Need to Confess :(
Leaper
On 26 Jul 1997 22:31:00 -0700, Prism Collective
<sava...@Primenet.com> wrote:
>Last week I posted that I'm getting into a relationship, but
>what I didn't say is that this is really an affair. No he's not
>married, but he does have a girlfriend. He stays one week at
>her house and the next at his, so I guess you can say they are
>living together.
>
>Guys, I never thought I would have done this. I was always
>faithful to my husband. And I guess I thought I deserve to be
>happy. After I've knew this guy BEFORE he met his girlfriend
>and I like him then too. His girlfriend is nice. But when
>the affair started I never really gave her much of a thought
>except that it was a real pain in the ass that she was in
>the picture.
>
>So, tonight, we all end up at the same function together. OH JOY!
>And I get to spend 4 1/2 hours watching them together, hugging,
>kissing, whispering together too. I get to see how many friends
>this woman has in NA (you see she is new to the program and
>I guess I thought, no big loss (oh god what a bitch I can be))
>But tonight I got to see this and it started to dawn on me how
>this could affect HER life, but most of all How IF ANYONE finds
>out it will affect MY life. Yes I know selfish to the core!
>If it's found out, my name will be mud! I'll have half of NA
>talking about me, and the other half hating me!
>
I'm not criticizing you here, Kaitlin, but isn't it already affecting
your life in that you have to watch him with her and remain silent,
keep the secret?
>I'm so confused. Funny thinking of myself as "the other woman!"
>I'm really not the type guys, and I'm REALLY not the type to have
>an affair which of course is bases on SEX! That part really really
>blows my mind!
>
You know something, though, as far as the "other woman" stuff, I don't
think that's anything to really be ashamed of. It's HIS call to make
the decision whether he's willing to have a second woman in his life.
I'm concerned about you, though, in that it's pretty obvious that your
involvement with him is secretive. I just hope you don't end up
getting hurt.
>I'm not blaming HIM for this stuff. He'll have to deal with his
>part himself. Once he told me how he felt and it was the same way
>I felt, I did fight this happening. My head ran with, yes, no, yes
>no for nights. I was the one who kissed him first, and when we
>first did have sex it was ME who pretty much drag him into the bed
>room. And that night my head didn't run, I was glad I did what I did.
>Still am glad to a point, but now after today here is my head running
>again, only this time on HER, how she will feel, and knowing it WILL
>have major impact on my life too.
>
I understand. These are natural feelings.
>Will this keep going on? Your guess is as good as mine. I really didn't
>think I'd do this in the first place, but there I was making the moves,
>and doing it. Can I stop it now? I don't know that either. Even
>knowing this will end up being nothing but a big mess? Hell I'm an
>addict, and this has been my life. The question is am I far along
>in my recovery to do what is right?
>
Tough questions. But sometimes I think that if you go into something
with your eyes open and realize that it might blow up in your face
someday, you're at least being realistic and accepting what it offers
you now.
>I'd also like to say this. A large part of me IS glad I did this.
>No not the "he's taken" part, but I faced a big fear. I've only
>been with my ex husband (not including the perps) and I've not
>been with anyone for 3 1/2 years now, so this was really scarry
>and a big risk, but I faced that fear, so for that I'm really glad,
>but now.........
>
See, this is important. There is risk here, and there is the potential
that you will be hurt, but you took a big and scary step in having sex
with someone again. That may be worth the potential bad stuff, just to
know that you could do that.
>Sometimes life sucks and then just gets worse!
>
But sometimes it opens our eyes and makes us think, doesn't it?
>Think what you will of me, it's ok. geode in an email
>just two weeks ago I told you I'm not like this. Maybe I just didn't
>know I really was. :(
>
>Kaitlyn
>
There really is no "like this," Kaitlyn, and I will not judge you.
You're not a monster because you happened to get into a sexual
relationship with someone who has a girlfriend, and doing so doesn't
mean you're any certain way. This man just came along at a point in
your life where you were ready to explore again ... and maybe it's
just another step for you in your recovery.
Laurie
Dave Toland
Kaitlin,
I didn't see your original message, so I'll respondto both you
and crisis here, if you don't mind.
(crisisgal) wrote:
> In <Pine.BSI.3.96.970726...@usr07.primenet.com> Prism
> Collective <sava...@Primenet.com> writes:
> >
> >Last week I posted that I'm getting into a relationship, but
> >what I didn't say is that this is really an affair. No he's not
> >married, but he does have a girlfriend. He stays one week at
> >her house and the next at his, so I guess you can say they are
> >living together.
Well, I don't know if I'd call that living together, but it does sound
like he's a bit involved.
But then again, if he's getting involved with you, then he seems not
to be very exclusively committed to her, either.
But it is bound to be complicated, at least.
> Ooops well Kait... it was nice knowing you.....
>
> Silly.... golly I know it feels bad when you have done something you
> don't approve of in others, but shucks we all do it. I yes, (hangs
> head) in my time have dated married and otherwise taken men, did it
> exclusively for a while, there was less involvement. I could be madly
> in love and not have to make life changing permanent decisions.
Yep, crisis, been there done that.
> Selfish? yes...... safe? Yes. For me at that time that was the type of
> relationship that was safe, fun but no real solid future.
Well, it carries a lot of heartbreak of its own too. Especially when
you want it to be more and it cannot be.
> >Guys, I never thought I would have done this. I was always
> >faithful to my husband.
>
> When I was in a relationship I was always faithful too, although
> looking back on it, it was kinda pointless because often "they"
> weren't. grrrr....
I've always been faithful in my relationships too. Even when I wasn't
being exclusive, I've always been very open about it to those I was
involved with.
To my knowledge, only one of my partners ever broke faith with me. And
she decided to open up to me about it, without excuses, afterward, so I
hold no ill feelings toward her over that either.
But crisis, Don't ever think your keeping faith was pointless. When you
look in the mirror each day, you can meet the gaze before you. And no
matter what the other person chose to do, isn't that the *real* point?
> And I guess I thought I deserve to be
> >happy.
>
> Why think it, of course you deserve it.
I agree.
> After I've knew this guy BEFORE he met his girlfriend
> >and I like him then too. His girlfriend is nice. But when
> >the affair started I never really gave her much of a thought
> >except that it was a real pain in the ass that she was in
> >the picture.
>
> This is reasonable and after all they are really "married". Its not
I think you meant *not* really married, right? :-)
> like you are acting like the whore of Babylon, you are merely dating a
> man who is dating another woman in addition to dating you. It is
> perfectly acceptable behavior. If he has made some sort of committment
> to her, I believe the problem is on his side and not yours, you have
> made no committmemt to her.
<nod> I also would add this: Your relationship with him does not really
take anything from her. Only he can decide how much of himself he is
willing to give to each of you. He may in fact need to "test the
waters"
to know where his own feelings lie. The hurt doesn't come from him not
giving all his love to her, it is more likely to come from him not being
open and honest with her. And that is between him and her, not between
you and him.
> >So, tonight, we all end up at the same function together. OH JOY!
>
> Giggle....life has a way of kicking you in the butt doesn't it??? I'd
> be inclined to leave and stop at Blockbuster on my way home and make
> some popcorn and share it with Buford.
>
> >And I get to spend 4 1/2 hours watching them together, hugging,
> >kissing, whispering together too.
Kaitlin, you know he has the other relationship too though. If you need
someone to be always there for you, he probably is not the best choice.
OTOH, maybe what you were feeling there was a fear that you will lose
what part of him you have, because he is seemingly happy with her.
And that might be her fear as well, if she saw you and him together.
It's a valid fear, especially when people are inclined to push him to
choose. But unless he's playing you (or playing her), he probably cares
a lot about both of you.
> Kait....sigh... why didn't you just leave? Blockbuster and buford
> would have been much more fun. You beat yourself up for four hours. I
> have a definite problem with this guy's behavior not yours.
Well, crisis, the only part I would really have a problem with is if
he is keeping Kaitlyn secret from his girlfriend. That's a nasty
situation, and an explosive one.
> I get to see how many friends
> >this woman has in NA (you see she is new to the program and
> >I guess I thought, no big loss (oh god what a bitch I can be))
>
> New blood in AA or NA always gets a "lot" of attention.
>
> >But tonight I got to see this and it started to dawn on me how
> >this could affect HER life, but most of all How IF ANYONE finds
> >out it will affect MY life. Yes I know selfish to the core!
You say this as if it's a bad thing. How it affects your life should
be most important. I agree it's good to think of the effect your
actions may have on others also. And it looks like you are trying
to see things from her side as well, so you don't sound all that
self-absorbed.
> Thinking of yourself before considering a stranger's feelings is
> natural and intelligent. I would be angry at you if you didn't
> consider the effect of the situation on you first. We have been taught
> for years to consider feelings of people who do not consider our
> feelings at all. Part of our healing is to consider our feelings first
> because we have never done that before.
Exactly.
> She is responsible for her choices just like the rest of us. She made
> a bad one in giving her heart to this dude and if it hadn't been you he
> was dating in addition to her it would be someone else.
Maybe. We're only assuming he's keeping her in the dark about Kaitlyn.
Probably a good assumption, but not a foregone conclusion. And he may
yet tell her. I don't know how long this three-way relationship has
gone on. The longer it does without her being told, the worse it will
be when she finds out.
> I hope you
> haven't put too much of an emotional investment in this guy because he
> really didn't consider your feelings too much as he was a hugging and
> kissing with her while you were there.
I don't necessarily agree. If he withholds his affection for this other
girl because Kaitlyn was in the vicinity, then Kaitlyn's relationship
with him *is* taking something away from her. He went to that function
with her. However, that assumes that he would give Kaitlyn his full
attention if the situation were reversed. And it sounds more like he
is not being open about his relationship with Kaitlyn.
> Sounds like he is not a
> particularly good catch for the long run. But then ..... might be some
> fun in the short run, but don't give your heart away there Kait, save
> it for someone who will value it more.
This I do agree with.
> >If it's found out, my name will be mud! I'll have half of NA
> >talking about me, and the other half hating me!
If that's the case, then this sounds like a very costly relationship
indeed.
> From what I have seen of NA that happens a lot and the next week they
> will move on to inspecting someone else's behavior. Its a revolving
> kind of thing. Don't judge yourself so harshly. So you had an affair.
> Good for you!!! I hope you had fun!!! I hope you felt wanted and light
> and lovely and sexy and free!!!! That is good for the soul.
Very true.
> >I'm so confused. Funny thinking of myself as "the other woman!"
>
> Pooh, you may be one of many. I don't know this man, but from what you
> have stated here - loyalty is not one of his strong points and it
> needn't be, you just have to approach relationships with people like
> that with your eyes wide open and not expect to get what isn't there.
> Just enjoy life's moments Kait, if you had fun with him - cool. Decide
> what you want out of a relationship, if it is permanence and
> committment, maybe this isn't the guy. But the other girl is not his
> wife and she is responsible for her choices - you aren't.
And he is responsible for his choices too. As are you, Kaitlyn.
If it feels wrong, then perhaps you need to step away. For yourself.
> >I'm really not the type guys, and I'm REALLY not the type to have
> >an affair which of course is bases on SEX! That part really really
> >blows my mind!
<smile> That's not such a bad thing. I'd be more worried if it were
based
on resentment for this woman, or possession of this man.
> I'm glad you could feel free enough to do this. Its not a life long
> committment, it was just s-e-x.
And it's sure good for the ego to be found desirable. Doesn't have to
be
a forever relationship to be good for both of you.
> >I'm not blaming HIM for this stuff.
Well, *blame* may be a bit strong. But he is making his choices here
too.
> For what stuff? He is responsible for his choices and any garbage he
> leaves behind him.
>
> He'll have to deal with his
> >part himself. Once he told me how he felt and it was the same way
> >I felt, I did fight this happening. My head ran with, yes, no, yes
> >no for nights.
>
> Sounds like hormones to me. Thats cool. Like I said above it was not
> a life long committment, it was sex, it was touching another human on
> many levels and that is very very nice.
Yes indeed.
> I was the one who kissed him first, and when we
> >first did have sex it was ME who pretty much drag him into the bed
> >room. And that night my head didn't run, I was glad I did what I did.
> >Still am glad to a point
Good!
> I am too.
>
> , but now after today here is my head running
> >again, only this time on HER, how she will feel, and knowing it WILL
> >have major impact on my life too.
It could... That's certainly a good reason to reevaluate it.
But not to tear yourself down over it.
> Only if you let it. It was not something life changing, at least it
> doesn't need to be.
>
> Its that all or nothing thing we have spoken of before Kait.
> Everything in life is not all or nothing. You can have an affair and
> have it remain just that, a momentary fling, it needn't effect lives
> forever, sometimes just for a very nice moment and (gasp!!) you can
> even remain friends when it is over.
Absolutely!
> >Will this keep going on? Your guess is as good as mine.
>
> Kait you are sounding like you have no control in this situation and
> you do, it is your choice if it keeps on going, don't let things in
> your life just happen take control and make what you want to happen.
> But choose carefully. You carry your own safety with you now.
>
> I really didn't
> >think I'd do this in the first place, but there I was making the
> moves,
> >and doing it. Can I stop it now? I don't know that either.
Sure you can, if that's what you need to do. Or you may decide you
have as much right to see him as she does - which is totally true too.
> Pooh, being old and wise, I know that I can stop anything I want to.
> Sometimes its fun and I don't want to, but I don't doubt my ability to
> control my life. Kait its ok to have fun and to want to have fun and
> its also ok to end it when "you" think its time. You have choices now.
>
> Even
> >knowing this will end up being nothing but a big mess? Hell I'm an
> >addict, and this has been my life.
Yup, it could become a huge mess. That potential is always there in
a relationship though. Is it worth that risk? That is the question
to keep asking yourself. Weigh the cost to yourself, and to others
(scaled accordingly) against the good to yourself. And to others -
if you are going to weigh damage to others in your deliberations,
shouldn't you also weigh in the good for others too? After all,
he is enjoying this too, even if h is also doing some soul searching
of his own.
> Being an addict is different than controlling what happens in your
> life. Life is not a drug and you can take control without withdrawal.
> It took me a llllloooonnnnng time to learn that.
>
> The question is am I far along
> >in my recovery to do what is right?
>
> I don't understand what this means.
Nor I. Every day you simply make the best decisions you can. For you.
> >I'd also like to say this. A large part of me IS glad I did this.
> >No not the "he's taken" part, but I faced a big fear. I've only
> >been with my ex husband (not including the perps) and I've not
> >been with anyone for 3 1/2 years now, so this was really scarry
> >and a big risk, but I faced that fear, so for that I'm really glad,
> >but now.........
>
> I understand this perfectly and I have been there and after that length
> of time I applaud you for taking the risk and facing the fear and am
> very very glad that you had the courage to do that. So forget the bad
> stuff and feel really good about the control and courage it took.
> >
> >Sometimes life sucks and then just gets worse!
And sometimes sex is just sex.
> Nope, I see this as a positive. You know you can have sex and the
> world won't cave in and terrible things won't happen, you won't get
> beaten or raped and you can feel good. AND, you don't have to be in a
> life time committment to do it.
> >
> >Think what you will of me, it's ok. geode in an email
> >just two weeks ago I told you I'm not like this. Maybe I just didn't
> >know I really was. :(
>
> You were right the first time, you are not like you think you are. You
> are a woman with normal desires and you acted on them. I think that is
> very very cool. So find yourself a guy now with whom you can take the
> next step and trust mentally and physically and actually build a
> relationship. You deserve it Kait, you are a really neat lady and I
> like you a lot.
> >
> >Kaitlyn
> >
> Hugs
>
> Crisis
Peace and strength,
Tide Rider
--
Home is within you
Dave Toland http://www.kersur.net/~det/ d...@kersur.net
(crisisgal)
In <Pine.BSI.3.96.970726...@usr07.primenet.com> Prism
Collective <sava...@Primenet.com> writes:
>
>Last week I posted that I'm getting into a relationship, but
>what I didn't say is that this is really an affair. No he's not
>married, but he does have a girlfriend. He stays one week at
>her house and the next at his, so I guess you can say they are
>living together.
Ooops well Kait... it was nice knowing you.....
Silly.... golly I know it feels bad when you have done something you
don't approve of in others, but shucks we all do it. I yes, (hangs
head) in my time have dated married and otherwise taken men, did it
exclusively for a while, there was less involvement. I could be madly
in love and not have to make life changing permanent decisions.
Selfish? yes...... safe? Yes. For me at that time that was the type of
relationship that was safe, fun but no real solid future.
>
>Guys, I never thought I would have done this. I was always
>faithful to my husband.
When I was in a relationship I was always faithful too, although
looking back on it, it was kinda pointless because often "they"
weren't. grrrr....
And I guess I thought I deserve to be
>happy.
Why think it, of course you deserve it.
After I've knew this guy BEFORE he met his girlfriend
>and I like him then too. His girlfriend is nice. But when
>the affair started I never really gave her much of a thought
>except that it was a real pain in the ass that she was in
>the picture.
This is reasonable and after all they are really "married". Its not
like you are acting like the whore of Babylon, you are merely dating a
man who is dating another woman in addition to dating you. It is
perfectly acceptable behavior. If he has made some sort of committment
to her, I believe the problem is on his side and not yours, you have
made no committmemt to her.
>
>So, tonight, we all end up at the same function together. OH JOY!
Giggle....life has a way of kicking you in the butt doesn't it??? I'd
be inclined to leave and stop at Blockbuster on my way home and make
some popcorn and share it with Buford.
>And I get to spend 4 1/2 hours watching them together, hugging,
>kissing, whispering together too.
Kait....sigh... why didn't you just leave? Blockbuster and buford
would have been much more fun. You beat yourself up for four hours. I
have a definite problem with this guy's behavior not yours.
I get to see how many friends
>this woman has in NA (you see she is new to the program and
>I guess I thought, no big loss (oh god what a bitch I can be))
New blood in AA or NA always gets a "lot" of attention.
>But tonight I got to see this and it started to dawn on me how
>this could affect HER life, but most of all How IF ANYONE finds
>out it will affect MY life. Yes I know selfish to the core!
Thinking of yourself before considering a stranger's feelings is
natural and intelligent. I would be angry at you if you didn't
consider the effect of the situation on you first. We have been taught
for years to consider feelings of people who do not consider our
feelings at all. Part of our healing is to consider our feelings first
because we have never done that before.
She is responsible for her choices just like the rest of us. She made
a bad one in giving her heart to this dude and if it hadn't been you he
was dating in addition to her it would be someone else. I hope you
haven't put too much of an emotional investment in this guy because he
really didn't consider your feelings too much as he was a hugging and
kissing with her while you were there. Sounds like he is not a
particularly good catch for the long run. But then ..... might be some
fun in the short run, but don't give your heart away there Kait, save
it for someone who will value it more.
>If it's found out, my name will be mud! I'll have half of NA
>talking about me, and the other half hating me!
From what I have seen of NA that happens a lot and the next week they
will move on to inspecting someone else's behavior. Its a revolving
kind of thing. Don't judge yourself so harshly. So you had an affair.
Good for you!!! I hope you had fun!!! I hope you felt wanted and light
and lovely and sexy and free!!!! That is good for the soul.
>
>I'm so confused. Funny thinking of myself as "the other woman!"
Pooh, you may be one of many. I don't know this man, but from what you
have stated here - loyalty is not one of his strong points and it
needn't be, you just have to approach relationships with people like
that with your eyes wide open and not expect to get what isn't there.
Just enjoy life's moments Kait, if you had fun with him - cool. Decide
what you want out of a relationship, if it is permanence and
committment, maybe this isn't the guy. But the other girl is not his
wife and she is responsible for her choices - you aren't.
>I'm really not the type guys, and I'm REALLY not the type to have
>an affair which of course is bases on SEX! That part really really
>blows my mind!
I'm glad you could feel free enough to do this. Its not a life long
committment, it was just s-e-x.
>
>I'm not blaming HIM for this stuff.
For what stuff? He is responsible for his choices and any garbage he
leaves behind him.
He'll have to deal with his
>part himself. Once he told me how he felt and it was the same way
>I felt, I did fight this happening. My head ran with, yes, no, yes
>no for nights.
Sounds like hormones to me. Thats cool. Like I said above it was not
a life long committment, it was sex, it was touching another human on
many levels and that is very very nice.
I was the one who kissed him first, and when we
>first did have sex it was ME who pretty much drag him into the bed
>room. And that night my head didn't run, I was glad I did what I did.
>Still am glad to a point
I am too.
, but now after today here is my head running
>again, only this time on HER, how she will feel, and knowing it WILL
>have major impact on my life too.
Only if you let it. It was not something life changing, at least it
doesn't need to be.
Its that all or nothing thing we have spoken of before Kait.
Everything in life is not all or nothing. You can have an affair and
have it remain just that, a momentary fling, it needn't effect lives
forever, sometimes just for a very nice moment and (gasp!!) you can
even remain friends when it is over.
>
>Will this keep going on? Your guess is as good as mine.
Kait you are sounding like you have no control in this situation and
you do, it is your choice if it keeps on going, don't let things in
your life just happen take control and make what you want to happen.
But choose carefully. You carry your own safety with you now.
I really didn't
>think I'd do this in the first place, but there I was making the
moves,
>and doing it. Can I stop it now? I don't know that either.
Pooh, being old and wise, I know that I can stop anything I want to.
Sometimes its fun and I don't want to, but I don't doubt my ability to
control my life. Kait its ok to have fun and to want to have fun and
its also ok to end it when "you" think its time. You have choices now.
Even
>knowing this will end up being nothing but a big mess? Hell I'm an
>addict, and this has been my life.
Being an addict is different than controlling what happens in your
life. Life is not a drug and you can take control without withdrawal.
It took me a llllloooonnnnng time to learn that.
The question is am I far along
>in my recovery to do what is right?
I don't understand what this means.
>
>I'd also like to say this. A large part of me IS glad I did this.
>No not the "he's taken" part, but I faced a big fear. I've only
>been with my ex husband (not including the perps) and I've not
>been with anyone for 3 1/2 years now, so this was really scarry
>and a big risk, but I faced that fear, so for that I'm really glad,
>but now.........
I understand this perfectly and I have been there and after that length
of time I applaud you for taking the risk and facing the fear and am
very very glad that you had the courage to do that. So forget the bad
stuff and feel really good about the control and courage it took.
>
>Sometimes life sucks and then just gets worse!
Nope, I see this as a positive. You know you can have sex and the
Cristi Cave
In article <Pine.BSI.3.96.970726...@usr07.primenet.com> Prism Collective <sava...@Primenet.com> writes:
<post heavily snipped>
>Last week I posted that I'm getting into a relationship, but
>what I didn't say is that this is really an affair.
>Guys, I never thought I would have done this.
>But tonight I got to see this and it started to dawn on me how
>this could affect HER life, but most of all How IF ANYONE finds
>out it will affect MY life. Yes I know selfish to the core!
>If it's found out, my name will be mud! I'll have half of NA
>talking about me, and the other half hating me!
>I'm so confused. Funny thinking of myself as "the other woman!"
>I'm really not the type guys, and I'm REALLY not the type to have
>an affair which of course is bases on SEX! That part really really
>blows my mind!
>Still am glad to a point, but now after today here is my head running
>again, only this time on HER, how she will feel, and knowing it WILL
>have major impact on my life too.
>Will this keep going on? Your guess is as good as mine. I really didn't
>think I'd do this in the first place, but there I was making the moves,
>and doing it. Can I stop it now? I don't know that either. Even
>knowing this will end up being nothing but a big mess? Hell I'm an
>addict, and this has been my life. The question is am I far along
>in my recovery to do what is right?
>I'd also like to say this. A large part of me IS glad I did this.
>No not the "he's taken" part, but I faced a big fear. I've only
>been with my ex husband (not including the perps) and I've not
>been with anyone for 3 1/2 years now, so this was really scarry
>and a big risk, but I faced that fear, so for that I'm really glad,
>but now.........
>Think what you will of me, it's ok. geode in an email
>just two weeks ago I told you I'm not like this. Maybe I just didn't
>know I really was. :(
kaitlyn: i think that those of us who have been muddled from early on about
our sexuality and our sexual values have a lot of learning to do, and much of
that learning can be very, very, hard. and painful. for you, and for
everyone else involved. but i don't think that what we do is what we are.
you know, early on we learned that we couldn't just swallow whole what our
society was teaching us about sexual values, as they didn't fit us, but what
were we to keep and what to throw out? i found out eventually from my
muddled-up sexual values that i am an extremely straight-laced person as far
as monogamy goes--but it took me 40 years to figure this out, and i've
certainly not acted like this in the meantime. i've been in the same kind of
situation that you are in. it doesn't give you a label, or a character, IMHO,
it just makes you a normal person who is out there trying to figure things
out. (i get this idea from what you wrote about why you are glad you did it).
not only that, but a lot of people muddle along in the same old groove until
one day they suddenly freak out and say, hey, wait, am i doing the right
thing, here? then they go out and try everything for awhile. you know, like
a mid-life crisis. for women (at least for lesbians), i see that most often
at ages 28 and 40--it's like we have to go over two humps.
well. hope i made some sense.
um. i don't like to give advice or anything. but i feel like i need to tell
you: i have never been in a situation even remotely like yours that did not
involve tremendous pain to myself...eventually. be careful with yourself, ok?
cristi
http://www.serv.net/~sparrow/
NEW!!! You didn't ask for it, and you're getting it anyway!
Check out the new poetry addition...
IceAngel
For the first time in a long time, I am actually finding myself afraid to
say anything about anything here on aar, and I'm really wishing not to do
so. But this is important on several counts. Important because Kait's my
friend. Important because Kait's feeling like she did something wrong
here....and if she did, then so have I along these same lines---and so, I
suspect, have lots of others. And I don't think I'm too sure that any of
us have done anything "wrong" when it comes to love and sex and affairs
and relationships. Not ultimately.
So, I thank you for "confessing" Kait, because this is something I too
have struggled with for lo these many years. In a complex set of
circumstances of my life. So your delightful sinfulness and admission of
same has opened a door for me to be able to think some more of this through
for myself. Even though I've already done the majority of this
thinking-through over the years.
I'll probably clip some of what you and Crisis have said here, Kaitlyn,
because I agree with almost all that Crisis has told
you....wholeheartedly...and she's saying it so beautifully and
extraordinarily insightfully that she just doesn't need my help here.
In article <5rev6g$q...@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com>,
(crisisgal) <cri...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In <Pine.BSI.3.96.970726...@usr07.primenet.com> Prism
>Collective <sava...@Primenet.com> writes:
>>
>>Last week I posted that I'm getting into a relationship, but
>>what I didn't say is that this is really an affair. No he's not
>>married, but he does have a girlfriend. He stays one week at
>>her house and the next at his, so I guess you can say they are
>>living together.
>
>Ooops well Kait... it was nice knowing you.....
[...]
>>So, tonight, we all end up at the same function together. OH JOY!
ouch :(
>
>Giggle....life has a way of kicking you in the butt doesn't it??? I'd
>be inclined to leave and stop at Blockbuster on my way home and make
>some popcorn and share it with Buford.
I'd be inclined to ask you to take me home with you and Buford. Before I
could do something really foolish....like slap him silly. Or after I did
it. Not because he was there with her and not with me...because he didn't
have the decency to treat me decently while in a difficult situation.
I once, a few years ago, found myself in a very similar situation. Only I
was in the guy's home with his wife, his brother, his sister-in-law, and
a friend of mine present. It turned out to feel a little ugly for me,
although I wasn't particularly uncomfortable for most of it. It got ugly,
not because of him or her...but because of my friend, who was so
extremely uncomfortable herself that she triggered out one of her
baby-alters. (Details are meaningless here, so that's all I'll say about
that.)
But it wasn't uncomfortable for me on the whole, because he had total and
complete decency about the situation. Toward me, toward his spouse,
toward himself most of all.
(Of course...at the time he was recovering from a bad accident, and he
was on some pretty potent painkillers I think...so he might have been
just numby and incapable of being INdecent. Had he been in better shape,
he might have dragged me off to the back yard and gotten us in total
trouble for our ability to become so deliciously indecent with one
another under better circumstances...who knows? who can tell?) :)
[...]
>
>>I'm really not the type guys, and I'm REALLY not the type to have
>>an affair which of course is bases on SEX! That part really really
>>blows my mind!
>
>I'm glad you could feel free enough to do this. Its not a life long
>committment, it was just s-e-x.
>>
>>I'm not blaming HIM for this stuff.
>
>For what stuff? He is responsible for his choices and any garbage he
>leaves behind him.
<geode whistles low and slow> Goooooooood one, CrisisGal! Absolutely a
direct hit on the mark!
(Pay attention to her here on this, Kait...it could determine a loving
outcome in your thinking about yourself if you can just get this one
simple truth and proceed from there with it as your eternal guide in these
things.)
[...]
>>Sometimes life sucks and then just gets worse!
('Scuse me, Crisis....)
*HUG* Kaitlyn (you too Crisis...*HUG*).
Yep...sometimes life sucks and then just gets worse. But sometimes we
only *think* life sucks because we're being hard on ourselves about the
things we do. And if we can let go of the self-condemnation long enough,
we can get past the suckiness of life because *we're* who's making it
sucky for ourselves. (I hate that "suck*" expression btw...sounds
obscene, but so true.)
Sometimes life unsucks when we stop to realize that we're just human
beings doing what human beings do and not needing to prove ourselves or
please anyone any longer. Not needing to be perfect. And part of that is
learning to realize that we can do what feels imperfect or even downright
BAD and still know it's perfect for us at the time we do it. Even if it
wouldn't have been perfect for us a minute or a day or a lifetime before
we did it. Even if it's no longer perfect after we've moved away from
wanting or needing to do it at some later date.
I regret nothing about any moment I've spent involved with a "taken" man.
Even when I often think I'm gonna spend a little or a lot of time in Hell
for it one of these days. I figure I'll just meet up with him there too
and we'll finally be together for eternity. :) After all...I didn't do
the "sin" all by myself, now did I?
I'm almost sort of kind of half-joking here. I think. The truth is, I
figure I've done plenty of hell-time already from these sorts of
things....like your four+ hours at NA that night, being involved with
someone already otherwise involved can be its own special unique brand of
Hell....except I've often had trouble moving beyond the sheer heaven
aspect of it to see that. Until it was over. (Am I rambling and getting
myself in a whole heavenly host of trouble with everyone here? Hope not.
These are just thoughts that roam in my mind sometimes...especially late
at night when I'm alone and lonely...see? Okay?) <still scared here> :(
(rescue me here, Crisis-----back to what you were saying......)
>
>Nope, I see this as a positive. You know you can have sex and the
>world won't cave in and terrible things won't happen, you won't get
>beaten or raped and you can feel good. AND, you don't have to be in a
>life time committment to do it.
>>
>>Think what you will of me, it's ok. geode in an email
>>just two weeks ago I told you I'm not like this. Maybe I just didn't
>>know I really was. :(
*HUG AGAIN* Kait. Now straighten up and stop hitting yourself with this.
"Like this" means....what?
IMO, there IS no "like this" in most of the affairs (sorry...no pun
intended really) of humans. We only stereotype ourselves and one another
for convenience you know. To put order into a world of chaos so that we
can try to make sense of things and people around us and tidy things up
and make them predictable, cause that's how humans can survive best.
But if you get right down to it...there IS no "like this" because every
single person is unique in some little and big ways. And every two people
interacting together are unique in many major ways. And every situation
in which one or two or more people find themselves carries its own
special subtleties and characteristics that make *it* unique. See?
So, you may be "like" some mythical "this" in *this* particular
relationship, but not "like this" in terms of who you see yourself as
being over your lifetime as a whole person. Those are not contradictory
images of yourself. And that's why I would never label you (or anyone,
other than professionally, because I have to do that for practical
reasons) as any sort of stereotype. That's how we often find ourselves in
trouble with others, IMO. We either are or do judge a person's actions to
be indicative of the person's character/personality/morality based on one
(or even more) incidents/situations and with only the overt "what it
looks like to me standing here outside you and your situation"...without
ever caring about all the covert intricacies in the person's behavior or
attitude or situation or past/present/future interactions with
others...unless those are interactions we've had with that person
ourselves.
<she says judgmentally>
Okay....so I took the ball and ran here. Did I make a touchdown? Or did I
fumble the play. :)
Kait, my friend. Listen to me please, cause you've got enough going on
that you are trying to deal with, and you don't need to be having to worry
about what I'm sitting here thinking of you. When you told me that in
email, I couldn't respond at the time, because I needed to do some
thinking about it all. Well, I've thought about it all, helped along here
by your revelation of your situation and your feelings you're showing
here. Kaitlyn, in terms of the thing we were talking about in email, if
you are "like that" then so am I. He was "taken" long before I "took him"
myself....and before others came along and "took him from" me. And even
though I've said here that I don't believe in such a concept as "like
that"....well, for the sake of argument, let me just say this:
If you are like that then so am I. And if I am like that....well, so what
if we are?
We get to be who and how we are until we decide to change that in us, if
ever. In any part of us, we get to do that, I believe. Because there's
always a good reason and a good purpose for what anyone does in regard to
themselves and their lives and others around them. I do believe this. The
reason and purpose may not feel all that good to someone else, and that
does make me very sorry when it happens and I've created a reason for
someone else to not feel good. But if I were to put myself into a box and
label myself "like that" for all time to come once I've done something
that may or may not have been so good for me or others....I might as well
go ahead and just give it up and voluntarily take that long slow descent
into my own private Hell on earth.
And I don't wanta go there, cause I've been there too often and I'll
probably be there again soon enough for some reason or another anyway. So
I don't wanta volunteer; let me be drafted if that's the way it's gotta
be. :)
>
>You were right the first time, you are not like you think you are. You
>are a woman with normal desires and you acted on them. I think that is
>very very cool. So find yourself a guy now with whom you can take the
>next step and trust mentally and physically and actually build a
>relationship. You deserve it Kait, you are a really neat lady and I
>like you a lot.
>>
>>Kaitlyn
>>
>Hugs
>
>Crisis
geode
(crisisgal)
In <geodeED...@netcom.com> ge...@netcom.com (IceAngel) writes:
>
>
>For the first time in a long time, I am actually finding myself afraid
to
>say anything about anything here on aar, and I'm really wishing not to
do
>so. But this is important on several counts. Important because Kait's
my
>friend. Important because Kait's feeling like she did something wrong
>here....and if she did, then so have I along these same lines---and
so, I
>suspect, have lots of others.
Zooooommmmm........crisis rides up in the little white car, Etta James
blasting "Love's been Rough on Me", with Buford's ears blowing in the
wind as he sits beside her. One of those others reporting for duty,
And I don't think I'm too sure that any of
>us have done anything "wrong" when it comes to love and sex and
affairs
>and relationships. Not ultimately.
I dont think I too sure either. I agree with you sparklely one, but
then I usually do.
>
>So, I thank you for "confessing" Kait, because this is something I too
>have struggled with for lo these many years. In a complex set of
>circumstances of my life. So your delightful sinfulness and admission
of
>same has opened a door for me to be able to think some more of this
through
>for myself. Even though I've already done the majority of this
>thinking-through over the years.
>
>I'll probably clip some of what you and Crisis have said here,
Kaitlyn,
>because I agree with almost all that Crisis has told
>you....wholeheartedly...and she's saying it so beautifully and
>extraordinarily insightfully that she just doesn't need my help here.
That's cause I listen to Etta James - (grin) Hop in we'll take a spin
while they read. Buford can sit on the storage compartment back there,
I tied him down. So whats been happening??? I know this great little
piano bar down Westheimer - grrreat Italian food, lottsa interesting
folk to talk to.
>
>
>In article <5rev6g$q...@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com>,
>(crisisgal) <cri...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>In <Pine.BSI.3.96.970726...@usr07.primenet.com>
Prism
>>Collective <sava...@Primenet.com> writes:
>>>
>>>Last week I posted that I'm getting into a relationship, but
>>>what I didn't say is that this is really an affair. No he's not
>>>married, but he does have a girlfriend. He stays one week at
>>>her house and the next at his, so I guess you can say they are
>>>living together.
>>
>>Ooops well Kait... it was nice knowing you.....
>
>[...]
Was kidding here. I hope you know that Kait!!!
>
>>>So, tonight, we all end up at the same function together. OH JOY!
>
>ouch :(
>
>>
>>Giggle....life has a way of kicking you in the butt doesn't it??? I'd
>>be inclined to leave and stop at Blockbuster on my way home and make
>>some popcorn and share it with Buford.
>
>I'd be inclined to ask you to take me home with you and Buford. Before
I
>could do something really foolish....like slap him silly. Or after I
did
>it. Not because he was there with her and not with me...because he
didn't
>have the decency to treat me decently while in a difficult situation.
>
>I once, a few years ago, found myself in a very similar situation.
Only I
>was in the guy's home with his wife, his brother, his sister-in-law,
and
>a friend of mine present. It turned out to feel a little ugly for me,
>although I wasn't particularly uncomfortable for most of it. It got
ugly,
>not because of him or her...but because of my friend, who was so
>extremely uncomfortable herself that she triggered out one of her
>baby-alters. (Details are meaningless here, so that's all I'll say
about
>that.)
Oh my that must have been a real nightmare. I cannot imagine what you
felt, I would have wanted to run for the door and hurl in the yard. I'm
sooo gentile. (thats cultured not unjewish, I can't spell so I thought
I'd explain)
>
>But it wasn't uncomfortable for me on the whole, because he had total
and
>complete decency about the situation. Toward me, toward his spouse,
>toward himself most of all.
>
>(Of course...at the time he was recovering from a bad accident, and he
>was on some pretty potent painkillers I think...so he might have been
>just numby and incapable of being INdecent.
Better living through chemistry. I'd like to think he was decent.
Had he been in better shape,
>he might have dragged me off to the back yard and gotten us in total
>trouble for our ability to become so deliciously indecent with one
>another under better circumstances...who knows? who can tell?) :)
>
>[...]
>
>>
>>>I'm really not the type guys, and I'm REALLY not the type to have
>>>an affair which of course is bases on SEX! That part really really
>>>blows my mind!
>>
>>I'm glad you could feel free enough to do this. Its not a life long
>>committment, it was just s-e-x.
>>>
>>>I'm not blaming HIM for this stuff.
>>
>>For what stuff? He is responsible for his choices and any garbage he
>>leaves behind him.
>
><geode whistles low and slow> Goooooooood one, CrisisGal! Absolutely a
>direct hit on the mark!
Crisis looks at her fingernails, blows on them and shines them on her
shirt ... thanks.
>
>(Pay attention to her here on this, Kait...it could determine a loving
>outcome in your thinking about yourself if you can just get this one
>simple truth and proceed from there with it as your eternal guide in
these
>things.)
>
>[...]
>
>>>Sometimes life sucks and then just gets worse!
>
>('Scuse me, Crisis....)
>
>*HUG* Kaitlyn (you too Crisis...*HUG*).
>
>Yep...sometimes life sucks and then just gets worse. But sometimes we
>only *think* life sucks because we're being hard on ourselves about
the
>things we do. And if we can let go of the self-condemnation long
enough,
>we can get past the suckiness of life because *we're* who's making it
>sucky for ourselves. (I hate that "suck*" expression btw...sounds
>obscene, but so true.)
I agree wholeheartedly
>
>Sometimes life unsucks when we stop to realize that we're just human
>beings doing what human beings do and not needing to prove ourselves
or
>please anyone any longer. Not needing to be perfect. And part of that
is
>learning to realize that we can do what feels imperfect or even
downright
>BAD and still know it's perfect for us at the time we do it. Even if
it
>wouldn't have been perfect for us a minute or a day or a lifetime
before
>we did it. Even if it's no longer perfect after we've moved away from
>wanting or needing to do it at some later date.
>
>I regret nothing about any moment I've spent involved with a "taken"
man.
>Even when I often think I'm gonna spend a little or a lot of time in
Hell
>for it one of these days. I figure I'll just meet up with him there
too
>and we'll finally be together for eternity. :) After all...I didn't do
>the "sin" all by myself, now did I?
Yipeee!!!! clap clap clap. Good point. Humans are humans and love is
love and sex is sex and people are together and they are not.
>
>I'm almost sort of kind of half-joking here. I think. The truth is, I
>figure I've done plenty of hell-time already from these sorts of
>things....like your four+ hours at NA that night, being involved with
>someone already otherwise involved can be its own special unique brand
of
>Hell....except I've often had trouble moving beyond the sheer heaven
>aspect of it to see that. Until it was over. (Am I rambling and
getting
>myself in a whole heavenly host of trouble with everyone here? Hope
not.
>These are just thoughts that roam in my mind sometimes...especially
late
>at night when I'm alone and lonely...see? Okay?) <still scared here>
:(
>
>(rescue me here, Crisis-----back to what you were saying......)
Ummm.... a lot of our hell is on earth and is self made? We are
responsible for our decisions and must take the good stuff with the
yucky stuff??
Points awarded to the sparkely one!!!
Hugs all around.
Crisis
silve...@valis.worldgate.com
not much energy my friend, but i wanted to comment...
Prism Collective <sava...@Primenet.com> wrote:
: Think what you will of me, it's ok. geode in an email
: just two weeks ago I told you I'm not like this. Maybe I just didn't
: know I really was. :(
kait, i think you are my dear friend. that whatever you are 'like' you are
someone i care about. and though i'm sure that there are people who will
disagree with me, i don't think having an affair proves a person is 'like'
anything, it just proves that a person has had an affair.
i'm polyamorous, and i currently have two sweethearts. to some people,
this is having an affair. i ask not to be judged, and in return i try not
to judge.
you are obviously getting some things out of this relationship that you
need and want, and just as obviously getting some confusion and pain, and
i am not going to stand on some moral high ground and look down at you.
you are my *friend*. what you need to talk about, what you do in your
life, these are things that *you* decide. i'm just here for the fine
company.
silverleaf
--
--
Do not run. We are your friends. *bzort*
silve...@valis.worldgate.com
Pbanning
In article <Pine.BSI.3.96.970726...@usr07.primenet.com>,
Prism Collective <sava...@Primenet.com> writes:
>I'd also like to say this. A large part of me IS glad I did this.
>No not the "he's taken" part, but I faced a big fear. I've only
>been with my ex husband (not including the perps) and I've not
>been with anyone for 3 1/2 years now, so this was really scarry
>and a big risk, but I faced that fear, so for that I'm really glad,
>but now.........
>
>Sometimes life sucks and then just gets worse!
>
>Think what you will of me, it's ok. geode in an email
>just two weeks ago I told you I'm not like this. Maybe I just didn't
>know I really was. :(
>
>
Hi Kaitlyn,
I'm sorry you are in a situation which you wish in many ways was
different.
I'm not surprised because I've met many very nice and gentle people who
let their addiction drag them into situations that were not just
embarassing
and potentially painful to others but down right dangerous.
I hope you find the strength and ability to make the best - not the worst
of the
situation.
I'm glad you shared your predicament. Hopefully someone will say what
you need to hear...
take care ...
Peter B
Bermy
Prism Collective wrote:
>
[You're such a bad bad girl!] :^)
>
> Sometimes life sucks and then just gets worse!
Yes... but no matter what we do, that Sun will still rise.
>
> Think what you will of me,
Okay! I think you're terrific and wonderful and human. Is that okay?
> it's ok. geode in an email
> just two weeks ago I told you I'm not like this. Maybe I just didn't
> know I really was. :(
>
> Kaitlyn
None of us are perfect... well, excepting that alan fellow.
Smile Kaitlyn, you deserve it.
--
To respond to this post, simply
replace NO_SPAM with nortel.
Dennis (Bermy)
http://www.why.net/ftp/users/dberman/