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Love and friendship and how to handle both

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Liz

unread,
Jan 26, 2001, 10:11:29 PM1/26/01
to
This for all of you whom just need to show someone just how you really
feel
about them. Don't forget, it takes less muscle, so do it 2 or 3 times.
Myfriend.jpg

Liz

unread,
Jan 26, 2001, 10:23:43 PM1/26/01
to
Hey!!! I did it! It showed up for me...does anyone else see the image?

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Image]

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 12:54:51 AM1/27/01
to
This is all we get
> [Image]
The image is on your hard drive which is why you can see it

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3A723F3F...@bigfoot.com...

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 12:08:47 AM1/27/01
to
Joey, grow up. How can you expect to parent a child when you can't stop
acting like a spoiled one yourself?

I don't know why your cheap equipment can't see it, but Saabirah's image
wasn't on my hard drive and I saw it just fine. So did several other
people.

Now get someone to change your diaper and be gone with you. You look
like an idiot behaving the way you have been.

toto

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 12:46:56 AM1/27/01
to

hmmm.. I can see both Saab's and Liz's images

can you see this one?

Dorothy

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There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
source unknown

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 1:11:45 AM1/27/01
to
Thank you, Dorothy! I'm glad you saw it. Yours just showed up on my
machine as code....

toto wrote:
>
> On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:54:51 -0700, "Skitch"
> <tech...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >This is all we get
> >> [Image]
> >The image is on your hard drive which is why you can see it
> >
> >"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> >news:3A723F3F...@bigfoot.com...
> >> Hey!!! I did it! It showed up for me...does anyone else see the image?
> >>
> >> Liz wrote:
> >> >
> >> > This for all of you whom just need to show someone just how you really
> >> > feel
> >> > about them. Don't forget, it takes less muscle, so do it 2 or 3 times.
> >> >
> >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > [Image]
> >
>
> hmmm.. I can see both Saab's and Liz's images
>
> can you see this one?
>
> Dorothy
>

> ÿØÿà
>
>
>

Polly Goins

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 1:24:06 AM1/27/01
to
all there is is computer language


"toto" <nob...@xxozxx.com> wrote in message
news:a0o47tkhq33mb1k0u...@4ax.com...


> On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:54:51 -0700, "Skitch"
> <tech...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >This is all we get
> >> [Image]
> >The image is on your hard drive which is why you can see it
> >
> >>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > [Image]
> >
>
> hmmm.. I can see bothand images


>
> can you see this one?
>
> Dorothy
>

> ĸØĸā
>
>
>
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>
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N. Katherine Wolfe

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 1:21:18 AM1/27/01
to

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3A7257DF...@bigfoot.com...

[superfluous bitch-slapping snipped]

FWIW, I saw it just fine.....

Nancy


TideRider

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 9:50:50 AM1/27/01
to
Actually, Joey is right - for some newsservers. Some of them reject posts
containing binaries on groups not designated for them, others don't. The
ones that reject binaries will give the kind of message Joey described if a
news client tries to post such an article while connected to the server.
For articles transferred between servers, either the article will be dropped
entirely or the binary attachment will be stripped.

As for who looks like an idiot, or for that matter desperately shrill. I'll
leave
that to each reader to decide on their own.

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A7257DF...@bigfoot.com...

jeeco

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 10:52:39 AM1/27/01
to
Liz, grow up! Did you ever think that you might be wrong?

Joey is correct. [image] is all that shows at the bottom of your post.


"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A7257DF...@bigfoot.com...

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 1:18:47 PM1/27/01
to
Liz I am more mature than you will be any day in your life. And I KNOW that
no matter what kind of parent I am, I will be 1000 times better parent than
you can ever dream of being. My child will not have strange illnesses and
stuff that appear and disappear mysterously. They will not have a parent who
is an abuser. They will not have a parent who hits them especially with
paperweights. They will not have a parent who abuses them. Oh and they wont
have a parent who lies for the sake of lying and nothing else.
As for my cheap equipment, it is far better that the computer you run which
last I heard you ran irc off a zip dive of all things.
You are the last one who should talk about the way other people behave...you
lie, you slander, you manipulate, your see threw, transparent, your a pure
psycho

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A7257DF...@bigfoot.com...

Don W Gregory

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 12:06:32 PM1/27/01
to
Hey, Joey,

liz is not a good person for you to compare yourself to.

Look to Jeeco or Ruth or somebody like them.

Greg

--
Don Gregory gre...@chebucto.ns.ca

Not even a prophet, not even a warrior, can survive
rules and words that keep human life at a distance.
after Linda Hogan


kathryn

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 1:23:58 PM1/27/01
to
ROFLMAO!!! that's great!! I like that! =)

Liz wrote:

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Image]

kathryn

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 1:30:31 PM1/27/01
to
=) that's some pretty coding there. =)

toto wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:54:51 -0700, "Skitch"
> <tech...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >This is all we get
> >> [Image]
> >The image is on your hard drive which is why you can see it
> >
> >"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> >news:3A723F3F...@bigfoot.com...
> >> Hey!!! I did it! It showed up for me...does anyone else see the image?
> >>
> >> Liz wrote:
> >> >
> >> > This for all of you whom just need to show someone just how you really
> >> > feel
> >> > about them. Don't forget, it takes less muscle, so do it 2 or 3 times.
> >> >
> >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > [Image]
> >
>
> hmmm.. I can see both Saab's and Liz's images
>
> can you see this one?
>
> Dorothy
>

> ÿØÿà
>
>
>

kathryn

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 1:40:40 PM1/27/01
to
wow! that's really pretty!

toto wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:11:45 -0800, Liz <white...@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Thank you, Dorothy! I'm glad you saw it. Yours just showed up on my
> >machine as code....
> >

> yes, saw that. I think it is because I tried to put it inline in
> the text message.
>
> Try this one


>
> There is no sound, no cry in all the world
> that can be heard unless someone listens ..
> source unknown
>

> [Image]

kathryn

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 2:02:48 PM1/27/01
to
Geez.... You, sitting there saying just how great of a parent you'll be in
comparison to Liz is just not fair. You don't know what kind of a parent Liz is
because you're not living with her and all you have is hearsay and rumours. that
would be like saying that I'm a crappy parent because I allow my children to
scream when they play or I allow my kids to work through their problems and only
intervene when necessary. it would also be like saying that I was a bad parent
because I'm not married and so my son has no "father" in the picture but my bf
has become his "daddy" so does that make me a bad mother? I personally have
nothing against Liz and I think it's pretty crappy that you have to hit her
where it hurts..... it's a "sucker punch" that in my opinion you have no
business throwing. I also must say that you have a lot of nerve bashing someone
who's a parent when you're not even a parent yourself. in fact, you're still
just a child yourself. I know that I'm not as experienced as some of the other
parents on this NG and I will never try to be "more experienced" when I know I"m
not.... I will say that in my own experience, I have disciplined my children as
I saw fit and yet, so many people bitch and moan about how I'm "abusing" my
children.... ok so standing their hot tempered little asses in the corner is a
bad thing? all I have to say to the government is "get the fuck out of
parenting!" but then.... you're already the "perfect" little parent, aren't you?
remember, when you point the finger and say that the intended person you're
referring to is "a bad parent" or "immature" you just remember that you've got 3
fingers pointing right back at you..... you may also want to look in the mirror
before you decide to say anything derrogatory towards someone else because
unless your reflection is that of perfection, If I were you, I'd watch what I
say.

Polly Goins

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 2:28:35 PM1/27/01
to
tryin their best to find the spot that will hurt the most. sad. cruelty.
same ole, same ole. thanks for being bigger tide.


polly wog


"TideRider" <d...@NOSPAMkersur.net> wrote in message
news:efBc6.13285$k%3.54...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...


> Actually, Joey is right - for some newsservers. Some of them reject posts
> containing binaries on groups not designated for them, others don't. The
> ones that reject binaries will give the kind of message Joey described if
a
> news client tries to post such an article while connected to the server.
> For articles transferred between servers, either the article will be
dropped
> entirely or the binary attachment will be stripped.
>
> As for who looks like an idiot, or for that matter desperately shrill.
I'll
> leave
> that to each reader to decide on their own.
>
> >

> > Skitch wrote:
> > >
> > > This is all we get
> > > > [Image]
> > > The image is on your hard drive which is why you can see it
> > >
> > > >
> >

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >
>
>


Polly Goins

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 2:32:50 PM1/27/01
to
Love ya Joey. It is well known that you will be a wonderful & incredible
parent. Any child would be lucky to have someone such as you as their
parent.
The same tactic has been in use here for some time. Attempts to find the
thing that will hit the hardest & be the most painful. When it starts being
used against a person it is a sure sign that you are being able to take care
of yourself. It is so very obviously a sign of jealousy & desperation.

Love ya Joey.


polly wog

"Skitch" <tech...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:94us9b$1cc$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...


I am more mature than you will be any day in your life. And I KNOW that
> no matter what kind of parent I am, I will be 1000 times better parent
than
> you can ever dream of being. My child will not have strange illnesses and
> stuff that appear and disappear mysterously. They will not have a parent
who
> is an abuser. They will not have a parent who hits them especially with
> paperweights. They will not have a parent who abuses them. Oh and they
wont
> have a parent who lies for the sake of lying and nothing else.
> As for my cheap equipment, it is far better that the computer you run
which
> last I heard you ran irc off a zip dive of all things.
> You are the last one who should talk about the way other people
behave...you
> lie, you slander, you manipulate, your see threw, transparent, your a pure
> psycho
>
>
>
> >

> > Skitch wrote:
> > >
> > > This is all we get
> > > > [Image]
> > > The image is on your hard drive which is why you can see it
> > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > [Image]
>
>


Polly Goins

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 2:39:21 PM1/27/01
to
oh but it is fair for people to say you are terrible & immature or stupid or
etc etc etc.... I don't know how you Joey can say anything about someone
else's parenting skills even tho the continuously talk about them here. But
of course they can comment on yours even tho you aren't even a parent yet.
Joey, don't you understand how the world works. Come on bud...get it
together. Pfft.
oh & remember you are only a child. even tho you are as old or older than
many here who have had children. but remember, even if someone strikes at
you saying you are a terrible person & not capable of being a parent because
you show the [image] that shows up on most of our screens. how dare you
joey. how horrible of you to aim at the place that hurts the most.

as i said before pfft.


polly wog


"kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:3A731B58...@qwest.net...


> Geez.... You, sitting there saying just how great of a parent you'll be in

> comparison to is just not fair. You don't know what kind of a parent is


> because you're not living with her and all you have is hearsay and
rumours. that
> would be like saying that I'm a crappy parent because I allow my children
to
> scream when they play or I allow my kids to work through their problems
and only
> intervene when necessary. it would also be like saying that I was a bad
parent
> because I'm not married and so my son has no "father" in the picture but
my bf
> has become his "daddy" so does that make me a bad mother? I personally
have

> nothing against and I think it's pretty crappy that you have to hit her

> > > Skitch wrote:
> > > >
> > > > This is all we get
> > > > > [Image]
> > > > The image is on your hard drive which is why you can see it
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > >
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > [Image]
>


Polly Goins

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 2:48:24 PM1/27/01
to
how dare you want to defend yourself joey. you should just stand there &
let people say you are stupid & immature & won't be a good parent etc. etc.
don't you have any internal fortitude. my god

"kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:3A731B58...@qwest.net...

> Geez.... You, sitting there saying just how great of a parent you'll be in

> comparison to is just not fair. You don't know what kind of a parent is


> because you're not living with her and all you have is hearsay and
rumours. that
> would be like saying that I'm a crappy parent because I allow my children
to
> scream when they play or I allow my kids to work through their problems
and only
> intervene when necessary. it would also be like saying that I was a bad
parent
> because I'm not married and so my son has no "father" in the picture but
my bf
> has become his "daddy" so does that make me a bad mother? I personally
have

> nothing against and I think it's pretty crappy that you have to hit her

& you are gonna do what that anyone needs to be scared of. that any one
needs to watch themselves around you.

oh my bad she obviously wasn't talking toyou joey. she attributed wrong
since you were just repeating what was said about you. so we know it was
suppose to be aimed at the one who said it in the first place right? of
course. cause her friends don't take sides & only attack when it is at her,
right? even if it a repetition of what she has just said.


> Skitch wrote:
>
> I am more mature than you will be any day in your life. And I KNOW that
> > no matter what kind of parent I am, I will be 1000 times better parent
than
> > you can ever dream of being. My child will not have strange illnesses
and
> > stuff that appear and disappear mysterously. They will not have a parent
who
> > is an abuser. They will not have a parent who hits them especially with
> > paperweights. They will not have a parent who abuses them. Oh and they
wont
> > have a parent who lies for the sake of lying and nothing else.
> > As for my cheap equipment, it is far better that the computer you run
which
> > last I heard you ran irc off a zip dive of all things.
> > You are the last one who should talk about the way other people
behave...you
> > lie, you slander, you manipulate, your see threw, transparent, your a
pure
> > psycho
> >

> > > > Now get someone to change your diaper and be gone with you. You
look
> > > like an idiot behaving the way you have been.
> > >
> > > Skitch wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > [Image]
>


toto

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 3:01:55 PM1/27/01
to
On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:40:40 -0700, kathryn <purr...@qwest.net>
wrote:

>wow! that's really pretty!
>

Glad you liked it.

It's a fractal. It's mathematically generated by a feed back loop
and a program that is based on chaos theory.

You can make your own, though I am not that good. This was
uploaded from a binary group where some of my friends post them.

Dorothy

kathryn

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 4:14:52 PM1/27/01
to
That's neat.... I'll have to show my bf this....he knows all about this
kind of thing. =)
=)
Kathryn

N. Katherine Wolfe

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 4:34:54 PM1/27/01
to

"kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:3A731B58...@qwest.net...

[rant snipped]

When you point a finger at someone who's pointing a finger....

plonk

Nancy

kathryn

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 4:45:18 PM1/27/01
to
I never pointed any finger at him. personally, I think he'd make a fine
dad.... I was just pointing out that it's hurtful to degrade someone's
parenting skills unless the person knows what parenting is like.... I
personally have had many questions and doubts about my own parenting
abilities. being a mom scares the hell out of me. I'm always afraid that
someone will take my kids because my ex tries to take them.... I'm
always wondering if putting my kids into the corner is appropriate
because so many want to call out abuse.... I'm always afraid of hearing
the words, "you suck as a parent" or "you're a lousy mom" or whatever.
it's just so hard for me to see someone sit here and tell someone else
that they're a bad parent and he or she isn't one yet or even ever. it's
hard knowing that there's this innocent little life who depends on you
for everything from food to shelter to protection to teach and even to
discipline. it's kinda like being put on an island and told, "here, find
your own way off" and leaving you with nothing but the elements and your
own common sense. When I see someone "attack" or whatever to another
person's ability to parent, it raises questions in my mind as to what
kind of parent I am. regardless of who the comments are directed to.....
I believe that everyone deserves a fair shake.... I only stated an
opinion that I do know that many people will probably flame me on or not
agree with.... nonetheless, it's my opinion and it's just as entitled
here as anyone else's. so in answer to your post... I am not pointing
the finger at anyone.... I'm just bringing to light only the obvious
that people seem to overlook.... every tries to make Joey out to be a
little saint and with his comments to Liz, I think he's anything but a
saint.

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 4:44:46 PM1/27/01
to
Joey, you're a miserably messed up young man emotionally, barely out of
his own adolescence. You behave like a child more times than not and
don't think for yourself. Your opinions and feelings change with the
whims of the wind and you have no set thoughts or opinions of your own
on anything. You still react to things like a teenage boy in over his
head. You are nasty and bitter, you react to disapointments with violent
nastiness and you can't admit when you are wrong, none of which is good
when you have to be flexible, patient, understanding and a teacher to a
child. You're unstable, immature, and probably *not the best candidate
for a parent.

But I wasn't either when I had kids, and we're all doing fine. so who
knows? I do know you and your family have a long, difficult road ahead
of you, and it won't be made any easier till you grow a set of balls and
think for yourself. And what you think of me as a parent, or what you
need to make up about me to make yourself feel more secure, is nothing
to me, Joey. And if I were to ask for advice on how to parent or ask
for an opinion of my parenting styles, it would not be your opinion I
sought. A: you don't have kids and have no idea yet what you are
talking about and B: I would seek out someone I know already is a good
parent, someone whose opinion and behavior I admire and respect. You're
out of your league, firing blanks, and there has been nothing about you
I have seen in the last few months to admire or respect.

You're a sycophant, a terrier and a spoiled child, 'Joey'. Maybe when
you become a man, we'll talk parenting. Until then, you seem to be
still looking for your own mama, and i don't have the time to be her,
and unfortunately, you have chosen only people to surround yourself
with who want you to stay where you are to make *them feel less sick and
you're too damn dumb to see it.

It isn't even fair to *flame you, you're so out of your league and
misguided.

See you.

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 4:48:17 PM1/27/01
to
This is what happens when they fire indiscriminately. When you hope to
hit anything with your birdshot, that's what usually happens.

I have indeed spanked my kids, which tends to produce something of a
hysterical reaction in some people here, and no, I don't think that
makes me an abusive mom or you either.

Joey has no children and he doesn't know what he's talking about. You
can't really fault him for rabidly defending his friends, either. I'm
sorry you got hit by what was thrown at me, thank you for the remarks
you made and suggest it isn't really fair to talk to Joey about this
stuff because he can't get it yet.

Take care.

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 4:51:46 PM1/27/01
to
Yes, I see it!!! Neato!!

toto wrote:
>
> On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:11:45 -0800, Liz <white...@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>

> >Thank you, Dorothy! I'm glad you saw it. Yours just showed up on my
> >machine as code....
> >

> yes, saw that. I think it is because I tried to put it inline in
> the text message.
>
> Try this one
>

> There is no sound, no cry in all the world
> that can be heard unless someone listens ..
> source unknown
>

> [Image]

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 4:53:31 PM1/27/01
to
Whoa. What? Mathematically what? Fractal which?

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 4:54:08 PM1/27/01
to
Buff is the best. I really wish you had known her here.

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 5:01:17 PM1/27/01
to
This is going to sound bitchy, and I'm not sure it isn't, but isn't that
what you are doing, in this form, right now? Pointing out you find her
opinion dismissable and unworthy of even a common replay beyond the
universally recognized implied insult of the plonk?

And if she were talking about anyone other than me, would you still find
her opinion so easily dismissable, Nancy?

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 7:02:00 PM1/27/01
to

> I never pointed any finger at him. personally, I think he'd make a fine
> dad.... I was just pointing out that it's hurtful to degrade someone's
> parenting skills unless the person knows what parenting is like....


Do you find it hurtful when someone accuses others of terrible things that
arnt true? being a child molestor etc? a rapist? cause i dont recall you
mentioning it before.
Do you think its hurtful to hit your kids with a paperweight?
im not a saint and anyone who says i am is wrong. but what i am not is a
abuser, liar, manipulator, cold hearted hateful person who spends hours each
day making up lies and stuff about other people/
i know what i say to liz isnt saintly. but before you become critical of me
why dont you take a look at the things she says to people and add her to
your lecture.

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 7:05:23 PM1/27/01
to

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3A734221...@bigfoot.com...

> This is what happens when they fire indiscriminately. When you hope to
> hit anything with your birdshot, that's what usually happens.
>
> I have indeed spanked my kids, which tends to produce something of a
> hysterical reaction in some people here, and no, I don't think that
> makes me an abusive mom or you either

And what does hitting them with paperweights make it?
is that considered a spanking?

> Joey has no children and he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Yes I do know what im talking about. I know i will not abuse my children.
hit them with heavy objects. force them to be part of my own sickness.

You
> can't really fault him for rabidly defending his friends, either.

This isnt about defending anyone.

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 5:10:23 PM1/27/01
to

kathryn wrote:
>
> I never pointed any finger at him. personally, I think he'd make a fine
> dad....

I think the makings are there. He has a depth of loyalty which is
essential, and is doggedly determined to protect the people he loves.
That's a big plus.

>I was just pointing out that it's hurtful to degrade someone's
> parenting skills unless the person knows what parenting is like....

But of course, until you have kids, you really don't know what you're
talking about. I remember the line from Terms of Endearment where Debra
Winger says, as hard as you think it's going to be, you end up wishing
it were that easy. Having siblings or neices or nephews is not the same
thing, being a teacher with a billion students is not the same thing.
There is nothing like it and ultil you have been there and have been
faced with it all, you just don't know.

>I
> personally have had many questions and doubts about my own parenting
> abilities. being a mom scares the hell out of me.

God, me too. Constantly. I am so afraid I'll do something that will be
remembered for ever. I'm so hypervigilant about it.

> I'm always afraid that
> someone will take my kids because my ex tries to take them.... I'm
> always wondering if putting my kids into the corner is appropriate
> because so many want to call out abuse.... I'm always afraid of hearing
> the words, "you suck as a parent" or "you're a lousy mom" or whatever.

Oh fuck em. Kathryn, there is NOTHING wrong with putting your kids in a
corner or other 'time out' situation. Nothing.

> it's just so hard for me to see someone sit here and tell someone else
> that they're a bad parent and he or she isn't one yet or even ever. it's
> hard knowing that there's this innocent little life who depends on you
> for everything from food to shelter to protection to teach and even to
> discipline. it's kinda like being put on an island and told, "here, find
> your own way off" and leaving you with nothing but the elements and your
> own common sense.

It would be nice if women were born with all the answers to parenting we
are suspected to have been, wouldn't it? If, just by virtue of being a
woman and mother, we knew all the right things to do and didn't have to
feel around in the dark like everyone else?

> When I see someone "attack" or whatever to another
> person's ability to parent, it raises questions in my mind as to what
> kind of parent I am. regardless of who the comments are directed to.....

Try not to personalize it. What he thinks of me as a parent has nothing
to do with what kind of maother *you are, Kathryn. It doesn't even have
anything to do with what kind of mother *I* am. *g*

> I believe that everyone deserves a fair shake.... I only stated an
> opinion that I do know that many people will probably flame me on or not
> agree with.... nonetheless, it's my opinion and it's just as entitled
> here as anyone else's. so in answer to your post... I am not pointing
> the finger at anyone.... I'm just bringing to light only the obvious
> that people seem to overlook.... every tries to make Joey out to be a
> little saint and with his comments to Liz, I think he's anything but a
> saint.

Thank you for that. We're all anything but saints, though, right? If I
were a saint, I would never have made the mistakes I mad with my kids,
or taken as long as I did to know what was best, and would know right
now all the things I still don't know and grope around about. I went
into parenting believing I would be the perfect mother... it was a hell
of a shock to find out I wasn't a perfect mother. I believed it was
flaws in me alone in the world, that the abuse had taken it's toll or
maybe I was just a bad person because I didn't know everything and made
mistakes. I love them so much and I KNEW they deserved only the best.

It took me a long, long time to realize *no one* is a perfect mother,
and while I had made mistakes, I was a damn sight better than most. I
berated myself mercilessly for years over it. Joey can't hurt me with
his tiny comments. Nothing he could say begins to come close to the way
I have attacked myself as a parent. *g* I've been attacked by the
best.

I hope you get there soon. Look at your kids and how they relate to
you. Do you love them? Are you doing your best? Do you apologize when
you screw up and do you not repeat the same dumb mistakes? If so,
you're ok and they will be too.

Hang in there.

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 5:20:55 PM1/27/01
to
Is THAT what I'm supposed to have done with a paperweight? *g* No
WONDER you wouldn't tell me what 'the paperwieghts' were about before.

Well Joey, congratulations. Now you're a liar, too. That should make
you very popular with the people who are using you so effectively, eh?
Now you're just like the big dogs, but big dog or little dog, it's still
a pack of *dogs* Joey.

What a pathetic waste.

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 5:21:53 PM1/27/01
to

Skitch wrote:
>
> "Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:3A734221...@bigfoot.com...
> > This is what happens when they fire indiscriminately. When you hope to
> > hit anything with your birdshot, that's what usually happens.
> >
> > I have indeed spanked my kids, which tends to produce something of a
> > hysterical reaction in some people here, and no, I don't think that
> > makes me an abusive mom or you either
>
> And what does hitting them with paperweights make it?
> is that considered a spanking?

Oh Joey, shoo....

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 7:23:18 PM1/27/01
to

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3A73414E...@bigfoot.com...

> Joey, you're a miserably messed up young man emotionally, barely out of
> his own adolescence.

Actually Im not messed up at all. I have a very good control on my life and
responsabilitys

>You behave like a child more times than not and don't think for yourself.

Wrong again liz

>Your opinions and feelings change with the whims of the wind and you have
no >set thoughts or opinions of your own on anything.

I have a lot of my own opinions and thoughts. My feelings dont change as
often as you think. After all. I have thought you were a bitch for some time
now.

>You still react to things like a teenage boy in over his head.

Well you got the teenage part right. Have to give you that one you got my
age right at least.

You are nasty and bitter, you react to disapointments with violent
> nastiness and you can't admit when you are wrong,

Im the first to admit I was wrong and to apologize for it

none of which is good
> when you have to be flexible, patient, understanding and a teacher to a
> child. You're unstable, immature, and probably *not the best candidate
> for a parent.

Coming from you liz this is hard to believe that you could recognize good
parenting skills in anyone since you think your such a good mother. Like i
said the other day. the luckiest of your kids is your son. That is IF he is
autistic.

> But I wasn't either when I had kids, and we're all doing fine. so who
> knows? I do know you and your family have a long, difficult road ahead
> of you, and it won't be made any easier till you grow a set of balls and
> think for yourself.

Got them and doing it allready. Do you know what balls look like? I mean
spike did say that your husband slept with your kids didnt he? And as
truthful as you claim you are in all your posts here about people. Then he
must be telling the trutch also.

And what you think of me as a parent, or what you
> need to make up about me to make yourself feel more secure, is nothing
> to me, Joey.

I didnt make up anything about the paperwieght you know that. And i didnt
make up anything about your being a abusive and manipulating person. You
prove that here every day. And the whatever the name of it is that you do to
your kids that causes them to be ill. Well thats allready been covered here
several times.

And if I were to ask for advice on how to parent or ask
> for an opinion of my parenting styles, it would not be your opinion I
> sought. A: you don't have kids and have no idea yet what you are
> talking about and B: I would seek out someone I know already is a good
> parent, someone whose opinion and behavior I admire and respect.

I wish you would do that liz. for your kids sake. find someone to help you
with your parenting skills. before its to late for them to.

You're
> out of your league, firing blanks, and there has been nothing about you
> I have seen in the last few months to admire or respect.

Just following your example...

> You're a sycophant, a terrier and a spoiled child, 'Joey'. Maybe when
> you become a man, we'll talk parenting.

I am a man 'Liz' I am more mature then you, and far more responsable. I even
have enough brains to know that responsability means not blowing a irs check
on frivilous things. And to know that 2k would not buy the things your
thinking about. So when you want to talk about being spoiled, think about
your post about your tax refund. Did you mention any of it was going to your
kids? nope.


Until then, you seem to be
> still looking for your own mama,

Got one, no need to look

>and i don't have the time to be her,

Well this is a blessing, will keep me from getting hit with paperwieghts
wont it? By the way. you say this to so many people you should get a new
line

> and unfortunately, you have chosen only people to surround yourself
> with who want you to stay where you are to make *them feel less sick and
> you're too damn dumb to see it.

You use this one a lot to. Just thought Id let you know that you really do
need some new material

> It isn't even fair to *flame you, you're so out of your league and
> misguided.

awwwwwwww

> See you.

I hope not

N. Katherine Wolfe

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 5:28:44 PM1/27/01
to

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3A73414E...@bigfoot.com...

[wounding pseudo-psychological character analysis snipped]

And, and, your dog is UGLY!!!

Sheesh.

Nancy


Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 7:26:04 PM1/27/01
to

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3A7349C7...@bigfoot.com...

> Is THAT what I'm supposed to have done with a paperweight? *g* No
> WONDER you wouldn't tell me what 'the paperwieghts' were about before.
>
> Well Joey, congratulations. Now you're a liar, too.

Not a liar at all. This information came from someone you know. Or maybe
used to know. In fact the pictures of them went around for awhile also. The
ones you hit your daughter with.


That should make
> you very popular with the people who are using you so effectively, eh?
> Now you're just like the big dogs, but big dog or little dog, it's still
> a pack of *dogs* Joey.

You should know since your a bitch in heat.

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 5:35:54 PM1/27/01
to

Skitch wrote:
>
> "Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:3A7349C7...@bigfoot.com...
> > Is THAT what I'm supposed to have done with a paperweight? *g* No
> > WONDER you wouldn't tell me what 'the paperwieghts' were about before.
> >
> > Well Joey, congratulations. Now you're a liar, too.
>
> Not a liar at all. This information came from someone you know. Or maybe
> used to know. In fact the pictures of them went around for awhile also. The
> ones you hit your daughter with.

Yeah,yeah yeah...shoo!



> That should make
> > you very popular with the people who are using you so effectively, eh?
> > Now you're just like the big dogs, but big dog or little dog, it's still
> > a pack of *dogs* Joey.
>
> You should know since your a bitch in heat.

And you are the guy who billed himself as suicidal if he deliberately
hurt anyone. Guess there's NO truth is advertising, eh? And you say
'bitch' like it's *bad. *g*

Scat, Joey. Don't you have some Legos to play with or something? Shoo!

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 5:36:28 PM1/27/01
to
Nancy, did you actually have something to say?

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 5:39:27 PM1/27/01
to
I'm not even going to bother reading what is shaping up, in the first
few lines, to be nothing more than a blue faced denial. Like I sad, you
aren't ok enough for me to engage, not bright enough to engage *my
imagination and it isn't fair to flame you. All you'll do is say what
someone else said, with a lot of capital letters and exclamation points
and shrill counterpoints, etc.

Shoo.

MamaWolf

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 5:39:04 PM1/27/01
to
Ok, Joey's 19, which is reason enough for immaturity.
What's *your* excuse for all the behaviors you've listed?


Liz <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A73414E...@bigfoot.com...

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 7:45:05 PM1/27/01
to
All you'll do is say what
someone else said, with a lot of capital letters and exclamation points
and shrill counterpoints, etc.

Where have i done that?
omg you are such a liar


"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A734E1F...@bigfoot.com...

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 7:46:40 PM1/27/01
to

>
> And you are the guy who billed himself as suicidal if he deliberately
> hurt anyone. Guess there's NO truth is advertising, eh? And you say
> 'bitch' like it's *bad. *g*

Ive never once mentioned any suicidal intentions on this newsgroup....

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 6:12:27 PM1/27/01
to

Skitch wrote:
>
> All you'll do is say what
> someone else said, with a lot of capital letters and exclamation points
> and shrill counterpoints, etc.
>
> Where have i done that?

*Laughing...oh little one.

Joey, take the last word. I give it to you freely, ok? I've never been
one to stand outside the playground and yell insults at the kids on the
swings.

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 8:19:15 PM1/27/01
to
Ahhh well that makes since
I guess outlook doesnt let you do it or is it mindspring.
Thats why some can see it and some cant.
I was wrong and I apologize liz
I thought it was another of your lies and I was wrong.

"TideRider" <d...@NOSPAMkersur.net> wrote in message
news:efBc6.13285$k%3.54...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Actually, Joey is right - for some newsservers. Some of them reject posts
> containing binaries on groups not designated for them, others don't. The
> ones that reject binaries will give the kind of message Joey described if
a
> news client tries to post such an article while connected to the server.
> For articles transferred between servers, either the article will be
dropped
> entirely or the binary attachment will be stripped.
>
> As for who looks like an idiot, or for that matter desperately shrill.
I'll
> leave
> that to each reader to decide on their own.

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 6:25:39 PM1/27/01
to
Oh shove this pseudo silliness. Not only have I not lied, but
suggesting I did negates any supposed sincere intentions. I bet it
played well to the other dogs, though.

See you.

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 8:28:56 PM1/27/01
to
whatever
i said i was wrong for thinking it was one of your lies and i was
i couldnt give a fuck if anyone else saw it

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A7358F3...@bigfoot.com...

Liz

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 6:40:07 PM1/27/01
to
Yes, mm hm...ok...

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 8:43:01 PM1/27/01
to
yep

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A735C57...@bigfoot.com...

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 8:49:00 PM1/27/01
to
i guess that means you know you lied and cant find a way to manipulate it to
look like you didnt so your dropping it.
works for me

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A7355DB...@bigfoot.com...

Saabirah

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 7:26:11 PM1/27/01
to
I do!! ROTFLMAO!

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contemporary Muslim Calligraphy by Saabirah
http://users.sgi.net/~saabirah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TideRider

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 8:28:11 PM1/27/01
to
Of course you lied Liz - your lips were moving.

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A7358F3...@bigfoot.com...

TideRider

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 8:34:50 PM1/27/01
to
Yes, Mandlebrodt/Julia sets are a very popular art form. Generating an
image involves defining a slicing plane and performing a large number of
calculations for all the points within that plane that map to screen points
displayed. Each color represents a "stability range". The calculations
can put quite a processing load on a computer, but the results are
fascinating.

"toto" <nob...@xxozxx.com> wrote in message
news:gdp67to62t001a856...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:53:31 -0800, Liz <white...@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Whoa. What? Mathematically what? Fractal which?
> >
> Here is an FAQ about the science and math behind fractals
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/fractal-faq/
>
> :>Q2: What is a fractal? What are some examples of fractals?
> :>A2: A fractal is a rough or fragmented geometric shape that can be
> :>subdivided in parts, each of which is (at least approximately) a
> :>reduced-size copy of the whole. Fractals are generally self-similar
> :>and independent of scale.
> :>
> :>There are many mathematical structures that are fractals; e.g.
Sierpinski
> :>triangle, Koch snowflake, Peano curve, Mandelbrot set, and Lorenz
> :>attractor. Fractals also describe many real-world objects, such as
clouds,
> :>mountains, turbulence, and coastlines, that do not correspond to simple
> :>geometric shapes.
> :>
> :>Benoit Mandelbrot gives a mathematical definition of a fractal as a set
for
> :>which the Hausdorff Besicovich dimension strictly exceeds the
topological
> :>dimension. However, he is not satisfied with this definition as it
excludes
> :>sets one would consider fractals.
> :>
> :>According to Mandelbrot, who invented the word: "I coined _fractal_ from
> :>the Latin adjective _fractus_. The corresponding Latin verb _frangere_
> :>means "to break:" to create irregular fragents. It is therefore
sensible -
> :>and how appropriate for our needs! - that, in addition to "fragmented"
(as in
> :>_fraction_ or _refraction_), _fractus_ should also mean "irregular,"
both
> :>meanings being preserved in _fragment_." (_The Fractal Geometry of
> :>Nature_, page 4.)
> :>
>
> There are a lot of fractal generating programs out there.
> Here is one:
> http://www-hs.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr/ferguson/
>
> Attached is another fractal that I like
>
> Dorothy
>
> There is no sound, no cry in all the world
> that can be heard unless someone listens ..
> source unknown
>
>


Saabirah

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 8:44:53 PM1/27/01
to
For goodness sakes. Don't you think this is childish? Or do you think at
all?

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contemporary Muslim Calligraphy by Saabirah
http://users.sgi.net/~saabirah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Skitch" <tech...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:94vmaa$5fn$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...

Skitch

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 11:11:08 PM1/27/01
to
Do you think at all? Or do you wait for your leader to guide you?
Keep following her saab.
Your good at kissing her ass

"Saabirah" <Saab...@stargate.net> wrote in message
news:t76uccd...@corp.supernews.com...

Saabirah

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 9:37:48 PM1/27/01
to
Joey... considering that we do our best writing when writing something out
of experience then maybe I'll take your comments as coming from one with
quite a bit of very obvious experience in the "kissing" area whether it be
actual or figurative asses. Of course the "titillating" experience lies in
the visual stuff.

"Skitch" <tech...@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:94vuu3$uo3$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...


> Do you think at all? Or do you wait for your leader to guide you?
> Keep following her saab.
>

Skitch

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 12:11:27 AM1/28/01
to

"Saabirah" <Saab...@stargate.net> wrote in message
news:t771bij...@corp.supernews.com...

> Joey... considering that we do our best writing when writing something out
> of experience then maybe I'll take your comments as coming from one with
> quite a bit of very obvious experience in the "kissing" area whether it be
> actual or figurative asses. Of course the "titillating" experience lies
in
> the visual stuff.
>

woof

FUCK YOU BITCH FROM HELL! ;-)

Hold on just a minute. I wonder if I should have said that? I wonder what
people will think. Will they think that I'm really telling you to fuck off?
(I don't *think so....) Will they think that I'm saying what you "told me
to say"? (Gee, I really don't know....) Will they think that I said that
so you would like me and then you would 'help me" fight off the dogs? (Well
gee... maybe but I'm not sure....) Will they hop right on that and start a
new thread: "FUCKING BITCH FROM HELL? (Welllll.... maybe if they get that
brilliant thought... but, I'm not sure what they'll think of me.) Should I
write that and post it? (Gawd, I'm scared!) What will happen to me then?
(Gee, I'm terribly-scared.) Etcetera, etcetera ad infinitum.


Shelayla **

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 10:08:58 PM1/27/01
to
you'll be a good papa Joey :)

shelayla

Re: Love and friendship and how to handle both

Group: alt.abuse.recovery Date: Fri, Jan 26, 2001, 9:08pm (CST-2) From:
white...@bigfoot.com (Liz)

Joey, grow up. How can you expect to parent a child when you can't stop
acting like a spoiled one yourself?
I don't know why your cheap equipment can't see it, but Saabirah's image
wasn't on my hard drive and I saw it just fine. So did several other
people.
Now get someone to change your diaper and be gone with you. You look
like an idiot behaving the way you have been.
Skitch wrote:
This is all we get
    [Image]
The image is on your hard drive which is why you can see it
"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3A723F3F...@bigfoot.com...
Hey!!! I did it! It showed up for me...does anyone else see the image?
Liz wrote:
This for all of you whom just need to show someone just how you really
feel
about them. Don't forget, it takes less muscle, so do it 2 or 3 times.
      ----------------------------------------

    [Image]

Peace Light Hope Love
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

It's my time to Live.

(Revenge was just a hobby)

Polly Goins

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 10:46:29 PM1/27/01
to
well now she's after l....& herself

@stargate.net> wrote in message news:t76uccd...@corp.supernews.com...

> For goodness sakes. Don't you think this is childish? Or do you think at
> all?
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Contemporary Muslim Calligraphy

> http://users.sgi.net/~> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


> "Skitch" <tech...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:94vmaa$5fn$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> > yep
> >

> > > Skitch wrote:
> > > >
> > > > whatever
> > > > i said i was wrong for thinking it was one of your lies and i was
> > > > i couldnt give a fuck if anyone else saw it
> > > >

> > > > > > > > people.

Polly Goins

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 10:48:57 PM1/27/01
to
all he did was to repeat her words.


i have to whole heartedly agree w/ plonk


polly

"kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net> wrote in message

news:3A73416E...@qwest.net...


> I never pointed any finger at him. personally, I think he'd make a fine
> dad.... I was just pointing out that it's hurtful to degrade someone's

> parenting skills unless the person knows what parenting is like.... I
> personally have had many questions and doubts about my own parenting
> abilities. being a mom scares the hell out of me. I'm always afraid that
> someone will take my kids because my ex tries to take them.... I'm
> always wondering if putting my kids into the corner is appropriate
> because so many want to call out abuse.... I'm always afraid of hearing
> the words, "you suck as a parent" or "you're a lousy mom" or whatever.
> it's just so hard for me to see someone sit here and tell someone else
> that they're a bad parent and he or she isn't one yet or even ever. it's
> hard knowing that there's this innocent little life who depends on you
> for everything from food to shelter to protection to teach and even to
> discipline. it's kinda like being put on an island and told, "here, find
> your own way off" and leaving you with nothing but the elements and your
> own common sense. When I see someone "attack" or whatever to another
> person's ability to parent, it raises questions in my mind as to what


> kind of parent I am. regardless of who the comments are directed to.....
> I believe that everyone deserves a fair shake.... I only stated an
> opinion that I do know that many people will probably flame me on or not
> agree with.... nonetheless, it's my opinion and it's just as entitled
> here as anyone else's. so in answer to your post... I am not pointing
> the finger at anyone.... I'm just bringing to light only the obvious
> that people seem to overlook.... every tries to make Joey out to be a

> little saint and with his comments I think he's anything but a

Polly Goins

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 10:51:31 PM1/27/01
to
the only explanation i can see is that she could not have read the post you
were responding to. has to be dont cha think.
hey & i'm sorry i haven't called you a saint yet. didnt know you were.
thought you were a human being. but you know how blinded i can be.

"Skitch" <tech...@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:94vgb1$27e$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...


>
> > I never pointed any finger at him. personally, I think he'd make a fine
> > dad.... I was just pointing out that it's hurtful to degrade someone's
> > parenting skills unless the person knows what parenting is like....
>
>

> Do you find it hurtful when someone accuses others of terrible things that
> arnt true? being a child molestor etc? a rapist? cause i dont recall you
> mentioning it before.
> Do you think its hurtful to hit your kids with a paperweight?
> im not a saint and anyone who says i am is wrong. but what i am not is a
> abuser, liar, manipulator, cold hearted hateful person who spends hours
each
> day making up lies and stuff about other people/

> i know what i say to isnt saintly. but before you become critical of me

Skitch

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 12:45:37 AM1/28/01
to
thank you shel

"Shelayla **" <Shel...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1840-3A7...@storefull-613.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

Skitch

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 12:49:15 AM1/28/01
to
yes well. She has me filtered you know.
remember. Filters are our friends ************************** shove those in
there some where.
my siant hood is a private matter you know.
blinded? I didnt know that could happen to girls to!

Polly Goins

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 11:02:18 PM1/27/01
to
well it happened to me early on. :-)

"Skitch" <tech...@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:9504p5$str$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...

Polly Goins

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 10:55:42 PM1/27/01
to

"MamaWolf" <mama...@asarian-host.org> wrote in message
news:94vikj$r7v$2...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...

> Ok, Joey's 19, which is reason enough for immaturity.
> What's *your* excuse for all the behaviors you've listed?
>
>

same ole same ole. could be almost word for word w/ stuff that was here
when she first came in here. nothing changes.


N. Katherine Wolfe

unread,
Jan 27, 2001, 11:58:16 PM1/27/01
to
Yep, said it too. Thanks for listening.

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A734D6C...@bigfoot.com...
> Nancy, did you actually have something to say?


>
> "N. Katherine Wolfe" wrote:
> >
> > "Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

> > news:3A73414E...@bigfoot.com...
> >
> > [wounding pseudo-psychological character analysis snipped]
> >
> > And, and, your dog is UGLY!!!
> >
> > Sheesh.
> >
> > Nancy


Saabirah

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 12:07:12 AM1/28/01
to
Hey... you and the Wolf Mommy learned to cut and paste?

"Skitch" <tech...@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:9502h4$c4l$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...

Saabirah

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 12:07:56 AM1/28/01
to

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Contemporary Muslim Calligraphy by Saabirah
http://users.sgi.net/~saabirah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Polly Goins" <wo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:950408$r50$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...

Polly Goins

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 12:25:00 AM1/28/01
to
ah well said finally

"@stargate.net> wrote in message news:t77a69a...@corp.supernews.com...

MamaWolf

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 1:05:56 AM1/28/01
to
Yeah, I also learned how to go to that pitiful thing you call a website...
My GAWD.. *that* is what you've been whining about?

Yikes.


Saabirah <Saab...@stargate.net> wrote in message

news:t77a4fd...@corp.supernews.com...

Liz

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 2:09:27 AM1/28/01
to
You probably don't want to hear what I think about him, Saab.

Liz

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 2:15:19 AM1/28/01
to
Probably they'll think they programmed you really well. Some of them
will shake their heads and wonder how you could possibly believe this
juvenile silliness is mature or or anything but juvenile silliness.
Some of them won't think anything about it at all, if you can wrap your
head around that one.

You really don't get how you have been programmed to fire their shots
for them, do you? And I bet that teenaged little mind of yours really
believes he is being a big macho man here.

Lord....

Liz

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 2:18:31 AM1/28/01
to
Well, there isn't any point responding to this at all. I had thought
you much brighter than this, Nancy. All you have managed is one liner
pot shots doing exactly what you are attacking, which makes you a full
fledged member of the denial brigade. Congrats.

Liz

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 2:20:33 AM1/28/01
to
Ah. Funny how many people 'lied' about seeing it, eh?

N. Katherine Wolfe

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 3:50:41 AM1/28/01
to

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3A73C7C7...@bigfoot.com...

[irrelevant search for tender spots snipped]

>Congrats.

Why thank you :-)

Nancy


TideRider

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 10:16:18 AM1/28/01
to
Translation: "Sputter, spit splutter, well SO'S YER MAMA!"
Do you have a life, Liz? ;-)

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A73C7C7...@bigfoot.com...

Skitch

unread,
Jan 28, 2001, 2:11:22 PM1/28/01
to
Only thing I believe is what i know. And that is how much of a better person
I am than you.
You are the queen at immature silliness in posts Liz. No one can even come
close to your actions here

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A73C707...@bigfoot.com...

kathryn

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 12:43:03 PM1/29/01
to
Just know that I never outright said anything about his potential to be a
parent. I just said that since he's not a parent *yet* perhaps he shouldn't sit
there bashing someone else's ability to parent. he just doesn't know what
parenting is all about just *yet* and thus makes him somewhat inexperienced....
just as my kids are only in their toddler years and that makes me very
inexperienced in the ways of raising a child who's maybe 10 or even a teenager
and so I try not to make too many comments on such a situation unless I refer to
myself and how I probably handled a similar situation when *I* was that age.

windswept wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes
>
> I would feel a whole lot better about this post if you had mentioned or
> acknowledged liz's post that came before it and prompted it. It is this
> kind of posting that so dreadfully hurts feelings.
>
> I might return your words to you - you do not know joey or what kind of
> parent he will be. I have seen him struggle with the issues of potential
> parenting and a lot of us have worked with him regarding what he will need.
> For you to assume he is immature and to support a potentially negative
> scenario regarding his parenting is for you to accept without question what
> liz posted and to slap him for being upset upon reading it.
>
> That sucks.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net>
> Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery
> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 1:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Love and friendship and how to handle both
>
> > Geez.... You, sitting there saying just how great of a parent you'll be in
> > comparison to Liz is just not fair. You don't know what kind of a parent
> Liz is
> > because you're not living with her and all you have is hearsay and
> rumours. that
> > would be like saying that I'm a crappy parent because I allow my children
> to
> > scream when they play or I allow my kids to work through their problems
> and only
> > intervene when necessary. it would also be like saying that I was a bad
> parent
> > because I'm not married and so my son has no "father" in the picture but
> my bf
> > has become his "daddy" so does that make me a bad mother? I personally
> have
> > nothing against Liz and I think it's pretty crappy that you have to hit
> her
> > where it hurts..... it's a "sucker punch" that in my opinion you have no
> > business throwing. I also must say that you have a lot of nerve bashing
> someone
> > who's a parent when you're not even a parent yourself. in fact, you're
> still
> > just a child yourself. I know that I'm not as experienced as some of the
> other
> > parents on this NG and I will never try to be "more experienced" when I
> know I"m
> > not.... I will say that in my own experience, I have disciplined my
> children as
> > I saw fit and yet, so many people bitch and moan about how I'm "abusing"
> my
> > children.... ok so standing their hot tempered little asses in the corner
> is a
> > bad thing? all I have to say to the government is "get the fuck out of
> > parenting!" but then.... you're already the "perfect" little parent,
> aren't you?
> > remember, when you point the finger and say that the intended person
> you're
> > referring to is "a bad parent" or "immature" you just remember that you've
> got 3
> > fingers pointing right back at you..... you may also want to look in the
> mirror
> > before you decide to say anything derrogatory towards someone else because
> > unless your reflection is that of perfection, If I were you, I'd watch
> what I
> > say.
> >
> > Skitch wrote:
> >
> > > Liz I am more mature than you will be any day in your life. And I KNOW
> that
> > > no matter what kind of parent I am, I will be 1000 times better parent
> than
> > > you can ever dream of being. My child will not have strange illnesses
> and
> > > stuff that appear and disappear mysterously. They will not have a parent
> who
> > > is an abuser. They will not have a parent who hits them especially with
> > > paperweights. They will not have a parent who abuses them. Oh and they
> wont
> > > have a parent who lies for the sake of lying and nothing else.
> > > As for my cheap equipment, it is far better that the computer you run
> which
> > > last I heard you ran irc off a zip dive of all things.
> > > You are the last one who should talk about the way other people
> behave...you
> > > lie, you slander, you manipulate, your see threw, transparent, your a
> pure
> > > psycho


> > >
> > > "Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

> > > news:3A7257DF...@bigfoot.com...
> > > > Joey, grow up. How can you expect to parent a child when you can't
> stop
> > > > acting like a spoiled one yourself?
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why your cheap equipment can't see it, but Saabirah's
> image
> > > > wasn't on my hard drive and I saw it just fine. So did several other
> > > > people.
> > > >
> > > > Now get someone to change your diaper and be gone with you. You look
> > > > like an idiot behaving the way you have been.
> > > >
> > > > Skitch wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > This is all we get
> > > > > > [Image]
> > > > > The image is on your hard drive which is why you can see it
> > > > >

> > > > > "Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

> > > > > news:3A723F3F...@bigfoot.com...
> > > > > > Hey!!! I did it! It showed up for me...does anyone else see the
> > > image?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Liz wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This for all of you whom just need to show someone just how you
> > > really
> > > > > > > feel
> > > > > > > about them. Don't forget, it takes less muscle, so do it 2 or 3
> > > times.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > [Image]
>

> --
> For more information about this posting service, contact:
> he...@asarian-host.org -- for all info about our server.
> If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page:
>
> http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html

kathryn

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 12:47:38 PM1/29/01
to
Whatever

windswept wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes
>
> And you are still not addressing at all the post by Liz talking about his
> lack of parenting skills that prompted his post. It was ugly and degrading
> to joey and meant to get the response it did. And I repeat - doing the kind
> of post you did is supporting abuse here.
>
> It sucks.


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net>
> Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery
> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 3:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Love and friendship and how to handle both
>

> > I never pointed any finger at him. personally, I think he'd make a fine
> > dad.... I was just pointing out that it's hurtful to degrade someone's

> > parenting skills unless the person knows what parenting is like.... I
> > personally have had many questions and doubts about my own parenting
> > abilities. being a mom scares the hell out of me. I'm always afraid that
> > someone will take my kids because my ex tries to take them.... I'm
> > always wondering if putting my kids into the corner is appropriate
> > because so many want to call out abuse.... I'm always afraid of hearing
> > the words, "you suck as a parent" or "you're a lousy mom" or whatever.
> > it's just so hard for me to see someone sit here and tell someone else
> > that they're a bad parent and he or she isn't one yet or even ever. it's
> > hard knowing that there's this innocent little life who depends on you
> > for everything from food to shelter to protection to teach and even to
> > discipline. it's kinda like being put on an island and told, "here, find
> > your own way off" and leaving you with nothing but the elements and your
> > own common sense. When I see someone "attack" or whatever to another
> > person's ability to parent, it raises questions in my mind as to what
> > kind of parent I am. regardless of who the comments are directed to.....
> > I believe that everyone deserves a fair shake.... I only stated an
> > opinion that I do know that many people will probably flame me on or not
> > agree with.... nonetheless, it's my opinion and it's just as entitled
> > here as anyone else's. so in answer to your post... I am not pointing
> > the finger at anyone.... I'm just bringing to light only the obvious
> > that people seem to overlook.... every tries to make Joey out to be a

> > little saint and with his comments to Liz, I think he's anything but a


> > saint.
> >
> >
> > "N. Katherine Wolfe" wrote:
> >
> > > "kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net> wrote in message
> > > news:3A731B58...@qwest.net...
> > >
> > > [rant snipped]
> > >
> > > When you point a finger at someone who's pointing a finger....
> > >
> > > plonk
> > >
> > > Nancy
>

kathryn

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 12:57:09 PM1/29/01
to
I think, Joey that you're not worth it. so go crawl off somewhere else and whine
where others care cuz I don't. I don't know that Liz hit her kids with a
paperweight nor do I care cuz if she did then she has to live with it but if
she's being wrongly accused then she has every right to be pissed. I, on the
otherhand, don 't always read ALL of the messages because so many accumulate and
thus I only skim. If someone was accused of being a rapist on this NG then I'm
sorry BUT, the only reason these messages accumulate is because I"m off taking
care of myself and my family... perhaps you need to do the same?

Skitch wrote:

> > I never pointed any finger at him. personally, I think he'd make a fine
> > dad.... I was just pointing out that it's hurtful to degrade someone's
> > parenting skills unless the person knows what parenting is like....
>

> Do you find it hurtful when someone accuses others of terrible things that
> arnt true? being a child molestor etc? a rapist? cause i dont recall you
> mentioning it before.
> Do you think its hurtful to hit your kids with a paperweight?
> im not a saint and anyone who says i am is wrong. but what i am not is a
> abuser, liar, manipulator, cold hearted hateful person who spends hours each
> day making up lies and stuff about other people/

> i know what i say to liz isnt saintly. but before you become critical of me


> why dont you take a look at the things she says to people and add her to
> your lecture.
>

kathryn

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 1:01:18 PM1/29/01
to
again, that's an awesome pic! my bf thinks it's just way cool!

toto wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:53:31 -0800, Liz <white...@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Whoa. What? Mathematically what? Fractal which?
> >
> Here is an FAQ about the science and math behind fractals
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/fractal-faq/
>
> :>Q2: What is a fractal? What are some examples of fractals?
> :>A2: A fractal is a rough or fragmented geometric shape that can be
> :>subdivided in parts, each of which is (at least approximately) a
> :>reduced-size copy of the whole. Fractals are generally self-similar
> :>and independent of scale.
> :>
> :>There are many mathematical structures that are fractals; e.g. Sierpinski
> :>triangle, Koch snowflake, Peano curve, Mandelbrot set, and Lorenz
> :>attractor. Fractals also describe many real-world objects, such as clouds,
> :>mountains, turbulence, and coastlines, that do not correspond to simple
> :>geometric shapes.
> :>
> :>Benoit Mandelbrot gives a mathematical definition of a fractal as a set for
> :>which the Hausdorff Besicovich dimension strictly exceeds the topological
> :>dimension. However, he is not satisfied with this definition as it excludes
> :>sets one would consider fractals.
> :>
> :>According to Mandelbrot, who invented the word: "I coined _fractal_ from
> :>the Latin adjective _fractus_. The corresponding Latin verb _frangere_
> :>means "to break:" to create irregular fragents. It is therefore sensible -
> :>and how appropriate for our needs! - that, in addition to "fragmented" (as in
> :>_fraction_ or _refraction_), _fractus_ should also mean "irregular," both
> :>meanings being preserved in _fragment_." (_The Fractal Geometry of
> :>Nature_, page 4.)
> :>
>
> There are a lot of fractal generating programs out there.
> Here is one:
> http://www-hs.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr/ferguson/
>
> Attached is another fractal that I like
>
> Dorothy
>
> There is no sound, no cry in all the world
> that can be heard unless someone listens ..
> source unknown
>
> [Image]

kathryn

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 1:25:31 PM1/29/01
to
I'm always happy to clarify.... =)

windswept wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Thanks, I'm glad you explained this cause I totally got the wrong impression
> from what I read. Its good to know this.

Skitch

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 3:44:19 PM1/29/01
to
Yep
Another liz ass licker/kisser

"kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net> wrote in message

news:3A75ACBA...@qwest.net...

Skitch

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 3:48:39 PM1/29/01
to
Seems odd that you seem to miss the posts that liz writes accusing people of
being child molestors and rapists. Thats pretty convinent. You havent been
here long enough to have seen the other threads of lies she has made about
people. And as far as taking care of my family. Thats what Im doing thanks.
Been working since 5am. Will be working the rest of the day and then doing
work on my business this evening. In between I will help my girl get a
shower, get her some food. And if theres enough time Im going to start
painting the babys room.

"kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net> wrote in message

news:3A75AEF5...@qwest.net...

Liz

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 1:49:23 PM1/29/01
to

kathryn wrote:
>
> Just know that I never outright said anything about his potential to be a
> parent.

LOL..here we go again...katryn, haven't you learned to do the goosestep
yet? You also didn't say anything about his accusing my husband of
fucking my kids or me hitting my child with a paperweight, but I forgive
you, accept you have a mind of your own, and you can play with all my
dolls, too : )

> I just said that since he's not a parent *yet* perhaps he shouldn't sit
> there bashing someone else's ability to parent.

And you and I are parents, so we can bash? *g* Just kidding. But we
DO have some idea of how tough it is. he just doesn't know what he's
talking about yet, and it will be a while before he does. Babies are
easy. You play with them, you cuddle them, you feed them. It's when
they get old enough to develop their own personalities and talk and
disobey and start to feel for their limits that it gets tougher. He has
some time to learn. I hope he finds better teachers than women who have
had their children taken away from them or whose children are in drug
rehabs because of their parenting.

> parenting is all about just *yet* and thus makes him somewhat inexperienced....
> just as my kids are only in their toddler years and that makes me very
> inexperienced in the ways of raising a child who's maybe 10 or even a teenager

Oh man, teenagers are different beings altogether.

Liz

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 1:50:50 PM1/29/01
to
So, when Joey said my husband fucked my children and that he hoped my
son was autistic and he agreed with Sherrie when she hoped my daughter
would die so I would chill out and he said I hit my child with a
paperweight, and Suzanne said nothing, does that means she was
supporting abuse?

Liz

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 1:52:49 PM1/29/01
to
Of course I never hit my child with a paperwight. Joey claims he has
pictures of the paperweight. Surely he'll want to protect the group
from me if he can prove his allegations and he will share the pics.

Skitch

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 4:43:16 PM1/29/01
to
You forgot to say I was a child molestor, rapist, kiddie porn, and that I
have sent you emails saying all sorts of shit.
your loosing your touch liz.
I wont post again what I have said or didnt. Ive done that 2 times now.
Keep up the good work!


"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A75BB8A...@bigfoot.com...

kathryn

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 5:19:12 PM1/29/01
to
yes, I have had interaction with Joey without anyone else and to be honest he's
a spoiled little brat

windswept wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net>
> Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:57 AM
> Subject: Re: Love and friendship and how to handle both
>

> > I think, Joey that you're not worth it.
>

> Worth or not worth what?


>
> so go crawl off somewhere else and whine
> > where others care cuz I don't.
>

> Very warm and supportive here - have you had direct interaction with Joey
> other than his interaction with Liz here? Have you noticed him here or had
> input with him other than Liz's little tizzy with him?


>
> I don't know that Liz hit her kids with a
> > paperweight nor do I care cuz if she did then she has to live with it but
> if
> > she's being wrongly accused then she has every right to be pissed.
>

> Well it looks a lot like she doesn't need to be cause you are going to take
> over that job for her without knowing or confirming anything. Based on
> Liz's say so you've done a lot of joey bashing.


>
> I, on the
> > otherhand, don 't always read ALL of the messages because so many
> accumulate and
> > thus I only skim.
>

> Sigh... this again.


>
> If someone was accused of being a rapist on this NG then I'm
> > sorry BUT, the only reason these messages accumulate is because I"m off
> taking
> > care of myself and my family... perhaps you need to do the same?
>

> And when it arrives if God is will and she is able to survive - he will.
>
> But if you don't know what is going on, I'm confused about why you weighed
> in.

Skitch

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 7:28:20 PM1/29/01
to
We've interacted? Communcicated without anyone else?
Darn! Wish i could of been there.
Next time invite me will you?

"kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net> wrote in message

news:3A75EC60...@qwest.net...

kathryn

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 5:32:38 PM1/29/01
to
oh boo-hoo.... You know.... stop being such a whiny little shit! ok? so you've
been working since 5 am.... who cares? and what, just because I haven't been
here long enough means that I'm ignorant... you, pal, are an asshole. I don't
like you and I will never pretend that I do like you. I think you're a
vindictive little child and thus, I have no more to say to your whiny little ass

kathryn

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 5:36:58 PM1/29/01
to
you're a fuckin prick.

Skitch

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 7:45:21 PM1/29/01
to
well you said why dont i go take care of my family and I was only mentioning
what I had done to do that so far this day. wow im a asshole! when your done
licking liz's you can come lick mine if you want since you seem so fond of
them. your a good canidate for the liz club i see from your other post. you
like to lie. saying weve interacted. You did send me a email once which I
never answered, I deleted it. I guess thats interaction isnt it? since you
hace no more to say to me I wont be seeing anymore posts from you to me will
I
have fun

"kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:3A75EF86...@qwest.net...

Skitch

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 7:46:26 PM1/29/01
to
and your a bitch.
Im glad we settled that!

"kathryn" <purr...@qwest.net> wrote in message

news:3A75F089...@qwest.net...

Liz

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 6:43:06 PM1/29/01
to
You know, this is so funny. Mike 'weighs in' about an issue, taking
exception to *my behavior on very little knowledge of the whole story,
and she says nothing. YOU weigh in, taking exception to Joey based on
what you have seen of him and YOUR little knowledge, and she has a
tizzy.

Neither you nor Mike need to know everything about everyone here to
speak about what you see, and neither of you should let anyone browbeat
you into shutting up. You are both capable of forming opinions based on
what you have seen of the behavior since you have been here and that's
that. Anyone who demands you join a side, specifically *their side, can
stick a large wooden spindle in the middle of their sit, sit gingerly
and spin for about a week if they have a problem with that.

Of course, you and Mike have to like me best. ; )

Liz

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 6:47:39 PM1/29/01
to
I haven't accused Mark of molesting a child. Physically, he is unable
given he has no arms or hands or legs, or something. I *have accused
him of getting erections when he sees children, something he himself has
admitted so. Is Polly a rapist? I don't know. I say again, if she
were a man and had done what she tried to do to Jean, she would have
been up on attempted rape charges. But then, who really knows what
happened out there? All I know is what Jean told *me.

Joey is a vidictive kid, but he *is a kid. You probably aren't. You
have kids, you know how they like to provoke and you know that part of
being a good parent is not letting them provoke you. It's the hardest
part sometimes. He's no different. Don't let him provoke you into
calling a kid names, Kathryn. As a grown up, you're supposed to have
more control.

Really, ok? One day, hopefully he will look back on this and feel
silly, and if he's lucky, it will take him a lot less time than it took
me to feel silly about it. Tell me more about the fish.

toto

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 7:09:19 PM1/29/01
to
On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:01:18 -0700, kathryn <purr...@qwest.net>
wrote:

>again, that's an awesome pic! my bf thinks it's just way cool!
>
>toto wrote:
>

Glad you both enjoyed them. There are several books out on the
theory that have many pics. The math involves some calculus and
I haven't had time to go through much of it.

I did hear Hans Otto Pietkin who was one of Mandelbrot's proteges
speak about it at a high school math teachers convention once, but
his German accent made him hard for me to understand what he
was telling us.

At any rate, now you have some sources to check out about the idea
and making them. I think making them with canned programs is not
hard even if you don't understand the math behind them.

Liz

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 7:31:07 PM1/29/01
to
I don't understand the math behind cash registers, Dorothy *g* I am so
utterly intimidated by things like calculus and Mandelbrot sets I just
fold and bake cookies instead.

I'm so impressed you get it. Come tutor my kids, ok?

Skitch

unread,
Jan 29, 2001, 9:39:00 PM1/29/01
to
Okay, I worded it wrong. You called him a pedophile and I said child
molestor and someone just told me that they can be 2 different things which
I did not know.

> I'm not lying at all. Mark is a pedophile and he has admitted
> to downloading KP before. So has spike, under the guise of trying
> to erase it from the web. I'm speaking to what both men have told me
>personally. It isn't suspicions.

> Uh huh. I'm really not interested in yet another discussion of how
> Mark gets off, but he has admitted to sexual feelings and reactions
> (ie erections) when he is around or looks at kids. If it's a lie, it's
his lie.

"Liz" <white...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

news:3A76011B...@bigfoot.com...

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