Violence
Nicola Bailey
I am in a show this week, an amateur play, and at one point I get
threatened by another character on stage.
Now, I know that in a violent scene, the victim is actually the actor in
control, not the aggressor being really violent.
Unfortunately, my fellow actor seems to think that if a scene calls for
him to beat me up, he really does it. Hence, my arms are covered in
bruises, and my muscles ache a lot.
One professional actor I know suggested I have a word with the director,
but in his experience, directors usually care about the performers and
know what they are doing. In my case, the director thinks the sun
shines out of this actor's behind, and wouldn't say anything to him.
I've already spoken to the actor concerned, and all he says is "sorry",
then proceeds to carry on as before.
This isn't just something he does with me - many other actors, male and
female, have come out of a show covered in bruises from him.
Our show finishes tonight, but does anyone have any tips for the
future? Short of refusing to act with him again? Any advice would be
greatly appreciated!!!!!!
Nicola
England
--
************************************************
nicola...@virgin.net
http://freespace.virgin.net/nicola.bailey/hello.html
************************************************
Christopher Jahn
>
> Our show finishes tonight, but does anyone have any tips for
> the future? Short of refusing to act with him again? Any
> advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!
No, I'd refuse to work with such a dangerously incompetent rank
amateur, and put it in those words, and feel free to use this
letter in support. Suffering for your art is one thing, putting
yourself in harm's way because some buffoon doesn't understand
that acting isn't reality is something else.
Failing that, kick him in the balls tonight, and tell him "I
get hurt - YOU get hurt".
--
TO REPLY: xjahn AT bellsouth DOT net
==============================================
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( Dionysian Reveler
"I could never tell a lie that anybody would doubt,
nor a truth that anybody would believe."
Mark Twain
Daniel Norton
wrote:
>Unfortunately, my fellow actor seems to think that if a scene calls for
>him to beat me up, he really does it. Hence, my arms are covered in
>bruises, and my muscles ache a lot.
Demand that it stop, or quit the show. Period. Full stop.
Anything else, and you are consenting to the abuse.
I presume that you are an adult. Act like one.
>This isn't just something he does with me - many other actors, male and
>female, have come out of a show covered in bruises from him.
That's their problem.
>Our show finishes tonight, but does anyone have any tips for the
>future?
Warn him before the show. If he does it during a scene, leave the stage.
>Short of refusing to act with him again?
Refuse to act with him again.
> Any advice would be
>greatly appreciated!!!!!!
Grow up.
--
Daniel
il professore
>>greatly appreciated!!!!!!
Daniel Norton responded, in part:
>Grow up<
Daniel,
I think it very presumptuous of any human being to give another such rude
instruction. Do you really consider yourself *mature* enough to advise
another actor how to behave? In re-reading Nicola's post, I see that she
continued subjecting herself to such abuse because she believed (or was
told) that violence was necessary for the good of the play. She appealed to
the actor and the director and neither supported her. I agree that she
should have had the courage to threaten to resign if the violence was not
staged in a way that would not do her bodily harm, but she did what she did
for the best of reasons: to better the play. I should think that as a fellow
actor you would have had the sympathy , the kindness, yes, the common
decency to offer her advice and solace, instead of thoughtless admonition.
NORMAN B. SCHWARTZ
>Il Professore <
ilp...@thegrid.net
moderator ACTING-PRO discussion list
http://www.thegrid.net/virg
Nicola Bailey
Unfortunately, 'resigning' from the play isn't an option. It is only an amateur
production, with no understudy, etc. I go, or any other cast member for that
matter, and there simply isn't a show. And this problem didn't materialise
during rehearsals.
Apparent violence IS necessary for the good of the play, but of course, that
doesn't equal real violence.
Again, I have another problem in refusing to act with this person again. Apart
from the fact that in other areas of acting, he is very very good, we live in a
small town, with one major drama group. And he is cast in every production -
due to the lack of men available. Hence, it would be me who would never get
another role, not him. Cutting off my nose to spite my face, I think.
Of course, when I have to kiss him on stage, again he doesn't hold back, so I
get a good side-effect from that one! It's just his unprofessionalism and lack
of skill that mean he can't hold back in other ways.
Oh well. Tonight is the last time, so my arms can have a rest after that! I'll
let someone else take a turn next.
Nicola
Daniel Norton
wrote:
>I think it very presumptuous of any human being to give another such rude
>instruction. Do you really consider yourself *mature* enough to advise
>another actor how to behave?
When it comes to violence and abuse, yes, absolutely.
> In re-reading Nicola's post, I see that she
>continued subjecting herself to such abuse because she believed (or was
>told) that violence was necessary for the good of the play.
Total bullshit.
> She appealed to
>the actor and the director and neither supported her.
She asked for them to stop, and they refused.
> I agree that she
>should have had the courage to threaten to resign if the violence was not
>staged in a way that would not do her bodily harm, but she did what she did
>for the best of reasons: to better the play.
More bullshit. It's pure drivel to suggest that violence and abuse could be
considered a justification to "better" a play.
>I should think that as a fellow
>actor you would have had the sympathy , the kindness, yes, the common
>decency to offer her advice and solace, instead of thoughtless admonition.
It would be thoughtless, unsympathetic, unkind and ill-advised to suggest that
she would have to depend on others to stand up for her, when she is an adult
who is fully capable of and responsible for standing up for herself.
--
Daniel
il professore
be
>considered a justification to "better" a play.
We are not discussing unregulated violence on the stage, which no one could
possibly condone. We're talking about you insulting subscribers, which is
verbal violence.
Daniel Norton
wrote:
>We are not discussing unregulated violence on the stage, which no one could
>possibly condone. We're talking about you insulting subscribers, which is
>verbal violence.
Okay, I'll admit that my language was strong and impolite. But hardly verbal
violence. It's absurd to compare my reproach to the physical violence Nicola
has experienced on stage. And just as absurd to support the notion that it
might be justified to "better" the play. It's that kind of argument that
supports an absurd dilemma: to accept violence or to reject it.
The fact is, Nicola is choosing the violence and it's tied to her sexual
attraction to her abuser. It's a typical abusive relationship. Her choice is
undoubtedly related to her own passive-aggressive attempts to control the
relationship. Her motivation in posting here is not about ending the abuse,
it's about finding more ways to control the relationship, when the only
reasonable choice is to end the relationship -- which she is clearly not
interested in.
In a situation such as this, I can only say "Fuck polite."
--
Daniel
Ian Alexander Martin
Spread word about his behavior as fast as you can, so that he stops this
unprofessional behavior immediately. If he knows that his actual beating
of fellow performers is unacceptable and will not be condoned, then he
should stop. The other possibility is speaking to the authorities about
having the crown lay assault charges against him - while it extreme, if he
hasn't learned his lesson from tohers before you, it may be the only way.
Actually, to hell with the possibility of un-professional behavior, this
just isn't human.
He has rage issues that he has to deal with. He ought to seek
professional (ie: psychological) help. If it takes a criminal charge to
acomplish it, so be it.
And the Director ought to see your bruises on a regular basis, and ought
to be dragged across hot coals.
Keep clear of this man from here on.
-------------------------------------------------
Ian Alexander Martin
ro...@vcn.bc.ca
www.geocities.com/Broadway/Orchestra/6253/
AUDENTES FORTUNA IUVAT - luck helps the audacious
-------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bailey
I think, since a couple of people have decided to form opinions about me and a
situation they are not party to, that I ought to chip in here.
Daniel Norton wrote:
> Okay, I'll admit that my language was strong and impolite. But hardly verbal
> violence. It's absurd to compare my reproach to the physical violence Nicola
> has experienced on stage. And just as absurd to support the notion that it
> might be justified to "better" the play. It's that kind of argument that
> supports an absurd dilemma: to accept violence or to reject it.
For a start, I did not, at any point, ever agree to be subjected to actual
violence. It didn't happen at rehearsal, and the actor decided to really be rough
with me on the stage. I mentioned it to him, and pointed out his errors, but he
made no changes. I certainly would never ever condone violence to "better" a
play. Did I ever say that I had?
> The fact is, Nicola is choosing the violence and it's tied to her sexual
> attraction to her abuser. It's a typical abusive relationship.
Secondly, how dare you cast aspersions on my sexual attractions? You do not know
me, my situation, the actor involved, or the director. I am not sexually
attracted to the actor. More to the point, he is living with the director. See
my problem? Whenever I broach a subject with one of them, the other immediately
jumps to their defence, whether valid or not.
> Her choice is
> undoubtedly related to her own passive-aggressive attempts to control the
> relationship. Her motivation in posting here is not about ending the abuse,
> it's about finding more ways to control the relationship, when the only
> reasonable choice is to end the relationship -- which she is clearly not
> interested in.
What relationship? There simply isn't one. My only concern was how to get the
actor and director to see that this acting thing means making a scene look
violent, without causing actual physical harm to anyone. From which part of that
do you read that I like abusive relationships?????
> In a situation such as this, I can only say "Fuck polite."
Hmmm..... enough said on that one!
Reg Flowers
is being careless and doing something that hurts you physically. Use this as
a final warning before refusing to do the scene and only after every
possible use of reasoning has been fruitless.
1) Step away from them. Get some safety distance between the two of you.
2) Exclaim loudly and directly at the culprit, "Ow!" or some similar
exclamation of pain. (Don't use words. Don't mess with the playwrights
text, but if you attempt to "tell" the person through the text they will
think you are "just into it" and take it as a cue to hit harder.)
3) Step immediately back into the dramatic moment.
This will serve three functions.
It will get you away from an out of control performer. That is just a matter
of safety. It will then put them on the spot in a way that the audience
won't necessarily think is out of place, but the other performer will be
painfully aware of. And finally it will bring the other performer back to
the reality that you are a real person with your own needs and power and you
are not just there to serve as a prop in their solo act.
I was actually turned onto this trick by actor Robert Sella (star of
"Sideman" on Broadway) when I kept carelessy knocking agaisnt his face with
a large metal ring during a scene in another play. I have used it myself and
very effectively a number of times. It has always worked.
Nicola Bailey wrote in message <3774B5D0...@virgin.net>...
>I have a problem.
>
>Now, I know that in a violent scene, the victim is actually the actor in
>control, not the aggressor being really violent.
>
mary
want to vent her frustration but is obviously unwilling to take the advice
offered. Puzzled me. Why did she ask for advice to begin with?
The only logical options offered have been rejected.
Sorry, Nicola I'm with Daniel on this one.
There isn't a magic pill....I can't figure out why women always seem so
helpless in these situations.
No person ever has a right to injure another person _except_ in self
defense. Me, I wouldn't hesitate if the nuthead kept it up he wouldn't
have any left! :)
Daniel Norton wrote in message <37bd7d9f....@enews.newsguy.com>...
>On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:54:24 +0100, Nicola Bailey
<nicola...@virgin.net>
>wrote:
>>For a start, I did not, at any point, ever agree to be subjected to actual
>>violence.
>
>This contradicts your earlier statement that you returned to the stage
fully
>expecting to be subjected to actual physical abuse. Do you now deny that?
>
>>I certainly would never ever condone violence to "better" a
>>play. Did I ever say that I had?
>
>No. Norm wrote that in your defence and I was replying to his post.
>
>On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:54:24 +0100, Nicola Bailey
<nicola...@virgin.net>
>wrote:
>>I am not sexually attracted to the actor.
>
>On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:02:51 +0100, Nicola Bailey
<nicola...@virgin.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Of course, when I have to kiss him on stage, again he doesn't hold back,
so I
>>get a good side-effect from that one!
>
>Was there some other "side-effect" you were writing about?
>
>On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:54:24 +0100, Nicola Bailey
<nicola...@virgin.net>
>wrote:
>>More to the point, he is living with the director. See
>>my problem?
>
>I see the triangle. Little wonder that the director was not interested in
>stopping the violence. Do _you_ see the problem?
>
>> Whenever I broach a subject with one of them, the other immediately
>>jumps to their defence, whether valid or not.
>
>And who is jumping to _your_ defence?
>
>>What relationship? There simply isn't one.
>
>I am using the term loosely.
>
>>My only concern was how to get the actor and director to see that this
acting
>>thing means making a scene look violent, without causing actual physical
harm
>>to anyone.
>
>By now you've already closed this show, but you reinforce an earlier point
I
>made. You were more interested in controlling the situation than in ending
>the abuse.
>
>>From which part of that do you read that I like abusive relationships?????
>
>I never wrote that you liked abusive relationships and I don't think that
you
>wanted the abuse. I wrote that you were "choosing the violence." I don't
>want to minimize the obvious fact that the choice was difficult for you,
but
>it was your choice to end it, and you chose to allow it to continue.
>
>--
>Daniel
>
beckynot
>
> ...The fact is, Nicola is choosing the violence and it's tied to her sexual
> attraction to her abuser. It's a typical abusive relationship. Her choice is
> undoubtedly related to her own passive-aggressive attempts to control the
> relationship. Her motivation in posting here is not about ending the abuse,
> it's about finding more ways to control the relationship, when the only
> reasonable choice is to end the relationship -- which she is clearly not
> interested in....
N.Scott Kozyra
<nicola...@virgin.net> wrote:
>Unfortunately, my fellow actor seems to think that if a scene calls for
>him to beat me up, he really does it. Hence, my arms are covered in
>bruises, and my muscles ache a lot.
I was once in a production with a friend of mine and we were supposed
to fight. It was *mutually* agreed on, since we had previously
wrestled, etc that we would actually fight, throw puches.. The play
*was* better for it, (some audience members started chattering,
standing up, etc.) but we were in control of the situation, and we had
*both* decided to do it that way. Had he not wanted to actually
fight, I would not have forced it onto him. A fight scene can be
choreographed just as well. This guy seems like an asshole who
*thinks* this will help him get more into his part emotionally.
Definitely complain to the director, and if this doesn't work, quit
the play.
n.scott kozyra
.erik gloom.
.2000.
Daniel Norton
wrote:
>For a start, I did not, at any point, ever agree to be subjected to actual
>violence.
This contradicts your earlier statement that you returned to the stage fully
expecting to be subjected to actual physical abuse. Do you now deny that?
>I certainly would never ever condone violence to "better" a
>play. Did I ever say that I had?
No. Norm wrote that in your defence and I was replying to his post.
On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:54:24 +0100, Nicola Bailey <nicola...@virgin.net>
wrote:
>I am not sexually attracted to the actor.
On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:02:51 +0100, Nicola Bailey <nicola...@virgin.net>
wrote:
>Of course, when I have to kiss him on stage, again he doesn't hold back, so I
>get a good side-effect from that one!
Was there some other "side-effect" you were writing about?
On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:54:24 +0100, Nicola Bailey <nicola...@virgin.net>
wrote:
Drowsycat
>Apparent violence IS necessary for the good of the play, but of course, that
>doesn't equal real violence.
Really?
>Again, I have another problem in refusing to act with this person again.
>Apart from the fact that in other areas of acting, he is very very good, we
live in a
>small town, with one major drama group. And he is cast in every production -
>due to the lack of men available.
Sounds like a sad situation. Any town small enough to harbor a petty thug as
the 'only man who gets parts', is one you ought consider leaving.
>Of course, when I have to kiss him on stage, again he doesn't hold back, so I
>get a good side-effect from that one! It's just his unprofessionalism and
>lack of skill that mean he can't hold back in other ways.
Oh...well that explains it...
Orb71
>I get a good side-effect from that one! It's just his unprofessionalism and
>>lack of skill that mean he can't hold back in other ways.
>
Yeah. That reminds me of my Dad. He used to beat me, burn me with cigarettes,
lock me in the closet, once he even threw boiling hot grease in my face! But
damn if he didn't have a great golf swing! I tell ya, the guy could drive the
ball a mile! When you think about it along those lines, I guess the guy wasn't
so bad after all.
drama...@home.com
I once encountered the same problem on the set of Earth: Final Conflict.
Unfortunately in my case, this happened while we were shooting a scene.
One of the Presidential bodyguards trying to push back a press scrum,
didn't realize that we were not playing a game of tackle-football. He
was 6'5", 280 lbs. I'm 5'6" and 110 lbs sopping wet. To make matters
worse, we were backing up onto very expensive lighting equipment. If I
allowed him to plow over me, ...we would have fallen like dominoes,
knocking over the lighting equipment, and potentially seriously hurting
others. Since my pleas for consideration went unheeded, at the last
minute, I made a decision. I raised by knee, and with precision,
...found my target. It had the desired effect. Since his back was to the
camera when this took place, the shocked, surprised look on his face did
not register on film, but his forward pressure ceased. It's rather
unfortunate that I had to do that, but I felt if anyone was going to be
hurt as a result of his inability to separate fantasy from reality, it
was going to be him, not me, and not the innocent people standing behind
me or behind the lighting equipment.
Nicola Bailey wrote:
>
> I have a problem.
>
> I am in a show this week, an amateur play, and at one point I get
> threatened by another character on stage.
>
> Now, I know that in a violent scene, the victim is actually the actor in
> control, not the aggressor being really violent.
>
> Unfortunately, my fellow actor seems to think that if a scene calls for
> him to beat me up, he really does it. Hence, my arms are covered in
> bruises, and my muscles ache a lot.
>
> One professional actor I know suggested I have a word with the director,
> but in his experience, directors usually care about the performers and
> know what they are doing. In my case, the director thinks the sun
> shines out of this actor's behind, and wouldn't say anything to him.
>
> I've already spoken to the actor concerned, and all he says is "sorry",
> then proceeds to carry on as before.
>
> This isn't just something he does with me - many other actors, male and
> female, have come out of a show covered in bruises from him.
>
> Our show finishes tonight, but does anyone have any tips for the
> future? Short of refusing to act with him again? Any advice would be
> greatly appreciated!!!!!!
>
> Nicola
> England
Mike Polo
Daniel, mary and beckynot --
From a few short lines in an e-mail you have made psychological evaluations
of a person you have never met?!? And your degrees are in what?
Ladies and gentleman... and I assume I am talking to ladies and gentlemen...
Nicola came to this group for advice after she found herself in a situation
that she believed she could not handle, only to be told that she brought it
on herself. Sounds like the defense in a 1940's rape trial.
Yes, Nicola should be encouraged to stand up for herself, but verbally
smacking her around is inappropriate... especially from people she came to
for help. If this is the kind of human understanding that you bring to the
stage, I feel sorry for your fellow actors. Put yourself in her shoes... We
have all had that old saw about "the show must go on" drilled into us from
the beginning. Professional, amatuer, stage actor or screen actor, it's a
rule that we have to buy into to do what we do. Walking off a stage goes
against everything we've be taught. However, a situation like this is
intolerable. It gives all of theater a bad name.
The actor in question, and, most importantly, the director who does not
protect his performers, should be "encouraged" to find another hobby... like
boxing. And the culture of the group involved should be re-examined. If
something like this happened in any of the amatuer groups I've worked with,
the actor and director would be looking for new places to play with makeup.
And as for Nicola, I hope this experience, both on-stage and in the
newsgroup, does not give her the impression that all actors and directors
are insensitive, hypercritical snobs. Most of us actually care about each
other.
--------------------------------
Mike Polo
mike...@communitytheater.org
Community Theater Green Room -- http://www.communitytheater.org
David M. Evans
mary <tu...@htcomp.net> wrote in message
Uhhh, just a guess, but how about she was looking for attention, sympathy and validation. See that alot lately.
David M. Evans
Mike Polo <mike...@communitytheater.org> wrote in message news:fJpd3.935$Y51....@newshog.newsread.com...
> Daniel, mary and beckynot --
> From a few short lines in an e-mail you have made psychological evaluations
> of a person you have never met?!? And your degrees are in what?
>
Oh God- find something worthwhile to get worked up about and do it in less than 500 words.
This is nor the first time someone has popped in here out of the blue, asked "for advice" and then been displeased with the results. Hey! Wake up! If one wants advice, one evaluates what is given. One should not flip out because it is not what they want to hear. Furthermore, the clue-less arrogance displayed on the part the advice seeker (and now her "defender"), by "going-off" at those who were kind enough to take the time to reply is truly stunning.
Here's my advice. Kick him in the b****, and stop whining. But my feeling is, all she wants to hear is "you poor widdle thing".
Advice part 2- Especially to community theater boy- Take off.
David M. Evans
Nicola Bailey <nicola...@virgin.net> wrote in message news:37755A20...@virgin.net...
> Excuse me??????
>
> I think, since a couple of people have decided to form opinions about me and a
> situation they are not party to, that I ought to chip in here.
>
> Daniel Norton wrote:
>
> > Okay, I'll admit that my language was strong and impolite. But hardly verbal
> > violence. It's absurd to compare my reproach to the physical violence Nicola
> > has experienced on stage. And just as absurd to support the notion that it
> > might be justified to "better" the play. It's that kind of argument that
> > supports an absurd dilemma: to accept violence or to reject it.
>
> For a start, I did not, at any point, ever agree to be subjected to actual
> violence. It didn't happen at rehearsal, and the actor decided to really be rough
> with me on the stage. I mentioned it to him, and pointed out his errors, but he
> made no changes. I certainly would never ever condone violence to "better" a
> play. Did I ever say that I had?
>
> > The fact is, Nicola is choosing the violence and it's tied to her sexual
> > attraction to her abuser. It's a typical abusive relationship.
>
> Secondly, how dare you cast aspersions on my sexual attractions? You do not know
> me, my situation, the actor involved, or the director. I am not sexually
> attracted to the actor. More to the point, he is living with the director. See
> my problem? Whenever I broach a subject with one of them, the other immediately
> jumps to their defence, whether valid or not.
>
> > Her choice is
> > undoubtedly related to her own passive-aggressive attempts to control the
> > relationship. Her motivation in posting here is not about ending the abuse,
> > it's about finding more ways to control the relationship, when the only
> > reasonable choice is to end the relationship -- which she is clearly not
> > interested in.
>
> What relationship? There simply isn't one. My only concern was how to get the
> actor and director to see that this acting thing means making a scene look
> violent, without causing actual physical harm to anyone. From which part of that
> do you read that I like abusive relationships?????
>
> > In a situation such as this, I can only say "Fuck polite."
>
> Hmmm..... enough said on that one!
>
> Nicola
David M. Evans
Nicola Bailey <nicola...@virgin.net> wrote in message news:377507BB...@virgin.net...
Of course, when I have to kiss him on stage, again he doesn't hold back, so I
get a good side-effect from that one! It's just his unprofessionalism and lack
of skill that mean he can't hold back in other ways.
Looks like you had the sexual attraction element nailed, Daniel. And what ever credibility Nicola had, just went right out the window.
Advice #3- Get help.
Nicola Bailey
I appreciate your support.
beckynot
advice, so that's what she got. She was in a situation that she said she did not
enjoy but was unwilling to leave and that it had its upside.
Tom Reddick
>Now, I know that in a violent scene, the victim is actually the actor in
>control, not the aggressor being really violent.
>
>Unfortunately, my fellow actor seems to think that if a scene calls for
>him to beat me up, he really does it. Hence, my arms are covered in
>bruises, and my muscles ache a lot.
>This isn't just something he does with me - many other actors, male and
>female, have come out of a show covered in bruises from him.
>
>Our show finishes tonight, but does anyone have any tips for the
>future? Short of refusing to act with him again? Any advice would be
>greatly appreciated!!!!!!
>
>Nicola
>England
This is most distressing, and contrary to what he seems to think it
is extremely unprofessional. One strikingly urgent issue I find in
Stanislavski's "An Actor Prepares", and far more important than I ever
thought, is the notion of muscle and body control. Actually being violent
is NOT a good thing as you are seeing and this is something he obviously
needs to seriously work on.
In the future I would recommend you find out in rehearsals about
this. As soon as you can, figure out if you are dealing with someone like
this. And for goodness sake warn others about this guy if he refuses to
at least hear your concerns. If you do that you help ensure he either
learns his profession a little better or finds something he can do better.
Word gets around and hopefully someone will warn you in the future if this
happens again. This is the first time I have ever heard of this happening,
so hopefully it is as rare a problem as it appears to me now.
And don't be afraid to think about yourself here too. Bruises and
other injuries can cost you work if they will be visible when you are
auditioning for your next job! Good luck with the last performance. And
when the play is over and the pressure is off, maybe a talk with the
director would be a good thing just to get his opinions and thoughts on
the matter. At that point with all the performances done he will not have
the pressures of worrying about conflict with a show coming up and I
imagine he would be a lot more receptive to your concerns.
Take care,
Tom.
Opus (:>
rolling?
drama...@home.com wrote:
>
> Hi Nicola,
>
> I once encountered the same problem on the set of Earth: Final Conflict.
> Unfortunately in my case, this happened while we were shooting a scene.
> One of the Presidential bodyguards trying to push back a press scrum,
> didn't realize that we were not playing a game of tackle-football. He
> was 6'5", 280 lbs. I'm 5'6" and 110 lbs sopping wet. To make matters
> worse, we were backing up onto very expensive lighting equipment. If I
> allowed him to plow over me, ...we would have fallen like dominoes,
> knocking over the lighting equipment, and potentially seriously hurting
> others. Since my pleas for consideration went unheeded, at the last
> minute, I made a decision. I raised by knee, and with precision,
> ...found my target. It had the desired effect. Since his back was to the
> camera when this took place, the shocked, surprised look on his face did
> not register on film, but his forward pressure ceased. It's rather
> unfortunate that I had to do that, but I felt if anyone was going to be
> hurt as a result of his inability to separate fantasy from reality, it
> was going to be him, not me, and not the innocent people standing behind
> me or behind the lighting equipment.
>
> Nicola Bailey wrote:
> >
> > I have a problem.
> >
> > I am in a show this week, an amateur play, and at one point I get
> > threatened by another character on stage.
> >
> > Now, I know that in a violent scene, the victim is actually the actor in
> > control, not the aggressor being really violent.
> >
> > Unfortunately, my fellow actor seems to think that if a scene calls for
> > him to beat me up, he really does it. Hence, my arms are covered in
> > bruises, and my muscles ache a lot.
> >
> > One professional actor I know suggested I have a word with the director,
> > but in his experience, directors usually care about the performers and
> > know what they are doing. In my case, the director thinks the sun
> > shines out of this actor's behind, and wouldn't say anything to him.
> >
> > I've already spoken to the actor concerned, and all he says is "sorry",
> > then proceeds to carry on as before.
> >
> > This isn't just something he does with me - many other actors, male and
> > female, have come out of a show covered in bruises from him.
> >
> > Our show finishes tonight, but does anyone have any tips for the
> > future? Short of refusing to act with him again? Any advice would be
> > greatly appreciated!!!!!!
> >
> > Nicola
> > England
> >
> > --
> > ************************************************
> > nicola...@virgin.net
> > http://freespace.virgin.net/nicola.bailey/hello.html
> > ************************************************
--
Opus (:>
http://www.Carla.Coble.com - Acting site; not all links are viable yet.
http://members.home.net/coble/OpusGraphics -Websets and Graphics
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"Well my dad has only had 4 bypasses, and he eats all the steak he
wants."-- Hank Hill
mary
that?
All I did was tell her I agreed with Daniel and that if it were me I'd fight
back! I'm not a violent person, mmmmm unless I am provoked in self defense.
Natural instict. :)
I have had too often the observation of women in similar situations somehow
think this type of behavior from a man just needs to be reasoned with
gently. The nicer you are the worse the abuse gets. Most of the time men
like this are cowards and if you confront them with force they will retreat!
(Sounds like they should have gotten a stunt double)
I did not intend to discount Nicholas questions, but from her responses to
the advice recieved, I did feel she was looking for an easy answer. There
isn't one for that situation. The guy was an abusive unproffessional jerk
who neede to be put in his place!
Mike Polo wrote in message ...
>
>Daniel, mary and beckynot --
>
>From a few short lines in an e-mail you have made psychological evaluations
>of a person you have never met?!? And your degrees are in what?
>
Reg Flowers
I have read and re-read Nicola's initial post and it was even included in a
posting from T. Reddick today.
She only stated what the situation was with this actor -- made it clear what
he was doing was inclusive of OTHERS in the cast (not the personal drama she
has been accused of).
She demonstrated her ability to go through the correct channels in a
situation involving a co-worker (one never gives another actor a note
directly!) and that the person was unable to make the adjustment and the
director was unwilling to insist upon it.
If anything she should have gone through channels to get him fired. Other
than that there was very little that she could have done save quitting the
show herself which would have been hurtful to herself and her reputation.
Not that anyone has given that advice, but I can see that there have been
many attempts at reading more than has been included in her posting.
It was a reasonable post in that many actors have to deal with this (poorly
directed stage violence) and very few just QUIT. It would be ridiculous to
think that were the only alternative.
I am ashamed at the responses I have read from certain individuals in this
NG and my patience for this kind of unmonitored forum is running out very
quickly.
Are the responses to postings always this reactionary and mean? So often
thoughtless and misinformed (and full of assumption?) Does anyone know of
any other newsgroup frequented by less hostile individuals. Or who make it
the common practice to filter out those who are consistently abusive?
I can barely follow most threads in the NG because I have filtered out
people who are just mean and now I have to filter out whole threads because
they are merely responses to those I have chosen not to acknowledge.
I can only say (for those who are not involved in pettiness and who are
genuinely interested in learning about acting) most of the people you will
meet who are working and have rewarding careers in theater are not this base
and have a lot more going on.
Dropping this thread
RF
il professore
>And as for Nicola, I hope this experience, both on-stage and in the
newsgroup, does not give her the impression that all actors and directors
are insensitive, hypercritical snobs. Most of us actually care about each
other.<
I would like to second Mike on this. When someone comes to a newsgroup for
advice, they are not looking for a kick in the butt. They certainly don't
wish to be told to "grow up," "stop whining" or to have themselves
psychoanalyzed by the unqualified. I am appalled that there our people out
there so lacking in compassion that they would treat another actor, let
alone a human being, this way.
Whether Nicola brought this violence onto herself, or was forced to do so by
the director, or acted in good faith because of the famous "The Show Must Go
On" syndrome of which we all have been victim, the fact still remains that a
human being was confused and in pain and sought help What she got instead,
by and large, was crassness and arrogance and know-nothingess.
The subtext in David Evans post is that Nicola came to the ng soliciting
pity. ("you poor widdle thing") To him, she seems to be the rape victim who
wanted to be raped, not a fellow actor who did what she was told because no
one was there to support her. I would hope that a newsgroup such as this
would be a place where actors who have experienced violence, physical or
verbal, could come for such support, advice and solace --- surely not
further abuse.
Il professore.
il professore
>All I did was tell her I agreed with Daniel<
Mary,
Do you also agree with Daniel that Nicola should just "grow up? ?
Do you agree with David that she should just "stop whining" ?
You have somehow given me and others that impression. Was that your
intention ?
Il Professore
mary
>From reading this thread Daniel. I'm with you. This person seems to just
want to vent her frustration but is obviously unwilling to take the advice
offered. <
No I don't recall calling any names except to the jerk who beat her up. and
anyone familiar with my posts know that I do not "slam" people who ask
advice.
I still reinterate that my reply was not a slam but a statement addressing
the issue at hand.....
I must add that while I do not have a "degree" in psychology, my experience
working with crisis victims does give me some insight into the mind behind
both the aggressor and the victim. Although what I am witnessing here is
just the beginnings of her acceptance of this kind of behavior because she
chose to put up with it at all. _She_ is the only one that can stop it or
get away from it!
I am far from being a complete novice to this type situation!
Mary
David M. Evans
This isn't about acting, it's about dysfunction.
I'm gonna drop it now.
il professore <ilp...@thegrid.net> wrote in message news:hhzd3.2569$bd3.2...@alfalfa.thegrid.net...
> Mary posted:
> >All I did was tell her I agreed with Daniel<
>
> Mary,
drama...@home.com
an explaination for my actions at the time, and I didn't offer one
because I think we were both too angry to discuss it just then. I did
notice on the next take tho, he decided not to apply as much pressure. I
then reasoned he understood, & no further explaination was needed. I did
sympathise with the poor guy as I saw him 'walking it off' between shots
I felt bad that I had to resort to that. He was actually a pretty nice
guy. I had worked with him in 1994 on 'National Lampoon's Senior Trip'
and had worked with him the previous month on Ann Margaret's upcoming
film release 'The Happy Face Murders'. We had been on quite friendly
terms. I worked with him once more since that incident. It was the
season finale of Earth: Final Conflict. He was very courteous and
polite, but it was the sort of politeness that held the underlying
message "I'd rather wring your fu**ing neck!". I know he was upset that
I had done that, ...but at that moment, I felt I had no choice. It was
either him or me, ...and I was not getting hurt. Hopefully, he will have
read this thread, and will begin to understand how his actions compelled
me to do what I felt I had to.
I don't necessarily condone violence a means of getting even, ...but I
will use it as a means to protect myself. I just regret that I had to
make such a split second decision, without the option of addressing it
by another means. In any event, it got the job done.
drama...@home.com
beckynot
run.
My brother whose advice is usually less mystical than this
suggested I didn't need that play.
He said till I got it out of my life there wouldn't be room for something
better.
It proved true.
I quit, and I discovered it was better to not be on stage than be miserable.
My next play came soon and was a very good experience.
Maybe his advice translates to "You deserve something better, take a risk".
Nicola Bailey
> One strikingly urgent issue I find in
> Stanislavski's "An Actor Prepares", and far more important than I ever
> thought, is the notion of muscle and body control. Actually being violent
> is NOT a good thing as you are seeing and this is something he obviously
> needs to seriously work on.
He refuses to acknowledge this - even now. The most ridiculous thing I'd ever
heard was when the director said to me that you couldn't hoodwink an audience
- if you didn't do the hurting properly, the audience could tell.
> If you do that you help ensure he either
> learns his profession a little better or finds something he can do better.
>
Unfortunately, as I've said before, it is not our profession. We are merely
amateurs. Hence, I cannot get him fired, as has been suggested, coz we're not
employed in the first place.
I've also suggested getting someone in to do a workshop for us, which he
dismissed out of hand. There is a professional theatre 20 miles away, that
will do a one-off workshop for a group, but this actor and director have a big
problem. I volunteer as a Front of House steward on a regular basis at this
professional theatre, and doing so, have got to speak to some of the stage
crew and professional actors quite a bit.
Whenever I even mention the name of this theatre, the two of them get so
defensive and angry, it's ridiculous!!!! The director of the show even tried
to tell me that he knew better than the professionals I'd spoken to. How can
you possibly reason with arrogance like that?
> And
> when the play is over and the pressure is off, maybe a talk with the
> director would be a good thing just to get his opinions and thoughts on
> the matter. At that point with all the performances done he will not have
> the pressures of worrying about conflict with a show coming up and I
> imagine he would be a lot more receptive to your concerns.
Not so! This is precisely what I tried to do, the day after the last night.
I took the director quietly to one side, and calmly tried to clarify my
position on this. He refused to listen, apart from saying that you can't
hoodwink the audience. He let me speak for all of 30 seconds, then stormed
off and fetched the actor concerned.
This actor then shouted at me for 10 minutes, saying that it was me who was
unprofessional, how dare I call him unprofessional, I should just accept what
was happening, I shouldn't say anything to anyone for fear of upsetting the
performance, and that I'd ruined the entire group completely.
During all of this, the director just skulked in the corner and said nothing.
Unfortunately, I don't know of a better group in the area. If I did, I would
be off by now!!! I can't stand trying to 'work' with children. If I'd wanted
that, I'd have become a teacher!!!
I really don't know what the outcome will be. The actor has rung me and
apologised for what he said, but the origins haven't gone away.
I'll just have to play it by ear I think.
Nicola
MANDRLAW
recounts an actor hurting her repeatedly, later apologizing with "but I really
FELT it". Finally at one performance she screamed and walloped him, and when
he confronted her afterwards about changing the scene, she replied, "I'm sorry
but I really FELT it!" She closes "He never hurt me again".
I don't recommend this approach, but there is NO excuse for hurting your fellow
actors. Theatre is supposed to "lie like truth", but it ain't life.
Dunno. I worked with a psycho once, and basically just ducked my head and got
through the run "for the good of the show".
il professore
It is unfortunate that the director of your theatre is ignorant. Does he
think that every time a punch is swung in a motion picture someone actually
gets hits in the face ? Creating stage and screen violence is an illusion--
a trick that all of us in the professional theatre learn to master. You are
best off far away from these folks. Do they own the theatre? If they don't,
why don't you consider renting it or borrowing it with some other less
violence- loving actors and producing your own play. Let me know publicly or
privately if I can help . There are some people on this newsgroup who feel
that you have been the victim of a very unfortunate circumstance. IMO, you
were not helped at all by the crassness of some other individuals who were
all too ready to judge you, rather than help you.
.
Il Professore.
ilp...@thegrid.net .
David M. Evans
Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:09:58 +0100From:
Nicola Bailey <nicola...@virgin.net
I really don't know what the outcome will be. The actor has rung me and
apologised for what he said, but the origins haven't gone away.
______________________________________________________________________
Ok- In the interest of fairness, I will say this once GERT OUT OF THIS
RIDICULOUS EXCUSE FOR A THEATRE. Is your desire to be on stage so great
that you are willing to endure such gross humiliation and abuse????????
And is that is is so, then I am sorry to tell you this, but you have
problems that need to be addressed by a professional therapist,
otherwise I shudder to think what your life will be like.
This is not to say you are bad or sick, or anything negative. You are a
human being, with all the complexities that implies, including
personality traits that may not work in your best interests.--
Please do a little soul searching and try to be objective. It is not
acceptable to be willingly treated like this. Or TO ENDURE IT EITHER.
OK?
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in HERE! This is the war room!"
-President Merkin Muffley
Remove NOSPAM to reply
David M. Evans
individual might have some deeper issues going on way beyond being a
"victim". If this is the case, it needs to be pointed out to her, so
that hopefully, there will not be far more serious consequences for her
outside the theater. You know, in REAL life. It may seem harsh, but this
is the essence of REALLY helping. It is a kindness to have the courage
to tell people things they don't want to hear about themselves. If this
is not the case, then the advice given by Becky was the best of that
bunch.
Why do you keep wringing your hands over it?
AJ Davenport
If you ever have the opportunity to work with this person again and the problem
persists I think you've gotten some good feedback on how to deal with it. The
director's argument about realism can be refuted by citing any number of violent
plays that contain deaths. Would the audience not believe that Hamlet did not
result in the death of everyone unless there were 5 real dead bodies on stage?
Pointing out the flaw in his logic might help although from the way you describe
this "director" I doubt it.
Personally, the first time this "actor" tried this shit on me after being warned
about being too physical I probably would have hit him right back, and when he
threw a hissy fit about me hitting him, reply with something along the line of "I
got so caught up in my character's reaction that I had no way to control what
happened." After all this is his motivation for doing this.
The single best piece of advice you got was the person who suggested saying "OW!"
This would throw him off enough that he might stop.
The other thing that comes to mind is to bring the guy up on battery charges!
Hitting someone is against the law and warning him that his behavior might result
in your contacting the authorities might give him pause.
The other option is to refuse to do anymore shows with this team that involved
physical trauma period with the proviso that you would take the role only if you
got a professional fight choreographer.
Personally I think you might be better off never working with these jerks ever
again!
Next time, break his leg!
A J
Nicola Bailey wrote:
> I really don't know what the outcome will be. The actor has rung me and
> apologised for what he said, but the origins haven't gone away.
>
mary
If it is all Volunteer, start recruiting others in your area that feel the
same way and leave the two jerks out of it.
How is that for a suggestion?
Type...@webtv.net
it couldn't be worked out, I would politely resign the play and start an
improv group or something.
I can't belive that a director would condone such behavior. You simply
shouldn't be subjected to getting beat up. (even for money)
I'm glad the show is over.
SR
Daniel Gregory
All the best,
Dan