Reversing Game

[Bok Wykes]

HelloI'm having problems with my Heat Pump and Google Nest.

What I have:

I own a Nest Learning Thermostat 3rd Gen. I purchased this back in 2020

It is attached to a single Payne Heat Pump system. My Nest has successfully changed between heating and cooling and matched requested temperatures for the past 2 1/2 years. In short it has worked well.

The Problem:

Recently when I switched the system from cooling to heat it started producing a repeating ticking noise. It could be heard in the air handler and also outside where the condenser is. The Nest reports no errors of any kind functions as normal.

My Finding:

After ruling out wire degradation, fuses and a whole lot of voltage measurements and troubleshooting I have narrowed the problem down to 1 wire, the ( OB ) the Heat pump Orange wire.

As I understand it, in normal operation the Nest is switching from Heat to Cooling by applying constant +24 V AC to the condenser reversing valve. This essentially switches the value from heating to cooling. This is supposed to be a constant +24V supply.

What I have found from doing my measurements during this conversion process is the Nest starts by sending around 26 or so volts but then immediately drops down to around 22 V then rises back up again to 26V this constant voltage oscillation drives the reversing valve on and off since it is designed to engage at 24V and disengage at 23V. It feels like there isn't enough current to constantly feed the reversing valve causing the value to oscillate on and off.

I have bypassed the thermostat by feeding the 24v directly from the transformer aka the ( red wire ) and the valve works fine; it receives a steady 26V AC and the reversing valve remains active. This leads me to the conclusion that the Nest thermostat is now defective.

I'm working on an alteryx workflow and currently use some guidance. I'm working with a data set where I'm am trying to get the total debit (positive) balance for specific units to not include the debit (positive) balances that are for reversing entries. The issue I'm running into, is that this is over multiple units (unit 1 & 2) and when I try to use the workflows from similar questions, I can't create an output that only includes non-reversing debit entries. The issue I'm facing in my data is that debit and credit of a specific journal entry don't have an indicator where it shows the debit and credit being a part of the same entry. In the 'Data Input' file attached below for example, in the 'Unit 1' tab, rows 2&3 are reversing entries, but the 'Transaction Sequence Number' and 'Journal Id' for both the debit and credit don't have a way of matching up so I don't know how to bring them together to remove the reversing debit from the balance. I tried to highlight and document in the attached file what I'm trying to do. If anyone could help I'd greatly appreciate!

Since you don't have a unique field to join on, here is what I tried. I added a multi row tool to give a unique transaction order to each dollar amount. I then join the first positive number to the first negative number of the same value and so on. For any dollar amount that doesn't find a match, those should be the non reversing entries and the ones that join should be the reversing entries. Again, it's not perfect since you can't guarantee that they aren't two unrelated transactions that happen to offset but hopefully it's a step in the right direction.

For example, there will be a transaction with a value of 500, then a couple data rows later (or in the row directly after) there will be a value of -500. I would like to delete all of these reversing entries.

However, sometimes there will be a value of 500, then a value of -500 and then a value of 500 again. Meaning I would only like to delete the first 500 and subsequent -500 but keep the final value of 500.

I have a participant that requested an age 59 1/2 inservice withdrawal through the recordkeeper's website. The participant received check and is now saying they made an error when navigating the website. They accidently requested the maximum avaialble, but they really wanted a much smaller amount. Essentially, they have removed their entire account balance, which is a sizable amount, but they wanted only a fraction of the account.

The participant contacted the recordkeeper. Recordkeeper is refusing to reverse the transaction unless we (the plan sponsor/employer) indemnify the recordkeeper AND agree to make good on any loss that will be incurred by reversing the transaction. The indemnification wording they are suggesting is basic holds harmless type wording - no specific regulations or statutes are referenced.

What I am trying to understand is what is risk to our Plan if we authorize this reversal? The recordkeeper has been unable to cite the specific regs or statutes that would be violated by reversing the transaction.

I would like to help the participant out in this situation, but I'm hesitant to act without a better sense of the risk to the Plan. Has anyone had a similar situation occur? Any comments on how other plans handle these types of participant mistakes?

I don't see the harm in reversing the distribution, as long as the participant hasn't cashed the check. We have done this with loans and hardships when participant decides they don't want/need the funds and they return the check uncashed.

Janet - isn't this heading down a dangerous path? Let's say a participant cashes out today when the mutual fund is at $10 share. A week later the fund is at $15 a share, and the participant says "woops I made a mistake, please reverse my prior cashout."

Be careful on this one. When the mutual fund company says they want you to indemnify them, they mean that they will undo the transaction as of the original effective date, and if that means that the account would have been worth more as of the date the original money is returned, they'll send you a bill for the difference (i.e. the scenario that PIP noted - I apologize if this is obvious).

It should be easy enough to just return the check and buy back shares at their current value; i.e. the participant bears all the risk, but in my experience, the fund companies won't do that - it must be undone as of the inception date. (Although it's worth a phone call to ask and clarify that point.)

I'm a retirement actuary. Nothing about my comments is intended or should be construed as investment, tax, legal or accounting advice. Occasionally, but not all the time, it might be reasonable to interpret my comments as actuarial or consulting advice.

Thanks to everyone that has replied. There was withholding taken from the distribution, but the participant has not yet cashed the check. I would have thought it would be as easy as voiding the check and starting over, but apparently not.

Our recordkeeper has advised us the we (plan sponsor) will be responsible for any loss if the distribution is reversed. We are okay with that cost, but had concerns about the idemnification part and whether we are violating any specific statutes. I have been unable to locate any guidance regarding reversing distributions in the event of participant error - nothing saying you can or you can't.

From the research I've done, I see no way that the participant could have expected to benefit from taking the distribution and changing his mind. He still wants a distribution, just for a much smaller amount. It does not appear he did this to circumvent any provisions of the plans -- he honestly just made a mistake.

As to the website, it is very basic and overall, I think it is somewhat confusing to navigate. There are also language issues involved that I think played part in the confusion (English not being this person's first language).

Lastly, we are in the process of leaving this recordkeeper. My first impression was that the recordkeeper was being difficult on purpose due to the situation, but I wanted to check and see if anyone knew of any regulatory reasons to not let this happen. I don't want to put the Plan at risk in an attempt to help this guy.

The problem with the indemnification and potential additional deposit to the account from the employer is that it would/should be treated as a contribution to the plan, and then it should be allocated to all participants according the plan terms. If it's a small amount, I am comfortable ignoring this and just having the employer expense it as admin cost or whatever...I don't think it's going to show up on the trust report at all, so it's unlikely to come up as an "issue" at a later date. I know that's not "right" but at some level you have to be practical and recognize that innocent mistakes can happen and you just fix them as best you can.

PiP we only do this if the time is extremely short, not if the participant has been holding the check. If someone makes a mistake on website and calls in day or so we can void the transaction and stop the check.

I was thinking the same thing. Of course, the plan may not allow rollovers, and the 20% withholding has already been done, so this isn't necessarily a perfect solution, but it could alleviate some of the problems.

Been ebaying for 15+ yrs. Attempted to make a purchase today using two different credit cards as well as my paypal account. Both credit card banks are saying ebay is reversing the transaction, that all the transaction details are correct. Ebay doesn't give me any details why my checkout isn't going through. They just bump me back to choose a new payment method. I even tried Google Pay.

Another buyer reported the same thing happening within the last couple of weeks. After a lot of back and forth, it turned out that the seller was not registered for Managed Payments (eBay's new payment processor) and that was why the payments were bouncing. The buyer eventually admitted that the seller had been trying to get him to pay off-eBay right from the start. That would be against eBay policy, and quite likely a scam.

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