What Have Atheists Ever Done For Humanity?
Sound of Trumpet
What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
December 24, 2009 – 10:51 am
One of the big interests on the part of socalled smart people is
Religion-not their admiration, but rather their disdain, contempt and
in some cases, hatred for it. In fact, it’s kinda seen as a badge of
honor, if you’re supposedly smart, to be a non-believer.
In recent years, thanks to the efforts of Christopher Hitchens,
Richard Dawkins and others, Atheism seems to have made something of a
comeback. Books, radio and tv interviews, and in some cases, even
publicly held debates against believers have been mounted by the
Unfaithful.
Much of these debates I find to be boring, but the one debate, which
is easily accessible on YouTube, made me take pause. It was held at
King’s College in NYC, and had on the pro-religion side Dinesh
D’Souza; and on the anti-religion side, Christopher Hitchens. Both had
put out books arguing for their side around that time.
I have to say, that while I enjoy much of what Hitchens has to say, he
got pawned by D’Souza in this debate. When D’Souza mentioned all the
atrocities done in the name of Atheism, Hitchens tried to backpeddle
from his strident advocacy of Atheism; when he tried to bully D’Souza
by hogging the mike, D’Souza rightly noted that the Atheist position
is to basically try to dominate the public square and the terms of
debate.
For me, it’s a no-brainer-anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who tries to make
he case that Religion is a net negative for Humanity and that Atheism
is a better choice, I have but one question:
What has Atheism EVER done for Humanity, in the positive?
I mean, here in the USA, it’s a documented fact that both Slavery and
the Civil Rights Movement was started and seen through to its end in
one case and success in the other, by the religious community, not the
atheist one.
Wilburforce, a devout Man, was the driving force in getting Slavery
abolished in the UK; where were the Atheists?
When Black folks were getting hosed, and dogs set on them, and being
blown up in churches, etc et al, where were Atheists? Where were they
on that Pettis Bridge on Bloody Sunday?
Was it Atheists who stood with the Solidarity Movement in Poland
against the Soviet Union? As I recall, it was a religious Man, Pope
John Paul the Great, who did that.
Hitchens likes to kick dirt on Mother Theresa, but I don’t recall him
pulling up stakes to help lepers in Calcutta. Or any other Atheist for
that matter.
Let me be frank. Atheists, taken as a group, have NEVER stood up to be
counted when it mattered the most. It’s easy to talk smack from the
comfort of your cushy jobs and comfy homes, but when it comes time to
the showdown, Atheists have a marked track record for not showing up.
So, on the Eve of Jesus Christ’s birth (PBUH), I call out the Atheists-
what has your kind ever done for Humanity? Seems to me all you’ve ever
done, aside from basically being freeloaders on the freedoms and
achievements of believing folk, is destroy lives. Atheism, in
aggregate, amounts to desolation, pain and death.
If you disagree, holla back.
Now adjourn your heretical asses…
The Obsidian
Don Martin
wrote:
> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
They have repeatedly demonstrated the bullshit spewed by religionists.
noRm d. plumBeR
They were probably involved with inventing the killfile.
--
ewe spik flensh?
Joe Bruno
wrote:
> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
>
What have atheists done for humanity?
Let me count:
The USSR:
1,KGB repression
2,gulags
3.Russian civil war(1917-22)Millions dead from wounds and starvation
4.Occupation of Eastern Europe and suppression of human rights
Poland
Romania
Hungary
Albania
Czecholovakia
Yugoslavia
East Germany
Paul Ciszek
In article <73110d4a-3132-4509...@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Created a really cool educational TV show that encourages people to
think critically and examine the world empirically, through the use
of high explosives.
--
Please reply to: | "The anti-regulation business ethos is based on
pciszek at panix dot com | the charmingly naive notion that people will not
Autoreply is disabled | do unspeakable things for money." -Dana Carpender
fasgnadh
Given the world an unmistakable lesson in what happens when atheism
takes power and spawns a handful of the most oppressive tyrannies the
world has ever seen, the atheist states;
the Union of Savage Slaughter and Repression (USSR), Mao's Great
Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution, Pol Pots Cambodian Genocide.
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia’s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot’s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
> I mean, here in the USA, it’s a documented fact that both Slavery and
> the Civil Rights Movement was started and seen through to its end in
> one case and success in the other, by the religious community, not the
> atheist one.
Martin Luther King played a central role and his prophetic vision
continues to unfold.
> Wilburforce, a devout Man, was the driving force in getting Slavery
> abolished in the UK; where were the Atheists?
History shows that religion has played the central role in inspiring,
creating and sustaining the great and enduring world civilisations.
But every atheist state has been a totalitarian tyranny! 8^o
The conclusion is obvious.
> When Black folks were getting hosed, and dogs set on them, and being
> blown up in churches, etc et al, where were Atheists? Where were they
> on that Pettis Bridge on Bloody Sunday?
>
> Was it Atheists who stood with the Solidarity Movement in Poland
> against the Soviet Union? As I recall, it was a religious Man, Pope
> John Paul the Great, who did that.
>
> Hitchens likes to kick dirt on Mother Theresa, but I don’t recall him
> pulling up stakes to help lepers in Calcutta. Or any other Atheist for
> that matter.
>
> Let me be frank. Atheists, taken as a group, have NEVER stood up to be
> counted when it mattered the most. It’s easy to talk smack from the
> comfort of your cushy jobs and comfy homes, but when it comes time to
> the showdown, Atheists have a marked track record for not showing up.
>
> So, on the Eve of Jesus Christ’s birth (PBUH), I call out the Atheists-
> what has your kind ever done for Humanity? Seems to me all you’ve ever
> done, aside from basically being freeloaders on the freedoms and
> achievements of believing folk, is destroy lives. Atheism, in
> aggregate, amounts to desolation, pain and death.
>
> If you disagree, holla back.
>
> Now adjourn your heretical asses…
>
> The Obsidian
An unanswerable challenge to atheists, based on the facts of history.
Well done.
You will be attacked and vilified, but not met in rational debate.
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
fasgnadh
fasgnadh wrote:
> Sound of Trumpet summarised the catastrophic history of atheist failure:
<unsnip all the facts the desperate atheists SNIP and run away from! B^>
Given the world an unmistakable lesson in what happens when atheism
>> I mean, here in the USA, it’s a documented fact that both Slavery and
>> the Civil Rights Movement was started and seen through to its end in
>> one case and success in the other, by the religious community, not the
>> atheist one.
Martin Luther King played a central role and his prophetic vision
continues to unfold.
>> Wilburforce, a devout Man, was the driving force in getting Slavery
>> abolished in the UK; where were the Atheists?
History shows that religion has played the central role in inspiring,
creating and sustaining the great and enduring world civilisations.
But every atheist state has been a totalitarian tyranny! 8^o
The conclusion is obvious.
>> When Black folks were getting hosed, and dogs set on them, and being
>> blown up in churches, etc et al, where were Atheists? Where were they
>> on that Pettis Bridge on Bloody Sunday?
>>
>> Was it Atheists who stood with the Solidarity Movement in Poland
>> against the Soviet Union? As I recall, it was a religious Man, Pope
>> John Paul the Great, who did that.
>>
>> Hitchens likes to kick dirt on Mother Theresa, but I don’t recall him
>> pulling up stakes to help lepers in Calcutta. Or any other Atheist for
>> that matter.
>>
>> Let me be frank. Atheists, taken as a group, have NEVER stood up to be
>> counted when it mattered the most. It’s easy to talk smack from the
>> comfort of your cushy jobs and comfy homes, but when it comes time to
>> the showdown, Atheists have a marked track record for not showing up.
>>
>> So, on the Eve of Jesus Christ’s birth (PBUH), I call out the Atheists-
>> what has your kind ever done for Humanity? Seems to me all you’ve ever
>> done, aside from basically being freeloaders on the freedoms and
>> achievements of believing folk, is destroy lives. Atheism, in
>> aggregate, amounts to desolation, pain and death.
>>
>> If you disagree, holla back.
>>
>> Now adjourn your heretical asses…
>>
>> The Obsidian
<End Unsnip - atheist avoidance of the facts is chronic and pathological)
An unanswerable challenge to atheists, based on the facts of history.
Well done.
You will be attacked and vilified, but not met in rational debate.
> They have repeatedly demonstrated the bullshit spewed by religionists.
That's it? You are legends in your own imagination?
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAAAAA
clouddreamer
> What have atheists done for humanity?
> Let me count:
> The USSR:
>
> 1,KGB repression
> 2,gulags
> 3.Russian civil war(1917-22)Millions dead from wounds and starvation
> 4.Occupation of Eastern Europe and suppression of human rights
>
> Poland
> Romania
> Hungary
> Albania
> Czecholovakia
> Yugoslavia
> East Germany
Another example of an uneducated hick spouting stuff about which he
knows nothing. Why don't you travel to those countries and learn how
religion was not crushed. In Poland, for example, the church continued
to exist as per normal - all the Communists did was not permit them to
build a church that looked like a typical church - which was a boom for
architects to design new churches. In Yugoslavia, Christianity and Islam
lived side-by-side in peace. No churches were burned. No Mosques blown
up. No one killed because of their religion - oh, until 1991...but the
Communists were gone by then. And the christian Serbs had no problem
murdering thousands of Muslims in a matter of days in 1995.
And the gulags etc were for enemies of the state - regardless of
religious convictions. They did not send ALL christians there or ALL
jews. The people sent were not sent because of their religion. They were
sent there because they opposes Communism and those people represented
ALL faiths.
Communism was a secular ideology, like many western nations are today.
It may surprise you, but a country can be secular without suppressing
people's religious freedom. Try not to confuse the difference.
I'd challenge you to show me an example where a group of "Atheists"
attacked a religious group and murdered them all FOR NO OTHER REASON
than the fact that they were religious.
You can't do it. All you can do is confuse secularism with Atheism.
But I can show you millions upon millions killed because they were a
different religion than the other group or disagreed with the religion
of that group.
Grow up and get an education.
<plonk>
..
--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us.
clouddreamer
He has merely cherry picked events and ignored the fact that Atheism is
an ideal, not an organization. We are defined merely by your existence,
nothing more. To complain that Atheists did nothing in Poland in the 80s
is to also say that those that don't believe in UFOs didn't do anything
either.
Duh.
Poor reasoning that isn't rational to start with.
>
> Well done.
>
> You will be attacked and vilified, but not met in rational debate.
>
Another uneducated hick who can't tell the difference between secularism
and Atheism.
Ubiquitous
>What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
And you posted this off-topic article here becvause?
fasgnadh
> Joe Bruno wrote:
>
>> What have atheists done for humanity?
>> Let me count:
>> The USSR:
>>
>> 1,KGB repression
>> 2,gulags
>> 3.Russian civil war(1917-22)Millions dead from wounds and starvation
>> 4.Occupation of Eastern Europe and suppression of human rights
>>
>> Poland
>> Romania
>> Hungary
>> Albania
>> Czecholovakia
>> Yugoslavia
>> East Germany
>
>
> Another example of an uneducated hick spouting stuff about which he
> knows nothing.
Thanks for warning us of the content and authorship of your post...
> Why don't you travel to those countries and learn how
> religion was not crushed.
Of course religion was not crushed by the atheist tyrannies, nor was the
dream of freedom from atheist oppression.. but that merely indicates the
indomitable nature of the human spirit, even in the face of atheist
terror, torture and mass murder;
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia�s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
Modern atheists still threaten the murder of theists,
but it is unlikely the world will ever permit another
atheist holocaust:
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats and
# not in a girly way.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
Not satisfied with murder, Steve favours GENOCIDE
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
# Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
# Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv...@4ax.com>
# Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
#
# On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
# <blondes_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
# >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
#
# It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
# The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
Not a single atheist in Usenet has repudiated this violent anti-theist
hatred spewed out by their sociopath leader! 8^o
They not only threaten to crucify theists...
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
...they actually carry it out:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
> In Poland, for example,
Poland?? B^D Poland was not one of the atheist states,
it was one of the VASSAL states UNDER the Soviet jackboot,
you ignorant moron!
The Evil Empire included all of Eastern Europe, nations like Hungary
and Czechoslovakia, which when they tried to re-establish religious
and political freedoms had SOVIET TANKS roll in and crush their
movements!!! Similarly, in the east, there were many Muslim nations
that the Soviets ruthlessly controlled, destroying temples, churches and
synagogues and oppressing believers.
The atheist regimes were the USSR, Maoist China and Pol Pot's Cambodian
genocide.. LED by atheists, with every member of their Central
committees an atheist, implementing atheist policies:
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire State apparatus;
The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
�We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.�
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
�Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!� (early Soviet slogan)
"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
- John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
(Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
> the church continued
> to exist as per normal -
Normal? you must be fucking joking!
Christians were CRUCIFIED, Priests turned into human ice blocks
Muslims forced to eat pork and shot with bullets dipped in pig fat...
Churches, Synagogues, Mosques and temples destroyed..
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
# People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
...
> all the Communists did
was torture, terrorise, plunder and murduer
over 70,000,000 people were kileld in just seven decades of atheist
tyranny!
> was not permit them to
> build a church that looked like a typical church - which was a boom for
> architects to design new churches. In Yugoslavia, Christianity and Islam
> lived side-by-side in peace. No churches were burned. No Mosques blown
> up. No one killed because of their religion - oh, until 1991...but the
> Communists were gone by then. And the christian Serbs had no problem
> murdering thousands of Muslims in a matter of days in 1995.
>
> And the gulags etc were for enemies of the state - regardless of
> religious convictions. They did not send ALL christians there or ALL
> jews.
Are you a complete moral MAGGOT? You try and make it a VIRTUE
of the atheist tyrannies that they didn't manage to kill ALL
the Christians and Jews??????
Fuck off, you filthy atheist apologist for crimes against humanity! B^p
> The people sent were not sent because of their religion.
BULLSHIT, Children were FORCIBLY indoctrinated with athesim in schools,
adult believers were sent to re-education camps.. or simply beaten, or
crucified, or killed.
> They were
> sent there because they opposes Communism and those people represented
> ALL faiths.
Of course ALL faiths despised and opposed the atheists, and they
survived the misery adn despair of life under atheism AND THEY
ULTIMATELY WON, the atheist regimes were MASSIVE CLUSTER FUCKS
and were DESTROYED! B^]
And now, hundreds of millions of New Believers are joining the theist
survivors of the atheist holocausts:
"With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
of religion."
http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html
"At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."
"For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime
to a large extent,"
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
"religion has been enjoying a resurgence in China over the
past 20 years, as Communist Party disapproval has eased"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6337627.stm
"Religious believers thrice the estimate
By Wu Jiao (China Daily)
"A survey has found that the number of religious believers
is three times bigger than the official estimate.
The poll of about 4,500 people, conducted by professors Tong
Shijun and Liu Zhongyu of Shanghai-based East China Normal
University from 2005 till recently, found that 31.4 percent
of Chinese aged 16 and above or about 300 million are religious."
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm
Incredible! in just a few short years the new converts from
atheism In JUST ONE COUNTRY, far outnumber the slow increase
in tiny atheist numbers in the rest of the WORLD! B^D
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAA
Atheistic
> Communism was a secular ideology,
rabid, extremist, violent, oppressive and tyrannical
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
Secular IS NOT atheist. They are not the same at all! B^]
Atheism has NEVER produced a single free, progressive, democratic
state.. just a series of totalitarian cesspits of misery, despair and death.
The modern progressive, free secular states, eg the USA,
are MAJORITY RELIGIOUS society.. they even print "In God We Trust"
on their money! Australia, Canada, All of Europe, India,
Indonesia.. are secular MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies.
> like many western nations are today.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHA!
The Free Open, democratic, progressive MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies
created secular states to PREVENT the domination by any single belief
system and thus avoid theocracies or the ideological tyrannies like
atheist communism had delivered!!!
In the USSR and Mao's Cultural devolution the freedom to believe,
speak or even think was oppressed.. in the modern majority Religious
nations, even atheists have rights and freedoms!
They are NOTHING alike!
> It may surprise you, but a country can be secular without suppressing
> people's religious freedom.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAA
What would THAT surprise anyone, you cretin.. the MAJORITY THEIST
POPULATIONS CREATED those secular states!!! Even today atheists
are an insignificant minority, a mere 0.7% of the USA! B^D
Atheism is NOT secularism..
So why don't you
> Try not to confuse the difference.
Secularism has been created by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies..
all atheism has EVER produced is totalitarian shitholes..
Even ATHEISTS prefer, and CHOOSE to live in, Majority
Religious societies, with freedoms and rights, than in the LAST
of the atheist states, North Korea, where such freedoms and rights Do
NOT EXIST! B^D
> I'd challenge you to show me an example where a group of "Atheists"
> attacked a religious group and murdered them all FOR NO OTHER REASON
> than the fact that they were religious.
And I challenge you to pull your head out of your arse and
GET A FUCKING CLUE:
I doubt if any facts we set before you will impact on your
blind ignorance
> You can't do it.
Never mind, atheists are a tiny irrelevant and ineffectual minority,0.7%
We will just do what everyone does, ignore you! B^D
> All you can do is confuse secularism with Atheism.
Hilarious.. you are the one who tried to say the atheist states were
'secular', when they all opressed ANY IDEOLOGY otehr than atheistic
communism... while the secular states created by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS
societies are designed to PREVENT any single ideology from DOMINATING
all other beliefs.. as happened in EVERY athesit regime! 8^o
> But I can show you millions upon millions killed
Here's the (conservative) 70,000,000 victims of atheist regimes,
documented by peer reviewed Historians, far more dead than any
religion has ever been responsible for, even without adjusting
figures to per million ruled per year. ( eg Christianity has
sustained a great and enduring civilisation for 2000 years,
the atheist catastrophes lasted less than 70! B^p ]
First, Lenin's Red Terror, Atheism in praxis;
# Russian Civil War (1917-22): 9 000 000
* Eckhardt: 500,000 civ. + 300,000 mil. = 800,000
* Readers Companion to Military History, Cowley and Parker, eds.
(1996)
[http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/mil/html/mh_045400_russiancivil.htm]:
o Combat deaths: 825,000
o Ancillary deaths: 2,000,000
o TOTAL: 2,825,000
* Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998)
o Civil War and Volga Famine (1918-22): 3,000,000 to 5,000,000
* Brzezinski, Z:
o 6 to 8 million people died under Lenin from war, famine etc.
* Mastering Twentieth Century Russian History by Norman Lowe (2002)
o TOTAL: 7,000,000 to 10,000,000
o Red Army
+ Battle: 632,000
+ Disease: 581,000
o Whites: 1,290,000 battle + disease
o White Terror: "tens of thousands"
o Red Terror
+ Executed: 50-200,000
+ Died in prison or killed in revolts: 400,000
o Typhoid + typhus
+ 1919: 890,000
+ 1920: >1M
* Urlanis:
o Military deaths: 800,000
+ Battle deaths, all sides: 300,000
+ Dead of wounds: 50,000
+ Disease: 450,000
o Civilians: 8,000,000
o TOTAL: 8,800,000
* Dyadkin, I.G. (cited in Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993)
o 9 million unnatural deaths from terror, famine and disease,
1918-23
* Richard Pipes, A concise history of the Russian Revolution
(1995): 9 million deaths, 1917-1922
o Famine: 5M
o Combat: 2M
+ Reds: 1M
+ Whites: 127,000
o Epidemics: 2M
o not incl.
+ Emigration: 2M
+ Birth deficit: 14M
* Rummel:
o Civil War (1917-22)
+ War: 1,410,000 (includes 500,000 civilian)
+ Famine: 5,000,000 (50% democidal)
+ Other democide: 784,000
+ Epidemics: 2,300,000
+ Total: 9,494,000
o Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
+ Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000
democides.
* Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997)
o 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and disease.
+ Including...
# Famine (1921-22): 5 million
# Killed in fighting, both military and civilian: 1M
# Jews killed in pogroms: 150,000
+ Not including...
# Demographic effects of a hugely reduced
birth-rate: 10M
# Emmigration: 2M
* McEvedy, Colin (Atlas of World Population History, 1978)
o War deaths: 2M
o Other excess deaths: 14M
o Reduced births: 10M
o Emmigration: 2M
* MEDIAN: Of these ten estimates that claim to be complete, the
median is 8.8M-9.0M.
* PARTIALS:
o Small & Singer (battle deaths, 1917-21)
+ Russian Civil War (Dec.1917-Oct.1920)
# Russians: 500,000
# Allied Intervention:
* Japan: 1,500
* UK: 350
* USA: 275
* France: 50
* Finland: 50
+ Russian Nationalities War (Dec.1917-Mar.1921)
# USSR: 50,000
o Bruce Lincoln, Red Victory: a History of the Russian Civil
War 1918-1921
+ Death sentences by the Cheka: ca. 100,000
+ Pogroms: as many as one in 13 Jews k. out of 1.5M in
Ukraine [i.e. ca. 115,000] (citing Heifetz)
o Nevins, citing Heifetz and the Red Cross: 120,000 Jews
killed in 1919 pogroms [http://www.west.net/~jazz/felshtin/redcross.html]
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): Cheka responsible for
maybe 250,000+ violent deaths.
o Paul Johnson
+ 50,000 death sentences imposed by the Cheka by 12/20
+ 100,000 Jews killed in 1919
o Green, Barbara (in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
+ 4 to 5 million deaths in the famine of 1921-23
o Max Boot, The Savage Wars of Peace
+ North Russia: 244 USAns d. incl. 144 k.battle
+ Siberia: 160 USAns KIA + 168 other d.
+ [US Total: 304 KIA + 268 other = 572 d.]
+ Czech Legion: 13,000 dead.
# Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20 000 000 [make link]
* There are basically two schools of thought when it comes to the
number who died at Stalin's hands. There's the "Why doesn't anyone
realize that communism is the absolutely worst thing ever to hit the
human race, without exception, even worse than both world wars, the
slave trade and bubonic plague all put together?" school, and there's
the "Come on, stop exaggerating. The truth is horrifying enough without
you pulling numbers out of thin air" school. The two schools are
generally associated with the right and left wings of the political
spectrum, and they often accuse each other of being blinded by
prejudice, stubbornly refusing to admit the truth, and maybe even having
a hidden agenda. Also, both sides claim that recent access to former
Soviet archives has proven that their side is right.
* Here are a few illustrative estimates from the Big Numbers school:
o Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993 cites these:
+ Chistyakovoy, V. (Neva, no.10): 20 million killed
during the 1930s.
+ Dyadkin, I.G. (Demograficheskaya statistika
neyestestvennoy smertnosti v SSSR 1918-1956 ): 56 to 62 million
"unnatural deaths" for the USSR overall, with 34 to 49 million under Stalin.
+ Gold, John.: 50-60 million.
o Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998): c. 50 million
killed 1924-53, excluding WW2 war losses. This would divide (more or
less) into 33M pre-war and 17M after 1939.
o Rummel, 1990: 61,911,000 democides in the USSR 1917-87, of
which 51,755,000 occurred during the Stalin years. This divides up into:
+ 1923-29: 2,200,000 (plus 1M non-democidal famine deaths)
+ 1929-39: 15,785,000 (plus 2M non-democidal famine)
+ 1939-45: 18,157,000
+ 1946-54: 15,613,000 (plus 333,000 non-democidal famine)
+ TOTAL: 51,755,000 democides and 3,333,000 non-demo.
famine
o William Cockerham, Health and Social Change in Russia and
Eastern Europe: 50M+
o Wallechinsky: 13M (1930-32) + 7M (1934-38)
+ Cited by Wallechinsky:
# Medvedev, Roy (Let History Judge): 40 million.
# Solzhenitsyn, Aleksandr: 60 million.
o MEDIAN: 51 million for the entire Stalin Era; 20M during
the 1930s.
* And from the Lower Numbers school:
o Nove, Alec ("Victims of Stalinism: How Many?" in J. Arch
Getty (ed.) Stalinist Terror: New Perspectives, 1993): 9,500,000
"surplus deaths" during the 1930s.
o Cited in Nove:
+ Maksudov, S. (Poteri naseleniya SSSR, 1989): 9.8
million abnormal deaths between 1926 and 1937.
+ Tsaplin, V.V. ("Statistika zherty naseleniya v 30e
gody" 1989): 6,600,000 deaths (hunger, camps and prisons) between the
1926 and 1937 censuses.
+ Dugin, A. ("Stalinizm: legendy i fakty" 1989):
642,980 counterrevolutionaries shot 1921-53.
+ Muskovsky Novosti (4 March 1990): 786,098 state
prisoners shot, 1931-53.
o Gordon, A. (What Happened in That Time?, 1989, cited in
Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993): 8-9 million during the 1930s.
o Ponton, G. (The Soviet Era, 1994): cites an 1990 article by
Milne, et al., that excess deaths 1926-39 were likely 3.5 million and at
most 8 million.
o MEDIAN: 8.5 Million during the 1930s.
* As you can see, there's no easy compromise between the two
schools. The Big Numbers are so high that picking the midpoint between
the two schools would still give us a Big Number. It may appear to be a
rather pointless argument -- whether it's fifteen or fifty million, it's
still a huge number of killings -- but keep in mind that the population
of the Soviet Union was 164 million in 1937, so the upper estimates
accuse Stalin of killing nearly 1 out of every 3 of his people, an
extremely Polpotian level of savagery. The lower numbers, on the other
hand, leave Stalin with plenty of people still alive to fight off the
German invasion.
* [Letter]
* Although it's too early to be taking sides with absolute
certainty, a consensus seems to be forming around a death toll of 20
million. This would adequately account for all documented nastiness
without straining credulity:
o In The Great Terror (1969), Robert Conquest suggested that
the overall death toll was 20 million at minimum -- and very likely 50%
higher, or 30 million. This would divide roughly as follows: 7M in
1930-36; 3M in 1937-38; 10M in 1939-53. By the time he wrote The Great
Terror: A Re-assessment (1992), Conquest was much more confident that 20
million was the likeliest death toll.
o Britannica, "Stalinism": 20M died in camps, of famine,
executions, etc., citing Medvedev
o Brzezinski: 20-25 million, dividing roughly as follows: 7M
destroying the peasantry; 12M in labor camps; 1M excuted during and
after WW2.
o Daniel Chirot:
+ "Lowest credible" estimate: 20M
+ "Highest": 40M
+ Citing:
# Conquest: 20M
# Antonov-Ovseyenko: 30M
# Medvedev: 40M
o Courtois, Stephane, Black Book of Communism (Le Livre Noir
du Communism): 20M for the whole history of Soviet Union, 1917-91.
+ Essay by Nicolas Werth: 15M
+ [Ironic observation: The Black Book of Communism
seems to vote for Hitler as the answer to the question of who's worse,
Hitler (25M) or Stalin (20M).]
o John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen (2001): 20M, incl.
+ Kulaks: 7M
+ Gulag: 12M
+ Purge: 1.2M (minus 50,000 survivors)
o Adam Hochschild, The Unquiet Ghost: Russians Remember
Stalin: directly responsible for 20 million deaths.
o Tina Rosenberg, The Haunted Land: Facing Europes Ghosts
After Communism (1995): upwards of 25M
o Time Magazine (13 April 1998): 15-20 million.
* AVERAGE: Of the 17 estimates of the total number of victims of
Stalin, the median is 30 million.
* Individual Gulags etc.
o Kolyma
o Kuropaty
o Vorkuta
o Bykivnia
* Famine, 1926-38
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): 4.2M in Ukraine + 1.7M
in Kazakhstan
o Green, Barbara ("Stalinist Terror and the Question of
Genocide: the Great Famine" in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
cites these sources for the number who died in the famine:
+ Nove: 3.1-3.2M in Ukraine, 1933
+ Maksudov: 4.4M in Ukraine, 1927-38
+ Mace: 5-7M in Ukraine
+ Osokin: 3.35M in USSR, 1933
+ Wheatcraft: 4-5M in USSR, 1932-33
+ Conquest:
# Total, USSR, 1926-37: 11M
# 1932-33: 7M
# Ukraine: 5M
######################################################################
# Next, just to show it's a CONSISTENT PATTERN in EVERY ATHEIST REGIME,
#
# Mao's Cultural Devolution and Great Leap Backward!
#
######################################################################
# People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975):
40 000 000
* Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from
Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:
o Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths
o Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-43M
o Cultural Revolution: 2-7M
o Labor Camps: 20M
o Tibet: 0.6-1.2M
o TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M
* Jasper Becker, Hungry Ghosts : Mao's Secret Famine (1996)
o Estimates of the death toll from the Great Leap Forward,
1959-61:
+ Judith Banister, China's Changing Population (1984):
30M excess deaths (acc2 Becker: "the most reliable estimate we have")
+ Wang Weizhi, Contemporary Chinese Population (1988):
19.5M deaths
+ Jin Hui (1993): 40M population loss due to "abnormal
deaths and reduced births"
+ Chen Yizi of the System Reform Inst.: 43-46M deaths
* Brzezinski:
o Forcible collectivization: 27 million peasants
o Cultural Revolution: 1-2 million
o TOTAL: 29 million deaths under Mao
* Daniel Chirot:
o Land reform, 1949-56
+ According to Zhou Enlai: 830,000
+ According to Mao Zedong: 2-3M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-40 million deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 1-20 million
* Jung Chang, Mao: the Unknown Story (2005)
o Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries, 1950-51:
3M by execution, mob or suicide
o Three-Anti Campaign, 1952-53: 200,000-300,000 suicides
o Great Leap Forward, 1958-61: 38M of starvation and overwork
o Cultural Revolution, 1966-76: > 3M died violent deaths
o Laogai camp deaths, 1949-76: 27M
o TOTAL under Mao: 70M
* Dictionary of 20C World History: around a half million
died in Cultural Rev.
* Eckhardt:
o Govt executes landlords (1950-51): 1,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1967-68): 50,000
* Gilbert:
o 1958-61 Famine: 30 million deaths.
* Kurt Glaser and Stephan Possony, Victims of Politics (1979):
o They estimate the body count under Mao to be 38,000,000
to 67,000,000.
o Cited by G & P:
+ Walker Report (see below): 44.3M to 63.8M deaths.
+ The Government Information Office of Taiwan (18 Sept.
1970): 37M deaths in the PRC.
+ A Radio Moscow report (7 Apr. 1969): 26.4M people had
been exterminated in China.
+ (NOTE: Obviously the Soviets and Taiwanese would, as
enemies, be strongly motivated to exaggerate.)
* Guinness Book of World Records:
o Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare Mao
to be the Top Dog in the Mass Killings category, earlier
editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which
are similar, but not identical, to the Glaser & Possony sources:
+ On 7 Apr. 1969 the Soviet government radio reported
that 26,300,000 people were killed in China, 1949-65.
+ In April 1971 the cabinet of the government of Taiwan
reported 39,940,000 deaths for the years 1949-69.
+ The Walker Report (see below): between 32,2500,000
and 61,700,000.
* Harff and Gurr:
o KMT cadre, rich peasants, landlords (1950-51):
800,000-3,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1966-75): 400,000-850,000
* John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen:
27M death toll, incl. 2M in Cultural Revolution
* Paul Johnson doesn't give an overall total, but he gives
estimates for the principle individual mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Land reform, first years of PRC: at least 2 million people
perished.
o Great Leap Forward: "how many millions died ...
is a matter of conjecture."
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, calling the 3 Feb. 1979
estimate by Agence France Presse, "The most widely respected figure".
* Meisner, Maurice, Mao's China and After (1977, 1999), doesn't
give an overall total either, but he does give estimates for the three
principle mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Terror against the counterrevolutionaries: 2 million people
executed during the first three years of the PRC.
o Great Leap Forward: 15-30 million famine-related deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, citing a 1979 estimate by
Agence France Presse.
* R. J. Rummel:
o Estimate:
+ Democide: 34,361,000 (1949-75)
# The principle episodes being...
* All movements (1949-58): 11,813,000
o incl. Land Reform (1949-53): 4,500,000
* Cult. Rev. (1964-75): 1,613,000
* Forced Labor (1949-75): 15,000,000
* Great Leap Forward (1959-63): 5,680,000
democides
+ War: 3,399,000
+ Famine: 34,500,000
# Great Leap Forward: 27M famine deaths
+ TOTAL: 72,260,000
o Cited in Rummel:
+ Li, Cheng-Chung (Republic of China, 1979): 78.86M
direct/indirect deaths.
+ World Anti-Communist League, True Facts of Maoist
Tyranny (1971): 64.5M
+ Glaser & Possony: 38 to 67M (see above)
+ Walker Report, 1971 (see below): 31.75M to 58.5M
casualties of Communism (excluding Korean War).
+ Current Death Toll of International Communism (1979):
39.9M
+ Stephen R. Shalom (1984), Center for Asian Studies,
Deaths in China Due To Communism: 3M to 4M death toll,
excluding famine.
* Walker, Robert L., The Human Cost of Communism in China (1971,
report to the US Senate Committee of the Judiciary)
"Casualties to Communism" (deaths):
o 1st Civil War (1927-36): .25-.5M
o Fighting during Sino-Japanese War (1937-45): 50,000
o 2nd Civil War (1945-49): 1.25M
o Land Reform prior to Liberation: 0.5-1.0M
o Political liquidation campaigns: 15-30M
o Korean War: 0.5-1.234M
o Great Leap Forward: 1-2M
o Struggle with minorities: 0.5-1.0M
o Cultural Revolution: .25-.5M
o Deaths in labor camps: 15-25M
o TOTAL: 34.3M to 63.784M
o TOTAL FOR PRC: 32M to 59.5M
* July 17, 1994, Washington Post (Great Leap Forward 1959-61)
o Shanghai University journal, Society: > 40 million
o Cong Jin: 40 million
o Chen Yizi: 43 million in the famine. 80 million total as a
result of Mao's policies.
* Weekly Standard, 29 Sept. 1997, "The Laogai Archipelago" by D.
Aikman:
o Between 1949 and 1997, 50M prisoners passed through the
labor camps, and 15,000,000 died (citing Harry Wu)
* WHPSI: 1,633,319 political executions and 25,961 deaths from
political violence, 1948-77. TOTAL: 1,659,280
* Analysis: If we line up the 14 sources which claim to be
complete, the median falls in the 45.75 to 52.5 million
range, so you probably can't go wrong picking a final
number from this neighborhood.
Depending on how you want to count some of the incomplete
estimates (such as Becker and Meisner) and whether to count a
source twice (or thrice, as with Walker) if it's referenced by
two different authorities, you can slide the median up and
down the scale by many millions. Keep in mind, however, that
official Chinese records are hidden from scrutiny,
so most of these numbers are pure guesses. It's pointless
to get attached to any one of them, because the real number
could easily be half or twice any number here.
* Perhaps a better way of estimating would be to add up the
individual components. The medians here are:
o Purges, etc. during the first few years: 2M (10 estimates)
o Great Leap Forward: 31-33M (14 estimates)
o Cultural Revolution: 1M (13 estimates)
o Ethnic Minorities, primarily Tibetans: 750-900T
(8 estimates, see below)
o Labor Camps: 20M (5 estimates)
o This produces a total of some 54,750,000 to 56,900,000
deaths. The weak link in this calculation is in the
Labor Camp numbers for which we only have 5 estimates.
* Notice that many early body counts (such as Walker) completely
miss the famine during the Great Leap Forward, which was
largely unknown in the west until around 1980. There are two
contradictory ways to assess those early estimates which
ignore the famine:
1. "If these are the numbers that they came up with without
the famine, imagine how high the true number will be
once you add the famine deaths."
2. "Can we trust any of these numbers? After all, if they
missed such a huge famine, they can't have known very much
about what was going on inside China."
* ... so this line of reasoning will get us nowhere. In fact, the
median of the 7 estimate that predate 1980 is 45.7M, which is
almost the same as the median of the 7 estimates that post-date
1980 -- 58M. (At this scale, a 12M difference counts as "almost
the same".)
Now, remember, these are the CITIZENS of those atheist shitholes being
killed by the Atheist regimes who made their lives such misery and
despair that when the atheist regimes crumbled from their own evil and
incompetence, the people could not wait to shuck off the filthy atheist
shitpigs and their nightmare.. and embrace a path more tolerant of
religion.. since then their nations have prospered.. still suffering
the deep scars of atheist abuse, but once more part of Civilisation and
making progress!!
Now, all you have to do is show similar EVIDENCE.. not your IDIOTIC
OPINIONS, or those of some other atheist cretin.. that countries like
the USA, which Prints "In God We Trust" on it's money, is in any way
such a murderous tyranny, torturing terrorising and murdering over
40,000,000 of it's citizens!
Off you go you snivelling atheist fraud!
> because they were a
> different religion than the other group or disagreed with the religion
> of that group.
No religion has ever produced such complete misery, despair and DEATH
as the atheist regimes.
What will you do now that your idiocy has been thoroughly exposed?
> Grow up and get an education.
Off you go then!
Next atheist apologist for the deaths of over 70,000,000 people, please!
> <plonk>
>
> ..
>
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
- Stalin
E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire State apparatus;
The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
�We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.�
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
�Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!� (early Soviet slogan)
"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
In 1922, the Solovki Camp of Special Purpose, the first Russian
concentration camp was established in the Solovki Islands in the White
Sea"
John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
(Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
fasgnadh
all proving the point that EVERY atheist STATE, led by atheists (Lenin,
Mao Pol Pot) implementing the forced atheist indoctrination of children
and a range of anti-theist policies.
Apart from the atheist regimes of the 20th century, atheism has produced
nothing of significance in ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY!
Religion, on the other hand, has inspired great and enduring
civilisations bringing untold benefits to mankind.
So we all take your point hat atheism, at worst gives birth to
totalitarian tyrannies.. but at best is insignificant, useless and
ineffectual, as you atheists constantly demonstrate.
As you now agree that atheism has declined from a huge, but depraved,
global influence in the 20th century.. to a single, vapid non belief
in something.. then it's days are over! B^]
> and ignored the fact that Atheism is an ideal,
Clearly one that NONE of the real atheists in history can reach..
and as they show, attempting to establish the Atheist Utopian
Fantasy, was a catastrophic failure, killing over 70,000,000
people... and must never be allowed to happen again.
Thus, Athesim is finished! If it is just one feeble non belief in
sumpthin or other.. then it is empty, and all the NGs websites and
books are a complete waste of time.
Critique of fundamentalism clearly does not require atheism..
it has NOTHING to do with science or evolution or improving the world.
It is completely DEFUNCT
> not an organization. We are defined merely by your existence,
> nothing more.
But that's a lie, you prosletyse your beliefs:
http://www.thearrogantatheist.com/mensnogod.html
You raise money, through your ORGANISTAIONS, and put your
UNPROVEN BELIEFS AND OPINIONS on buses!!! B^D
And then when you are asked for PROOF, you have none, and so
you automatically invoke your Protective Shield...
http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
# http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7842769.stm
#
# An atheist UK bus campaign which uses the slogan
# "There's probably no God, So Don't Worry, Be Happy"
# has been found by the Advertising Standards Authority
# to be OPINIONS which cannot be objectively substantiated!
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA
#
# "the ASA ruled the adverts were an expression of the advertiser's
# opinion and that the claims in it were not capable of objective
# substantiation."
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!
#
# It's just as I said.. Atheists have BELIEFS, they put
# them on bus signs!
#
# And they CAN'T PROVE THEM!
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!
#
# PRICELESS!
> To complain that Atheists did nothing in Poland in the 80s
> is to also say that those that don't believe in UFOs didn't do anything
> either.
Look, it's simple, atheists have never produced even a decent democracy,
let alone a great and enduring civilisation! B^D
EVERY atheist regime has been a totalitarian shithole and a catascrophic
failure, and they killed over 70,000,000 people in just 7 decades.
No wonder they try, when confronted with the HORRIFIC HISTORY of atheim
in the last century, to pretend that atheism is now just a useless
one idea ideology for people too supine, facile and stupid to find a
decent worldview and DO SOMETHING useful! B^D
> Duh.
How would you describe the historical reality of atheism,
in particular it's catastrophic collapse in influence since it's heyday,
under the most influential atheists in history, Lenin, Mao, Stalin and
Pol Pot?
> Poor reasoning that isn't rational to start with.
Perhaps you could take up something more productive and useful then..
Like crocheting doilies.. or herding cats...
>> Well done.
>>
>> You will be attacked and vilified, but not met in rational debate.
>>
Time for you to sign off, Bozo;
> Another uneducated hick who can't tell the difference between secularism
> and Atheism.
JayPee Vee
wrote:
> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
>
> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
When have you ever answered to what we answer to your pathetic rant ?
"Ho!" <whack>
JayPee Vee
>
> > What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
> > December 24, 2009 – 10:51 am
>
> > One of the big interests on the part of socalled smart people is
"HO!" <whack>
JayPee Vee
> Don Martin as is usuals for athesits, SNIPPED the facts and RAN: B^D
>
> fasgnadh wrote:
> > Sound of Trumpet summarised the catastrophic history of atheist failure:
>
> <unsnip all the facts the desperate atheists SNIP and run away from! B^>
"HO!" <whack>
BWWAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA
Fagsnag is a moron
BWWAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA
JayPee Vee
(garbage snipped to get to the point)
> all proving the point that EVERY atheist STATE, led by atheists (Lenin,
> Mao Pol Pot) implementing the forced atheist indoctrination of children
> and a range of anti-theist policies.
False.
Wanna talk about the religious indoctrination in the USA?
>
> Apart from the atheist regimes of the 20th century, atheism has produced
> nothing of significance in ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY!
Gee, men with mustache either: see Hitler and Stalin.
Now that I think of it, same with men in general: Pol Pot, Mao,
Hitler, Stalin, you...
BWWWWAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>
> Religion, on the other hand, has inspired great and enduring
> civilisations bringing untold benefits to mankind.
Go crash an airplane in a skycraper, moron.
BWWWWAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh provided evidence of teh historical failure of atheism:
>> Sound of Trumpet outlined Historical atheism :
>>> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-ever-done-for-anybody/
>>>
>>> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>>>
>>> December 24, 2009 – 10:51 am
>>>
>>>
>>> One of the big interests on the part of socalled smart people is
Apart from mindlessly snipping ideas that atheists can't deal with
(and that's ALL ideas B^) what's your role in alt.atheism, Jay Pee"
> "HO!"
Yup, you sure are fucked.. regularly .. by everyone! B^D
What do you do in your free time
> <whack>
When you have finished whacking off, why don't you fuck off,
you useless butt-fucked atheist Ho!
Mike Schilling
Joe Bruno
> Joe Bruno wrote:
> > What have atheists done for humanity?
> > Let me count:
> > The USSR:
>
> > 1,KGB repression
> > 2,gulags
> > 3.Russian civil war(1917-22)Millions dead from wounds and starvation
> > 4.Occupation of Eastern Europe and suppression of human rights
>
> > Poland
> > Romania
> > Hungary
> > Albania
> > Czecholovakia
> > Yugoslavia
> > East Germany
>
> Another example of an uneducated hick spouting stuff about which he
> knows nothing.
The Soviets were atheists, you fucking idiot.
W.T.S.
news:73110d4a-3132-4509...@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-ever-done-for-anybody/
>
> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
chance to survive. It has fought to free mankind in both body and mind.
Religion, on the other hand, has caused mankind to live in fear and terror.
Religion has caused each and every war in history, including the present
world war. Religion has brought sickness and death, Atheism has brought
healing and life.
Religion, bad. Atheism, good.
----------------------------------------
http://folding.stanford.edu
Save lives, visit today!
Uncle Vic
wrote:
> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
Think about the works of Giuseppi Verdi, Johannes Brahms, Marlon Brando,
Katherine Hepburn, Jody Foster, George Carlin, Kevin Bacon, Angelina Jolie,
Gene Wilder, Daniel Radcliffe, etc. before asking prejudicial questions and
making the assumption that doing good things for others requires a belief
in a supernatural being.
A friend of mine wrote me a sad E-mail a few months ago. He was out of
work, being sued by a credit card company, flat broke, and worst, the back
tire on his Harley was almost bald. A few days later, his son came into
his home studio and told him, "Dinner is ready. And there's a tire on the
porch." I was out of work at the time, too, but I still had credit so I
went online with BikeBandit.com and bought a rear tire, and had them
deliver it to his house.
If that doesn't fit your characature of an atheist, you have a lot of
bigoted feelings that you should probably see a doctor about.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
"The Bible talks about the first rainbow after the Great Flood, and we see
rainbows in the sky today. This is proof of the divinity of Jesus Christ
and the existence of God." - Zacharias Mulletstein
Uncle Vic
wrote:
<Golf clap...>
Reality bites, eh?
Uncle Vic
Some of the government types were, and the government saw no need for
religion. But the Soviet People were Orthodox Christian. You fucking
idiot.
Joe Bruno
> One fine day in alt.atheism, Joe Bruno <joebr...@usa.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 21, 6:49 am, clouddreamer <Reuse.Recy...@Reduce.now> wrote:
> >> Joe Bruno wrote:
> >> > What have atheists done for humanity?
> >> > Let me count:
> >> > The USSR:
>
> >> > 1,KGB repression
> >> > 2,gulags
> >> > 3.Russian civil war(1917-22)Millions dead from wounds and starvation
> >> > 4.Occupation of Eastern Europe and suppression of human rights
>
> >> > Poland
> >> > Romania
> >> > Hungary
> >> > Albania
> >> > Czecholovakia
> >> > Yugoslavia
> >> > East Germany
>
> >> Another example of an uneducated hick spouting stuff about which he
> >> knows nothing.
>
> > The Soviets were atheists, you fucking idiot.
>
> Some of the government types were, and the government saw no need for
> religion. But the Soviet People were Orthodox Christian. You fucking
> idiot.
>
> --
Uncle Vic
Because he's a rank and file troll who knows this kind of shite infuriates
atheists.
Uncle Vic
> Communists are atheists, you idiot.
>
>
You really should shave the hair around your asshole, I can't understand
you.
W.T.S.
news:%NEzn.20557$pv....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> cloud-reamer denies the HISTORICAL REALITY of 20th century atheism: B^D
>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>> Sound of Trumpet wrote:
>>>> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-ever-done-for-anybody/
> bringing untold benefits to mankind.
monarchy that had the people hauling around huge blocks of rock to build
monuments to itself, and to empower multiple temples for "Gods" that would
shock our churches today, and have them sending armies of missionaries to
convert the rock hauling heathens to the "one true" God. But, it did last
for about 5,000 years.
Skeptical inquiry, which atheism embraces and religion abhors, has resulted
in modern medicine and science. Try living without antibiotics. Islamic
nations are producing "great and enduring" civilizations, enabled by oil
wealth, and dedicated to imposing themselves on other nations through force,
terrorism, and war. The practice of gender slavery is a notable achievement
of the Islamic "flavor" of religion. Oddly, the invention of the PC and the
development of the internet, products of skeptical inquiry and science, may
bring this "great and enduring" civilization to an end. The United States
may have survived only due to its separation of church and state, a practice
religionists and conservatives want to end. The universe both can and will
challenge mankind's "right" to survival, sooner or later. Only the fruits
of atheism will decide the issue, not the poison religion has produced!
Church, bad. Atheism, good.
Uncle Vic
> Communists are atheists, you idiot.
Non-sequitur. Communism is a political stance, not a religious one. The
truth of the matter is that some communists are atheists, and some are not.
Why are you afraid of the truth, bigot? Because the truth doesn't support
your agenda? Man, you morons are transparent.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>One fine day in alt.atheism, Joe Bruno <joeb...@usa.com> wrote:
>
>> Communists are atheists, you idiot.
>
>You really should shave the hair around your asshole, I can't understand
>you.
Somebody remind the imbecile that SOME communists are atheist. In
Central America they tend to be Christian (Catholic).
And that atheism and communism are orthogonal. One has nothing to do
with the other.
Insisting that if some communists are atheist, that all atheists are
communist, is like saying that because dogs are quadrupeds, all
quadrupeds are dogs.
Because all atheism is, is the exact equivalent of not believing in
the fairies at the bottom of the garden.
slika
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundof...@dcemail.com> wrote in message
news:73110d4a-3132-4509...@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-ever-done-for-anybody/
What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
December 24, 2009 – 10:51 am
I mean, here in the USA, it’s a documented fact that both Slavery and
the Civil Rights Movement was started and seen through to its end in
one case and success in the other, by the religious community, not the
atheist one.
Wilburforce, a devout Man, was the driving force in getting Slavery
abolished in the UK; where were the Atheists?
When Black folks were getting hosed, and dogs set on them, and being
blown up in churches, etc et al, where were Atheists? Where were they
on that Pettis Bridge on Bloody Sunday?
Was it Atheists who stood with the Solidarity Movement in Poland
against the Soviet Union? As I recall, it was a religious Man, Pope
John Paul the Great, who did that.
Hitchens likes to kick dirt on Mother Theresa, but I don’t recall him
pulling up stakes to help lepers in Calcutta. Or any other Atheist for
that matter.
Let me be frank. Atheists, taken as a group, have NEVER stood up to be
counted when it mattered the most. It’s easy to talk smack from the
comfort of your cushy jobs and comfy homes, but when it comes time to
the showdown, Atheists have a marked track record for not showing up.
So, on the Eve of Jesus Christ’s birth (PBUH), I call out the Atheists-
what has your kind ever done for Humanity? Seems to me all you’ve ever
done, aside from basically being freeloaders on the freedoms and
achievements of believing folk, is destroy lives. Atheism, in
aggregate, amounts to desolation, pain and death.
If you disagree, holla back.
Now adjourn your heretical asses…
The Obsidian
---
Atheists *are* humanity. All others are *idiots*.
You are welcome.
Michael Stemper
>Well, there is the aqueduct.
Nice movie reference, but the Romans weren't atheists. Everybody had to
worship Caeser, no matter how many or few others they worshipped.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Indians scattered on dawn's highway bleeding;
Ghosts crowd the young child's fragile eggshell mind.
Malte Runz
> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-ever-done-for-anybody/
>
> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
> December 24, 2009 – 10:51 am
(snip)
> For me, it’s a no-brainer-anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who tries to make
> he case that Religion is a net negative for Humanity and that Atheism
> is a better choice, I have but one question:
>
> What has Atheism EVER done for Humanity, in the positive?
In one word: science.
You don't find gods in any mathematical formula or in any of the great
scientific theories. Theories that makes it possible to cure and/or
erradicate diseases, create wealth and prosperity for more people than ever,
and so on.
And yes, some of those scientists are theists, but their work is absolutely
God-free, and therefore atheistic.
>
> I mean, here in the USA, it’s a documented fact that both Slavery and
> the Civil Rights Movement was started and seen through to its end in
> one case and success in the other, by the religious community, not the
> atheist one.
Was there an 'atheist community'?
> Wilburforce, a devout Man, was the driving force in getting Slavery
> abolished in the UK; where were the Atheists?
Pretending to be 'true Christians' and not getting bullied?
>
> When Black folks were getting hosed, and dogs set on them, and being
> blown up in churches, etc et al, where were Atheists? Where were they
> on that Pettis Bridge on Bloody Sunday?
Who did the hosing, and who released the hounds in the first place?
> Was it Atheists who stood with the Solidarity Movement in Poland
> against the Soviet Union? ...
But I thought...? Didn't the evil communists turn all the Poles into
atheists.
> ... As I recall, it was a religious Man, Pope
> John Paul the Great, who did that.
... when he wasn't busy hiding the fact that his boys just wouldn't stop
screwing the cute alterboys. What a great man indeed.
>
> Hitchens likes to kick dirt on Mother Theresa, but I don’t recall him
> pulling up stakes to help lepers in Calcutta. Or any other Atheist for
> that matter.
>
> Let me be frank. Atheists, taken as a group, have NEVER stood up to be
> counted when it mattered the most. ...
It is because we atheists don't form a group. We just live our lives without
believing in gods. Some do good things, some don't. What's your problem?
And what has religion ever done for humanity, in the positive? I am serious.
Name one good thing.
(snip)
--
Malte Runz
John Locke
<Reuse....@Reduce.now> wrote:
>Joe Bruno wrote:
>
>> What have atheists done for humanity?
>> Let me count:
>> The USSR:
>>
>> 1,KGB repression
>> 2,gulags
>> 3.Russian civil war(1917-22)Millions dead from wounds and starvation
>> 4.Occupation of Eastern Europe and suppression of human rights
>>
>> Poland
>> Romania
>> Hungary
>> Albania
>> Czecholovakia
>> Yugoslavia
>> East Germany
>
>
>Another example of an uneducated hick spouting stuff about which he
Hey...nice summary ! Right on.
---------------------------------------------------------------
""All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian,
or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to
terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
-- Thomas Paine
Barb May
>
> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
Atheists developed a standard for scientific method based on empirical
evidence rather than religious superstition.
--
Barb
Joe Ramirez
wrote:
> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
>
> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
> Richard Dawkins and others, Atheism seems to have made something of a
> comeback.
"Comeback"? That's mindless cant. Atheism's current modest increase in
popularity probably reflects an all-time high, not a restoration of
former glory.
> What has Atheism EVER done for Humanity, in the positive?
Who cares? From metaphysics I expect only truth, not utility.
Prior #3
> what has your kind ever done for Humanity? Seems to me all you’ve ever
> done, aside from basically being freeloaders on the freedoms and
> achievements of believing folk, is destroy lives. Atheism, in
> aggregate, amounts to desolation, pain and death.
>
> If you disagree, holla back.
The flames of ignorance burn without pain. Beware the power, for it
will consume you before you know.
Mike Schilling
> In article <hqna7q$90e$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, "Mike
> Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> Well, there is the aqueduct.
>
> Nice movie reference, but the Romans weren't atheists. Everybody had
> to
> worship Caeser, no matter how many or few others they worshipped.
Right, which is one reason the Jews, who refused on sound monotheistic
grounds, were never viewed as loyal Roman subjects.
clouddreamer
> On Apr 21, 8:58 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
> wrote:
>> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
>>
>> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>>
>> In recent years, thanks to the efforts of Christopher Hitchens,
>> Richard Dawkins and others, Atheism seems to have made something of a
>> comeback.
>
> "Comeback"? That's mindless cant. Atheism's current modest increase in
> popularity probably reflects an all-time high, not a restoration of
> former glory.
>
Modest? Atheism is the fastest growing "religion" today. With each
census in western nations, the number of those listing no religion doubles.
In some nations, the number of those with no religion or not practicing
is now the majority.
..
--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us.
raven1
wrote:
You've never heard of "Liberation Theology", have you?
JayPee Vee
They drink coffee too.
Should we ban coffee?
Some wear glasses... Should we arrest people who wear glasses?
Syd M.
wrote:
Well, well... Look what the cat dragged in.
> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
>
> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
Well, we brought the world out of your control, namely the Dark Ages.
And advanced medicine, knowledge, and literature tenfold while you lot
were singing hymns to your selfish, egotistical tyrant.
PDW
Syd M.
> JayPee piddled in his pants:
>
>
>
> > fasgnadh provided evidence of teh historical failure of atheism:
> >> Sound of Trumpet outlined Historical atheism :
> >>>http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
>
> >>> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
>
> >>> Religion-not their admiration, but rather their disdain, contempt and
> >>> in some cases, hatred for it. In fact, it’s kinda seen as a badge of
> >>> honor, if you’re supposedly smart, to be a non-believer.
>
> >>> Richard Dawkins and others, Atheism seems to have made something of a
> >>> publicly held debates against believers have been mounted by the
> >>> Unfaithful.
>
> >>> Much of these debates I find to be boring, but the one debate, which
> >>> is easily accessible on YouTube, made me take pause. It was held at
> >>> King’s College in NYC, and had on the pro-religion side Dinesh
> >>> D’Souza; and on the anti-religion side, Christopher Hitchens. Both had
> >>> put out books arguing for their side around that time.
>
> >>> I have to say, that while I enjoy much of what Hitchens has to say, he
> >>> got pawned by D’Souza in this debate. When D’Souza mentioned all the
> >>> atrocities done in the name of Atheism, Hitchens tried to backpeddle
> >>> from his strident advocacy of Atheism; when he tried to bully D’Souza
> >>> by hogging the mike, D’Souza rightly noted that the Atheist position
> >>> is to basically try to dominate the public square and the terms of
> >>> debate.
>
> >>> he case that Religion is a net negative for Humanity and that Atheism
> >>> is a better choice, I have but one question:
>
>
> >> takes power and spawns a handful of the most oppressive tyrannies the
> >> world has ever seen, the atheist states;
> >> the Union of Savage Slaughter and Repression (USSR), Mao's Great
> >> Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution, Pol Pots Cambodian Genocide.
>
> >> #http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
> >> #
> >> # "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
> >> # by a government, typically by active suppression of
> >> # religious freedom and practice."
> >> # - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
> >> # Characteristics and Consequences,
> >> # David Kowalewski,
> >> # Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
> >> #
> >> #
> >> # "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia’s Buddhist religion:
> >> # monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
> >> # Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
> >> # other religious sentiments were often killed.
> >> # ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
> >> # and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
> >> # and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
> >> # starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
> >> # prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
> >> # instead of the family.
> >> #
> >> # About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
> >> # were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot’s regime."
> >> # - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
> >> #
> >> # The Cambodian Genocide:
> >>http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millo...
>
> >> #
> >> # "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
> >> # regarded by the regime as social parasites,
> >> # were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
> >> # Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
> >> # destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
> >> # Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
> >> # rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
> >> # or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
> >> # were often killed.
> >> #
> >> # The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
> >> # persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
> >> # Phnom Penh was completely razed.
> >> #
> >> # The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
> >> # regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
> >> # Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
> >> # - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
> >> #
> >> # "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
> >> # because of their religion."
> >> #
> >>http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboy...
>
> >> #
> >> #
> >> # "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
> >> # - Daniel Peris,
> >> # "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
> >> # Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
> >> #
> >> #
> >> # "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
> >> # countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
> >> # Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
> >> # Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
> >> # promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
> >> # - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
> >> # Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
> >> #
> >> # In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
> >> # intrinsic part of communist ideology.
>
> >>> I mean, here in the USA, it’s a documented fact that both Slavery and
> >>> the Civil Rights Movement was started and seen through to its end in
> >>> one case and success in the other, by the religious community, not the
> >>> atheist one.
>
> >> continues to unfold.
>
> >>> Wilburforce, a devout Man, was the driving force in getting Slavery
> >>> abolished in the UK; where were the Atheists?
>
> >> creating and sustaining the great and enduring world civilisations.
>
> >> But every atheist state has been a totalitarian tyranny! 8^o
>
> >> The conclusion is obvious.
>
> >>> When Black folks were getting hosed, and dogs set on them, and being
> >>> blown up in churches, etc et al, where were Atheists? Where were they
> >>> on that Pettis Bridge on Bloody Sunday?
>
> >>> John Paul the Great, who did that.
>
> >>> pulling up stakes to help lepers in Calcutta. Or any other Atheist for
> >>> that matter.
>
> >>> Let me be frank. Atheists, taken as a group, have NEVER stood up to be
> >>> comfort of your cushy jobs and comfy homes, but when it comes time to
> >>> the showdown, Atheists have a marked track record for not showing up.
>
> >>> what has your kind ever done for Humanity? Seems to me all you’ve ever
> >>> done, aside from basically being freeloaders on the freedoms and
> >>> achievements of believing folk, is destroy lives. Atheism, in
> >>> aggregate, amounts to desolation, pain and death.
>
> >>> If you disagree, holla back.
>
>
> >>> The Obsidian
>
>
> >> Well done.
>
> >> You will be attacked and vilified, but not met in rational debate.
>
> Apart from mindlessly snipping ideas that atheists can't deal with
You have no 'ideas,' Failednuts.
Only lies.
PDW
Syd M.
No.
They were Communist, asshole.
There IS a difference.
PDW
Syd M.
No.
PDW
Father Haskell
> On Apr 21, 6:49 am, clouddreamer <Reuse.Recy...@Reduce.now> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Joe Bruno wrote:
> > > What have atheists done for humanity?
> > > Let me count:
> > > The USSR:
>
> > > 1,KGB repression
> > > 2,gulags
> > > 3.Russian civil war(1917-22)Millions dead from wounds and starvation
> > > 4.Occupation of Eastern Europe and suppression of human rights
>
> > > Poland
> > > Romania
> > > Hungary
> > > Albania
> > > Czecholovakia
> > > Yugoslavia
> > > East Germany
>
> > Another example of an uneducated hick spouting stuff about which he
> > knows nothing.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Then it was atheists who built this bad boy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgtaeRZjWNc
The Starmaker
Oh, that is garbage..
Atheists have beliefs based on faith just like any religious person..
Atheist have the belief that their mother is really their mother without getting
a DNA test, without gettin "emperical evidence', ...they just have the 'faith' that their mother
is their real biological mother.
They probably believe in flying saucers too!
...furthmore, atheist probably believe intelligent life exist somewhere in the universe, ..
doesn't even exist on earth...
There certaintly no "emperical evidence" that intelligent life exist on Earth. Where is the edvience?
The Starmaker
Father Haskell
>
> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
Taught the world not to worry about mythical gods, demons,
and other assorted equivalent monsters living under the bed.
Hatter
Well, He does have the idea of using the bad company fallacy in every
post he makes it somehow makes it less of a fallacy.
Hatter
Joe Ramirez
> Atheists have beliefs based on faith just like any religious person..
>
> Atheist have the belief that their mother is really their mother without getting
> a DNA test, without gettin "emperical evidence', ...they just have the 'faith' that their mother
> is their real biological mother.
These are very different kinds of belief, obviously. Faith refers to
belief in something that is beyond human experience and understanding,
i.e., unknowable by humans. In contrast, everyday life requires simple
trust in many things that are well within the human sphere of
knowledge, but are simply unknown by me personally. The relationship
between mother and child is quite knowable, even if a particular child
doesn't have the first-hands facts about his or her own parentage. The
purported relationship between god and man is not knowable by anyone,
by definition.
Syd M.
>
> > Sound of Trumpet wrote:
>
> > > What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
> > Atheists developed a standard for scientific method based on empirical
> > evidence rather than religious superstition.
>
> > --
> > Barb
>
> Oh, that is garbage..
>
> Atheists have beliefs based on faith just like any religious person..
>
No.
PDW
Syd M.
Wishful thinking, you mean?
PDW
fasgnadh
> "Sound of Trumpet" <soundof...@dcemail.com> wrote in message
> news:73110d4a-3132-4509...@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-ever-done-for-anybody/
>>
>>
What a load of shit.. Science has contributed to our knowledge
of the world, and most of the worlds great science has been done by
THEISTS!
From Copernicus, Ibn Sina, Al Gibra, Galileo to Newton, Pasteur, Pascal
and LeMaitre.
And it was their belief that the Universe had meaning that encouraged
them to discover it! B^]
> It has given all mankind a chance to survive.
Atheist regimes were responsible for over 70,000,000 deaths in
the 20th century alone.. it gave mankind the chance to SUFFER and DIE.
Atheism has nothing to do with science.
> It has fought to free mankind in both body and mind.
And the greatest exponents of science in history have been THEIST;
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
There can never be any real opposition between religion and science.
Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the
religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if
all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance
and harmony.
- Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics
"Where is Science Going" 1918
"Something unknown is doing we don't know what"
-Sir Arthur Eddington
Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can
soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not
possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the
wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism.
- 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911
Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of
the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as
well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces
worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the
facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost
beyond question." (2)
George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in
the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the
complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use
the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological
status of the word." (3)
Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it
quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be
some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the
explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something
instead of nothing." (6)
John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards,
a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the
Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could
never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances
indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)
George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the
thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather,
Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)
Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or
Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present
state of scientific theory." (9)
Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique
event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very
delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to
permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say
'supernatural') plan." (10)
Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe
has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)
Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty
of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very
tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am
sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)
Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by
our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the
divine." (13)
Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has
lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad
dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to
conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he
is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for
centuries." (14)
Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall… be able to
take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and
the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the
ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of
God." (15)
Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my
career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced
atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be
writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-
Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are
straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand
them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable
logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since
has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The
Physics Of Christianity.
Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is
described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created
it."(17)
Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the
existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and
refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie
evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that
requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one....
Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the
teleological or design argument." (18)
Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe,
in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but
our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)
Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no
question but that a God will always be needed." (20)
Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe,
however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial
conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)
Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981
Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the
marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how.
The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God
in the universe and in my own life." (22)
Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and
director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the
University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes
in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to
myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little
corner of God's plan." (23)
Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to
understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a
superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to
comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)
Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in
Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I
can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100
billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed
and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would
contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that
the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out
of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to
that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may
extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be
entirely unique." (25)
"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a
little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the
ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It
does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the
child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly
suspects." - Albert Einstein
"The statistical probability that organic structures and the most
precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be
generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry
I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28
"The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a
knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge,
and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off
even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a
chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems
unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived --
you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies
(noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide
University)
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids
was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous
scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was
based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous
astronomical observations,
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were believers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
> Religion, on the other hand, has caused mankind to live in fear and terror.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHA
Fear and terror is the NATURE of EVERY atheist regime in history (USSR,
Maoist China, Pol Pots Cambodia) even today, the last atheist state, Nth
Korea is a totalitarian Tyranny where starving people ATE GRASS! pffft!
Religion has inspired and sustained the Great and Enduring
Civilisations, and it is Free, open, democratic, secular MAJORITY
R#ELIGIOUS societies that people want to live.. even ATHEISTS CHOOSE
to live in them rather than in atheist Nth Korea!
Atheism has never even produced a decent democratic state,
let alone a great and enduring civilisation.
Atheists are HYPOCRITICAL blowhards, they publish UNPROVEN beliefs
on t-shirts and the sides of buses, but when asked for EVIDENCE they
backflip and try to pretend 'atheism is only the non belief in something'
Ok, if that's all it is then it is obvious why it has PRODUCED NOTHING
of any value in history! B^]
Make up your minds, you hypocritical, illogical, confused fuckwits..
If atheism is an ideology affecting the world, then you must ACCEPT that
it is ALWAYS a deadly tyranny.. otherwise it is a useless,
ineffectual, irrelevant sub-branch of Nihilism, a simplistic, do-nothing
idea for adolescents too stupid to construct a useful world view.
> Religion has caused each and every war in history,
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAA
Ignorant atheists are CLUELESS;
Atheist states were responsible for 70,000,000 deaths in just 7 decades
last century, including Civil wars;
First, Lenin's Red Terror, Atheism in praxis;
# Russian Civil War (1917-22): 9 000 000 [make link]
* Eckhardt: 500,000 civ. + 300,000 mil. = 800,000
* Readers Companion to Military History, Cowley and Parker, eds.
(1996)
[http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/mil/html/mh_045400_russiancivil.htm]:
o Combat deaths: 825,000
o Ancillary deaths: 2,000,000
o TOTAL: 2,825,000
* Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998)
o Civil War and Volga Famine (1918-22): 3,000,000 to 5,000,000
* Brzezinski, Z:
o 6 to 8 million people died under Lenin from war, famine etc.
* Mastering Twentieth Century Russian History by Norman Lowe (2002)
o TOTAL: 7,000,000 to 10,000,000
o Red Army
+ Battle: 632,000
+ Disease: 581,000
o Whites: 1,290,000 battle + disease
o White Terror: "tens of thousands"
o Red Terror
+ Executed: 50-200,000
+ Died in prison or killed in revolts: 400,000
o Typhoid + typhus
+ 1919: 890,000
+ 1920: >1M
* Urlanis:
o Military deaths: 800,000
+ Battle deaths, all sides: 300,000
+ Dead of wounds: 50,000
+ Disease: 450,000
o Civilians: 8,000,000
o TOTAL: 8,800,000
* Dyadkin, I.G. (cited in Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993)
o 9 million unnatural deaths from terror, famine and disease,
1918-23
* Richard Pipes, A concise history of the Russian Revolution
(1995): 9 million deaths, 1917-1922
o Famine: 5M
o Combat: 2M
+ Reds: 1M
+ Whites: 127,000
o Epidemics: 2M
o not incl.
+ Emigration: 2M
+ Birth deficit: 14M
* Rummel:
o Civil War (1917-22)
+ War: 1,410,000 (includes 500,000 civilian)
+ Famine: 5,000,000 (50% democidal)
+ Other democide: 784,000
+ Epidemics: 2,300,000
+ Total: 9,494,000
o Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
+ Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000
democides.
* Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997)
o 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and disease.
+ Including...
# Famine (1921-22): 5 million
# Killed in fighting, both military and civilian: 1M
# Jews killed in pogroms: 150,000
+ Not including...
# Demographic effects of a hugely reduced
birth-rate: 10M
# Emmigration: 2M
* McEvedy, Colin (Atlas of World Population History, 1978)
o War deaths: 2M
o Other excess deaths: 14M
o Reduced births: 10M
o Emmigration: 2M
* MEDIAN: Of these ten estimates that claim to be complete, the
median is 8.8M-9.0M.
* PARTIALS:
o Small & Singer (battle deaths, 1917-21)
+ Russian Civil War (Dec.1917-Oct.1920)
# Russians: 500,000
# Allied Intervention:
* Japan: 1,500
* UK: 350
* USA: 275
* France: 50
* Finland: 50
+ Russian Nationalities War (Dec.1917-Mar.1921)
# USSR: 50,000
o Bruce Lincoln, Red Victory: a History of the Russian Civil
War 1918-1921
+ Death sentences by the Cheka: ca. 100,000
+ Pogroms: as many as one in 13 Jews k. out of 1.5M in
Ukraine [i.e. ca. 115,000] (citing Heifetz)
o Nevins, citing Heifetz and the Red Cross: 120,000 Jews
killed in 1919 pogroms [http://www.west.net/~jazz/felshtin/redcross.html]
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): Cheka responsible for
maybe 250,000+ violent deaths.
o Paul Johnson
+ 50,000 death sentences imposed by the Cheka by 12/20
+ 100,000 Jews killed in 1919
o Green, Barbara (in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
+ 4 to 5 million deaths in the famine of 1921-23
o Max Boot, The Savage Wars of Peace
+ North Russia: 244 USAns d. incl. 144 k.battle
+ Siberia: 160 USAns KIA + 168 other d.
+ [US Total: 304 KIA + 268 other = 572 d.]
+ Czech Legion: 13,000 dead.
# Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20 000 000 [make link]
* There are basically two schools of thought when it comes to the
number who died at Stalin's hands. There's the "Why doesn't anyone
realize that communism is the absolutely worst thing ever to hit the
human race, without exception, even worse than both world wars, the
slave trade and bubonic plague all put together?" school, and there's
the "Come on, stop exaggerating. The truth is horrifying enough without
you pulling numbers out of thin air" school. The two schools are
generally associated with the right and left wings of the political
spectrum, and they often accuse each other of being blinded by
prejudice, stubbornly refusing to admit the truth, and maybe even having
a hidden agenda. Also, both sides claim that recent access to former
Soviet archives has proven that their side is right.
* Here are a few illustrative estimates from the Big Numbers school:
o Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993 cites these:
+ Chistyakovoy, V. (Neva, no.10): 20 million killed
during the 1930s.
+ Dyadkin, I.G. (Demograficheskaya statistika
neyestestvennoy smertnosti v SSSR 1918-1956 ): 56 to 62 million
"unnatural deaths" for the USSR overall, with 34 to 49 million under Stalin.
+ Gold, John.: 50-60 million.
o Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998): c. 50 million
killed 1924-53, excluding WW2 war losses. This would divide (more or
less) into 33M pre-war and 17M after 1939.
o Rummel, 1990: 61,911,000 democides in the USSR 1917-87, of
which 51,755,000 occurred during the Stalin years. This divides up into:
+ 1923-29: 2,200,000 (plus 1M non-democidal famine deaths)
+ 1929-39: 15,785,000 (plus 2M non-democidal famine)
+ 1939-45: 18,157,000
+ 1946-54: 15,613,000 (plus 333,000 non-democidal famine)
+ TOTAL: 51,755,000 democides and 3,333,000 non-demo.
famine
o William Cockerham, Health and Social Change in Russia and
Eastern Europe: 50M+
o Wallechinsky: 13M (1930-32) + 7M (1934-38)
+ Cited by Wallechinsky:
# Medvedev, Roy (Let History Judge): 40 million.
# Solzhenitsyn, Aleksandr: 60 million.
o MEDIAN: 51 million for the entire Stalin Era; 20M during
the 1930s.
* And from the Lower Numbers school:
o Nove, Alec ("Victims of Stalinism: How Many?" in J. Arch
Getty (ed.) Stalinist Terror: New Perspectives, 1993): 9,500,000
"surplus deaths" during the 1930s.
o Cited in Nove:
+ Maksudov, S. (Poteri naseleniya SSSR, 1989): 9.8
million abnormal deaths between 1926 and 1937.
+ Tsaplin, V.V. ("Statistika zherty naseleniya v 30e
gody" 1989): 6,600,000 deaths (hunger, camps and prisons) between the
1926 and 1937 censuses.
+ Dugin, A. ("Stalinizm: legendy i fakty" 1989):
642,980 counterrevolutionaries shot 1921-53.
+ Muskovsky Novosti (4 March 1990): 786,098 state
prisoners shot, 1931-53.
o Gordon, A. (What Happened in That Time?, 1989, cited in
Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993): 8-9 million during the 1930s.
o Ponton, G. (The Soviet Era, 1994): cites an 1990 article by
Milne, et al., that excess deaths 1926-39 were likely 3.5 million and at
most 8 million.
o MEDIAN: 8.5 Million during the 1930s.
* As you can see, there's no easy compromise between the two
schools. The Big Numbers are so high that picking the midpoint between
the two schools would still give us a Big Number. It may appear to be a
rather pointless argument -- whether it's fifteen or fifty million, it's
still a huge number of killings -- but keep in mind that the population
of the Soviet Union was 164 million in 1937, so the upper estimates
accuse Stalin of killing nearly 1 out of every 3 of his people, an
extremely Polpotian level of savagery. The lower numbers, on the other
hand, leave Stalin with plenty of people still alive to fight off the
German invasion.
* [Letter]
* Although it's too early to be taking sides with absolute
certainty, a consensus seems to be forming around a death toll of 20
million. This would adequately account for all documented nastiness
without straining credulity:
o In The Great Terror (1969), Robert Conquest suggested that
the overall death toll was 20 million at minimum -- and very likely 50%
higher, or 30 million. This would divide roughly as follows: 7M in
1930-36; 3M in 1937-38; 10M in 1939-53. By the time he wrote The Great
Terror: A Re-assessment (1992), Conquest was much more confident that 20
million was the likeliest death toll.
o Britannica, "Stalinism": 20M died in camps, of famine,
executions, etc., citing Medvedev
o Brzezinski: 20-25 million, dividing roughly as follows: 7M
destroying the peasantry; 12M in labor camps; 1M excuted during and
after WW2.
o Daniel Chirot:
+ "Lowest credible" estimate: 20M
+ "Highest": 40M
+ Citing:
# Conquest: 20M
# Antonov-Ovseyenko: 30M
# Medvedev: 40M
o Courtois, Stephane, Black Book of Communism (Le Livre Noir
du Communism): 20M for the whole history of Soviet Union, 1917-91.
+ Essay by Nicolas Werth: 15M
+ [Ironic observation: The Black Book of Communism
seems to vote for Hitler as the answer to the question of who's worse,
Hitler (25M) or Stalin (20M).]
o John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen (2001): 20M, incl.
+ Kulaks: 7M
+ Gulag: 12M
+ Purge: 1.2M (minus 50,000 survivors)
o Adam Hochschild, The Unquiet Ghost: Russians Remember
Stalin: directly responsible for 20 million deaths.
o Tina Rosenberg, The Haunted Land: Facing Europes Ghosts
After Communism (1995): upwards of 25M
o Time Magazine (13 April 1998): 15-20 million.
* AVERAGE: Of the 17 estimates of the total number of victims of
Stalin, the median is 30 million.
* Individual Gulags etc.
o Kolyma
o Kuropaty
o Vorkuta
o Bykivnia
* Famine, 1926-38
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): 4.2M in Ukraine + 1.7M
in Kazakhstan
o Green, Barbara ("Stalinist Terror and the Question of
Genocide: the Great Famine" in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
cites these sources for the number who died in the famine:
+ Nove: 3.1-3.2M in Ukraine, 1933
+ Maksudov: 4.4M in Ukraine, 1927-38
+ Mace: 5-7M in Ukraine
+ Osokin: 3.35M in USSR, 1933
+ Wheatcraft: 4-5M in USSR, 1932-33
+ Conquest:
# Total, USSR, 1926-37: 11M
# 1932-33: 7M
# Ukraine: 5M
######################################################################
# Next, just to show it's a CONSISTENT PATTERN in EVERY ATHEIST REGIME,
#
# Mao's Cultural Devolution and Great Leap Backward!
#
######################################################################
# People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975):
40 000 000
* Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from
Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:
o Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths
o Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-43M
o Cultural Revolution: 2-7M
o Labor Camps: 20M
o Tibet: 0.6-1.2M
o TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M
* Jasper Becker, Hungry Ghosts : Mao's Secret Famine (1996)
o Estimates of the death toll from the Great Leap Forward,
1959-61:
+ Judith Banister, China's Changing Population (1984):
30M excess deaths (acc2 Becker: "the most reliable estimate we have")
+ Wang Weizhi, Contemporary Chinese Population (1988):
19.5M deaths
+ Jin Hui (1993): 40M population loss due to "abnormal
deaths and reduced births"
+ Chen Yizi of the System Reform Inst.: 43-46M deaths
* Brzezinski:
o Forcible collectivization: 27 million peasants
o Cultural Revolution: 1-2 million
o TOTAL: 29 million deaths under Mao
* Daniel Chirot:
o Land reform, 1949-56
+ According to Zhou Enlai: 830,000
+ According to Mao Zedong: 2-3M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-40 million deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 1-20 million
* Jung Chang, Mao: the Unknown Story (2005)
o Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries, 1950-51:
3M by execution, mob or suicide
o Three-Anti Campaign, 1952-53: 200,000-300,000 suicides
o Great Leap Forward, 1958-61: 38M of starvation and overwork
o Cultural Revolution, 1966-76: > 3M died violent deaths
o Laogai camp deaths, 1949-76: 27M
o TOTAL under Mao: 70M
* Dictionary of 20C World History: around a half million
died in Cultural Rev.
* Eckhardt:
o Govt executes landlords (1950-51): 1,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1967-68): 50,000
* Gilbert:
o 1958-61 Famine: 30 million deaths.
* Kurt Glaser and Stephan Possony, Victims of Politics (1979):
o They estimate the body count under Mao to be 38,000,000
to 67,000,000.
o Cited by G & P:
+ Walker Report (see below): 44.3M to 63.8M deaths.
+ The Government Information Office of Taiwan (18 Sept.
1970): 37M deaths in the PRC.
+ A Radio Moscow report (7 Apr. 1969): 26.4M people had
been exterminated in China.
+ (NOTE: Obviously the Soviets and Taiwanese would, as
enemies, be strongly motivated to exaggerate.)
* Guinness Book of World Records:
o Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare Mao
to be the Top Dog in the Mass Killings category, earlier
editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which
are similar, but not identical, to the Glaser & Possony sources:
+ On 7 Apr. 1969 the Soviet government radio reported
that 26,300,000 people were killed in China, 1949-65.
+ In April 1971 the cabinet of the government of Taiwan
reported 39,940,000 deaths for the years 1949-69.
+ The Walker Report (see below): between 32,2500,000
and 61,700,000.
* Harff and Gurr:
o KMT cadre, rich peasants, landlords (1950-51):
800,000-3,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1966-75): 400,000-850,000
* John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen:
27M death toll, incl. 2M in Cultural Revolution
* Paul Johnson doesn't give an overall total, but he gives
estimates for the principle individual mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Land reform, first years of PRC: at least 2 million people
perished.
o Great Leap Forward: "how many millions died ...
is a matter of conjecture."
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, calling the 3 Feb. 1979
estimate by Agence France Presse, "The most widely respected figure".
* Meisner, Maurice, Mao's China and After (1977, 1999), doesn't
give an overall total either, but he does give estimates for the three
principle mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Terror against the counterrevolutionaries: 2 million people
executed during the first three years of the PRC.
o Great Leap Forward: 15-30 million famine-related deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, citing a 1979 estimate by
Agence France Presse.
* R. J. Rummel:
o Estimate:
+ Democide: 34,361,000 (1949-75)
# The principle episodes being...
* All movements (1949-58): 11,813,000
o incl. Land Reform (1949-53): 4,500,000
* Cult. Rev. (1964-75): 1,613,000
* Forced Labor (1949-75): 15,000,000
* Great Leap Forward (1959-63): 5,680,000
democides
+ War: 3,399,000
+ Famine: 34,500,000
# Great Leap Forward: 27M famine deaths
+ TOTAL: 72,260,000
o Cited in Rummel:
+ Li, Cheng-Chung (Republic of China, 1979): 78.86M
direct/indirect deaths.
+ World Anti-Communist League, True Facts of Maoist
Tyranny (1971): 64.5M
+ Glaser & Possony: 38 to 67M (see above)
+ Walker Report, 1971 (see below): 31.75M to 58.5M
casualties of Communism (excluding Korean War).
+ Current Death Toll of International Communism (1979):
39.9M
+ Stephen R. Shalom (1984), Center for Asian Studies,
Deaths in China Due To Communism: 3M to 4M death toll,
excluding famine.
* Walker, Robert L., The Human Cost of Communism in China (1971,
report to the US Senate Committee of the Judiciary)
"Casualties to Communism" (deaths):
o 1st Civil War (1927-36): .25-.5M
o Fighting during Sino-Japanese War (1937-45): 50,000
o 2nd Civil War (1945-49): 1.25M
o Land Reform prior to Liberation: 0.5-1.0M
o Political liquidation campaigns: 15-30M
o Korean War: 0.5-1.234M
o Great Leap Forward: 1-2M
o Struggle with minorities: 0.5-1.0M
o Cultural Revolution: .25-.5M
o Deaths in labor camps: 15-25M
o TOTAL: 34.3M to 63.784M
o TOTAL FOR PRC: 32M to 59.5M
* July 17, 1994, Washington Post (Great Leap Forward 1959-61)
o Shanghai University journal, Society: > 40 million
o Cong Jin: 40 million
o Chen Yizi: 43 million in the famine. 80 million total as a
result of Mao's policies.
* Weekly Standard, 29 Sept. 1997, "The Laogai Archipelago" by D.
Aikman:
o Between 1949 and 1997, 50M prisoners passed through the
labor camps, and 15,000,000 died (citing Harry Wu)
* WHPSI: 1,633,319 political executions and 25,961 deaths from
political violence, 1948-77. TOTAL: 1,659,280
* Analysis: If we line up the 14 sources which claim to be
complete, the median falls in the 45.75 to 52.5 million
range, so you probably can't go wrong picking a final
number from this neighborhood.
Depending on how you want to count some of the incomplete
estimates (such as Becker and Meisner) and whether to count a
source twice (or thrice, as with Walker) if it's referenced by
two different authorities, you can slide the median up and
down the scale by many millions. Keep in mind, however, that
official Chinese records are hidden from scrutiny,
so most of these numbers are pure guesses. It's pointless
to get attached to any one of them, because the real number
could easily be half or twice any number here.
* Perhaps a better way of estimating would be to add up the
individual components. The medians here are:
o Purges, etc. during the first few years: 2M (10 estimates)
o Great Leap Forward: 31-33M (14 estimates)
o Cultural Revolution: 1M (13 estimates)
o Ethnic Minorities, primarily Tibetans: 750-900T
(8 estimates, see below)
o Labor Camps: 20M (5 estimates)
o This produces a total of some 54,750,000 to 56,900,000
deaths. The weak link in this calculation is in the
Labor Camp numbers for which we only have 5 estimates.
* Notice that many early body counts (such as Walker) completely
miss the famine during the Great Leap Forward, which was
largely unknown in the west until around 1980. There are two
contradictory ways to assess those early estimates which
ignore the famine:
1. "If these are the numbers that they came up with without
the famine, imagine how high the true number will be
once you add the famine deaths."
2. "Can we trust any of these numbers? After all, if they
missed such a huge famine, they can't have known very much
about what was going on inside China."
* ... so this line of reasoning will get us nowhere. In fact, the
median of the 7 estimate that predate 1980 is 45.7M, which is
almost the same as the median of the 7 estimates that post-date
1980 -- 58M. (At this scale, a 12M difference counts as "almost
the same".)
Now, remember, these are the CITIZENS of those atheist shitholes being
killed by the Atheist regimes who made their lives such misery and
despair that when the atheist regimes crumbled from their own evil and
incompetence, the people could not wait to shuck off the filthy atheist
shitpigs and their nightmare.. and embrace a path more tolerant of
religion.. since then their nations have prospered.. still suffering
the deep scars of atheist abuse, but once more part of Civilisation and
making progress!!
Now, all you have to do is show similar EVIDENCE.. not your IDIOTIC
OPINIONS, or those of some other atheist cretin.. that countries like
the USA, which Prints "In God We Trust" on it's money, is in any way
such a murderous tyranny, torturing terrorising and murdering over
20,000,000 of it's citizens!
Off you go you snivelling atheist fraud!
> including the present world war.
WTF??? B^D has this fuckwit been taken off his meds?
> Religion has brought sickness and death,
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA
Islam developed Hospices (Hospitals), surgical instruments
and Muslims were founders of Medical science and Chemistry,
Under atheist regimes people STARVED in their millions!
> Atheism has brought
> healing and life.
> Religion, bad. Atheism, good.
Can someone take that 5 year old and change his nappy, it's
FULL OF INFANTILE SHITE!
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
Not satisfied with murder, Steve favours GENOCIDE,
just like that carried out by the atheists in Cambodia;
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
# Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
# Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv...@4ax.com>
# Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
#
# On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
# <blondes_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
# >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
#
# It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
# The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
fasgnadh
> One fine day in alt.atheism, Sound of Trumpet <soundof...@dcemail.com>
>
>> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
> Katherine Hepburn, Jody Foster, George Carlin, Kevin Bacon, Angelina Jolie,
> Gene Wilder, Daniel Radcliffe, etc.
Actors and musicians, all of whose talents have NOTHING To Do WITH ATHEISM.
None of it was done DUE to atheism which is a useless unprovable belief
that something doesn't exist... thats ALL! B^D
It is EMPTY, and that is why regimes BASED ON IT have all
degenerated into total tyranny and catastrophic failure!!
When will you cretins EVER wake up to the HISTORICAL REALITY???? B^D
> before asking prejudicial questions and
> making the assumption that doing good things for others requires a belief
> in a supernatural being.
History shows that religion has inspired and produced great and enduring
civisations, and atheism has only produced tyrannical regimes
responsible for the terror torture and death of over 70,000,000.
> A friend of mine wrote me a sad E-mail a few months ago. He was out of
> work, being sued by a credit card company, flat broke, and worst, the back
> tire on his Harley was almost bald. A few days later, his son came into
> his home studio and told him, "Dinner is ready. And there's a tire on the
> porch." I was out of work at the time, too, but I still had credit so I
> went online with BikeBandit.com and bought a rear tire, and had them
> deliver it to his house.
>
Love kindness and compassion are taught by every religioun and as they
are the foundation of all the free, open, democratic, secualar, Majority
Religious societies which even atheists prefer to live in, atheists
ABSORB the values from the prevailing, theist culture.
They just don't acknowledge the source.
Ignorant ingrates!
> If that doesn't fit your characature of an atheist, you have a lot of
> bigoted feelings that you should probably see a doctor about.
fasgnadh
> One fine day in alt.atheism, Joe Bruno <joeb...@usa.com> wrote:
>
>> On Apr 21, 6:49 am, clouddreamer <Reuse.Recy...@Reduce.now> wrote:
>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>> What have atheists done for humanity?
>>>> Let me count:
>>>> The USSR:
>>>> 1,KGB repression
>>>> 2,gulags
>>>> 3.Russian civil war(1917-22)Millions dead from wounds and starvation
>>>> 4.Occupation of Eastern Europe and suppression of human rights
>>>> Poland
>>>> Romania
>>>> Hungary
>>>> Albania
>>>> Czecholovakia
>>>> Yugoslavia
>>>> East Germany
>>> Another example of an uneducated hick spouting stuff about which he
>>> knows nothing.
>>
>
> Some of the government types were,
The entire leadership and ruling party structure were atheist,
Lenin Mao Stalin Pol Pot and EVERY Central Committee member
were atheist tyrants .. not a single democrat or morally decent
human being
> and the government saw no need for religion.
They slaughtered theists, even crucifying Christians
and turning priests into frozen ice blocks by pouring water over their
naked bodies in winter.
The atheist government was a TOTALITARIAN TYRANNY - a DICTATORSHIP,
with the entire population under it's jackboot!
> But the Soviet People were Orthodox Christian.
No the Russians were Christians, Jews, Muslims.. the SOVIET
DICTATORSHIP were ATHEIST SHITPIGS WHO TERRORISED TORTURED AND KILLED
THE THEISTS....
but despite wielding the entirety of STATE POWER, the atheist LOST,
their own incompetence, ignorance, lack of moral virtue, low
intelligence and general fuckwittedness led to the catastrophic
failure of the Atheist shitholes.. and the theists survived,
and regaine4d freedom of belief and thought and speech.. and the
NATION PROSPERED under GOD! BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!
Stick that up your arse you lying atheist moron, if you can
find room with your HEAD jammed up there!
http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
How do you feel now that your ignorance and lies are exposed?
> fucking idiot.
Yes you are, and yes you do!
fasgnadh
>
In the theory espoused by some tiny sub groups of aout-of-touch atheist
idealists, but not in reality as the most influential atheists in
history, Lenin, Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot, demonstrated:
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
> The
> truth of the matter is that some communists are atheists,
All the ones responsible for the 70,000,000 deaths in the USSR, Maoist
China and Pol Pots Cambodia were.
> and some are not.
The ones who are irrelevant to history, and acheive nothing but
endless, pointless whining about God.
Why are you afraid of the HISTORICAL truth, bigot?
Because the truth doesn't support your agenda?
Man, you morons are transparent.
fasgnadh
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:22:48 -0500, Uncle Vic <add...@withheld.com>
> wrote:
>
>> One fine day in alt.atheism, Joe Bruno <joeb...@usa.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Communists are atheists, you idiot.
>> you.
>
> Somebody remind the imbecile that SOME communists are atheist.
Just the ones responsible for mass murder in EVER atheist tyranny,
the ones that caused 70,000,000 deaths.
Some of the other communists are ok.
Malte Runz
> Barb May wrote:
>>
>> Sound of Trumpet wrote:
>>>
>>> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>>
>> Atheists developed a standard for scientific method based on
>> empirical evidence rather than religious superstition.
>>
>> --
>> Barb
>
> Oh, that is garbage..
>
> Atheists have beliefs based on faith just like any religious person..
It might seem like that to people like you.
>
> Atheist have the belief that their mother is really their mother
> without getting
> a DNA test, without gettin "emperical evidence', ...they just have
> the 'faith' that their mother
> is their real biological mother.
The difference is that I can actually verify, whether the person I believe
is my mother, is my biological mother or not. Can you get a DNA test and
check if we're all Gods children.
>
> They probably believe in flying saucers too!
You think so? Are you comparing faith in God with belief in UFOs? On one
level you could make that argument. But there is also an important
distinction to be made. UFOs are not supernatural 'beings'. They have to
obey the laws of nature
>
> ...furthmore, atheist probably believe intelligent life exist
> somewhere in the universe, ..
I think it is very likely. But I don't fantasize about what they might have
for breakfast. And they don't tell me I will get to ride in their
spaceships, if I blow myself up in a crowd of people.
>
> doesn't even exist on earth...
>
> There certaintly no "emperical evidence" that intelligent life exist
> on Earth. Where is the edvience?
1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19 etc... Oh, you're just bullshitting! Should've
known.
>
>
> The Starmaker
--
Malte Runz
fasgnadh
> In article <hqna7q$90e$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, "Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> Well, there is the aqueduct.
>
> Nice movie reference, but the Romans weren't atheists.
Roman Gods were usually based on the Greek ones.
> Everybody had to
> worship Caeser, no matter how many or few others they worshipped.
That's typical atheism, repeated with Mao, Lenin Stalin etc..
all the big, but temporary, atheist 'successes' pfffft!
The Starmaker
So, you believe your mother is your biological mother, based on what?
The Starmaker
>
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > Barb May wrote:
> >>
> >> Sound of Trumpet wrote:
> >>>
> >>> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
> >>
> >> Atheists developed a standard for scientific method based on
> >> empirical evidence rather than religious superstition.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Barb
> >
> > Oh, that is garbage..
>
> >
> > Atheists have beliefs based on faith just like any religious person..
>
> It might seem like that to people like you.
>
> >
> > Atheist have the belief that their mother is really their mother
> > without getting
> > a DNA test, without gettin "emperical evidence', ...they just have
> > the 'faith' that their mother
> > is their real biological mother.
>
> The difference is that I can actually verify, whether the person I believe
> is my mother,
Have you bothered to verify? Or, you don't have to...you already know. You *believe* she's your
mommy....
> >
> > They probably believe in flying saucers too!
>
> You think so? Are you comparing faith in God with belief in UFOs? On one
> level you could make that argument. But there is also an important
> distinction to be made. UFOs are not supernatural 'beings'. They have to
> obey the laws of nature
I wrote 'flying saucers', not UFO's...
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=flying%20saucer&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi
>
> >
> > ...furthmore, atheist probably believe intelligent life exist
> > somewhere in the universe, ..
Based on what? Just a belief...a religious belief.
>
> I think it is very likely. But I don't fantasize about what they might have
> for breakfast. And they don't tell me I will get to ride in their
> spaceships, if I blow myself up in a crowd of people.
>
> >
> > doesn't even exist on earth...
>
> >
> > There certaintly no "emperical evidence" that intelligent life exist
> > on Earth. Where is the edvience?
>
> 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19 etc...
You recognize patterns, a bird brain can recognize patterns..
http://www.youtube.com/v/BGPGknpq3e0
Numbers, just an invention of man...
God probably thinks you're funny..
The Starmaker
Syd M.
> > wrote:
>
> >> One fine day in alt.atheism, Joe Bruno <joebr...@usa.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Communists are atheists, you idiot.
> >> You really should shave the hair around your asshole, I can't understand
> >> you.
>
> > Somebody remind the imbecile that SOME communists are atheist.
>
> Just the ones responsible for mass murder in EVER atheist tyranny,
> the ones that caused 70,000,000 deaths.
>
Still refuse to stop lying, huh, Failednuts?
PDW
Not Sure
> Sound of Trumpet wrote:
>
> > What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
> Atheists developed a standard for scientific method based on empirical
> evidence rather than religious superstition.
No they didn't. Better luck lying next time :)
>
> --
> Barb
Jack
>
> - Show quoted text -
More convincing than calling someone a liar (that's easy) is
responding with countering information. In other words... tell us who
DID develop the scientific method and what were their religions? You
must have this information, because if you didn't you couldn't know
that that person is "lying." So don't be coy... tell us what you know.
Christopher A. Lee
Fagsnads probably thinks that when somebody who doesn't believe in
pixies, takes a crap it's because he doesn't believe in them.
>PDW
The Starmaker
It's knowable, so you don't need to know? Sounds like 'religion' to
me...
Absent of edvidence is not evidence of absence.
The Starmaker
Joe Ramirez
now," is it an expression of religious faith if you say "OK" instead
of rushing down there to confirm his absence for yourself? Don't be
silly.
> Absent of edvidence is not evidence of absence.
"Absence" of evidence. That maxim justifies, at best, agnosticism. It
does not justify faith; it merely fails to prohibit faith.
The Starmaker
Can you not tell he's Not Sure?
Moooon Unit
> "Absence" of evidence. That maxim justifies, at best, agnosticism. It
> does not justify faith; it merely fails to prohibit faith.
Mere absence of evidence alone, perhaps.
But there's a potent logical argument that goes much further. It notes
that everything observed can be divided into two components: a "signal"
that has some kind of pattern or systematicity to it and "noise". The
"signal" can be modeled using the tools of mathematics and physics; that
is, it is understandable and can ultimately be reduced to the inexorable
working-out of natural law. Meanwhile the "noise" can be modeled
statistically but is essentially random, unstructured, or else it would
be part of the "signal" instead.
If all observable phenomena are studied and the above applied, the end
result is a mechanistic, rational understanding of everything, plus a
bit of random noise (which quantum theory shows to be irreducible past a
certain point). There is no room here for anything that is supernatural,
that is both a) not explicable by ordinary physical laws (discovered or
yet unknown) and b) not just random noise either. If anything's not
noise, there's some kind of pattern or logic to it by definition, and
then it becomes explicable, subject eventually to a naturalistic
(non-supernaturalistic) explanation.
Ergo, the supernatural does not exist, or if it does, its effects are
indistinguishable from noise, essentially random. By Ockham's razor,
since we can explain everything just as well without invoking the
supernatural we should cut the supernatural out of all theories.
Logic dictates that the supernatural is not a necessary component of any
rational theory of the universe.
Not only is there no evidence of God, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster,
or Satan, or whatnot intervening in the universe, there *cannot* be.
Either these do not exist, or their influence is indiscernible from the
effects of random noise. For all practical purposes, then, they do not
exist, and atheism is justified over agnosticism as the most rational,
pragmatic belief.
Further, a prediction can be made: if there ever is evidence of
intervention by beings of superior capabilities or intelligence to man,
those beings will turn out to be explainable in a naturalistic manner;
that is, they'll be advanced extraterrestrial aliens or some such,
perhaps godlike in some manner but not supernatural. Similarly, if a
cause for the creation of the cosmos can be identified it will prove to
be a natural event, such as a brane collision in hyperspace, or even an
artificial event, such as a physics experiment performed by advanced
intelligences, but not a supernatural event.
Howard Brazee
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
The Starmaker
What is all this mumbo jumbo "naturalistic" garbage? Natural law, what's that? There is no
such thing as "natural law"! What book did you find these "natural laws" at?? Any laws you consider
to be "natural law" is not 'natural law', it's laws invented by man...not discovered, invented.
Nature did not leave a book of laws laying around somewhere....
You're having..supernturalisticalifragilisticexpialidocious delusions.
The Starmaker
I think it's time to start shooting the Atheists.
Moooon Unit
> Moooon Unit wrote:
>> [carefully reasoned argument deleted]
> [insult deleted]
Wrong.
> Natural law, what's that? There is no such thing as "natural law"!
Get an education.
> What book did you find these "natural laws" at??
Physics 101 is a good place to start.
> Any laws you consider to be "natural law" is not 'natural law',
> it's laws invented by man...not discovered, invented.
Nonsense. Humans didn't legislate the law of gravity; they discovered
it. It already existed.
I beseech thee, get thee to a school and take remedial high school physics.
> Nature did not leave a book of laws laying around somewhere....
The laws are "written" in the world around us, for those with eyes to
see (and, sometimes, really big and expensive particle accelerators).
> You're [vicious insult deleted]
No, you're the lunatic, as your own ranting proves.
> I think it's time to start shooting the Atheists.
Forwarded to police. It's time you started serving your jail time after
posting multiple death threats to Usenet over the past few days, kook.
Barb May
> Barb May wrote:
>>
>> Sound of Trumpet wrote:
>>>
>>> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>>
>> Atheists developed a standard for scientific method based on
>> empirical evidence rather than religious superstition.
>>
>> Barb
>
> Oh, that is garbage..
>
>
> Atheist have the belief that their mother is really their mother
> without getting
> a DNA test, without gettin "emperical evidence', ...they just have
> the 'faith' that their mother
> is their real biological mother.
>
>
> somewhere in the universe, ..
>
>
> There certaintly no "emperical evidence" that intelligent life exist
> on Earth. Where is the edvience?
>
>
LOL
"biological mothers" "flying saucers" "intelligent life on Earth"
And you call my argument garbage...
Bravo!
--
Barb
Larry
3132-4509-83d...@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> So, on the Eve of Jesus Christ's birth (PBUH), I call out the
Atheists-
> what has your kind ever done for Humanity? Seems to me all you've ever
> done, aside from basically being freeloaders on the freedoms and
> achievements of believing folk, is destroy lives. Atheism, in
> aggregate, amounts to desolation, pain and death.
>
Hmm....I'll contribute to this troll for a while.....
Nikola Tesla - Alternating current, the power supply that powers your
world. Multiphase electric motors that power rotating things from AC
power lines. The transformer that raises/lowers the voltage/current for
everything you own. Arc and flourescent lighting so you don't have to
make those candles the greenies want you to light your house
with....just a start.
Nikola Tesla - do a google search for the thousands of other devices
like bladeless turbine engines, water pumps, RADIO (A reporter was
trying to get Tesla mad when Marconi made his first transatlantic radio
transmission. "Mr Tesla, could we get you to comment?", he went on.
Tesla folded his newspaper, look the man in the eye and said, "Yes, I
know, he's paid me to use several of my patents." TESLA invented RADIO,
which has finally gotten through the thick heads at the US Patent Office
after a hundred years. Tesla also invented remote control. Your TV
remote is a direct decendent of tesla's research.
Tesla invented a remotely piloted submarine and tried to GIVE it to the
US Navy as he was quite a patriot to his adopted nation. The Navy
refused it as they saw no future in it. Of course, that changed a few
years later. Modern torpedoes are a Tesla invention.
This is just one of us. Most scientists, mathematicians, the most
intelligent minds across the planet, aren't at all delusional with
religious fantasies. Here's some interesting lists:
http://brainz.org/50-most-brilliant-atheists-all-time/
http://www.celebatheists.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.celebatheists.com/?title=Category:Scientist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Pinker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Crick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan
http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_SJGould.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/civilization/cc0012.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%
3ASearch&search=atheist+geniuses&go=Go
Well, you get the picture by now, I hope. We atheists are in VERY good
company, indeed!
You might also want to do a little research here about one of your
favorite targets you call an atheist. Adoph Hitler was as delusional a
theist as any human on the planet. Here's what he wrote so you don't go
astray on the subject....
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html
--
Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
Larry
Larry
n1LWnZ2dnU...@supernews.com:
>> The USSR:
>
There's a regular cycle of bullshit that brings up the subject of the
USSR being started by atheists. Nothing could be further from the
truth:
http://www.nickmaine.info/Documents/jewish_involvement_in_communism.htm
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-CIS.html
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-kaganovich.html
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-yagoda.html
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-stalin.html
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-trotsky.htm
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-ussr-pm-yevgeny-primakov.html
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-lenin.html
That'll prime the anti-semite pump for a week or two. Watch 'em go!
The Starmaker
>
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > Moooon Unit wrote:
> >> [carefully reasoned argument deleted]
> > [insult deleted]
>
> Wrong.
>
> > Natural law, what's that? There is no such thing as "natural law"!
>
> Get an education.
>
> > What book did you find these "natural laws" at??
>
> Physics 101 is a good place to start.
>
> > Any laws you consider to be "natural law" is not 'natural law',
> > it's laws invented by man...not discovered, invented.
>
> Nonsense. Humans didn't legislate the law of gravity; they discovered
> it. It already existed.
Gravity is not a law.
>
> I beseech thee, get thee to a school and take remedial high school physics.
>
> > Nature did not leave a book of laws laying around somewhere....
>
> The laws are "written" in the world around us,
Oh I see..."written" in "the world around us"...invisible books, written by
invisible authors...
Can you believe this garbage?
> > You're [vicious insult deleted]
>
> No, you're the lunatic, as your own ranting proves.
>
> > I think it's time to start shooting the Atheists.
>
> Forwarded to police. It's time you started serving your jail time after
> posting multiple death threats to Usenet over the past few days, kook.
Shoot the all pigs first...then the atheist.
I think I know where all the laws of nature are at...they are in the Moooooon.
The Starmaker
Laws of Nature is science fiction. There are only people who 'make-up' laws...
JohnN
wrote:
> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
>
> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
Provided you with better medical care than the Bible based pray for
them and if they die its god's will crap.
JohnN
The Starmaker
Where is the evidence? Show me what 'intelligent life' looks like, or where on earth is it?
There must be one thing you can point to that you believe to be evidence that is 'intelligent life'.
Where is it?
Is it a washing machine? ..come on where is it? I don't see any evidence of
'intelligent life' on planet Earth, or anywhere in the universe.
The Starmaker
I gotta go home...i'm not gettin nowhere..
you people probably don't know where to look...
JohnN
>
> All the ones responsible for the 70,000,000 deaths in the USSR, Maoist
> China and Pol Pots Cambodia were.
I notice that your god didn't do squat to stop the killings. That's
some omniscient being you worship.
JohnN
Tom Lee
> One fine day in alt.atheism, Joe Bruno<joeb...@usa.com> wrote:
>
>> On Apr 21, 6:49 am, clouddreamer<Reuse.Recy...@Reduce.now> wrote:
>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>> What have atheists done for humanity?
>>>> Let me count:
>>>> The USSR:
>>>
>>>> 1,KGB repression
>>>> 2,gulags
>>>> 3.Russian civil war(1917-22)Millions dead from wounds and starvation
>>>> 4.Occupation of Eastern Europe and suppression of human rights
>>>
>>>> Poland
>>>> Romania
>>>> Hungary
>>>> Albania
>>>> Czecholovakia
>>>> Yugoslavia
>>>> East Germany
>>>
>>> Another example of an uneducated hick spouting stuff about which he
>>> knows nothing.
>>
>> The Soviets were atheists, you fucking idiot.
>>
>
> Some of the government types were, and the government saw no need for
> religion. But the Soviet People were Orthodox Christian. You fucking
> idiot.
>
Perhaps, the Soviet People were, but the establishment's creed was:
"offically the USSR is an atheist state".
Mike Schilling
> Perhaps, the Soviet People were, but the establishment's creed was:
> "offically the USSR is an atheist state".
Its religion was Communism; an atheistic religion, but a religion
nonetheless, and it punished heretics in a way that makes Torquemada seem
mild by comparison.
Richo
wrote:
> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
>
> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
They have been good husbands, wifes, Mothers and Fathers.
They have been great scientists, engineers, doctors, nurses, teachers.
> What has Atheism EVER done for Humanity, in the positive?
>
It has freed many from superstition.
It has freed countless people from the quilt of ridiculous "sins".
> I mean, here in the USA, it’s a documented fact that both Slavery and
> the Civil Rights Movement was started and seen through to its end in
> one case and success in the other, by the religious community, not the
> atheist one.
>
Most Christians supported slavery - and they had the bible on their
side!
The Christians that fought to oppose slavery did so in spite of the
teachings of their relgion - and that is a good thing.
> Wilburforce, a devout Man, was the driving force in getting Slavery
> abolished in the UK; where were the Atheists?
>
They were around, but laying low - to avoid the biggotry and malice of
the mass of humanity.
In those days if you were an atheist - you would be wise to keep
silent about it.
> When Black folks were getting hosed, and dogs set on them, and being
> blown up in churches, etc et al, where were Atheists?
They were marching alongside their Christian brothers. and sisters
Mark.
Richo
> On Apr 21, 6:49 am, clouddreamer <Reuse.Recy...@Reduce.now> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Joe Bruno wrote:
> > > What have atheists done for humanity?
> > > Let me count:
> > > The USSR:
>
> > > 1,KGB repression
> > > 2,gulags
> > > 3.Russian civil war(1917-22)Millions dead from wounds and starvation
> > > 4.Occupation of Eastern Europe and suppression of human rights
>
> > > Poland
> > > Romania
> > > Hungary
> > > Albania
> > > Czecholovakia
> > > Yugoslavia
> > > East Germany
>
> > Another example of an uneducated hick spouting stuff about which he
> > knows nothing.
>
> The Soviets were atheists, you fucking idiot.
Some of them were.
Quite a lot of Australians, New Zealanders, French, Dutch, Danes,
Swedes and Canadians are atheists also.
They are (in the vast majority) not trying to bring about a
totalitarian state.
Mark.
Joe Bruno
wrote:
> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
>
> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
>
> One of the big interests on the part of socalled smart people is
> Religion-not their admiration, but rather their disdain, contempt and
> in some cases, hatred for it. In fact, it’s kinda seen as a badge of
> honor, if you’re supposedly smart, to be a non-believer.
>
> In recent years, thanks to the efforts of Christopher Hitchens,
> Richard Dawkins and others, Atheism seems to have made something of a
> comeback. Books, radio and tv interviews, and in some cases, even
> publicly held debates against believers have been mounted by the
> Unfaithful.
>
> Much of these debates I find to be boring, but the one debate, which
> is easily accessible on YouTube, made me take pause. It was held at
> King’s College in NYC, and had on the pro-religion side Dinesh
> D’Souza; and on the anti-religion side, Christopher Hitchens. Both had
> put out books arguing for their side around that time.
>
> I have to say, that while I enjoy much of what Hitchens has to say, he
> got pawned by D’Souza in this debate. When D’Souza mentioned all the
> atrocities done in the name of Atheism, Hitchens tried to backpeddle
> from his strident advocacy of Atheism; when he tried to bully D’Souza
> by hogging the mike, D’Souza rightly noted that the Atheist position
> is to basically try to dominate the public square and the terms of
> debate.
>
> For me, it’s a no-brainer-anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who tries to make
> he case that Religion is a net negative for Humanity and that Atheism
> is a better choice, I have but one question:
>
> What has Atheism EVER done for Humanity, in the positive?
>
> the Civil Rights Movement was started and seen through to its end in
> one case and success in the other, by the religious community, not the
> atheist one.
>
> abolished in the UK; where were the Atheists?
>
> on that Pettis Bridge on Bloody Sunday?
>
> Was it Atheists who stood with the Solidarity Movement in Poland
> against the Soviet Union? As I recall, it was a religious Man, Pope
> John Paul the Great, who did that.
>
> Hitchens likes to kick dirt on Mother Theresa, but I don’t recall him
> pulling up stakes to help lepers in Calcutta. Or any other Atheist for
> that matter.
>
> Let me be frank. Atheists, taken as a group, have NEVER stood up to be
> counted when it mattered the most. It’s easy to talk smack from the
> comfort of your cushy jobs and comfy homes, but when it comes time to
> the showdown, Atheists have a marked track record for not showing up.
>
> So, on the Eve of Jesus Christ’s birth (PBUH), I call out the Atheists-
> what has your kind ever done for Humanity? Seems to me all you’ve ever
> done, aside from basically being freeloaders on the freedoms and
> achievements of believing folk, is destroy lives. Atheism, in
> aggregate, amounts to desolation, pain and death.
>
>
> Now adjourn your heretical asses…
>
> The Obsidian
Hitler's Nazis claimed to be Catholic, but they persecuted every
religion in Germany:Christian,Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses,etc.They also
said Hitler was more important than Christ. I'd say that makes them
atheists.
JayPee Vee
I'd say that you're an idiot.
Moooon Unit
> Moooon Unit wrote:
>> Nonsense. Humans didn't legislate the law of gravity; they discovered
>> it. It already existed.
> Gravity is not a law.
The physics experts with their Ph.D.s say otherwise, lamebrain.
>>> Nature did not leave a book of laws laying around somewhere....
>> The laws are "written" in the world around us,
> [insult deleted]
Wrong, asshole.
>>> I think it's time to start shooting the Atheists.
>> Forwarded to police. It's time you started serving your jail time after
>> posting multiple death threats to Usenet over the past few days, kook.
> Shoot the all pigs first...then the atheist.
Forwarded also. Tsk, tsk. Plotting to kill police officers is something
they're particularly liable to frown upon.
> I think I know where all the laws of nature are at...they are in the Moooooon.
Indeed they are, and in every other particle out there, and in the very
vacuum itself of which those particles are just excited states.
> Laws of Nature is science fiction.
No, they are science fact. You spontaneously growing a brain would be
science fiction, kook.
Ken
> Hitler's Nazis claimed to be Catholic, but they persecuted every
> religion in Germany:Christian,Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses,etc.They also
> said Hitler was more important than Christ. I'd say that makes them
> atheists.
If anything, they were closet Satanists. Big believers in the occult,
and believers in, but negative towards, Christ.
Richo
> On Apr 21, 5:58 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
>
> > What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
> Hitler's Nazis claimed to be Catholic, but they persecuted every
> religion in Germany:Christian,Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses,etc.
They attacked/jailed/killed their political opponents no matter what
faith they were.
20th century Fascism was a right wing Catholic movement.
>They also
> said Hitler was more important than Christ.
"They" did did they?
All of them said that or just 1 or 2 of them?
> I'd say that makes them
> atheists.
You can say anything - it doesnt make it true or sensible.
Mark.
Joe Bruno
>
> - Show quoted text -
Of course you would, but it doesn't matter.
Father Haskell
>
> - Show quoted text -
They said Hitler was more important than *Rod*, not god.
fasgnadh
"Inventor of Penicillin, Alexander Fleming was Catholic."
Atheists are dumber than pigshit! B^D
"Sir Alexander Fleming ...best-known achievements are the
discovery of the enzyme lysozyme in 1923 and the antibiotic
substance penicillin from the fungus Penicillium notatum
in 1928, for which he shared the Nobel Prize in Physiology
or Medicine in 1945 with Howard Walter Florey and Ernst
Boris Chain.
In 1999, Time Magazine named Fleming one of the 100 Most Important
People of the 20th Century for his discovery of penicillin, and stated;
"It was a discovery that would change the course of history. The active
ingredient in that mold, which Fleming named penicillin, turned out to
be an infection-fighting agent of enormous potency. When it was finally
recognized for what it was—the most efficacious life-saving drug in the
world—penicillin would alter forever the treatment of bacterial
infections. By the middle of the century, Fleming's discovery had
spawned a huge pharmaceutical industry, churning out synthetic
penicillins that would conquer some of mankind's most ancient scourges,
including syphilis, gangrene and tuberculosis"."
Where would you atheists be without the great theist scientists?
Full of putrefication and puss, just like now, but without antibiotics!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAA!
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> cloud-reamer denies the HISTORICAL REALITY of 20th century atheism: B^D
>>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>>> Sound of Trumpet wrote:
>>>>> http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-ever-done-for-anybody/
>>>> Given the world an unmistakable lesson in what happens when atheism
>>>> takes power and spawns a handful of the most oppressive tyrannies the
>>>> world has ever seen, the atheist states;
>>>> the Union of Savage Slaughter and Repression (USSR), Mao's Great
>>>> Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution, Pol Pots Cambodian Genocide.
>>>>
>>>> # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
>>>> #
>>>> # "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
>>>> # by a government, typically by active suppression of
>>>> # religious freedom and practice."
>>>> # - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
>>>> # Characteristics and Consequences,
>>>> # David Kowalewski,
>>>> # Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
>>>> #
>>>> #
>>>> # "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia’s Buddhist religion:
>>>> # monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
>>>> # Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
>>>> # other religious sentiments were often killed.
>>>> # ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
>>>> # and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
>>>> # and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
>>>> # starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
>>>> # prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
>>>> # instead of the family.
>>>> #
>>>> # About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
>>>> # were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot’s regime."
>>>> # - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
>>>> #
>>>> # The Cambodian Genocide:
>>>> http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> #
>>>> # "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
>>>> # regarded by the regime as social parasites,
>>>> # were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
>>>> # Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
>>>> # destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
>>>> # Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
>>>> # rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
>>>> # or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
>>>> # were often killed.
>>>> #
>>>> # The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
>>>> # persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
>>>> # Phnom Penh was completely razed.
>>>> #
>>>> # The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
>>>> # regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
>>>> # Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
>>>> # - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
>>>> #
>>>> # "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
>>>> # because of their religion."
>>>> #
>>>> http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
>>>>
>>>> #
>>>> #
>>>> # "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
>>>> # - Daniel Peris,
>>>> # "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
>>>> # Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
>>>> #
>>>> #
>>>> # "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
>>>> # countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
>>>> # Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
>>>> # Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
>>>> # promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
>>>> # - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
>>>> # Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
>>>> #
>>>> # In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
>>>> # intrinsic part of communist ideology.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I mean, here in the USA, it’s a documented fact that both Slavery and
>>>>> the Civil Rights Movement was started and seen through to its end in
>>>>> one case and success in the other, by the religious community, not the
>>>>> atheist one.
>>>>
>>>> Martin Luther King played a central role and his prophetic vision
>>>> continues to unfold.
>>>>
>>>>> Wilburforce, a devout Man, was the driving force in getting Slavery
>>>>> abolished in the UK; where were the Atheists?
>>>>
>>>> History shows that religion has played the central role in inspiring,
>>>> creating and sustaining the great and enduring world civilisations.
>>>>
>>>> But every atheist state has been a totalitarian tyranny! 8^o
>>>>
>>>> The conclusion is obvious.
>>>>
>>>>> When Black folks were getting hosed, and dogs set on them, and being
>>>>> blown up in churches, etc et al, where were Atheists? Where were they
>>>>> on that Pettis Bridge on Bloody Sunday?
>>>>>
>>>>> Was it Atheists who stood with the Solidarity Movement in Poland
>>>>> against the Soviet Union? As I recall, it was a religious Man, Pope
>>>>> John Paul the Great, who did that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hitchens likes to kick dirt on Mother Theresa, but I don’t recall him
>>>>> pulling up stakes to help lepers in Calcutta. Or any other Atheist for
>>>>> that matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me be frank. Atheists, taken as a group, have NEVER stood up to be
>>>>> counted when it mattered the most. It’s easy to talk smack from the
>>>>> comfort of your cushy jobs and comfy homes, but when it comes time to
>>>>> the showdown, Atheists have a marked track record for not showing up.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, on the Eve of Jesus Christ’s birth (PBUH), I call out the Atheists-
>>>>> what has your kind ever done for Humanity? Seems to me all you’ve ever
>>>>> done, aside from basically being freeloaders on the freedoms and
>>>>> achievements of believing folk, is destroy lives. Atheism, in
>>>>> aggregate, amounts to desolation, pain and death.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you disagree, holla back.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now adjourn your heretical asses…
>>>>>
>>>>> The Obsidian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> An unanswerable challenge to atheists, based on the facts of history.
>>>
>>> He has merely cherry picked events
>>
>> all proving the point that EVERY atheist STATE, led by atheists (Lenin,
>> Mao Pol Pot) implementing the forced atheist indoctrination of children
>> and a range of anti-theist policies.
>>
>> Apart from the atheist regimes of the 20th century, atheism has produced
>> nothing of significance in ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY!
>>
>> Religion, on the other hand, has inspired great and enduring
>> civilisations bringing untold benefits to mankind.
>
> Such as Ancient Egypt?
Well, I can see why that is the first one that comes to mind for
atheists, because you share with the Egyptians the practice of
Mummifying your deceased leaders:
#
# If you're an atheist who managed to survive the murderous atheist
# tyrants who killed over 70,000,000 people, go have a look and a laugh
# at how they mummify their dead leaders..
#
# Happy "Dead Atheist in a Box Day!" B^D
#
# http://lisawallerrogers.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/maos-coffin.jpg
#
# And then all the atheist sheep pass by, pretending to be mournful!!!
#
# Priceless!
#
# There are no hypocrites like atheist hypocrites! B^D
#
#
# Oh look, another mummified materialist!
#
# Happy "Dead Atheist Tyrant in a Box Day"!
#
# http://www.osaarchivum.org/galeria/05031953/sect03/pic01b.html
#
# http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2007-07/lenin-corpse.jpg
#
# "More people have seen Lenin’s mummy than any other mummy in history.
# It’s a tourist attraction, a cultural artifact, and as you’ll see,
# a political gimmick.
#
# Lenin’s tomb in Moscow’s Red Square is the best-known landmark
# in the Soviet Union, as well as the spiritual center of Soviet
# political ideology. Some 150 million people have visited the
# mausoleum since it was first built … There are always long lines,
# but you should expect to be descending the gloomy stairs into
# the tomb within 20-30 minutes. Without stopping, you walk
# around three sides of the glass case in which Lenin lies,
# stubbly and ashen-faced, wearing a jacket and a polka-dot tie."
# – Travel Guide to the Soviet Union
#
# What a thrill for all the corpse-worshipping atheist zombies! B^D
#
# Other, saner, Russians, having a joke and a slice of
# DEAD ATHEIST TYRANT! B^D
#
# http://www.dlisted.com/files/caption0807_1.jpg
#
The only time in all of human history that atheists actually
seized power, briefly and with disastrous consequences, and
all that is left of the ZENITH of their feeble accomplishemnts
is people mocking them to buggery!!!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHA
#
# It's not just an isolated incident, there were lots of atheists in
# box's and lots of people REJOICING they were dead, because of the
# 70,000,000 people those atheists had put in boxes! B^[
#
# No one would have been happy to have those atheist bastards
# resurrected!
> Great and enduring, yes.
No, actually.. ancient Egyptian culture is a museum relic, it
was superseeded by a far more dazzling and progressive civilisation,
Islam.
But we can see why you are drawn to it.. it's heirarchical and
undemocratic, like every atheist regime:
> But also an absolute monarchy that had the people hauling
> around huge blocks of rock to build monuments to itself,
http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2009/09/Mao-Statue-1.jpg
http://media.nowpublic.net/images//3d/0/3d079e6f52746bc9e9aa5367cb992aae.jpg
http://web.mit.edu/x_x/www/uploaded_images/CIMG0647-749954.JPG
> and to empower multiple temples for "Gods" that would
> shock our churches today,
> and have them sending armies of
> missionaries to convert the rock hauling heathens to
> the "one true" God.
http://www.thearchetypalconnection.com/images/RedGuardsLow.JPG
> But, it did last
> for about 5,000 years.
Oh wow, that's way longer than the atheist shitholes...
they only lasted for a few decades before massively
imploding.
So, bottom line, atheism can't even compare with the WORST
most ancient and PRIMITIVE civilization you could dredge up...
It clearly PALLS by comparison with the modern, progressive,
free, democratic, scientifically enhanced MAJORITY RELIGIOUS
societies like the USA, Europe, Australie, or even India, Indonesia,
etc...
> Skeptical inquiry,
Oh you mean like these MAJOR SCIENTIFIC THINKERS:
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
There can never be any real opposition between religion and science.
Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the
religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if
all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance
and harmony.
- Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics
"Where is Science Going" 1918
"Something unknown is doing we don't know what"
-Sir Arthur Eddington
Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can
soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not
possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the
wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism.
- 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911
Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of
the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as
well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces
worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the
facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost
beyond question." (2)
George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in
the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the
complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use
the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological
status of the word." (3)
Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it
quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be
some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the
explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something
instead of nothing." (6)
John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards,
a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the
Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could
never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances
indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)
George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the
thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather,
Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)
Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or
Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present
state of scientific theory." (9)
Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique
event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very
delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to
permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say
'supernatural') plan." (10)
Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe
has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)
Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty
of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very
tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am
sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)
Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by
our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the
divine." (13)
Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has
lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad
dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to
conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he
is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for
centuries." (14)
Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall… be able to
take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and
the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the
ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of
God." (15)
Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my
career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced
atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be
writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-
Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are
straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand
them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable
logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since
has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The
Physics Of Christianity.
Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is
described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created
it."(17)
Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the
existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and
refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie
evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that
requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one....
Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the
teleological or design argument." (18)
Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe,
in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but
our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)
Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no
question but that a God will always be needed." (20)
Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe,
however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial
conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)
Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981
Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the
marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how.
The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God
in the universe and in my own life." (22)
Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and
director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the
University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes
in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to
myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little
corner of God's plan." (23)
Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to
understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a
superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to
comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)
Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in
Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I
can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100
billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed
and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would
contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that
the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out
of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to
that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may
extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be
entirely unique." (25)
"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a
little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the
ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It
does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the
child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly
suspects." - Albert Einstein
"The statistical probability that organic structures and the most
precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be
generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry
I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28
"The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a
knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge,
and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off
even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a
chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems
unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived --
you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies
(noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide
University)
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids
was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous
scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was
based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous
astronomical observations,
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were believers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
> which atheism embraces and religion abhors,
> has resulted in modern medicine and science.
> Try living without antibiotics.
"Inventor of Penicillin, Alexander Fleming was Catholic." B^D
Thry living without THEIST SCIENTISTS, you moron! B^D
> " Islamic nations are producing "great and enduring" civilizations,
Sure, try living without hospitals, surgical instruments,
algebra, algorithms, chemistry, or doing modern finance
with ROMAN NUMERALS.. you moron!
and don't forget the Lute (el Oud) and the Taj Mahal....
All we got from ATHEIST TYRANNIES was a pile of 70,000,000 dead! 8^o
> enabled by oil wealth, and dedicated to imposing
> themselves on other nations through force,
> terrorism, and war. The practice of gender slavery is a
> notable achievement
Only in the eyes of the atheist regimes, the USSR, MAoist China,
which revived it in the MODREN era, after the Christian reformer
Wilberforce ended it in England... B^p
> of the Islamic "flavor" of religion.
Without them you would be trying to run global finance with Roman
Numerals.. B^D
In other words, you wouldn't have modern economics.
> Only the fruits of atheism will decide the issue,
You haven't been abele to list a SINGLE ONE!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHA
What a JOKE! B^D
>> So we all take your point that atheism, at worst gives birth to
>> totalitarian tyrannies.. but at best is insignificant, useless and
>> ineffectual, as you atheists constantly demonstrate.
>>
>> As you now agree that atheism has declined from a huge, but depraved,
>> global influence in the 20th century.. to a single, vapid non belief
>> in something.. then it's days are over! B^]
>>
>> > and ignored the fact that Atheism is an ideal,
>>
>> Clearly one that NONE of the real atheists in history can reach..
>>
>> and as they show, attempting to establish the Atheist Utopian
>> Fantasy, was a catastrophic failure, killing over 70,000,000
>> people... and must never be allowed to happen again.
>>
>> Thus, Athesim is finished! If it is just one feeble non belief in
>> sumpthin or other.. then it is empty, and all the NGs websites and
>> books are a complete waste of time.
>>
>> Critique of fundamentalism clearly does not require atheism..
>> it has NOTHING to do with science or evolution or improving the world.
>>
>> It is completely DEFUNCT
>>
>>
>>> not an organization. We are defined merely by your existence, nothing
>>> more.
>>
>> But that's a lie, you prosletyse your beliefs:
>>
>>
>> http://www.thearrogantatheist.com/mensnogod.html
>>
>> You raise money, through your ORGANISTAIONS, and put your
>> UNPROVEN BELIEFS AND OPINIONS on buses!!! B^D
>>
>> And then when you are asked for PROOF, you have none, and so
>> you automatically invoke your Protective Shield...
>>
>> http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
>>
>>
>>
>> # http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7842769.stm
>> #
>> # An atheist UK bus campaign which uses the slogan
>> # "There's probably no God, So Don't Worry, Be Happy"
>> # has been found by the Advertising Standards Authority
>> # to be OPINIONS which cannot be objectively substantiated!
>> #
>> # BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA
>> #
>> # "the ASA ruled the adverts were an expression of the advertiser's
>> # opinion and that the claims in it were not capable of objective
>> # substantiation."
>> #
>> # BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!
>> #
>> # It's just as I said.. Atheists have BELIEFS, they put
>> # them on bus signs!
>> #
>> # And they CAN'T PROVE THEM!
>> #
>> # BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!
>> #
>> # PRICELESS!
>>
>>
>>> To complain that Atheists did nothing in Poland in the 80s is to also
>>> say that those that don't believe in UFOs didn't do anything either.
>>
>>
>> Look, it's simple, atheists have never produced even a decent democracy,
>> let alone a great and enduring civilisation! B^D
>>
>> EVERY atheist regime has been a totalitarian shithole and a catascrophic
>> failure, and they killed over 70,000,000 people in just 7 decades.
>>
>> No wonder they try, when confronted with the HORRIFIC HISTORY of atheim
>> in the last century, to pretend that atheism is now just a useless
>> one idea ideology for people too supine, facile and stupid to find a
>> decent worldview and DO SOMETHING useful! B^D
>>
>>> Duh.
>>
>> How would you describe the historical reality of atheism,
>> in particular it's catastrophic collapse in influence since it's heyday,
>> under the most influential atheists in history, Lenin, Mao, Stalin and
>> Pol Pot?
>>
>>> Poor reasoning that isn't rational to start with.
>>
>> Perhaps you could take up something more productive and useful then..
>>
>> Like crocheting doilies.. or herding cats...
>>
>>>> Well done.
>>>>
>>>> You will be attacked and vilified, but not met in rational debate.
>>>>
>>
>> Time for you to sign off, Bozo;
>>
>>> Another uneducated hick who can't tell the difference between
>>> secularism and Atheism.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Michael Grosberg
> Hitler's Nazis claimed to be Catholic, but they persecuted every
> religion in Germany:Christian,Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses,etc.They also
> said Hitler was more important than Christ. I'd say that makes them
> atheists.
Nope, only a disbelief in god would make them atheists. Organized
religion and belief are not the same. You could hate religion and
still believe in God. The nazis persecuted Jews on a racial basis, and
catholics mainly because they had a competing power structure. As for
the matter of belief itself, they didn't really care one way or the
other. Hitler is said to have believed in some sort of personal,
warped version of Christianity, with an Arian Christ and without all
those "Jewish"-tinged ideas such as turning the other cheek.
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> Uncle Vic wrote:
>>> One fine day in alt.atheism, Joe Bruno <joeb...@usa.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Non-sequitur. Communism is a political stance, not a religious one.
>>
>> In the theory espoused by some tiny sub groups of aout-of-touch atheist
>> idealists, but not in reality as the most influential atheists in
>> history, Lenin, Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot, demonstrated:
>>
>>
>> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
>> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>>
>>
>> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
>> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>>
>>
>> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
>> - Lenin
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>>
>> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>>
>>
>> All the ones responsible for the 70,000,000 deaths in the USSR, Maoist
>> China and Pol Pots Cambodia were.
>
> I notice that your god didn't do squat to stop the killings.
If God removed your freedom to choose you would not be a human,
but a mere dull, witless automaton.. in your case, no one would
notice a difference, but for other people their Free Will is
essential to being human.
> That's some omniscient being you worship.
I'm an agnostic, and you are a fool who blames the God you claim
not to believe in for allowing atheist crimes against humanity.
At least you accept they happened, (your fellow atheists will
be pissed at you for such unusual honesty! B^) .. but it is
ludicrous for you to blame God for giving you the freedom and
responsibility for your actions, just because you make dumb
atheist CHOICES;
http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
What is really amusing is that you have no conception
whatsoever of Free Will, and what it implies for human choices;
http://blogs.setonhill.edu/MadelynGillespie/Magic%208%20ball.gif
> JohnN
>> Man, you morons are transparent.
B^D
Syd M.
> > wrote:
>
> >> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
> > Katherine Hepburn, Jody Foster, George Carlin, Kevin Bacon, Angelina Jolie,
> > Gene Wilder, Daniel Radcliffe, etc.
>
> Actors and musicians, all of whose talents have NOTHING To Do WITH ATHEISM.
>
> None of it was done DUE to atheism
That's right, Failednuts... Just like Stalin's atheism had NOTHING TO
DO WITH HIS ACTIONS.
PDW
Syd M.
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:01:56 -0700 (PDT), Father Haskell
>
> <fatherhask...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 21, 8:58 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
> >wrote:
> >>http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/what-have-atheists-e...
>
> >> What Have Atheists Ever Done For Anybody???
>
> >and other assorted equivalent monsters living under the bed.
>
> But basically atheist have stripped the Church of much of it's former
> power.BTW socialist and communism are belief system, very similar to
> religion. The war between communist and socialist are religious wars.
Wrong.
> Atheist on the other hand believe in the rights of individuals to be
> left alone by religions.
At least you got something right.
PDW
Syd M.
>
> >> On Apr 21, 6:49 am, clouddreamer <Reuse.Recy...@Reduce.now> wrote:
> >>> Joe Bruno wrote:
> >>>> What have atheists done for humanity?
> >>>> Let me count:
> >>>> The USSR:
> >>>> 1,KGB repression
> >>>> 2,gulags
> >>>> 3.Russian civil war(1917-22)Millions dead from wounds and starvation
> >>>> 4.Occupation of Eastern Europe and suppression of human rights
> >>>> Poland
> >>>> Romania
> >>>> Hungary
> >>>> Albania
> >>>> Czecholovakia
> >>>> Yugoslavia
> >>>> East Germany
> >>> Another example of an uneducated hick spouting stuff about which he
> >>> knows nothing.
> >> The Soviets were atheists, you fucking idiot.
>
>
> The entire leadership and ruling party structure were atheist,
> Lenin Mao Stalin Pol Pot and EVERY Central Committee member
> were atheist tyrants
No matter how many times you repeat this lie, it's still a lie.
PDW
Joe Bruno
> One fine day in alt.atheism, Joe Bruno <joebr...@usa.com> wrote:
>
>
> you.
If I called you "stupid", that would be a gross overestimation of your
intellect.