Canberra Symposium on Treating Repetitive Strain Injuries (Dr Sharan)
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Nick Mellor
May 8, 2012, 3:12:00 PM5/8/12
to AlexTech Mail List
Hi all,
For those of you in Australia, Dr Deepak Sharan is visiting Brisbane
and Canberra in June.
Dr Sharan is an orthopaedic surgeon and a world authority on
Repetitive Strain Injuries. He has given work to Alexander Technique
teachers visiting Bangalore since 2005. He originally had lessons
himself with Joseph Stephens in Kerala.
As a surgeon he appears to be on the conservative side and would
rather use manual therapies, Yoga and AT than surgery to rehabilitate
thousands of patients at the RECOUP hospital in Bangalore. When I was
there he told me he performed 1 carpal tunnel release for every 300
candidate cases. Carpal tunnel release (partly severing the tendon in
the wrist) is still a common treatment for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, a
Repetitive Strain Injury.
He's also an ergonomic pioneer in India (I don't know what his
ergonomic training is) and has been instrumental in changing the law
in Kerala, South India so that children there no longer carry heavy
satchels to school.
His symposium in Canberra should be well worth attending if you can.
Best wishes,
Nick
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Symposium on "Treating RSI Successfully" by Dr. Deepak
Sharan at Canberra, Australia
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 21:44:05 +0530
From: Dr. Deepak Sharan <drdeepa...@gmail.com>
To: drdeepa...@yahoo.com
Hi,
This is to let you know that I am visiting Australia later this month
to lecture at a Conference in Brisbane. During my subsequent visit to
Canberra, I have been asked to conduct a symposium on "Treating RSI
Successfully" by the RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the ACT. I
would like to invite you to the event and sincerely hope you can
attend. I also request you to publicise this event to anyone who might
benefit from it.
Date: Tuesday, 5 June 2012
Time: 13:00
Room 9, Griffin Centre, 20 Genge St, Canberra City 2601, Australia
Who should attend? RSI sufferers and others interested in RSI
treatment
How to Register? Please advise attendance to Ann Thompson, Director,
RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the ACT on (02) 6262 5011 or
r...@cyberone.com.au
Cost: Admission is free.
Agenda: 1 hour talk by Dr. Deepak Sharan on his research on RSI,
followed by one on one consultations with Dr. Sharan
This event is organised by RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the
ACT, http://www.rsi.org.au/
About the speaker:
Dr. Deepak Sharan (www.deepaksharan.com) runs the RECOUP
Neuromuskuloskeletal Rehabilitation Centre (www.recoup.in) in
Bangalore (India) which specialises in treating RSI. Hundreds of
International RSI patients have gone to RECOUP for treatment and had
good recovery and return to full time work. This is a valuable
opportunity to hear more about his treatment approach from Dr Sharan.
Dr. Sharan has over 21 years of International clinical experience in
RSI Management and has produced over 300 scientific publications or
conference presentations on RSI, including 20 recent research papers
in peer reviewed, indexed journals published from UK and USA. He leads
a team of over 150 medical professionals that has successfully treated
over 100,000 clients with RSI from 30 countries in the past decade.
Dr. Sharan is an internationally recognised expert in Ergonomics and
RSI, having developed his own assessment and treatment approach called
the SHARAN'S Protocol for RSI and the DEEPAK SHARAN RSI
severity/prognosis scale. Dr. Sharan was the chairperson for the
scientific session on RSI at the World Ergonomics Congress 2009 at
Beijing and the chairperson for Symposium on On-Site RSI Clinics in IT
Companies at ODAM 2011 in South Africa. He presented 15 papers,
special sessions and symposia at the World Ergonomics Congress at
Recife, Brazil in Feb 2012 and chaired 3 sessions on RSI. RECOUP
provides Ergonomics and RSI Consultancy to over 70 major companies,
including Oracle, Texas Instruments, Accenture, Cisco, AMD, Monsanto,
Nokia, McKinsey, Bain, Adobe, British Gas, Cairn, Shell, and
Honeywell.
Regards,
--
Dr. Deepak Sharan
MS Ortho, DNB Ortho, Dip Ortho, M Sc Orthopaedic Engineering (UK), Dip
Orthopaedic & Rehabilitation Technology (UK), Fellow, AACP&DM (USA),
Fellowship in Paediatric Orthopaedics (UK & USA), Certificate in
Ergonomics (Sweden)
Consultant in Orthopaedics, Rehabilitation & Ergonomics, Medical
Director,
RECOUP Neuromusculoskeletal Rehabilitation Centre,
312, 10th Block, Further Extension of Anjanapura Layout, 80 Feet Road,
Bangalore-560062, India
Phone: +91-80-32423424, 64504334, Hotline +91-98451 55449 Fax
+91-11-45823555
Web Sites: http://www.deepaksharan.com (Personal);
http://www.recoup.in (Official) LinkedIn:
http://in.linkedin.com/in/deepaksharan2007 Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/recoup
For those of you in Australia, Dr Deepak Sharan is visiting Brisbane
and Canberra in June.
Dr Sharan is an orthopaedic surgeon and a world authority on
Repetitive Strain Injuries. He has given work to Alexander Technique
teachers visiting Bangalore since 2005. He originally had lessons
himself with Joseph Stephens in Kerala.
As a surgeon he appears to be on the conservative side and would
rather use manual therapies, Yoga and AT than surgery to rehabilitate
thousands of patients at the RECOUP hospital in Bangalore. When I was
there he told me he performed 1 carpal tunnel release for every 300
candidate cases. Carpal tunnel release (partly severing the tendon in
the wrist) is still a common treatment for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, a
Repetitive Strain Injury.
He's also an ergonomic pioneer in India (I don't know what his
ergonomic training is) and has been instrumental in changing the law
in Kerala, South India so that children there no longer carry heavy
satchels to school.
His symposium in Canberra should be well worth attending if you can.
Best wishes,
Nick
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Symposium on "Treating RSI Successfully" by Dr. Deepak
Sharan at Canberra, Australia
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 21:44:05 +0530
From: Dr. Deepak Sharan <drdeepa...@gmail.com>
To: drdeepa...@yahoo.com
Hi,
This is to let you know that I am visiting Australia later this month
to lecture at a Conference in Brisbane. During my subsequent visit to
Canberra, I have been asked to conduct a symposium on "Treating RSI
Successfully" by the RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the ACT. I
would like to invite you to the event and sincerely hope you can
attend. I also request you to publicise this event to anyone who might
benefit from it.
Date: Tuesday, 5 June 2012
Time: 13:00
Room 9, Griffin Centre, 20 Genge St, Canberra City 2601, Australia
Who should attend? RSI sufferers and others interested in RSI
treatment
How to Register? Please advise attendance to Ann Thompson, Director,
RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the ACT on (02) 6262 5011 or
r...@cyberone.com.au
Cost: Admission is free.
Agenda: 1 hour talk by Dr. Deepak Sharan on his research on RSI,
followed by one on one consultations with Dr. Sharan
This event is organised by RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the
ACT, http://www.rsi.org.au/
About the speaker:
Dr. Deepak Sharan (www.deepaksharan.com) runs the RECOUP
Neuromuskuloskeletal Rehabilitation Centre (www.recoup.in) in
Bangalore (India) which specialises in treating RSI. Hundreds of
International RSI patients have gone to RECOUP for treatment and had
good recovery and return to full time work. This is a valuable
opportunity to hear more about his treatment approach from Dr Sharan.
Dr. Sharan has over 21 years of International clinical experience in
RSI Management and has produced over 300 scientific publications or
conference presentations on RSI, including 20 recent research papers
in peer reviewed, indexed journals published from UK and USA. He leads
a team of over 150 medical professionals that has successfully treated
over 100,000 clients with RSI from 30 countries in the past decade.
Dr. Sharan is an internationally recognised expert in Ergonomics and
RSI, having developed his own assessment and treatment approach called
the SHARAN'S Protocol for RSI and the DEEPAK SHARAN RSI
severity/prognosis scale. Dr. Sharan was the chairperson for the
scientific session on RSI at the World Ergonomics Congress 2009 at
Beijing and the chairperson for Symposium on On-Site RSI Clinics in IT
Companies at ODAM 2011 in South Africa. He presented 15 papers,
special sessions and symposia at the World Ergonomics Congress at
Recife, Brazil in Feb 2012 and chaired 3 sessions on RSI. RECOUP
provides Ergonomics and RSI Consultancy to over 70 major companies,
including Oracle, Texas Instruments, Accenture, Cisco, AMD, Monsanto,
Nokia, McKinsey, Bain, Adobe, British Gas, Cairn, Shell, and
Honeywell.
Regards,
--
Dr. Deepak Sharan
MS Ortho, DNB Ortho, Dip Ortho, M Sc Orthopaedic Engineering (UK), Dip
Orthopaedic & Rehabilitation Technology (UK), Fellow, AACP&DM (USA),
Fellowship in Paediatric Orthopaedics (UK & USA), Certificate in
Ergonomics (Sweden)
Consultant in Orthopaedics, Rehabilitation & Ergonomics, Medical
Director,
RECOUP Neuromusculoskeletal Rehabilitation Centre,
312, 10th Block, Further Extension of Anjanapura Layout, 80 Feet Road,
Bangalore-560062, India
Phone: +91-80-32423424, 64504334, Hotline +91-98451 55449 Fax
+91-11-45823555
Web Sites: http://www.deepaksharan.com (Personal);
http://www.recoup.in (Official) LinkedIn:
http://in.linkedin.com/in/deepaksharan2007 Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/recoup
peter
May 15, 2012, 2:12:00 AM5/15/12
to AlexTech Mail List
On the topic of Repetitive Strain Injuries, I imagine that computer
users suffer quite a bit from this, in particular the hand/finger
area, given the often fixed and habitual position of the hand over the
mouse?
Peter
> From: Dr. Deepak Sharan <drdeepaksha...@gmail.com>
> To: drdeepaksha...@yahoo.com
users suffer quite a bit from this, in particular the hand/finger
area, given the often fixed and habitual position of the hand over the
mouse?
Peter
> To: drdeepaksha...@yahoo.com
>
> Hi,
>
> This is to let you know that I am visiting Australia later this month
> to lecture at a Conference in Brisbane. During my subsequent visit to
> Canberra, I have been asked to conduct a symposium on "Treating RSI
> Successfully" by the RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the ACT. I
> would like to invite you to the event and sincerely hope you can
> attend. I also request you to publicise this event to anyone who might
> benefit from it.
>
> Date: Tuesday, 5 June 2012
> Time: 13:00
> Room 9, Griffin Centre, 20 Genge St, Canberra City 2601, Australia
>
> Who should attend? RSI sufferers and others interested in RSI
> treatment
> How to Register? Please advise attendance to Ann Thompson, Director,
> RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the ACT on (02) 6262 5011 or
> r...@cyberone.com.au
> Cost: Admission is free.
> Agenda: 1 hour talk by Dr. Deepak Sharan on his research on RSI,
> followed by one on one consultations with Dr. Sharan
> This event is organised by RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the
> ACT,http://www.rsi.org.au/
> Hi,
>
> This is to let you know that I am visiting Australia later this month
> to lecture at a Conference in Brisbane. During my subsequent visit to
> Canberra, I have been asked to conduct a symposium on "Treating RSI
> Successfully" by the RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the ACT. I
> would like to invite you to the event and sincerely hope you can
> attend. I also request you to publicise this event to anyone who might
> benefit from it.
>
> Date: Tuesday, 5 June 2012
> Time: 13:00
> Room 9, Griffin Centre, 20 Genge St, Canberra City 2601, Australia
>
> Who should attend? RSI sufferers and others interested in RSI
> treatment
> How to Register? Please advise attendance to Ann Thompson, Director,
> RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the ACT on (02) 6262 5011 or
> r...@cyberone.com.au
> Cost: Admission is free.
> Agenda: 1 hour talk by Dr. Deepak Sharan on his research on RSI,
> followed by one on one consultations with Dr. Sharan
> This event is organised by RSI and Overuse Injury Association of the
Keith Bacon
May 15, 2012, 12:26:09 PM5/15/12
to AlexTech Mail List
Hi Peter,
On 15 May 2012 07:12, peter <peter...@iolfree.ie> wrote:
> On the topic of Repetitive Strain Injuries, I imagine that computer
> users suffer quite a bit from this, in particular the hand/finger
> area, given the often fixed and habitual position of the hand over the
> mouse?
Hi Peter,
You are right RSI is a big problem in computing. I suspect one reason
there aren't many old programmers is because so many people get RSI or
some other MSD (Muscular Skeletal Disorder) and leave the industry.
For me the hands forward position combined with pulled in posture and
large amounts of muscle tension was the problem that led to symptoms
of 'Tennis Elbow' and strange tingly feelings around my chest. It was
using the mouse that brought out symptoms more than the keyboard.
Driving also brought out other symptoms.
The huge amount of work ourtourced to India has resulted in lots of
Indian programmers working long hours in poor ergonomic situations and
lots of RSI. Dr Sharan's views were one of things that convinced me I
was on the right course. I have communicated with two doctors in the
west who also have those views and claim good success rates with RSI.
It still astounds me the amount of suffering there is because of a
lack of knowledge in the medical world of AT and other things. I have
met quite a few people who got better from MSD's in the yoga and AT
worlds. I think they all did it by their own investigation and work,
often having suffered badly after following normal medical advice. I
feel very lucky that I found my way out before I suffered too badly
physically.
I have just been through the induction program of my new employer a
large multi-national and there is big emphasis on the risks of RSI and
back ache - the two big problem MSD's that cost industry huge amounts.
There was nothing in there showing any knowledge of AT or any other
mind/body system.
I recall the buddha's claim that ignorance of the true nature of
reality is the cause of much suffering. Western medical science seeing
the true nature of RSI would be a good step! Seeing that the means of
preventing and alleviating it also already exists would be an even
better step!
best wishes,
Keith
On 15 May 2012 07:12, peter <peter...@iolfree.ie> wrote:
> On the topic of Repetitive Strain Injuries, I imagine that computer
> users suffer quite a bit from this, in particular the hand/finger
> area, given the often fixed and habitual position of the hand over the
> mouse?
You are right RSI is a big problem in computing. I suspect one reason
there aren't many old programmers is because so many people get RSI or
some other MSD (Muscular Skeletal Disorder) and leave the industry.
For me the hands forward position combined with pulled in posture and
large amounts of muscle tension was the problem that led to symptoms
of 'Tennis Elbow' and strange tingly feelings around my chest. It was
using the mouse that brought out symptoms more than the keyboard.
Driving also brought out other symptoms.
The huge amount of work ourtourced to India has resulted in lots of
Indian programmers working long hours in poor ergonomic situations and
lots of RSI. Dr Sharan's views were one of things that convinced me I
was on the right course. I have communicated with two doctors in the
west who also have those views and claim good success rates with RSI.
It still astounds me the amount of suffering there is because of a
lack of knowledge in the medical world of AT and other things. I have
met quite a few people who got better from MSD's in the yoga and AT
worlds. I think they all did it by their own investigation and work,
often having suffered badly after following normal medical advice. I
feel very lucky that I found my way out before I suffered too badly
physically.
I have just been through the induction program of my new employer a
large multi-national and there is big emphasis on the risks of RSI and
back ache - the two big problem MSD's that cost industry huge amounts.
There was nothing in there showing any knowledge of AT or any other
mind/body system.
I recall the buddha's claim that ignorance of the true nature of
reality is the cause of much suffering. Western medical science seeing
the true nature of RSI would be a good step! Seeing that the means of
preventing and alleviating it also already exists would be an even
better step!
best wishes,
Keith
peter
May 16, 2012, 2:00:35 AM5/16/12
to AlexTech Mail List
Hi Keith,
The 'plus' side of RSI or some other pain is that it often alerts us
to the fact that something is wrong, that we have become deadened by
habit and forgetfulness. We have become fixed in one position. RSI
pain lets us know that we are doing too much and with too much
effort. The ways of misuse and too much doing are often subtle and
manifold. We have forgotten wholeness and flow. My own experience is
that some pain, as in RSI, can be a necessary reminder to live with
greater awarenss and mindfulness. To live more lightly and more
gracefully in the world in general.
Best Wishes,
Peter
> On 15 May 2012 07:12, peter <peterqu...@iolfree.ie> wrote:> On the topic of Repetitive Strain Injuries, I imagine that computer
The 'plus' side of RSI or some other pain is that it often alerts us
to the fact that something is wrong, that we have become deadened by
habit and forgetfulness. We have become fixed in one position. RSI
pain lets us know that we are doing too much and with too much
effort. The ways of misuse and too much doing are often subtle and
manifold. We have forgotten wholeness and flow. My own experience is
that some pain, as in RSI, can be a necessary reminder to live with
greater awarenss and mindfulness. To live more lightly and more
gracefully in the world in general.
Best Wishes,
Peter
> On 15 May 2012 07:12, peter <peterqu...@iolfree.ie> wrote:> On the topic of Repetitive Strain Injuries, I imagine that computer
Keith Bacon
May 16, 2012, 8:05:16 AM5/16/12
to AlexTech Mail List
Hi Peter,
On 16 May 2012 07:00, peter <peter...@iolfree.ie> wrote:
> The 'plus' side of RSI or some other pain is that it often alerts us
> to the fact that something is wrong,
It sure did for me!
> RSI pain lets us know that we are doing too much and with too much
> effort.
I sort of agree about the effort. There are 2 aspects to that. One is
that we over-tense up when we initiate action and when we try harder.
The other is that we are constantly hindered by working against our
own constant unreleased tension and stuck fascia.
As for doing too much I can work and play on computers for 40 to 50
hours a week with no problems these days. More subtly am I 'doing too
much' time on computers? Maybe but I feel like I need the money!
> that some pain, as in RSI, can be a necessary reminder to live with
> greater awareness and mindfulness.
It seems adults these days have what are often called 'trigger points'
all over the place. They only 'trigger' when they interfere with
nerves and cause pain. I don't know of another name for them though.
When I poked my muscles I found them all over the place. Once my RSI
was greatly lessened I carried on fixing them up as they seemed to me
part of the problems of Sensory Motor Amnesia as stated by FM
Alexander and Thomas Hanna. Also they are involved in faulty
kinesthesia too.
I still like the theory that if your meat flows your mind does too!
> awareness and mindfulness.
Great words - so often said without mentioning 'of what'.
regards
Keith
On 16 May 2012 07:00, peter <peter...@iolfree.ie> wrote:
> The 'plus' side of RSI or some other pain is that it often alerts us
> to the fact that something is wrong,
> RSI pain lets us know that we are doing too much and with too much
> effort.
that we over-tense up when we initiate action and when we try harder.
The other is that we are constantly hindered by working against our
own constant unreleased tension and stuck fascia.
As for doing too much I can work and play on computers for 40 to 50
hours a week with no problems these days. More subtly am I 'doing too
much' time on computers? Maybe but I feel like I need the money!
> that some pain, as in RSI, can be a necessary reminder to live with
It seems adults these days have what are often called 'trigger points'
all over the place. They only 'trigger' when they interfere with
nerves and cause pain. I don't know of another name for them though.
When I poked my muscles I found them all over the place. Once my RSI
was greatly lessened I carried on fixing them up as they seemed to me
part of the problems of Sensory Motor Amnesia as stated by FM
Alexander and Thomas Hanna. Also they are involved in faulty
kinesthesia too.
I still like the theory that if your meat flows your mind does too!
> awareness and mindfulness.
Great words - so often said without mentioning 'of what'.
regards
Keith
peter
May 17, 2012, 4:33:01 AM5/17/12
to AlexTech Mail List
Hi Keith,
In some ways better use, less end-gaining and a greater degree of
awareness and mindfulness etc all involve being more objective about
oneself, as, to some extent, the original problem is predicated on
over-involvement with self.
Cheers,
Peter
In some ways better use, less end-gaining and a greater degree of
awareness and mindfulness etc all involve being more objective about
oneself, as, to some extent, the original problem is predicated on
over-involvement with self.
Cheers,
Peter
Keith Bacon
May 17, 2012, 10:57:34 AM5/17/12
to AlexTech Mail List
Hi Peter,
On 17 May 2012 09:33, peter <peter...@iolfree.ie> wrote:
> ... the original problem is predicated on over-involvement with self.
Indeed. To see our self as no different from anyone else. Or to see
our self as others see us.
Just what our (sense of self) actually is is a big question.
In a stressed mind the 'self' is more complex and less happy too.
Maybe it's equally selfish to seek happiness driven by your
compassionate self as it is driven by your greedy end-gaining self.
The first one works better I think.
Lots of Buddhists I know don't seem to realise it's somatic change
that changes your 'self' like this - not thinking to change your mind.
Having said that everything in our functioning is so tangled up
changing one thing can affect a lot of other things. Use affects
Functioning. But Function affects Use too I think.
regards,
Keith
On 17 May 2012 09:33, peter <peter...@iolfree.ie> wrote:
> ... the original problem is predicated on over-involvement with self.
Indeed. To see our self as no different from anyone else. Or to see
our self as others see us.
Just what our (sense of self) actually is is a big question.
In a stressed mind the 'self' is more complex and less happy too.
Maybe it's equally selfish to seek happiness driven by your
compassionate self as it is driven by your greedy end-gaining self.
The first one works better I think.
Lots of Buddhists I know don't seem to realise it's somatic change
that changes your 'self' like this - not thinking to change your mind.
Having said that everything in our functioning is so tangled up
changing one thing can affect a lot of other things. Use affects
Functioning. But Function affects Use too I think.
regards,
Keith
peter
May 19, 2012, 12:30:58 AM5/19/12
to AlexTech Mail List
Hi Keith,
You wrote: "As for doing too much I can work and play on computers for
meet false needs, or even to meet genuine needs in the wrong way. For
example, looking for praise or approval in the wrong places, doing too
much etc...
Discomfort or pain is very often our psyche letting us know that we
are on the wrong track, that we are not meeting our true and essential
needs. Attempting to meet false needs might be seen as an aspect of
faulty sensory perception. Our psyche always has our best interests at
heart, is always seeking wholeness in every sense of the word. When we
fail to listen to our psyche as to our real needs, the warning signals
tend to become louder, ie, more discomfort, unease or pain.
Cheers,
Peter
You wrote: "As for doing too much I can work and play on computers for
40 to 50
hours a week with no problems these days. More subtly am I 'doing too
much' time on computers? Maybe but I feel like I need the money!"
The question about needs is interesting. Sometimes we are seeking to
hours a week with no problems these days. More subtly am I 'doing too
much' time on computers? Maybe but I feel like I need the money!"
meet false needs, or even to meet genuine needs in the wrong way. For
example, looking for praise or approval in the wrong places, doing too
much etc...
Discomfort or pain is very often our psyche letting us know that we
are on the wrong track, that we are not meeting our true and essential
needs. Attempting to meet false needs might be seen as an aspect of
faulty sensory perception. Our psyche always has our best interests at
heart, is always seeking wholeness in every sense of the word. When we
fail to listen to our psyche as to our real needs, the warning signals
tend to become louder, ie, more discomfort, unease or pain.
Cheers,
Peter
Rex Alexander
May 19, 2012, 9:10:17 AM5/19/12
to alex...@googlegroups.com
Sat 19 May 2012, 11:57 am
Hi Peter, Keith, all,
I try to avoid the word "need" except for actual necessities such as air, food, shelter. I do not support the idea of "emotional needs." For example, many people say they "need" love in order to be happy. I say that while love is wonderful, highly desirable, and I strongly prefer to have it in my life, I do not in fact absolutely "need" it in order to be happy. Too often, I believe, needs are used to manipulate, as a way of inducing feelings of guilt and obligation in others via absolutist demands ("How could you deny me what I absolutely NEED??? !!!"), and also for justifying our anti-social behavior ("I HAD to do what I did to get what I NEED!").
"Need" places the responsibility for whatever it is we (think we) need outside of ourselves and elevates it to a demand. "Preference," on the other hand, is a choice that we take responsibility for obtaining and maintaining, and accept it as unfortunate-but-not-devastating if we don't get what we prefer, what we want.
Aloha,
Rex
Khon Kaen, Thailand
Keith Bacon
May 20, 2012, 12:48:03 PM5/20/12
to alex...@googlegroups.com
Hi Rex,
On 19 May 2012 14:10, Rex Alexander <rext...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Need" places the responsibility for whatever it is we (think we) need
> outside of ourselves and elevates it to a demand.
> ....
> "Preference," on the
> other hand, is a choice that we take responsibility for...
Indeed. And what Alexander noticed was that people subject to more
stress than their system can automatically deal with become unhappy
and frequently more 'needy' . This is nearly everyone in 'so called
civilisation'.
In buddhist terms their mind 'attaches' to things and makes them feel
like they need these things and more for security or even survival.
The process of somatic mind/body de-stressing un-does this and many
other negative effects of stress.
An Australian zen lady's husband wrote a touching essay about living
with an enlightened person when you aren't such yourself. He wrote 'I
need her but she doesn't need me any more. She doesn't need anything'.
That's a bit spooky! But I think this means she has this tremendous
liberating freedom to make the most of what she has right now without
that sense of 'I deserve better' or 'I need better' that plagues many
normal folks.
As I lost everything I spent years to accumulate I got seriously
stressed. In de-stressing to get rid of RSI I got some of this change
as a side effect. It's been quite wonderful for me.
regards
Keith
On 19 May 2012 14:10, Rex Alexander <rext...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Need" places the responsibility for whatever it is we (think we) need
> outside of ourselves and elevates it to a demand.
> "Preference," on the
> other hand, is a choice that we take responsibility for...
Indeed. And what Alexander noticed was that people subject to more
stress than their system can automatically deal with become unhappy
and frequently more 'needy' . This is nearly everyone in 'so called
civilisation'.
In buddhist terms their mind 'attaches' to things and makes them feel
like they need these things and more for security or even survival.
The process of somatic mind/body de-stressing un-does this and many
other negative effects of stress.
An Australian zen lady's husband wrote a touching essay about living
with an enlightened person when you aren't such yourself. He wrote 'I
need her but she doesn't need me any more. She doesn't need anything'.
That's a bit spooky! But I think this means she has this tremendous
liberating freedom to make the most of what she has right now without
that sense of 'I deserve better' or 'I need better' that plagues many
normal folks.
As I lost everything I spent years to accumulate I got seriously
stressed. In de-stressing to get rid of RSI I got some of this change
as a side effect. It's been quite wonderful for me.
regards
Keith
peter
May 21, 2012, 3:19:34 AM5/21/12
to AlexTech Mail List
Ron, needs have nothing to do with preferences etc. Needs are a given
in human nature. Emotional needs are as valid as physical needs.
Some people try to meet their needs in appropriate ways.
Peter
On May 19, 2:10 pm, Rex Alexander <rextu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sat 19 May 2012, 11:57 am
>
> Hi Peter, Keith, all,
>
> I try to avoid the word "need" except for actual necessities such as air, food, shelter. I do not support the idea of "emotional needs." For example, many people say they "need" love in order to be happy. I say that while love is wonderful, highly desirable, and I strongly prefer to have it in my life, I do not in fact absolutely "need" it in order to be happy. Too often, I believe, needs are used to manipulate, as a way of inducing feelings of guilt and obligation in others via absolutist demands ("How could you deny me what I absolutely NEED??? !!!"), and also for justifying our anti-social behavior ("IHADto do what I did to get what INEED!").
in human nature. Emotional needs are as valid as physical needs.
Some people try to meet their needs in appropriate ways.
Peter
On May 19, 2:10 pm, Rex Alexander <rextu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sat 19 May 2012, 11:57 am
>
> Hi Peter, Keith, all,
>
Rex Alexander
May 21, 2012, 3:33:22 AM5/21/12
to alex...@googlegroups.com
Mon 21 May 2012, 2:21 pm
Hello Peter, my name is Rex.
I realize that what you are saying is believed by many to be gospel, axiomatically so. I don't accept that at all. For example, if you do not get food--an actual need--you will decline and eventually die. If you do not get love--an imagined need--you may not delighted about such, but you will not decline . . . (unless you repeatedly tell yourself how awful and terrible your situation is), and you will not die. Many people believe that they absolutely must have what they absolutely "need" in order to be happy. I reject that. If fact, I believe such beliefs are responsible for much human misery.
Do you have any rational arguments which support your belief?
peter
May 21, 2012, 5:03:17 AM5/21/12
to AlexTech Mail List
Rex, on the contrary, love is not an imagined need, but is a very real
and primary human requirement for health and happiness., perhaps the
most essential of all. Yes, people need food to survive at a physical
level. That is obvious, but if there is a deficit in the area of love
and caring then the quality of that life will be very diminished
indeed.
Peter
On May 21, 8:33 am, Rex Alexander <rextu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mon 21 May 2012, 2:21 pm
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello Peter, my name is Rex.
>
>
>
> I realize that what you are saying is believed by many to be gospel, axiomatically so. I don't accept that at all. For example, if you do not get food--an actual need--you will decline and eventually die. If you do not get love--an imagined need--you may not delighted about such, but you will not decline . . . (unlessyou repeatedly tell yourself how awful and terrible your situation is), and you will not die. Many people believe that they absolutely must have what they absolutely "need" in order to be happy. I reject that. If fact, I believe such beliefs are responsible for much human misery.
> ...
>
> read more »
and primary human requirement for health and happiness., perhaps the
most essential of all. Yes, people need food to survive at a physical
level. That is obvious, but if there is a deficit in the area of love
and caring then the quality of that life will be very diminished
indeed.
Peter
On May 21, 8:33 am, Rex Alexander <rextu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mon 21 May 2012, 2:21 pm
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello Peter, my name is Rex.
>
>
>
>
> read more »
sraj
May 21, 2012, 6:13:53 AM5/21/12
to alex...@googlegroups.com
I agree with you Peter, actually it is something more fundamental: body language has a huge sexual component, we (and non humans too) are designed this way! This could be another good reason why 80 % of communication has little to do with the actual words spoken.
Regards,
Selvaraj
Regards,
Selvaraj
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noel
May 28, 2012, 9:23:33 PM5/28/12
to AlexTech Mail List
Keef oops, Keith (wink,wink) et, al
Actually I was as much touched by your 'loss' as by the plight of the
stranded Zen partner which of course is not unique to Zen. These
things are relative however.
On RSI a sad case was that of a 25yr old programmer who could not hold
his baby son such was the pain. You can only imagine his heartache in
later years watching the rough and tumble which is generally a part of
a fathers interaction. The look of bewilderment on the face of his son
at his own exclusion -terrible.
He would probably say that if you still have well -being and
initiative then you've lost nothing.
The quintessential moment for most of us however is when FM reached
that crucial stage in the development of his concept. Everything hung
on whether his reasoned strategy would succeed. I doubt if the
contrived phraseology (though the norm for the time) of UoS gives even
a hint of his turmoil. To reclaim his dream of a life of purpose and
enterprise or merely to exist. Loss incalcuable.
Doing 'nothing'. Sounds so simple -yet it's an odyssey.
NoelH
Actually I was as much touched by your 'loss' as by the plight of the
stranded Zen partner which of course is not unique to Zen. These
things are relative however.
On RSI a sad case was that of a 25yr old programmer who could not hold
his baby son such was the pain. You can only imagine his heartache in
later years watching the rough and tumble which is generally a part of
a fathers interaction. The look of bewilderment on the face of his son
at his own exclusion -terrible.
He would probably say that if you still have well -being and
initiative then you've lost nothing.
The quintessential moment for most of us however is when FM reached
that crucial stage in the development of his concept. Everything hung
on whether his reasoned strategy would succeed. I doubt if the
contrived phraseology (though the norm for the time) of UoS gives even
a hint of his turmoil. To reclaim his dream of a life of purpose and
enterprise or merely to exist. Loss incalcuable.
Doing 'nothing'. Sounds so simple -yet it's an odyssey.
NoelH
Keith Bacon
May 29, 2012, 7:06:59 AM5/29/12
to AlexTech Mail List
Hi Noel,
I am called Keef too and I like it as I like Keef Richard (not out of
respect for his Use though). I am also called Biffa after the
bewildered Biffa Bacon in Viz magazine.
> On RSI a sad case was that of a 25yr old programmer who could not hold
> his baby son such was the pain. ... terrible.
Yes and terrible (for me) to think that may have been me if I didn't
stumble into the AT world. And terrible that he and many others need
not have got like that if they followed the path I did. And that
hardly any one listens if you try to tell or show them.
> He would probably say that if you still have well -being and
> initiative then you've lost nothing.
Generally the type of person that gets RSI doesn't have that much
well-being before they get it - stress being a major factor in most
RSI. And RSI causes stress big time. The fear as it develops is no fun
either. I got the fear but found my way out before I got too much pain
- whew!
But most will deny they are stressed. We only realise how stressed we
are as we de-stress.
> Doing 'nothing'. Sounds so simple -yet it's an odyssey.
Well there are levels of nothing and different places we 'do' things
from. Do we 'do' heart beating? Do we 'do' breathing? It does itself
and we can do it too. What's the 'it' that's doing the itself. Crazy
zen! Stay away from it!
Non-doing is relative to what you have been doing. Alexander also
wrote of 'right things doing themselves'. You can inhibit the
reactions of over-doing to change towards less-doing. Or I (part of
myself?) can try to find the 'it' (part of myself?) that makes the
right things do themselves and give 'it' a kick. Is 'it' the primary
control? Are there secondary controls too? Are the 'controls' even in
a hierarchy?
Is asking questions 'doing' too much? Better go rest. (constructively).
K
I am called Keef too and I like it as I like Keef Richard (not out of
respect for his Use though). I am also called Biffa after the
bewildered Biffa Bacon in Viz magazine.
> On RSI a sad case was that of a 25yr old programmer who could not hold
Yes and terrible (for me) to think that may have been me if I didn't
stumble into the AT world. And terrible that he and many others need
not have got like that if they followed the path I did. And that
hardly any one listens if you try to tell or show them.
> He would probably say that if you still have well -being and
> initiative then you've lost nothing.
well-being before they get it - stress being a major factor in most
RSI. And RSI causes stress big time. The fear as it develops is no fun
either. I got the fear but found my way out before I got too much pain
- whew!
But most will deny they are stressed. We only realise how stressed we
are as we de-stress.
> Doing 'nothing'. Sounds so simple -yet it's an odyssey.
from. Do we 'do' heart beating? Do we 'do' breathing? It does itself
and we can do it too. What's the 'it' that's doing the itself. Crazy
zen! Stay away from it!
Non-doing is relative to what you have been doing. Alexander also
wrote of 'right things doing themselves'. You can inhibit the
reactions of over-doing to change towards less-doing. Or I (part of
myself?) can try to find the 'it' (part of myself?) that makes the
right things do themselves and give 'it' a kick. Is 'it' the primary
control? Are there secondary controls too? Are the 'controls' even in
a hierarchy?
Is asking questions 'doing' too much? Better go rest. (constructively).
K
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