Benjamin Franklin and the Jews
J Young
Benjamin Franklin. (This prediction was made in a Chit Chat Around the Table
During Intermissions, at the Philadelphia Constitutional Convention of 1787.
This statement was recorded in the diary of Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, a
delegate from South Carolina.):
I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young
nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. That menace,
gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great
number, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial
integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have
sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that
nation is founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state
within the state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to
death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal. For over 1,700
years, the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been
exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But, gentlemen, did the
world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some reason for
not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on
vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on
Christians and other peoples not of their race.
If you do not exclude them from these United States, in this Constitution,
in less than 200 years they will have swarmed here in such great numbers
that they will dominate and devour the land and change our form of
government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives, our
substance and jeopardized our liberty.
If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be
working in the fields to furnish them substance, while they will be in the
counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not
exclude Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves.
Jews, gentlemen, are Asiatics, let them be born where they will or how many
generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. Their
ideas do not conform to an American's, and will not even though they live
among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots. Jews are
Asiatics, are a menace to this country if permitted entrance, and should be
excluded by this Constitutional Convention.
--
----------
J Yöung
youngo...@aol.com
Parsifal
J Young schrieb:
> Benjamin Franklin. (This prediction was made in a Chit Chat Around the Table
> During Intermissions, at the Philadelphia Constitutional Convention of 1787.
> This statement was recorded in the diary of Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, a
> delegate from South Carolina.):
>
> I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young
> nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. That menace,
> gentlemen, is the Jews.
Why on earth are you sending this, if not to display, again, your
antisemitism?
Is this another example of your "decency"?
Tell us, J Young, is there anything in you that is good at all?
What's your purpose in life? How can you even look to yourself in a
mirror?
john fernbach
Franklin actually said this, but I think the anti-Semitic fantasy being
expressed here is one that only was widely believed in England and
Western Europe in the nineteenth century.
Whether or not Franklin was anti-Semitic -- and I've never seen
evidence that he was -- the anti-Jewish accusations being made here are
anachronistic, not likely to be of concern to most Englishmen and most
American rebels against England in the 1780s.
If I remember right, the whole Rothschild family banking dynasty really
only began to flourish in the late 1700s, when Meyer Rothschild had to
flee from Frankfort, Germany to England. The bulk of the money that
the Rothschilds made in the early years came from big loans to
conservative European governments during the Napoleonic era, which
didn't begin until after Franklin supposedly made these remarks.
In the 1780s, the big British corporation that Americans and a lot of
other people loved to hate was the British East India Company, which
had negligible Jewish involvement. The big British bankers, to the
extent they existed, were the Bank of England, which had been set up
under William & Mary in the late 1600s to manage the national debt, and
several Quaker banks involved in financing the slave trade -- for
example, Barclays of London.
There were some Jewish merchants and some poor Jewish peddlers present
in London in the 1780s - Jews had been immigrating to England since the
1650s, when Oliver Cromwell decided to readmit Jews to the country on
the theory that the Christian Bible, as the Puritans understood it,
required the Jews to reoccupy Jerusalem before the Battle of Armageddon
could be fought and the Christian millennium could begin. As Cromwell
saw it, it was the duty of good Puritans in England to assist the
children of Israel as much as possible so that they could accomplish
this objective, supposedly fulfilling God's will.
The Jewish commercial and banking presence in 1780 in the
English-speaking world, however, was petty minimal compared to the
presence of Anglicans, English Dissenters and the Dutch, who had
invested heavily in the Bank of England.
QED: Parsifal is probably lying his head off about the Franklin quote.
Of course, this doesn't prove that every Jewish banker or Jewish
businessmen in history has been some kind of saintly Mother Theresa
figure.
But the same is true for good Christians and good "Aryans," obviously.
The main problem with bankers is not that they're Jewish or Gentiles or
whatever -- their main failing is that they're bankers.
LC
One bigoted nut with many nyms, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> wrote in
message news:Dv-dnfyLKZlBpaTY...@giganews.com...
> Benjamin Franklin. (This prediction was made in a Chit Chat Around the
> Table During Intermissions, at the Philadelphia Constitutional Convention
> of 1787. This statement was recorded in the diary of Charles Cotesworth
> Pinckney, a delegate from South Carolina.):
> I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young
> nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. That menace,
> gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever
<snip "J/IBen's" usual bigotry>
Well, it seems that now that so many this MPD troll's sockpuppets have been
exposed, he's letting his true feelings come out via the "J" entity.
Funny how they all sound the same:
"I'm not much for poetry but I'll give it a shot:
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Watch your wallets
Here comes a Jew"
From: "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com>
Message-ID: NvydnZ_KuseAq5vY...@giganews.com
"It's crap like this that beckons intelligent people to ask "What the
hell are the Jews crying about now?"
From: "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1116817005.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
"The Jews should learn to mind their own damn business and leave the
Catholic Church alone. Jews should be grateful for all the lives the
Holy See saved, not bitch about the ones who couldn't be saved."
From: "Auric Hellman" <adhell...@volcanomail.com>
Message-ID: <1107111802.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
"Many times I have heard critisism directed at the Catholic Church for
not doing enough to help the Jews in their times of trouble.What
exactly have the Jews ever done for the Catholic Church,or any
Christian denomination for that matter.Seems to me it's all been one
sided throughout history. Christians give,give,give.Jews take,take,and
complain that they're not getting enough."
From: adhe...@volcanomail.com (Auric D. Hellman)
Newsgroups:
soc.culture.jewish,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox,soc.culture.israel
Subject: The Vatican and the Jews.
Message-ID: 7f6257f6.0403...@posting.google.com
"The Jews killed him. Why all the denial?...These are the
type of situations that causes people to question the accuracy of most
claims made by the Jews.The Jews killed Christ and will continue to
pay the price (e.g. WW2)until Jesus comes again and redeems them for
their sins."
From: adhell...@volcanomail.com (Auric D. Hellman)
Subject: Who really killed Christ?
Message-ID: <7f6257f6.0402...@posting.google.com>
"The jews occupying the now illegal, even by Iraeli law, settlements in
Gaza and who continue to invoke the Nazi comparison to the forced
evictions should be forced to sit through a screening of "Schindler's
List"; paying extra close attention to the scene where they liquidate
the ghetto."
From: "simon sez" <simon...@volcanomail.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.culture.jewish,alt.religion.christian,soc.culture.israel,alt.politics,seattle.politics
Subject: The Gaza - Nazi comparison
Message-ID: 1124394308.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
"Forgive me for saying but, they (the rabbi's) are completely full of
shit. This "event" has been one of the more highly publicized stories
in Israel and these guys knew damn well what route the parade would
travel. It's time these rabbi's come out of the closet; everybody knows
their secret."
From: "simon sez" <simon...@volcanomail.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian,soc.culture.israel,alt.politics,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Gay rabbi's "outed" in Israel
Message-ID: <1124341371.4...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
And my personal favorite "Lord Howard Hertz":
"The opening of the Vatican Archives has already proven that accusations
against Pius XI and Pius XII are baseless."
From: "Lord Howard Hertz" <lordhowardhe...@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.liberalism,alt.society.liberalism,seattle.politics,soc.culture.israel
Subject: New Vatican Archival Evidence Vindicates Pope Pius XII
Message-ID: <wbOdncBUUPg8_LPY...@giganews.com>
LC~ Kook-a-doodle-doo!
"At the risk of being labeled an anti-semite, which I most certainly am
not;"
From: "J Young" youngopini...@aol.com, Big. Fat. Liar.
Newsgroups:
alt.politics,alt.politics.europe,alt.politics.homosexuality,seattle.politics,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Nazi war criminal, 91, hunted in Europe
Message-ID: <lcWdnUCevr4...@giganews.com>
Parsifal
john fernbach schrieb:
> I don't believe Parsifal's cite is genuine.
Hey! I was answering to J fucking Young posting. Don't attribute to me
ANY of his repulsive prose...
cactus
It's just another fraud from another hatemonger.
This from
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/franklin_prophecy/franklin_documenting_fraud.asp
_______________________________________________________________________________________
The Franklin "Prophecy"
Modern Anti-Semitic Myth Making
Introduction
This article, which thoroughly documents the history of the transparent
fraud known as the Franklin "Prophecy", appeared almost forty-five years
ago in the April-May 1954 issue of Facts, a publication of the
Anti-Defamation League. At the time, the authors wrote "This 20-year-old
anti-Semitic hoax is circulating again." Today, more than sixty-five
years after it was manufactured, the "Prophecy" it is still circulating,
a staple of anti-Semitic propaganda. It can be found on a number of web
sites maintained by haters and hate-groups. The article is, therefore,
still timely and instructive
Another anti-Semitic hoax on history, of a piece with that incredible
forgery, The Protocols of The Learned Elders of Zion, but not as widely
distributed nor as successful in creating the pogrom atmospheres that
were the achievements of the Protocols, is a speech attributed to
Benjamin Franklin during the Constitutional Convention of 1787. The
anti-Semitic movement, which founded the hoax, calls it the Franklin
Prophecy — ascribing to Franklin a dire warning that unless Jews were
expelled from the new nation by Constitutional decree they would
ultimately immigrate in great numbers to the detriment of the Christian
population.
Of course, no such speech was ever made. But the hoaxers sought to
impart an aura of historical credibility to the fake by claiming that
the speech is quoted in a "private diary" of Charles Pinckney,
Revolutionary leader who was delegate from South Carolina to the
Constitutional Convention. They also maintain that the diary is now in
the possession of the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia, a bald lie
which Henry Butler Allen, director of the Institute, has often refuted.
Allen says that "historians and librarians have not been able to find
[the diary] or any record of it having existed."
A copy of the forgery was anonymously circulated through the mails this
month [May 1954] on stationery captioned WAR DEPARTMENT, OFFICE OF THE
CHIEF OF STAFF. The envelope bore a May 3 postmark from Atlanta, Ga.
This is the latest in a series of recent incidents that suggest another
revival of the Prophecy. A copy was picked up earlier this year at a
Tampa, Fla., bus stop, and there have been recent distributions of it in
Nebraska, Pennsylvania and Alabama.
The "Prophecy"
The Franklin Prophecy was first published in February, 1934, in William
Dudley Pelley’s publication, Liberation. (In 1942 Pelley was convicted
of sedition and given a 15-year sentence.) The following is the most
common version of the faked speech:
There is a great danger for the United State of America. This great
danger is the Jew. Gentlemen, in every land the Jews have settled, they
have depressed the moral level and lowered the degree of commercial
honesty. They have remained apart and unassimilated; oppressed, they
attempt to strangle the nation financially, as in the case of Portugal
and Spain.
For more than seventeen hundred years they have lamented their
sorrowful fate — namely, that they have been driven out of their mother
land; but, gentlemen, if the civilized world today should give them back
Palestine and their property, they would immediately find pressing
reason for not returning there. Why? Because they are vampires and
vampires cannot live on other vampires --they cannot live among
themselves. They must live among Christians and others who do not belong
to their race.
If they are not expelled from the United States by the Constitution
within less than one hundred years, they will stream into this country
in such numbers that they will rule and destroy us and change our form
of Government for which we Americans shed our blood and sacrificed our
life, property and personal freedom. If the Jews are not excluded within
two hundred years, our children will be working in the field to feed
Jews while they remain in the counting houses, gleefully rubbing their
hands.
I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews forever, your
children and your children’s children will curse you in their graves.
Their ideas are not those of Americans, even when they lived among us
for ten generations. The leopard cannot change his spots. The Jews are a
danger to this land, and if they are allowed to enter, they will imperil
our institutions. They should be excluded by the Constitution.
The Uses of the "Prophecy"
For more than two decades the Prophecy has been circulated throughout
the United States. In the 1930's it was disseminated by chain letters.
Printed copies of the spurious speech were placed in trains, buses,
railway stations and similar public places. It appeared in the
propaganda press and broadcasts of Nazi Germany and fascist Italy, and a
version was included in the 1935 edition of Handbucb der Judenfrage
(Handbook On The Jewish Question), a political tome by Theodor Fritsch,
first written several decades earlier, that became a Nazi bible.
Such anti-Semitic groups as Chicago’s We The Mothers Mobilize For
America exploit the Prophecy as part of their stock-in-trade. Gerald L.
K. Smith and other anti-Semitic propagandists continue to argue its
authenticity [The Cross and The Flag, Dec., 1952]. In recent years
reprints of it have appeared in Mrs. Lyrl Van Hyning’s Women’s Voice
[July 31, 1952] and Harry William Pyle’s Political Reporter [July,
1953]. This month [May,1954] it was a feature of an anti-Semitic
publication, The Point, put out by Father Leonard Feeney, the
excommunicated priest, and his group at St Benedict’s Center in
Cambridge, Mass.
Documenting a Fraud
The fraudulent nature of the Prophecy -- and the fact that anti-Semitism
was foreign to Franklin’s behavior — has been substantially documented
by eminent historians. The late Charles A. Beard reported, "I cannot
find a single original source that gives the slightest justification for
believing that the Prophecy is anything more than a barefaced forgery.
Not a word have I discovered in Franklin’s letters and papers expressing
any such sentiments against the Jews as are ascribed to him by the Nazis
— American and German. His well-known liberality in matters of religious
opinion would, in fact, have precluded the kind of utterances put in his
mouth by this palpable forgery . . . In his writings on immigration,
Franklin made no mention of discrimination against Jews."
Beard also noted that "the phraseology of the alleged Prophecy is not
that of the 18th century; nor is the language that of Franklin. It
contains certain words that belong to contemporary (Nazi) Germany rather
than America of Franklin’s period. For example, the word ‘homeland’ was
not employed by Jews in Franklin’s time. It was created in connection
with the Palestine mandate." Beard also showed "positive evidence" that
Franklin held Jews in high regard, citing the instance when the Hebrew
Society of Philadelphia sought to raise money for a synagogue in
Philadelphia. Franklin signed the petition of appeal for contributions
to "citizens of every religious denomination" and gave 5 pounds himself
to the fund.
J. Henry Smythe, Jr., compiler of The Amazing Benjamin Franklin, has
characterized the Prophecy as "a counterfeit," adding it was a "libel of
the Jewish race, unjust both to Jews and to the name and fame of
Benjamin Franklin. I have investigated this calumny and find no
historical basis." Julian P. Boyd, librarian of the Historical Society
of Pennsylvania, made the same evaluation, and John Clyde Oswald of the
International Benjamin Franklin Society noted that "the proceedings of
the Constitutional Convention of 1787 were secret. No official record
was kept but a great deal of information has been accumulated and pieced
together, giving a fairly good picture of what transpired. Franklin was
then 81 years of age and in poor health. He took an active part in the
proceedings but made his contributions to the deliberations not orally,
but in written memoranda, which he handed to this friend, James Wilson,
another member of the Philadelphia delegation, who sat by him and who
read them to the Convention. They have been preserved and the collection
is believed to be complete..."
The late Carl Van Doren, a biographer of Benjamin Franklin made this report:
The speech against the Jews which Benjamin Franklin is alleged to
have made the Constitutional Convention of 1787 is a forgery, produced
within the past five years [1933-38]. The forger, whoever he was, claims
that the speech was taken down by Charles Pinckney of South Carolina and
preserved in his Journal. The forger presumably knew that, in a letter
to John Quincy Adams dated December 30, 1818, Pinckney said he had kept
a Journal of the proceedings at the Convention. But this Journal, if it
ever existed, has never been found. The forger claims that Pinckney
‘published’ the Journal ‘for private distribution among his friends’
with the title Chit-Chat Around the Table During Intermissions. No copy
of any such printed Journal has come to light. Not content with these
two claims, the forger has further asserted that the original manuscript
of Franklin’s speech, apparently from Pinckney’s Journal, is in the
Franklin Institute, Philadelphia. The Franklin Institute does not
possess the manuscript.
The forger’s authority for his document is nearly as mythical as
could be imagined. He cites a manuscript which does not exist, a printed
book or pamphlet which nobody has seen, a Journal which has been lost
for more than a hundred years. There is no evidence of the slightest
value that Franklin ever made the alleged speech or ever said or thought
anything of the kind about the Jews.
This report originally appeared in the April-May 1954 issue of Facts, a
publication of the Anti-Defamation League
© 2000 Anti-Defamation League
_______________________________________________________________________________________
LC
"cactus" <b...@nonespam.com> wrote in message
news:j9c_g.14649$GR....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>> Parsifal wrote:
>>> J Young schrieb:
> <snip spurious Benjamin Franklin forgery>
> It's just another fraud from another hatemonger.
> This from
> http://www.adl.org/special_reports/franklin_prophecy/franklin_documenting_fraud.asp
Idiot troll "J Young" hasn't done his homework?
There's a surprise! <sarcasm>
LC~ Knows "J" never met an anti-Semitic/Holocaust denial story he wouldn't
take to.
"I'm one of the few people on Usenet who will ever acknowlege when they're
wrong."
From: "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com>, proven liar.
Message-ID: <1122269528.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Pimp Smartass
dn...@giganews.com:
> Subject: Benjamin Fra*SLAP*
Get yer narra ass back on yer corner, bitch.
Get me my money!
--
Doc Smartass
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of
words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people
who must use the words. - Philip K. Dick
Douglas Berry
said the following in alt.atheism and I was immediately reminded of
1,000 Chinchillas singing Handel's "Messiah" for some reason...
>Benjamin Franklin. (This prediction was made in a Chit Chat Around the Table
>During Intermissions, at the Philadelphia Constitutional Convention of 1787.
>This statement was recorded in the diary of Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, a
>delegate from South Carolina.):
Myth.
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/franklin_prophecy/franklin_intro.asp
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
J Young
"Douglas Berry" <pengu...@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:b6tij2lm1hc38otbc...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:58:12 -0400 "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com>
> said the following in alt.atheism and I was immediately reminded of
> 1,000 Chinchillas singing Handel's "Messiah" for some reason...
>
> >Benjamin Franklin. (This prediction was made in a Chit Chat Around the
Table
> >During Intermissions, at the Philadelphia Constitutional Convention of
1787.
> >This statement was recorded in the diary of Charles Cotesworth Pinckney,
a
> >delegate from South Carolina.):
>
> Myth.
>
> http://www.adl.org/special_reports/franklin_prophecy/franklin_intro.asp
>
> --
Do you doubt the authenticity of the 'spirit' of Franklin's diatrabe?
Douglas Berry
said the following in alt.atheism and I was immediately reminded of
1,000 Chinchillas singing Handel's "Messiah" for some reason...
>
>"Douglas Berry" <pengu...@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
>news:b6tij2lm1hc38otbc...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:58:12 -0400 "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com>
>> said the following in alt.atheism and I was immediately reminded of
>> 1,000 Chinchillas singing Handel's "Messiah" for some reason...
>>
>> >Benjamin Franklin. (This prediction was made in a Chit Chat Around the
>Table
>> >During Intermissions, at the Philadelphia Constitutional Convention of
>1787.
>> >This statement was recorded in the diary of Charles Cotesworth Pinckney,
>a
>> >delegate from South Carolina.):
>>
>> Myth.
>>
>> http://www.adl.org/special_reports/franklin_prophecy/franklin_intro.asp
>
Since Franklin never said it, it's not Franklin's diatribe. It's a
myth created by anti-Semites a century after the Constitutional
Convention. Franklin was a great believer in religious tolerance and
equality, even using his power as a publisher to encourage
Philadelphians of all faiths to contribute to the building of a new
synagogue in Philadelphia.
And no, Jews do not exist as vampires. They contribute to society the
same way everyone else does. The only reason they lived in isolation
in Europe was because the Christian authorities *made* them live in
locked ghettos, and forced them to wear distinctive clothing, and
forbade them from many occupations. When you do everything you can to
isolate and marginalize a population, don't be surprised when that
population develops its own culture and economy!
Franklin's Prophecy is just as big a forgery as the Protocols.
LC
KKKook "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:hoadnVW2E8UWEqTY...@giganews.com...
> Do you doubt the authenticity of the 'spirit' of Franklin's diatrabe?
Yes.
What's not in doubt is that you're an idiot, IBen.
Patricia Heil
bigots.