Question for the Brits ...
Karlos
>
> The UK adopted European Human Rights law recently, if I recall
> correctly, which of course was good news in a country where up
> until that time, British citizens had no rights whatsoever; just
> privileges that the rulers could abrogate at will.
I believe you're referring to the Human Rights Act 1998 however, the
ECHR, has been ratified gradually over the past 50 years or so already.
The Human Rights Act 1998 was intended to incorporate anything that had
been left out and to uphold the commitment of the UK to the judgements
of the European Court of Human Rights. Hence, it would force the UK to
be bound by those judgements. I wouldn't quite go as far as to say that
British citizens had previously had no rights whatsoever prior to the
Human Rights Act 1998. See the case of R v Secretary of State for the
Home Department, ex parte Brind (1990) for more details on this.
> However, after '9/11' (sic), I remember reading somewhere that
> the Blair government enacted emergency legislation, which 'opted
> out' of that legislation.
>
> Could someone clarify this, or confirm that it is the case ?
No, the emergency legislation did not infringe the rights guaranteed by
the ECHR but instead the procedures and rights under the Police and
Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) 1985 regarding detention for a prolongued
period without the warrant from the Magistrate's bench.
>
> PS No, it's not a troll
>
> PPS OK, maybe a little one ... ;-)
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:26:27 +0000
>
>The UK adopted European Human Rights law recently, if I recall
>correctly, which of course was good news in a country where up
>until that time, British citizens had no rights whatsoever; just
>privileges that the rulers could abrogate at will.
>
>However, after '9/11' (sic), I remember reading somewhere that
>the Blair government enacted emergency legislation, which 'opted
>out' of that legislation.
>
>Could someone clarify this, or confirm that it is the case ?
>
>PS No, it's not a troll
>
>PPS OK, maybe a little one ... ;-)
>
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:26:27 +0000
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Desi is afraid of his own words! He can be reached at des...@noos.fr or
des...@zeouane.org.
As everyone knows, only COWARDS forge posts yet don't allow their own to be
archived!
Now Desi, Tell us about the Baltimore County police.
Karlos
> What could be done to stop them ?
>
House of Lords.
Karlos
>
> >
> > What could be done to stop them ?
> >
>
> House of Lords.
Also, the rest of the House of Commons.
Karlos
They only have a majority when the back bench Labour MPs agree with the
government's policies.
Karlos
> House, for one year, if I remember correctly. The following year, the
> legislation goes through.
>
> What happens then ?
They only have power of delay for up to 12 months. The exception is
Finance Bills where they have no power of delay. Under the Parliament
Acts 1911 and 1949 the legislation has to be reintroduced in the House
of Commons at the next session of Parliament for the House of Parliament
to have the Bill approved by the Monarch without the approval of the
House of Lords. Due to the time constraints in the House of Commons and
the expense to the tax payer Bills that have been delayed are not
usually re-introduced.
However, if such a thing did happen then the Queen's Privy council would
be able to pass an Order in Council to uphold the constitutional right
to elections preventing the Bill from being approved by the Monarch
(Royal Assent).
Beyond that, the European Convention on Human Rights has direct effect,
both horizontally and vertically and is binding. The rights regarding
elections and the death penalty in the ECHR will still be applicable as
to such time as the UK government withdraws from the ECHR and repeals
all ratifying legislation.
Beyond even that, the UK is bound by EU law which issued the Human
Rights Directive 1995 which required that all member states and states
requesting membership of the EU must sign up to and ratify the ECHR.
The fact that there are strong economic and political reasons for the UK
to remain in the EU would therefore result in the UK Government not
attempting to breach the ECHR or EU law.
Karlos
> Finance Bills where they have no power of delay. Under the Parliament
> Acts 1911 and 1949 the legislation has to be reintroduced in the House
> of Commons at the next session of Parliament for the House of Parliament
> to have the Bill approved by the Monarch without the approval of the
> House of Lords. Due to the time constraints in the House of Commons and
> the expense to the tax payer Bills that have been delayed are not
> usually re-introduced.
>
> However, if such a thing did happen then the Queen's Privy council would
> be able to pass an Order in Council to uphold the constitutional right
> to elections preventing the Bill from being approved by the Monarch
> (Royal Assent).
>
> Beyond that, the European Convention on Human Rights has direct effect,
> both horizontally and vertically and is binding. The rights regarding
> elections and the death penalty in the ECHR will still be applicable as
> to such time as the UK government withdraws from the ECHR and repeals
> all ratifying legislation.
>
> Beyond even that, the UK is bound by EU law which issued the Human
> Rights Directive 1995 which required that all member states and states
> requesting membership of the EU must sign up to and ratify the ECHR.
>
> The fact that there are strong economic and political reasons for the UK
> to remain in the EU would therefore result in the UK Government not
> attempting to breach the ECHR or EU law.
Beyond even all that, the UK is bound by United Nations resolutions
regarding elections.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:05:50 +0000
>
>Le Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:47:26 +0100, Karlos <thevali...@btinternet.com>
>a écrit :
>
>>> What could be done to stop them ?
>
>> House of Lords.
>
>The House of Lords can only 'stop' any legislation passed by the lower
>House, for one year, if I remember correctly. The following year, the
>legislation goes through.
>
>What happens then ?
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:05:50 +0000
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:06:10 +0000
>
>Le Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:48:41 +0100, Karlos <thevali...@btinternet.com>
>a écrit :
>
>>> > What could be done to stop them ?
>
>>> House of Lords.
>
>> Also, the rest of the House of Commons.
>
>With their majority ? Come off it, matey ... ;-)
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:06:10 +0000
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>Lines: 15
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:13:50 +0000
>
>Le Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:56:22 +0100, Karlos <thevali...@btinternet.com>
>a écrit :
>
>>> The UK adopted European Human Rights law recently, if I recall
>>> correctly, which of course was good news in a country where up
>>> until that time, British citizens had no rights whatsoever; just
>>> privileges that the rulers could abrogate at will.
>
>> I believe you're referring to the Human Rights Act 1998 however, the
>> ECHR, has been ratified gradually over the past 50 years or so already.
>> The Human Rights Act 1998 was intended to incorporate anything that had
>> been left out and to uphold the commitment of the UK to the judgements
>> of the European Court of Human Rights. Hence, it would force the UK to
>> be bound by those judgements. I wouldn't quite go as far as to say that
>> British citizens had previously had no rights whatsoever prior to the
>> Human Rights Act 1998. See the case of R v Secretary of State for the
>> Home Department, ex parte Brind (1990) for more details on this.
>
>Let's say then, that tomorrow, the Blair government decided to abolish
>elections and reimpose the death penalty.
>
>What could be done to stop them ?
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:13:50 +0000
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St.George
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnajd1me.on9.p...@lievre.voute.net...
> >> correctly, which of course was good news in a country where up
> >> until that time, British citizens had no rights whatsoever; just
> >> privileges that the rulers could abrogate at will.
>
> > I believe you're referring to the Human Rights Act 1998 however, the
> > ECHR, has been ratified gradually over the past 50 years or so already.
> > The Human Rights Act 1998 was intended to incorporate anything that had
> > been left out and to uphold the commitment of the UK to the judgements
> > of the European Court of Human Rights. Hence, it would force the UK to
> > be bound by those judgements. I wouldn't quite go as far as to say that
> > British citizens had previously had no rights whatsoever prior to the
> > Human Rights Act 1998. See the case of R v Secretary of State for the
> > Home Department, ex parte Brind (1990) for more details on this.
>
> elections and reimpose the death penalty.
>
> What could be done to stop them ?
The armed forces would frogmarch him out of 10 Downing Street and off to the
Tower.
Karlos
> Tower.
Hee hee, put thumb screws on him too!
On a serious note, I forgot to mention that constitutional law governs
elections and therefore, the removal or change of elections must be
approved by the people in a referendum as in all major changes in
constitutional law.
St.George
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnajg6g8.108u.pasd...@lievre.voute.net...
> Le Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:45:13 +0100, Karlos
<thevali...@btinternet.com> a écrit :
>
> >> The armed forces would frogmarch him out of 10 Downing Street and off
to the
> >> Tower.
>
>
> > On a serious note, I forgot to mention that constitutional law governs
> > elections and therefore, the removal or change of elections must be
> > approved by the people in a referendum as in all major changes in
> > constitutional law.
>
The constitutional monarchy, Desmond (and Karlos)
This means that the loyalty of the armed forces is ultimately to Her
Majesty, not to a concept of nation embodied by the individual who is also
their commander-in-chief.
Therefore, there is no conflict for the armed forces if the government
attempts to seriously abuse its position, and this makes it impossible for
the government to get away with doing so - quite unlike the situations in
France or the US.
Karlos
> What 'constitution' ?
>
The British constitution although not written is made up of etiquette
and common law. Just because the British constitution isn't written as
it is in other countries doesn't mean Britain doesn't have one.
Karlos
<snip>
Whatd'ya mention me for?!
A Planet Visitor
"St.George" <ama.99@bt££internet.00com> wrote in message news:ah94eg$kaf$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
It must be terrible to live under the heel of a military dictatorship. :-(
PV
A Planet Visitor
"St.George" <ama.99@bt££internet.00com> wrote in message news:ah9857$38f$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
rabble in line. And what better way to do so, then application of military
might on the very people they are sworn to defend?
PV
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
news:qoYZ8.82379$XH.18...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "St.George" <ama.99@btŁŁinternet.00com> wrote in message
Quite dreadful.
A Planet Visitor
> Le Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:55:34 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> > Let's say then, that tomorrow, the Blair government decided to abolish
> >> > elections and reimpose the death penalty.
> >> >
> >> > What could be done to stop them ?
>
> >> The armed forces would frogmarch him out of 10 Downing Street and off to the
> >> Tower.
>
> > It must be terrible to live under the heel of a military dictatorship. :-(
>
> find myself agreeing with you !
>
There is no 'my thread,' desi. That's your problem... that 'ego' of
your frightens you, like the other words I've mentioned. I believe it
was Cicero (regardless, it is not 'original'), who remarked "At the feast
of the ego, everyone leaves hungry.." So do not presume you have
any special insight to add here, which would dominate the discussion,
and everyone would remark how brilliant and insightful you are, when
most of your comments are recognizable 'meaningless drivel.' Take
it backchannel if you expect privacy. And I'm actually not trying to be
rude to you here. The fact is you're just insignificant to both me,
and this present argument, since you have nothing exceptional to offer.
PV
> --
> Des On The Road |PV'S OUT OF HIS KILL FILE
|PV'S OUT OF HIS KILL FILE
|GOD'S SHAKING HIS HEAD
|THE WORLD SUCKS
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:08:44 +0000
>
>Le Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:55:34 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> > Let's say then, that tomorrow, the Blair government decided to abolish
>>> > elections and reimpose the death penalty.
>>> >
>>> > What could be done to stop them ?
>
>>> The armed forces would frogmarch him out of 10 Downing Street and off to
>the
>>> Tower.
>
>> It must be terrible to live under the heel of a military dictatorship. :-(
>
>Oi, PV, fuck off ! This is my thread, and the last thing I want is to
>find myself agreeing with you !
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:08:44 +0000
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:02:36 +0000
>
>Le Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:28:00 +0100, Karlos <thevali...@btinternet.com>
>a écrit :
>
>Which is akin to saying that France has a monarchy, as the Constitution
>of the Fifth Republic is often credited with creating a 'Presidential
>Monarchy'.
>
>However, that doesn't change the fact that should the UK government decide
>to abrogate basic 'rights' enjoyed by their citizens, the only recourse
>open to the citizen, is to _hope_ that the monarch will call upon the
>armed forces.
>
>And you call that 'democratic' ?
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:02:36 +0000
>Organization: None
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:20:29 +0000
>
>Le Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:02:36 +0000, Desmond Coughlan
><pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> However, that doesn't change the fact that should the UK government decide
>> to abrogate basic 'rights' enjoyed by their citizens, the only recourse
>> open to the citizen, is to _hope_ that the monarch will call upon the
>> armed forces.
>>
>> And you call that 'democratic' ?
>
>Then of course, we have the (purely hypothetical, but forgive me, this
>hotel room is boring me to fuck) situation where a political leader
>gets himself elected on a manifesto promise to abolish the monarchy.
>
>Faced with the prospect of finding herself in a semi in Milton Keynes,
>drawing income support, or having to (God forbid!) work for a living,
>the Queen calls on the army to 'frogmarch' the Prime Minister off to
>the Tower.
>
>Thus the people find the democratic expression of their desire to see
>an end to the monarchy, thwarted.
>
>And you call _that_ 'democratic' ?
>
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:20:29 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 31
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:07:11 +0000
>
>Le Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:36:23 +0000 (UTC), St.George
><ama.99@btŁŁinternet.00com> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> What 'constitution' ?
>
>> The constitutional monarchy, Desmond (and Karlos)
>>
>> This means that the loyalty of the armed forces is ultimately to Her
>> Majesty, not to a concept of nation embodied by the individual who is also
>> their commander-in-chief.
>>
>> Therefore, there is no conflict for the armed forces if the government
>> attempts to seriously abuse its position, and this makes it impossible for
>> the government to get away with doing so - quite unlike the situations in
>> France or the US.
>
>Always assuming, of course, that the monarch would want to intervene, and
>act against the government. This is by no means sure. If the government
>decided to abolish elections, and if for whatever reason, the monarch
>decided to either support this move, or not oppose it, then the British
>subjects would find their democratic voice 'removed', and they could not
>do a thing about it.
>
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:07:11 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 30
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:54:16 +0000
>
>Le Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:45:13 +0100, Karlos <thevali...@btinternet.com>
>a écrit :
>
>>> The armed forces would frogmarch him out of 10 Downing Street and off to
>the
>>> Tower.
>
>{ snip }
>
>> On a serious note, I forgot to mention that constitutional law governs
>> elections and therefore, the removal or change of elections must be
>> approved by the people in a referendum as in all major changes in
>> constitutional law.
>
>What 'constitution' ?
>
>--
>Des On The Road |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespam_de...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:54:16 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 19
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incubus
"Karlos" <thevali...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3D35A1B6...@btinternet.com...
> Desmond Coughlan wrote:
> >
> > The UK adopted European Human Rights law recently, if I recall
> > correctly, which of course was good news in a country where up
> > until that time, British citizens had no rights whatsoever; just
> > privileges that the rulers could abrogate at will.
In what country do brits have no rights??
John Rennie
> Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:16:43 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> >> > The UK adopted European Human Rights law recently, if I recall
> >> > correctly, which of course was good news in a country where up
> >> > until that time, British citizens had no rights whatsoever; just
> >> > privileges that the rulers could abrogate at will.
>
> > In what country do brits have no rights??
>
> you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
> off to live in a trailer in Florida, if you don't) is that which cannot
> be abrogated at the whim of the government.
>
> For example, in the United Kingdom, you fondly imagine that you have
> the 'right' to free and open elections. Alas, no. You enjoy the
> _privilege_ of electing your leaders, but if tomorrow, the governement
> decided to abolish elections, the _only_ recourse open to the
> British subject, would be to _hope_ that Her Britannic Majesty ask
> the armed forces to intervene.
>
> Calling this 'democratic' is laughable ...
I for one don't call it democratic, so what's your point?
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
incubus
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnajism8.2gd.p...@lievre.voute.net...
> Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:16:43 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> >> > correctly, which of course was good news in a country where up
> >> > until that time, British citizens had no rights whatsoever; just
> >> > privileges that the rulers could abrogate at will.
>
> > In what country do brits have no rights??
>
> you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
> off to live in a trailer in Florida, if you don't)
Great. I look forward to receiving the air fare
>is that which cannot
> be abrogated at the whim of the government.
>
> For example, in the United Kingdom, you fondly imagine that you have
> the 'right' to free and open elections. Alas, no. You enjoy the
> _privilege_ of electing your leaders, but if tomorrow, the governement
> decided to abolish elections, the _only_ recourse open to the
> British subject, would be to _hope_ that Her Britannic Majesty ask
> the armed forces to intervene.
>
> Calling this 'democratic' is laughable ...
Damn. I do agree with you. That's my free trip to the states out of the
window
A Planet Visitor
"Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
news:slrnajism8.2gd.p...@lievre.voute.net...
> Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:16:43 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
> >> > correctly, which of course was good news in a country where up
> >> > until that time, British citizens had no rights whatsoever; just
> >> > privileges that the rulers could abrogate at will.
>
> > In what country do brits have no rights??
>
> you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
> be abrogated at the whim of the government.
>
government provides, they can certainly take away. The
government cannot abrogate what it doesn't give, of course.
But that simply implies one is left with NOTHING in respect
to 'rights,' if presuming that it hasn't come from the government
to begin with. Because they ALL comes from the government.
Nature provides no 'rights.' Only man does so. Or perhaps
you'd like to explain the 'rights' that exist from nature which
are provided to the starving child in Africa, that are presumably
the same 'rights' that those enjoying comfortable lives in the
industrialized hold. The government cannot abrogate the
'law of gravity,' but 'rights of man' do not exist as a 'law of nature.'
They only exist as 'a law of man.' And those 'laws' can
certainly be abrogated. So, yes, desi... you have the 'right
to gravity,' and no government can 'abrogate' that 'right.'
<rest of laughable nonsense derived from a false axiom clipped>
PV
> --
> Desmond Coughlan |PV'S OUT OF HIS KILL FILE
John Rennie
> Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:10:40 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com>
a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> Calling this 'democratic' is laughable ...
>
> > I for one don't call it democratic, so what's your point?
>
> who believes that the UK is more democratic than France. I don't
> consider a country where the people do not have the right to choose
> their own government, democratic.
>
> You might agree with me, but I'm sure that others don't.
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
But then I don't think France or the USA has a
democratic government. Western Democracy is
a great big con trick, its a better con trick
than that of communist centralised democracy
(which wasn't) but the 'people' do not rule and for
that we must thank our lucky stars.
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:36:31 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> It all depends on how you view a 'right'. My definition (with which
> >> you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
> >> off to live in a trailer in Florida, if you don't)
>
> > Great. I look forward to receiving the air fare
>
>
ROTFLMAO.. Delusions of being 'Tom Cruise.' No one likes you,
however you are. If you didn't keep the corn crib filled, even your wife
would leave you.
<rest of 'mindless drivel' from desi clipped again>
incubus
> Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:36:31 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> It all depends on how you view a 'right'. My definition (with which
> >> you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
> >> off to live in a trailer in Florida, if you don't)
>
> > Great. I look forward to receiving the air fare
>
Gamma rays kicking in are they?
<Dennis' shirt rips to reveal a monster who turns green then throws up>
>
> >>is that which cannot
> >> be abrogated at the whim of the government.
>
> >> For example, in the United Kingdom, you fondly imagine that you have
> >> the 'right' to free and open elections. Alas, no. You enjoy the
> >> _privilege_ of electing your leaders, but if tomorrow, the governement
> >> decided to abolish elections, the _only_ recourse open to the
> >> British subject, would be to _hope_ that Her Britannic Majesty ask
> >> the armed forces to intervene.
> >>
> >> Calling this 'democratic' is laughable ...
>
> > Damn. I do agree with you. That's my free trip to the states out of the
> > window
>
> If you don't stop agreeing with me, it's not the only bloody thing that'll
> be going out the window ...
When you're big enough Deni lad
incubus
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
>
> "Desmond Coughlan" <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> wrote in message
> news:slrnajj9c6.1ggi....@lievre.voute.net...
> > Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:36:31 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
> >
> > { snip }
> >
> > >> It all depends on how you view a 'right'. My definition (with which
> > >> you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
> > >> off to live in a trailer in Florida, if you don't)
> >
> > > Great. I look forward to receiving the air fare
> >
> > incubus, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry ...
> >
> ROTFLMAO.. Delusions of being 'Tom Cruise.' No one likes you,
> however you are. If you didn't keep the corn crib filled, even your wife
> would leave you.
he was being David banner PV
Desmond Coughlan
{ snip }
>> > incubus, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry ...
>> ROTFLMAO.. Delusions of being 'Tom Cruise.' No one likes you,
>> however you are. If you didn't keep the corn crib filled, even your wife
>> would leave you.
> he was being David banner PV
Forget it, man. It was a *whoosh!*, except that he'll claim it wasn't,
because the ANONYMITY (or otherwise) of his 'handle' does not cut to the
TRUTH of what he has to say, and the OBSCENITY present in the post's of
THE GANG only serve to indicate that when he calls into QUESTION the
morality of the DP, especially (but NOT ONLY) in relation to the
square of the HYPOTENUSE, then Apate could ONLY have been trying to
indicate, through the ONLY medium available to her, i.e. the feral
APOSTROPHE, that this was nothing other than and let me be VERY clear
in case THE GANG should doubt his word as if he had one, that this was
clearly A LIE BY DESI, and that when CICERO made his BLATANTLY
oblique insult, that no one took it seriously, because the AT0MIC
weight of hydrogen had not yet been DETERMINED to be in EXCESS of 7.5
raised to the tenth power, and that EVEN IF a comparable SIN wave had been
able to be PLOTTED, there can be no doubt that this was AN ATTEMPT TO RAPE !!
In other words, he doesn't have a clue.
John Rennie
> Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:21:43 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com>
a écrit :
>
snip
> >> >> Calling this 'democratic' is laughable ...
>
> >> > I for one don't call it democratic, so what's your point?
>
> >> I originally started this thread, after a discussion with a friend
> >> who believes that the UK is more democratic than France. I don't
> >> consider a country where the people do not have the right to choose
> >> their own government, democratic.
> >>
> >> You might agree with me, but I'm sure that others don't.
>
> > But then I don't think France or the USA has a
> > democratic government. Western Democracy is
> > a great big con trick, its a better con trick
> > than that of communist centralised democracy
> > (which wasn't) but the 'people' do not rule and for
> > that we must thank our lucky stars.
>
> Agreed, agreed, agreed ... however, you flamed me a few weeks back,
> for expressing a similar sentiment. :-)
It might have been similar but it wasn't the same. Another has
flamed me a number of times for saying that 'the people' are not
fit to rule and therefore elect representatives to do it for them.
>
> Everything is relative, of course, and I believe that whilst no
> system should ever have the people 'ruling', the degree to which
> a society can be termed 'democratic' (remember, I said that everything
> is relative), is the degree of control which the citizenry can exercise
> over the government.
Every five years with very little choice presented by
competing parties. As I say it's a con trick.
>
> In this respect, both France and the United States, are _muuuuuch_ more
> democratic than the United Kingdom, where the élite are served by the
> people, and not the other way around.
Much more democratic when they are not democratic at all! Moonshine.
John Rennie
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
news:d7i_8.73611$DS.19...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> news:slrnajj9c6.1ggi....@lievre.voute.net...
> > Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:36:31 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a
écrit :
> >
> > { snip }
> >
> > >> It all depends on how you view a 'right'. My definition (with which
> > >> you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
> > >> off to live in a trailer in Florida, if you don't)
> >
> > > Great. I look forward to receiving the air fare
> >
> > incubus, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry ...
> >
> ROTFLMAO.. Delusions of being 'Tom Cruise.'
Desmond is about the size of Clint Eastwood. Little Tom
would be dwarfed.
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:46:53 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:10:40 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> Calling this 'democratic' is laughable ...
>
>> I for one don't call it democratic, so what's your point?
>
>I originally started this thread, after a discussion with a friend
>who believes that the UK is more democratic than France. I don't
>consider a country where the people do not have the right to choose
>their own government, democratic.
>
>You might agree with me, but I'm sure that others don't.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:46:53 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 20
>Message-ID: <slrnajj1fd.1e19....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnajb6lj.1tfm....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:14:25 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:05:41 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> > incubus, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry ...
>
>>> ROTFLMAO.. Delusions of being 'Tom Cruise.'
>
>> Desmond is about the size of Clint Eastwood. Little Tom
>> would be dwarfed.
>
>Careful, John ... you'll be tagged as my 'assistant' again.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:14:25 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 18
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>References: <slrnajb6lj.1tfm....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:48:41 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:39:05 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>>> >> It all depends on how you view a 'right'. My definition (with which
>>> >> you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
>>> >> off to live in a trailer in Florida, if you don't)
>
>>> > Great. I look forward to receiving the air fare
>
>>> incubus, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry ...
>
>> ROTFLMAO.. Delusions of being 'Tom Cruise.'
>
>LOL ... didn't they have 'The Incredible Hulk' in Korea when you
>were a 'nipper', PV ?
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:48:41 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 22
>Message-ID: <slrnajjc49.1gnl....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnajb6lj.1tfm....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:24:46 +0000
>
>Meant to add ...
>
>Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:18:07 +0000, Desmond Coughlan
><pasdespa...@zeouane.org> a écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> ROTFLMAO -- 'rights' COME from 'the government.'
>
>> No, you oaf, rights come from the people, and the government only
>> serves to codify them into law. This is what I meant when I compared
>> the system in France and the United States, to that in Great Britain.
>
>Whether the government codifies the laws the way that the citizen wants,
>is another matter. In such a case, the point that I was making, comes
>into play : how much power does the citizen have, to _change_ his
>government ? In the UK, the government _allows_ the citizen to vote
>in elections. It is thus a privilege. In France and the United States,
>the government cannot (without things going severely pear-shaped) prevent
>the citizen from voting in elections.
>
>That is the difference. That is why the UK is not a democratic country,
>and why the United States and France, are.
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
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de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:24:46 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 30
>Message-ID: <slrnajje7t.1gr6....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:01:42 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:36:31 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> It all depends on how you view a 'right'. My definition (with which
>>> you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
>>> off to live in a trailer in Florida, if you don't)
>
>> Great. I look forward to receiving the air fare
>
>incubus, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry ...
>
>>>is that which cannot
>>> be abrogated at the whim of the government.
>
>>> For example, in the United Kingdom, you fondly imagine that you have
>>> the 'right' to free and open elections. Alas, no. You enjoy the
>>> _privilege_ of electing your leaders, but if tomorrow, the governement
>>> decided to abolish elections, the _only_ recourse open to the
>>> British subject, would be to _hope_ that Her Britannic Majesty ask
>>> the armed forces to intervene.
>>>
>>> Calling this 'democratic' is laughable ...
>
>> Damn. I do agree with you. That's my free trip to the states out of the
>> window
>
>If you don't stop agreeing with me, it's not the only bloody thing that'll
>be going out the window ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:01:42 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 35
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:25:12 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:16:43 +0100, incubus <inc...@hellfire.com> a écrit :
>
>
>>> > The UK adopted European Human Rights law recently, if I recall
>>> > correctly, which of course was good news in a country where up
>>> > until that time, British citizens had no rights whatsoever; just
>>> > privileges that the rulers could abrogate at will.
>
>> In what country do brits have no rights??
>
>It all depends on how you view a 'right'. My definition (with which
>you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
>off to live in a trailer in Florida, if you don't) is that which cannot
>be abrogated at the whim of the government.
>
>For example, in the United Kingdom, you fondly imagine that you have
>the 'right' to free and open elections. Alas, no. You enjoy the
>_privilege_ of electing your leaders, but if tomorrow, the governement
>decided to abolish elections, the _only_ recourse open to the
>British subject, would be to _hope_ that Her Britannic Majesty ask
>the armed forces to intervene.
>
>Calling this 'democratic' is laughable ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:25:12 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 28
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:18:07 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:02:55 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>>> >> > The UK adopted European Human Rights law recently, if I recall
>>> >> > correctly, which of course was good news in a country where up
>>> >> > until that time, British citizens had no rights whatsoever; just
>>> >> > privileges that the rulers could abrogate at will.
>
>>> > In what country do brits have no rights??
>
>>> It all depends on how you view a 'right'. My definition (with which
>>> you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
>>> off to live in a trailer in Florida, if you don't) is that which cannot
>>> be abrogated at the whim of the government.
>
>> ROTFLMAO -- 'rights' COME from 'the government.'
>
>No, you oaf, rights come from the people, and the government only
>serves to codify them into law. This is what I meant when I compared
>the system in France and the United States, to that in Great Britain.
>
>If you weren't spending so much time trying to figure out how the
>'silver birds' stayed up in the sky, you might try to overcome your
>painfully obvious failings in education.
>
>{ snip }
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:18:07 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 31
>Message-ID: <slrnajjdrf.1gr6....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 21:44:40 +0000
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 21:44:40 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 34
>Message-ID: <slrnajjme7.1hkt....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnajb6lj.1tfm....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:30:35 +0000
>
>Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:21:43 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>>> >> Calling this 'democratic' is laughable ...
>
>>> > I for one don't call it democratic, so what's your point?
>
>>> I originally started this thread, after a discussion with a friend
>>> who believes that the UK is more democratic than France. I don't
>>> consider a country where the people do not have the right to choose
>>> their own government, democratic.
>>>
>>> You might agree with me, but I'm sure that others don't.
>
>> But then I don't think France or the USA has a
>> democratic government. Western Democracy is
>> a great big con trick, its a better con trick
>> than that of communist centralised democracy
>> (which wasn't) but the 'people' do not rule and for
>> that we must thank our lucky stars.
>
>Agreed, agreed, agreed ... however, you flamed me a few weeks back,
>for expressing a similar sentiment. :-)
>
>Everything is relative, of course, and I believe that whilst no
>system should ever have the people 'ruling', the degree to which
>a society can be termed 'democratic' (remember, I said that everything
>is relative), is the degree of control which the citizenry can exercise
>over the government.
>
>In this respect, both France and the United States, are _muuuuuch_ more
>democratic than the United Kingdom, where the élite are served by the
>people, and not the other way around.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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p212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:30:35 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 38
>Message-ID: <slrnajjb2a.1gnl....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnajb6lj.1tfm....@lievre.voute.net>
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A Planet Visitor
Sounds like desi being 'pseudo-intellectual.'
Rationality in Desi's posts - Hiroshima August 1945.
Anyone other than me see the distinct resemblance?
Anyone still wonder why I refer to them as 'mindless drivel'???
desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 --> <plink>
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:02:55 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> >> >> > The UK adopted European Human Rights law recently, if I recall
> >> >> > correctly, which of course was good news in a country where up
> >> >> > until that time, British citizens had no rights whatsoever; just
> >> >> > privileges that the rulers could abrogate at will.
>
> >> > In what country do brits have no rights??
>
> >> It all depends on how you view a 'right'. My definition (with which
> >> you're not obliged to agree, but I'll call you a bastard and send you
> >> off to live in a trailer in Florida, if you don't) is that which cannot
> >> be abrogated at the whim of the government.
>
> > ROTFLMAO -- 'rights' COME from 'the government.'
>
> serves to codify them into law. This is what I meant when I compared
> the system in France and the United States, to that in Great Britain.
>
go along. Individual people cannot provide 'rights.' That's a form of vigilante
thinking. Since it presumes I can give you the 'right' to kill another. Of
course, you oaf... once you refer to 'the people' in the collective sense,
their 'rights,' are derived from the governments that exercise authority
over the subjects (citizens), which are this 'collection' of people. No one
person decides 'rights,' nor can a collection decide 'rights' unless it is
governed. Even the Crips and the Bloods know this. These governments,
as you say, codify it into law. But that law can be as easily changed as
it was codified. There is nothing that cannot be abrogated by the government,
even if it has been written into law. My point is that there is NOTHING
eternal about any 'right' or any 'law.' Now if you define 'whim' as meaning
it cannot be done in a trivial manner, of course not. Except under
some extreme forms of government. But if you imply it CANNOT
be done, that's not true. Thus, 'rights' don't exist in a sense of
'an absolute right.' Nor does the law come from 'the people'
in the sense of 'must come' or 'the entire collection,' since much
law comes from those we appoint to make law, and the law they
make comes from THEM.
> If you weren't spending so much time trying to figure out how the
> 'silver birds' stayed up in the sky, you might try to overcome your
> painfully obvious failings in education.
Sure... that's why you call things you don't understand
'pseudo-intellectual.' But that's cool... You've shown yourself to
be bi-illiterate. Ignorant in two languages (I love it). And I think
every time you say 'silver bird' I'll say 'bi-illiterate.'
>
> { snip }
>
desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #1 (he tried... and failed) --> <plink>
incubus
well that's cleared that up. (i think) :-)
incubus
"A Planet Visitor" <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> wrote in message
If you two were doing this just for fun i would hate to see it if you really
hated each others :-)
John Rennie
> Le Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:05:41 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com>
a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> > incubus, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry
...
>
> >> ROTFLMAO.. Delusions of being 'Tom Cruise.'
>
> > Desmond is about the size of Clint Eastwood. Little Tom
> > would be dwarfed.
>
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
It's either that or being dubbed a PV
sycophant.
John Rennie
> Le Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:23:36 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com>
a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> Careful, John ... you'll be tagged as my 'assistant' again.
>
> > sycophant.
>
>
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
Neither you or PV know the meaning of the word.
A Planet Visitor
> Le Sun, 21 Jul 2002 03:47:49 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> > he was being David banner PV
>
> >> Forget it, man. It was a *whoosh!*, except that he'll claim it wasn't,
> >> because the ANONYMITY (or otherwise) of his 'handle' does not cut to the
> >> TRUTH of what he has to say, and the OBSCENITY present in the post's of
> >> THE GANG only serve to indicate that when he calls into QUESTION the
> >> morality of the DP, especially (but NOT ONLY) in relation to the
> >> square of the HYPOTENUSE, then Apate could ONLY have been trying to
> >> indicate, through the ONLY medium available to her, i.e. the feral
> >> APOSTROPHE, that this was nothing other than and let me be VERY clear
> >> in case THE GANG should doubt his word as if he had one, that this was
> >> clearly A LIE BY DESI, and that when CICERO made his BLATANTLY
> >> oblique insult, that no one took it seriously, because the AT0MIC
> >> weight of hydrogen had not yet been DETERMINED to be in EXCESS of 7.5
> >> raised to the tenth power, and that EVEN IF a comparable SIN wave had been
> >> able to be PLOTTED, there can be no doubt that this was AN ATTEMPT TO RAPE !!
> >>
> >> In other words, he doesn't have a clue.
>
> > Sounds like desi being 'pseudo-intellectual.'
>
>
> No, it was Desmond taking the piss out of you again. The 'don't make
> me angry' quip was a *whoosh!!*, and even incubus pointed it out to you.
> The above paragraph was a parody on the verbose, meaningless crap that
> you are only too well known to post. 'square of the hypotenuse', anyone ?
> How about, 'atomic weight of hydrogen ... in excess of 7.5 raised to the
> tenth power' ? 'A sin wave' ?
>
> LOL ... are you really so dense that you don't get it ?
>
> 'sin wave ...' LOL ...
>
> > Rationality in Desi's posts - Hiroshima August 1945.
>
>
> > Anyone other than me see the distinct resemblance?
>
>
> > Anyone still wonder why I refer to them as 'mindless drivel'???
>
>
> > desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 --> <plink>
>
> his butt kicked'.
>
Through all the 'mindless drivel' that desi now provides (which I'm afraid
nothing short of an exorcism could help), one thing stands clear, and true
and undeniable -- Desi hates victims. He hates the Mother's of victims.
He hate them with a ferocious, white-hot., blazing intensity. The victims
are not those murdered, but those who the state would execute. There
are no individual murderers in desi's world... only the State can murder. And
the Mother of the son, who is no longer considered murdered in desi's
topsy-turvy world, has no right to grieve -- since that makes her perverse,
and makes her the thing that desi hates (and fears) the most -- a 'deathie.'
Arrrgggg... and into desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 -- <plink>
PV
> --
> Desmond Coughlan |EVEN SATAN KNOWS
|AND LIFTS HIS BROW IN WONDER AT
|THE EVIL DESI SHOWS
A Planet Visitor
>
> > sycophant.
>
>
Desi's worst nightmare!!!
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:27:21 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:23:36 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> Careful, John ... you'll be tagged as my 'assistant' again.
>
>> It's either that or being dubbed a PV
>> sycophant.
>
>There's always Option C ... impartiality.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
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.3!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:27:21 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 16
>Message-ID: <slrnajla58.1k1l....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 23:35:38 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:06:06 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> Through all the 'mindless drivel' that desi now provides (which I'm afraid
>> nothing short of an exorcism could help), one thing stands clear, and true
>> and undeniable -- Desi hates victims. He hates the Mother's of victims.
>> He hate them with a ferocious, white-hot., blazing intensity. The victims
>> are not those murdered, but those who the state would execute. There
>> are no individual murderers in desi's world... only the State can murder.
>And
>> the Mother of the son, who is no longer considered murdered in desi's
>> topsy-turvy world, has no right to grieve -- since that makes her
>perverse,
>> and makes her the thing that desi hates (and fears) the most -- a
>'deathie.'
>>
>> Arrrgggg... and into desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 -- <plink>
>
>Are you masturbating when you write the above, or are you just a 'natural'
>wanker ?
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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in.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 23:35:38 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 24
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:56:33 +0000
>
>Le Sun, 21 Jul 2002 03:47:49 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>> desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 --> <plink>
>
>As Confucius say, 'he who post rote responses to usenet articles, had
>his butt kicked'.
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
>Path:
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lin.de!e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:56:33 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 60
>Message-ID: <slrnajktq1.1i2r....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnajb6lj.1tfm....@lievre.voute.net>
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><slrnajjme7.1hkt....@lievre.voute.net>
><F9q_8.74322$DS.20...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
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>NNTP-Posting-Host: e117.dhcp212-198-68.noos.fr (212.198.68.117)
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A Planet Visitor
> Le Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:06:06 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> > nothing short of an exorcism could help), one thing stands clear, and true
> > and undeniable -- Desi hates victims. He hates the Mother's of victims.
> > He hate them with a ferocious, white-hot., blazing intensity. The victims
> > are not those murdered, but those who the state would execute. There
> > are no individual murderers in desi's world... only the State can murder. And
> > the Mother of the son, who is no longer considered murdered in desi's
> > topsy-turvy world, has no right to grieve -- since that makes her perverse,
> > and makes her the thing that desi hates (and fears) the most -- a 'deathie.'
> >
> > Arrrgggg... and into desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 -- <plink>
>
> wanker ?
>
No, sport... I leave that for you... The 'Wanking Giant,' I believe you found
yourself named. I simply call them the way I see them. BTW -- I find
myself, and my wife does as well, disgusted by the behavior off the
'fans' in the Tour de France, since they shout "Doo PAY," "Doo PAY,"
(Drugs... Drugs), at Armstrong, who has NEVER failed a drug test,
while the Festina team, led by the popular Virenque, was thrown out
of the 1998 tour for drug possession. Rather uncivilized behavior, if
you ask me. Their manners have gone totally down the toilet since
1 Jun. Any possibility it is the neo-French influence?
into desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 with you -- <plink>
Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:01:39 +0000
>
>Le Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:11:35 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>>> >> Careful, John ... you'll be tagged as my 'assistant' again.
>
>>> > It's either that or being dubbed a PV
>>> > sycophant.
>
>>> There's always Option C ... that PV would post something intelligent.
>
>> Desi's worst nightmare!!!
>
>Yep ... 'hasn't happened yet, though ...
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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noos.FR!not-for-mail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:01:39 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 18
>Message-ID: <slrnajoi43.1rs4....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnajb6lj.1tfm....@lievre.voute.net>
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Dr. Dolly Coughlan
Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org> writes:
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:22:33 +0000
>
>Le Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:54:15 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
>écrit :
>
>{ snip }
>
>>> Are you masturbating when you write the above, or are you just a 'natural'
>>> wanker ?
>
>> No, sport... I leave that for you... The 'Wanking Giant,' I believe
>> you found yourself named.
>
>By you. Which is like being called 'an idiot' by a Down's Syndrome
>sufferer ... heh ...
>
>> I simply call them the way I see them. BTW -- I find
>> myself, and my wife does as well, disgusted by the behavior off the
>> 'fans' in the Tour de France, since they shout "Doo PAY," "Doo PAY,"
>
>'doo pay' ?
>
>Is this supposed to mean something in French ?
>
>> (Drugs... Drugs),
>
>'drugs' is 'drogue' in French. Wipe the spittle off your mouth, stop
>pointing at the 'silver bird', and tell us what you mean, you old
>semi-literate halfwit.
>
>>/dev/null
>
>--
>Desmond Coughlan |CUNT#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38
>Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48 ANORAK#11
>desmond @ zeouane.org
>http: // www . zeouane . org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------- Headers --------------------
>
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>ail
>From: Desmond Coughlan <pasdespa...@zeouane.org>
>Newsgroups: alt.activism.death-penalty
>Subject: Re: Question for the Brits ...
>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:22:33 +0000
>Organization: None
>Lines: 34
>Message-ID: <slrnajomrp.1sbn....@lievre.voute.net>
>References: <slrnajb6lj.1tfm....@lievre.voute.net>
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A Planet Visitor
> Le Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:11:35 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> >> >> Careful, John ... you'll be tagged as my 'assistant' again.
>
> >> > It's either that or being dubbed a PV
> >> > sycophant.
>
>
> > Desi's worst nightmare!!!
>
> Yep ... 'hasn't happened yet, though ...
>
Addition new meaning to the phrase 'None so blind.. as those who cannot
see.' Perhaps you'd like to see your Bin #3... the one holding your posts
which contain more than 'mindless drivel?' It's empty, you know. Turn it
upside down... bang on it's bottom... nothing but dust. Now. bins #1 and
#2... they're full as can be... and huge meatflies are feasting on the 'mindless
drivel' you've written that's ended up there.
But that's probably the reason you're obsessing so. So remind us
again of how you called the Mother of a just murdered child -- perverse?
I can guarantee that I'm obsessing about that bloodthirsty, and
sickening comment of yours. Do you kick dogs because they whine in
pain, as you 'morally' kicked her, as well??
[DISCLAIMER -- PV hereby disclaims all responsibility for any
manifestation of the deterioration of desi's mental condition, the
decline of his ego, and/or the disintegration of his 'intellect.']
Desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 again -- <plink>
A Planet Visitor
> Le Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:54:15 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a écrit :
>
> { snip }
>
> >> wanker ?
>
> > No, sport... I leave that for you... The 'Wanking Giant,' I believe
> > you found yourself named.
>
> sufferer ... heh ...
>
the 'mindless drivel,' I talk about coming from desi. Do you kick
'them,' when they wait too long at a pedestrian crosswalk as well?
> > I simply call them the way I see them. BTW -- I find
> > myself, and my wife does as well, disgusted by the behavior off the
> > 'fans' in the Tour de France, since they shout "Doo PAY," "Doo PAY,"
>
> 'doo pay' ?
>
> Is this supposed to mean something in French ?
>
> > (Drugs... Drugs),
>
> 'drugs' is 'drogue' in French. Wipe the spittle off your mouth, stop
> pointing at the 'silver bird', and tell us what you mean, you old
> semi-literate halfwit.
>
I know full well what 'drugs' are in French.. but that is NOT what
they are shouting, you moron. What they shouted is NOT
French... so I reported what they MEANT. Which is exactly
what you ASKED for. The report was on the newswire, and it
would have been silly to put it in the correct sound, because the
'correct sound' is NOT what they were shouting. Again, I see
you as bi-illiterate... ignorant in TWO languages. They were
bastardizing (you MUST know what THAT is) the French word
for 'drug,' by a moronic yelling meant to imply 'dope,' in the sense
of 'drugs,' I simply put it into what they MEANT. Again.. isn't
that what you asked?
Actually, the reporters got it screwed up as well, since they wrote
it that way yesterday, and in another report today, another reporter
said they shouted "Dop_AY! Dop-AY." I only report what I see in
the news. Since I didn't actually HEAR them. Armstrong remarked
after with "Perhaps that's part of the reason the people are so angry
on the climbs." "They would rather have a new winner every year,
a new winner every day, a constant evolution." So, you've simply
proved that you intended to demonstrate some 'pseudo-intellectualism.'
Still suffering from that bi-illiterate inferiority complex. You really
need to stick to 'French Feminist Literature,' where they don't
shout 'Doo Pay, Doo Pay,' or 'Dop_AY, Dop_AY.'
[DISCLAIMER -- PV hereby disclaims all responsibility for any
manifestation of the deterioration of desi's mental condition, the
decline of his ego, and/or the disintegration of his 'intellect.']
desi's 'mindless drivel' bin #2 for his post... <plink>
John Rennie
> Le Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:54:15 GMT, A Planet Visitor <abc...@zbqytr.ykq> a
écrit :
snip
>
> By you. Which is like being called 'an idiot' by a Down's Syndrome
> sufferer ... heh ...
That isn't funny, Desmond. A Down's Syndrome sufferer
is not an idiot and even if s/he were it is not for you to imply
that s/he was.
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:Qsa%8.7176$vN6.3...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
What more can we expect in the way of 'sensitivity' from someone
who has insulted the Mother of a murdered child by calling her
'perverse'? And in his statement that he would immediately
release a proven pedophile murderer, if he had only the choices
of execution or such release. And his 'prayer' for escaped
murderers. Clearly, we have seen the face of 'evil,' here and before...
and his name is 'Desmond.'
PV
A Planet Visitor
> Le Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:45:07 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com> a écrit :
>
> >> By you. Which is like being called 'an idiot' by a Down's Syndrome
> >> sufferer ... heh ...
>
> > That isn't funny, Desmond. A Down's Syndrome sufferer
> > is not an idiot and even if s/he were it is not for you to imply
> > that s/he was.
>
> intelligence ...'
> (_The OED_)
>
> 'idiot ... a stupid person [...] person of extremely
> low intelligence ...'
> (_The OED_)
>
> Having said that ... you're right. It wasn't funny.
>
> PV, I apologise.
>
I will take that in the sense that you mean it.
PV
> --
> Desmond Coughlan
John Rennie
> Le Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:45:07 +0100, John Rennie <j.re...@ntlworld.com>
a écrit :
>
> >> sufferer ... heh ...
>
> > That isn't funny, Desmond. A Down's Syndrome sufferer
> > is not an idiot and even if s/he were it is not for you to imply
> > that s/he was.
>
> intelligence ...'
> (_The OED_)
>
> 'idiot ... a stupid person [...] person of extremely
> low intelligence ...'
> (_The OED_)
>
> Having said that ... you're right. It wasn't funny.
>
> PV, I apologise.
>
> Desmond Coughlan
Diminished intelligence is an awful long way from idiocy.
Down's Syndrome sufferers have been know to pass their
driving tests in the UK and hold licenses. If anyone
has had the pleasure of knowing a sufferer here, s/he will
know that they can be delightful company as well as
being able to hold a simple but reasonable conversation.
A Planet Visitor
"John Rennie" <j.re...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:s_f%8.1311$7h7.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
Desi doesn't 'like' them, because they are not 'sophisticated'
enough to lie, or 'cunning' enough (which desi equates to
'intellectual') to be duplicitous.' The most gratifying feeling in
the world is to feel the 'pure innocence,' that comes from a
radiant smile of coming in last... but trying. There are a
great many values that they hold... which we should wish
that WE hold. I wonder what the murder rate is of those with
Down Syndrome? Anyone ever hear of someone having Down
Syndrome murdering?
PV