Publicly accessible subschemas?

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Olof L

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May 23, 2019, 12:01:32 PM5/23/19
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Hi,

we are currently looking into developing a subschema of AKN that further sets out specific rules for the structure and content of documents. We are looking into using either schematron or xsd to this end.

Despite many instutitions using AKN, we can't find any other examples (except for the rather minimal adaption in Chile) of subschemas for us to compare our concept to. Does anybody have any suggestions in this regard?

Kind regards

Alexandre Rafalovitch

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May 23, 2019, 12:03:44 PM5/23/19
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Maybe AKN4UN : https://unsceb.org/content/akn4un

Regards,
     Alex

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Fabio Vitali

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May 23, 2019, 1:19:19 PM5/23/19
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Try http://akn.web.cs.unibo.it/akgenerator/

Best regards

Fabio Vitali
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Ashok Hariharan

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May 23, 2019, 1:19:58 PM5/23/19
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Hi Olof --

There is an AKN subschema generator:




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Fabio Vitali

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May 23, 2019, 1:22:34 PM5/23/19
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Great minds think alike!

Fabio

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Leps, Olof (init)

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May 23, 2019, 2:06:28 PM5/23/19
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Hi,


thanks a lot! 


We did know the subschema generator and also know the AKN4UN-Specification, but find that they are not really applicable to our case - do you know any other examples, possibly using schematron, too?


Kind regards

Olof


Von: akomant...@googlegroups.com <akomant...@googlegroups.com> im Auftrag von Fabio Vitali <fvi...@gmail.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Mai 2019 19:22:30
An: akomant...@googlegroups.com
Betreff: Re: [akomantoso-xml] Publicly accessible subschemas?
 
Great minds think alike!

Fabio

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> Il giorno 23 mag 2019, alle ore 19:19, Ashok Hariharan <as...@hariharan.org.in> ha scritto:
>
> Hi Olof --
>
> There is an AKN subschema generator:
>
> http://akn.web.cs.unibo.it/akgenerator/
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 9:33 PM Alexandre Rafalovitch <araf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe AKN4UN : https://unsceb.org/content/akn4un
>
> Regards,
>     Alex
>
> On Thu, May 23, 2019, 12:01 PM Olof L, <olof...@init.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> we are currently looking into developing a subschema of AKN that further sets out specific rules for the structure and content of documents. We are looking into using either schematron or xsd to this end.
>
> Despite many instutitions using AKN, we can't find any other examples (except for the rather minimal adaption in Chile) of subschemas for us to compare our concept to. Does anybody have any suggestions in this regard?
>
> Kind regards
>
> --
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>
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>
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Fabio Vitali                                          The sage and the fool
Dept. of Informatics                                     go to their graves
Univ. of Bologna  ITALY                               alike in this respect:
phone:  +39 051 2094872                  both believe the sage to be a fool.
e-mail: fa...@cs.unibo.it                  Where, then, may wisdom be found?
http://vitali.web.cs.unibo.it/   Qi, "Neither Yes nor No", The codeless code

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Fabio Vitali

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May 23, 2019, 3:26:41 PM5/23/19
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Dear Olof

The expressive power of Schematron is equivalent to that of XML Schema 1.1. Actually, Schematron rules can be applied only to individual tags, while XML Schema 1.1 assertions can be associated to Complex Types and thus be used much more flexibly.

In reality, XML Schema 1.1 mandates support only for a radically simplified syntax of XPath for co-constraints (see section 3.11.6.3 of the XML Schema 1.1 standard), and leaves to individual implementations the choice of implementing the full XPath 2.0 language as an option. Thus, assertions according to the requirements of XML Schema 1.1 can only use basically useless Xpaths. On the other hand, XSD1.1 validation engines exist that extend the reach of the XML Schema 1.1 requirements providing full XPath support.

At the moment, two XML parsers provide XML Schema 1.1 validation with full XPath support: Saxon Enterprise Edition (http://saxon.sourceforge.net/ ) which is a commercial application (the freeware Saxon Home Edition does not support it), and Apache Xerces (http://xerces.apache.org/ ), which is an open source tool.

To be more precise, the *last official release* of Xerces, 2.11.0 (dated 2010) provides only partial support for XML Schema and absolutely no full XPath. Since then, though, several unofficial betas have emerged, and the latest I checked, 2.12-beta-r1667115, DOES provide full XML Schema 1.1 and full XPath. Although not an official release, it appears to be a fairly stable application, as proved by the fact that well-known Java software project management tools such as Maven do routinely install version 2.12-beta-r1667115 when requested for a Xerces module.

So I do not see how switching to Schematron can help when you have XML Schema 1.1 with full XPath support available for free.

regards

Fabio Vitali

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> Il giorno 23 mag 2019, alle ore 20:06, Leps, Olof (init) <Olof...@init.de> ha scritto:
>
> Hi,
>
> thanks a lot!
>
> We did know the subschema generator and also know the AKN4UN-Specification, but find that they are not really applicable to our case - do you know any other examples, possibly using schematron, too?
>
> Kind regards
> Olof
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/akomantoso-xml/0db7e1eed5df4095b1d6178ba6d1fba6%40init.de.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


Matthew Lynch

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May 23, 2019, 4:46:42 PM5/23/19
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Hi Olof,

This might not be in point but on a project I'm working on for drafting UK and Scottish legislation in AKN, we've adopted an approach where we validate documents against both the full AKN schema and a custom schematron file we're developing. The schematron file encodes the more specific "business rules" of our jurisdiction  and enables us to mix structure-based rules (like a <chapter> may only be a child of a <part>) with rules that depend on the text content or pattern matching, for example. We were inspired to take this approach by another European legislative drafting software project who do the same.

So for us schematron isn't really a true "subschema" but it is used to effectively constrain what is permissible in our AKN documents.

We're currently working towards an imminent delivery deadline but once that is passed we should be in a position to share some stuff publicly. We'll definitely have something to show at the Ravenna Summer School. 

Kind regards,

-Matt Lynch
Parliamentary Counsel Office
Scottish Government

Monica Palmirani

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May 23, 2019, 6:40:22 PM5/23/19
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Dear all,

for examples see also here:

In attachment you can see the list of the use-cases and example bulks.

If you have more information about use-cases please add them in the file and resent it.

All the best,

Monica


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Akoma Ntoso-casi-uso.docx

Olof L

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May 27, 2019, 5:22:39 AM5/27/19
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Dear All,

dear Matt,

 

Thanks for the helpful insights into your project. Your use case sounds very similar to ours and we would appreciate the possibility to take a look at your work as soon as you’re ready to share.

 

In our context we want to implement both structural constraints (such as “a clause can contain either content or subclauses”) and content constraints (ie. logic based on attribute values). We’re currently considering two approaches to the formulation of these constraints:

 

Option A: All constraints asserted

Structural rules: XPath-based constraints (Schematron or XSD1.1 assertions)

Content rules: XPath-based constraints (Schematron or XSD1.1 assertions)

Validation: AKN-Schema and XPath-based ruleset for structure and content

 

Option B: Specified structures and asserted content

Structural rules: Custom XSD1.0 or XSD1.1 schema (overwriting AKN types)

Content rules: XPath-based Schematron rules in additions to custom XSD1.0 or constraints as XSD1.1 assertions within the same XSD1.1

Validation: AKN-schema and [custom XSD1.0 schema + Schematron rules] or AKN-schema and custom XSD1.1 schema

 

@Matt: From what I understand you’re pursuing option A, correct? We haven’t ruled out that option yet, but are a bit wary of the complexity involved in formulating (and maintaining) all our structural rules in a rule set free of contradictions. As we also intend to source a WYSIWYG-editor the issue of completion suggestions based on Schematron keeps cropping up.

 

@Fabio: Do you know of any XML-editors sufficiently Schematron-aware to offer completion suggestions based on Schematron/XPath-assertions?

 

Regards,

Olof

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