Forgetting to switch on Beedroid timer

[Pankaj More]

Hello Akratics!

I have set up some goals which are timer based. To prevent me from entering any data which might be fake, I have setup the fine print on these goals to say that only data points allowed are beedroid's timer entry.

Now, when I start working on the goal, I usually forget to start the timer. Does anyone else also have this problem? Since I cannot enter any manual data, I have to redo the goal again after starting the timer. Any suggestions please.

Thanks,

Pankaj

[Brent Yorgey]

Do you really need this fine print?  It sounds like this fine print about only using timer data points would only be helpful if you were (a) dishonest enough to enter fake data points, BUT (b) honest enough to abide by the fine print!  It sounds like (b) is true since you are apparently willing to redo goals just because of your fine print. So are you really worried about (a)?  If you are willing to abide by the fine print, why not just make the fine print say "no fake data points"?

Personally, I do this quite often (start doing a task but forget to start the timer).  As soon as I realize it, I typically (1) estimate the amount of time I have already spent and enter a data point, and then (2) start the timer.  I always try to estimate (1) as accurately as I can; I don't find myself tempted to report inflated estimates.  Over the long run, it probably all averages out.  Ideally, of course, I would always remember to start the timer---and I do try to remember---but realistically, there will always be times when I forget.  In fact, the times when I forget are often the times when I am being so productive/in the flow that I really *want* to do the goal, or I have made the goal an automatic habit, and I just get right on to doing it without remembering that I am supposed to track it!  That being the case, it seems particularly silly to penalize myself by saying the work I did without the timer running doesn't count, because I want to *encourage* this sort of behavior.

If you are really worried about this, however, it is exactly what TagTime is designed for: http://messymatters.com/tagtime/ .  You never have to worry about remembering to start a timer, in exchange for a loss of precision in measuring the amount of time spent doing any particular thing.  I find it works well for big goals, like spending 40 hours/week on work, or 10 hours/week on reading or research or studying, but it doesn't work well for smaller goals like spending 30 minutes or 1 hour per week doing something, because the variation is just too high.  (You could have TagTime ping you more frequently to get a higher resolution, but that just starts to get annoying and disruptive.)

-Brent

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[Brent Yorgey]

I should also add that for me, the dual situation is a much bigger problem: starting the timer but forgetting to STOP it when I finish the task or get distracted.  It's much harder to accurately estimate the amount of time spent in that case, especially if I got distracted.

-Brent

[David Gessner]

I haven't tried this, but maybe you could set up tasker to play some specific music or other sound while the timer is running. In that way you might get used to hearing that sound while you do your task. Once you are used to this, you might quickly notice when the sound is not playing, and thus the timer is not running (or still playing when you finished your task).

[David MacIver]

FWIW, forgetting to start and stop timers is exactly why I moved to tagtime on my phone for some of my goals which I could legitimately just use a timer for (but I was already using it for a bunch of things where a timer wasn't a feasible solution, so it was lower cost to do that for me than it may be for you)

[Pankaj More]

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Brent Yorgey <byo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do you really need this fine print?  It sounds like this fine print about only using timer data points would only be helpful if you were (a) dishonest enough to enter fake data points, BUT (b) honest enough to abide by the fine print!  It sounds like (b) is true since you are apparently willing to redo goals just because of your fine print. So are you really worried about (a)?  If you are willing to abide by the fine print, why not just make the fine print say "no fake data points"?

I am worried about a because I used to do it in a previous life. Timers are harder to "fake" then manual data points. Maybe I can try this again and see if I need to still worry about (a).

Personally, I do this quite often (start doing a task but forget to start the timer).  As soon as I realize it, I typically (1) estimate the amount of time I have already spent and enter a data point, and then (2) start the timer.  I always try to estimate (1) as accurately as I can; I don't find myself tempted to report inflated estimates.  Over the long run, it probably all averages out.  Ideally, of course, I would always remember to start the timer---and I do try to remember---but realistically, there will always be times when I forget.  In fact, the times when I forget are often the times when I am being so productive/in the flow that I really *want* to do the goal, or I have made the goal an automatic habit, and I just get right on to doing it without remembering that I am supposed to track it!  That being the case, it seems particularly silly to penalize myself by saying the work I did without the timer running doesn't count, because I want to *encourage* this sort of behavior.

If you are really worried about this, however, it is exactly what TagTime is designed for: http://messymatters.com/tagtime/ .  You never have to worry about remembering to start a timer, in exchange for a loss of precision in measuring the amount of time spent doing any particular thing.  I find it works well for big goals, like spending 40 hours/week on work, or 10 hours/week on reading or research or studying, but it doesn't work well for smaller goals like spending 30 minutes or 1 hour per week doing something, because the variation is just too high.  (You could have TagTime ping you more frequently to get a higher resolution, but that just starts to get annoying and disruptive.)

How does Tagtime work on android? Last time I tried it was pretty distracting compared to the desktop version. Moreover, I have primarily switched to chromebooks and tagtime on desktop is not an option.

[Pankaj More]

tagtime on desktop makes a lot of sense. How do you use with on mobile without getting distracted? On desktop, it does not break the flow. On mobile, it feels like an interruption. 

Most of my goals are <= 30 mins//day and contiguous(done in one sitting). I am yet to see if any one is effectively able to use TagTime on android.

[David MacIver]

I mostly just don't find it that distracting. You get used to it just being a habitual thing you do when it pings. If it pings when you're really right in the middle of something you wait until you finish that something and then fill it in after. Once you're used to it I just don't find it that distracting.

As to "yet to see if any one is effectively able to use TagTime on android", well I have 9 goals that are powered by tagtime on android and have kept this up for most of the last 4 months without any real problem, so I guess I'm an existence proof?

[David MacIver]

Oh, also historically I used a system to keep me while ahead of the panic zone on goals so I could afford to have tagtime more coarse grained - when it only pings you once an hour or so it's not that distracting even when you're not used to it. Due to reasons I've stopped doing that so have had to ramp up the frequency, but it probably helped that I increased it gradually.

[Daniel Reeves]

Brent and David, brilliant responses here!
I was just going to chime in that if you do find yourself skating the
edge of a Beeminder road that's based on TagTime data, you can use
this tool to see the real-time probability of derailing and adjust
your panicking accordingly: tminder.meteor.com

Or a safer heuristic is don't go to sleep until you're in the right
lane (blue dots). That makes it roughly impossible for bad luck with
the random sampling to derail you.

http://dreev.es -- search://"Daniel Reeves"
Goal tracking + Commitment contracts == http://beeminder.com