A Hanging - George Orwell
Cerberus
A Hanging (August, 1931)
It was in Burma, a sodden morning of the rains. A sickly light, like yellow
tinfoil, was slanting over the high walls into the jail yard. We were
waiting outside the condemned cells, a row of sheds fronted with double
bars, like small animal cages. Each cell measured about ten feet by ten and
was quite bare within except for a plank bed and a pot of drinking water. In
some of them brown silent men were squatting at the inner bars, with their
blankets draped round them. These were the condemned men, due to be hanged
within the next week or two.
One prisoner had been brought out of his cell. He was a Hindu, a puny wisp
of a man, with a shaven head and vague liquid eyes. He had a thick,
sprouting moustache, absurdly too big for his body, rather like the
moustache of a comic man on the films. Six tall Indian warders were guarding
him and getting him ready for the gallows. Two of them stood by with rifles
and fixed bayonets, while the others handcuffed him, passed a chain through
his handcuffs and fixed it to their belts, and lashed his arms tight to his
sides. They crowded very close about him, with their hands always on him in
a careful, caressing grip, as though all the while feeling him to make sure
he was there. It was like men handling a fish which is still alive and may
jump back into the water. But he stood quite unresisting, yielding his arms
limply to the ropes, as though he hardly noticed what was happening.
Eight o'clock struck and a bugle call, desolately thin in the wet air,
floated from the distant barracks. The superintendent of the jail, who was
standing apart from the rest of us, moodily prodding the gravel with his
stick, raised his head at the sound. He was an army doctor, with a grey
toothbrush moustache and a gruff voice. 'For God's sake hurry up, Francis,'
he said irritably. 'The man ought to have been dead by this time. Aren't you
ready yet?'
Francis, the head jailer, a fat Dravidian in a white drill suit and gold
spectacles, waved his black hand. 'Yes sir, yes sir,' he bubbled. 'All iss
satisfactorily prepared. The hangman iss waiting. We shall proceed.'
'Well, quick march, then. The prisoners can't get their breakfast till this
job's over.'
We set out for the gallows. Two warders marched on either side of the
prisoner, with their rifles at the slope; two others marched close against
him, gripping him by arm and shoulder, as though at once pushing and
supporting him. The rest of us, magistrates and the like, followed behind.
Suddenly, when we had gone ten yards, the procession stopped short without
any order or warning. A dreadful thing had happened - a dog, come goodness
knows whence, had appeared in the yard. It came bounding among us with a
loud volley of barks, and leapt round us wagging its whole body, wild with
glee at finding so many human beings together. It was a large woolly dog,
half Airedale, half pariah. For a moment it pranced round us, and then,
before anyone could stop it, it had made a dash for the prisoner, and
jumping up tried to lick his face. Everyone stood aghast, too taken aback
even to grab at the dog.
'Who let that bloody brute in here?' said the superintendent angrily. 'Catch
it, someone!'
A warder, detached from the escort, charged clumsily after the dog, but it
danced and gambolled just out of his reach, taking everything as part of the
game. A young Eurasian jailer picked up a handful of gravel and tried to
stone the dog away, but it dodged the stones and came after us again. Its
yaps echoed from the jail wails. The prisoner, in the grasp of the two
warders, looked on incuriously, as though this was another formality of the
hanging. It was several minutes before someone managed to catch the dog.
Then we put my handkerchief through its collar and moved off once more, with
the dog still straining and whimpering.
It was about forty yards to the gallows. I watched the bare brown back of
the prisoner marching in front of me. He walked clumsily with his bound
arms, but quite steadily, with that bobbing gait of the Indian who never
straightens his knees. At each step his muscles slid neatly into place, the
lock of hair on his scalp danced up and down, his feet printed themselves on
the wet gravel. And once, in spite of the men who gripped him by each
shoulder, he stepped slightly aside to avoid a puddle on the path.
It is curious, but till that moment I had never realized what it means to
destroy a healthy, conscious man. When I saw the prisoner step aside to
avoid the puddle, I saw the mystery, the unspeakable wrongness, of cutting a
life short when it is in full tide. This man was not dying, he was alive
just as we were alive. All the organs of his body were working - bowels
digesting food, skin renewing itself, nails growing, tissues forming - all
toiling away in solemn foolery. His nails would still be growing when he
stood on the drop, when he was falling through the air with a tenth of a
second to live. His eyes saw the yellow gravel and the grey walls, and his
brain still remembered, foresaw, reasoned - reasoned even about puddles. He
and we were a party of men walking together, seeing, hearing, feeling,
understanding the same world; and in two minutes, with a sudden snap, one of
us would be gone - one mind less, one world less.
The gallows stood in a small yard, separate from the main grounds of the
prison, and overgrown with tall prickly weeds. It was a brick erection like
three sides of a shed, with planking on top, and above that two beams and a
crossbar with the rope dangling. The hangman, a grey-haired convict in the
white uniform of the prison, was waiting beside his machine. He greeted us
with a servile crouch as we entered. At a word from Francis the two warders,
gripping the prisoner more closely than ever, half led, half pushed him to
the gallows and helped him clumsily up the ladder. Then the hangman climbed
up and fixed the rope round the prisoner's neck.
We stood waiting, five yards away. The warders had formed in a rough circle
round the gallows. And then, when the noose was fixed, the prisoner began
crying out on his god. It was a high, reiterated cry of 'Ram! Ram! Ram! Ram!
', not urgent and fearful like a prayer or a cry for help, but steady,
rhythmical, almost like the tolling of a bell. The dog answered the sound
with a whine. The hangman, still standing on the gallows, produced a small
cotton bag like a flour bag and drew it down over the prisoner's face. But
the sound, muffled by the cloth, still persisted, over and over again: 'Ram!
Ram! Ram! Ram! Ram!'
The hangman climbed down and stood ready, holding the lever. Minutes seemed
to pass. The steady, muffled crying from the prisoner went on and on, 'Ram!
Ram! Ram!' never faltering for an instant. The superintendent, his head on
his chest, was slowly poking the ground with his stick; perhaps he was
counting the cries, allowing the prisoner a fixed number - fifty, perhaps,
or a hundred. Everyone had changed colour. The Indians had gone grey like
bad coffee, and one or two of the bayonets were wavering. We looked at the
lashed, hooded man on the drop, and listened to his cries - each cry another
second of life; the same thought was in all our minds: oh, kill him quickly,
get it over, stop that abominable noise!
Suddenly the superintendent made up his mind. Throwing up his head he made a
swift motion with his stick. 'Chalo!' he shouted almost fiercely.
There was a clanking noise, and then dead silence. The prisoner had
vanished, and the rope was twisting on itself. I let go of the dog, and it
galloped immediately to the back of the gallows; but when it got there it
stopped short, barked, and then retreated into a corner of the yard, where
it stood among the weeds, looking timorously out at us. We went round the
gallows to inspect the prisoner's body. He was dangling with his toes
pointed straight downwards, very slowly revolving, as dead as a stone.
The superintendent reached out with his stick and poked the bare body; it
oscillated, slightly. 'He's all right,' said the superintendent. He backed
out from under the gallows, and blew out a deep breath. The moody look had
gone out of his face quite suddenly. He glanced at his wrist-watch. 'Eight
minutes past eight. Well, that's all for this morning, thank God.'
The warders unfixed bayonets and marched away. The dog, sobered and
conscious of having misbehaved itself, slipped after them. We walked out of
the gallows yard, past the condemned cells with their waiting prisoners,
into the big central yard of the prison. The convicts, under the command of
warders armed with lathis, were already receiving their breakfast. They
squatted in long rows, each man holding a tin pannikin, while two warders
with buckets marched round ladling out rice; it seemed quite a homely, jolly
scene, after the hanging. An enormous relief had come upon us now that the
job was done. One felt an impulse to sing, to break into a run, to snigger.
All at once everyone began chattering gaily.
The Eurasian boy walking beside me nodded towards the way we had come, with
a knowing smile: 'Do you know, sir, our friend (he meant the dead man), when
he heard his appeal had been dismissed, he pissed on the floor of his cell.
From fright. - Kindly take one of my cigarettes, sir. Do you not admire my
new silver case, sir? From the boxwallah, two rupees eight annas. Classy
European style.'
Several people laughed - at what, nobody seemed certain.
Francis was walking by the superintendent, talking garrulously. 'Well, sir,
all hass passed off with the utmost satisfactoriness. It wass all finished -
flick! like that. It iss not always so - oah, no! I have known cases where
the doctor wass obliged to go beneath the gallows and pull the prisoner's
legs to ensure decease. Most disagreeable!'
'Wriggling about, eh? That's bad,' said the superintendent.
'Ach, sir, it iss worse when they become refractory! One man, I recall,
clung to the bars of hiss cage when we went to take him out. You will
scarcely credit, sir, that it took six warders to dislodge him, three
pulling at each leg. We reasoned with him. "My dear fellow," we said, "think
of all the pain and trouble you are causing to us!" But no, he would not
listen! Ach, he wass very troublesome!'
I found that I was laughing quite loudly. Everyone was laughing. Even the
superintendent grinned in a tolerant way. 'You'd better all come out and
have a drink,' he said quite genially. 'I've got a bottle of whisky in the
car. We could do with it.'
We went through the big double gates of the prison, into the road. 'Pulling
at his legs!' exclaimed a Burmese magistrate suddenly, and burst into a loud
chuckling. We all began laughing again. At that moment Francis's anecdote
seemed extraordinarily funny. We all had a drink together, native and
European alike, quite amicably. The dead man was a hundred yards away.
WooF w00f WooF
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John Rennie
"Cerberus" <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote in message
news:3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com...
> Some of the terminology reminds me of someone we know.
>
>
> A Hanging (August, 1931)
snip
One of the finest essays written on the subject of capital punishment
and one that greatly influenced myself. I don't, however, understand your
comment about the terminology. Elucidate please.
Cerberus
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Lpo69.1639$0U4....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
There is a poster on this group that reminds me of some of the natives that
Orwell refers to in this essay. The speech mannerisms particularly. That
indefinable quirk that identifies the 'English as a second language
speaker'
A Planet Visitor
"Cerberus" <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote in message news:3d5a1...@goliath.newsgroups.com...
>
> "John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:Lpo69.1639$0U4....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> >
> > "Cerberus" <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote in message
> > news:3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com...
> > > Some of the terminology reminds me of someone we know.
> > >
> > >
> > > A Hanging (August, 1931)
> >
> > snip
> >
> > One of the finest essays written on the subject of capital punishment
> > and one that greatly influenced myself. I don't, however, understand your
> > comment about the terminology. Elucidate please.
>
> There is a poster on this group that reminds me of some of the natives that
> Orwell refers to in this essay. The speech mannerisms particularly. That
> indefinable quirk that identifies the 'English as a second language
> speaker'
>
now you go and spoil it for me. :-)
PV
> WooF w00f WooF
>
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:Lpo69.1639$0U4....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
>
execution, since it seems to revolve mostly about an emotional
discussion of the fate of the (presumed) murderer, rather than
the act which placed him in that most horrible of predicaments.
Thus, having nothing to do with the DP in present day U.S.
context. If one is looking for something that 'emotionally
influences' a person to look at hanging through another's eyes,
I would better suggest 'The Ballad of Reading Gaol,' by Oscar
Wilde, which I mentioned here a long time ago. Part of it
is --
.....................................
I walked, with other souls in pain,
Within another ring,
And was wondering if the man had done
A great or little thing,
When a voice behind me whispered low,
"That fellow's got to swing."
Dear Christ! the very prison walls
Suddenly seemed to reel,
And the sky above my head became
Like a casque of scorching steel;
And, though I was a soul in pain,
My pain I could not feel.
I only knew what hunted thought
Quickened his step, and why
He looked upon the garish day
With such a wistful eye;
The man had killed the thing he loved
And so he had to die.
Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!
Some kill their love when they are young,
And some when they are old;
Some strangle with the hands of Lust,
Some with the hands of Gold:
The kindest use a knife, because
The dead so soon grow cold.
Some love too little, some too long,
Some sell, and others buy;
Some do the deed with many tears,
And some without a sigh:
For each man kills the thing he loves,
Yet each man does not die.
He does not die a death of shame
On a day of dark disgrace,
Nor have a noose about his neck,
Nor a cloth upon his face,
Nor drop feet foremost through the floor
Into an empty place
He does not sit with silent men
Who watch him night and day;
Who watch him when he tries to weep,
And when he tries to pray;
Who watch him lest himself should rob
The prison of its prey.
He does not wake at dawn to see
Dread figures throng his room,
The shivering Chaplain robed in white,
The Sheriff stern with gloom,
And the Governor all in shiny black,
With the yellow face of Doom.
He does not rise in piteous haste
To put on convict-clothes,
While some coarse-mouthed Doctor gloats, and notes
Each new and nerve-twitched pose,
Fingering a watch whose little ticks
Are like horrible hammer- blows.
He does not know that sickening thirst
That sands one's throat, before
The hangman with his gardener's gloves
Slips through the padded door,
And binds one with three leathern thongs,
That the throat may thirst no more.
....................
A poem much longer in total, that can be found at
http://authorsdirectory.com/c/rgaol10.htm
among many other places.
This poem could rightfully be called an anti-paean to the
DP. There is no doubt that the DP is an emotional issue,
and hard to place in a pragmatic context. But you have
always claimed your opposition was not emotional, but
pragmatic. Thus, I find it hard to reconcile an emotional
description of a hanging affecting a pragmatic decision.
One can most certainly counter any emotional description
of an execution with that of Theodore Frank's act for
example.
PV
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
news:mNu69.181585$s8.34...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Lpo69.1639$0U4....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> >
> > "Cerberus" <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote in message
> > news:3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com...
> > > Some of the terminology reminds me of someone we know.
> > >
> > >
> > > A Hanging (August, 1931)
> >
> > snip
> >
> > One of the finest essays written on the subject of capital punishment
> > and one that greatly influenced myself. I don't, however, understand
your
> > comment about the terminology. Elucidate please.
> >
> And perhaps mention what the man did to deserve the
> execution, since it seems to revolve mostly about an emotional
> discussion of the fate of the (presumed) murderer, rather than
> the act which placed him in that most horrible of predicaments.
> Thus, having nothing to do with the DP in present day U.S.
> context. If one is looking for something that 'emotionally
> influences' a person to look at hanging through another's eyes,
> I would better suggest 'The Ballad of Reading Gaol,' by Oscar
> Wilde, which I mentioned here a long time ago. Part of it
> is --
> .....................................
> I walked, with other souls in pain,
> Within another ring,
>
snip
As I haven't had a classical education I first read this powm
when I was about 12.
> A poem much longer in total, that can be found at
> http://authorsdirectory.com/c/rgaol10.htm
> among many other places.
>
> This poem could rightfully be called an anti-paean to the
> DP. There is no doubt that the DP is an emotional issue,
> and hard to place in a pragmatic context. But you have
> always claimed your opposition was not emotional, but
> pragmatic. Thus, I find it hard to reconcile an emotional
> description of a hanging affecting a pragmatic decision.
> One can most certainly counter any emotional description
> of an execution with that of Theodore Frank's act for
> example.
>
>
>
And I first read Orwell's essay when I was about 13. Such
work does have a greater emotional impact when one is younger.
BTW when have I ever claimed that my reaction to the DP
was not emotional? I have never used the word - I have been
careful to avoid it although it is not one of my verboten words.
I am not anti feeling PV.
John Rennie
>
snip
>
> And I first read Orwell's essay when I was about 13. Such
> work does have a greater emotional impact when one is younger.
> BTW when have I ever claimed that my reaction to the DP
> was not emotional? I have never used the word - I have been
> careful to avoid it although it is not one of my verboten words.
> I am not anti feeling PV.
>
>
That should read "I am not anti feeling, PV"; I am most certainly
anti feeling PV.
Vlad " I am from THE NETHERLANDS you morons" Drac
<Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote:
>Some of the terminology reminds me of someone we know.
>
Who, who, who?
dirtdog
Yeah yeah, you poof.
w00f
dirtdog
<Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote:
<snipped>
> When I saw the prisoner step aside to
>avoid the puddle, I saw the mystery, the unspeakable wrongness, of cutting a
>life short when it is in full tide. This man was not dying, he was alive
>just as we were alive. All the organs of his body were working - bowels
>digesting food, skin renewing itself, nails growing, tissues forming - all
>toiling away in solemn foolery. His nails would still be growing when he
>stood on the drop, when he was falling through the air with a tenth of a
>second to live. His eyes saw the yellow gravel and the grey walls, and his
>brain still remembered, foresaw, reasoned - reasoned even about puddles. He
>and we were a party of men walking together, seeing, hearing, feeling,
>understanding the same world; and in two minutes, with a sudden snap, one of
>us would be gone - one mind less, one world less.
I'm with old miseryguts.
The essay underlines perfectly just what _is_ wrong with state
orchestrated, ceremonial, premeditated homicide - there is simply
nothing more that can be added.
w00f
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:D0v69.971$XA1....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
nor has EVERYONE read it. I doubt whether dirtbag
knows who Oscar Wilde is, much less is familiar with
the poem. Seeing as how he has admitted his 'education'
requires a 'sic,' and he thought Boswell was an actor in
a daytime soap opera. Nonetheless, I never expected
that you were unfamiliar with the poem.
>
> > A poem much longer in total, that can be found at
> > http://authorsdirectory.com/c/rgaol10.htm
> > among many other places.
> >
> > This poem could rightfully be called an anti-paean to the
> > DP. There is no doubt that the DP is an emotional issue,
> > and hard to place in a pragmatic context. But you have
> > always claimed your opposition was not emotional, but
> > pragmatic. Thus, I find it hard to reconcile an emotional
> > description of a hanging affecting a pragmatic decision.
> > One can most certainly counter any emotional description
> > of an execution with that of Theodore Frank's act for
> > example.
> >
> >
> >
>
> And I first read Orwell's essay when I was about 13. Such
> work does have a greater emotional impact when one is younger.
> BTW when have I ever claimed that my reaction to the DP
> was not emotional? I have never used the word - I have been
> careful to avoid it although it is not one of my verboten words.
> I am not anti feeling PV.
>
in respect to the DP, if you say you do. It's just that I find
pragmatism necessarily divorced from any such emotion. And
you have certainly claimed your view on the DP is totally pragmatic.
Clearly having admitted at times that you recognize SOME 'deserve'
it. My particular view is both pragmatic and emotional. So yours
probably has both of those emotions as well.
PV
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:g3v69.981$XA1....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
I should save this for others of British origin... but those others
(desmond, dirtbag, Peter and Hugh), are so irrational that it would
not penetrate... hopefully you will take it in the sense I present it,
because it's not you specifically, but the inferiority complex I see
behind most of the posting style of those I refer to --
I have the perception that the trend of some of the British here to become
more hurtful in their arguments, and more dogmatic in their position
regarding the DP in another country, has a deeper significance.
Perhaps related to the lesser role they realize that the British now
play on the world stage, and especially in matters of the U.S., where
they seem to feel they have a 'right' to impose THEIR views on the
views of the U.S.
Now, far be it from me to say they can't speak their mind... that is
certainly their right., nor is that the intent of my meaning. I welcome
constructive comments, and meaningful dialog. There is much ground
to cover in any argument vis-a-vis the DP. Ground which can take the form of
an expression of opinion, and presentation of certain facts, and even
arguments relative to the 'ignorance' of the argument of one side or the
other. Even though it has all been said before, in one way or another.
And I have long expressed the close connection I know exists
between the British and Americans. Further, the interchange of ideas
and concepts has been the hallmark of our advance as a species. Yet
I see a 'different brand' of British here, than I have recognized in the past.
Here, it seems to go quite a bit deeper. Generally relating to demanding
transference of their views into the views of the U.S. and a belief that the
U.S. is not capable of forming its own path. If it were a TRUE 'right to life'
issue, I could well see that. But every rational person knows that 'right
to life,' as providing the source for abolition of the DP is a disgusting
sham. No one thinks about providing a 'right to life' to the unborn, or
to the starving masses. Only murderers seem to matter here. And it is
absurd that the English can expect to translate their views and expect
them to represent PRAGMATIC views regarding the U.S., since they are,
to a large extent, unfamiliar with events and experiences in the U.S. I
very seldom see a U.S. poster try and extrapolate his views into events
and experiences in the U.K., claiming the U.K. should readopt the DP.
When I do, I recognize it as more of a defensive argument, rather than
a real CARING what the British do in their society. I certainly don't care
if the U.K. has or does not have the DP. So, I'm afraid this relates to a
feeling of inadequacy, and frustration on the part of our British brethren.
Quite often translating into things far separate from the DP, but
related more to things American, that are viewed in 'mock horror,'
by those 'elitists' within that affected group of malcontents. Such
as when they refer to ALL Americans as 'trailer trash,' 'red-necks,'
'semi-illiterate as an entire nation,' 'ill-educated,' 'uninformed,'
'over-weight,' 'arrogant,' 'incompetent,' 'imposing their will on other
nations,' 'possession oriented,' 'wasteful,' and 'hypocritically-religious.'
I certainly hardly believe that ALL British feel that way, and if
they do, that doesn't speak well of your nation.
I find some of the British who post here, are probably a small
minority of terribly frustrated people, owing to the lesser role that the
U.K. plays. And a disproportionate number of that small minority
appear here, because those satisfied with the U.S. in general,
find very little reason to post here. I see this disproportionate
number venting their frustration in an impotent rage and sterile
thinking against the one they see with 'the greater impact' on the
world stage -- The U.S. A microcosm of what we also see in the
Middle East.. . where the U.S. is seen as 'the Great Satan,'
simply because it IS 'SEEN 'AS GREAT. This is what I long ago
referred to as 'Penis envy.' These few have a crisis of confidence
in their OWN abilities, and lash out at the U.S. who they feel
has not shaped the world to THEIR liking. And this inability to
cope with no longer having control of world events, nor even
the ability to cope with their own future, develops a typical
psychological response of finding someone else to blame.
And who better than a nation that executes some of its murderers?
Now I am certain that a great deal of 'mock horror' will emerge
from the very people I am speaking of. And it will roll off my
back as water off the back of a duck... since it is all IMHO.
PV
Vlad " I am from THE NETHERLANDS you morons" Drac
>The essay underlines perfectly just what _is_ wrong with state
>orchestrated, ceremonial, premeditated homicide - there is simply
>nothing more that can be added.
>
I don't believe you really mean that, Doggiedog
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
>
> "John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:g3v69.981$XA1....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
> >
> > "John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:D0v69.971$XA1....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
> > >
> >
> > snip
> > >
> > > And I first read Orwell's essay when I was about 13. Such
> > > work does have a greater emotional impact when one is younger.
> > > BTW when have I ever claimed that my reaction to the DP
> > > was not emotional? I have never used the word - I have been
> > > careful to avoid it although it is not one of my verboten words.
> > > I am not anti feeling PV.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > That should read "I am not anti feeling, PV"; I am most certainly
> > anti feeling PV.
> >
> I'm really shattered. I will now 'unload' on you. I recognize that
> I should save this for others of British origin... but those others
> (desmond, dirtbag, Peter and Hugh), are so irrational that it would
> not penetrate... hopefully you will take it in the sense I present it,
> because it's not you specifically, but the inferiority complex I see
> behind most of the posting style of those I refer to --
>
> I have the perception that the trend of some of the British here to become
> more hurtful in their arguments, and more dogmatic in their position
> regarding the DP in another country, has a deeper significance.
> Perhaps related to the lesser role they realize that the British now
The silly season is upon us. I leave PV to the rest of you.
As for me, I'm off to the Land of the Free for the
next 10 days. New York, New York's a wonderful
town, a wonderful townnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!
xganon
>next 10 days. New York, New York's a wonderful
>town, a wonderful townnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!
AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE!
---
This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com
---
incubus
>
>
> A Hanging (August, 1931)
>
George Orwell's tail is certainly thought provoking work of art and I bet
most abolitionists and former abolitionists have thought the same as this Mr
Orwell did about the execution of a healthy individual. I see that but then
I think that the victims of the murderers are usually healthy people too
incubus
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnallg12.e9o.pasde...@lievre.voute.net...
> Le Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:15:53 +0800, Cerberus <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> a
écrit :
>
> > A Hanging (August, 1931)
>
> I read this about ten years ago. It sums up why the death penalty can
> never, _ever_ be right. To take a healthy, living, breathing human
> being, and destroy the life that is in him, to turn him into dead
> matter, is an affront to our common humanity, the likes of which have
> not been seen in Europe since 1945.
murderers take living breathing human beings and destroy them, and these
usually haven't commited the crime of murder.
>
> This 'right' is the 'right' which murderers see fit to appropriate. A
> 'right' which they do not have, and certainly a 'right' which we as
> society, have no business in 'exercising'.
The murderes have no right to take the life of their victims either but they
do.
Ps what the fuck are you doing posting on here when you should he having a
wail of a time on your holiday? now piss of Desi. Have a fantastic time and
come back refreshed and ready to face another x amount of months defending
your opinions :-)
>
> --
> Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
> Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
> desmond @ zeouane.org
> http: // www . zeouane . org
dirtdog
<abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
<snipped>
>I will
You _still_ haven't worked it out, have you, you illiterate fuckwit?
<nonsensical drivel snipped>
w00f
dirtdog
<j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
<snipped>
>
>As for me, I'm off to the Land of the Free for the
>next 10 days. New York, New York's a wonderful
>town, a wonderful townnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!
>
Have fun, you miserable old tart.
I think it's time they cut back on your pension if you can afford that
sort of thing in your retirement.
If I had my way, your idea of luxury would be a TV license so you can
watch countdown, you fucking drain on society.
w00f
BTW- Mark your diary for October 7th, when Doggie and his lovely
biaaatch will be absent for two weeks on account of our being 'forced'
to Barbados.
Life is tough, ain't it?
Jürgen
incubus schrieb in Nachricht
<2lz69.2916$Rc3....@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>...
>
>"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
>news:slrnallg12.e9o.pasde...@lievre.voute.net...
>> Le Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:15:53 +0800, Cerberus <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> a
>écrit :
>>
>> > A Hanging (August, 1931)
>>
>> I read this about ten years ago. It sums up why the death penalty can
>> never, _ever_ be right. To take a healthy, living, breathing human
>> being, and destroy the life that is in him, to turn him into dead
>> matter, is an affront to our common humanity, the likes of which have
>> not been seen in Europe since 1945.
>
>murderers take living breathing human beings and destroy them, and these
>usually haven't commited the crime of murder.
>
And the faults and depravity, the cynism and silliness of others is
guideline and measurement for your re-actions?
J.
incubus
> Le Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:48:28 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> >> > A Hanging (August, 1931)
>
> >> I read this about ten years ago. It sums up why the death penalty can
> >> never, _ever_ be right. To take a healthy, living, breathing human
> >> being, and destroy the life that is in him, to turn him into dead
> >> matter, is an affront to our common humanity, the likes of which have
> >> not been seen in Europe since 1945.
>
> > murderers take living breathing human beings and destroy them, and these
> > usually haven't commited the crime of murder.
>
>
> >> This 'right' is the 'right' which murderers see fit to appropriate. A
> >> 'right' which they do not have, and certainly a 'right' which we as
> >> society, have no business in 'exercising'.
>
> > The murderes have no right to take the life of their victims either but
they
> > do.
>
> isn't going to bring back the dead.
putting someone in prison is violating his/her rights. you cannot punish
someone without violating his/her rights
>
> > Ps what the fuck are you doing posting on here when you should he having
a
> > wail of a time on your holiday? now piss of Desi. Have a fantastic time
and
> > come back refreshed and ready to face another x amount of months
defending
> > your opinions :-)
>
> A 'wail' of a time ? LOL ...
>
> My wife told me that it was a bad idea to take her laptop with us. OK,
> tomorrow, we hit Sevilla. I shall try not to post until we get to
> Madrid at least ... which should happen next Tuesday. I can't promise,
> though ... kicking LDB's red arse up and down here, is soooo much good
> fun ...
i am planning a trip to ireland soon, i will not be taking my laptop with me
incubus
"Jürgen" <K.J.H...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:ajekfa$jo3$03$1...@news.t-online.com...
<coughs and spits out beer>
yes, its a guidline
>
> J.
>
>
dirtdog
Why, Vladdievlad?
w00f
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:40:02 +0000
>
>Le Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:15:53 +0800, Cerberus <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> a
>écrit :
>
>> A Hanging (August, 1931)
>
>I read this about ten years ago. It sums up why the death penalty can
>never, _ever_ be right. To take a healthy, living, breathing human
>being, and destroy the life that is in him, to turn him into dead
>matter, is an affront to our common humanity, the likes of which have
>not been seen in Europe since 1945.
>
>This 'right' is the 'right' which murderers see fit to appropriate. A
>'right' which they do not have, and certainly a 'right' which we as
>society, have no business in 'exercising'.
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu
!lnsnews.lns.cornell.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!
news.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.F
R!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:40:02 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 19
>Message-ID: <slrnallg12.e9o.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
>Reply-To: pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org
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>X-PGP: http://www.zeouane.org/pgp/pubring.pkr
>User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (FreeBSD)
>
Desi is afraid of his own words! He can be reached at des...@noos.fr or
des...@zeouane.org.
As everyone knows, only COWARDS forge posts yet don't allow their own to be
archived!
Now Desi, Tell us about the Baltimore County police.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:58:16 +0000
>
>Le Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:00:20 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip LDB's arse getting tanned _yet again_ ... }
>
>> The silly season is upon us. I leave PV to the rest of you.
>>
>> As for me, I'm off to the Land of the Free for the
>> next 10 days. New York, New York's a wonderful
>> town, a wonderful townnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!
>
>Have a good trip, John. Oh, and Boston is _much_ better ... ;-)
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!n
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lin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:58:16 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 17
>Message-ID: <slrnallh38.e9o.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
><Lpo69.1639$0U4....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>
><mNu69.181585$s8.34...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><D0v69.971$XA1....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net>
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>Reply-To: pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:59:27 +0000
>
>Le Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:05:30 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> I'm really shattered. I will now 'unload' on you. I recognize that
>> I should save this for others of British origin... but those others
>> (desmond, dirtbag, Peter and Hugh),
>
>*snigger*
>
>LDB blows his little toe off, by stating that Ireland is 'part of
>Britain' ... or perhaps it's part of 'Newfound' (sic) ... no, I
>know ... it's part of the country that is New South Wales ...
>
>ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!
>
>{ snips LDB whining that 'The Gang' is out to get him, and waits for
> predictable mention of Europe, which he always trots out when his
> arse has been spanked ... }
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!l
otsanews.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e
117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:59:27 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 25
>Message-ID: <slrnallklv.ep3.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
><Lpo69.1639$0U4....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>
><mNu69.181585$s8.34...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
><D0v69.971$XA1....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net>
><g3v69.981$XA1....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net>
><KZw69.182307$s8.34...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
>Reply-To: pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org
>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 22:03:37 +0000
>
>Le Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:48:28 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>>> > A Hanging (August, 1931)
>
>>> I read this about ten years ago. It sums up why the death penalty can
>>> never, _ever_ be right. To take a healthy, living, breathing human
>>> being, and destroy the life that is in him, to turn him into dead
>>> matter, is an affront to our common humanity, the likes of which have
>>> not been seen in Europe since 1945.
>
>> murderers take living breathing human beings and destroy them, and these
>> usually haven't commited the crime of murder.
>
>Indeed.
>
>>> This 'right' is the 'right' which murderers see fit to appropriate. A
>>> 'right' which they do not have, and certainly a 'right' which we as
>>> society, have no business in 'exercising'.
>
>> The murderes have no right to take the life of their victims either but
>they
>> do.
>
>True, no one disputes that. However, violating another's human rights,
>isn't going to bring back the dead.
>
>> Ps what the fuck are you doing posting on here when you should he having a
>> wail of a time on your holiday? now piss of Desi. Have a fantastic time and
>> come back refreshed and ready to face another x amount of months defending
>> your opinions :-)
>
>A 'wail' of a time ? LOL ...
>
>My wife told me that it was a bad idea to take her laptop with us. OK,
>tomorrow, we hit Sevilla. I shall try not to post until we get to
>Madrid at least ... which should happen next Tuesday. I can't promise,
>though ... kicking LDB's red arse up and down here, is soooo much good
>fun ...
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!n
ews.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newspeer.clara.ne
t!news.clara.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-b
erlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-6
>8.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 22:03:37 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 43
>Message-ID: <slrnallktp.ep3.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
><slrnallg12.e9o.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
><2lz69.2916$Rc3....@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>
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>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
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A Planet Visitor
"dirtdog" <dir...@fruffrant.com> wrote in message news:ughlluku123ejro77...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:05:30 GMT, "A Planet Visitor"
> <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
> >I will
>
>
I figured you out a long time ago, Louise. In fact, I believe it
happened the first time I referred to you as 'opposite man.'
PV
> w00f
>
>
A Planet Visitor
> Le Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:48:28 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
<clipped>
>
> True, no one disputes that. However, violating another's human rights,
> isn't going to bring back the dead.
>
ROTFLMAO. Too bad you have no idea what a 'human right' even is.
The purpose of punishment for a crime is NOT to undo the crime.
Crimes CANNOT be undone. It's the most absurd idea imaginable
regarding punishment in the justice system. We cannot restore
the victim of a rape, to an 'unraped' status either. But we punish
the rapist, and in effect violate his 'human rights.' Perhaps you
can explain to everyone what a 'human right' is, and who presumably
passes them on to us. And then explain how you come up with
the silly idea.
PV
>
> --
> Des On The Road |EVEN SATAN KNOWS
|AND LIFTS HIS BROW IN WONDER AT
|THE EVIL DESI SHOWS
A Planet Visitor
> Le Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:05:30 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> > I'm really shattered. I will now 'unload' on you. I recognize that
> > I should save this for others of British origin... but those others
> > (desmond, dirtbag, Peter and Hugh),
>
>
> LDB blows his little toe off, by stating that Ireland is 'part of
> Britain' ... or perhaps it's part of 'Newfound' (sic) ... no, I
> know ... it's part of the country that is New South Wales ...
>
Just as I would call an Austrian to be one of 'German origin.'
> ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!
>
> { snips LDB whining that 'The Gang' is out to get him, and waits for
> predictable mention of Europe, which he always trots out when his
> arse has been spanked ... }
>
Poor FDP. Drunk again. And we all know what a pathetic 'angry
drunk' he becomes. More to pity him, I would imagine. But then
one thinks of his 'poor wife,' and grieves for her.
Jürgen
incubus schrieb in Nachricht ...
>
>> >> > A Hanging (August, 1931)
>> >>
>> >> I read this about ten years ago. It sums up why the death penalty can
>> >> never, _ever_ be right. To take a healthy, living, breathing human
>> >> being, and destroy the life that is in him, to turn him into dead
>> >> matter, is an affront to our common humanity, the likes of which have
>> >> not been seen in Europe since 1945.
>> >
>> >murderers take living breathing human beings and destroy them, and these
>> >usually haven't commited the crime of murder.
>> >
>>
>> And the faults and depravity, the cynism and silliness of others is
>> guideline and measurement for your re-actions?
>
><coughs and spits out beer>
>
>yes, its a guidline
>
The threat to society is the guideline for a necessary measure to take by a
legal system. To derive from individual brutality the justification to set
foot on the area of penalties using mental pain for punishment however would
mean to declare the very deepest mental abyss a misguided individual can
descend to the general guiding principle. Brutality then is not wrong per
se, but only wrong in a conditional way.
J.
incubus
>
> incubus schrieb in Nachricht ...
> >
> >> >> > A Hanging (August, 1931)
> >> >>
> >> >> I read this about ten years ago. It sums up why the death penalty
can
> >> >> never, _ever_ be right. To take a healthy, living, breathing human
> >> >> being, and destroy the life that is in him, to turn him into dead
> >> >> matter, is an affront to our common humanity, the likes of which
have
> >> >> not been seen in Europe since 1945.
> >> >
> >> >murderers take living breathing human beings and destroy them, and
these
> >> >usually haven't commited the crime of murder.
> >> >
> >>
> >> And the faults and depravity, the cynism and silliness of others is
> >> guideline and measurement for your re-actions?
> >
> ><coughs and spits out beer>
> >
> Naw. No reason to waste good stuff.
absolutely. I sucked it out of my top afterwards
>
> >yes, its a guidline
> >
>
> The threat to society is the guideline for a necessary measure to take by
a
> legal system. To derive from individual brutality the justification to set
> foot on the area of penalties using mental pain for punishment however
would
> mean to declare the very deepest mental abyss a misguided individual can
> descend to the general guiding principle. Brutality then is not wrong per
> se, but only wrong in a conditional way.
i don't understand what you are talking about. A point that is not
comprehended is no point at all
>
> J.
>
>
Jürgen
incubus schrieb in Nachricht ...
>
>>
>a
>> legal system. To derive from individual brutality the justification to
set
>> foot on the area of penalties using mental pain for punishment however
>would
>> mean to declare the very deepest mental abyss a misguided individual can
>> descend to the general guiding principle. Brutality then is not wrong per
>> se, but only wrong in a conditional way.
>
>i don't understand what you are talking about. A point that is not
>comprehended is no point at all
>
>>
incubus
i rest my case
>
>
Jürgen
incubus schrieb in Nachricht ...
>
>"Jürgen" <K.J.H...@t-online.de> wrote in message
>news:ajgvc5$ar0$04$1...@news.t-online.com...
>>
>> incubus schrieb in Nachricht ...
>> >
>> >>
>> >> The threat to society is the guideline for a necessary measure to take
>by
>> >a
>> >> legal system. To derive from individual brutality the justification to
>> set
>> >> foot on the area of penalties using mental pain for punishment however
>> >would
>> >> mean to declare the very deepest mental abyss a misguided individual
>can
>> >> descend to the general guiding principle. Brutality then is not wrong
>per
>> >> se, but only wrong in a conditional way.
>> >
>> >i don't understand what you are talking about. A point that is not
>> >comprehended is no point at all
>> >
>> >>
>> Na dann...........prost!!
>
>i rest my case
>>
Oh...you do have a case?
incubus
yes i stated it above, unlike yourself who hid yours in a showoof array of
gibberish. If you can't state a point in a way that mr average can
comprehend then you cut off your own nose to spite your face
>
>
Jürgen
Meister, ich bin nicht darauf angewiesen, in Ihrem Idiom zu schreiben. Ich
kann auch meine Sprache nutzen, und zur Abwechslung mal Sie übersetzen
lassen. Dann machen Sie mal die Arbeit, und ich übernehme den Part des
Klugscheißers.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Jürgen
incubus
This is not about your language Jurgen. You do not have to speak in my
language and I don't have to speak in yours. It is about speaking in the
most common tongue. If it were German then I would speak it happily even
though I know very little of it. Perhaps you didn't realise that your post
earlier in this thread was tricky to comprehend. If it's any consolation
your English is infinitely better than my German
Jürgen
What do you not comprehend? That the use of a torturing penalty sheds a
disturbing light on the enacting society? Or that killing as a punishment
for killing can be set forth until all atrocities ever thinkable are settled
in the justice system?
incubus
The semantics of the whole passage
>That the use of a torturing penalty sheds a
> disturbing light on the enacting society? Or that killing as a punishment
> for killing can be set forth until all atrocities ever thinkable are
settled
> in the justice system?
This one is better. Capital punishment is not about torture. Torture is
definatley not meant to be part of it. Killing as a punishment for killing
can only be done while the guilty still live. To punish thier children is
punishing the innocent for the crimes of the guilty
>
>
>
A Planet Visitor
"Jürgen" <K.J.H...@t-online.de> wrote in message news:ajh1id$c1j$06$1...@news.t-online.com...
in German, no one is stopping you. But if you wish to argue against
those who argue in English, you should be prepared to accept that
some may find your English limited. Personally, I've found that
you've slowly improved since I 'beat on you,' about this very subject.
Where you still lack clarity, is when you become overwrought,
and try to express yourself in more emotional or even philosophical
terms. It seems to me you try to be TOO expressive, and your words
tumble out without making much sense. No one is claiming you
are not a 'smartshit,' but the idea that you believe you can answer
a post written in English, with a reply in German, simply makes
no sense. Clearly, if you post your reply in German, you can
expect a reply from someone who writes in German. But you
certainly cannot expect a reply from someone who has written
his comment in English.
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> Jürgen
Für Dich daß selbe
PV
Cerberus
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
news:yj_69.301092$XH.68...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
Jurgen,
Finden Leute es sehr schwierig, Ihren Engländer zu verstehen, weil Sie
offensichtlich sehr erzogen werden und ich glaube, versuchen, Wörter zu
gebrauchen, die sehr gut nicht übersetzen. Versuchen Sie, einfache Wörter,
meinen Freund zu gebrauchen. Entschuldigen Sie bitte meinen armen Deutschen.
WooF w00f WooF
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incubus
"Cerberus" <Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote in message
news:3d5c9...@goliath.newsgroups.com...
another one that has found translator.dictionary.com :-) Another good tip is
to do reverse translation, if it makes sense both ways then you know it
works :-)
incubus
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
news:yj_69.301092$XH.68...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
Its probably my fault at least partially. I thought Jurgen was another of
those from a none English speaking country that learn English and try to
prove themselves by confusing the English with what they know. It didn't
occur to me for a second that Jurgen was struggling and needed a translator
Jürgen
incubus schrieb in Nachricht ...
>> >
>> >This is not about your language Jurgen. You do not have to speak in my
>> >language and I don't have to speak in yours. It is about speaking in the
>> >most common tongue. If it were German then I would speak it happily even
>> >though I know very little of it. Perhaps you didn't realise that your
>post
>> >earlier in this thread was tricky to comprehend. If it's any consolation
>> >your English is infinitely better than my German
>> >
>>
>> What do you not comprehend?
>
>The semantics of the whole passage
>
>
>>That the use of a torturing penalty sheds a
>> disturbing light on the enacting society? Or that killing as a punishment
>> for killing can be set forth until all atrocities ever thinkable are
>settled
>> in the justice system?
>
>This one is better. Capital punishment is not about torture. Torture is
>definatley not meant to be part of it.
(1) Torture IS EVER part of CP, whether deliberatedly or unintendedly is
meaningless in the first place.
(2) The torturing mortal dread is quite premediatedly used for extra
punishment and often even artificially aggravated on US-death rows. Thus,
nothing "definitely not meant" to be gruesome. The contrary is true.
Killing as a punishment for killing
>can only be done while the guilty still live. To punish thier children is
>punishing the innocent for the crimes of the guilty
>
>
Capital punishment does so, although indirectly. A guilty regularly has
innocent relatives who are bound by nature to love and to care for him/her,
and an execution will punish them most cruelly alongside with the wrongdoer.
As a totally insufficient counterweight to this 'collateral damage' can be
put solely the thirst for revenge - in other words, the satisfaction of a
low instinct is of greater priority than the right of innocents to a
peaceful inner state.
Jürgen
incubus
>
> incubus schrieb in Nachricht ...
>
> >> >
> >> >This is not about your language Jurgen. You do not have to speak in my
> >> >language and I don't have to speak in yours. It is about speaking in
the
> >> >most common tongue. If it were German then I would speak it happily
even
> >> >though I know very little of it. Perhaps you didn't realise that your
> >post
> >> >earlier in this thread was tricky to comprehend. If it's any
consolation
> >> >your English is infinitely better than my German
> >> >
> >>
> >> What do you not comprehend?
> >
> >The semantics of the whole passage
> >
> >
> >>That the use of a torturing penalty sheds a
> >> disturbing light on the enacting society? Or that killing as a
punishment
> >> for killing can be set forth until all atrocities ever thinkable are
> >settled
> >> in the justice system?
> >
> >This one is better. Capital punishment is not about torture. Torture is
> >definatley not meant to be part of it.
>
> (1) Torture IS EVER part of CP, whether deliberatedly or unintendedly is
> meaningless in the first place.
No. The death penalty is meant ot be painless. well its is in the us and was
in the uk anyway.
> (2) The torturing mortal dread is quite premediatedly used for extra
> punishment and often even artificially aggravated on US-death rows. Thus,
> nothing "definitely not meant" to be gruesome. The contrary is true.
you mean the fear of the death penalty?
At least these people get some warning and the oppotunity to tie up thier
affairs ancluding saying goodbye to their families etc unlike the victims
who had no such luxury.
>
> Killing as a punishment for killing
> >can only be done while the guilty still live. To punish thier children is
> >punishing the innocent for the crimes of the guilty
> >
> >
> Capital punishment does so, although indirectly. A guilty regularly has
> innocent relatives who are bound by nature to love and to care for
him/her,
> and an execution will punish them most cruelly alongside with the
wrongdoer.
as will prison or any other form of punishment. The family of the guilty is
innocent but the suffering is caused by the guilty not by those that punish
the guilty
> As a totally insufficient counterweight to this 'collateral damage' can be
> put solely the thirst for revenge - in other words, the satisfaction of a
> low instinct is of greater priority than the right of innocents to a
> peaceful inner state.
yes the innocent do have that right, but it won't happen because the guilty
exist
>
> Jürgen
>
>
>
Jürgen
Cerberus schrieb in Nachricht <3d5c9...@goliath.newsgroups.com>...
>
>Jurgen,
>
>Finden Leute es sehr schwierig, Ihren Engländer zu verstehen, weil Sie
>offensichtlich sehr erzogen werden und ich glaube, versuchen, Wörter zu
>gebrauchen, die sehr gut nicht übersetzen. Versuchen Sie, einfache Wörter,
>meinen Freund zu gebrauchen. Entschuldigen Sie bitte meinen armen
Deutschen.
>
>WooF w00f WooF
>
Hmmmm...what do you mean in concrete; do my expressions translate badly, or
are they merely not constituents of the yellow-press-fundus?
Sincerely
Jürgen
Jürgen
incubus schrieb in Nachricht <04779.597$B46.45711@newsfep2-gui>...
<"deserves" argument snipped>
>> Killing as a punishment for killing
>> >can only be done while the guilty still live. To punish thier children
is
>> >punishing the innocent for the crimes of the guilty
>> >
>> >
>> Capital punishment does so, although indirectly. A guilty regularly has
>> innocent relatives who are bound by nature to love and to care for
>him/her,
>> and an execution will punish them most cruelly alongside with the
>wrongdoer.
>
>as will prison or any other form of punishment. The family of the guilty is
>innocent but the suffering is caused by the guilty not by those that punish
>the guilty
>
"My son/daughter/mother/father is in prison."
"My son/daughter/mother/father is on death row and my society makes
tremendous effords to kill him/her."
You should very quickly grasp the difference between this two statements.
Otherwise I will be too bored to reply.
J.
dirtdog
<Cerb...@riverstyx.net> wrote:
<snipped several other posters attempting to speak Nazi, with only the
real sausage muncher getting it right>
>
>Jurgen,
>
>Finden Leute es sehr schwierig, Ihren Engländer zu verstehen, weil Sie
>offensichtlich sehr erzogen werden und ich glaube, versuchen, Wörter zu
>gebrauchen, die sehr gut nicht übersetzen. Versuchen Sie, einfache Wörter,
>meinen Freund zu gebrauchen. Entschuldigen Sie bitte meinen armen Deutschen.
>
>WooF w00f WooF
>
Sorry, chaps, this is *OFF TOPIC*.
The subject of this newsgroup is the abolition of the cruel and unjust
death penalty in the United States (the most ideologically backward
country in the world, BTW).
Kindly take your homage to sausage munching, spiky helmeted, sunbed
stealing Krauts and their hairy armpited women elsewhere.
w00f
incubus
If you think i care whether you are bored or not or even whether you post
ever again, then you flatter yourself.
the valid statement is, "I am a relative of someone who is convicted of a
crime"
Everyone dies it is inevitable, executions and murder just bring it forward.
Prison doesn't happen to everybody but the effects of both are equally as
devistating to the family. Get a grip Jurgon
>
> J.
>
>
>
incubus
> Le Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:27:55 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> (2) The torturing mortal dread is quite premediatedly used for extra
> >> punishment and often even artificially aggravated on US-death rows.
Thus,
> >> nothing "definitely not meant" to be gruesome. The contrary is true.
>
> > you mean the fear of the death penalty?
> > At least these people get some warning and the oppotunity to tie up
thier
> > affairs ancluding saying goodbye to their families etc unlike the
victims
> > who had no such luxury.
>
> they'd like to die. 'In my sleep' must be about the most common response.
and understandably so. though i would have to say "while shagging the
minogue sisters" don't tell my wife ;-)
>
> Why do you think this is ? Two reasons : one, they don't want to suffer,
> and two ... they don't want to know when they're about to pop their
> clogs.
so? the victims of the murderers didn't want to die either. What choice were
they given?
>
> No one wants to know when he's going to die.
I do. I would like to be immortal in truth but i good consolation would be
to know the date of my death
>To know the date and
> hour of your death would be unbearable to all but the suicidal. Everyone
> wants death to be quick and painless, but most of all ... _no one wants
> to have advance warning of it_
Don't be so sure my friend. I for one would not fear the info. I am not
religious by any account but i do not fear death. Its just the dying bit i
am scared of
at least the lethal injection is nearly always painless
>
> This is the 'torture' aspect of the death penalty which you cannot
> eliminate. Deathies concentrate so much on the _physical_ aspects
> of capital punishment ... will it hurt ..? Is it gory ? Will the
> brain register pain when the current is switched on ..? No one
> stops to consider that telling a person months or years in advance,
> of the time and date of his death, is _extreme_ mental torture.
i beg to differ but as a deathie i am aware of the emotionally aprehenstion
of the executee about his/her impending execution, which is why i don't
think all murderers deserve to die, only the most evil and even then they
should get a humane death such as the lethal injection.
I used to be an aboloshonist like you desi but when i saw the way the
nastiest monsters tortured their victims and made them suffer. The ones that
were executed richly deserved it and got a more merciful death than the ones
they gave to their victims. not to mention the emotional tirture they gave
thier victims before the incident. I include rape and kidnapping in these
cases. whatever way you look at it the murderers got no worse than they gave
thier victims
>
> To claim that the death penalty is somehow more 'humane' than murder,
> because it gives the condemned time to 'get his affairs in order', or
> to 'say goodbye to his loved ones', is utter rubbish. This is exactly
> what makes the death penalty _less_ humane than murder.
>
> { snip }
>
> --
incubus
<snip>
> To claim that the death penalty is somehow more 'humane' than murder,
> because it gives the condemned time to 'get his affairs in order', or
> to 'say goodbye to his loved ones', is utter rubbish. This is exactly
> what makes the death penalty _less_ humane than murder.
>
The only humane murder is called execution. The psychological trauma of the
victim of murder is more intense. it is like the whole anxiety of the death
sentence compressed into minutes
The victims are innocent and do not deserve it unlike the swines that kill
them
dirtdog
wrote:
<of dying>
>
>and understandably so. though i would have to say "while shagging the
>minogue sisters"
_Definite proof_ that you are a fucking poof, and a virgin to boot!
Any hetrosexual male or male with some experience of 'dealing with' a
pig would undoubtedly dread the thought of dying whilst pumping it up
Kylie from the rear as Dannii licked his sweaty arsehole - certainly
if death was to occur before administering both of the dirty little
cows with a good, meaty pearl necklace.
>don't tell my wife ;-)
What wife would that be, Barrymore?
<snip>
w00f
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:20:22 +0000
>
>Le Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:46:57 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>{ snip }
>
>> Its probably my fault at least partially. I thought Jurgen was another of
>> those from a none English speaking country that learn English and try to
>> prove themselves by confusing the English with what they know.
>
>No, that's LDB.
>
>> It didn't
>> occur to me for a second that Jurgen was struggling and needed a translator
>
>LDB gets everywhere, doesn't he ..?
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news
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68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:20:22 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 20
>Message-ID: <slrnalqnk5.55c.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
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>Reply-To: pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org
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>
Desi is afraid of his own words! He can be reached at des...@noos.fr or
des...@zeouane.org.
As everyone knows, only COWARDS forge posts yet don't allow their own to be
archived!
Now Desi, Tell us about the Baltimore County police.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:31:19 +0000
>
>Le Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:27:55 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> (2) The torturing mortal dread is quite premediatedly used for extra
>>> punishment and often even artificially aggravated on US-death rows. Thus,
>>> nothing "definitely not meant" to be gruesome. The contrary is true.
>
>> you mean the fear of the death penalty?
>> At least these people get some warning and the oppotunity to tie up thier
>> affairs ancluding saying goodbye to their families etc unlike the victims
>> who had no such luxury.
>
>incubus, _think_, man ! Think about all those people who are asked how
>they'd like to die. 'In my sleep' must be about the most common response.
>
>Why do you think this is ? Two reasons : one, they don't want to suffer,
>and two ... they don't want to know when they're about to pop their
>clogs.
>
>No one wants to know when he's going to die. To know the date and
>hour of your death would be unbearable to all but the suicidal. Everyone
>wants death to be quick and painless, but most of all ... _no one wants
>to have advance warning of it_.
>
>This is the 'torture' aspect of the death penalty which you cannot
>eliminate. Deathies concentrate so much on the _physical_ aspects
>of capital punishment ... will it hurt ..? Is it gory ? Will the
>brain register pain when the current is switched on ..? No one
>stops to consider that telling a person months or years in advance,
>of the time and date of his death, is _extreme_ mental torture.
>
>To claim that the death penalty is somehow more 'humane' than murder,
>because it gives the condemned time to 'get his affairs in order', or
>to 'say goodbye to his loved ones', is utter rubbish. This is exactly
>what makes the death penalty _less_ humane than murder.
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-b
erlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:31:19 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 44
>Message-ID: <slrnalqv9m.5lu.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
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><ajitur$kji$05$1...@news.t-online.com> <04779.597$B46.45711@newsfep2-gui>
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A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnalqv9m.5lu.pasde...@lievre.voute.net...
> To claim that the death penalty is somehow more 'humane' than murder,
> because it gives the condemned time to 'get his affairs in order', or
> to 'say goodbye to his loved ones', is utter rubbish. This is exactly
> what makes the death penalty _less_ humane than murder.
>
What a moron. That certainly makes it more humane. And for
the murderer's family as well. Perhaps you should try and examine
(I know how hard that is for you, DFP) the devastating effect an
unforeseen murder has on a family. The mother and father,
or wife and children, having to look about every day with instant
memories that draw a stark reminder to their loss. No time
to grieve... no time to say goodbye... no time to do anything
but crumble under the relentless pressure that each day
brings if the murderer is not found, or if he is found. The
profound loss that alters a family FOREVER, and carries
into the next generation as well. A family reduced to simply
putting one foot in front of the other, mechanically, for the
rest of THEIR days. The effect on the family of a victim is
immeasurable greater than that on the family of the murderer
being executed, since final goodbyes DO provide a sense of
closure for them, while all agree that closure for the victim's
family does not come easily, even WHEN the murderer is
executed. And many is the murderer who has 'found' closure
at his own execution, while a victim NEVER finds closure...
he has no time to do so.
> { snip }
>
> --
> Des On The Road |EVEN SATAN KNOWS
|AND LIFTS HIS BROW IN WONDER AT
|THE EVIL DESI SHOWS
A Planet Visitor
"incubus" <inc...@hellfire.com> wrote in message news:Vlf79.15339$IU4.4...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
>
> <snip>
> > To claim that the death penalty is somehow more 'humane' than murder,
> > because it gives the condemned time to 'get his affairs in order', or
> > to 'say goodbye to his loved ones', is utter rubbish. This is exactly
> > what makes the death penalty _less_ humane than murder.
> >
> i missed this bit
>
> The only humane murder is called execution. The psychological trauma of the
> victim of murder is more intense. it is like the whole anxiety of the death
> sentence compressed into minutes
>
is not 'murder.' The very concepts are the opposite. Murder is a crime.
Execution is a PENALTY for that crime. It is as silly as saying
incarceration is kidnapping, to presume that the DP is murder. The DP
is not...and it by definition cannot... be murder.
> The victims are innocent and do not deserve it unlike the swines that kill
> them
>
There is no doubt that that is a true statement. No victim of murder
is anything but an innocent. The worst drug-dealer cannot be 'guilty'
of BEING murdered. One can only be guilty of COMMITTING murder.
And an execution of a murderer is rightly defined as a homicide. Which
is not a murder, since a killing in self-defense is also classed as a
homicide. No one questions the police sniper who kills a hostage-taker,
on orders from his superiors. Yet there is no question that THE SNIPER
is NOT acting in 'individual' self-defense. HIS life is not being threatened.
And the same applies to the DP.
PV
incubus
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
>
> "incubus" <inc...@hellfire.com> wrote in message
news:Vlf79.15339$IU4.4...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> >
> > <snip>
> > > To claim that the death penalty is somehow more 'humane' than murder,
> > > because it gives the condemned time to 'get his affairs in order', or
> > > to 'say goodbye to his loved ones', is utter rubbish. This is exactly
> > > what makes the death penalty _less_ humane than murder.
> > >
> > i missed this bit
> >
> > The only humane murder is called execution. The psychological trauma of
the
> > victim of murder is more intense. it is like the whole anxiety of the
death
> > sentence compressed into minutes
> >
> Do not for one moment, let these morons confuse you. Execution
> is not 'murder.' The very concepts are the opposite. Murder is a crime.
> Execution is a PENALTY for that crime. It is as silly as saying
> incarceration is kidnapping, to presume that the DP is murder. The DP
> is not...and it by definition cannot... be murder.
give me a break. It was Friday night when i posted that :-) besides, a
murder is a collection of crows ;-)
>
> > The victims are innocent and do not deserve it unlike the swines that
kill
> > them
> >
> There is no doubt that that is a true statement. No victim of murder
> is anything but an innocent. The worst drug-dealer cannot be 'guilty'
> of BEING murdered. One can only be guilty of COMMITTING murder.
> And an execution of a murderer is rightly defined as a homicide. Which
> is not a murder, since a killing in self-defense is also classed as a
> homicide. No one questions the police sniper who kills a hostage-taker,
> on orders from his superiors. Yet there is no question that THE SNIPER
> is NOT acting in 'individual' self-defense. HIS life is not being
threatened.
> And the same applies to the DP.
and the snipers shot usuually causes instant painless death too unlike many
murders
incubus
> Le Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:49:54 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> incubus, _think_, man ! Think about all those people who are asked how
> >> they'd like to die. 'In my sleep' must be about the most common
response.
>
> > and understandably so. though i would have to say "while shagging the
> > minogue sisters" don't tell my wife ;-)
>
absolutely. the fact that you don't like the minogue sisters is bizarre to
me :-P
>
> { snip }
>
> >> No one wants to know when he's going to die.
>
> > I do. I would like to be immortal in truth but i good consolation would
be
> > to know the date of my death
>
> Well then you're a fool. Only a fool would want to be immortal. Are
> you afraid to die ?
yes
>
> >>To know the date and
> >> hour of your death would be unbearable to all but the suicidal.
Everyone
> >> wants death to be quick and painless, but most of all ... _no one wants
> >> to have advance warning of it_
>
> > Don't be so sure my friend. I for one would not fear the info. I am not
> > religious by any account but i do not fear death. Its just the dying bit
i
> > am scared of
> > at least the lethal injection is nearly always painless
>
> Once again, you are focusing on the physical aspect _during_ the
> execution. There are more ways to torture someone, than simply
> physically.
i know. My last marriage was one of them
incubus
> Le Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:53:10 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> >> To claim that the death penalty is somehow more 'humane' than murder,
> >> because it gives the condemned time to 'get his affairs in order', or
> >> to 'say goodbye to his loved ones', is utter rubbish. This is exactly
> >> what makes the death penalty _less_ humane than murder.
>
> > i missed this bit
> >
> > The only humane murder is called execution. The psychological trauma of
the
> > victim of murder is more intense. it is like the whole anxiety of the
death
> > sentence compressed into minutes
>
>
> Case study ... Tiffany Jones, working the 7-11 on Rodeo, about to
> close up for the night. She's looking forward to
> going to her boyfriend Brad's house. His folks
> are on 'vacation' (sic) in Florida, and tonight's
> the night when she's gonna 'give out'. Her doctor
> showed her how to fit the diaphragm yesterday, and
> warned her not to forget the spermicidal cream. She
> hums 'New York State o' Mind' by Billy Joel, as she
> wonders what Brad will feel like, inside her. She's
> a virgin, but she's sure that he'll be gentle. Her
> friends all say it hurts the first time, and that
> there's blood. But she's in love with Brad, and
> wants to do this with him ... she's ready.
>
> Two hundred and seventy-nine dollars, and eighty-four
> cents. As she places the money into the bag, ready to
> walk the 100 yards to the safe deposit box, she hears
> the 'ding!' of the door opening. Drat, she forgot to
> lock up. 'Excuse me, sir, we're closed for the ni...'
> There, barely ten feet from her till, is a man, wearing
> black, with straggly blond hair, and three days growth.
> What scares Tiffany ... what sends a shiver of terror
> down her back, is the gun in the man's left hand. Why
> didn't she lock the door, damnit ... 'Wha ... what do
> want ? Please don't hurt me ...'
>
> 'Shut the fuck up, whore ! Put the money on the
counter!!'
> 'Why isn't he wearing a mask ? I can identify him ...
> which means ... ohmyGodplease ... please, God ...'
> Before she has a chance to reach for the silent alarm
> button under the counter, the man levels the gun at
> her head. 'Bitch ....'
>
> He fires once. 43 seconds passed from the time
> she noticed the man's presence, until he fired.
> The bullet, a .38 calibre Remington, crosses the
> distance between the gun and her head, at 8,200 feet
> per second, and and two thousandths of a second later,
> punches a hole in her skull, barely a centimetre above
> the supra-orbital margin; ripping a trail backwards
> through the left temporal lobe, before exiting between
> the occipatal and the right parietal bones.
> Unconsciousness is instantaneous.
> Tiffany slumps forward onto the desk, and the weight of
> her body pulls her sideways off of her seat, and onto
> the floor. As she falls, her skirt rides up over her
> hips. The man notes that she isn't wearing panties.
>
> 'I shoulda raped her first, the whore ...' but his
> thoughts are cut short by the sound of sirens outside.
>
> Tiffany's heart will continue to beat for another
> one minute and eight seconds. Then she will die.
>
> Seventeen years old.
>
> The man grabs the bag of money, and runs for the
> door, but as he steps onto the street, he is
> aware of two men in casual dress, standing facing
> him. As if in a dream, he sees their arms stretched
> out in front of them ... they're holding guns.
> 'Police !! Drop the gun !! Do it, do it now !!!'
> Things happen in slow motion. He's kneeling on the
> 'sidewalk' (sic), hands behind his head. He's being
> handcuffed. He's in the back of a police car. The
> drive to the 'precinct' (sic) seems to take hours.
> He's being fingerprinted, photographed. Interviewed
> by two policemen in suits. 'I want a lawyer ... I know
> my rights ...'
>
> 'You know your rights, mothafucker ?!! What about the
> poor girl whose brains you spread over the floor
> tonight ? What about her rights ??!!'
>
> Photographs are shown to him ... a girl who was
beautiful
> in life ... a cruel, red pock-mark above her left eye
> where the bullet that tore her life from her, entered
her
> body ... her lifeless eyes staring at eternity. A 5-
> dollar bill still clutched in her hand.
>
> 'She was seventeen, you cocksucker !!!'
>
> 'I want my lawyer !!'
>
> 'You piece o' ...'
>
> The policeman raises his hand to strike ...
>
> 'Jack !! Wait outside ...'
>
> His lawyer advises him to remain silent. He's indicted
> for murder in the first degree. The TV set in the gaol
> is on all the time. He sees the District Attorney tell
> reporters that this '... is the most vicious murder
that
> I have seen in my twenty-two years of practising [sic]
> law. We intend to seek the death penalty.'
>
> The clock that started ticking when he entered the
> 7-11, is now at eighty-two days, eight hours, seven
> minutes, and forty-two seconds.
>
> 'Ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, have you reached
> a verdict ?'
> 'We have, your Honour.'
> 'What say you ?'
> 'In the matter of the State of California versus
> John Lee Anderson, case number 349-663, we, the
> people, find the defendant guilty of murder in the
> first degree.'
>
> Two hundred and nine days, one hour, twenty-four
> minutes, and twelve seconds ...
>
> 'Would the defendant please rise ... Mr Anderson,
> you have been found guilty of murder in the first
> degree. Before I pass sentence have you anything
> to say ?'
>
> Two hundred and nine days, one hour, twenty-four
> minutes, and fifty-nine seconds ...
>
> 'I'm sorry, your Honour ... I panicked ... I didn't
> mean to kill 'er ...'
>
> 'Mr Anderson, in accordance with the laws of the state
> of California, it is the sentence of this Court, that
> you be taken from here, to a place of execution, and
> that henceforth, upon orders from the Governor of the
> State, that you be put to death by lethal injection.
> And may the Lord [sic] have mercy on your soul.'
>
> Eleven years, two days, one hour, and eleven minutes.
> John Lee Anderson is lying on a 'gurney' (sic). His
> arms are outstretched, each with a needle leading to
> three phials, behind a false wall. The room in which
> he finds himself has two mirrored walls. Behind one,
> are his family ... well, his niece Tammy, the only
> family he has. Behind another, is Tiffany's mother.
> Although John Lee Anderson can't see her, and has not
> seen her since the trial, she has lost 20 lbs. Her
hair,
> once long, sleek and lustrous, is now dry and grey.
Her
> husband is dead. He has been for eight years. He
never
> recovered from Tiffany's death. He put the muzzle
> of his hunting rifle in his mouth, and pulled the
> trigger. He left a note, 'Promise me that you'll watch
> that son of a bitch die'. She will keep her promise.
> But goddamnit, her knees are gonna give out. She's
> never seen a man die ... why did this happen to her ?
> She was so sweet ...
>
> She wipes the tear from her eye and steels herself ...
> she has to watch the man who tore their lives apart,
> pay for his crime.
>
> 'John Lee Anderson, do you have any final words ?'
>
> 'I'm sorry, Mrs. [sic] Jones. I hope that what's gonna
> happen here tonight, will bring you some peace. I
> didn't mean to kill you [sic] daughter. I really
didn't.
> That don't [sic] excuse what I done [sic], but I just
> want you to know, that I'm sorry. I'm real [sic]
sorry.
> Warden, send me home.'
>
> The warden nods, and a slight humming noise fills the
> room as the first of the three deadly chemicals, is
> pumped along the IV line into John Lee Anderson's
veins.
> He gasps, his chest heaves, he exhales loudly, and
> slips into unconsciouness.
>
> The clock stops.
>
> Eleven years, two days, one hour, seventeen minutes,
and
> 4 seconds.
>
> 347,073,424 seconds.
>
> Now, let's (just for a second) leave aside questions of morality, and of
> who 'deserves' (sic) to die. Just ask yourself this ... what would you
> you rather have ? 43 seconds of terror ? Or three hundred and forty-
> seven million of them ?
>
> My choice is already made.
dumb it down a bit desi. I am illiterate after all
:-P
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:20:02 +0000
>
>Le Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:49:54 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> incubus, _think_, man ! Think about all those people who are asked how
>>> they'd like to die. 'In my sleep' must be about the most common response.
>
>> and understandably so. though i would have to say "while shagging the
>> minogue sisters" don't tell my wife ;-)
>
>No accounting for taste ... :-(
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> No one wants to know when he's going to die.
>
>> I do. I would like to be immortal in truth but i good consolation would be
>> to know the date of my death
>
>Well then you're a fool. Only a fool would want to be immortal. Are
>you afraid to die ?
>
>>>To know the date and
>>> hour of your death would be unbearable to all but the suicidal. Everyone
>>> wants death to be quick and painless, but most of all ... _no one wants
>>> to have advance warning of it_
>
>> Don't be so sure my friend. I for one would not fear the info. I am not
>> religious by any account but i do not fear death. Its just the dying bit i
>> am scared of
>> at least the lethal injection is nearly always painless
>
>Once again, you are focusing on the physical aspect _during_ the
>execution. There are more ways to torture someone, than simply
>physically.
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:20:02 +0000
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:54:05 +0000
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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or-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:54:05 +0000
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A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnalt3ds.al9.pasde...@lievre.voute.net...
> >> because it gives the condemned time to 'get his affairs in order', or
> >> to 'say goodbye to his loved ones', is utter rubbish. This is exactly
> >> what makes the death penalty _less_ humane than murder.
>
> > i missed this bit
> >
> > The only humane murder is called execution. The psychological trauma of the
> > victim of murder is more intense. it is like the whole anxiety of the death
> > sentence compressed into minutes
>
Your 'choice' presumes that you are choosing between being a
VICTIM or being a MURDERER. And you have chosen that you would
RATHER be a victim. Thus , I doubt very seriously that your 'choice'
represents any realistic choice. Victims do not choose to be
VICTIMS, thus your 'choice' makes little sense. Only murderers
choose to be murderers in a VOLUNTARY act. The real choice is
would you rather BE MURDERED, or have your POTENTIAL
MURDERER removed before you are murdered?
Nor can you arbitrarily 'put aside' those factors that are RESPONSIBLE
for the situation you describe, even for the sake of argument, because
the argument then no longer makes sense. What you have claimed
we should 'put aside' is central to the very idea of punishment for
crimes. You can no more put aside 'deserves it,' than you can
put aside 'water' in an examination of what is responsible for 'flood
damage.' The DP has EXACTLY to do with 'deserves it' and 'society
self-defense spoken as public safety.' It has nothing to do with 'your'
particular choice, since you are not a murderer. If anything, your choice
indicates you would RATHER be a victim. Which is the most
hypocritical claim I have ever heard you make, since victims NEVER
choose to BE VICTIMS. And the idea that a murder victim NEVER
has time to put their affairs in order, as the murderer about to be
executed has, is quite valid.
PV
> { snip }
>
> --
incubus
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnalt3ds.al9.pasde...@lievre.voute.net...
> Le Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:53:10 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> >> because it gives the condemned time to 'get his affairs in order', or
> >> to 'say goodbye to his loved ones', is utter rubbish. This is exactly
> >> what makes the death penalty _less_ humane than murder.
>
> > i missed this bit
> >
> > The only humane murder is called execution. The psychological trauma of
the
> > victim of murder is more intense. it is like the whole anxiety of the
death
> > sentence compressed into minutes
>
that was just one. other deaths are not so quick and besides even though
Tiffany died quickly her mother didn't. She suffered on and her father lost
the will to live. The murderer killed two completely and destroyed the life
of the third. Tiffany's mother will probably never recover.
John Lee Anderson's execution was well deserved and he suffered the way
Tiffany's parents had though his eventual death was quick and painless.
Justice was done
dirtdog
wrote:
<off topic blither snipped>
>
>i know. My last marriage was one of them
>
On your second marriage already at 14, 'incubus'?
What is your 'wife'* going to do in two weeks when you're back at
school?
w00f
*- TRANSLATION: Hand
incubus
> Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:01:34 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> Well then you're a fool. Only a fool would want to be immortal. Are
> >> you afraid to die ?
>
> > yes
>
> all. To 'fear' that which cannot, under any circumstances, be avoided,
> is (IMHO) silly.
<sigh>
I know death is the one bit of nature that unifies us all Desi, but i am in
know rush to experience it first hand. Do you know what i mean?
Ok if i reach 80 then i may think differently but for now i am a healthy man
in his mid thirties that enjoys life too much do leave it just now.
incubus
> Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:52:21 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> { snip my marvellous short story }
>
> >> Now, let's (just for a second) leave aside questions of morality, and
of
> >> who 'deserves' (sic) to die. Just ask yourself this ... what would you
> >> you rather have ? 43 seconds of terror ? Or three hundred and forty-
> >> seven million of them ?
> >>
> >> My choice is already made.
>
> > Tiffany died quickly her mother didn't. She suffered on and her father
lost
> > the will to live. The murderer killed two completely and destroyed the
life
> > of the third. Tiffany's mother will probably never recover.
>
> responsibility ...
>
> The murderer killed Tiffany, and he _certainly_ fucked up the lives of
> her family. However, her father pulled the trigger of his own accord.
> He is solely responsible for his death.
yes but he wouldn't have had his daughter not been murdered. Normally i
would agree with you Desi. the one who does the action is normally
responsible but life isn't that black and white. Because of this murderer
three people are dead and an innocent is siffering horribly
before you ask the third dead person is the murderer himself
>
> > John Lee Anderson's execution was well deserved and he suffered the way
> > Tiffany's parents had though his eventual death was quick and painless.
> > Justice was done
>
> The word 'justice' is all too often hijacked by those who believe
> that it is to be applied only to the innocent. The innocent 'get
> justice' ... well, no. There can be no justice until the judged are
> treated fairly, humanely, and in accordance with the dignity that is
> their birthright.
Oh come on Desi. Stop taking the piss. Yes everyone has the right to be
treated humanely as is his right but again i bring up the father and the
mother of Tiffany. None of them deserved what they got but the fellow who
ruined thier lives did. Ok he has paid the piper now and i hope he rests in
peice but the piper needed to be paid. If you are religious then you might
think that god or karma or whatever would address the balance but i am an
athiest and i think it is our job to... oh bollocks to it
its sunday night and i am tooo sober
incubus
> Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:02:48 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> Now, let's (just for a second) leave aside questions of morality, and
of
> >> who 'deserves' (sic) to die. Just ask yourself this ... what would you
> >> you rather have ? 43 seconds of terror ? Or three hundred and forty-
> >> seven million of them ?
> >>
> >> My choice is already made.
>
> > dumb it down a bit desi. I am illiterate after all
>
> since LDB claimed 'I love words', and that's all you have to add ?
>
> Pfft ... I'm wasted on you lot ...
LOL. Alright, I will indulge you...
<clears throat>
The work of Desi was an insightful piece that earned respect, not just for
the research in the content but also for the elegance of the wording and the
chivalry of the tongue. Such a piece rightfully deserves to be recited in
theatre by none less than sir John Gilgood.
and to think I never actually read it :-)
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 22:53:06 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 23:04:41 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>>> >> Well then you're a fool. Only a fool would want to be immortal. Are
>>> >> you afraid to die ?
>
>>> > yes
>
>>> Dying is every bit as much a part of life, as living. It awaits us
>>> all. To 'fear' that which cannot, under any circumstances, be avoided,
>>> is (IMHO) silly.
>
>> I know death is the one bit of nature that unifies us all Desi,
>
>Well there's also shitting (or 'shiting', as LDB would spell it) ...
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 22:53:06 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 22
>Message-ID: <slrnam09ai.gks.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:24:10 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:01:34 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> Well then you're a fool. Only a fool would want to be immortal. Are
>>> you afraid to die ?
>
>> yes
>
>Dying is every bit as much a part of life, as living. It awaits us
>all. To 'fear' that which cannot, under any circumstances, be avoided,
>is (IMHO) silly.
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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e!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.
>FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:24:10 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 20
>Message-ID: <slrnam00ja.fuq.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:45:11 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:02:48 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> Now, let's (just for a second) leave aside questions of morality, and of
>>> who 'deserves' (sic) to die. Just ask yourself this ... what would you
>>> you rather have ? 43 seconds of terror ? Or three hundred and forty-
>>> seven million of them ?
>>>
>>> My choice is already made.
>
>> dumb it down a bit desi. I am illiterate after all
>
>Lovely. One of the greatest works of dramatic fiction to hit AADP,
>since LDB claimed 'I love words', and that's all you have to add ?
>
>Pfft ... I'm wasted on you lot ...
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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ot-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:45:11 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 23
>Message-ID: <slrnam01qm.g0t.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:50:29 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:52:21 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>{ snip my marvellous short story }
>
>>> Now, let's (just for a second) leave aside questions of morality, and of
>>> who 'deserves' (sic) to die. Just ask yourself this ... what would you
>>> you rather have ? 43 seconds of terror ? Or three hundred and forty-
>>> seven million of them ?
>>>
>>> My choice is already made.
>
>> that was just one. other deaths are not so quick and besides even though
>> Tiffany died quickly her mother didn't. She suffered on and her father lost
>> the will to live. The murderer killed two completely and destroyed the life
>> of the third. Tiffany's mother will probably never recover.
>
>Oh great ... and deathies claim that it is abolitionists who deny personal
>responsibility ...
>
>The murderer killed Tiffany, and he _certainly_ fucked up the lives of
>her family. However, her father pulled the trigger of his own accord.
>He is solely responsible for his death.
>
>> John Lee Anderson's execution was well deserved and he suffered the way
>> Tiffany's parents had though his eventual death was quick and painless.
>> Justice was done
>
>The word 'justice' is all too often hijacked by those who believe
>that it is to be applied only to the innocent. The innocent 'get
>justice' ... well, no. There can be no justice until the judged are
>treated fairly, humanely, and in accordance with the dignity that is
>their birthright.
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:50:29 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 38
>Message-ID: <slrnam024k.g2a.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
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A Planet Visitor
> >> you afraid to die ?
>
> > yes
>
> all. To 'fear' that which cannot, under any circumstances, be avoided,
> is (IMHO) silly.
>
would have a job holding me down, as the litres of excreta that would be
covering my legs, would make it difficult for them to grab a hold of me,"
if he found himself facing death. What a wimp. And a hypocrite to boot.
PV
> { snip }
>
> --
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 23:04:41 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
> >> >> Well then you're a fool. Only a fool would want to be immortal. Are
> >> >> you afraid to die ?
>
> >> > yes
>
> >> Dying is every bit as much a part of life, as living. It awaits us
> >> all. To 'fear' that which cannot, under any circumstances, be avoided,
> >> is (IMHO) silly.
>
>
>
would be doing, if death was staring you in the face.
PV
> { snip }
>
> --
A Planet Visitor
"incubus" <inc...@hellfire.com> wrote in message news:EUU79.2587$h4.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
>
> "Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
> news:slrnam01qm.g0t.pasde...@lievre.voute.net...
> > Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:02:48 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
> écrit :
> >
> > { snip }
> >
> > >> Now, let's (just for a second) leave aside questions of morality, and
> of
> > >> who 'deserves' (sic) to die. Just ask yourself this ... what would you
> > >> you rather have ? 43 seconds of terror ? Or three hundred and forty-
> > >> seven million of them ?
> > >>
> > >> My choice is already made.
> >
> > > dumb it down a bit desi. I am illiterate after all
> >
> > Lovely. One of the greatest works of dramatic fiction to hit AADP,
> > since LDB claimed 'I love words', and that's all you have to add ?
> >
> > Pfft ... I'm wasted on you lot ...
>
> LOL. Alright, I will indulge you...
>
> <clears throat>
>
> The work of Desi was an insightful piece that earned respect, not just for
> the research in the content but also for the elegance of the wording and the
> chivalry of the tongue. Such a piece rightfully deserves to be recited in
> theatre by none less than sir John Gilgood.
>
> and to think I never actually read it :-)
>
LOL... join the crowd.
PV
incubus
"xganon" <rema...@xganon.com> wrote in message
news:7511b40484ac069d...@xganon.com...
> >John Rennie wrote:As for me, I'm off to the Land of the Free for the
> >next 10 days. New York, New York's a wonderful
> >town, a wonderful townnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!
i hear you never see the sun in new york
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:19:55 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 02:13:36 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip newbie moron's inability to snip }
>
>>> 347,073,424 seconds.
>>>
>>> Now, let's (just for a second) leave aside questions of morality, and of
>>> who 'deserves' (sic) to die. Just ask yourself this ... what would you
>>> you rather have ? 43 seconds of terror ? Or three hundred and forty-
>>> seven million of them ?
>>>
>>> My choice is already made.
>
>> Your 'choice' presumes that you are choosing between being a
>> VICTIM or being a MURDERER. And you have chosen that you would
>> RATHER be a victim.
>
>I should have known that were too many multisyllabic (that means 'big
>words') words, and too few Russian-language 'grunts', would only
>confuse you. As such, despite my request that the matter be considered
>_without_ morality, you have to show your ignorance of both English,
>morality, and philosophy, and nuclear physics. Oh, OK, not nuclear
>physics, but it's so much fun to make an utter fool of you, that I
>get carried away from time to time ...
>
>I was not talking about being a victim ...sorry, a 'VICTIM' (sic),
>or a 'MURDERER' (sic); the role that I would play in the 'final
>act' of my death has no importance. I was talking about the choice
>of being aware of my imminent death. I do not fear death, but do
>not intend to hasten its coming (say, did you ever manage to work out
>how to use the gerund ?). Thus if I were aware of not being able to
>do anything to prevent it, I would prefer that this period last 43
>seconds, rather than three hundred and forty-seven million.
>
>You're a prize fool. Can _anyone_ doubt that, now ?
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:19:55 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 41
>Message-ID: <slrnam2roa.l49.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
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A Planet Visitor
> Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 02:13:36 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip newbie moron's inability to snip }
>
> >>
> >> Now, let's (just for a second) leave aside questions of morality, and of
> >> who 'deserves' (sic) to die. Just ask yourself this ... what would you
> >> you rather have ? 43 seconds of terror ? Or three hundred and forty-
> >> seven million of them ?
> >>
> >> My choice is already made.
>
> > Your 'choice' presumes that you are choosing between being a
> > VICTIM or being a MURDERER. And you have chosen that you would
> > RATHER be a victim.
>
> words') words, and too few Russian-language 'grunts', would only
> confuse you. As such, despite my request that the matter be considered
> _without_ morality, you have to show your ignorance of both English,
> morality, and philosophy, and nuclear physics. Oh, OK, not nuclear
> physics, but it's so much fun to make an utter fool of you, that I
> get carried away from time to time ...
>
<belly laugh on>
This from the guy who called ME 'pseudo-intellectual,'
when I use a word unfamiliar to him. And the words 'morality,'
and 'philosophy's must stick in your throat, you fucking hypocrite.
> I was not talking about being a victim ...sorry, a 'VICTIM' (sic),
> or a 'MURDERER' (sic); the role that I would play in the 'final
> act' of my death has no importance.
Ummm... what a terribly stupid thing to say. You were most
CERTAINLY COMPARING a victim and a murderer. What the
hell is the matter with you?
> I was talking about the choice
> of being aware of my imminent death. I do not fear death,
I think I'm going to pee in my pants -- Desi's words when
faced with his imminent death ---
"Personally, the guards would have a job holding me down, as the
litres of excreta that would be covering my legs, would make it
difficult for them to grab a hold of me"
> but do
> not intend to hasten its coming (say, did you ever manage to work out
> how to use the gerund ?).
Would it matter here? Or are you simply hoping to change the
argument? Remember -- 'quote' is a noun, FDP.
>Thus if I were aware of not being able to
> do anything to prevent it, I would prefer that this period last 43
> seconds, rather than three hundred and forty-seven million.
>
So you'd rather be a victim than see a murderer be executed.
How totally altruistic of you. Unfortunately, also how totally
unbelievable.
> You're a prize fool. Can _anyone_ doubt that, now ?
Oh... now I think my little desipoo is angry? Did widdle PV makes
widdle desipoo angry???
<belly laugh off>
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:45:50 +0000
>
>Le Tue, 20 Aug 2002 07:14:00 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> but do
>>> not intend to hasten its coming (say, did you ever manage to work out
>>> how to use the gerund ?).
>
>> Would it matter here? Or are you simply hoping to change the
>> argument?
>
>Ah, so you didn't.
>
>> Remember -- 'quote' is a noun, FDP.
>
>Just as 'portentious' (sic) is 'correct', I assume ? ROTFLMAO ... _The
>OED_ lists incorrect usage, as well as correct usage, LDB.
>
>Poor LDB ... spanked again ... one could almost feel sorry for him. I
>hear that the black smoke has reached New Mexico ... as well as being
>a national embarrassment, he's now a threat to civil aviation across two-
>thirds of the country. Will they rescind his citizenship, and send him
>back to Russia ..?
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> You're a prize fool. Can _anyone_ doubt that, now ?
>
>> Oh... now I think my little desipoo is angry? Did widdle PV makes
>> widdle desipoo angry???
>
>Again, your Russian - English dictionary is out of date. 'Angry'
>means 'pissing myself laughing'. The answer is yes ... bwaaahahahaa !!!
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!feedme.news.mediaways.net
!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!n
ot-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:45:50 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 39
>Message-ID: <slrnam502e.pal.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
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A Planet Visitor
> Le Tue, 20 Aug 2002 07:14:00 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> not intend to hasten its coming (say, did you ever manage to work out
> >> how to use the gerund ?).
>
> > Would it matter here? Or are you simply hoping to change the
> > argument?
>
>
>
> OED_ lists incorrect usage, as well as correct usage, LDB.
>
in QUOTE n. You really need to get hold of a dictionary, FDP.
> Poor LDB ... spanked again ... one could almost feel sorry for him. I
> hear that the black smoke has reached New Mexico ... as well as being
> a national embarrassment, he's now a threat to civil aviation across two-
> thirds of the country. Will they rescind his citizenship, and send him
> back to Russia ..?
>
> { snip }
>
> >> You're a prize fool. Can _anyone_ doubt that, now ?
>
> > Oh... now I think my little desipoo is angry? Did widdle PV makes
> > widdle desipoo angry???
>
> Again, your Russian - English dictionary is out of date. 'Angry'
> means 'pissing myself laughing'. The answer is yes ... bwaaahahahaa !!!
>
Ah... that ol' animal call to your sheep in the field again. Stop
banging your head on the desk, FDP. And stay off the sauce.
PV
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sun, 18 Aug 2002 02:13:36 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip newbie moron's inability to snip }
>
> >>
> >> Now, let's (just for a second) leave aside questions of morality, and of
> >> who 'deserves' (sic) to die. Just ask yourself this ... what would you
> >> you rather have ? 43 seconds of terror ? Or three hundred and forty-
> >> seven million of them ?
> >>
> >> My choice is already made.
>
> > Your 'choice' presumes that you are choosing between being a
> > VICTIM or being a MURDERER. And you have chosen that you would
> > RATHER be a victim.
>
> words') words,
It's not me who has claimed using 'big words' is pseudo-intellectual.
It was you.
> and too few Russian-language 'grunts', would only
> confuse you. As such, despite my request that the matter be considered
> _without_ morality, you have to show your ignorance of both English,
> morality, and philosophy, and nuclear physics. Oh, OK, not nuclear
> physics, but it's so much fun to make an utter fool of you, that I
> get carried away from time to time ...
>
Yeah, sure.. like pretending there is no difference between a
'victim' and a 'murderer awaiting execution.' You nitwit. and
then you say that such is a discussion without 'morality.' Well,
we all knew you had NONE to begin with, so nothing has
changed. But, oh, you magnificent fool. We are now witness
to the last brick in your towering total body of work. A work
consisting of the most pedantic, bilious, omninescient (look it up),
repugnant, amour propre, hebephrenic, pedestrian, pedagogic,
xenophobic, pernicious, and meaningless assembly of the
most 'mindless drivel' one can imagine. Delivered a cappella
(simply a cacophony of noise, unaccompanied by any instrument of
rational thought). You have thoroughly outdone yourself here.
In a lasting monument to your ignorance.
You have chosen that you would RATHER be a victim then find
your murderer should be executed. Is there any wonder no one
finds you make ANY sense in this group?
> I was not talking about being a victim ...sorry, a 'VICTIM' (sic),
> or a 'MURDERER' (sic);
What a liar... Of course you were. You were talking EXACTLY
about a 'victim' (43 seconds), her NAME was 'Tiffany Jones,' and
you gave her that name as a VICTIM. And you compared that
43 seconds of a VICTIM to a 'convicted murderer awaiting
execution' (347,073,424 seconds), his NAME was 'John Lee
Anderson,' and you gave that name to the MURDERER. You
were comparing them EXACTLY. And you're a damn fool
if you believe anyone believes otherwise. Further you made
the obscene comment of remarking that we could examine
those time differences by "Now, let's (just for a second) leave
aside questions of morality, and of who 'deserves' (sic) to die"
You are the most disgusting person in this group. Presuming
we can set aside morality for even an instant, in MURDER.
The entire crime of murder is BASED on a moral framework.
If we 'leave aside questions of morality,' MURDER suddenly
- for that instant - can be presumed to be JUSTIFIED in that
particular instant.
What's the matter with you? Is this another one I need to add
to my list... such as when you presumed that NONE of the hijackers
in the WTC attack knew they were on a suicide mission?
> the role that I would play in the 'final
> act' of my death has no importance. I was talking about the choice
> of being aware of my imminent death. I do not fear death,
AGAIN!!! Please forgive me if I point out that you are a hypocrite.
Your words when asked about 'facing death' WERE -- "Personally,
the guards would have a job holding me down, as the litres of excreta
that would be covering my legs, would make it difficult for them to grab
a hold of me" Facing death you would not be able to control your
bodily functions which you readily admit. You do not 'fear' death??
Don't make me laugh.
> but do
> not intend to hasten its coming (say, did you ever manage to work out
> how to use the gerund ?).
Say, did you ever manage to get a truthful word out of your
mind, and onto paper?
> Thus if I were aware of not being able to
> do anything to prevent it, I would prefer that this period last 43
> seconds, rather than three hundred and forty-seven million.
>
Hello... you could 'prevent' it by not murdering. You
cannot compare the 'time' of a victim with the 'time'
of a murderer awaiting execution, in any sort of quid
pro quo analysis.
> You're a prize fool. Can _anyone_ doubt that, now ?
>
Pitiful... truly pitiful.. You have been SPANKED so badly here.
And you have the Chutzpah (sorry for the slang) to claim
that I'm the fool, while you deny you were comparing the
43 seconds of a VICTIM to whatever of a convicted murderer
awaiting execution. It is like comparing 43 apples with
347,073,424 oranges. It sounds like a lot of oranges but
it's NOT APPLES.
PV
G EddieA95
>being, and destroy the life that is in him, to turn him into dead
>matter, is an affront to our common humanity, the likes of which have
>not been seen in Europe since 1945.
Hmmm, isn't Bosnia in Europe? What about Russia?
The French cut the heads off "breathing human beings" as recently as 1977.
The English broke the necks of "breathing human beings" in 1965.
G EddieA95
Why???????
I believe immortality would be great.
incubus
"G EddieA95" <gedd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020821010022...@mb-mj.aol.com...
> >>> >> Well then you're a fool. Only a fool would want to be immortal.
>
> Why???????
>
> I believe immortality would be great.
very much so :-)
Jürgen
G EddieA95 schrieb in Nachricht
<20020821010022...@mb-mj.aol.com>...
>>>> >> Well then you're a fool. Only a fool would want to be immortal.
>
>Why???????
>
>I believe immortality would be great.
Immortality would equate zero development, as immortal beings can have no
motivation to evolve. "Why bother to do anything today, as an infinite
number of days are to follow up?"
J.
Jürgen
A Planet Visitor schrieb in Nachricht
<5RE89.350415$XH.78...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
......the
>43 seconds of a VICTIM to whatever of a convicted murderer
>awaiting execution. It is like comparing 43 apples with
>347,073,424 oranges. It sounds like a lot of oranges but
>it's NOT APPLES.
>
You may evaluate the fear of death of a guilty other than that of an
innocent. But as both apples and oranges are for being tasteful fruits by
far not as different as you are implying, just so the oppressive fear caused
by an impending death is of quite similar nature.
J.
incubus
"Jürgen" <K.J.H...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:ak0nu2$p12$04$1...@news.t-online.com...
I don't think it will make any difference. Most people seem to think that
death "won't happen the them today" and they still carry on with their
affairs
>
> J.
>
>
incubus
Jurgen. A small peice of advice for you my friend. Change your translater.
The one you use isn't up to the job
>
> J.
>
>
incubus
and the Spanish garrotted people as late as the late 1970s.
I may be a proponent of the death penalty but I believe that particular
mode of execution was sick to say the least
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:03:31 +0000
>
>Le 21 Aug 2002 05:00:22 GMT, G EddieA95 <gedd...@aol.com> a écrit :
>
>>>>> >> Well then you're a fool. Only a fool would want to be immortal.
>
>> Why???????
>>
>> I believe immortality would be great.
>
>'Quelle horreur'.
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not
-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:03:31 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 15
>Message-ID: <slrnam7p03.ueq.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnam09ai.gks.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
><20020821010022...@mb-mj.aol.com>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:04:11 +0000
>
>Le Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:08:56 +0200, Jürgen <K.J.H...@t-online.de> a écrit
>:
>
>>>>>> >> Well then you're a fool. Only a fool would want to be immortal.
>
>>>Why???????
>>>
>>>I believe immortality would be great.
>
>> Immortality would equate zero development, as immortal beings can have no
>> motivation to evolve. "Why bother to do anything today, as an infinite
>> number of days are to follow up?"
>
><chant>
>We're not worthy ... we're not worthy ...
></chant>
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:04:11 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 21
>Message-ID: <slrnam7p1b.ueq.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnam09ai.gks.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:01:08 +0000
>
>Le 21 Aug 2002 04:55:08 GMT, G EddieA95 <gedd...@aol.com> a écrit :
>
>>> breathing human
>>>being, and destroy the life that is in him, to turn him into dead
>>>matter, is an affront to our common humanity, the likes of which have
>>>not been seen in Europe since 1945.
>
>> Hmmm, isn't Bosnia in Europe? What about Russia?
>
>Regrettably, no. Indeed, perhaps if the floods that are presently
>threatening Germany, had been controlled before they swept across into
>Europe, from the Czech Republic and Poland, then this fair continent
>would have been saved the same fate as the smelly 'auslanders'.
>
>{ snip off-topic banter }
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
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17.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:01:08 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 21
>Message-ID: <slrnam7orj.udp.pasde...@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:26:56 +0000
>
>Le Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:20:52 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>{ snip }
>
>> Jurgen. A small peice of advice for you my friend. Change your translater.
>> The one you use isn't up to the job
>
>Pot ... fucking ... kettle ... black ...
>
>('Wenn die Schwalben fortfliegen, bleiben die Spatzen hier', for
> Jürgen ...)
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.g
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berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: A Hanging - George Orwell
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:26:56 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 17
>Message-ID: <slrnam88dv.107l.pasd...@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <3d5a0...@goliath.newsgroups.com>
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G EddieA95
>
>
No, from a physical-human perspective, it's death that is the 'horror'.
From a spiritual perspective, not so, but it's the former perspective that must
be taken in debating the DP.
A Planet Visitor
> >>being, and destroy the life that is in him, to turn him into dead
> >>matter, is an affront to our common humanity, the likes of which have
> >>not been seen in Europe since 1945.
>
> > Hmmm, isn't Bosnia in Europe? What about Russia?
>
Whether you find it 'regrettably' (sic) or not -- Bosnia is most
certainly in Europe.
> Indeed, perhaps if the floods that are presently
> threatening Germany, had been controlled before they swept across into
> Europe, from the Czech Republic and Poland, then this fair continent
> would have been saved the same fate as the smelly 'auslanders'.
>
<belly laugh on>
As both the Czech Republic and Poland are in Europe as well,
your repulsive comment simply demonstrates the bigotry that I've seen
so often contained in your post. You now contend that a natural
disaster is all the fault of those 'smelly auslanders.' Perhaps you
also believe the Czechs and the Poles are 'undesirables' that must
be 'cleansed' from Europe, as another poster here has remarked.
Sound familiar??
And it is particularly significant that you mentioned the Czech
republic and Poland, since they were the start of another
attempt to 'cleanse' Europe of those 'smelly auslanders.' It
certainly shows that 'you people' will NEVER be able to live
together in harmony. The division is too deep, and the hatred
too intense as you now forcefully demonstrate. Dresden is
under 50 km from the Czech republic border, and under 100
km from the Polish border. Yet in that short distance you
contend our species changes from 'cultured Europeans' to
'smelly auslanders.' One wonders WHO are the TRUE
barbarians here.
<belly laugh off>
PV
> { snip off-topic banter }
>
> --
> Des On The Road |IMMORALLY SMELLING HUMAN #1
A Planet Visitor
be kept in sight. Let me ask you... if the seconds were REVERSED.
And the victim suffered for 347,073,424, while the murderer only
suffered for 43, would you support the DP? Given all of the same flaws
and failures that you harp on over and over? And regardless of your
answer... the real question that hangs there is == is that all that the
DP is about? The time spent suffering?? Or is it ACTUALLY about the
very thing that FDP said we should ignore -- morality -- and the
understanding of the difference of 'right' from 'wrong.'??? Can it be
'right' to murder if the victim suffers for 347,073,424 or for 43 seconds?
Does that change in the seconds change the very principles we develop
in our laws, and how we conduct our lives?
PV
> J.
>
>
>
incubus
translater.
> > The one you use isn't up to the job
>
i don't have a translator. I speak english dictated by my spell checker,
which is a product of microsoft... oh fuck
>
> ('Wenn die Schwalben fortfliegen, bleiben die Spatzen hier', for
> Jürgen ...)
I suggest you get a better one too :-P
>
> --
Jürgen
incubus schrieb in Nachricht ...
point which allows us to live a relatively calm and fearless life. This is
the reason why the death penalty is _EVER_ a torturing affair, it takes away
the necessary lack of knowledge.
As to immortality as total spiritual motionlessness, this thesis of course
stands. Indeed, the evolution of human life is in no way thinkable if
immortality were universe's or life-evolution's principle.
J.
Jürgen
incubus schrieb in Nachricht ...
>
>"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
>news:slrnam88dv.107l.pasd...@lievre.voute.net...
>> Le Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:20:52 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
>écrit :
>>
>> { snip }
>>
>> > Jurgen. A small peice of advice for you my friend. Change your
>translater.
>> > The one you use isn't up to the job
>>
>> Pot ... fucking ... kettle ... black ...
>
>i don't have a translator. I speak english dictated by my spell checker,
>which is a product of microsoft... oh fuck
>
>>
>> ('Wenn die Schwalben fortfliegen, bleiben die Spatzen hier', for
>> Jürgen ...)
>
>I suggest you get a better one too :-P
>
Nope. Desmond's did fine.
J.
BTW, I had to look up "peice of advice", and was not especially successful
:-(
Or is it poet's liberty for keeping the rhyme?
A Planet Visitor
> Le Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:20:52 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> > The one you use isn't up to the job
>
>
> Jürgen ...)
Oh... if only you could quote a German saying that made any sense
in respect to the thread. Let me tell you what is evident in
the latest pretentious display of your ignorance --
Wenn der Esel zu wohl ist, so geht er aufs Eis und bricht ein
Bein.
Now give us a *snigger,* meine kleine Esel.