Book list
Steve
This is a partial list.. mostly to do with permaculture related
subjects, but with some digressions - if you know me, you'll know
that's a completely normal part of conversation with me, and this is
basically a conversation I'm starting.
You should feel free to write me with questions or thoughts on any of
these books/topics.
Peace and love,
Steve
(p.s. - I guess I'd better add "Home Economics" by Wendell Berry to the list..)
--
"In the face of all-annihilating weapons, the natural next step may be
the use of no weapons. It may be that the only possibly effective
defense against the ultimate weapon is no weapon at all."
~ Wendell Berry, in '84 (from the essay "Property, Patriotism and
National Defense" as included in the book "Home Economics")
M-L
permalove <perm...@logic.bm>, perm...@gmail.com put these thoughts
to the keyboard and sent:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>This is a partial list.. mostly to do with permaculture related
>subjects, but with some digressions - if you know me, you'll know
>that's a completely normal part of conversation with me, and this is
>basically a conversation I'm starting.
>
>You should feel free to write me with questions or thoughts on any of
>these books/topics.
>
>Peace and love,
>
>Steve
Hello Steve,
That's an impressive list of books and worthy of a great deal of
discussion.
I have to admit to reading the Permaculture [1&2] books by David
Holmgren and Bill Mollison. Very interesting but even though there was
a desert like section contained in book 2 I think. It wasn't very
practical. The olive trees in rock hollows didn't allow for camels
eating the tree and so on.
I think it would be very difficult to write a book that takes most
things into consideration, the wider view. The stories/experience in our
situation are almost too numerous to mention. Not only changing climatic
conditions, also rabbits, birds and to a certain degree wildlife.
Trying to work in with nature really means times of feasts and famine,
which is natural; which is defrayed by having some money to fill in the
troughs which is unnatural.
So this reply is really just about permaculture, [tunnel vision
mode] which works better where the climate is kinder and of course it's
where this kinder climate exists that first had people flocking to it
in the 60's and 70's, here in Oz at least. Being a bit of a masochist
and with no money at all, thought that I might try living in the
"tougher country". :-) It was described a bit worse than that by the
locals when sought land here. I think we survive and live and learn,
just barely. Not for everyone I think, but never boring. [laughing]
Your library is interesting and extensive. I have always believed
that you can learn a great deal about a person from the books they
read. All the books you mention are worthy of discussion, especially
with regard to what you took from them, and from that, what you live by.
Really great. Will be part of this discussion gladly. So maybe start a
subject line or a book/s on that, and I'll participate. It will be
interesting to compare the two climates. Florida? is a lot different
from The mountains of Victoria I think? But I really have no idea.
Be well,
Charlie
--
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***********************************************
Even a fool knows that he cannot touch the stars, but it doesn't stop a
wise man from trying. _______________Harry Anderson
***********************************************
Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic
_______________________________________________
Steve
Thanks for your response.
I think we should go ahead and add xeriscaping (dryland plant culture)
to the permaculture portfolio.. Mollison does mention it in the
designer's manual, I think. Also, Sepp Holzer of Austria has been
farming since the early '60s and has done some pretty interesting
stuff with microclimates in alpine territory.
Definitely, permaculture (as with Fukuoka's natural farming) has been
accused of not fitting with harsher climates, but Mollison is
certainly on record saying that it is the students of permaculture
courses who will have to go back and create systems based on the
resources available to them in their own locality, thereby creating
all-new examples of permaculture.
I would liken your situation to this type of adaptation, Charlie..
Maybe you're not reinventing the wheel, but you're certainly operating
with an open mind and responding to the necessities of your
surroundings. I have often thought that if you wrote some sort of
autobiography or other record it would be very valuable.. certainly
for people attempting to make a go of it in a similar climate. Your
journals on treetribe and all-trees are very valuable in that sense,
too.
We're actually in Bermuda.. a cluster of islands in the Atlantic
ocean.. so probably pretty far from your climate.
I would love to open up a thread.. I will meditate on that.. Have
you read any Stephen Harrod Buhner? He's an herbalist, among other
things.. advocates wild foods and foraging, etc. One link I wanted to
put on the list was Daniel Vitalis' interview with Buhner (4 parts..
on you tube). I like his worldview.
Alright, Charlie, I hope you have a great day.
Peace,
Steve.
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M-L
alltrees-allpeo...@googlegroups.com put these thoughts to
the keyboard and sent:
>Definitely, permaculture (as with Fukuoka's natural farming) has been
>accused of not fitting with harsher climates, but Mollison is
>certainly on record saying that it is the students of permaculture
>courses who will have to go back and create systems based on the
>resources available to them in their own locality, thereby creating
>all-new examples of permaculture.
Hello Steve,
Have just returned from shopping, three hours driving to and from, but
we park the car and walk from shop to shop returning the shopping to
the car each time. Doesn't help the climate a great deal, but maybe a
little and we like walking anyway.
Yes, Bermuda. I knew it was in a place that I imagined was warmer and
wetter?
Fukuoka's one Straw Revolution had was just a little amazing, because
working [just had to stop, because our little, almost 5kg wombat Titch,
had to be kept company while here bedding was shaken out ready to be
washed] with nature was what I wanted to do, knowing that it would not
suit commercial production or making a living from one crop. Not that I
thought the idea of a monoculture of any kind was either
environmentally friendly or sensibly sustainable, and I still hold that
view, along with nomad herders and other things.
It should suit commercial production if we just use and eat when things
are in season as nature intended, but many people love grapes and
mangoes in the middle of winter. Expect them to be available.
Supermarkets and retailers expect a producer who supplies 100 kilogram
of strawberries every week for 8 weeks one year to do so exactly the
same the following year and the one following that etc.. Unnatural. But
I digress.
Our apple trees were just allowed to grow, and like Fukuoka, we
practised a very lazy but productive way of fruit growing. We didn't
need to consider regulated deficit irrigation, because we couldn't
irrigate and nature took care of that task for us. Espalier and other
manufactured frameworks for growing our apples and other fruit was
never considered because it created a demand for manufactured product
like wire, concrete etc., that wasn't environmentally friendly either.
It's difficult to concentrate on something like just fruit growing,
because discussing the trees is fine, but not complete. Adding the
climatic conditions to the discussion does not make it whole, even
adding soil conditions, and pests and beneficial species misses some
things, like timing and requirements of the trees to make whole fruit,
but it starts to get close. The fruit that birds will eat in their
entirety and not sample each on the tree seeking to find the complete
entity to consume to the core.
I will be interested to see what you come up with and hope that others
will join the discussion.
Be well,
Charlie
--
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***********************************************
I expected to see only pink blossoms, But a gentle spring snow has
fallen And the cherry trees are wearing white coats.
................Ryokan (1758-1831)