I have not seen much information on
> this subject. I can only surmise that it has risen proportionately with time
> as has all other costs. I'll place my bet now that it is a staggering.
>
Let me say first that I find placing a 'cost on human life,' to be a rather
offensive subject. Personally, I don't CARE if someone claims to have
proven the DP costs more. Nor do I KNOW if it does. But, if interested
there are many biased sources claiming it does and it doesn't. Two of the
most 'common' sources usually quoted in the newsgroup are --
Anti-DP - Claiming the DP costs more - the DPIC -- see
url:http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs2.html
Pro-DP - Claiming the DP costs less - Dudley Sharp of JFA -- see
url:http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/DP.html#D.%20THE%20COST%20OF%20LIFE%20WITHOUT%20PAROLE%20%20%20VS%20%20%20THE
The only point about 'cost' that concerns me, is the realization on my
part that abolishing the DP, to save money, means that money saved
must come from a lessened degree of due process. Something I find
offensive.
> Proponents of eradicating the DP seem to forego the fact that to imprison
> someone for a time or to death, penalizes all of us as well. So in turn we
> all become victims. The government continues to raise taxes to support a
> flawed system that will not do justice and perpetuates the victimization of
> law abiding citizens.
>
> My sympathies lay with the families of the victims. We treat the slaughter
> of pigs with more dignity by killing them quickly. I say it's more humane to
> do the same with Death Row Inmates and execute them within a fortnight after
> sentencing.
>
I would disagree with that last sentence. Fully believing that due process
should be at least as rigid as it presently is. At the same time, I also hold an
opinion that L wop is immoral when compared with the humane application
of the DP, when society determines it is appropriate and when all due
process has been met.
PV
A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message news:ndp30b...@lievre.voute.net...
> le Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:58:29 GMT, dans l'article <Vo9V9.88195$Sa3.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, A Planet Visitor
<abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a dit ...
>
> > The recent actions of Governor Ryan have created a firestorm of
> > protect in Chicago -- See
> > http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-nws-roep14.html
> >
> > Earl's trees in the forest are growing larger than just Brisbon --
> > Evan Griffith stabbed a fellow inmate at Pontiac in 1990. Victor Ganus
> > stabbed and strangled another inmate at Menard Correctional Center in
> > 1988. Henry Brisbon stabbed a fellow inmate at Stateville in 1978. Ike
> > Easley and Roosevelt Lucas murdered Pontiac Supt. Robert Taylor in
> > 1987. Daniel Raines shot a sheriff's deputy while being transported
> > between jails in 2001. And Anthony Hall stabbed Frieda King to death
> > in 1983.
>
> obvious one of how FW can be uncultured, crass, classless, and so
> _profoundly_ stupid, and still manage to keep breathing unaided.
>
> The first point is that if these murderers are kept in maximum security
> facilities, it is likely that other than guards, whose security can be
> assured by minimising the contact that they must have with inmates, the
> only people with whom they shall be in contact, are other murderers.
I would suppose the fact that they murdered in the same conditions that
desi mentions is lost on him. What is lost on desi is those I have
referenced have ALREADY been in maximum security facilities as
murderers... yet managed to murder again.
> Now,
> we in news:alt.activism.death-penalty know that the way to tell if FuckWit
> is being hypocritical is to check whether he is posting, but surely even he
> cannot bring himself to 'complain' about murderers being murdered. Is he
> _that_ much of a retarded, fuckwitted hypocrite ? Or did I just answer my
> own question ?
>
WHAT!!!! We shouldn't 'complain' about murderers being murdered???
You total, complete, mentally masturbating imbecile!!! NO ONE DESERVES
to be murdered. FULL STOP... Apparently you seem to believe it's not right
for society to execute a murderer... but they can go right ahead and murder if
they're in prison together.
> The other point is that The Right, the 'deathie' camp, the Scum, the
> barbarians, the Evil Ones. Call them what you will, but history shows that
> they are more inclined to violence than abolitionists.
It would appear that is not the case with you... if you are in fact an
abolitionist... and not someone interested only in torturing animals...
watching cats torture and devour birds... and stand hoping to watch
murderers devour each other... and so forth... and so on.
As you posted with YOUR words --
"I engage in 'abuse' of deathies as a matter of course. That's what they're
there for. `echo $DEITY` gave them to us, much as She gave sparrows to
the domestic cat. They're our playthings. They have no relevance in the
real world, except to remind us of the dark side to human nature, that can
exist in all of us. They're like child rapists. Nazis. Torturers of
small animals.
All this pretence of 'let's be civil to one another' is nauseating. How can
you be 'civil' to garbage ?"
> Their disregard for
> innocent human life has been demonstrated so often in this newsgroup and in
> the world at large (cf. Barnett Slepian).
Actually, that would be Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy... those
are your mentors, desi... those and others like them... none other.
> By contrast, no abolitionist
> has ever engaged in violence towards, for example, a judge who passed down
> a death sentence, or a prison director who carried out an execution, or a
> juror who voted 'guilty' in a capital case.
Apparently you only wish to 'cheer those murderers on' when they try to
murder each other. Humane execution is not for you... you need some
REAL 'blood and guts,' spread across the canvas of life. Such as your
post of
url:http://www.zeouane.org/dp/blonde.html
>
> The protests currently taking place concerning Governor Ryan's brave
> gesture of humanity,
LOL. Finally... a glimpse of irony from you.
> probably are being organised by a small core of 'JFA
> Types' who are 'pissed' (sic) that their source of pleasure has been taken
> away, and that they're now going to have to go back to looking at the
> photographs that they have under their mattresses, of children being
> tortured, in order to 'get wood'.
See your own obsession in the URL that you provided. And your
'getting wood,' as you described a teenage girl, murdered and falling
to her death. The murder you described in searing, explicit sexual detail.
The girl wears no panties.. her thighs splay as she falls.. her pubic area
is exposed.. the juices of rape flow over desi... a wet spot forms on the
front of desi's pants as he describes the scene. Oh.. we see who
is intent on 'getting wood,' in this group. Your unhealthy desire for 'the
younger, the better,' with Sarah Hughes and jigsaw's niece.
> However, that doesn't change the fact
> that at this time, Governor Ryan's life is in danger from a deathie.
>
Actually, he's in danger of jail.
> If I were Governor Ryan, I'd be checking under my car, before I got into
> it, and whilst at home, I'd be staying away from the windows.
>
Sure... watch out for those imaginary firebombs. You lying fruitcake.
> --
> Ayatollah desi |Superlunary and Most Exalted
|Spiritual Leader of the Universal
|Right to Life Church. (umm... get
|away from me -- you filthy black
|starving child in Africa) 'My church'
|isn't for you.
John Spragge
news:yhsV9.128754$j8.34...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> Pro-DP - Claiming the DP costs less - Dudley Sharp of JFA -- see
>
url:http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/DP.html#D.%20THE%20COST%20OF%20LIFE%20WIT
HOUT%20PAROLE%20%20%20VS%20%20%20THE
The "Justice for All" estimates ignore the interest costs of spending a very
large sum of money in a lump sum.
JIGSAW1695
Date: 1/16/2003 1:27 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <yhsV9.128753$j8.34...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
PV
===============================
We saw it coming last year. It is a progressive thing. Hoepfully Earl will be
kept away from sharp objects and not aloowed to wander outside without an
escort.
Benny Deeni
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
What's interesting is that when I point out that the infinitely small risk
of an innocent being executed is pretty much limited to those who
have already led a criminal lifestyle, some DP opponents jump
all over me for even pointing that out, and even accuse me of proposing
that we should execute innocent folks. Yet these same DP opponents
don't seem to have a problem with putting other prisoners at risk by
housing them with brutal murderers.
Just another anti-dp inconsistency.
<rest snipped>
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
<natsa...@excite.com> wrote:
> What's interesting is that when I point out that the infinitely small
> risk
> of an innocent being executed is pretty much limited to those who
> have already led a criminal lifestyle, some DP opponents jump
> all over me for even pointing that out,
Last I heard, "[leading] a criminal lifestyle" was not an offence
punishable by death.
Benny Deeni
"Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> wrote in
message news:jonathan-8270AB...@newsroom.utas.edu.au...
> In article <gIIV9.2584$F_3....@news.bellsouth.net>, "Benny Deeni"
> <natsa...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> > What's interesting is that when I point out that the infinitely small
> > risk
> > of an innocent being executed is pretty much limited to those who
> > have already led a criminal lifestyle, some DP opponents jump
> > all over me for even pointing that out,
>
> Last I heard, "[leading] a criminal lifestyle" was not an offence
> punishable by death.
>
> Mr Q. Z. D.
Never said it was, as you well know. Nice troll, though...
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
<natsa...@excite.com> wrote:
> "Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> wrote
> in
> message news:jonathan-8270AB...@newsroom.utas.edu.au...
> > In article <gIIV9.2584$F_3....@news.bellsouth.net>, "Benny Deeni"
> > <natsa...@excite.com> wrote:
> >
> > > What's interesting is that when I point out that the infinitely small
> > > risk
> > > of an innocent being executed is pretty much limited to those who
> > > have already led a criminal lifestyle, some DP opponents jump
> > > all over me for even pointing that out,
> >
> > Last I heard, "[leading] a criminal lifestyle" was not an offence
> > punishable by death.
> Never said it was, as you well know. Nice troll, though...
It's not a troll. I find it disconcerting that you are not particularly
concerned about the possible execution of innocents because those most
likely to be executed in error have chosen to "[lead] a criminal
lifestyle".
Why did you mention that at all if it isn't a part of your position?
Benny Deeni
"Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> wrote in
> In article <FxKV9.2922$F_3...@news.bellsouth.net>, "Benny Deeni"
> <natsa...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> > "Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks>
wrote
> > in
> > message news:jonathan-8270AB...@newsroom.utas.edu.au...
> > > In article <gIIV9.2584$F_3....@news.bellsouth.net>, "Benny Deeni"
> > > <natsa...@excite.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > What's interesting is that when I point out that the infinitely
small
> > > > risk
> > > > of an innocent being executed is pretty much limited to those who
> > > > have already led a criminal lifestyle, some DP opponents jump
> > > > all over me for even pointing that out,
> > >
> > > Last I heard, "[leading] a criminal lifestyle" was not an offence
> > > punishable by death.
>
> > Never said it was, as you well know. Nice troll, though...
>
> It's not a troll. I find it disconcerting that you are not particularly
> concerned
Of course I'm "concerned." Do you think I want to see the real murderer
walking around free??? Give me a break. What I find disconcerting is
that you are reluctant to admit that the criminals who are "wrongfully
convicted" are partly responsible for their predicament. How you can
make no differentiation between someone like Rolando Cruz (who
made himself a suspect by pretending to know details of a murder
in order to get reward money) and a law abiding citizen who
might be convicted due to frame up is beyond me.
> about the possible execution of innocents because those most
> likely to be executed in error have chosen to "[lead] a criminal
> lifestyle".
>
> Why did you mention that at all if it isn't a part of your position?
>
> Mr Q. Z. D.
I've explained this about 50 times already, but I'll give it one more shot.
There is a risk that innocents will die:
a) if we have a DP (ie, an innocent person could be executed)
b) if we don't have the DP (ie, the non-executed murder could go on to
murder again.)
So with A), the risk is limited to criminals. With B), the risk is not
limited to criminals, but
applies to law abiding citizens as well.
Let me ask you a question. Say I gave you a gun and forced you to shoot
either person A or person B. You would have to choose which one to kill.
The only thing you knew about A and B is that there is a 98% chance A is a
career criminal, while there is a 50% chance that B is a criminal and a 50%
chance
he is a law abiding citizen, possibly a child. Who would you shoot?
I don't know how I can explain it any clearer.
Fred
"Benny Deeni" <natsa...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:OGLV9.3197$F_3....@news.bellsouth.net...
>
...
>
...How you can
> make no differentiation between someone like Rolando Cruz (who
> made himself a suspect by pretending to know details of a murder
But if the system is as great as it is purported to be, this cannot
happen. Since it did happen, the system is not working.
F
Mr Q. Z. Diablo
<natsa...@excite.com> wrote:
[snip]
> I've explained this about 50 times already, but I'll give it one more
> shot.
> There is a risk that innocents will die:
> a) if we have a DP (ie, an innocent person could be executed)
> b) if we don't have the DP (ie, the non-executed murder could go on to
> murder again.)
>
> So with A), the risk is limited to criminals. With B), the risk is not
> limited to criminals, but
> applies to law abiding citizens as well.
What a monstrous canard! If there is a DP, the risk of an innocent
being executed is manifestly _not_ limited to criminals and I can't see
how you could make such a claim.
> Let me ask you a question. Say I gave you a gun and forced you to shoot
> either person A or person B. You would have to choose which one to kill.
> The only thing you knew about A and B is that there is a 98% chance A is
> a
> career criminal, while there is a 50% chance that B is a criminal and a
> 50%
> chance
> he is a law abiding citizen, possibly a child. Who would you shoot?
I would shoot the person very likely to be a career criminal, for sure.
Shooting either is, of course, morally unacceptable to most people.
JIGSAW1695
Date: 1/16/2003 11:44 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <OGLV9.3197$F_3....@news.bellsouth.net>
===============================
Regardless of which one he shot, the charge would be first degree murder. The
shooter, facing the dp, would then roll over on you, giving you up as the
mastermind.
You would be tried, found guilty and executed. The shooter would be out in
twenty years.
A Planet Visitor
"gfg" <gfg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:slrnb2bstg.q4h.p...@lievre.voute.net...
>
> >> Life sentences still cost considerably less than capital punishment.
>
> > Yes, and it is still due to the number of unnecessary appeals that
> > clog up the courts for months, if not years at a time.
>
>
ROTFLMAO.. desi.. you're a mental midget. You're probably counting
the extra cost for lunches for the jury during the trial.
PS -- I miss your handle.
PV
Tim Drake
>----- Original Message -----
From: "Reilly" <lift@horizon>
Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
> "Tim Drake" <t...@gotham.com> wrote
> > "John Spragge" <john.s...@sympatico.ca> wrote
> > > "Cowboy" <Cow...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >> Life sentences still cost considerably less than capital punishment.
> >
> > Yes, and it is still due to the number of unnecessary appeals
> > that clog up the courts for months, if not years at a time.
>
> Ignorant....
No, try fact. When someone is given the death penalty, the sentence
is automatically appealed. The appeal has to go through a number of courts
before eventually hitting the U.S. Supreme Court, which may (or not) hear
the case. The killer's attorney can then run another appeal through on
whatever grounds, no matter how frivolous. That is why it takes as long as
it does (a decade on average) between sentencing and execution.
Certainly a life sentence costs the state less money. But that is
only because they don't get the same kind of appeals process people given
death do. No one who is against the death penalty will tell you that,
because they don't want you to know. It gets in the way of their argument.
>
> > You give the convicted murderer one appeal, and one year to
> > run its course. After that, the electric chair (not this lethal
> > injection bullshit).
>
> ......and vicious.
What could be MORE vicious:
""Sometimes, 4-year-old Jordan Evans tells his little brother,
Elijah, about their mother," the 1998 Associated Press story reads. " 'Our
mom's name was Debbie,' " Jordan's grandfather heard him say one day. "And
she was good."
Jordan will never know his mother, who was brutally murdered the very
night he was born. But thanks to Gov. George Ryan - who issued blanket
commutations to all 156 prisoners on death row on Saturday, just two days
before leaving office - the sentences of two of the predators responsible
for her murder, Jacqueline Williams and Fedell Caffey, were commuted to life
imprisonment.
One night in November 1995, Jordan and Elijah's pregnant mother,
Debbie Evans, was brutally murdered by Williams and Caffey, who invaded her
suburban Chicago apartment. The killers stabbed Miss Evans in the throat and
shot her in the head. Then, as she lay dying, they tore Elijah from the
womb. They stabbed Elijah's 10-year-old sister, Samantha, to death. Then,
they kidnapped his 8-year-old brother, Joshua, whose corpse was found in an
alley the following day. Williams and Caffey left Jordan behind; when police
found him, he was stained with his mother's blood."
OR:
Putting a murderer in the electric chair instead of giving him a
sedative to induce sleep before giving him a lethal dose of a poisonous
substance.
Shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
>
>
Benny Deeni
"Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> wrote in
> In article <OGLV9.3197$F_3....@news.bellsouth.net>, "Benny Deeni"
> <natsa...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > I've explained this about 50 times already, but I'll give it one more
> > shot.
> > There is a risk that innocents will die:
> > a) if we have a DP (ie, an innocent person could be executed)
> > b) if we don't have the DP (ie, the non-executed murder could go on to
> > murder again.)
> >
> > So with A), the risk is limited to criminals. With B), the risk is not
> > limited to criminals, but
> > applies to law abiding citizens as well.
>
> What a monstrous canard! If there is a DP, the risk of an innocent
> being executed is manifestly _not_ limited to criminals and I can't see
> how you could make such a claim.
>
How can you claim otherwise, at least with regard to the United States?
Again you have nothing but baseless opinion.
Maybe you can consult Mitch Holman,
the anti-dp expert who could only come up with one example of
someone with no previous record who had a death sentence vacated.
And in that case, the guy was released after 2 years, so he was nowhere
near being executed. Rolando Cruz was a criminal, and I read that Anthony
Porter was an armed robber. Feel free to come up with an example of
law abiding citizens who came close to being executed. Of course I am
only referring to the United States, since I can't speak about other
countries.
> > Let me ask you a question. Say I gave you a gun and forced you to shoot
> > either person A or person B. You would have to choose which one to
kill.
> > The only thing you knew about A and B is that there is a 98% chance A is
> > a
> > career criminal, while there is a 50% chance that B is a criminal and a
> > 50%
> > chance
> > he is a law abiding citizen, possibly a child. Who would you shoot?
>
> I would shoot the person very likely to be a career criminal, for sure
Okay, so you see my point.
> Shooting either is, of course, morally unacceptable to most people.
Sigh. There was no moral aspect to that analogy, but then again you
knew that. It was to show that given a risk that is *unavoidable*, which
would be the better choice.
A Planet Visitor
"Mr Q. Z. Diablo" <jona...@zeouane.org.remove.this.it.is.bollocks> wrote in message
> In article <OGLV9.3197$F_3....@news.bellsouth.net>, "Benny Deeni"
> <natsa...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > I've explained this about 50 times already, but I'll give it one more
> > shot.
> > There is a risk that innocents will die:
> > a) if we have a DP (ie, an innocent person could be executed)
> > b) if we don't have the DP (ie, the non-executed murder could go on to
> > murder again.)
> >
> > So with A), the risk is limited to criminals. With B), the risk is not
> > limited to criminals, but
> > applies to law abiding citizens as well.
>
> What a monstrous canard! If there is a DP, the risk of an innocent
> being executed is manifestly _not_ limited to criminals and I can't see
> how you could make such a claim.
I'm sure he was speaking in relative terms, Mr. D. He's been making
the point throughout that 'those placed at risk of execution,' are 'almost'
exclusively drawn from a pool of those having a criminal past of some
kind. That's hardly totally false, since sentencing to the DP is always
accompanied by an aggravating circumstance which is not offset by
a mitigating circumstance to that sentence, as I understand it. If
anyone knows of a State which does not require such an aggravating
circumstance to sentence to the DP, I'd be interested in knowing which
State that is, so I might look at the statutes if available on line. That
certainly is not meant to imply by me that 'they deserve it,' or that
it changes the fact they are 'not guilty' of the crime in question.
>
> > Let me ask you a question. Say I gave you a gun and forced you to shoot
> > either person A or person B. You would have to choose which one to kill.
> > The only thing you knew about A and B is that there is a 98% chance A is
> > a
> > career criminal, while there is a 50% chance that B is a criminal and a
> > 50%
> > chance
> > he is a law abiding citizen, possibly a child. Who would you shoot?
>
> I would shoot the person very likely to be a career criminal, for sure.
> Shooting either is, of course, morally unacceptable to most people.
>
As usual.. a very forthright answer from Mr. D. to a query that certainly
was not easy for him, given his pacifist views. You could have provided
a hem and a haw.. but you did not. Good for you, Mr. D.
PV
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 01:02:43 +0000
>
>le Sat, 18 Jan 2003 01:01:24 GMT, dans l'article <EH1W9.9578$o8.165857@tw=
>ister.tampabay.rr.com>, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a dit ...=20
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> What a monstrous canard! If there is a DP, the risk of an innocent
>>> being executed is manifestly _not_ limited to criminals and I can't se=
>e
>>> how you could make such a claim.
>
>> I'm sure he was speaking in relative terms, Mr. D. He's been making
>> the point throughout that 'those placed at risk of execution,' are 'alm=
>ost'
>> exclusively drawn from a pool of those having a criminal past of some
>> kind. That's hardly totally false, since sentencing to the DP is alway=
>s
>> accompanied by an aggravating circumstance which is not offset by
>> a mitigating circumstance to that sentence, as I understand it. If
>> anyone knows of a State which does not require such an aggravating
>> circumstance to sentence to the DP, I'd be interested in knowing which
>> State that is, so I might look at the statutes if available on line. T=
>hat
>> certainly is not meant to imply by me that 'they deserve it,' or that
>> it changes the fact they are 'not guilty' of the crime in question.
>
>Just run a 'goggle' (sic) search, and then claim to have known all along.
>'Plus =E7a change' ...=20
>
>>> > Let me ask you a question. Say I gave you a gun and forced you to s=
>hoot
>>> > either person A or person B. You would have to choose which one to =
>kill.
>>> > The only thing you knew about A and B is that there is a 98% chance =
>A is
>>> > a
>>> > career criminal, while there is a 50% chance that B is a criminal an=
>d a
>>> > 50%
>>> > chance
>>> > he is a law abiding citizen, possibly a child. Who would you shoot?
>
>>> I would shoot the person very likely to be a career criminal, for sure=
>.
>>> Shooting either is, of course, morally unacceptable to most people.
>
>> As usual.. a very forthright answer from Mr. D. to a query that certain=
>ly
>> was not easy for him, given his pacifist views. You could have provide=
>d
>> a hem and a haw.. but you did not. Good for you, Mr. D.
>
>LMAO ... FuckWit is feeling lonely.
>
>--=20
>Desmond Coughlan |Yamaha YZF-R1
>desmond @ zeouane.org |'Ze Ouane!'
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
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>
>
Poor Desi, drunk again! The Dr. Dolly Coughlan archive exists because Desmond
Jonathan
Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
I don't believe that there is one. There appears to be little belief in
a retributive DP from the point of view of legislators in the USA.
> That
> certainly is not meant to imply by me that 'they deserve it,' or that
> it changes the fact they are 'not guilty' of the crime in question.
> >
> > > Let me ask you a question. Say I gave you a gun and forced you to
> > > shoot
> > > either person A or person B. You would have to choose which one to
> > > kill.
> > > The only thing you knew about A and B is that there is a 98% chance A
> > > is
> > > a
> > > career criminal, while there is a 50% chance that B is a criminal and
> > > a
> > > 50%
> > > chance
> > > he is a law abiding citizen, possibly a child. Who would you shoot?
> >
> > I would shoot the person very likely to be a career criminal, for sure.
> > Shooting either is, of course, morally unacceptable to most people.
> >
> As usual.. a very forthright answer from Mr. D. to a query that certainly
> was not easy for him, given his pacifist views. You could have provided
> a hem and a haw.. but you did not. Good for you, Mr. D.
I thought about it. Believe me. Then I realised that it would be less
than honourable to avoid giving an answer to a fair but difficult
question.
--
Jonathan Elliott
Systems Administrator
University of Tasmania
The views expressed in this Usenet post in no way represent the views
of the University of Tasmania.
Jonathan
<natsa...@excite.com> wrote:
You are not speaking logically. You are talking about the history of
the DP. Logically, if there is a DP then there is a chance that persons
who are _not_ criminals and have no criminal history will be executed in
error. You cannot argue otherwise. Therefore your claim (A) is
incorrect.
If you wish to speak about the history of the DP in the USA, I am sure
that the number of "non-criminal" innocents who have come close to
execution is limited. That was not what I was taking issue with.
> > > Let me ask you a question. Say I gave you a gun and forced you to
> > > shoot
> > > either person A or person B. You would have to choose which one to
> kill.
> > > The only thing you knew about A and B is that there is a 98% chance A
> > > is
> > > a
> > > career criminal, while there is a 50% chance that B is a criminal and
> > > a
> > > 50%
> > > chance
> > > he is a law abiding citizen, possibly a child. Who would you shoot?
> >
> > I would shoot the person very likely to be a career criminal, for sure
>
> Okay, so you see my point.
Not really.
> > Shooting either is, of course, morally unacceptable to most people.
>
> Sigh. There was no moral aspect to that analogy, but then again you
> knew that. It was to show that given a risk that is *unavoidable*,
> which
> would be the better choice.
Eliminating the risk (or, at least, reducing it to an infinitessimal
level) is the best choice. A properly managed LWOP system can give us
that. It has been shown to be effective in the UK and Australia and I'm
sure that the USA could follow suit if its policy makers could be
motivated in the right direction. After all, states in the USA execute
perhaps 70 people in total in any given year. Why not reduce that
number to zero? I'd be prepared to bet my left nut that it would not
have any effect on trends in the murder rate in the USA.
Jonathan
jigsa...@aol.com (JIGSAW1695) wrote:
[snip]
> Regardless of which one he shot, the charge would be first degree murder.
> The
> shooter, facing the dp, would then roll over on you, giving you up as the
> mastermind.
>
> You would be tried, found guilty and executed. The shooter would be out
> in
> twenty years.
Jiggy. You're just...weird.
JIGSAW1695
Date: 1/17/2003 10:48 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <Jonathan.Elliott-E1...@newsroom.utas.edu.au>
In article <20030117015411...@mb-cj.aol.com>,
jigsa...@aol.com (JIGSAW1695) wrote:
[snip]
> Regardless of which one he shot, the charge would be first degree murder.
> The
> shooter, facing the dp, would then roll over on you, giving you up as the
> mastermind.
>
> You would be tried, found guilty and executed. The shooter would be out
> in
> twenty years.
Jiggy. You're just...weird.
===============================
But accurate.
John Spragge
"Tim Drake" <t...@gotham.com> wrote in message
news:usUV9.526$Lh1.20...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> Certainly a life sentence costs the state less money. But that is
> only because they don't get the same kind of appeals process people given
> death do.
No. Capital punishment would cost the state more, even if the law allowed no
appeals whatever. The capital appeals process increases the magnitude by
which executions cost more than life sentences, but the initial capital
trials required for each execution cost more than life sentences all by
themselves.
A Planet Visitor
"John Spragge" <john.s...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:rjmW9.13240$fK.14...@news20.bellglobal.com...
silly conclusions? The trials themselves are more expensive. But
you would need to do more than just make such a statement without
something more to back it up, IMHO, for me to believe your claim.
Considering the vast difference in the cost of appeals, and the
greater life expectancy of those sentenced to life. Let me say
what I believe is the typical path a DP takes in the appeals process -
The first appeal is usually to an intermediate State Court of Appeals.
Constitutionally, an appeal to the State Supreme Court then follows.
After that, another appeal to the U.S. District Court. Then another
appeal to the U.S. Court of Appeals. Then another appeal to the
U.S. Supreme Court. And often the cycle is repeated. Would that
same due process exist in L wop? And if so, where does THAT
money come from?
Understand that 70% of death sentences are overturned, quite
a bit more than overturns for Life sentences, and that a much higher
percentage continue to make the rounds of various appellate
courts. A typical case might go from trial, to State Supreme,
to U.S. District, to U.S. Court of Appeals which remands to
U.S.District, who rehears the case, and sends it back to U.S.
Appeals, then to U.S. Supreme which sends it back down
to state Supreme on a different issue, the state Supreme
corrects some minor error after which the case goes back to
U.S. District, and finally to U.S. Appeals which affirms (and
U.S. Supreme hears a request for appeal but denies). Then
the sentence is carried out, IF a new trial has not been ordered
because of some error, or there is no prejudice attached to
an overturn and the prosecutor decides to try again -- Maybe...
If the governor does not pardon or commute, either individually
or en bloc, as Ryan did, or the cycle does not start again on
a different issue at appeal. Which part of this would you deny
those who are no longer sentenced to the DP, but now receive
L wop? And how much EASIER would it be for a jury to now
sentence someone to L wop, thinking to themselves that it's
not 'actually' taking a life, thus now believing 'perhaps' the
evidence does meet the criteria of 'beyond a reasonable doubt'?
Since it is IMHO 'easier' for a human to pretend it is NOT 'life
and death' he/she is deciding upon in the guilt/innocence
phase if there is no DP available in the sentencing phase.
PV
Fred
"Cowboy" <Cow...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8PaV9.57778$Pb.18...@twister.austin.rr.com...
> I am a Death Penalty supporter. I'm am only disappointed with the
fact that
> they do not executed them fast enough. PV, I like your research. It
is a
> more through job than I could ever hope to accomplish.
>
detail in
> this matter to research the cost to taxpayers per annum to house,
feed and
> medicate these murders on average as I have not seen much
information on
> this subject. I can only surmise that it has risen proportionately
with time
> as has all other costs. I'll place my bet now that it is a
staggering.
>
imprison
> someone for a time or to death, penalizes all of us as well. So in
turn we
> all become victims. The government continues to raise taxes to
support a
> flawed system that will not do justice and perpetuates the
victimization of
> law abiding citizens.
>
> My sympathies lay with the families of the victims. We treat the
slaughter
> of pigs with more dignity by killing them quickly. I say it's more
humane to
> do the same with Death Row Inmates and execute them within a
fortnight after
> sentencing.
>
>
> And yes I'm a Redneck Texan and proud of it!
Then explain to me why Gary Graham was executed and T. Cullen Davis
was not convicted - twice.
F
A Planet Visitor
"Fred" <no-...@nowhere.nohow> wrote in message news:hznX9.35483$536.1...@news2.telusplanet.net...
Once) Gary Graham was found guilty. T. Cullen Davis was not.
Twice ) Gary Graham was found guilty. T. Cullen Davis was not.
<sarcasm off>
___|___
|
^
> F
Fred
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
news:8XrX9.28027$o8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "Fred" <no-...@nowhere.nohow> wrote in message
news:hznX9.35483$536.1...@news2.telusplanet.net...
> >
> > >
> > > And yes I'm a Redneck Texan and proud of it!
> >
> > Then explain to me why Gary Graham was executed and T. Cullen
Davis
> > was not convicted - twice.
> >
> <sarcasm on>
> Once) Gary Graham was found guilty. T. Cullen Davis was not.
> Twice ) Gary Graham was found guilty. T. Cullen Davis was not.
> <sarcasm off>
So you are a racist then?
F
JIGSAW1695
Date: 1/22/2003 3:31 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <zcDX9.41242$536.2...@news2.telusplanet.net>
F
===============================
You are going to have to do better than that Fred.
Such a reply will get you laughed off the board. People will start wondering if
you are a teenager.
Richard J
> le Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:31:27 GMT, dans l'article <zcDX9.41242$536.2...@news2.telusplanet.net>, Fred <no-...@nowhere.nohow> a dit ...
>
> { snip }
>
>
>>So you are a racist then?
>
>
> [sic]', and the Germans to be 'thick as fuck', is certainly racist.
>
Even if for a good many of them it happens to be true?
Teflon
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:10:23 +0000
>
>le Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:31:27 GMT, dans l'article
><zcDX9.41242$536.2...@news2.telusplanet.net>, Fred <no-...@nowhere.nohow>
>a dit ...
>
>{ snip }
>
>> So you are a racist then?
>
>Anyone who considers the Arabs to be 'theiving [sic], untrustworthy cunt's
>[sic]', and the Germans to be 'thick as fuck', is certainly racist.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |Yamaha YZF-R1
>desmond @ zeouane.org |'Ze Ouane!'
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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be!skynet.be!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-fo
r-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:10:23 +0000
>Lines: 14
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>References: <Vo9V9.88195$Sa3.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><8PaV9.57778$Pb.18...@twister.austin.rr.com>
><hznX9.35483$536.1...@news2.telusplanet.net>
><8XrX9.28027$o8.6...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><zcDX9.41242$536.2...@news2.telusplanet.net>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
>X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1043270231 28801489 212.198.68.117 (16 [91468])
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:18:03 +0000
>
>le Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:00:29 -0600, dans l'article
><3E2F228D...@hotmail.com>, Richard J <ric...@hotmail.com> a dit ...
>
>>>>So you are a racist then?
>
>>> Anyone who considers the Arabs to be 'theiving [sic], untrustworthy cunt's
>>> [sic]', and the Germans to be 'thick as fuck', is certainly racist.
>
>> Even if for a good many of them it happens to be true?
>
>Tsk, Richard ... coming from a country that has one of the world's lowest
>average IQs ... shame on you.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |Yamaha YZF-R1
>desmond @ zeouane.org |'Ze Ouane!'
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>7.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:18:03 +0000
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><zcDX9.41242$536.2...@news2.telusplanet.net>
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Richard J
> le Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:00:29 -0600, dans l'article <3E2F228D...@hotmail.com>, Richard J <ric...@hotmail.com> a dit ...
>
>
>>>
>
>>>Anyone who considers the Arabs to be 'theiving [sic], untrustworthy cunt's
>>>[sic]', and the Germans to be 'thick as fuck', is certainly racist.
>>
>
>>Even if for a good many of them it happens to be true?
>
>
> average IQs ... shame on you.
>
Well Hell, Desmond. What can you expect, for the most part we evolved
from the British with some help from Scotland and Ireland.
At that, we are still a few points higher than eastern Canadians who owe
some of their roots to the French.
Teflon
A Planet Visitor
"Fred" <no-...@nowhere.nohow> wrote in message news:zcDX9.41242$536.2...@news2.telusplanet.net...
No... just following your idiot advice. But are you presuming Gary Graham
was 'innocent'? Don't make me laugh. See --
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/US/graham648.htm
A truly frightening picture.
PV
> F
A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message news:vb1n0b....@lievre.voute.net...
> le Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:31:27 GMT, dans l'article <zcDX9.41242$536.2...@news2.telusplanet.net>, Fred
<no-...@nowhere.nohow> a dit ...
>
> { snip }
>
>
> [sic]', and the Germans to be 'thick as fuck', is certainly racist.
>
Gentle reader --
Consider his past racist diatribes directed toward Blacks, to determine
who speaks as a racist. His EXACT words --
1) His words in describing the words of someone intent on robbery --
"Gimmie da money, honkey mothafucka, oh ah toast yo ass !!"
2) And in another post, almost the same -- "'Gimme da dough,
mothafucka o ah toast yo ass !!'" Somehow it always ends up to be a Black
In his descriptions of a 'typical' robber.
3) Calling others -- "smelly 'Jigaboo' Ausländer."
4) Posting to me -- "I even 'tweaked' your nose a few days back, by using the
word 'jigaboo'" Presuming he insults ME, rather than an entire race.
5) And again to me -- "same bestial beating administered to LDB's now almost
'jigaboo' buttocks"
6) And again to me -- "Paris is an oasis of safety, be you jigaboo (ho, ho, ho ...) or not."
7)And again to me -- ":Say, LDB ... how come your "ass" [sic] is so
jigaboo these days ?' ... "
8) And to Mr. D. -- "France (the Greatest Country on the Face of the Earth,
BTW) did not 'lose' the match against those jigaboo (*snigger*) upstarts, QZD."
9) And most recently for everyone's ear --- "I cream in my pants when they execute
a dumbfuck nigga fry black fucker,"
10) And another -- Purposely turning his infamous no-archive off to pointedly
demonstrate he is an announced racist when he turned on that archive to say "FW
seems to have a masochist streak that leads him to present his 'jigaboo'
(*chuckle*) buttocks to the assembled throng on AADP and _beg_ to be spanked."
11) And even to Germans -- "it was German beer ... now, if only I could get the
smell of sausage out of the bloody bottles"
12) Also -- "Indeed, perhaps if the floods that are presently threatening Germany,
had been controlled before they swept across into Europe, from the Czech
Republic and Poland, then this fair continent would have been saved the
same fate as the smelly 'auslanders'."
13) Then, there are his recent remarks that making favorable comments about
the past civil rights efforts of Mamie Till Mobley, as her death was reported, and
recognizing the contributions of MLK on the day we celebrate his life, here in this
newsgroup are racist comments posted by racists. See
url:http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20030113200243.01707.00001214%40mb-cu.aol.com&oe=UTF-8
and
url:http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20030120212929.19751.00000260%40mb-cu.aol.com&oe=UTF-8
And this does not even 'scratch the surface' of the racist, bigoted and hateful
posts he has provided in respect to Jews, Arabs and Americans. And ALL
are EXACT quotes of his words.
So, yes, gentle reader. desi has correctly observed that his comments have
branded him a racist.
PV
> --
> Ayatollah desi |Superlunary and Most Exalted
> |Spiritual Leader of the Universal
> |Right to Life Church. (umm... get
> |away from me -- you filthy black
> |starving child in Africa) 'My church'
> |isn't for you.
> http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
Am I obsessed with fighting 'evil'? Damn... I'm 'Superman' when
it comes to fighting desi's 'forces of evil.' References to a post which
insightfully pronounced of desi --
"'Cancerous' is almost a compliment when one views most of
desi's comments -- other forms spring more easily to mind --
it is a parasitic diarrhea of the brain... it is crazy chick disease
transferred to our thinking process -- it is a swarm of latrine flies
settling on our ability to process information --- it is maggots
feasting on the bodies of numberless victims of murder. It is
madness. utter madness. It is Desmond Coughlan."
Every evil, vile thought that has ever swept across this group from
desi's pen, as Genghis Kahn (or Attila the Hun, if you prefer) swept
his broad scythe of rape, death and destruction, in long, broad,
excruciating strokes across Europe, stand as stark images of his
perverse character. And sad to say...we stand witness to that depravity.
A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message news:br8n0b....@lievre.voute.net...
> le Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:00:29 -0600, dans l'article <3E2F228D...@hotmail.com>, Richard J <ric...@hotmail.com> a
dit ...
>
>
> >> Anyone who considers the Arabs to be 'theiving [sic], untrustworthy cunt's
> >> [sic]', and the Germans to be 'thick as fuck', is certainly racist.
>
> > Even if for a good many of them it happens to be true?
>
> average IQs ... shame on you.
>
'average' IQ of the citizens of France dipped when desi obtained his
citizenship. It must have taken a tumble. A proud nation, brought
to its 'intellectual' knees by accepting a foreigner as one of them.
PV
> --
> Ayatollah desi |Superlunary and Most Exalted
> |Spiritual Leader of the Universal
> |Right to Life Church. (umm... get
> |away from me -- you filthy black
> |starving child in Africa) 'My church'
> |isn't for you.
> http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
Am I obsessed with fighting 'evil'? Damn... I'm 'Superman' when
it comes to fighting desi's 'forces of evil.' References to a post which
insightfully pronounced of desi --
"'Cancerous' is almost a compliment when one views most of
desi's comments -- other forms spring more easily to mind --
it is a parasitic diarrhea of the brain... it is crazy chick disease
transferred to our thinking process -- it is a swarm of latrine flies
settling on our ability to process information --- it is maggots
feasting on the bodies of numberless victims of murder. It is
madness. utter madness. It is Desmond Coughlan."
Every evil, vile thought that has ever swept across this group from
desi's pen, as Genghis Kahn (or Attila the Hun, if you prefer) swept
his broad scythe of rape, death and destruction, in long, broad,
excruciating strokes across Europe, stand as stark images of his
perverse character. And we stand witness to that depravity.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:38:33 +0000
>
>le Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:13:51 GMT, dans l'article
><3z%X9.120511$Sa3.3...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, A Planet Visitor
><abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a dit ...
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> Tsk, Richard ... coming from a country that has one of the world's lowest
>>> average IQs ... shame on you.
>
>> The bigot rears 'its' ugly head again.
>
>No need to announce your arrival, FuckWit ...
>
>{ snip remainder of infantile, obsessive, semi-literate gobshite }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |Yamaha YZF-R1
>desmond @ zeouane.org |'Ze Ouane!'
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:38:33 +0000
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>
>
Poor Desi, yet another drunken lie! The Dr. Dolly Coughlan archive exists
because Desmond Coughlan lacks conviction in his words. He won't allow his
posts to be archived in Google. Please feel free to use it to your advantage.
Fred
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
>
...
> > So you are a racist then?
>
>
> No... just following your idiot advice. But are you presuming Gary
Graham
> was 'innocent'? Don't make me laugh. See --
> http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/US/graham648.htm
> A truly frightening picture.
Yes, I believe Graham was innocent of the crime Texas killed him for
(not that he wasn't despicable). I also believe T. Cullen Davis was
as guilty as sin, both times. This simply proves what I believe, that
many citizens of the USA are happy to see the DP applied to
minorities, but not to wealthy whites. That is why the system is as
it is, with so many participants being elected, not appointed. This
lets the system be corrupted by political considerations.
His final statement is correct:
"Gary Lee Graham Last Statement
I would like to say that I did not kill Bobby Lambert. That I'm an
innocent black man that is being murdered. This is a lynching that is
happening in America tonight. There's overwhelming and compelling
evidence of my defense that has never been heard in any court of
America. What is happening here is an outrage for any civilized
country to anybody anywhere to look at what's happening here is
wrong......"
F
A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message news:9u1q0b....@lievre.voute.net...
> le Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:13:51 GMT, dans l'article <3z%X9.120511$Sa3.3...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, A Planet Visitor
<abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a dit ...
>
> { snip }
>
> >> average IQs ... shame on you.
>
> > The bigot rears 'its' ugly head again.
>
>
know 'who' the bigot is. It was you, in your expression in respect
to the entire body of citizens of America. (go ahead... attach
that illiterate (sic) to it).
> { snip remainder of infantile, obsessive, semi-literate gobshite }
>
You mean this part? "One wonders how deeply the 'average' IQ
of the citizens of France dipped when desi obtained his
citizenship. It must have taken a tumble. A proud nation, brought
to its 'intellectual' knees by accepting a foreigner as one of them."
Marianne must have wept at your acceptance in France.
A Planet Visitor
"Fred" <no-...@nowhere.nohow> wrote in message news:rm2Y9.1156$c41....@news2.telusplanet.net...
You nincompoop. Read the URL I provided.
PV
> F
>
>
>
Fred
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
I read it. Unlike you, I understood it, even though it is a horribly
biased version of the facts. Bernadine Skillern's identification has
all the classic earmarks of wrong identification. It is reminiscent
of a 1984 case profiled on A&E where a woman who was raped, and who
saw her attacker absolutely clearly, positively identified Ronald
Junior Cotton in a photo line up, a real line up, and in court.
During a retrial of this man she was asked to identify another man
whose name was Bobby Poole as her actual rapist. She replied that she
had never seen him and had no idea who he was. Unfortunately, she was
wrong, as DNA once again proved. Poole was her attacker.
The woman, Jennifer Johnson, herself tried to have Gary Graham freed.
You have, once more, allowed your prejudices to overcome even the
modicum of common sense you have.
F
A Planet Visitor
"Fred" <no-...@nowhere.nohow> wrote in message news:ycMY9.18828$c41.6...@news2.telusplanet.net...
LOL... TRANSLATION -- "I didn't agree with it, so I'll declare it to
be 'biased'"
What a joke you truly are, Fred.
<rest clipped>
.
>
> You have, once more, allowed your prejudices to overcome even the
> modicum of common sense you have.
Actually, your prejudice is EXACTLY what you have tried to use. A
prejudice against the Justice System, as providing an 'excuse' for
murder. As I've said before, I do not believe the circumstances of
Graham's murder elevated the particular crime to demanding the DP,
since a PROVEN 'prior intent' was not shown to me from what I have
read of the case. Although his past behavior had certainly much to
do in the way of 'aggravating circumstances,' for the jury, I can imagine.
But don't EVER presume he was 'innocent.' It holds little meaning in the
cause of abolition. Speak rather, to the crime ITSELF, not justifying
the DP. Do we execute EVERY murderer who commits a murder in
the course of a robbery, where there is no clear intent to murder
beforehand? I believe we should not.
PV
>
> F
>
>
>
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:02:18 +0000
>
>le Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:16:31 GMT, dans l'article
><PYYX9.119805$Sa3.3...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, A Planet Visitor
><abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a dit ...
>
>>> > So you are a racist then?
>
>>> Anyone who considers the Arabs to be 'theiving [sic], untrustworthy cunt's
>>> [sic]', and the Germans to be 'thick as fuck', is certainly racist.
>
>> Jesus... desi appears to FINALLY be 'looking in the mirror.'
>
>Your words, FW ... your words (or 'word's' (sic), if you prefer).
>
>> Gentle reader --
>> Consider his past racist diatribes directed toward Blacks, to determine
>> who speaks as a racist. His EXACT words --
>
>How amusing that FuckWit should start by stating, 'His EXACT [sic] words',
>and then immediately follow with ...
>
>> 1) His words in describing the words of someone intent on robbery --
>> "Gimmie da money, honkey mothafucka, oh ah toast yo ass !!"
>
>How strange also, that FW doesn't quote the line that followed that little
>piece of creative fiction ...
>
> '<fx: waits calmly to witness LDB going ballistic ...>' [1]
>
>{ snip }
>
>> Somehow it always ends up to be a Black In his descriptions of a
>> 'typical' robber.
>
>'always' can hardly be applied to two instances, you fuckwit, FuckWit.
>
>{ snip }
>
>> So, yes, gentle reader. desi has correctly observed that his comments have
>> branded him a racist.
>
>Once again, FW demonstrates why he is abolitionism's greatest weapon.
>
>
>[1] Message-Id: <slrnapk216.1g66....@lievre.voute.net>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |Yamaha YZF-R1
>desmond @ zeouane.org |'Ze Ouane!'
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:02:18 +0000
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A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message news:arfgg-...@lievre.voute.net...
> le Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:16:31 GMT, dans l'article <PYYX9.119805$Sa3.3...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, A Planet Visitor
<abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a dit ...
>
>
> >> Anyone who considers the Arabs to be 'theiving [sic], untrustworthy cunt's
> >> [sic]', and the Germans to be 'thick as fuck', is certainly racist.
>
> > Jesus... desi appears to FINALLY be 'looking in the mirror.'
>
>
than 'unreasonable' in respect to any Arab, without stating I felt the Jews
were equally or more 'unreasonable.'... having called the Palestinians
that immediately after watching them dance hysterically in the street after
9-11. And claiming that the Germans are not famous for 'clever' remarks,
after a cabinet member of the German government, referred to Bush as
resembling 'Hitler.' While a German poster here, has suggested that the
U.S. place a 'star' (think of that --- a German suggesting a 'star'), on the
U.S. 'banner' to indicated Israel is the 53rd (sic) U.S. State. Yes, I stand
by that claim... the Germans are not famous for 'clever' remarks. I have
a shit-pot full of remarks from Germans that don't appear clever to me.
But I've also said on a great number of occasions that they are intelligent,
perhaps the most intelligent race among our species. Of course, you've
said "it was German beer ... now, if only I could get the smell of sausage
out of the bloody bottles"
But words such as 'fuck' and 'cunt,' that you try to quote from me, I
actually leave to illiterates such as you. YOU NEED THEM. Without
them you are as feeble as a fetus.
Further, YOUR bigotry is legendary here... these are only ten of
the demonstrations of bigotry you've expressed against Americans
in general (there are so many more) -
1) "...Americans don't even know how to spell the word, let alone comprehend
the concept"
2) "one can hardly be surprised if all Americans are as stupid as you."
3) "One day you stupid Americans will realize that I have a superiour
education."
4) "Unfortunately, this sort of thinking is at present way beyond the
reasoning power of 99 % of Americans."
5) "Only to idiotic redneck Americans..."
6) "either Americans are stupid, or sadistic bastards."
7) "'spag /spAIG/ adj. & n. sl. "spastic", "stupid person", used to refer to
Americans..."
8) "typical dumbfuck American's ignorance"
9) "idiotic buffoons that are Americans,"
10) "I shall have no choice but to remind the group of the American for 'foreplay'.
A dig in the ribs, and the words, 'You ready ?'"
> > Gentle reader --
> > Consider his past racist diatribes directed toward Blacks, to determine
> > who speaks as a racist. His EXACT words --
>
> How amusing that FuckWit should start by stating, 'His EXACT [sic] words',
> and then immediately follow with ...
>
> > 1) His words in describing the words of someone intent on robbery --
> > "Gimmie da money, honkey mothafucka, oh ah toast yo ass !!"
>
> How strange also, that FW doesn't quote the line that followed that little
> piece of creative fiction ...
>
The words encased in quotes, are of course, your EXACT words, see
url:http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20021001212904.09987.00002409%40mb-fp.aol.com&oe=UTF-8
> '<fx: waits calmly to witness LDB going ballistic ...>' [1]
>
Why would you believe that, desi? I simply report your words. I
leave the 'going ballistic' to you, each time I recognize some silly
remark you make. It's a tough job... but SOMEONE has to do it.
> { snip }
>
> > Somehow it always ends up to be a Black In his descriptions of a
> > 'typical' robber.
>
> 'always' can hardly be applied to two instances, you fuckwit, FuckWit.
LOL.. Like the girl said -- 'sucked just one cock, and damned if they didn't
start calling me a cocksucker.' I ain't seen you call a robber anything BUT
black. Clearly you did it AGAIN, in
url:http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=slrn8oeie1.66i.desmond%40lievre.voute.net&oe=UTF-8
With almost the exact same words of "'Gimme da dough, mothafucka o
ah toast yo ass !!'
>
> { snip }
>
> > So, yes, gentle reader. desi has correctly observed that his comments have
> > branded him a racist.
>
> Once again, FW demonstrates why he is abolitionism's greatest weapon.
>
Why would you say that, oh great racist swine?
>
> [1] Message-Id: <slrnapk216.1g66....@lievre.voute.net>
Whatever that is, means shit here, desi. And everyone knows it
probably contains just more of your whining.
PV
> --
>
Ayatollah desi |Superlunary and Most Exalted
> |Spiritual Leader of the Universal
> |Right to Life Church. (umm... get
> |away from me -- you filthy black
> |starving child in Africa) 'My church'
> |isn't for you.
> http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
Am I obsessed with fighting 'evil'? Damn... I'm 'Superman' when
it comes to fighting desi's 'forces of evil.' References to a post which
insightfully pronounced of desi --
"'Cancerous' is almost a compliment when one views most of
desi's comments -- other forms spring more easily to mind --
it is a parasitic diarrhea of the brain... it is crazy chick disease
transferred to our thinking process -- it is a swarm of latrine flies
settling on our ability to process information --- it is maggots
feasting on the bodies of numberless victims of murder. It is
madness. utter madness. It is Desmond Coughlan."
Every evil, vile thought that has ever swept across this group from
desi's pen, as Genghis Kahn (or Attila the Hun, if you prefer) swept
his broad scythe of rape, death and destruction, in long, broad,
excruciating strokes across Europe, stand as stark images of his
perverse character. And we stand witness to that depravity.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
<pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:52:23 +0000
>
>le Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:01:14 GMT, dans l'article
><K0pZ9.813$Ev1....@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, A Planet Visitor
><abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a dit ...
>
>{ snip rather feeble (and hardly credible) claim of 'victory' }
>
>> But words such as 'fuck' and 'cunt,' that you try to quote from me, I
>> actually leave to illiterates such as you. YOU NEED THEM. Without
>> them you are as feeble as a fetus.
>
>LMAO ... regrettably, FuckWit, 'goggle' (sic) tells a different story.
>
>
>url:http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=fr&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&scoring=d&q=c
unt+group%3Aalt.activism.death-penalty+author%3APlanet
>
>411 occasions on which you've used the word 'cunt'. Now, aren't you a
>'fowl-mouthed' (sic) little idiot ... moron ... retard ... imbecile ...
>cretin .. the list goes on.
>
>{ snip remainder of pathetic cries to be 'listened to' }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |Yamaha YZF-R1
>desmond @ zeouane.org |'Ze Ouane!'
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>http://www.zeouane.org/peinedemort/obsessive_litany.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Another Chicago Sun-Times Report
>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:52:23 +0000
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>
>
Poor Desi, yet another drunken lie! The Dr. Dolly Coughlan archive exists
because Desmond Coughlan lacks conviction in his words. He won't allow his
posts to be archived in Google. Please feel free to use it to your advantage.
A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message news:nilig-...@lievre.voute.net...
> le Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:01:14 GMT, dans l'article <K0pZ9.813$Ev1....@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, A Planet Visitor
<abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a dit ...
>
> { snip rather feeble (and hardly credible) claim of 'victory' }
>
> > actually leave to illiterates such as you. YOU NEED THEM. Without
> > them you are as feeble as a fetus.
>
>
>
url:http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=fr&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&scoring=d&q=cunt+group%3Aalt.activism.death-penalty+author%3
APlanet
>
> 411 occasions on which you've used the word 'cunt'. Now, aren't you a
> 'fowl-mouthed' (sic) little idiot ... moron ... retard ... imbecile ...
> cretin .. the list goes on.
>
that was your 'sign-off'? Where you admitted you were #1?
While practically every one of those references you mention are because
I left in the insults directed at me within the post, and responded with my
usual, calm, refined, dignified comment to mention that you were a
'potty mouth.' And a rather hysterical, whiny 'potty mouth' at that.
Such as I've done here here... 'potty mouth.' See -
url:http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=potty%20mouth&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=alt.activism.death-pena
lty&as_uauthors=planet&lr=&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=28&as_maxm=1&as_maxy=2003&as_scoring=d&hl
=en
My use of profanity is only when it is called for... to emphasize
a 'really down on' point, or to mimic the poster having insulted me.
I do have to say though, that in your use of various profanity, you demonstrate
that you don't have much class... but as with dirtbag, I am impressed
by how much you manage to blow it out of proportion.
> { snip remainder of pathetic cries to be 'listened to' }
>
ho ho ho... Why do I get the feeling you're 'listening'? I 'listen' to
you... My day would not be complete without coffee in the morning,
and some knee-slapping laughter in the afternoon as I read your
posts.
A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message news:1q7lg-...@lievre.voute.net...
> le Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:14:06 GMT, dans l'article <iyIZ9.9321$mA2.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, A Planet Visitor
<abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a dit ...
>
> >> > But words such as 'fuck' and 'cunt,' that you try to quote from me, I
> >> > actually leave to illiterates such as you. YOU NEED THEM. Without
> >> > them you are as feeble as a fetus.
>
> >> LMAO ... regrettably, FuckWit, 'goggle' (sic) tells a different story.
> >>
> >
url:http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=fr&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&scoring=d&q=cunt+group%3Aalt.activism.death-penalty+author%3
> > APlanet
> >>
> >> 411 occasions on which you've used the word 'cunt'. Now, aren't you a
> >> 'fowl-mouthed' (sic) little idiot ... moron ... retard ... imbecile ...
> >> cretin .. the list goes on.
>
> > Umm.... desi... your 'record' stands at 4,240 + . Don't you remember
> > that was your 'sign-off'? Where you admitted you were #1?
>
> whether you count four thousand incidences of 'cunt' in my posts, or four
> million. Second, is that the use of the word 'CUNT' in my .signature, is
> not the same as _calling someone else_ a cunt. As you do.
>
Nah, sport... it only makes you a 'potty-mouth.' Suck it up.
> > While practically every one of those references you mention are because
> > I left in the insults directed at me within the post,
>
> Ho, ho, ho. The fuckwit who has made a career out of extracting 'quotes'
> (sic) from others' posts where they use offensive words to quote others ...
> and then claiming that those posters use those same words as their _own_
> words ... your puerile whingeing falls on deaf ears now, FuckWit.
>
Talk is cheap... desi proves it.
> { snip }
>
> >> { snip remainder of pathetic cries to be 'listened to' }
>
> > ho ho ho... Why do I get the feeling you're 'listening'?
>
> Ego.
Ergo...I've always said you were ego-driven. Now you confirm that
your ego forces you to listen.
> > I 'listen' to you... My day would not be complete without coffee in the
> > morning, and some knee-slapping laughter in the afternoon as I read your
> > posts.
>
> No one believes for a second that you laugh, FuckWit. They all see that
> I'm getting to you ... and you're getting somewhat hysterical in your
> denials. Percentages, FuckWit ... percentages. 21% != 94%. Ho, ho, ho.
>
Umm... desi... YOU'RE THE ONE DENYING. You deny that you
'mean' what you say, in respect to exhorting (look it up... you illiterate)
abolitionists to torture and kill retentionists, since God gave them to the
abolitionist, as He (She) gave the sparrow to the domestic cat. See --
http://www.things.org/~muffy/pages/kitties/death.html
That WAS your clear meaning.
The polls are just in, desi... And you're climbing steadily.
94% of all respondents voted for "get rid of him."
loser...loser...loser..
spank...spank...spank...
PV
> --
>