NEWS: Wrinkled Mootherhood
Caine
A wrinkle on motherhood
By Rita Rubin, USA TODAY
The hospital's breastfeeding consultant did a double take when she met
Morgan Zantua, who had just given birth to her daughter, Auriel.
"It isn't a typo. You are 51 and not 15," the consultant said.
By then, Zantua says, she was used to such reactions. Her mother's
response to the news that her eldest was pregnant is unprintable, Zantua
says with a laugh, although "she'll deny what she actually said."
Zantua is one of a tiny but growing number of women in their late 40s and
50s who are becoming first-time mothers. She is a breathtakingly rare
example of a woman who conceived without medical help at an age when the
average woman is postmenopausal.
Virtually all middle-age new moms have had to rely on donor eggs,
surrogate mothers or adoption. This group includes prominent artists and
politicians whose careers may have diverted them from motherhood early on
but provided the financial resources necessary to become mothers at a
late age.
"Working-class people are not waiting until their 40s" to become parents,
says Berkeley, Calif., marriage and family therapist Micky Duxbury, 54,
who was 46 when she adopted her daughter, now 8.
Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, became a mother at 58 when she
adopted infant daughter Katherine Bailey in 2001. Hutchison, who has
declined all requests for interviews about her family, adopted infant son
Houston Taylor not long after. After seven years of fertility treatments,
48-year-old playwright Wendy Wasserstein delivered daughter Lucy in
September 1999. And 46-year-old actress Geena Davis, who has not
discussed how she conceived, delivered her first child, a daughter, last
April.
The notion of women becoming mothers at an age when many are already
grandmothers has sparked a debate disproportionate to their small number.
Naysayers question whether it is fair to saddle children with mothers who
may not live to see them graduate from college. Yet, men who father
children at an advanced age — think actors Anthony Quinn and Tony Randall
— are more likely to attract slaps on the back than raised eyebrows.
"Being an older dad doesn't have the same loadedness as being an older
mom," Duxbury says. "They are not the primary caregiver, mostly. Men
aging isn't as loaded an issue yet."
The artificial reproductive technology program at Boston's Brig-ham and
Women's Hospital is one of many that won't use donor eggs to treat
infertile women over 49. One reason: the possibility that any resulting
offspring will be orphaned at a young age. Some programs will accept
postmenopausal patients only if their husbands are younger.
"You're going to be creating orphans," Marilyn Nolen says she heard more
than once when she was pregnant.
Nolen, 58, is the mother of twins Travis and Ryan, who will be 3 in
March. She conceived via in vitro fertilization with donor eggs and
husband Randy's sperm. The couple married, both for the first time, when
she was 43. He is nearly seven years younger.
Nolen, volleyball coach at Saint Louis University, didn't tell anyone she
was pregnant until she was six months along. "I was a little apprehensive
about how people would react: 'Are you nuts?' " she says.
'They wouldn't have had life'
Nolen says she doesn't bother correcting people who assume she's her
sons' grandmother. But she's not going to apologize for bringing twins
into the world at age 55. "They've got life, and they wouldn't have had
life," she says. "They've got more advantages than many, many kids."
Duxbury, who specializes in counseling people about adoption, thinks age
is even more of an issue for adoptive parents. "For a kid to deal with
the losses that are attendant to adoption, then also deal in their late
teens or 20s, if not earlier, with a dying parent" is not "ethically
sound," she says.
Adam Pertman, executive director of the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption
Institute in New York, disagrees. Pertman, 49, and his wife, Judy
Baumwoll, 51, adopted Zachary, now 8, and Emilia, now 5.
"We're living longer, and we're healthier as we age," says Pertman,
author of Adoption Nation. "If you adopt at age 52, you can feel fairly
confident that, A, you're going to be mobile and be able to take care of
your kids, and, B, you're probably well-off enough that you can provide
for your kid. You might even see grandchildren."
Midlife mothers say their children spur them to stay as healthy and,
sometimes, as youthful-looking as possible. Duxbury remembers the time a
man in his 70s walked past her and her daughter, then 5, and asked:
"Aren't grandkids the apple of our eyes?"
"For a minute, I'm like, 'Why is he saying that to me?' " she recalls.
Actually, Duxbury's daughter has no grandparents, which is not uncommon
for young children with older parents. "My daughter is not bereft because
she doesn't have grandparents," Duxbury says. "But would it be nicer if
she had grandparents? Yes."
Sarah Cook's mother was 50 when she was born 6 1/2; years ago, and both
her maternal grandparents are still alive. Her grandmother is 85, her
grandfather is 89, and his mother died at 100. "I have wonderful genes,
thank goodness," says Sarah's mom, Judy Bershak of Los Angeles.
Like others who come late to motherhood, Bershak didn't deliberately
postpone having children. She had not met a man she thought was dad
material — in other words, her husband — until she was in her 40s.
Bershak and David Cook taught at the same South Central Los Angeles
junior high school. He's nearly 20 years younger than she is.
"He wanted a family," Bershak says. "His mother was very upset, because
she thought I could never have children. He didn't say, 'I'm not going to
marry you because you can't have children.' He said he'd like to try, but
if it didn't happen, it's not going to happen."
Bershak was 44 when she married Cook, now a deputy attorney general for
California. "For a few years, we tried (to get pregnant) with the
ovulation kits and the whole bit," she says. "While we were doing that,
we started the adoption process."
But repeated attempts at private domestic adoption failed. The couple
decided against in vitro fertilization after learning about its risks and
virtually nil success rate in women Bershak's age.
They'd pretty much given up on having children when their 46-year-old
neighbor got pregnant with a younger woman's egg.
"We had the adoption money — almost $20,000 — left," Bershak recalls. "We
said, 'You know what, it's worth a try. If it doesn't work, it's just the
money that's gone.' "
Bershak and Cook made an appointment to see Richard Paulson, their
neighbor's infertility specialist, at the University of Southern
California.
Paulson, who also was Nolen's doctor, made headlines in 1997 when his
fertility program reported that one patient had delivered at age 63 with
the help of donor eggs. The program had an age limit of 55, but Arceli
Keh had told doctors she was 10 years younger than she was.
In November, Paulson reported in The Journal of the American Medical
Association that women over 50 are just as likely to conceive and deliver
a baby with donor eggs as younger women are.
Bershak says she and Cook requested only that the egg donor have light
eyes like they do and be of medium height. The eggs were fertilized with
Cook's sperm and transferred into Bershak's uterus. She became pregnant
on their first attempt, which cost $16,000. Except for morning sickness
and heartburn, Bershak says, she had an uneventful pregnancy. When drugs
failed to induce labor, Sarah was delivered by C-section.
Blonde and blue-eyed, Sarah entered kindergarten at age 4 and has an IQ
of 155, says her proud mother. Now a second-grader at a $12,000-a-year
private school, she has won two piano competitions.
After 41 years in the workplace, Bershak retired from teaching in August
to become a full-time mom, a luxury many younger women can't afford. "I
was pretty much alone as a kid," Bershak says. "My mother worked two
jobs."
And along came Auriel
Zantua had been focused on her career since having a miscarriage shortly
after marrying her second husband, George, at age 44. He is six years
older and has a grown son from a previous marriage.
Zantua, of Tacoma, Wash., never considered having children with her first
husband. "It wasn't the right relationship," she says.
At her age, with irregular periods and a history of uterine fibroids,
Zantua figured it was unlikely she would get pregnant again after her
miscarriage, so she never went back to using birth control.
She enrolled in graduate school while continuing to work. "My life was
just speeding by," Zantua says. "I just didn't notice that I didn't have
a period."
She did notice that her waistbands were getting tight, but she thought it
was lack of exercise. Her massage therapist suggested a pregnancy test.
"I said, 'You've got to be kidding,' " Zantua recalls. Still, she made an
appointment at her HMO, where tests revealed she was five months'
pregnant. The rest of her pregnancy was uneventful, and, because of
previous surgery for fibroids, Auriel was delivered by C-section Aug. 1,
2001.
After Auriel's birth, Zantua, who now works on special projects at a
community college, changed jobs so she could alternate between
telecommuting and taking her daughter to work.
"I want to be around to see her on her feet," Zantua says. "Not only do I
want to live to be 100, but I don't want her to look at me and think
she's got an old mother."
Caine
--
She said her initial thought when she saw her son the first time, was a
"cow thought." "I knew I would follow him throughout the rest of his
life." MooCow
MyYeloC5
>But she's not going to apologize for bringing twins
>into the world at age 55. "They've got life, and they wouldn't have had
>life," she says.
I've been lurking here for a little while, but had to "come out" to say that
this has got to be the most idiotic, clapped up reason to sprog that I have
ever heard! No shit they wouldn't have had life! And do you really think that
they would have known they weren't going to be born????
"They've got more advantages than many, many kids."
Yeah, maybe one of their "advantages" will be getting to change their mother's
diapers when they're teenagers.
Caine
heli...@yadtel.net says...
> Caine wrote:
>
> > A wrinkle on motherhood
>
> *feh* Here I was admiring an article in my latest motorcycle magazine.
> A 71 year old woman talks about riding motorcycles. Owing to her age,
> "I can tour only 300 miles per day." [heh. 300 miles/day is about my
> limit and I'm less than 30 years younger] A picture shows a very fit
> senior; with her helmet on she could pass for a woman in her 20s.
>
> When these new moos are that age, they'll be dealing with snarling
> teenagers or college-bound kids. Sucks to be them.
>
>
Heh, that's assuming they'll still be alive. I'd consider a motorcycle
to be good motivation for staying fit, both mentally and physically,
whereas if I had sprog at that age, it would seem to be more of a
motivation for early death.
Caelan
> A wrinkle on motherhood
>
> By Rita Rubin, USA TODAY
>
> The hospital's breastfeeding consultant did a double take when she met
> Morgan Zantua, who had just given birth to her daughter, Auriel.
>
> "It isn't a typo. You are 51 and not 15," the consultant said.
>
> By then, Zantua says, she was used to such reactions. Her mother's
> response to the news that her eldest was pregnant is unprintable, Zantua
> says with a laugh, although "she'll deny what she actually said."
<snip gramma moo blather>
I was born (concieved sans IVF, thank you very much) when my mother
was 34 and my father 36. My brother was born 4 years later. My parents
were too old to keep up with us although they did their best. When I
was 10 I was saddened by the fact that ALL my friend's parents were
either in their late 30s or celebrating their 40th birthdays and MY
parents were celebrating their 50th! My father *retired* when I was
still a sophomore in highschool. My mother passed away at age 56 when
I was 22 and my brother 17. His graduation was June 24th and she died
July 20 of 2000. I no longer have a mother and my father will likely
be gone when I am in my 30s or 40s. My brother was so traumatized that
mom was gone so early in his life that went into a severe depression.
He dropped out of college his first semester and currently lives on
his friend's couch and works 10 hours a week for minimum wage. Don't
these elderly Moos think of how *brutal* it will be when they can't
run around and play with their child? Or how that child will feel when
they are burdened with looking after a senior mother in their late
teens while their friends' parents are still only early middle aged?
What about 51 year old moo? What if she dies at the same age as my
mother did, leaving a 5 year old alone? It's disgusting. I can't
believe anyone would inflict this willingly on a child just to satisfy
their selfish urge to procreate. If there is a form of child abuse,
this is it.
Caelan. Been there, done that.
Jill
I would agree with you on that point, but as you well know its all
about what the Moo's & Dud's want NEVER about what is best for the
resulting child. I cannot understand why the child's welfare isn't
given any thought, yet if these oldies were trying to adopt it would
be a totally different story.
Jill (Childfree in Scotland)
IleneB
<alecon...@btinet.Snipnet> wrote:
> But she's not going to apologize for bringing twins
> into the world at age 55. "They've got life, and they wouldn't have had
> life," she says. "They've got more advantages than many, many kids."
You mean like an advantage over dead kids? Huh?
Oh. How magnanimous it was of her to give these two life. Two lives
that didn't need to be created for any reason except her "I want
memememememe." Gee, there's so many zillions of sperm and eggs drifting
about the cosmos, not having been joined in a petri dish and shot up
into some old chick, not having life, not being given life! Lady,
there's *work* to do!
I know "breeder logic" is an oxymoron, but this is special.
Ilene B
Doom & Gloom Dave
"Caine" <alecon...@btinet.Snipnet> wrote in message
news:MPG.189e395b8...@news.btinet.net...
>
>
> By Rita Rubin, USA TODAY
>
>
>
> The notion of women becoming mothers at an age when many are already
> grandmothers has sparked a debate disproportionate to their small number.
> Naysayers question whether it is fair to saddle children with mothers who
> may not live to see them graduate from college. Yet, men who father
> - are more likely to attract slaps on the back than raised eyebrows.
>
Oh really Ms. Rubin? In my circle which includes lots of breeders both
Quinn and Randall fathering children at their advanced ages met with nothing
but disgust and a loss of respect for them both. Perhaps your friends think
the idea of a 70 year old satyr is endearing, but that speaks more to the
company you keep than the reality of the public's opinion. Even in a
lower-middle class, testosterone laden steel processing plant where one
might stereotypically thing the opinion would be "Alright for the old guy,
he got some", the guys opinions were "WTF is wrong with them having kids at
that age, they'll be dead before it's out of school."
Veronique
> Caine <alecon...@btinet.Snipnet> wrote in message news:<MPG.189e395b8...@news.btinet.net>...
> > A wrinkle on motherhood
> >
> > By Rita Rubin, USA TODAY
> >
> > The hospital's breastfeeding consultant did a double take when she met
> > Morgan Zantua, who had just given birth to her daughter, Auriel.
> >
> > "It isn't a typo. You are 51 and not 15," the consultant said.
> >
> > By then, Zantua says, she was used to such reactions. Her mother's
> > response to the news that her eldest was pregnant is unprintable, Zantua
> > says with a laugh, although "she'll deny what she actually said."
>
> <snip gramma moo blather>
> ... What if she dies at the same age as my
> mother did, leaving a 5 year old alone? It's disgusting. I can't
> believe anyone would inflict this willingly on a child just to satisfy
> their selfish urge to procreate. If there is a form of child abuse,
> this is it.
>
> Caelan. Been there, done that.
My mother's parents both died on the same day, separately, of heart
failure. Her mother was 49, my mom was 19, her younger sister 15.
Difficult enough to lose a parent when one is in one's teens, how much
more difficult would it have been if my mom had been eight or ten?
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Love will get you like a case of anthrax.
Terrie Strike
>
> Even in a
>lower-middle class, testosterone laden steel processing plant where one
>might stereotypically thing the opinion would be "Alright for the old guy,
>he got some", the guys opinions were "WTF is wrong with them having kids at
>that age, they'll be dead before it's out of school."
Heck, in some of these cases, they'll be dead before it's out of diapers.
-Terrie
Toth's Scribe
> was 34 and my father 36.
Gotta weigh in on the other side - my mother was 32, my father was
30something, and I was hell on wheels in overdrive to raise. My folks
managed to keep up, even when it was probably in their best interests
to darwinize me ASAP.
They're in their 70s now and still pretty perky. They don't travel as
much as they used to, nor as long, and Mother has stopped making
nostalgic noises about anybody giving her grandchildren. (When faced
with trenchant children and the urge to have grands, she quite
practically adopted a couple neighborhood kids as step-grandchildren,
an arrangement I endorse for just about anyone.)
So parents can have a child in the 30s and it's not that much "too
late." The 40s and after, however! That comes under the same "What
were you THINKING?!" heading as deliberately having a child while
terminally ill - what is going to happen to that kid, and why is it
being knowingly subjected to the forces of fate?
T's Scribe
Delain
>
> By Rita Rubin, USA TODAY
>
> 50s who are becoming first-time mothers. She is a breathtakingly rare
> example of a woman who conceived without medical help at an age when the
> average woman is postmenopausal.
My mother, had she not had a tubal fifteen years ago (the gyn refused
to prescribe her the pill when she turned 40), would be one of those
breathtakingly rare women. At age 55, she is _still_ waiting to begin
menopause. She's not at all happy about this. I hope it's not
hereditary, but if it is, my two-year-old tubal is the best thing I
ever bought for myself!
nokomis
Maybe a FOAK, but when is menopause these days? I thought fifty-something
was normal (my mom's in the middle of both menopause and her fifties as
I type, sadly one of my only data points on the issue)?
-valerie (spring chicken)
nok...@tdl.com
IleneB
wrote:
> but when is menopause these days?
It's considered a process, not a specific point. One's hormonal supply
starts to decrease before any actual signs appear. Overall, in the
U.S., I think the beginning phase is considered generally late 40s and
goes on for roughly ten-some years. It's officially menopause when
periods genuinely cease, not are skimpy/erratic.
And I better land there sooner not later because I am sick to death of
monthly pain for 38 years now for a stupid inefficient and gucky
process that has no value or use whatsoever to me. After all, my doc
might get tired of giving me the Percocet, and I had to stop taking BC
pills because of blood pressure/age.
A stupid design. Just as dumb as erections being optional.
Ilene B
Caine
says...
menopause? I started when I was 9.5, and was completely done with
menopause before I hit 40.
Beth Cole
>
> Is starting menstruation very young have anything to do with early
> menopause? I started when I was 9.5, and was completely done with
> menopause before I hit 40.
>
> Caine
::reaching back to grade school & junior high "health" films::
What we were always told was that what was usual is the earlier you
start, the later you finish. This disturbed a classmate greatly, who
started a few days after her ninth birthday.
Beth
--
"Be bold, be bold, and everywhere be bold." -- Edmund Spenser
our home page: http://www.IsleOfSky.net
Caine
eac...@amber.emporia.edu says...
> Caine wrote:
> >
> > Is starting menstruation very young have anything to do with early
> > menopause? I started when I was 9.5, and was completely done with
> > menopause before I hit 40.
> >
> > Caine
>
> ::reaching back to grade school & junior high "health" films::
>
> What we were always told was that what was usual is the earlier you
> start, the later you finish. This disturbed a classmate greatly, who
> started a few days after her ninth birthday.
>
> Beth
>
>
the menopause process until they were over 50, and all of them started in
their early teens.
nokomis
>
>In article <b1543...@enews3.newsguy.com>, nokomis <nok...@tdl.com>
>wrote:
>
>> but when is menopause these days?
>
>It's considered a process, not a specific point.
Well, that's true, my mom's been milking it as an excuse for some time now. :)
I just didn't think that it was that common to be completely infertile by
forty-something as the original article suggested. Thought it was more like
fifty-something.
Might be time to get myself a newer edition of "Our Bodies, Ourselves" and get
reading up on these things before being a Genuine Grown-Up catches up with me.
-valerie (not handling this thirtysomething thing all that well)
nok...@tdl.com
Veronique
I have heard (counter-intuitively) that the earlier one begins
menstruating, the later one enters menopause.
V., from a long line of women who 'paused in their mid-50s
Delain
> On 27 Jan 2003 18:23:03 -0800, Delain <mistres...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Caine <alecon...@btinet.Snipnet> wrote in message news:<MPG.189e395b8...@news.btinet.net>...
> >> A wrinkle on motherhood
> >>
> >> By Rita Rubin, USA TODAY
> >>
> >> average woman is postmenopausal.
> >
> >menopause. She's not at all happy about this. I hope it's not
> >hereditary, but if it is, my two-year-old tubal is the best thing I
> >ever bought for myself!
>
> Maybe a FOAK, but when is menopause these days? I thought fifty-something
> was normal (my mom's in the middle of both menopause and her fifties as
> I type, sadly one of my only data points on the issue)?
>
at fifty (making my mom five years late). My roommate's mom finished
it at 48, and it looks like his sister will start early too--she's
perimenopausal (whatever that is) at a mere 36. Anyone else have more
recent information?
Shel
wrote:
>> Maybe a FOAK, but when is menopause these days? I thought fifty-something
>> was normal (my mom's in the middle of both menopause and her fifties as
>> I type, sadly one of my only data points on the issue)?
>>
>I seem to remember reading in a sex ed. class that most women started
>at fifty (making my mom five years late). My roommate's mom finished
>it at 48, and it looks like his sister will start early too--she's
>perimenopausal (whatever that is) at a mere 36. Anyone else have more
>recent information?
Menopause is the complete cessation of menses. Perimenopause, the
process of getting there, is typically a lengthy process of six to ten
years. Women usually begin the hormone changes of perimenopause in
their late thirties or early forties. I say "typically" and "usually"
because the onset, duration, and symptoms of perimenopause vary widely
among women.
That's the current scoop, anyway.
--
Shel
IleneB
<alecon...@btinet.Snipnet> wrote:
> Is starting menstruation very young have anything to do with early
> menopause?
Not that I know of. Although it would make sense- to "only" have the
annoyance for some set number of years. I started at 11 and am still
stuck with it.
Ilene B
Catwoman
> Menopause is the complete cessation of menses. Perimenopause, the
> process of getting there, is typically a lengthy process of six to ten
> years. Women usually begin the hormone changes of perimenopause in
> their late thirties or early forties. I say "typically" and "usually"
> because the onset, duration, and symptoms of perimenopause vary widely
> among women.
That's for sure. I started having the first minor symptoms in my
late 30's, and am still going with peri.
Bleh.
dg
--
send real mail to diana at wet ware dot com - remove obvious spaces
Morgan Zantua
It is difficult to make broad statements about being an older parent. We have the values of early baby boomers and were brought up with a strong work ethic. Auriel has been to Africa and is well traveled. She also worked to help pay for part of her "J-term" adventures. I have seen parents of all ages not preparing their children for a productive life, or considering what is best for their children. Age has little to do with it. Children's welfare and providing a loving family, the skills to succeed, the list goes on. A parent's age is not the issue. We must have a license to drive a car, but there are no guidelines, licenses, or in most cases, 'training' or requirements to be a parent. The most eloquent advice on parenting was published in 1923 by Kahlil Gilbran in his edition of 23 poetic essays in THE PROPHET. Read his essay on children...
I sincerely doubt anyone will notice my post, but if you do and you are a parent, give them unconditional love, guidance and model how to be a compassionate, contributing, and responsible member of society.