Wireless (Bluetooth) possibilities using included USB ports

[Eiríkr]

Hello all --

I'm looking into the ways in which I might make my Alphagrip wireless,
now that batteries and other components are so much smaller. As best
I can tell, this would require two items:

1. Power supply
2. Bluetooth adapter

For 1, I've found things like this at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-Instant-Charger-Lithium-universal/dp/B002FU6KF2/

And for 2, there are numerous tiny Bluetooth adapters, such as this:

http://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-Bluetooth-Micro-Adapter-GBU421/dp/B0018O9JIG/


So my questions are:

* Has anyone done this before?
* Can anyone tell me how the two USB ports on the Alphagrip work? Can
I plug the power pack into one USB port and the Bluetooth adapter into
the other? Does it matter which device is plugged into which port?

Any advice or even anecdotes would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

-- Erik Anderson

[Doug Sims]

I was very interested in this when I first got my alphagrip. However, the biggest problem with a simple solution like that is the difference between USB host and USB device. The alphagrip only acts as a device, it can't act as a host (which is require for a BT adapter to work). It would need a microprocessor on board to translate the key presses into USB signals before they were sent out over BT.
I think the best solution to this problem right now would be to get an arduino microprocessor with a BT shield (i.e. adapter) and use it as the power supply /USB host, that would also transmit the wireless BT signals to a receiver on your computer. The arduino has USB built in to it.
Fyi, I have even tried this by disassembling a wireless mouse and stuffing it inside of the AG. It didn't work :(.

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[Mike Willner]

I tried using a wireless USB kit sold by Cables Unlimited - an older version of this: http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Unlimited-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver/dp/B0036VNZHA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308928589&sr=8-1

 

Unfortunately, the wireless USB transmitter had to plugged into a docking station, which connected via USB to the AlphaGrip, but also had to be plugged into an electrical outlet. So my AlphaGrip was wireless from the transmitter to my computer, but it was wired to the base station, which in turn was wired to the wall. Now, if you could combine the wireless USB transmitter and its docking station with a battery, you could have a wireless AlphaGrip.

---

From: Doug Sims <wdsi...@gmail.com>
To: alph...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, June 23, 2011 10:36:39 PM
Subject: Re: [alphagrip] Wireless (Bluetooth) possibilities using included USB ports

[Matthew Jordan]

Is that base in that cables unlimited thing just for power? Because if that's all it does couldn't you take the dongle out, attach it to the alphagrip with this http://www.amazon.com/USB-Adapter-Type-Female-Male/dp/B000AA2SMS and then wire up a 5V power source to the power wires?

[Matthew Jordan]

Here: http://www.bixnet.com/usbbaboxc4aa.html.

[Mike Willner]

I tried connecting the transmitter to a Duracell instant charger similar to the one suggested by Erik, but it didn't work, so I assumed the base did more than just provide power. On the other hand, I didn't connect the transmitter to the AlphaGrip with the adapter you suggested... I connected it directly into the USB port on the AlphaGrip that connects to the AlphaGrip's internal USB hub.

---

From: Matthew Jordan <bonem...@gmail.com>
To: alph...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 10:51:24 AM

[Matthew Jordan]

Ok, so, to sum up, will the alphagrip accept power from that extra usb port? If so, it would be pretty simple actually to use the cables unlimited wireless usb transmitter receiver plus a USB A Female to USB B Male adapter (provided the base simply provides power) and the AA Usb power supply to make it wireless. If you were willing to gut the device and get some of those energizer induction batteries they have for the wii remotes http://www.amazon.com/Wii-Energizer-Panel-Induction-Charger-Nintendo/dp/B0027IS82K/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1308931859&sr=1-1 you could even get some batteries in there that would recharge via induction. So you could put them inside and charge via the energizer induction mat.

If it you could not power it via the extra port, could you maybe wire the power into the USB A Female to USB B Male adapter on the correct pinouts somehow so that it would provide power to the transmitter and the alphagrip?

[Eiríkr]

Hey there Mike --

As the designer/creator of the Alphagrip :), can you confirm Doug's
analysis here?

> However, the
> biggest problem with a simple solution like that is the difference between
> USB host and USB device. The alphagrip only acts as a device, it can't act
> as a host (which is require for a BT adapter to work). It would need a
> microprocessor on board to translate the key presses into USB signals before
> they were sent out over BT.

I'm interested enough in this issue to start seriously looking into
it, but I don't know a lot about USB, USB hosts/devices, how power via
USB works, etc, and that'll take some time to read up on. Any head
start that folks here on the list could give me would be most
welcome. :D

Cheers,

-- Erik Anderson

[Doug Sims]

The device that Mike linked is a commercial product that does what I was suggesting. The disadvantage as Mike mentioned is that you need to be plugged into the wall.
USB power is simple, so this would be easy to solve. Pins 1 and 4 provide 5 volts (with one of them being ground) for devices requiring power. Pins 2 & 3 are the data pins.

On Jun 24, 2011 1:25 PM, "Eiríkr" <erikan...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Matthew Jordan]

Right, I just didn't know if you supplied the power via the Type A female connector if it would power the alphagrip and a device plugged into the Type B connector. If it does then no big deal (and it would let you avoid that base that plugged into the wall).

[Mike W]

Hey Erik,

Given that you have expressed an interest in "seriously looking into"
making your AlphaGrip wireless, and given that I am not nearly as
technologically astute as you (or anyone else participating in this
discussion, for that matter), how about I send you the wireless USB
adapter set, the Duracell rechargeable battery with USB ports, and a
used AlphaGrip with which to experiment.

Mike

[Sisyphus]

The keyboard will only use a very small fraction of the WUSB bandwidth. So it is not necessary to use WUSB for this kind of devices. Moreover, the high power consumption of WUSB chipset renders WUSB the worst choice in all options for wireless version of the AlphaGrip: IR, bluetooth, etc.

However, I still can not find any USB to bluetooth adapters. The usual USB-bluetooth dongles only act as host. The market is also very small for USB-bluetooth adapters, because not many devices deserve an additional USB-bluetooth adapter. There are plenty of cheap bluetooth enabled keyboards, microphones, headsets out there. For other USB devices (storage, display, modem, router, etc.) the bandwidths of bluetooth are often too small.

Unfortunately, the Cable Unlimited also went bankrupt during 2011... So even WUSB is not an option now.

More puzzling is why AlphaGrip did not embed bluetooth function into its products at the first place. It is not a big technical challenge, is it?

[Sisyphus]

This is the disadvantage of WUSB. The WUSB is never popular and already steps one of his leg into his cemetery because of its power consumption. They can NOT provide a reasonable on-chip solution with decent energy efficiency.

So most of batteries with proper size and weight might never provide enough battery life for the WUSB adapter.

[Mikhail Ivanov]

Hi to all!

I think this device could be a solution:
Bluetooth Keyboard Adapter « Handheld Scientific, Inc.

Has anyone tried?

[My2Sense]

Seems like it should work, as long as the alphagrip does not require more than the stated "max current 120mA"

[Mike W]

 

 

I apologize. I thought I posted this reply over a month ago.

 

"That's a problem. The manufacturer's specs for the AlphaGrip indicate, "Operating Current - Max 500mA""

[Yann Vernier]

That's a little misleading. The power fed into the alphagrip, per the USB spec, must be no more than 500mA. Any device can expect 100mA to be available, so the downstream USB port consumes at least that much of the power budget. Internally, the alphagrip has a trackball, a keyboard microcontroller, a two port USB hub, and four indicator LEDs. I expect it will stay under the 120mA no problem as long as you have nothing plugged into its downstream USB port, and do not light all LEDs at the same time. Each LED draws about 10mA on its own, which can be modified by increasing the values of the series resistors; they'll likely show just as well (or poorly) at 2mA. While I haven't measured the alphagrip's power consumption, a wireless optical mouse I tried got away with 30-40mA, so expecting the alphagrip not to draw three times as much is not unreasonable.

[Mike W]

Thanks, Yann. That sounds good. But I also received this message from the company:  "... I have looked at your iGrip product... If I understand correctly, it contains a USB hub with a keyboard and mouse hanging on the downstream. Unfortunately this will not work with our keyboard adapter which does not support USB hub... "

Now, that does not sound good.