Teacher Fired Over Infertility Treatments

[Mitchell Holman]

Teacher Fired Over Infertility Treatments
April 26, 2012

A teacher at a Catholic school in Indiana is suing the
diocese where she worked after being fired because the
in vitro fertilization treatments she received were
considered against church teachings.

Emily Herx, a former English teacher at St. Vincent de
Paul School in Fort Wayne, filed a federal lawsuit
against the school and the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South
Bend. She says in the suit filed Friday that she was
discriminated against in 2011 after the school's pastor
found out that she had begun treatments with a fertility
doctor, according to the complaint.

Herx says the school's priest called her a "grave,
immoral sinner" and told her she should have kept mum
about her fertility treatments because some things are
"better left between the individual and God," the
complaint said.

"I didn't think I was doing anything wrong," Herx told
CNN on Thursday. "I had never had any complaints about
me as a teacher."

The diocese responded, saying it "views the core issue
raised in this lawsuit as a challenge to the diocese's
right, as a religious employer, to make religious based
decisions consistent with its religious standards on an
impartial basis."

In its statement, diocese officials said that "the church
promotes treatment of infertility through means that respect
the right to life, the unity of marriage, and procreation
brought about as the fruit of the conjugal act. There are
other infertility treatments, such as in vitro fertilization,
which are not morally licit according to Catholic teaching."

Herx said she underwent her first in vitro fertilization
treatment in March 2010, and immediately told her supervisor,
the school's principal. "The first time she was made aware
that my husband and I had to go through fertility treatments,
she said, 'You are in my prayers,' " Herx said. "To me, that
was support."

http://tinyurl.com/6n4ejc8

[elizabeth]

The bint has no case. She knew the catlick teaching on IVF. And
since there is plenty of evidence of a high rate of serious birth
defects associated with all methods of fertility Tx, in this case, I
agree with the church. There is no shortage of children to adopt, and
those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are selfish
beyond all measure. FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
womb, it's for a good reason.

[harry k]

Now _there_ is a fine example of religious thought and caring. Glad I
got out of the church where such people proliferate.

Harry K

[Patrick]

"harry k" <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d27a5b76-33bb-4868...@wp3g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

+ And don't you dare come begging back.

[Dino]

Wow!!

What the true misogynist you are.

[Mitchell Holman]

elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in news:5335c78c-0999-4e60-
b93c-93d...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:

And Catholics wonder why their church is fading away.....

[Brian E. Clark]

In article <5335c78c-0999-4e60-b93c-93df44177714
@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, elizabet...@gmail.com
says...

> FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
> womb, it's for a good reason.

So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
a faulty appendix for a reason?

--
-----------
Brian E. Clark

[Brian E. Clark]

In article <MPG.2a29ca41e...@news.eternal-
september.org>, brian...@newsgroup.reply.only says...

> So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
> sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
> a faulty appendix for a reason?

[Note: this wasn't aimed at Elizabeth, but at lurker who
says thinks alarmingly similar to Elizabeth's earlier
post.]

[elizabeth]

On May 25, 3:00 pm, Brian E. Clark <brianecl...@newsgroup.reply.only>
wrote:
> In article <MPG.2a29ca41ecb8331998b...@news.eternal-
> september.org>, brianecl...@newsgroup.reply.only says...

>
> > So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
> > sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
> > a faulty appendix for a reason?
>
> [Note: this wasn't aimed at Elizabeth, but at lurker who
> says thinks alarmingly similar to Elizabeth's earlier
> post.]
>
> --
> -----------
> Brian E. Clark

How long did it take you to think that up
No woman ever died from NOT having a child, and there is a significant
morbidity and mortality rate to AI for the woman.

And since overpopulation is the single biggest problem facing our
species, what is your point?

[elizabeth]

You poor thing, did you hurt yourself jumping to that conclusion?

I don't go to church. But the catlicks can't get everything wrong,
and in this case, they are right, but for the wrong reasons.

Assisted fertility is a complete rip off, it results in a high % of
babies with serious birth defects, and it is used by people so
insanely convinced that their flawed dna needs replicating that they
will spend thousands, like Octomom, in an attempt to make themselves
feel like their lives are meaningful, by breeding.

Fact is, it's not your genes that get a legacy, it's your memes.

[Mitchell Holman]

elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in news:8499e8cc-0648-4e40-
995d-1b8...@pr3g2000pbb.googlegroups.com:

> On May 25, 3:00 pm, Brian E. Clark <brianecl...@newsgroup.reply.only>
> wrote:
>> In article <MPG.2a29ca41ecb8331998b...@news.eternal-
>> september.org>, brianecl...@newsgroup.reply.only says...
>>
>> > So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
>> > sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
>> > a faulty appendix for a reason?
>>
>> [Note: this wasn't aimed at Elizabeth, but at lurker who
>> says thinks alarmingly similar to Elizabeth's earlier
>> post.]
>>
>> --
>> -----------
>> Brian E. Clark
>
> How long did it take you to think that up
> No woman ever died from NOT having a child,

Well, there was Anne Boleyn............

[Mitchell Holman]

elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in news:cb9e5d24-fd5c-4103-
83c3-a83...@h10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:

That explains why Americans are spending thousands
of dollars and getting on waiting lists to adopt children
in foriegn countries. Right.


an

> d
>> > those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are
selfish
>> > beyond all measure. �FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
>> > womb, it's for a good reason.
>>
>> Now _there_ is a fine example of religious thought and caring. �Glad I
>> got out of the church where such people proliferate.
>>
>> Harry K
>
> You poor thing, did you hurt yourself jumping to that conclusion?
>
> I don't go to church. But the catlicks can't get everything wrong,
> and in this case, they are right, but for the wrong reasons.
>
> Assisted fertility is a complete rip off, it results in a high % of
> babies with serious birth defects,

Proof?

> and it is used by people so
> insanely convinced that their flawed dna needs replicating that they
> will spend thousands, like Octomom, in an attempt to make themselves
> feel like their lives are meaningful, by breeding.

After 13 miscarriages we went into "assisted
fertility". Our resulting daughter is now studying
to be veterinarian. Not meaningful, you say?

What a lonely, bitter person you must be.

[elizabeth]

On May 25, 7:02 pm, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote in news:cb9e5d24-fd5c-4103-
> 83c3-a83354dcf...@h10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:

>     That explains why Americans are spending thousands
> of dollars and getting on waiting lists to adopt children
> in foriegn countries. Right.

There are hundreds of thousands of children in the usa right now who
need homes. But only healthy white infants are in demand. Some
people prefer to buy foreign children, the way some people will buy
puppies from a puppy mill instead of going to a shelter. People spend
a lot of money on stupid things. Like Octomom.

> > d
> >> > those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are
> selfish
> >> > beyond all measure. FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
> >> > womb, it's for a good reason.
>
> >> Now _there_ is a fine example of religious thought and caring. Glad I
> >> got out of the church where such people proliferate.
>
> >> Harry K
>
> > You poor thing, did you hurt yourself jumping to that conclusion?
>
> > I don't go to church.  But the catlicks can't get everything wrong,
> > and in this case, they are right, but for the wrong reasons.
>
> > Assisted fertility is a complete rip off, it results in a high % of
> > babies with serious birth defects,
>
>      Proof?

Google it yourself. It's so mainstream it was even on Yahoo
newsfeed. And you might want to do a bit of research on the clinics
and how much money they are making. Remember it was a doctor who
voluntarily got Octomom her brood.
Apparently the biggest problem is the method where they use force to
make the sperm penetrate the ova, they actually drill a hole. It's
thought that such defective sperm are the main reason for the increase
in birth defects.

Because multiparity is often a result of AI, and because this
invariably results in low birth weight, and a higher level of
premature birth. This is all covered in mainstream medical sources,
the dumbed down versions of health sites, etc.

> > and it is used by people so
> > insanely convinced that their flawed dna needs replicating that they
> > will spend thousands, like Octomom, in an attempt to make themselves
> > feel like their lives are meaningful, by breeding.
>
>      After 13 miscarriages we went into "assisted
> fertility". Our resulting daughter is now studying
> to be veterinarian. Not meaningful, you say?

So what? So you had the money to keep playing god .. . who cares?
But personally, jeez, what kind of demented, obsessed bint would
choose to miscarry over a dozen times? That's pretty twisted, any way
you look at it. And you could have adopted a few dozen children who
very well have had a chance at a good education, but of course, since
they never got out of foster care, probably never had a chance to go
to college.

But don't expect me, or anyone else, to congratulate you because you
raised a child who got into college, plenty of folks do that. Hell,
plenty of single moms who never had to use AI did that .. big deal.
What you want to be rewarded for doing what is considered to be
normal? Sheesh, what is it about breeders that make them so boastful
of choosing to breed at a time when it's clear there simply aren't any
resources left, the climate is getting wonky, etc? Do you even think
about the future you have doomed your child to?

Assuming you are not making this up, and plenty of people online do
make up a lot of lies about their personal lives, what has your story
got to do with this case? The bint really should have kept her mouth
shut. Because if she had kept her medical Tx to herself, how would
her employer even find out? She had to know it was against church
policy.

Are you saying that the diocese did an illegal seizure of her personal
medical files? You'd best figure out why she got busted, but I'd
wager it was because she bragged about it to the wrong people. "Loose
lips sink ships" after all.

>      What a lonely, bitter person you must be.

What a stupid thing to say. Classic projection. What makes you so
defensive?

[R.Measures]

In article <XnsA05ED49A8D607...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

€€ chortle. good one Mitch.
>
>
>
>
>
>

[duke]

Which is a wonderful thing as called for by Christianity. Adopting a child is
not the same as trying to circumvent God.

duke - American American

*****
2012 - end of an error
Vote Republican in 2012
*****

[duke]

And Catholics wonder they people like you think the Church is fading away when
it clearly isn't.

[duke]

No, a ruptured appendix is a definite danger to the human body, and is proper
for correction just like a tumor is.

[W.T.S.]

In article <tif1s7173jaliuanm...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
@cox.net says...

>
> On Fri, 25 May 2012 17:57:07 -0400, Brian E. Clark
> <brian...@newsgroup.reply.only> wrote:
>
> >In article <5335c78c-0999-4e60-b93c-93df44177714
> >@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, elizabet...@gmail.com
> >says...
> >
> >> FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
> >> womb, it's for a good reason.
> >
> >So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
> >sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
> >a faulty appendix for a reason?
>
> No, a ruptured appendix is a definite danger to the human body, and is proper
> for correction just like a tumor is.

A fetus _is_ a tumor, and needs to be aborted, it's the decent, normal
thing to do.
>

Abortion and sterilization, they save the lives, health and futures of
women and men alike!
>
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/print/14481
>
http://www.jennyjerrome.org/
>
http://tinyurl.com/3j3fkch
>
http://www.egalitarian.biz/Plan-B--Remedy-of-a-Lifetime.html
>
http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm
>
Breed like rabbits, live like pigs, die like rats!
>
Modern Christian: Someone who can take time out from
complaining about "welfare mothers popping out babies we
have to feed" to complain about welfare mothers getting
abortions that PREVENT more babies to be raised at public
expense.
>
http://www.imnotsorry.net
>
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17gbnyv0yzhevjpg/original.jpg
>
http://tinyurl.com/7q2ft38

[default]

On Fri, 25 May 2012 08:13:53 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth
<elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>The bint has no case. She knew the catlick teaching on IVF. And
>since there is plenty of evidence of a high rate of serious birth
>defects associated with all methods of fertility Tx, in this case, I
>agree with the church. There is no shortage of children to adopt, and
>those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are selfish
>beyond all measure. FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
>womb, it's for a good reason.

But did she sign a statement of compliance allowing the Catholickers
to monitor, modulate and govern every aspect of her life outside of
her professional duties? And if so, was she given a list of rules to
abide by? And if so, was she allowed some form of redress or self
defense of her actions?

Nearly 100% of catholics practice contraception in spite of the
Church's teachings, but you don't see them excommunicated. Is it fair
to apply their rules in a arbitrary or haphazard manner? Is it
"moral?"

The bishops are bullies who think they write the rule book for their
gods.... and they hate the idea that people have lives of their own.
They need to listen to what people want once in awhile, if they plan
to stay in business.

[Mitchell Holman]

duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in
news:ldf1s7536icuc97lr...@4ax.com:

Fertility treatments are no more "circumventing God"
than getting glasses. Are you a Christian Scientist or
something?

[Mitchell Holman]

duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in
news:fhf1s7llq0in4k0fp...@4ax.com:

Even the Pope admits your Church is dying.

Didn't you get the memo?




Benedict XVI's drive to stop declining church attendance
17 Aug 2011

Even countries like Ireland and Italy, which have been
staunchly Catholic for centuries, have seen sharp drops
in the number of Catholics attending church.

The Roman Catholic Church's reputation has been badly
hit by a string of paedophile priest scandals, as well
as decades of creeping secularisation, in which the
Vatican has dismayed many Catholics with its conservative
views on issues such as women priests, gay marriage,
artificial contraception and abortion.

In Spain, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, the prime minister,
has clashed with the Church over abortion and changed the
law to make it easier for women seeking to terminate
unwanted pregnancies.

Around 80 per cent of Spaniards identify themselves as
Catholics but two-thirds seldom or never attend church.
Less than 50 per cent of Irish go to Mass at least once
a week, compared with 85 per cent two decades ago, with
many Catholics left shocked and angry over the decades-
long cover-up of sexually abusive priests.

In Italy, where more than 95 per cent of people describe
themselves as Catholic, church attendance has fallen to
less than 30 per cent. Catholic churches and chapels in
France are also increasingly empty and cathedrals are
visited more by tourists than by the faithful.

Catholicism is also in decline in the United States,
where 400,000 people left the Church in 2008 alone.
Even in Latin America, the Church has been hit by
sex scandals in countries such as Brazil and Mexico.
http://tinyurl.com/42aqzsr

[Mitchell Holman]

duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in
news:tif1s7173jaliuanm...@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 25 May 2012 17:57:07 -0400, Brian E. Clark
> <brian...@newsgroup.reply.only> wrote:
>
>>In article <5335c78c-0999-4e60-b93c-93df44177714
>>@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, elizabet...@gmail.com
>>says...
>>
>>> FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
>>> womb, it's for a good reason.
>>
>>So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
>>sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
>>a faulty appendix for a reason?
>
> No, a ruptured appendix is a definite danger to the human body, and is
> proper for correction just like a tumor is.

If you get sick is because God wants you to be
sick and you thwarting his will in seeking treatment -
at least according to this elizabeth person.

[elizabeth]

On May 26, 5:42 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote innews:tif1s7173jaliuanm...@4ax.com:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 25 May 2012 17:57:07 -0400, Brian E. Clark
> > <brianecl...@newsgroup.reply.only> wrote:
>
> >>In article <5335c78c-0999-4e60-b93c-93df44177714

> >>@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, elizabethfran...@gmail.com

> >>says...
>
> >>> FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
> >>> womb, it's for a good reason.
>
> >>So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
> >>sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
> >>a faulty appendix for a reason?
>
> > No, a ruptured appendix is a definite danger to the human body, and is
> > proper for correction just like a tumor is.
>
>     If you get sick is because God wants you to be
> sick and you thwarting his will in seeking treatment -
> at least according to this elizabeth person.

And that is proof you don't get it and your knee is jerking rather
than your brain engaged in thinking this out.

If you work for the Christian Scientists, don't expect them to pay for
you to see a doctor, don't you get it?

And have you learned about the Scientologist's theories of medical
care? The point is, if you know an organization is totally whacked
out on medical care, or whatever, DON'T ASSOCIATE WITH THAT
ORGANIZATION IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEIR POLICIES.

[elizabeth]

On May 26, 5:14 am, default wrote:
> On Fri, 25 May 2012 08:13:53 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth
>

> <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >The bint has no case.  She knew the catlick teaching on IVF.  And
> >since there is plenty of evidence of a high rate of serious birth
> >defects associated with all methods of fertility Tx,  in this case, I
> >agree with the church.  There is no shortage of children to adopt, and
> >those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are selfish
> >beyond all measure.  FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
> >womb, it's for a good reason.

You still have to figure out one thing.

> But did she sign a statement of compliance allowing the Catholickers
> to monitor, modulate and govern every aspect of her life outside of
> her professional duties?

So, the real question is, how did they find out? Are you saying that
they do monitor and modulate? And if that is the case, isn't that
also true for any and all employer provided health care?

>  And if so, was she given a list of rules to
> abide by?  And if so, was she allowed some form of redress or self
> defense of her actions?

See above. How did they learn of this? If she willingly offered the
information, and knew (reasonably she should have known) she really
has to stop acting Heishman here.

> Nearly 100% of catholics practice contraception in spite of the
> Church's teachings, but you don't see them excommunicated.

From what I have learned, it's almost impossible to be excommunicated
EVEN IF YOU WANT TO BE! I am not catholic, but I remember a few years
back, I had some friends who wanted the archbishop to officially
excommunicate them, only to find out YOU CAN'T GET KICKED OUT!

Now, that might be a revenue enhancer, the rcc could charge for an
Official Writ of Excommunication, with a nice "diploma" you could hang
on the wall.

>  Is it fair
> to apply their rules in a arbitrary or haphazard manner?  Is it
> "moral?"

That's an excellent reason NOT to work for such a fucked up
organization. But if you choose to work for them, suck it up and
soldier on.

> The bishops are bullies who think they write the rule book for their
> gods.... and they hate the idea that people have lives of their own.
> They need to listen to what people want once in awhile, if they plan
> to stay in business.

Who is forcing catholics to stay in that sort of organization? Hell,
don't you get it? If anyone called those bishops on their bluff, they
would be obligated to kick almost everyone out, and they would never
do that. They would lose whatever influence they have.

But if catholics weren't such hypocritical whores, they would, en
masse, abandon the church. Why don't they?

[harry k]

On May 26, 5:37 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote innews:ldf1s7536icuc97lr...@4ax.com:

>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 25 May 2012 21:02:42 -0500, Mitchell Holman
> > <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>

> >>elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>news:cb9e5d24-fd5c-4103-
> >>83c3-a83354dcf...@h10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:
>

Something is correct. He jusst hasn't been classified by science yet
after he ws found under a rock.

Harry K

[default]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 09:06:59 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth
<elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 26, 5:14 am, default wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 May 2012 08:13:53 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth
>>
>> <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >The bint has no case.  She knew the catlick teaching on IVF.  And
>> >since there is plenty of evidence of a high rate of serious birth
>> >defects associated with all methods of fertility Tx,  in this case, I
>> >agree with the church.  There is no shortage of children to adopt, and
>> >those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are selfish
>> >beyond all measure.  FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
>> >womb, it's for a good reason.
>
>You still have to figure out one thing.

the god of the bishops?

>
>> But did she sign a statement of compliance allowing the Catholickers
>> to monitor, modulate and govern every aspect of her life outside of
>> her professional duties?
>
>So, the real question is, how did they find out? Are you saying that
>they do monitor and modulate? And if that is the case, isn't that
>also true for any and all employer provided health care?
>

Last time I checked infertility was not a life threatening or covered
procedure, so she and her other would be paying out of their own
pocket for an elective procedure. AND even if it was covered - you
mean to say that it was covered under her Catholicker policy and they
didn't already jump all over the insurance provider and allowed it to
be covered?

According to the RCC it is better for a mother to die in childbirth
from hypertension in order to give birth to a brain dead thing, than
it is to abort.

Honest rational people might not agree - but that is what the RCC
"teaches." (their brainwashed lackeys)

>>  And if so, was she given a list of rules to
>> abide by?  And if so, was she allowed some form of redress or self
>> defense of her actions?
>
>See above. How did they learn of this? If she willingly offered the
>information, and knew (reasonably she should have known) she really
>has to stop acting Heishman here.

Should have known? Not likely. Not with all the catholic propaganda
on how hatching out little children to be brainwashed catholic is a
duty to their gods. She would have had to be aware of the fine
print. I went through their indoctrination mill and in-vitro wasn't
covered (but it was new, but not that new).

Easy to miss the tinkle of the triangle - when the whole orchestra is
pushing along the crescendo.

>
>> Nearly 100% of catholics practice contraception in spite of the
>> Church's teachings, but you don't see them excommunicated.
>
>From what I have learned, it's almost impossible to be excommunicated
>EVEN IF YOU WANT TO BE! I am not catholic, but I remember a few years
>back, I had some friends who wanted the archbishop to officially
>excommunicate them, only to find out YOU CAN'T GET KICKED OUT!

That seems to be true and it is hypocritical. After all, to hear
those bozos tell it, excommunication is the most dire punishment they
can mete out.

I would like to be excommunicated - preferably with a certificate
suitable for framing.

Their justification when I inquired? I might have a change of heart
and it is too radical a step. Yet, proclaiming the evils of
Catholicism is an excommunicating offence.

>
>Now, that might be a revenue enhancer, the rcc could charge for an
>Official Writ of Excommunication, with a nice "diploma" you could hang
>on the wall.

Absolutely! They could have my money (within reason, of course).
They could also sell toilet paper imprinted with the catechisms for
all I care.

>
>>  Is it fair
>> to apply their rules in a arbitrary or haphazard manner?  Is it
>> "moral?"
>
>That's an excellent reason NOT to work for such a fucked up
>organization. But if you choose to work for them, suck it up and
>soldier on.

No. She wasn't hired as a priest, deacon, or even usher or choir
master, she was hired to teach. My high school had lay teachers - but
they were never allowed to teach religion - that was the sole
bailiwick of the priests and nuns.

Had she been teaching religion she, presumably, would or might know
how they freak out about in-vitro and would have kept quiet or been
childless.

>
>> The bishops are bullies who think they write the rule book for their
>> gods.... and they hate the idea that people have lives of their own.
>> They need to listen to what people want once in awhile, if they plan
>> to stay in business.
>
>Who is forcing catholics to stay in that sort of organization? Hell,
>don't you get it? If anyone called those bishops on their bluff, they
>would be obligated to kick almost everyone out, and they would never
>do that. They would lose whatever influence they have.
>
>But if catholics weren't such hypocritical whores, they would, en
>masse, abandon the church. Why don't they?

Religion fills a need in weak people. One's choice of a religion is
influenced by one's parents (some 98% of the time). Of the thousands
of religions and sects of religions, there is only ONE TRUE RELIGION -
the one you happen to be inculcated with (of course).

Therefore... it is better to rationalize your way to believe you
belong, whilst at the same time, modifying belief and dogma to suit
your own concept of "what god wants," and by extension what gets you
into heaven. (and bragging rights to some concept of endorsed -
doctrinal- morality)

[Mitchell Holman]

elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:bb26f5b4-5586-4ed4...@nl1g2000pbc.googlegroups.com:

> On May 26, 5:42 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>> duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote

>> innews:tif1s7173jaliuanms2bd8oupkf9cvtjn
> u...@4ax.com:

>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Fri, 25 May 2012 17:57:07 -0400, Brian E. Clark
>> > <brianecl...@newsgroup.reply.only> wrote:
>>
>> >>In article <5335c78c-0999-4e60-b93c-93df44177714
>> >>@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, elizabethfran...@gmail.com
>> >>says...
>>
>> >>> FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
>> >>> womb, it's for a good reason.
>>
>> >>So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
>> >>sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
>> >>a faulty appendix for a reason?
>>
>> > No, a ruptured appendix is a definite danger to the human body, and
>> > is proper for correction just like a tumor is.
>>
>>     If you get sick is because God wants you to be
>> sick and you thwarting his will in seeking treatment -
>> at least according to this elizabeth person.
>
> And that is proof you don't get it and your knee is jerking rather
> than your brain engaged in thinking this out.
>
> If you work for the Christian Scientists, don't expect them to pay for
> you to see a doctor, don't you get it?

How wonderful. All employers can cancel the medical
benefits of all employees just by claiming they are
Christian Scientists - is that what you are claiming?

[harry k]

On May 26, 4:29 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 May 2012 17:57:07 -0400, Brian E. Clark
>

> <brianecl...@newsgroup.reply.only> wrote:
> >In article <5335c78c-0999-4e60-b93c-93df44177714

> >@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, elizabethfran...@gmail.com

> >says...
>
> >> FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
> >> womb, it's for a good reason.
>
> >So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
> >sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
> >a faulty appendix for a reason?
>
> No, a ruptured appendix is a definite danger to the human body, and is proper
> for correction just like a tumor is.
>
> duke - American American
>
> *****
> 2012 - end of an error
> Vote Republican in 2012
> *****

From the start the Catholic stance on birth control, abortion, etc.
has had absoltuely nothing to do with "god's orders". I was, is, and
will remain nothing but the churche's attempt to outbreed the
competition. I wonder just what the priests, bishops, etc. really
think is going one when the number of children being born to good
Catholic families has taken a nose drive over the past 50
years. Do they _really_ think that no rubbers are being used?

Harry K

[harry k]

Let us know what organizations youbelong to. I for one will avoid
them
like the plague.

Harry K

[harry k]

They are...as are all the other variations on the RCC (yes, all
"Christian religions" trace back to the RCC).

Harry K

[Alan Ferris]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 06:27:01 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>> That explains why Americans are spending thousands
>>of dollars and getting on waiting lists to adopt children
>>in foriegn countries. Right.
>
>Which is a wonderful thing as called for by Christianity. Adopting a child is
>not the same as trying to circumvent God.

Really? If it was good why do they leave their own rotting in homes?

"Where is the country of Many found in the world?"
"I never heard of the country of Many."
- duke (Earl J Weber)

[Tronscend]

"harry k" <turnk...@hotmail.com> skrev i melding
news:c637cc3a-40d1-4a8a...@kw17g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...

>They are...as are all the other variations on the RCC (yes, all
>"Christian religions" trace back to the RCC).

Orthodoxixians might want to argue that point.
Perhaps those Coptic guys down in Sudan, too.

[Mitchell Holman]

elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in news:d5f7b49b-716e-40ec-
84ec-7ac...@t2g2000pbl.googlegroups.com:

How many have YOU adopted?

> But only healthy white infants are in demand. Some
> people prefer to buy foreign children, the way some people will buy
> puppies from a puppy mill instead of going to a shelter. People spend
> a lot of money on stupid things. Like Octomom.

Like the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court,
who adopted two children from Panama.

>
>> > d
>> >> > those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are
>> selfish
>> >> > beyond all measure. FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
>> >> > womb, it's for a good reason.
>>
>> >> Now _there_ is a fine example of religious thought and caring. Glad
I
>> >> got out of the church where such people proliferate.
>>
>> >> Harry K
>>
>> > You poor thing, did you hurt yourself jumping to that conclusion?
>>
>> > I don't go to church.  But the catlicks can't get everything wrong,
>> > and in this case, they are right, but for the wrong reasons.
>>
>> > Assisted fertility is a complete rip off, it results in a high % of
>> > babies with serious birth defects,
>>
>>      Proof?
>
> Google it yourself.

Another netcoward, posting claims they cannot prove.

>
>> > and it is used by people so
>> > insanely convinced that their flawed dna needs replicating that they
>> > will spend thousands, like Octomom, in an attempt to make themselves
>> > feel like their lives are meaningful, by breeding.
>>
>>      After 13 miscarriages we went into "assisted
>> fertility". Our resulting daughter is now studying
>> to be veterinarian. Not meaningful, you say?
>
> So what? So you had the money to keep playing god .. . who cares?

Getting fertility treatments is no different
than getting any other medical treatments. Is it
"sinful" to get glasses or knee replacements or
heart valves?

[Paul Duca]

On May 26, 7:27 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 May 2012 21:02:42 -0500, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

> >elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote in news:cb9e5d24-fd5c-4103-
> >83c3-a83354dcf...@h10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:
>

> the only way I can get rid of the out-of-wedlock kids I want to generate.
>
> duke - American American
>

[Paul Duca]

On May 26, 7:29 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 May 2012 17:57:07 -0400, Brian E. Clark
>

> <brianecl...@newsgroup.reply.only> wrote:
> >In article <5335c78c-0999-4e60-b93c-93df44177714

> >@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, elizabethfran...@gmail.com

> >says...
>
> >> FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
> >> womb, it's for a good reason.
>
> >So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
> >sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
> >a faulty appendix for a reason?
>
> No, a ruptured appendix is a definite danger to the human body, and is proper

> for correction just like a tumor is...but if you can't afford to correct either, God meant you to die.
>
> duke - American American
>

[Paul Duca]

On May 25, 1:30 pm, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> "harry k" <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d27a5b76-33bb-4868...@wp3g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

> > agree with the church. There is no shortage of children to adopt, and

> > those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are selfish

> > beyond all measure. FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying

> > womb, it's for a good reason.
>

> Now _there_ is a fine example of religious thought and caring.  Glad I
> got out of the church where such people proliferate.
>

> + And don't you dare come begging back. That's reserved for us Catholics in Heaven.

[Paul Duca]

On May 26, 7:28 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 May 2012 16:25:10 -0500, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

> >elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote in news:5335c78c-0999-4e60-
> >b93c-93df44177...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:

> And Catholics wonder why the Church
> isn't improving their lives in the slightest.
>
> duke - American American
>

[elizabeth]

On May 26, 8:10 pm, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote in news:d5f7b49b-716e-40ec-
> 84ec-7ac614751...@t2g2000pbl.googlegroups.com:

Fertility treatment is different from other medical treatments because
no one ever died from not having a child.
It is similar to cosmetic surgery, another elective, and unnecessary,
treatment for vanity, not medical necessity.

[W.T.S.]

In article <6uf899-...@badass.edu>, rwi...@badass.edu says...
> Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> writes:
>
> >elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in news:5335c78c-0999-4e60-
> >b93c-93d...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:

> >> agree with the church. There is no shortage of children to adopt, and

> >> those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are selfish
> >> beyond all measure. FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
> >> womb, it's for a good reason.
>

> > And Catholics wonder why their church is fading away.....
>

> No, _you're_ fading away - the Catholic Church will still be here after
> you're gone. Unless Christ returns before then... :)
There will always be a Catholic Church, as sick and degenerate as it may
be. It won't have the influence it has now, and people will know it for
what it is. No need to worry about "Christ", "Christ" is a lie.
>
> Terry

[Alan Ferris]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 22:26:26 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth
<elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> � � �Getting fertility treatments is no different

>> than getting any other medical treatments. Is it
>> "sinful" to get glasses or knee replacements or
>> heart valves?
>
>Fertility treatment is different from other medical treatments because
>no one ever died from not having a child.
>It is similar to cosmetic surgery, another elective, and unnecessary,
>treatment for vanity, not medical necessity.

Not quite true. People have committed suicide due to both.

--
Ferrit

()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")

[elizabeth]

On May 27, 1:50 am, Alan Ferris <hairy.fer...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2012 22:26:26 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth
>

People commit suicide for really stupid reasons in a lot of cases.
What it shows is how fucked up they are. Why should a woman kill
herself because she thinks she's ugly or because she can't have
children? Only if she buys into the bullshit that she has no other
value. And if she buys into that stupidity, the world is better off
without her.

[SkyEyes]

Er, no they don't. The Coptic Christians of Egypt are *entirely
separate* from the RCC; they have never been a part of it. Ditto the
Ethiopian Christians. There used to be more denominations that had no
RCC roots, but, well, the Catholic Church killed them off, pretty
much.

Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
BAAWA Knight of the Golden Litterbox
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes nine at cox dot net OR
skyeyes nine at yahoo dot com

[duke]

But making a baby in a dish is.

[duke]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 09:27:43 -0700 (PDT), harry k <turnk...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Harry, harry, harry - so you don't know what ivf is either!!!

[duke]

Yes I did. And it said we are still #1.

[duke]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 07:42:23 -0500, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

>duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in
>news:tif1s7173jaliuanm...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 25 May 2012 17:57:07 -0400, Brian E. Clark
>> <brian...@newsgroup.reply.only> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <5335c78c-0999-4e60-b93c-93df44177714
>>>@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, elizabet...@gmail.com
>>>says...
>>>
>>>> FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
>>>> womb, it's for a good reason.
>>>
>>>So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
>>>sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
>>>a faulty appendix for a reason?
>>
>> No, a ruptured appendix is a definite danger to the human body, and is
>> proper for correction just like a tumor is.

> If you get sick is because God wants you to be
>sick

No, it isn't. That's like saying God wants us to die. He wants us to live, in
the next life.

> and you thwarting his will in seeking treatment -
>at least according to this elizabeth person.

Neither one of you understands.

[duke]

Strawman. You kids are good at that.

[duke]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 10:42:58 -0700 (PDT), harry k <turnk...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Which makes her extremely happy.

[duke]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 10:40:51 -0700 (PDT), harry k <turnk...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On May 26, 4:29 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 May 2012 17:57:07 -0400, Brian E. Clark
>>
>> <brianecl...@newsgroup.reply.only> wrote:
>> >In article <5335c78c-0999-4e60-b93c-93df44177714
>> >@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, elizabethfran...@gmail.com
>> >says...
>>
>> >> FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
>> >> womb, it's for a good reason.
>>
>> >So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
>> >sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
>> >a faulty appendix for a reason?
>>
>> No, a ruptured appendix is a definite danger to the human body, and is proper
>> for correction just like a tumor is.
>>
>> duke - American American
>>
>> *****
>> 2012 - end of an error
>> Vote Republican in 2012
>> *****
>
>From the start the Catholic stance on birth control, abortion, etc.
>has had absoltuely nothing to do with "god's orders".

Oh, and you are the expert on that. Would it surprise you to really find out
that the Catholic Church says what it says BECAUSE it is specifically what God
said?? Yes, it would.

> I was, is, and
>will remain nothing but the churche's attempt to outbreed the
>competition. I wonder just what the priests, bishops, etc. really
>think is going one when the number of children being born to good
>Catholic families has taken a nose drive over the past 50
>years. Do they _really_ think that no rubbers are being used?

That issue, gobbler gonads, is between user and God, not user and Church.

>Harry K

[duke]

On Sat, 26 May 2012 10:47:30 -0700 (PDT), harry k <turnk...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Yes, Jesus founded the RCC in 33AD. It's just that those that fell away
disagreed with something God taught. Heeheehee.

[Paul Duca]

On May 27, 8:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2012 07:40:17 -0500, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

> >duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in

> >news:fhf1s7llq0in4k0fp...@4ax.com:
>
> >> On Fri, 25 May 2012 16:25:10 -0500, Mitchell Holman
> >> <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>

> >>>elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>news:5335c78c-0999-4e60-
> >>>b93c-93df44177...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:
>

> Yes I did.  And it said we are still #1. Non that it improves my existence in the here and now one iota.
>
> duke - American American

[Mitchell Holman]

elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:dda4c8c0-1e73-4dbe...@b5g2000pbm.googlegroups.com:

No one died from being nearsighted either.
Does that mean getting glasses is "sinful"?

> It is similar to cosmetic surgery, another elective, and unnecessary,
> treatment for vanity, not medical necessity.

Do you hate all women or just yourself?

[duke]

Perhaps you don't know what you're talking about or you would have mentioned
something of interest.

[duke]

Yet Jesus started one Church and called it universal.

[Paul Duca]

On May 27, 8:10 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2012 07:42:23 -0500, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

> >duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in

> >news:tif1s7173jaliuanm...@4ax.com:
>
> >> On Fri, 25 May 2012 17:57:07 -0400, Brian E. Clark
> >> <brianecl...@newsgroup.reply.only> wrote:
>
> >>>In article <5335c78c-0999-4e60-b93c-93df44177714

> >>>@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>, elizabethfran...@gmail.com

> >>>says...
>
> >>>> FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
> >>>> womb, it's for a good reason.
>
> >>>So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
> >>>sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
> >>>a faulty appendix for a reason?
>
> >> No, a ruptured appendix is a definite danger to the human body, and is
> >> proper for correction just like a tumor is.
> >    If you get sick is because God wants you to be
> >sick
>
> No, it isn't.  That's like saying God wants us to die.  He wants us to live, in

> the next life...crappier than it is in THIS life it may be.

>
> duke - American American
>

[Ben Kaufman]

On Fri, 25 May 2012 08:13:53 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com>

>The bint has no case. She knew the catlick teaching on IVF. And
>since there is plenty of evidence of a high rate of serious birth
>defects associated with all methods of fertility Tx, in this case, I
>agree with the church. There is no shortage of children to adopt, and
>those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are selfish

>beyond all measure. FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying

>womb, it's for a good reason.

<Raptured!>

[harry k]

On May 27, 5:21 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

From the hate she exudes, I suspect she is both barren and ugly.

Harry K

[harry k]

On May 27, 5:07 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2012 09:27:43 -0700 (PDT), harry k <turnkey4...@hotmail.com>

Care to explain how that idiotic comment follows from what I said? Do
you have a comprehension problem along with all you other problems?

Harry K

[elizabeth]

On May 27, 5:21 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

You sound as stupid as an antiabortnik

> > Fertility treatment is different from other medical treatments because
> > no one ever died from not having a child.
>
>     No one died from being nearsighted either.
> Does that mean getting glasses is "sinful"?

You still don't get it, do you? Now, take your alleged wife. You
claim that bint had 13 miscarriages. I had no idea anything like that
happened when you were nearsighted. And unlike IVF and pregnancy,
wearing glasses is not a medical Tx, it's just wearing lenses over
your eyes. Had you chosen a more appropriate metaphor, ie, getting
surgery to correct nearsightedness, it would still not be comparable,
since there is virtually no morbidity/morality associated with that
type of surgery, unlike the complicated, expensive, and dangerous
complictions to women of the IVF Tx and then of course of pregnancy
and childbirth.

So you wife feels that all those bloody miscarriages, all that poking,
probing, etc of IVF and then pregnancy and childbearing is comparable
to putting on a pair of glasses?

That's even more insane than that antiabortnik claim that pregnancy
and childbirth are a mere "inconvenience"

Let me know when someone dies from putting on a pair of glasses,
hmmmm?

So octomom was just lady who wanted a whole bunch of glasses to wear,
hmmmmm?

>
> > It is similar to cosmetic surgery, another elective, and unnecessary,
> > treatment for vanity, not medical necessity.
>
>     Do you hate all women or just yourself?

No, just your mother for not aborting you.

[Alan Ferris]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 02:15:09 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth
<elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 27, 1:50 am, Alan Ferris <hairy.fer...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 May 2012 22:26:26 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth
>>
>> <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Getting fertility treatments is no different
>> >> than getting any other medical treatments. Is it
>> >> "sinful" to get glasses or knee replacements or
>> >> heart valves?
>>
>> >Fertility treatment is different from other medical treatments because
>> >no one ever died from not having a child.
>> >It is similar to cosmetic surgery, another elective, and unnecessary,
>> >treatment for vanity, not medical necessity.
>>
>> Not quite true.  People have committed suicide due to both.
>>

>People commit suicide for really stupid reasons in a lot of cases.
>What it shows is how fucked up they are. Why should a woman kill
>herself because she thinks she's ugly or because she can't have
>children? Only if she buys into the bullshit that she has no other
>value. And if she buys into that stupidity, the world is better off
>without her.

I am so glad you have not had to suffer as they might have. It is
strange how people who have a physical injury are seen as in need of
care by most people, but be it the brain injured and causing problems
people look down on mental illness and treat them needing less care. I
hope none of your family ever suffer such depression.

[Alan Ferris]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 07:06:34 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:


>> Fertility treatments are no more "circumventing God"
>>than getting glasses. Are you a Christian Scientist or
>>something?
>
>But making a baby in a dish is.

Clearly your god disagrees as your church claims they have to have
received a soul from him.

Also you need to read church teaching, they do not oppose IVF for the
reasons you give, but because they normally fertilise more eggs than
used.

"They lost electrical power in 320AD" - duke (Earl J Weber)

[Alan Ferris]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 07:14:49 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>>From the start the Catholic stance on birth control, abortion, etc.
>>has had absoltuely nothing to do with "god's orders".
>
>Oh, and you are the expert on that. Would it surprise you to really find out
>that the Catholic Church says what it says BECAUSE it is specifically what God
>said?? Yes, it would.

Quote God saying it then. In fact God explains how an abortion should
be carried out. Why would he do that?

"The Bishops elect the Pope - just like I have always said."
- duke (Earl Weber)

[elizabeth]

So, you, like Robert J. Heishman, insist you can know the thoughts,
the innermost feelings, of someone you have never met?

And I must be full of hate because I think that women are more than
just ambulatory wombs, and feel that childbearing is not the only
thing that women are good for?

And you say I hate?

Wow, talk about projection and complete lack of insight ...

[elizabeth]

On May 27, 7:48 am, Alan Ferris <hairy.fer...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2012 02:15:09 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On May 27, 1:50 am, Alan Ferris <hairy.fer...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 26 May 2012 22:26:26 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth
>
> >> <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Getting fertility treatments is no different
> >> >> than getting any other medical treatments. Is it
> >> >> "sinful" to get glasses or knee replacements or
> >> >> heart valves?
>
> >> >Fertility treatment is different from other medical treatments because
> >> >no one ever died from not having a child.
> >> >It is similar to cosmetic surgery, another elective, and unnecessary,
> >> >treatment for vanity, not medical necessity.
>
> >> Not quite true.  People have committed suicide due to both.
>
> >People commit suicide for really stupid reasons in a lot of cases.
> >What it shows is how fucked up they are.  Why should a woman kill
> >herself because she thinks she's ugly or because she can't have
> >children?  Only if she buys into the bullshit that she has no other
> >value.  And if she buys into that stupidity, the world is better off
> >without her.

And another man who insists that all women are good for is breeding.

> I am so glad you have not had to suffer as they might have.

Any suffering those women feel is all self inflicted. Why should a
woman feel badly in any way simply because she can't breed?
Infertility affects both men and women. So, would you also say that
of an infertile man? That they "suffer?"

And why not let the women speak for themselves?
Had MitchtheBitch's wife been on the thread, that would have been one
thing.
But for thebitch to say that infertility Tx is like putting on a pair
of glasses, well ... that's really insane.

I find men who speak for women's experience to be failed abortions at
best.

>  It is
> strange how people who have a physical injury are seen as in need of
> care by most people,

I'm sure there are cases of female infertility caused by accidental
injury, but I'm not sure it's very significant. Female infertility
can be a lot more complicated than male infertility, but most cases
have more than one factor involved. as for the causes of male
infertility, there is far less research. Because men are not defined
by their parenting as much as women are.

I recommend an excellent book, if you can find it, called The Mother
Person, written in the 1970s, an honest look by women at what it means
to be a mother.

>but be it the brain injured and causing problems
> people look down on mental illness and treat them needing less care. I
> hope none of your family ever suffer such depression.

I hope your head gets yanked out of your ass before your case of
rectocranial impaction kills you. So, are you saying infertile women
are insane? What is the connection between mental illness (which has
many causes, btw) and female infertility?>

You asswads sound like antiabortniks, you haven't got a case, so you
have to say, BUT IT'S LIKE _____ the way antiabortniks will yap about
ABORTION IS LIKE SLAVERY .. .yet, opponents of slavery never made the
claim, SLAVERY IS LIKE ABORTION. Do try and stay on topic,
hmmmmmmm?

Infertility is not mental illness, but mental illness can be caused by
pregnancy and childbirth (PPP, PPD)

But I will say that Octomom is mentally ill, but I don't think it was
her original infertility that caused her problems.

[harry k]

On May 27, 5:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2012 07:40:17 -0500, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

> >duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in

> >news:fhf1s7llq0in4k0fp...@4ax.com:
>
> >> On Fri, 25 May 2012 16:25:10 -0500, Mitchell Holman
> >> <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>

> >>>elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>news:5335c78c-0999-4e60-
> >>>b93c-93df44177...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:
>

Actually, you are amongst the "also rans" when compared to membership
in other religions.

Harry K

[HVAC]

On 5/27/2012 10:21 AM, elizabeth wrote:
>
>> Do you hate all women or just yourself?
>
> No, just your mother for not aborting you.

In many cases, I am in favor of retroactive abortion.











--
"OK you cunts, let's see what you can do now" -Hit Girl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjO7kBqTFqo

[elizabeth]

Especially these men in this thread pushing that old line about how
all women are born to breed! Sheesh. That's why the "childfree"
movement got started. I remember a doctor telling me he wouldn't give
me a tubal ligation when I was 25 because he knew I would want
children. It's over 30years later, and because I couldn't take the
pill, and had a contraception failure, I had an abortion, which never
had to happen, if that asshole doctor didn't buy into the idea, common
among the medical professional, taht women were ambulatory wombs, and
a woman who didn't want kids had to be mentally ill ...which is a very
good reason NOT TO BREED ... but really, that Holman fellow .... what
kind of woman would go through 13 miscarriages because her babyrabies
was that bad? Hell, one very early abortion was enough nasty for me,
can't imagine going through 13 miscarriages ... that's really
twisted. That goofy bint should have gotten some mental health care
to deal with her "babyrabies" instead of IVF. Octomom is really not
that different from any of those deluded bints who think that they
have some imperative to spawn. As if the world needed their
children! That is what gets me about breeders. None of them care
about THE children, they care only about THEIR children

[The_Echo_Chamber]

On May 27, 8:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2012 07:40:17 -0500, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

> >duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in

> >news:fhf1s7llq0in4k0fp...@4ax.com:
>
> >> On Fri, 25 May 2012 16:25:10 -0500, Mitchell Holman
> >> <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>

> >>>elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>news:5335c78c-0999-4e60-
> >>>b93c-93df44177...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:
>

You've been told time and time again, your church bulletin shouldn't
be considered a valid source for factual information.

BTW, you can still be number #1, but still dying, dumbass.

[Mitchell Holman]

elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:217d4ebc-fa4e-4a62...@n9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:

> On May 27, 7:21 am, harry k <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On May 27, 5:21 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote

>> > innews:dda4c8c0-1e73-4dbe-
> bb19-c52...@b5g2000pbm.googlegroups.com:

Why do you hate women seeking to have their
fertility problems fixed? How about their allergy
problems and their eyesight problems?

Or should everyone with a defective bodily
member just accept it as "God's plan for them"?

[Mitchell Holman]

duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in
news:5274s7dedj2hvb2d4...@4ax.com:

But never he said the words "pope" or "bishop" or
"diocese" or "Vatican".

Your whole church is the creation of men, not Jesus.

[elizabeth]

On May 27, 10:50 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

> elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote innews:217d4ebc-fa4e-4a62...@n9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 27, 7:21 am, harry k <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On May 27, 5:21 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> > elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> > innews:dda4c8c0-1e73-4dbe-

> > bb19-c52a6c423...@b5g2000pbm.googlegroups.com:

Interesting.

>      Why do you hate women seeking to have their
> fertility problems fixed? How about their allergy
> problems and their eyesight problems?

Why do you say I hate women for having their "problems" fixed? That
says a lot about you, insisting you know how I feel about anything.
In fact, it's a sign of some very troubling personality disorders,
when you insist you know the subjective feelings of another. This is
more ad hominem than anything else, dearie. But I say that
infertility, in almost all cases where there isn't any morbidity
attached to the cause, is not an actual problem, any more than aging
is, and thus, using dangerous, expensive, and medically unnecessary Tx
is foolish, contemptible, and indicates a lot of greed, as in the case
of the Octomom fertility doctor. And he is pretty typical for that
industry, sad to say. The Tx and Rx used is experimental in nature,
and thus, women are being used as guinea pigs to correct something
that doesn't need correcting.

I don't hate people that stupid, but I will call them out on their
stupidity. And your response, so very typical of someone who just ate
a heapin' spoonful of Cognitive Dissonance.

As for the lame comparisons with allegies and eyesight, since they are
hardly in the same category, and do not involve the expense, the
danger, and the morbidity/mortality of reproduction, assisted or
unassisted, they simply have no relevance here, and demonstrate that
you can't argue the case on its own merits.

But the thing is, you are not a woman, you did not put yourself
through this, and I've had a long lifetime of men telling me that
women all should breed, must breed, and those who don't are evil,
hateful scum. \Maybe if men didn't push this shit on women, your
wife would not have had to go through the hell she did, to pump out a
cuntnugget so you could feel virile and she could feel useful. You
might want to look up the term "childfree" and read the testimony of
women who never wanted children and were pilloried for their
feelings.

Fuck you and your breeders uber alles mentality. Your words are
exactly that of the 3rd Reich, of the Ceaucescus, that breeding for
god, the state, is what women must do.

Fuck your mother for raising such a sick fucking asswipe like you.

>      Or should everyone with a defective bodily
> member just accept it as "God's plan for them"?

If you are not in any danger from such a condition, paying others to
treat it and put you in medical risk is crazy. We are talking about a
very significant rate of morbidity and mortality. And since it's not
your health or life being put on the line, shut the fuck up and either
let your wife speak for herself, or admit that you're more misogynist
than any of the antiabortniks spewing their shit.

It's about choice. Women do choose NOT to breed. Not my problem your
wife feels that she is nothing but a walking incubator, a defective
one, at that. If she had a husband who loved her for herself, she'd
probably be at least as happy as she pretends to be now. Sheesh.
What a MaryMartyr she must be! But reallly, choosing to miscarry 13
times??????????????? That's sick, very sick ... talk about terminal
babyrabies ...

[duke]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 07:24:24 -0700 (PDT), harry k <turnk...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

You're a funny guy, mistaking ivf for fertility treatments.

[Mitchell Holman]

duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in
news:2rv4s7leckjiktmg2...@4ax.com:

Earth to Duke - what do you think the "F" stands for in "IVF"?

[Mitchell Holman]

elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:5dfa9ff0-45d6-461b...@oe8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com:

Have you ever asked any?

Have you been to a fertility clinic and told
the women there that sterility is their God-given
fate and they should just accept it?

> Infertility affects both men and women. So, would you also say that
> of an infertile man? That they "suffer?"

If people - men or women - need medical assistence
in making a child what business is it of yours?

[Mitchell Holman]

elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:9b97a8b6-d1a4-4eb0...@f9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com:

> On May 27, 10:50 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>> elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote

>> innews:217d4ebc-fa4e-4a62-95
> 38-2322...@n9g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:

Your quote, from above:

"Face it, bimbo, if God gave you a

miscarrying womb, it's for a good reason."


>

> But the thing is, you are not a woman, you did not put yourself
> through this, and I've had a long lifetime of men telling me that
> women all should breed, must breed, and those who don't are evil,
> hateful scum. \Maybe if men didn't push this shit on women, your
> wife would not have had to go through the hell she did, to pump out a
> cuntnugget so you could feel virile and she could feel useful.

Are you seriously claiming all women going
thru IVF are doing under men's orders? That no
woman really wants to have kids?

Tell that to Melissa Etheridge or Mary
Cheney, who desired children with no man in
their life ordering them to do it.

You
> might want to look up the term "childfree" and read the testimony of
> women who never wanted children and were pilloried for their
> feelings.
>
> Fuck you and your breeders uber alles mentality. Your words are
> exactly that of the 3rd Reich, of the Ceaucescus, that breeding for
> god, the state, is what women must do.
>
> Fuck your mother for raising such a sick fucking asswipe like you.
>
>>      Or should everyone with a defective bodily
>> member just accept it as "God's plan for them"?
>
> If you are not in any danger from such a condition, paying others to
> treat it and put you in medical risk is crazy. We are talking about a
> very significant rate of morbidity and mortality. And since it's not
> your health or life being put on the line, shut the fuck up and either
> let your wife speak for herself, or admit that you're more misogynist
> than any of the antiabortniks spewing their shit.
>
> It's about choice. Women do choose NOT to breed.

And what about women who choose TO breed?

Or is does that never happen where you come from?

[elizabeth]

On May 27, 2:34 pm, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

As long as they pay for it themselves, and don't brag about it in
public, it's not my business. But, if you yap about it in a public
forum,. yes, I will exercise my right to ridicule you. If you demand
that common resources be used for it, yes, I will exercise my right to
ridicule. I have some friends who are transexual. I don't judge
them, but don't feel that it's right to use common resources to pay
for sex change operations, because I feel that these surgical
procedures are experimental, and often have some nasty side effects.
So, I would advise anyone to think more than once about allowing those
scalpel jockeys to play with their naughty bits. There are people who
are addicted to surgical procedures, and I'm just the opposite. I've
told my doctor that no surgeon is *ever* allowed to cut me again, for
*anything* That is my right.

So, do what you will, but if I exercise my right to ridicule, and the
sort of "arguments" presented as as lame as yours have been in this
thread, I will exercise my right to ridicule. And personally, I find
that men who talk about their wive's bodies the way you do to be
really, really creepy. I find men who dismiss the very real damages
done by reproduction to be worthy of having their dicks ripped off
with rusty pliers and shoved down their throats.

You might want to consider not bringing in such personal business to a
public forum in the future.

[Dino]

Wow, even Mitchell sees you as someone who has issues.

[elizabeth]

So you finally got the point, to stop your insane accusations of
insanity towards those you cyberstalk? Why didnt you take the advice
of your former employer and leave the ng, as you promised to do?

Robert J. Heishman, you are so fucked up you will never understand how
fucked up you are, but you might want to consider that it's your fault
when your life keeps imploding on you. Whoever coerced you to post
that you would never return had your best interests in mind. If you
were in your right mind, you'd know that.

[Dino]

> So ....

You still lie, you are still obsessed, and you still need mental help.

[duke]

Fertilization (like in a labratory dish rather than the first date between sperm
and egg is an act of loving sex.)

[duke]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 07:26:26 -0700 (PDT), harry k <turnk...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Actually, you are amongst the "also rans" when compared to membership
>in other religions.
>Harry K

Another way of saying you're clueless and didn't even know it.

[duke]

And I've told you time and time again, in fact each time, that the information
comes form other sources - clearly not a local church bulletin.

>BTW, you can still be number #1, but still dying, dumbass.

But we're not dying, and Jesus specifically stated 2000 years ago that death
will not overcome his Church. Those of you that have chosen the fires of hell
over God will only have yourself to blame.

[duke]

Or banana, yet I enjoy 1 every day.

>
> Your whole church is the creation of men, not Jesus.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Rockinghorse Winner]

* It may have been the liquor talking, but
Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

> elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in news:d5f7b49b-716e-40ec-
> 84ec-7ac...@t2g2000pbl.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On May 25, 7:02?pm, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>>> elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote in news:cb9e5d24-fd5c-
> 4103-
>>> 83c3-a83354dcf...@h10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>
>>> > On May 25, 8:32 am, harry k <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>> >> > The bint has no case. She knew the catlick teaching on IVF. And
>>> >> > since there is plenty of evidence of a high rate of serious birth
>>> >> > defects associated with all methods of fertility Tx, in this
> case,
>>> I
>>
>>> >> > agree with the church. There is no shortage of children to adopt>

>>> ? ? That explains why Americans are spending thousands

>>> of dollars and getting on waiting lists to adopt children
>>> in foriegn countries. Right.
>>

>> There are hundreds of thousands of children in the usa right now who
>> need homes.
>
>
> How many have YOU adopted?
>
>
>
>> But only healthy white infants are in demand. Some
>> people prefer to buy foreign children, the way some people will buy
>> puppies from a puppy mill instead of going to a shelter. People spend
>> a lot of money on stupid things. Like Octomom.
>
>
> Like the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court,
> who adopted two children from Panama.
>
>
>>
>>> > d

>>> >> > those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are
>>> selfish
>>> >> > beyond all measure. FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
>>> >> > womb, it's for a good reason.
>>>

>>> >> Now _there_ is a fine example of religious thought and caring. Glad
> I
>>> >> got out of the church where such people proliferate.
>>>
>>> >> Harry K
>>>
>>> > You poor thing, did you hurt yourself jumping to that conclusion?
>>>

>>> > I don't go to church. ?But the catlicks can't get everything wrong,

>>> > and in this case, they are right, but for the wrong reasons.
>>>
>>> > Assisted fertility is a complete rip off, it results in a high % of
>>> > babies with serious birth defects,
>>>

>>> ? ? ?Proof?

>>
>> Google it yourself.
>
>
> Another netcoward, posting claims they cannot prove.
>
>
>>
>>> > and it is used by people so
>>> > insanely convinced that their flawed dna needs replicating that they
>>> > will spend thousands, like Octomom, in an attempt to make themselves
>>> > feel like their lives are meaningful, by breeding.
>>>

>>> ? ? ?After 13 miscarriages we went into "assisted

>>> fertility". Our resulting daughter is now studying
>>> to be veterinarian. Not meaningful, you say?
>>
>> So what? So you had the money to keep playing god .. . who cares?
>
>

> Getting fertility treatments is no different
> than getting any other medical treatments. Is it
> "sinful" to get glasses or knee replacements or
> heart valves?
>

There are moral issues in fertility treatments (some not all treatments)
that the other procedures do not have. The Church has the responsibility to
raise these issues and bring them to the world's attention, especially when
these issues are largely forgotten by those involved in these procedures.

Let me ask you a question. What if you employed someone you found out was
involved in bombings in some part of the world. Would you have any
compunctions about continuing to employ such a person?

Terry
--
"For I would ride with you upon the wind, |/
Run on the top of the dishevelled tide, |/ Gentoo Linux
And dance upon the mountains like a flame." |/
-Yeats |/

[Alan Ferris]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 08:06:02 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth
<elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote:

>And another man who insists that all women are good for is breeding.

You were responding to your own words you idiot.

[Paul Duca (tomservo56954@comcast.net)]

On May 28, 7:43 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2012 16:25:17 -0500, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

> >duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in

> >>>> >> >>>> > >PaulSchool in Fort Wayne, filed a federal lawsuit

> Fertilization (like in a laboratory dish rather than the first date between sperm
> and egg in an act of sex...marriage NOT required, especially for me.)
>
>
>
> duke - American American
>

[Paul Duca (tomservo56954@comcast.net)]

On May 28, 7:46 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2012 09:39:29 -0700 (PDT), The_Echo_Chamber
>
>
>
> <echochambe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On May 27, 8:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 26 May 2012 07:40:17 -0500, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> >duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in
> >> >news:fhf1s7llq0in4k0fp...@4ax.com:
>
> >> >> On Fri, 25 May 2012 16:25:10 -0500, Mitchell Holman
> >> >> <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> >>>elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> >>>news:5335c78c-0999-4e60-
> >> >>>b93c-93df44177...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> >>>> On May 25, 5:43 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> >>>>> Teacher Fired Over Infertility Treatments
> >> >>>>> April 26, 2012
>
> >> >>>>> A teacher at a Catholic school in Indiana is suing the
> >> >>>>> diocese where she worked after being fired because the
> >> >>>>> in vitro fertilization treatments she received were
> >> >>>>> considered against church teachings.
>
> >> >>>>> Emily Herx, a former English teacher at St. Vincent de

> >> >>>>>PaulSchool in Fort Wayne, filed a federal lawsuit

> will not overcome his Church.  That is because being in His Church is a living death.
>
>
> duke - American American
>

[harry k]

On May 28, 4:43 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2012 16:25:17 -0500, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:

> >duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in

So fertilization due to rape or just two horny people 'getting it on'
is an
act of loving sex?

Harry K

[The_Echo_Chamber]

Bullshit. You believe only what your church tells you. Anything else
is dismissed by you.

> >BTW, you can still be number #1, but still dying, dumbass.
>
> But we're not dying, and Jesus specifically stated 2000 years ago that death
> will not overcome his Church.  Those of you that have chosen the fires of hell
> over God will only have yourself to blame.

Your church is dying. Even your pope says so. But, since it wasn't
in your church bulletin, you don't believe it.

[duke]

On Mon, 28 May 2012 13:09:56 -0700 (PDT), harry k <turnk...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>So fertilization due to rape or just two horny people 'getting it on'
>is an act of loving sex?

Is the rapist or two horny people using their thumb instead?

Perhaps I need to explain to you that God allowed for the procreation of the
race by placing 1/2 the equation in each of woman (egg) and man (sperm) and
provided for their first date via mutually shaped organs during a period of
intense love making.

Didn't you know this?

>Harry K

[duke]

On Mon, 28 May 2012 13:43:01 -0700 (PDT), The_Echo_Chamber
<echoch...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> >> >     Even the Pope admits your Church is dying.
>> >> >     Didn't you get the memo?
>>
>> >> Yes I did.  And it said we are still #1.
>>
>> >You've been told time and time again, your church bulletin shouldn't
>> >be considered a valid source for factual information.

>> And I've told you time and time again, in fact each time, that the information
>> comes form other sources - clearly not a local church bulletin.

>Bullshit. You believe only what your church tells you. Anything else
>is dismissed by you.

And you get your information from a "used" toilet paper?

>> >BTW, you can still be number #1, but still dying, dumbass.
>>
>> But we're not dying, and Jesus specifically stated 2000 years ago that death
>> will not overcome his Church.  Those of you that have chosen the fires of hell
>> over God will only have yourself to blame.

>Your church is dying. Even your pope says so. But, since it wasn't
>in your church bulletin, you don't believe it.

Your news is shit, pardon the pun.

[Alan Ferris]

On Tue, 29 May 2012 06:45:37 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>>> Fertilization (like in a labratory dish rather than the first date between sperm
>>> and egg is an act of loving sex.)
>
>>So fertilization due to rape or just two horny people 'getting it on'
>>is an act of loving sex?
>
>Is the rapist or two horny people using their thumb instead?
>
>Perhaps I need to explain to you that God allowed for the procreation of the
>race by placing 1/2 the equation in each of woman (egg) and man (sperm) and
>provided for their first date via mutually shaped organs during a period of
>intense love making.
>
>Didn't you know this?

Yet again Earl trying to duck the question about rape being wrong.
This is because he thinks the abuse of children is normal:

"I was talking about a loving family teasingly pinching
nipples (pre breast type) and comparing how that's quite
alright in a family setting but clearly and quickly labeled
as child molestation outside the family setting."
- duke (Earl J Weber)

"As I've stated before, the comment is from a ng discussion
addressing a double standard - what is considered "ok" in
the family setting quickly becomes molestation by an outsider.
You can see that in the comment itself." - duke (Earl J Weber)

[Brian E. Clark]

In article <tif1s7173jaliuanm...@4ax.com>,
duckg...@cox.net says...

> >So if your appendix should rupture, you'd do what? You'd
> >sit back an die, right, safe in the knowledge that God gave
> >a faulty appendix for a reason?
>
> No, a ruptured appendix is a definite danger to the human body,
> and is proper for correction just like a tumor is.

You missed the point. The earlier commenter wrote, in
(ironic) opposition to in vitro fertility procedures,
"...if God gave you a miscarrying womb, it's for a good
reason."

By the same token, if God gave a woman a malfunctioning
appendix, it would be erroneous to take steps to correct
God's actions.

The same reasoning applies to eyeglasses. By what logic,
Duke, could someone assert that it is okay to mitigate
against the effects of bad corneas, but not ameliorate the
effects of a faulty fallopian tube?

--
-----------
Brian E. Clark

[elizabeth]

On May 30, 9:44 am, Brian E. Clark <brianecl...@newsgroup.reply.only>
wrote:
> In article <tif1s7173jaliuanms2bd8oupkf9cvt...@4ax.com>,
> duckgumb...@cox.net says...

Another man who doesn't get it.

You can die from a ruptured appendix.

Can you name a single woman whose death was caused by infertility?
And you do know that women die from complications of pregnancy and
childbirth, and there is a significant morbidity and mortality
associated with the use of the experimental Rx and Tx in IVF?

Why is it men seem to think that all women want to breed, and the
dangers they face to do so is insignificant? We are not talking about
the problems associated with ectopic pregnancy, which, by the way, is
fairly common after tubal ligations. Typical, men won't get
vasectomies, the cheapest, safest, most effective method ..and never
bother considering the damage done to women by both complications of
pregnancy and contraception ... how typical.

BTW, the most common cause of blocked fallopian tubes is STDS, usually
carried by men with no symptoms. Women are 7-18 times more likely to
catch an STD from an infected man than a man is likely to catch an STD
from an infected woman. Cervical cancer is caused by sex with
infected men, esp uncircumcised men.

Dont see a lot of men out there clamoring to save women's lives by
getting circumcised ... even though in Africa, the most effective way
of eliminating the AIDS pandemic is circumcision. Which, by the way,
is not analagous to female genital mutilation. That actually kills
women and infants, because it makes normal childbirth impossible.

I wish men could get, say, a 4th degree tear or two, then make such
idiotic comparisons.

[HVAC]

On 5/30/2012 12:58 PM, elizabeth wrote:
>
> BTW, the most common cause of blocked fallopian tubes is STDS, usually
> carried by men with no symptoms. Women are 7-18 times more likely to
> catch an STD from an infected man than a man is likely to catch an STD
> from an infected woman. Cervical cancer is caused by sex with
> infected men, esp uncircumcised men.
>
> Dont see a lot of men out there clamoring to save women's lives by
> getting circumcised ... even though in Africa, the most effective way
> of eliminating the AIDS pandemic is circumcision. Which, by the way,
> is not analagous to female genital mutilation. That actually kills
> women and infants, because it makes normal childbirth impossible.
>
> I wish men could get, say, a 4th degree tear or two, then make such
> idiotic comparisons.

Enough with the 'I am woman, hear me roar' crap.
Men are men and women are women...Deal with it.






--
"OK you cunts, let's see what you can do now" -Hit Girl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjO7kBqTFqo

[Mitchell Holman]

elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in news:62ca7ac7-ac42-44e4-
b886-6bc...@z4g2000pbz.googlegroups.com:

Can you name one who died from nearsightedness or
astigmatism?

By your standards those maladies - like infertility -
come from God and should not be treated.

> And you do know that women die from complications of pregnancy and
> childbirth, and there is a significant morbidity and mortality
> associated with the use of the experimental Rx and Tx in IVF?

If women CHOOSE the risks of pregnancy - and the
majority seem to do so - what is that you?

>
> Why is it men seem to think that all women want to breed, and the
> dangers they face to do so is insignificant? We are not talking about
> the problems associated with ectopic pregnancy, which, by the way, is
> fairly common after tubal ligations. Typical, men won't get
> vasectomies, the cheapest, safest, most effective method ..and never
> bother considering the damage done to women by both complications of
> pregnancy and contraception ... how typical.

What do men have to do with this? Are you
assuming no woman ever wants to have children,
that all of them are just obeying some man?

How very condescending..........

[Doc Smartass]

elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in news:5335c78c-0999-4e60-
b93c-93d...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:

> On May 25, 5:43 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>> Teacher Fired Over Infertility Treatments
>> April 26, 2012
>>
>> A teacher at a Catholic school in Indiana is suing the
>> diocese where she worked after being fired because the
>> in vitro fertilization treatments she received were
>> considered against church teachings.

<snip>

>> http://tinyurl.com/6n4ejc8
>
> The bint has no case. She knew the catlick teaching on IVF. And
> since there is plenty of evidence of a high rate of serious birth
> defects associated with all methods of fertility Tx, in this case, I

> agree with the church. There is no shortage of children to adopt, and
> those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are selfish

> beyond all measure. FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying

> womb, it's for a good reason.

Oh, look! An idiot! Never seen one on the Internet before.

--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling aa # 1939

Kooks! http://kookclearinghouse.blogspot.com/

Books! http://jw-bookblog.blogspot.com/

Proud to be everything the right wing hates.

[Doc Smartass]

"Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote in
news:K6CdnRy_We1AXCLS...@posted.localnet:

> "harry k" <turnk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d27a5b76-33bb-4868-9c66-74583e2a8745
@wp3g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

> On May 25, 8:13 am, elizabeth <elizabethfran...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> The bint has no case. She knew the catlick teaching on IVF. And
>> since there is plenty of evidence of a high rate of serious birth
>> defects associated with all methods of fertility Tx, in this case, I
>> agree with the church. There is no shortage of children to adopt, and
>> those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are selfish
>> beyond all measure. FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
>> womb, it's for a good reason.
>

> Now _there_ is a fine example of religious thought and caring. Glad I
> got out of the church where such people proliferate.
>

> + And don't you dare come begging back.

You religionists are the beggars--and parasites.

[Mitchell Holman]

Doc Smartass <Fortbr...@yahoobrick.com> wrote in
news:XnsA063CF4155DE...@216.196.97.131:

> elizabeth <elizabet...@gmail.com> wrote in news:5335c78c-0999-
4e60-
> b93c-93d...@l10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On May 25, 5:43 am, Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>>> Teacher Fired Over Infertility Treatments
>>> April 26, 2012
>>>
>>> A teacher at a Catholic school in Indiana is suing the
>>> diocese where she worked after being fired because the
>>> in vitro fertilization treatments she received were
>>> considered against church teachings.
>
> <snip>
>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/6n4ejc8
>>
>> The bint has no case. She knew the catlick teaching on IVF. And
>> since there is plenty of evidence of a high rate of serious birth
>> defects associated with all methods of fertility Tx, in this case, I
>> agree with the church. There is no shortage of children to adopt, and
>> those who feel their defective DNA needs to be propagated are selfish
>> beyond all measure. FAce it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying
>> womb, it's for a good reason.
>
> Oh, look! An idiot! Never seen one on the Internet before.
>

I would love to see "elizabeth" march into a fertility
clinic and preach her mantra to the women waiting there.


"Face it, bimbo, if God gave you a miscarrying

womb, it's for a good reason."

Elizabeth Frantes, May 29, 2012

[linuxgal]

HVAC wrote:

>
> Enough with the 'I am woman, hear me roar' crap.
> Men are men and women are women...Deal with it.

College is just like a woman -- you work so hard to get in, but then
nine months later you wish you'd never come.