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Bishops say rules on gay parents limit freedom of religion
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Usenet Legends -̮̮̃-̃ ̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾ ™ ► ♫♫♫ ◄
Dec 29, 2011, 10:19:37 AM12/29/11
to
'In the name of tolerance, we’re not being tolerated,' says canon
lawyer. How shameful it is to see a reputable children's charity
close rather than be forced to comply with the bleeding heart liberals
and their wicked agendas. ..b&c
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
WASHINGTON — Catholic Charities in Illinois has served for more than
40 years as a major link in the state’s social service network for
poor and neglected children. But now most of the Catholic Charities
affiliates in Illinois are closing down rather than comply with a new
requirement that says they can no longer receive state money if they
turn away same-sex couples as potential foster care and adoptive
parents.
For the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops, the outcome is a prime
example of what they see as an escalating campaign by the government
to trample on their religious freedom while expanding the rights of
gay people. The idea that religious Americans are now the victims of
government-backed persecution is now a frequent theme not just for
Catholic bishops, but also for Republican presidential candidates and
conservative evangelicals.
“In the name of tolerance, we’re not being tolerated,” said Bishop
Thomas J. Paprocki of the Diocese of Springfield, Ill., a civil and
canon lawyer who helped drive the church’s losing battle to retain its
state contracts for foster care and adoption services.
Formidable opponents
The Illinois experience indicates that the bishops face formidable
opponents who also claim to have justice and the Constitution on their
side. They include not only gay rights advocates, but also many
religious believers and churches that support gay equality (some
Catholic legislators among them). They frame the issue as a matter of
civil rights, saying that Catholic Charities was using taxpayer money
to discriminate against same-sex couples.
Tim Kee, a teacher in Marion, Ill., who was turned away by Catholic
Charities three years ago when he and his longtime partner, Rick Wade,
tried to adopt a child, said: “We’re both Catholic, we love our
church, but Catholic Charities closed the door to us. To add insult to
injury, my tax dollars went to provide discrimination against me.”
The bishops are engaged in the religious liberty battle on several
fronts. They have asked the Obama administration to lift a new
requirement that Catholic and other religiously affiliated hospitals,
universities and charity groups cover contraception in their
employees’ health plans. A decision has been expected for weeks now.
At the same time, the bishops are protesting the recent denial of a
federal contract to provide care for victims of sex-trafficking,
saying the decision was anti-Catholic. An official with the Department
of Health and Human Services recently told a hearing on Capitol Hill
that the bishops’ program was rejected because it did not provide the
survivors of sex-trafficking, some of whom are rape victims, with
referrals for abortions or contraceptives.
Advertise | AdChoices
Critics of the church argue that no group has a constitutional right
to a government contract, especially if it refuses to provide required
services.
But Anthony R. Picarello Jr., general counsel and associate general
secretary of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops,
disagreed. “It’s true that the church doesn’t have a First Amendment
right to have a government contract,” he said, “but it does have a
First Amendment right not to be excluded from a contract based on its
religious beliefs.”
The controversy in Illinois began when the state legislature voted in
November 2010 to legalize civil unions for same-sex couples, which the
state’s Catholic bishops lobbied against. The legislation was titled
“The Illinois Religious Freedom Protection and Civil Unions Act,” and
Bishop Paprocki said he was given the impression that it would not
affect state contracts for Catholic Charities and other religious
social services.
Adoption services jettisoned
Bishops in Washington and Massachusetts had already decided to
jettison their Catholic Charities’ adoption services rather than
comply with nondiscrimination laws.
In New York State, religious groups lobbied for specific exemption
language in the same-sex marriage bill. But bishops in Illinois did
not negotiate, Bishop Paprocki said.
“It would have been seen as, We’re going to compromise on the
principle as long as we get our exception. We didn’t want it to be
seen as buying our support,” he said.
Catholic Charities is one of the nation’s most extensive social
service networks, serving more than 10 million poor adults and
children of many faiths across the country. It is made up of local
affiliates that answer to local bishops and dioceses, but much of its
revenue comes from the government. Catholic Charities affiliates
received a total of nearly $2.9 billion a year from the government in
2010, about 62 percent of its annual revenue of $4.67 billion. Only 3
percent came from churches in the diocese (the rest came from in-kind
contributions, investments, program fees and community donations).
In Illinois, Catholic Charities in five of the six state dioceses had
grown dependent on foster care contracts, receiving 60 percent to 92
percent of their revenues from the state, according to affidavits by
the charities’ directors. (Catholic Charities in the Archdiocese of
Chicago pulled out of foster care services in 2007 because of problems
with its insurance provider).
When the contracts came up for renewal in June, the state attorney
general along with the legal staff in the governor’s office and the
Department of Children and Family Services decided that the religious
providers on state contracts would no longer be able to reject same-
sex couples, said Kendall Marlowe, a spokesman for the department.
The Catholic providers offered to refer same-sex couples to other
agencies (as they had been doing for same-sex and unmarried couples),
but that was not acceptable to the state, Mr. Marlowe said. “Separate
but equal was not a sufficient solution on other civil rights issues
in the past either,” he said.
Some decide to fight
Catholic Charities in the Diocese of Rockford decided at that point to
get out of the foster care business. But the bishops in Springfield,
Peoria, Joliet and Belleville decided to fight, filing a lawsuit
against the state.
Taking a completely different tack was the agency affiliated with the
conservative Lutheran Church — Missouri Synod, which like the Catholic
Church does not sanction same-sex relationships. Gene Svebakken,
president and chief executive of the agency, Lutheran Child and Family
Services of Illinois, visited all seven pastoral conferences in his
state and explained that the best option was to compromise and
continue caring for the children.
Advertise | AdChoices
“We’ve been around 140 years, and if we didn’t follow the law we’d go
out of business,” Mr. Svebakken said. “We believe its God- pleasing to
serve these kids, and we know we do a good job.”
In August, Judge John Schmidt, a circuit judge in Sangamon County,
ruled against Catholic Charities, saying, “No citizen has a recognized
legal right to a contract with the government.” He did not address the
religious liberty claims, ruling only that the state did not violate
the church’s property rights.
Three of the dioceses filed an appeal, but in November filed a motion
to dismiss their lawsuit. The Dioceses of Peoria and Belleville are
spinning off their state-financed social services, with the
caseworkers, top executives and foster children all moving to new
nonprofits that will no longer be affiliated with either diocese.
Gary Huelsmann, executive director of Catholic Social Services of
Southern Illinois, in the Belleville Diocese, said the decision was
excruciating for everyone.
“We have 600 children abused and neglected in an area where there are
hardly any providers,” he said. “Us going out of business would have
been detrimental to these children, and that’s a sin, too.”
The work will be carried on, but the Catholic Church’s seminal,
historic connection with it has been severed, noted Mr. Marlowe, the
spokesman for the state’s child welfare agency. “The child welfare
system that Catholic Charities helped build,” he said, “is now strong
enough to survive their departure.”
lawyer. How shameful it is to see a reputable children's charity
close rather than be forced to comply with the bleeding heart liberals
and their wicked agendas. ..b&c
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
WASHINGTON — Catholic Charities in Illinois has served for more than
40 years as a major link in the state’s social service network for
poor and neglected children. But now most of the Catholic Charities
affiliates in Illinois are closing down rather than comply with a new
requirement that says they can no longer receive state money if they
turn away same-sex couples as potential foster care and adoptive
parents.
For the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops, the outcome is a prime
example of what they see as an escalating campaign by the government
to trample on their religious freedom while expanding the rights of
gay people. The idea that religious Americans are now the victims of
government-backed persecution is now a frequent theme not just for
Catholic bishops, but also for Republican presidential candidates and
conservative evangelicals.
“In the name of tolerance, we’re not being tolerated,” said Bishop
Thomas J. Paprocki of the Diocese of Springfield, Ill., a civil and
canon lawyer who helped drive the church’s losing battle to retain its
state contracts for foster care and adoption services.
Formidable opponents
The Illinois experience indicates that the bishops face formidable
opponents who also claim to have justice and the Constitution on their
side. They include not only gay rights advocates, but also many
religious believers and churches that support gay equality (some
Catholic legislators among them). They frame the issue as a matter of
civil rights, saying that Catholic Charities was using taxpayer money
to discriminate against same-sex couples.
Tim Kee, a teacher in Marion, Ill., who was turned away by Catholic
Charities three years ago when he and his longtime partner, Rick Wade,
tried to adopt a child, said: “We’re both Catholic, we love our
church, but Catholic Charities closed the door to us. To add insult to
injury, my tax dollars went to provide discrimination against me.”
The bishops are engaged in the religious liberty battle on several
fronts. They have asked the Obama administration to lift a new
requirement that Catholic and other religiously affiliated hospitals,
universities and charity groups cover contraception in their
employees’ health plans. A decision has been expected for weeks now.
At the same time, the bishops are protesting the recent denial of a
federal contract to provide care for victims of sex-trafficking,
saying the decision was anti-Catholic. An official with the Department
of Health and Human Services recently told a hearing on Capitol Hill
that the bishops’ program was rejected because it did not provide the
survivors of sex-trafficking, some of whom are rape victims, with
referrals for abortions or contraceptives.
Advertise | AdChoices
Critics of the church argue that no group has a constitutional right
to a government contract, especially if it refuses to provide required
services.
But Anthony R. Picarello Jr., general counsel and associate general
secretary of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops,
disagreed. “It’s true that the church doesn’t have a First Amendment
right to have a government contract,” he said, “but it does have a
First Amendment right not to be excluded from a contract based on its
religious beliefs.”
The controversy in Illinois began when the state legislature voted in
November 2010 to legalize civil unions for same-sex couples, which the
state’s Catholic bishops lobbied against. The legislation was titled
“The Illinois Religious Freedom Protection and Civil Unions Act,” and
Bishop Paprocki said he was given the impression that it would not
affect state contracts for Catholic Charities and other religious
social services.
Adoption services jettisoned
Bishops in Washington and Massachusetts had already decided to
jettison their Catholic Charities’ adoption services rather than
comply with nondiscrimination laws.
In New York State, religious groups lobbied for specific exemption
language in the same-sex marriage bill. But bishops in Illinois did
not negotiate, Bishop Paprocki said.
“It would have been seen as, We’re going to compromise on the
principle as long as we get our exception. We didn’t want it to be
seen as buying our support,” he said.
Catholic Charities is one of the nation’s most extensive social
service networks, serving more than 10 million poor adults and
children of many faiths across the country. It is made up of local
affiliates that answer to local bishops and dioceses, but much of its
revenue comes from the government. Catholic Charities affiliates
received a total of nearly $2.9 billion a year from the government in
2010, about 62 percent of its annual revenue of $4.67 billion. Only 3
percent came from churches in the diocese (the rest came from in-kind
contributions, investments, program fees and community donations).
In Illinois, Catholic Charities in five of the six state dioceses had
grown dependent on foster care contracts, receiving 60 percent to 92
percent of their revenues from the state, according to affidavits by
the charities’ directors. (Catholic Charities in the Archdiocese of
Chicago pulled out of foster care services in 2007 because of problems
with its insurance provider).
When the contracts came up for renewal in June, the state attorney
general along with the legal staff in the governor’s office and the
Department of Children and Family Services decided that the religious
providers on state contracts would no longer be able to reject same-
sex couples, said Kendall Marlowe, a spokesman for the department.
The Catholic providers offered to refer same-sex couples to other
agencies (as they had been doing for same-sex and unmarried couples),
but that was not acceptable to the state, Mr. Marlowe said. “Separate
but equal was not a sufficient solution on other civil rights issues
in the past either,” he said.
Some decide to fight
Catholic Charities in the Diocese of Rockford decided at that point to
get out of the foster care business. But the bishops in Springfield,
Peoria, Joliet and Belleville decided to fight, filing a lawsuit
against the state.
Taking a completely different tack was the agency affiliated with the
conservative Lutheran Church — Missouri Synod, which like the Catholic
Church does not sanction same-sex relationships. Gene Svebakken,
president and chief executive of the agency, Lutheran Child and Family
Services of Illinois, visited all seven pastoral conferences in his
state and explained that the best option was to compromise and
continue caring for the children.
Advertise | AdChoices
“We’ve been around 140 years, and if we didn’t follow the law we’d go
out of business,” Mr. Svebakken said. “We believe its God- pleasing to
serve these kids, and we know we do a good job.”
In August, Judge John Schmidt, a circuit judge in Sangamon County,
ruled against Catholic Charities, saying, “No citizen has a recognized
legal right to a contract with the government.” He did not address the
religious liberty claims, ruling only that the state did not violate
the church’s property rights.
Three of the dioceses filed an appeal, but in November filed a motion
to dismiss their lawsuit. The Dioceses of Peoria and Belleville are
spinning off their state-financed social services, with the
caseworkers, top executives and foster children all moving to new
nonprofits that will no longer be affiliated with either diocese.
Gary Huelsmann, executive director of Catholic Social Services of
Southern Illinois, in the Belleville Diocese, said the decision was
excruciating for everyone.
“We have 600 children abused and neglected in an area where there are
hardly any providers,” he said. “Us going out of business would have
been detrimental to these children, and that’s a sin, too.”
The work will be carried on, but the Catholic Church’s seminal,
historic connection with it has been severed, noted Mr. Marlowe, the
spokesman for the state’s child welfare agency. “The child welfare
system that Catholic Charities helped build,” he said, “is now strong
enough to survive their departure.”
Carl Kaufmann
Dec 29, 2011, 12:15:01 PM12/29/11
to
Usenet Legends -̮̮̃-̃ ̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾ ™ ► ♫♫♫ ◄ wrote:
> 'In the name of tolerance, we’re not being tolerated,' says canon
> lawyer. How shameful it is to see a reputable children's charity
> close rather than be forced to comply with the bleeding heart liberals
> and their wicked agendas. ..b&c
They can be as discriminatory as they wish as long as they don't
> 'In the name of tolerance, we’re not being tolerated,' says canon
> lawyer. How shameful it is to see a reputable children's charity
> close rather than be forced to comply with the bleeding heart liberals
> and their wicked agendas. ..b&c
accept public money. There is a difference between having the state
allowing the practice your religion and having the state subsidize
the practice of your religion.
Colanth
Dec 29, 2011, 1:17:13 PM12/29/11
to
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 07:19:37 -0800 (PST), Usenet Legends -???-?
??????•?? ™ ? ??? ? <usenetle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>WASHINGTON — Catholic Charities in Illinois has served for more than
>40 years as a major link in the state’s social service network for
>poor and neglected children. But now most of the Catholic Charities
>affiliates in Illinois are closing down rather than comply with a new
>requirement that says they can no longer receive state money if they
>turn away same-sex couples as potential foster care and adoptive
>parents.
If they can't survive without money from people who don't agree with
??????•?? ™ ? ??? ? <usenetle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>WASHINGTON — Catholic Charities in Illinois has served for more than
>40 years as a major link in the state’s social service network for
>poor and neglected children. But now most of the Catholic Charities
>affiliates in Illinois are closing down rather than comply with a new
>requirement that says they can no longer receive state money if they
>turn away same-sex couples as potential foster care and adoptive
>parents.
them, there's no reason they should stay in business. The free
exercise of religion doesn't include the right to be supported by the
government. Let them sell some of the treasures stored under the
Vatican if they need money.
--
"I heard somebody say, 'Where's Nelson Mandela?' Well, Mandela's dead.
Because Saddam killed all the Mandelas." - George W. Bush
MarkA
Dec 29, 2011, 3:21:56 PM12/29/11
to
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 07:19:37 -0800, Usenet Legends wrote:
> 'In the name of tolerance, we're not being tolerated,' says canon
> lawyer. How shameful it is to see a reputable children's charity
> close rather than be forced to comply with the bleeding heart liberals
> and their wicked agendas. ..b&c
> ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Here's a clue, Skippy: The Vatican has more money than the US Government
> 'In the name of tolerance, we're not being tolerated,' says canon
> lawyer. How shameful it is to see a reputable children's charity
> close rather than be forced to comply with the bleeding heart liberals
> and their wicked agendas. ..b&c
> ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
and Bill Gates combined. If they want to spend some of it spreading their
message of hatred and intolerance, there's nothing to stop them.
--
MarkA
If you can read this, you can stop reading now.
Loirbaj
Dec 29, 2011, 9:34:38 PM12/29/11
to
That's OUTRAGEOUS for them to discriminate
against homosexualist 'parents' for boys. Just
because virtually ALL the rapes of boys so far
have ALL been by homosexualists...surely
doesn't mean that they should deny access to
boys to homosexualists. Ohh...no.
against homosexualist 'parents' for boys. Just
because virtually ALL the rapes of boys so far
have ALL been by homosexualists...surely
doesn't mean that they should deny access to
boys to homosexualists. Ohh...no.
Oglethorpe
Dec 30, 2011, 8:16:54 PM12/30/11
to
"Loirbaj" <Rhod...@wmconnect.com> wrote in message
news:5f676377-6965-4c8c...@e2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> That's OUTRAGEOUS for them to discriminate
> against homosexualist 'parents' for boys. Just
> because virtually ALL the rapes of boys so far
> have ALL been by homosexualists...
No CITES. Some men use boys because boys can't get pregnasnt. BTW: What's a
> against homosexualist 'parents' for boys. Just
> because virtually ALL the rapes of boys so far
> have ALL been by homosexualists...
homosexualist?
Colanth
Dec 30, 2011, 6:29:59 PM12/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:16:54 -0800, "Oglethorpe" <anti...@go.com>
wrote:
It's a figment of Liarboi's imagination.
--
Darwin's Law of Carcinogens: Cancer cures smoking.
wrote:
--
Darwin's Law of Carcinogens: Cancer cures smoking.
One Angry Liberal
Jan 2, 2012, 7:12:00 PM1/2/12
to
=?UTF-8?B?VXNlbmV0IExlZ2VuZHMgLcyuzK7Mgy3MgyDMvuKXj8yuzK7Mg8y+4oCizIPMviDih
KIg4pa6IA==?= =?UTF-8?B?4pmr4pmr4pmrIOKXhA==?=
> <usenetle...@gmail.com> wrote: 'In the name of tolerance, we=92re
KIg4pa6IA==?= =?UTF-8?B?4pmr4pmr4pmrIOKXhA==?=
> <usenetle...@gmail.com> wrote: 'In the name of tolerance, we=92re
> not being tolerated,' says canon lawyer. How shameful it is to see a
> reputable children's charity close rather than be forced to comply with
> the bleeding heart liberals and their wicked agendas. ..b&c
Why won't anyone tolerate their intolerance???
> reputable children's charity close rather than be forced to comply with
> the bleeding heart liberals and their wicked agendas. ..b&c
Colanth
Jan 3, 2012, 11:53:40 AM1/3/12
to
On 03 Jan 2012 00:12:00 GMT, bendov...@illfuckyouupyour.ass (One
Yes, that's just so intolerant.
Dakota
Jan 3, 2012, 12:04:22 PM1/3/12
to
On 1/3/2012 10:53 AM, Colanth wrote:
> On 03 Jan 2012 00:12:00 GMT, bendov...@illfuckyouupyour.ass (One
> Angry Liberal) wrote:
>
>> =?UTF-8?B?VXNlbmV0IExlZ2VuZHMgLcyuzK7Mgy3MgyDMvuKXj8yuzK7Mg8y+4oCizIPMviDih
>> KIg4pa6IA==?= =?UTF-8?B?4pmr4pmr4pmrIOKXhA==?=
>>> <usenetle...@gmail.com> wrote: 'In the name of tolerance, we=92re
>>> not being tolerated,' says canon lawyer. How shameful it is to see a
>>> reputable children's charity close rather than be forced to comply with
>>> the bleeding heart liberals and their wicked agendas. ..b&c
>>
>> Why won't anyone tolerate their intolerance???
>
> Yes, that's just so intolerant.
The Church is still free to discriminate but they won't get taxpayer
> On 03 Jan 2012 00:12:00 GMT, bendov...@illfuckyouupyour.ass (One
> Angry Liberal) wrote:
>
>> =?UTF-8?B?VXNlbmV0IExlZ2VuZHMgLcyuzK7Mgy3MgyDMvuKXj8yuzK7Mg8y+4oCizIPMviDih
>> KIg4pa6IA==?= =?UTF-8?B?4pmr4pmr4pmrIOKXhA==?=
>>> <usenetle...@gmail.com> wrote: 'In the name of tolerance, we=92re
>>> not being tolerated,' says canon lawyer. How shameful it is to see a
>>> reputable children's charity close rather than be forced to comply with
>>> the bleeding heart liberals and their wicked agendas. ..b&c
>>
>> Why won't anyone tolerate their intolerance???
>
> Yes, that's just so intolerant.
money anymore. If they wanted to help children, they could continue to
do so. Instead they closed their "reputable children's charity" rather
than give up the cash.
Colanth
Jan 4, 2012, 1:30:27 PM1/4/12
to
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:04:22 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com>
wrote:
They could always discuss their intolerance with the Boy Scouts.
wrote:
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