Federer Footwork article

[Leland Vall]

Interesting article on Federer's footwork as a reason for his success.  I responded with a more Alexander interpretation.  I would encourage everyone to do the same. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/08/31/sports/tennis/20090831-roger-graphic.html?hp

 

 

______________
Leland Vall

917 239 6313
www.freeyourneck.com

 

Certified Alexander Technique Instructor

Certified Art of Breathing Instructor

Author of The Secret to Using Your Body

 

 

[earlyman]

Leland,

I'm a real Federer fan so this was nice. The "Alexander
interpretation" you suggests undoubtedly refers to his wonderful
spring and attention due to neck free, etc. during his play. Beyond
that, I think the analysis of his ability to assess the affect of the
ball's movment and his great footwork was very sound.

John Appleton


On Aug 30, 7:59 pm, "Leland Vall" <lel...@freeyourneck.com> wrote:
> Interesting article on Federer's footwork as a reason for his success.  I responded with a more Alexander interpretation.  I would encourage everyone to do the same.  http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/08/31/sports/tennis/20090831-...

>
> ______________
> Leland Vall
> 917 239 6313www.freeyourneck.com
>
> Certified Alexander Technique Instructor
> Certified Art of Breathing Instructor
> Author of The Secret to Using Your Body
>

>  smallersecret to using your body.jpg
> 102KViewDownload

[Joe Boland]

Leland,

Roger Federer is indeed an extraordinary tennis player and compared to
other players on the tour, e.g., Nadal, he is the picture of grace and
efficiency in his court movement. Much of what is illustrated in this
video is, however, neither efficient nor healthy tennis
movement/technique. It will, however, be emulated because Federer wins,
and whatever wins must be right. Right?

Joe Boland
Mariposa, California

Leland Vall wrote:
> Interesting article on Federer's footwork as a reason for his
> success. I responded with a more Alexander interpretation. I would
> encourage everyone to do the same.

> _ _
> _http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/08/31/sports/tennis/20090831-roger-graphic.html?hp_

>
>
> ______________
> Leland Vall
> 917 239 6313

> www.freeyourneck.com <http://www.freeyourneck.com/>

>
> Certified Alexander Technique Instructor
> Certified Art of Breathing Instructor

> Author of /The Secret to Using Your Body/

> Secret to Using Your Body

> <http://www.freeyourneck.com/html/secrettousingyourbody.html>
>
>
>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2335 - Release Date: 08/30/09 06:36:00
>
>

[earlyman]

Joe,

You didn't go on to explain what your clarity about Federer's use is.
Would you please expand on your comments where you say: "Much of what

is illustrated in this video is, however, neither efficient nor

healthy tennis movement/technique" It was a teaser sentence. I would
really like to see what you see or know what you know, perhaps.

Sincerely curious,

John Appleton

On Aug 31, 9:39 am, Joe Boland <at.yosem...@sti.net> wrote:
> Leland,
>
> Roger Federer is indeed an extraordinary tennis player and compared to
> other players on the tour, e.g., Nadal, he is the picture of grace and
> efficiency in his court movement. Much of what is illustrated in this
> video is, however, neither efficient nor healthy tennis
> movement/technique. It will, however, be emulated because Federer wins,
> and whatever wins must be right. Right?
>
> Joe Boland
> Mariposa, California
>
>
>
> Leland Vall wrote:
> > Interesting article on Federer's footwork as a reason for his
> > success.  I responded with a more Alexander interpretation.  I would
> > encourage everyone to do the same.
> > _ _

> > _http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/08/31/sports/tennis/20090831-...

>
> > ______________
> > Leland Vall
> > 917 239 6313
> >www.freeyourneck.com<http://www.freeyourneck.com/>
>
> > Certified Alexander Technique Instructor
> > Certified Art of Breathing Instructor
> > Author of /The Secret to Using Your Body/
> > Secret to Using Your Body
> > <http://www.freeyourneck.com/html/secrettousingyourbody.html>
>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG -www.avg.com

> > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2335 - Release Date: 08/30/09 06:36:00- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Joe Boland]

John,

Having devoted sixteen years (including teacher training) to the study of Alexander's work, I then spent an additional two years in the field exploring the application of Alexander's technique ( see http://alexandertechnique.com/ats/boland/ and The Alexander Technique and Tennis ) to the specific demands of  tennis movement/technique. That enabled me to create a very effective pedagogy for teaching what, for lack or a better term I would call "'Alexandered' tennis'". I thereafter created and directed for eleven years a successful program of tennis instruction for children and adults.

"...Teaser sentence", John??  Who on this list could possibly understand what I'm talking about, anyway? Who on this list is genuinely qualified to assess what Roger Federer is doing in this video?

Here's a question for you , John, and for anyone who wishes to actually THINK about what they're seeing in this video: why do you think Federer is spending so much time launching himself upward and off the ground, and what do you consider to be the productive/efficient value of that motion in the context of what he's trying to accomplish?

I'll contact you off-list, John.

All the best,

Joe
Mariposa, California

earlyman wrote:

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.72/2337 - Release Date: 08/31/09 05:50:00

  

[Halvard Heggdal]

Hello Joe,

"why do you think Federer is spending so much time launching himself upward
and off the ground, and what do you consider to be the productive/efficient
value of that motion in the context of what he's trying to accomplish?"

I would guess to gain momentum to be able to quickly move in any direction?
Please, enlighten us, you are the expert.

Regards,
Halvard

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Boland <at.yo...@sti.net>
To: alextech <alex...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:53:27 -0700
Subject: [alextech-list] Re: Federer Footwork article

> John,
>
> Having devoted sixteen years (including teacher training) to the study
> of Alexander's work, I then spent an additional two years in the field
> exploring the application of Alexander's technique ( see
> http://alexandertechnique.com/ats/boland/ and The Alexander Technique

> and Tennis <http://www.alexandertechnique.com/articles2/tennis> ) to the

[Keith Bacon]

2009/9/1 Joe Boland <at.yo...@sti.net>:

> Who on this list is genuinely qualified to
> assess what Roger Federer is doing in this video?

Apparently you!

> I'll contact you off-list, John.

I'd really like to hear this stuff on the list. I hope it would be
really educational.

Keith

[sraj]

Being good at a particular sport and having good postural balance (good health) may not necessarily go hand in hand. I was a fairly good long distance runner - won a few prizes - but with my present knowledge I would not repeat what I did when I was young.

Sports in its present form is a spectacle, more to do with business than health. This spectacle also helps to sell a whole lot of undesirable products. It is also all about end gaining. Killing yourself to shave a record by 0.01 sec is a bad joke.

When Baron De Coubertin planned the Olympics, at was forum in which amateurs could compete and have fun. But big business could not keep their hands away. They could very well have had a forum in which professionals could compete, but they had to control everything.

Something to think about: Which would better indicate the speed of a human being. 1) Running a 100 meters race without spikes or 2) running with spikes. (Why don't we have at least a few running events in the Olympics without footwear?)

The biggest failure of organized sports is that the overall human population is no healthier because of it.

Selvaraj

2009/9/1 Keith Bacon <keith...@googlemail.com>

[Joe Boland]

How does one gain momentum to move horizontally by disconnecting from
the ground and moving vertically? Try it and let me know what you discover.

[earlyman]

Dear Joe and List,

I think Joe wants us to read his articles, first. I have done this and
they satisfy me that he understands that the whole is the important
aspect to tennis that is overlooked when people think about their game
and when teachers teach it. They are interesting reading.

The TONE however, in Joe's response is hard to take. How aware he is
aware of it, I don't know. But I do try to answer below the question
he served to us. Perhaps he (you, Joe) will volley with us a bit.
Let's make it a practice volley, not a competitive one.

> Here's a question for you , John, and for anyone who wishes to actually
> THINK about what they're seeing in this video: why do you think Federer
> is spending so much time launching himself upward and off the ground,
> and what do you consider to be the productive/efficient value of that
> motion in the context of what he's trying to accomplish?

I think that it is possible that Federer has so much spring upward
because his body is highly toned (and not unevenly)... kind of like a
super ball. Imagine someone who is very exhilarated springing into the
air like this. The height of their spring is not something they chose,
per se. It is a byproduct that doesn't interfere. The same could be
true here. One the other hand, in some shots the height could be an
aid to hitting the ball at a more optimal level, allowing him to add
topspin that he might want on that return. Also in the spring there is
a bit of time to CHOOSE in WHICH DIRECTION one might want to develop
horizontal momementum. I am not the expert, but these are bona fide
suggestions.

Sincerely,

John Appleton

On Aug 31, 11:53 pm, Joe Boland <at.yosem...@sti.net> wrote:
> John,
>
> Having devoted sixteen years (including teacher training) to the study
> of Alexander's work, I then spent an additional two years in the field

> exploring the application of Alexander's technique ( seehttp://alexandertechnique.com/ats/boland/and The Alexander Technique
> and Tennis <http://www.alexandertechnique.com/articles2/tennis> ) to the

> > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.72/2337 - Release Date: 08/31/09 05:50:00- Hide quoted text -

[earlyman]

Joe and List,

I have another thought re: "How does one gain momentum to move

horizontally by disconnecting from
the ground and moving vertically?"

It seems that when he returns to earth following springing into the
air that he lands on the earth effectively weighing more than he,
Federer, actually weighs. This gives him more to push away from in any
direction he wants... if he has the strength, which Federer does have.
It also allows his feet to "grip the road" the road more and not slip.

John

> > exploring the application of Alexander's technique ( seehttp://alexandertechnique.com/ats/boland/andThe Alexander Technique

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Joe Boland]

Let me save us both some time, John. The simple fact is that what
Federer is doing is not efficient nor healthy, and yes, professional
athletes do it all the time. For instance, the perfect Tiger Woods is
still abusing his left knee on his follow-through...the same knee on
which he has now had two surgeries, the latest being ACL work.

Joe

> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.74/2339 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00
>
>

[Halvard Heggdal]

Hello Joe,
You certainly got a point there.

I'm an Alexander teacher and a violinist. I'm an expert on stringed
instruments and can make use of that when I teach. When teaching players of
other instruments I'm careful not to make judgements about what is necessary
movements or not. I might be wrong since I'm not an expert.

I'm very interested in the application of the Alexander technique to sports.
I have played very little tennis so your expert opinion is something I would
very much appreciate.

Your own answer to the question about Federers movement jumping up is that it
is inefficient and unhealthy. Are there other players who don't have this
habit and who in your opinion move in a more efficient way?

When I tried to answer your (rhetorical?) questions I had a try only on the
second. The first question is still not answered: "why is Federer spending so
much time launching himself upward and off the ground".

So why does he do it? What is the cause for this habit?

Regards,
Halvard




----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Boland <at.yo...@sti.net>
To: hal...@alexanderinfo.no
Sent: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 06:34:14 -0700
Subject: [alextech-list] Re: Federer Footwork article

>

> How does one gain momentum to move horizontally by disconnecting from

> the ground and moving vertically? Try it and let me know what you discover.

>
> Halvard Heggdal wrote:
> > Hello Joe,
> >

> > "why do you think Federer is spending so much time launching himself
upward
>
> > and off the ground, and what do you consider to be the
productive/efficient
>
> > value of that motion in the context of what he's trying to accomplish?"
> >

> > I would guess to gain momentum to be able to quickly move in any
direction?
>
> > Please, enlighten us, you are the expert.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Halvard
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Joe Boland <at.yo...@sti.net>
> > To: alextech <alex...@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:53:27 -0700
> > Subject: [alextech-list] Re: Federer Footwork article
> >
> >

> >> John,
> >>
> >> Having devoted sixteen years (including teacher training) to the study
> >> of Alexander's work, I then spent an additional two years in the field

> >> exploring the application of Alexander's technique ( see

> >> http://alexandertechnique.com/ats/boland/ and The Alexander Technique

> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> >>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.72/2337 - Release Date:
> >>>
> > 08/31/09
> >
> >> 05:50:00
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

[Joe Boland]

Hello Halvard,

"I'm very interested in the application of the Alexander technique to sports."
  

To what end, if I might ask. Do you want to work with athletes?

Your own answer to the question about Federers movement jumping up is that it
is  inefficient and unhealthy. Are there other players who don't have this
habit and who in your opinion move in a more efficient way?
  

It's been a few years since I was really following the tour and watching the players closely, but if you look at youtube clips of Pete Sampras you will see ground strokes that are much more grounded, just as effective, and as such more efficient. And Agassi was/is something to behold if you really want to see efficiency on a tennis court. Find some video of him and marvel at the quiet stillness and integration of his head and torso.

When I tried to answer your (rhetorical?) questions I had a try only on the
second. The first question is still not answered: "why is Federer spending so
much time launching himself upward and off the ground".
  

If I had to guess I'd say it's just become a habit that he is convinced is accomplishing something which it isn't. I don't remember him being that "athletically" flamboyant in the earlier years of his career, but I'd have to look at some early clips to be sure.

Even the best professional athletes have and/or acquire bad habits.

So why does he do it? What is the cause for this habit?
  

He is evidently convinced that is what he has to do in order to get the results that he gets.


Joe
Mariposa, California

05:50:00
    

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.74/2339 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00

    
  

[sraj]

Why should there be pain in the body if it is being used properly?

Selvaraj.

ROUTINE USE OF PAINKILLERS IN SPORTS

“For a lot of athletes, taking painkillers has become a ritual,” says Stuart Warden, an assistant professor and director of physical therapy research at Indiana University, who has extensively studied the physiological impacts of the drugs. “They put on their uniform” or pull on their running shoes and pop a few Advil. “It’s like candy” or Vitamin I, as some athletes refer to ibuprofen.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/phys-ed-does-ibuprofen-help-or-hurt-during-exercise/?em

2009/9/2 Joe Boland <at.yo...@sti.net>

[Joe Boland]

Misuse injury is pervasive in professional tennis but the public is
largely ignorant of this fact. It is not in the interest of an athlete
to publicly reveal what could give a competitive edge to a potential
opponent; nor is it in the interest of the tennis industry for this
dirty little secret to be revealed. Bad P.R.

One very real downside to this duplicity is that young children are
copying some of the most injurious habits of their athlete heroes,
totally unaware that what they're emulating will likely hurt them.

Joe

sraj wrote:
> Why should there be pain in the body if it is being used properly?
>
> Selvaraj.
>
> ROUTINE USE OF PAINKILLERS IN SPORTS
>
> “For a lot of athletes, taking painkillers has become a ritual,” says
> Stuart Warden, an assistant professor and director of physical therapy
> research at Indiana University, who has extensively studied the
> physiological impacts of the drugs. “They put on their uniform” or
> pull on their running shoes and pop a few Advil. “It’s like candy” or
> Vitamin I, as some athletes refer to ibuprofen.
>
> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/phys-ed-does-ibuprofen-help-or-hurt-during-exercise/?em
>
>

> 2009/9/2 Joe Boland <at.yo...@sti.net <mailto:at.yo...@sti.net>>

>>>>>>>> www.freeyourneck.com <http://www.freeyourneck.com><http://www.freeyourneck.com/>

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Certified Alexander Technique Instructor
>>>>>>>> Certified Art of Breathing Instructor
>>>>>>>> Author of /The Secret to Using Your Body/
>>>>>>>> Secret to Using Your Body
>>>>>>>> <http://www.freeyourneck.com/html/secrettousingyourbody.html>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.

>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG -www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>

>>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2335 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> 08/30/09 06:36:00- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.

>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>

>>>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.72/2337 - Release Date:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> 08/31/09
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 05:50:00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.

>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>

>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.72/2337 - Release Date:
>>>>
>> 08/31/09
>>
>>> 05:50:00
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG -

>>> www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>

>>>
>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.74/2339 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> >

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

[Keith Bacon]

2009/9/2 sraj <sra...@gmail.com>:

Is it a big failure of AT to penetrate the sports world?

> Why should there be pain in the body if it is being used properly?

They don't claim to be using themselves well - they have no conception
of 'use' - that is the problem.

Keith

[Keith Bacon]

2009/9/2 Joe Boland <at.yo...@sti.net>:

> Misuse injury is pervasive in professional tennis but the public is
> largely ignorant of this fact.

A masseuse for top level sports people (cricket & tennis) told me
their 'body awareness' is appalling and they injure themselves
unnecessarily by over-use especially of unhealed injuries.

We need more stuff like this:-

http://www.alextechlondon.co.uk/

find 'For Sport and Exercise'

[MJULIOV]

Hi all,
A-propos this thread, I am reading a very interesting book, "The inner
game of tennis", T.Gallway.

I have found many similarities with F.M.Alexander's insights, from a
more up-to-date perspective.

Best regards,
Julio

[Halvard Heggdal]

Hello,
A-propos to Julio's book recommendation.
I can recommend "The inner game of music" written by Barry Green together
with Gallway.
Thinking in relation to music. Worth trying out for musicians and music
students.

regards,

Halvard


----- Original Message -----
From: MJULIOV <mju...@gmail.com>
To: alex...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:43:39 -0300
Subject: [alextech-list] Re: Federer Footwork article

>

[Halvard Heggdal]

Hello Joe,
Thanks for your comment.
Maybe I will work with athletes in the future. Sports is potentially the
biggest "market" for the AT almost untouched.

There are similarities between musicians and athletes. Both are performers,
and the physical demand on musicians can be great. Ideally we should have
more teachers who are also athletes to go into that area, like today there
are quite a lot of AT teachers who are also musicians.

I very often work with people in relation to the kind of exercise or workouts
they are doing. I'm actually giving a lesson in the park tomorrow morning
(weather permitting) to a pupil interested in running.

Regards,

Halvard



----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Boland <at.yo...@sti.net>
To: Halvard Heggdal <hal...@alexanderinfo.no>
Sent: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:48:03 -0700
Subject: [alextech-list] Re: Federer Footwork article

>

> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Joe Boland <at.yo...@sti.net>
> > To: hal...@alexanderinfo.no
> > Sent: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 06:34:14 -0700

> > Subject: [alextech-list] Re: Federer Footwork article
> >
> >

> >> How does one gain momentum to move horizontally by disconnecting from
> >> the ground and moving vertically? Try it and let me know what you
> discover.
> >>
> >
> >
> >> Halvard Heggdal wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Joe,
> >>>

> >>> "why do you think Federer is spending so much time launching himself
> >>>
> > upward
> >

> >>> and off the ground, and what do you consider to be the
> >>>
> > productive/efficient
> >
> >>> value of that motion in the context of what he's trying to accomplish?"

> >>>
> >>> I would guess to gain momentum to be able to quickly move in any
> >>>
> > direction?
> >
> >>> Please, enlighten us, you are the expert.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,

> >>> Halvard
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----

> >>> From: Joe Boland <at.yo...@sti.net>
> >>> To: alextech <alex...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> Sent: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:53:27 -0700

> >>> Subject: [alextech-list] Re: Federer Footwork article
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>

> >>>>>>> www.freeyourneck.com<http://www.freeyourneck.com/>

> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Certified Alexander Technique Instructor
> >>>>>>> Certified Art of Breathing Instructor
> >>>>>>> Author of /The Secret to Using Your Body/
> >>>>>>> Secret to Using Your Body
> >>>>>>> <http://www.freeyourneck.com/html/secrettousingyourbody.html>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>>>> Checked by AVG -www.avg.com

> >>>>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2335 - Release Date:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> 08/30/09 06:36:00- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> >>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.72/2337 - Release Date:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> 08/31/09
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> 05:50:00
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.72/2337 - Release Date:
> >>>
> > 08/31/09
> >
> >> 05:50:00
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

[Jeremy Chance]

Hi Halvard,

I agree that until more people in the Sports & Fitness industry train,
we can not have an effective presence.

AT teachers need more training than is currently the norm to function
successfully in that area. For a start, every teacher should be able
to name our major bones, joints, muscle groups, type of movements and
ROM. It doesn't take more than a few weekends to learn that, but most
people in the Fitness industry would find it hard to take someone
seriously who purports to be able to analyse and significantly improve
co-ordination and yet knows next to nothing about the nomenclature of
the mechanisms they are dealing with.

cheerfully

Jeremy
ja...@mac.com
090-2284.0869 (Japan +81)

[Joe Boland]

Hey Jeremy,

Let me suggest an alternative point of view: until Alexander teachers
are capable of leaving the "teaching room/bubble", developing a personal
understanding of the practical needs of someone involved in athletic
activity, and effectively addressing those needs in a real applied
environment, Alexander's work will have no more an effective presence in
the Sports and Fitness world than it has heretofore had.

It's not about Sports and Fitness people entering the training/teaching
bubble; it's about Alexander teachers becoming willing and capable of
effectively addressing the performance needs of real people in the real
world.

Caring about and being conversant in the language of Sport Science,
Psychology, and Medicine would indeed be a valuable tool for Alexander
teachers hoping to connect with the world of sports/athletic
performance, but in the final analysis the only thing that will count is
if an Alexander teacher is able to provide athletes with information
that will improve athletic performance in a practical and timely
fashion....which heretofore has not been the case.

It has long seemed clear to me that one of the reasons Alexander's work
has historically found such resonance in the performing arts is simply
because so many of those who become teachers have real experience in the
performing arts and are thus better prepared to address the actual needs
of performing artists. Is there not a lesson here?

Hoping you're well,

Joe Boland
Mariposa, California

> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2341 - Release Date: 09/02/09 05:50:00
>
>

[Paul Cook]

Hi Joe,

I agree that if an AT teacher can find a way to get a *result* that a
sports person has never had before...they are going to care less about
the terminology the teacher uses and more about how much further and
more accurately they can hit a golf ball...swing a hammer or run
without injury.

What Jeremy is saying is that to open doors initially...to get a
sports person to listen you have to say more than "come over here and
let me put my hands on you". Unless of course you are personal friends
with an elite athlete who allows you to interact with them as they do
what they do.

But beware the Alexander teacher's instruction that helps reduce
injury...but affects the end performance of the athlete. In other
words, we might be able to keep a runner in his shoes longer, but what
if it is to the detriment of his wanted *outcomes* right now?

Elite athletes are "elite" not due to a conscious constructive control
of their organism...they are "elite" by way of some other unconscious
process...perhaps genetics? Perhaps drive, belief...necessity?

Who knows really how an athlete manages to get to that level...what we
do know by observing the best in the tennis field...they stay there
with the help of science.


Paul Cook

> Mariposa, CaliforniaJeremy Chance wrote:
> > Hi Halvard,
>
> > I agree that until more people in the Sports & Fitness industry train,  
> > we can not have an effective presence.
>
> > AT teachers need more training than is currently the norm to function  
> > successfully in that area. For a start, every teacher should be able  
> > to name our major bones, joints, muscle groups, type of movements and  
> > ROM. It doesn't take more than a few weekends to learn that, but most  
> > people in the Fitness industry would find it hard to take someone  
> > seriously who purports to be able to analyse and significantly improve  
> > co-ordination and yet knows next to nothing about the nomenclature of  
> > the mechanisms they are dealing with.
>
> > cheerfully
>
> > Jeremy

> > j...@mac.com

> >>>>>>>http://alexandertechnique.com/ats/boland/and The Alexander  

> >>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.72/2337 - Release  
> >>>>>>>> Date:
>
> >>>>>> 08/31/09
>
> >>>>>>> 05:50:00
>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.

> >>>>>> Checked by AVG -www.avg.com

> >>>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.72/2337 - Release Date:
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> >>>> 08/31/09
>
> >>>>> 05:50:00
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> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.

> >>>>> Checked by AVG -www.avg.com

> >>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.74/2339 - Release Date:
>
> >> 09/01/09
>
> >>> 06:52:00
>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG -www.avg.com

[Joe Boland]

Thank-you , Paul.

I'm actually looking forward to hearing what Jeremy says he is saying.

Thanks again,

Joe
Mariposa, California

> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.76/2343 - Release Date: 09/03/09 05:50:00
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>

[JC]

Hi All,

I quote Jeremy: "until more people in the Sports & Fitness industry
train,
we can not have an effective presence...AT teachers need more training

than is currently the norm to function successfully in that area."

Here's Joe:

>until Alexander teachers
> are capable of leaving the "teaching room/bubble", developing a personal
> understanding of the practical needs of someone involved in athletic
> activity, and effectively addressing those needs in a real applied
> environment, Alexander's work will have no more an effective presence in
> the Sports and Fitness world than it has heretofore had.

I don't see these ideas as mutually exclusive.
I am a professional violinist. My experience as an AT teacher is the
following:

--Coming from the musical profession has an advantage for me as an AT
teacher, because I believe I know more about what is involved in that
profession than other professions, so I have a natural confidence when
teaching musicians, which I see other AT teachers lacking. When a
teacher lacks confidence and believes that they don't know enough
about the subject, their teaching will be less than optimum.
--It is also an advantage to know the profession from the inside
because musicians are more likely to trust me at the outset for the
simple fact that I am a musician. Again, the belief is that someone
in the same profession knows more about what they do, and therefore
more about who they are, and therefore can help them more than someone
who doesn't.

I am NOT saying that I am a better teacher of musicians than AT
teachers who are not. I do not believe that at all. What I am saying
is that perhaps I am a better teacher of musicians than some AT
teachers who believe that they need to know more about the particulars
of an activity before they interact with the student. What I believe
is that an AT teacher who is confident in their skills as an AT
teacher, and who is willing to apply those skills to any activity,
regardless of knowledge of specific fields, will be a better teacher
than one who perceives a lack in themselves.

If what I am teaching is how to think, and how to think in activity AS
SUCH, then it doesn't matter what specific information I know (about a
specific activity) at the outset. I trust that I will learn what I
need to know ("developing a personal understanding of the practical

needs of someone involved in athletic

activity"--Joe) while teaching; if I see that I need to know specifics
about range of motion or anatomy, I will teach myself what I need to
know.

What I REALLY need to know is how to best communicate with my student,
so that the student will connect to what I'm saying. When working
with fitness/sports professionals, I would very possibly need to know
the language and information of anatomy, etc., as Jeremy suggests. Not
only to inspire trust, but maybe mostly for that reason.

Do I need to leave the teaching room (which I personally do not
consider a bubble, which implies a disconnect from the "real" world)?
No, I do not believe that I do, because my teaching room IS part of
the real world. However, I might very well wish to do just that. My
musician students may or may not bring their instruments to the lesson
and use them, and there is improvement in that activity whether they
do or not. My sports students can't bring a ball and use it in my
studio. I assume that they would also improve with or without my
overseeing them in their particular activity. Both of us have a
choice. But, if my student wants to, why not go to the field and use
that activity to improve use instead of doing chairwork inside? If
improving that specific activity is my student's only conscious
motivation, that may be the only way I can really connect with him:
speaking his language, in his environment. A particular student may
feel more comfortable there, too, because it's familiar, and so it may
be easier to inspire trust if I go with him to where he wishes to be.

My aim is to teach my students the technique and improve use, so that
they can apply it to themselves, to all life situations and any
activity, wherever it takes place.

All the best,
Jennifer

> > j...@mac.com

> > 090-2284.0869 (Japan +81)
>
> > On Thu03/Sep/09, at  3 Sep 1:28 AM, Halvard Heggdal wrote:
>
> >> Hello Joe,
> >> Thanks for your comment.
> >> Maybe I will work with athletes in the future. Sports is potentially  
> >> the
> >> biggest "market" for the AT almost untouched.
>
> >> There are similarities between musicians and athletes. Both are  
> >> performers,
> >> and the physical demand on musicians can be great. Ideally we should  
> >> have
> >> more teachers who are also athletes to go into that area, like today  
> >> there
> >> are quite a lot of AT teachers who are also musicians.
>
> >> I very often work with people in relation to the kind of exercise or  
> >> workouts
> >> they are doing. I'm actually giving a lesson in the park tomorrow  
> >> morning
> >> (weather permitting) to a pupil interested in running.
>
> >> Regards,
> >> Halvard
>
> >> ----- Original Message -----

> >> From: Joe Boland <at.yosem...@sti.net>
> >> To: Halvard Heggdal <halv...@alexanderinfo.no>

> >>>>>>>http://alexandertechnique.com/ats/boland/and The Alexander  

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[Catherine Kettrick]

I remember when I first started teaching a pupil came complaining of
pain around "T6."

"What on earth is a T6?" I thought.

So I said, "Show me exactly where," and she did. And I decided that I
must have at least enough understanding of anatomy to meet pupils where
they are.

Catherine

--
Catherine

Catherine Kettrick, Ph.D., CSC
Director, The Performance School
206-522-3584

[Jeremy Chance]

WARNING! This is a long post, you might want to put it aside till
later!!!

***
Hi Joe & All,

My comments last week were just the tip of the iceberg, and I concede
that the question involves much more than just learning anatomical
terms, so let me comment first by telling a story...

Years ago I was talking with Marjory Barlow about the DIRECTION issue
I published on the work of Marjory and her husband Dr Wilfred Barlow
(still available for purchase BTW) and Marjory confirmed how
"Bill" (was it?) had put together over two hundred different
"Alexander directions". What the actual number was I can't remember -
but it was jaw-droppingly high. I had heard about it previously - I
don't remember from who - and I was hoping that Marjory could hand
over some written material on the subject to publish in DIRECTION
Journal. In those days there were stories hanging around that he could
sort out someone's frozen shoulder in just one session. Having
suffered myself from that condition in the past, I understood how
knowledge of the 200+ directions would certainly assist in pulling off
such an accomplishment.

Perhaps there are Barlow teachers on the list who could comment on this?

Anyway, Marjory knew what I was talking about, but alas there was
nothing to print. She mentioned that Bill had been working on
something, but I never heard any more. And so I forgot about it.

Until recently. Now I am guessing that Barlow took his training as a
Doctor, combined it with Alexander's knowledge of the working unity of
human behaviour, and mapped the specific roles of the myiad of
interacting muscular forces, to come up with his 200+ directions. I am
not advocating this as a model for training teachers - in case you
were thinking that - but I do think this hints at a vast new science
of human movement, one which accurately relates specificity to
holistic function.

The Fitness and Sports industry, and all the medical and para-medical
parafernalia that accompany it, are the masters of specificity. We, in
our closeted Alexander world, are of the masters of unity. Further
energise a process of creating relationships between these two
reservoirs of knowledge, and you have the makings of a new brand of
scientific knowledge.

Part of the strategy of BodyChance - which is the company I now run -
is to situate Alexander's discoveries square and centre in the Fitness
and Sports industry. We are currently embarking on a long term project
to do just that in Australia - the most sports crazy nation on this
earth. (Haven't you ever wondered how a nation of 24 million people
manage every Olympics to get themselves in the overall top ten gold
medalists, along with nations who number 100 million and upwards?) Our
plan is not a quick fix operation, it is an enterprise bound to take
several decades. In this, I think we can burrow from the success of
Alexander's work in the performing arts world.

Authority flows from the experience and knowledge of the activity you
are involved in. Musicians who were trained in AT, returned to their
world and started creating a good "buzz" about AT and how it can help.
Our strategy at BodyChance is to consciously and deliberately start
appealing to people in the Sports and Fitness Industry - sports
persons, fitness trainers, small business owners of yoga, pilaties,
aerobics clubs etc - and encourage them to come train with us; then
support them to position themselves back in the market with a superior
product that combines fitness & sports training from the holistic
viewpoint of Alexander's discoveries. (After all, Professor Little's
study showed that AT with a bit of exercise was an effective
formula! :-)

When I look around the Alexander community today, it is obvious that
one category of successful teachers are the niche marketers - people
who "specialise" in applying the work to specific activity. When you
can walk the walk in a particular field, and relate that information
back to Alexander's discoveries, you have the essence of a great
business. So penetrating any profession or sports is best achieved by
training people who are already in it. The technology and art of
marketing, focused to sell Alexander's golden product, makes the task
simply one of finance, savvy and intent. The outcome is not in question.

***

I don't know about other teachers on this list, but it has taken me
decades to achieve the accuracy of observation and confidence to be
able to observe high level sports performance, and offer any
meaningful feedback that is short on the mumbo jumbo and long on
accuracy and effectiveness. For a start, the serious in this field
inevitably speak the universal language of movement - and more often
than not expect the same from you. There are many language systems
that have been created to describe movements - particularly in the
dance world - but none have such universal agreement as does the
language of the anatomists. Starting from the anatomical position, we
can describe every movement with some accuracy. It is still quite a
clumsy language, but that's what we have.

This is new thinking for me, evolving as I do in figuring out the
pedagogical evolution of the BodyChance training. Only recently I
decided that anyone who trains at BodyChance will leave with a good
working understanding of the subject. Some have escaped my clutches,
but these days my trainees are tested, and don't get their certificate
if they fail this exam. Luckily there is a text book available for our
BodyThinking module - The Anatomy of Movement. I recommend that any
teacher - thinking as they read this that maybe I've got a point - go
ahead and buy this book, spend a few weeks getting familiar with it,
then keep it near your teaching space henceforth.

Our BodyThinking module is a not a dry attempt to learn terms - it is
an ongoing experiment to relate the specific to the whole, to bring
the wisdom and insight of Alexander's discoveries to bear on the known
workings and functionality of the various movement systems within our
behaviour. Every year we will take a new activity and go through the
process of analysing the needs, misconceptions and co-ordinations
involved in this activity. This year we are analysing Bellydancing -
and we are having a lot of fun figuring that out. Like everything I
do, it is integrated with the overall business strategy, so
BellyDancing in the training school is also part of a marketing push
in the Tokyo area to create new members for our Ippan Course (where
you take out a membership for a year of weekly AT lessons).

Using this model, I will entice into the training those people who
have skill sets that can inform and enrich our BodyThinking module.
Obviously the next move is looking at different sports, systems of
training etc. and THIS is the seed that will eventually flourish into
an Alexander presence in the sports and fitness industry (to answer
your question Joe).

***

Another desire I have with the BodyThinking module, is to slowly build
a knowledge base available to AT teachers who want to shift from being
chair and table teachers, and move towards the application field.
Those teachers who think this move is only a matter of making a
decision... well, you need to talk to me about that. I was a chair and
table teacher for 10 years, so I know what I am talking about when I
say that the move into application work was as wrenching as my first
year of teaching. And continued to be so for many years after! So I
hope that one day BodyChance can start offering training to teachers
who want to switch. A "switch" campaign no less! (I hope you can see
my tongue-in-cheek amusement around that one...

"Hallo. I am a chair and table teacher."

"Oh hi, I'm application guy.")

Anyway, right now I am on the bullet train from Tokyo to Kyoto with
nothing else to do, so I have got a little carried away with this
post. Sorry for going on so much. I will put this on my blog too I
think.

To finish I want to say that as a collective, AT teachers carry an
extraordinary understanding of human movement, and mostly this
knowledge dies with the teacher who carries it. In this day and age,
when computer animators have the potentiality (with enough time and
money) to program every movement vector of every muscle in every
moment - I keep wondering what would have resulted if Wlfred Barlow
had been able to instruct them in his 200+ directions!

cheerfully

Jeremy
_
Jeremy Chance
AT Teacher in Japan
mailto:ja...@mac.com

[Joe Boland]

Thanks, Jeremy.

All the best in your endeavors.

Joe

Mariposa, California

Jeremy Chance wrote:

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.78/2347 - Release Date: 09/05/09 05:51:00
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>

[Paul Cook]

Well said Joe,

I could have phrased it much better...something like, "what I believe
Jeremy is saying" !!

Look forward to a face-to-face chat one of these days.

cheers Paul

> >>>>>>>>>http://alexandertechnique.com/ats/boland/andThe Alexander  

> >>>>>>>>> Technique
>
> >>>>>>>>> and Tennis <http://www.alexandertechnique.com/articles2/
> >>>>>>>>> tennis> ) to
>
> >>>> the
>
> >>>>>>>>> specific demands of        tennis movement/technique. That enabled me to
>
> >>>>>>>>> create a very effective pedagogy for teaching what, for lack or a
>
> >>>> better
>
> >>>>>>>>> term I would call "'Alexandered' tennis'". I thereafter created  
>

> ...
>
> read more »