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Sandrine Willert
Sib. 7.1: Chord symbols as system text rather than staff text - any ideas?
Posted by pianoleo - 10 Apr 02:17PM Hide picture Hi all,
I work an awful lot with "songs" - one or more vocal staves plus piano (I essentially construct piano vocal scores for shows). In this kind of music it's absolutely standard to have chord symbols above the top line of each system.
My problem is this: I hide empty staves wherever possible. It may be that when I start typing something up it looks like 5 bars to a system is going to work, but half way through the job I realise that 4 bars to a system is better, for example. The minute I start fiddling with system breaks (or speed through it with Auto Breaks or the fantastic Make Layout Uniform plugin) all of my chord symbols change staves, as if there's nothing vocal going on they've been sitting above the piano grand sta(ff/ve).
Sibelius (7) won't let me copy the Chord Symbol text style as a System Text style, and it won't let me open two text style dialog boxes so I can't copy from one to another manually. I suppose I could copy all the variables into a notebook from the dialog and back out again (or screenshot or whatever) but will Sibelius let me use chord symbols in a system font, and then, for example, if I want to globally interact with them, will Filter->Chord Symbols work with the new "dummy" chord text style?
Anybody tried this before? I could see it saving me a significant amount of time over the coming weeks/months/years but it's going to take me a while to set it up!
Cheers in advance. Back to top Allthreads Re: Sib. 7.1: Chord symbols as system text rather than staff text - any ideas?
Posted by Jesper Elén - 10 Apr 03:16PM Hide picture I had the same thought a few days ago.
Jesper Back to top Allthreads Re: Sib. 7.1: Chord symbols as system text rather than staff text - any ideas?
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 10 Apr 05:15PM (edited 11 Apr 06:08AM) Hide picture To start with, Create Chord Symbols in Sib 6 and later normally creates Chord Symbol objects which are different from Text objects, and so there is no way to make these system attached objects.
So if you want to accomplish something like this, and you don't want to simply copy the chord symbols onto every staff (which should do the job, and is what I always do), then you are going to have to use text objects for your chord symbols. And system text objects at that.
These new system text objects will not be picked up with Filter > Chord Symbols. You can use the Advanced Filter to choose the text style and filter on that, or if you are ambitious you could write a filtering plugin for your text style.
So create a new system text style - call it System Chord Symbols, maybe. Base it on some system text that stays on the staff. Make it transposable and not playable so it will not mess with playback. Have it use a chord symbol font, and see how that works.
If you can get it to transpose and show up on the staves you want (Default Positions) then figure out a way to filter for it and it might work.
(I have not actually tried this!)
(Edit: 3 other points)
1. A system text may be made transposable but just selecting a staff will not pick them up, so explicitly select them if they need to transpose.
2. If you want a filter, look at the downloadable Custom System Filter, which will filter system Tempo text by default but which is designed to be easily modified, and could be modified to find your text style.
3. I attach a score that uses a system text style and a chord font just as an example.
--
Bob
Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2012.
I am an experienced Sibelius user, but am not affiliated with Sibelius Software.
Sib Plugin downloads: www.sibelius.com/download/plugins (see How to Install Plugins; use Vista for Windows 7)
Alphabetical plugin lists: www.bobzawalich.com/DownloadPagePlugins.htm, www.bobzawalich.com/Sib6ShippingPlugins.htm Attachment System Chord Symbol.sib (37K) Back to top Allthreads Re: Sib. 7.1: Chord symbols as system text rather than staff text - any ideas?
Posted by Richard Vitale - 10 Apr 05:30PM Hide picture I do an awful lot of formatting with Chord Symbols and my chord symbols don't change staves unless I format them that way.
Are your chord symbols attached to slash notes as in the screenshot?
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Richie Vitale-Sib 7.1.2 User
iMac 2.66 Ghz Intel/Lion
4 GB RAM
Attachment Chord Symbols.png (54K) Back to top Allthreads Re: Sib. 7.1: Chord symbols as system text rather than staff text - any ideas?
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 10 Apr 05:19PM Hide picture >My problem is this: I hide empty staves wherever possible. It may be that when I start typing something up it looks like 5 bars to a system is going to work, but half way through the job I realise that 4 bars to a system is better, for example. The minute I start fiddling with system breaks (or speed through it with Auto Breaks or the fantastic Make Layout Uniform plugin) all of my chord symbols change staves, as if there's nothing vocal going on they've been sitting above the piano grand sta(ffve)
This makes no sense to me. If the chord symbols are attached to a staff, they should remain attached to that staff regardless of how you change the breaks at the ends of bars. So something else is happening here. Check to be sure the attachment points are to the correct staff, and to ensure this is the case, always add chord symbols by selecting a note first, and then using ctrl/cmnd K to add the chord symbol, rather than positioning the symbols with a mouse.
Can you post a bit of a score and give a sequence of steps that would show the chords changing staves? We might be able to figure out what is going on, but what you describe should never happen.
--
Bob
Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2012.
I am an experienced Sibelius user, but am not affiliated with Sibelius Software.
Sib Plugin downloads: www.sibelius.com/download/plugins (see How to Install Plugins; use Vista for Windows 7)
Alphabetical plugin lists: www.bobzawalich.com/DownloadPagePlugins.htm, www.bobzawalich.com/Sib6ShippingPlugins.htm Back to top Allthreads Re: Sib. 7.1: Chord symbols as system text rather than staff text - any ideas?
Posted by pianoleo - 12 Apr 10:33PM (edited 12 Apr 10:35PM) Hide picture Hi guys,
Sorry for ignoring you all!
Bob, Richie - I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. Let me clarify:
Sibelius isn't doing anything it shouldn't be doing. Chord symbols do indeed stay attached to whichever staff I've attached them to (using Cmd-K and often typing in a whole bunch at a time using Space or Tab). My problem is that what I WANT is for Sibelius to show chord symbols above the top staff of each system. Given some staves are sometimes hidden, the top staff isn't necessarily the same throughout the piece/song/movement. As there doesn't seem to be a system chord text style, I have to position my chord symbols manually, system by system, to make sure they are above whatever the top line currently is.
I've attached a really awful screenshot to try to explain. The only difference between the left and right windows is that I've changed the breaks in the right screen - the bar numbers should explain what I've changed and the highlight should explain why it irritates me that Sibelius won't give me a System Text Style for Chord Symbols.
Bob, thanks for your attached Sib file. I'll play around with it shortly!
P.S. Of course there's supposed to be an F Major key signature - I copied and pasted into a new score to demonstrate the problem and forgot the key signature! Attachment Screen Shot 2012-04-12 at 23.30.33.png (278K) Back to top Allthreads Re: Sib. 7.1: Chord symbols as system text rather than staff text - any ideas?
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 12 Apr 11:26PM Hide picture I suspect that if you try to use the system text for chord symbols if will create as many problems as it solves, but it might be worth a try. It does appear to keep the at the top even if staves disappear (if you change the Vertical Positioning setting for the text style to be above the top staff, rather than on every staff, as I have it in my example).
If you use system text, then watch for it when you transpose, and you will have to figure out your own filter or use the Advanced Filter.
If I were doing this, and I know that the top staff was going to come and go, I might consider putting all the chord symbols on a different staff, that would never go away, like the top of the piano staff.
If that is not possible, then I might wait to put in chord symbols until the page layout is done and then I could add then so that they are all on the top.
Even with what you have now, all you really need to do to get that the previous point is move the symbols that are on the wrong staff to the staff you want.
Anyway, I hope you find a way to make it work. Good luck.
--
Bob
Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2012.
I am an experienced Sibelius user, but am not affiliated with Sibelius Software.
Sib Plugin downloads: www.sibelius.com/download/plugins (see How to Install Plugins; use Vista for Windows 7)
Alphabetical plugin lists: www.bobzawalich.com/DownloadPagePlugins.htm, www.bobzawalich.com/Sib6ShippingPlugins.htm Back to top Allthreads