Selling the Digital Ops Name / Database?

[Josh Williams]

Hey Gang,

 MYTHLOGIC has expressed an interest in purchasing all virtual things Digital Ops. Official question to the board: Should we extend an offer back to them?

What do they want:

- The "Digital Ops" name

- digitalops.com

- mailing list (~1,800 subscribers)

- facebook page

- smartlaunch database

- history (Digital Ops = North America's longest running pc gaming center)

MYTHLOGIC presumably wants this for a few reasons

1) They would like to start a gaming center

 - Owning all the ops data gives them a jumpstart

2) They sell solutions to other gaming / future gaming centers

 - Owning the longest running one gives them some additional credibility

I have no idea how to appraise Digital Ops. Off the napkin, it brings in maybe $12,000 p/year. We could do a variety of things:

A) Offer it for an arbitrary amount, say: $2,000. 

 - That helps us cover our plan to purchase new PCs.

B) Offer to sell it for 5 New Computer Rigs, with legit Windows 7 Professional Licenses

 - Give them the specs, and be fair : )

C) Offer to sell it for 2% of gross income that their center generates.

 - No idea why. But that encourages us to help promote their company, which they might like.

D) Something completely different.

Thoughts? YAY! SO MUCH HAPPENING!

 - Josh W.

[Nathan Dotz]

Start at $150,000 and see what they say.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ahashop_directors" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ahashop_direct...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[Michael Grube]

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Nathan Dotz <natha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Start at $150,000 and see what they say.

+1

[Thomas Hunter]

2k does seem a bit low. I think we'd at least want to start off with double what it makes annually (24k). 

They will be more profitable with it than we are, so it will likely be worth more to them than us. 

[Michael Grube]

It may also be worth considering that they're going to want to talk us down from almost any number we give them. So maybe 30?

[Josh Williams]

Interesting!.

Some reference points:

1) AHA Paid $10k for:

 - Everything that MYTHLOGIC wants, plus:

 - Gaming workstations

 - Various computers

 - Various tools (Power Tools, Hand Tools, etc.)

 - Consoles

 - Game collection

 - Existing stream of customers

 - Uninterrupted access to existing location (ie: By buying Ops, we probably saved ourselves months of work)

MYTH only wants the virtual stuff. 

2) I can't honestly ask for more than $5k without expecting someone to throw poop at my face; )

I hope that helps add some perspective ; )

  - Josh W.

[nathan dotz]

Don't forget the fact that while we don't use it effectively, the explicit information that we have (2,000 people who are willing to come to a LAN center in the local area) has an incalculable value to a new business looking to cater to people who want to come to a LAN center in the local area. I know that also, Digital Ops is a waning light in downtown Ann Arbor, but I still meet people when I'm out traveling or at user groups in their 30s who remember coming down and playing when they were in college. The Digital Ops name may not be immediately *profitable* to us, but it does carry a lot of *value*. Not asking a premium for the name and the information that we can provide to Mythlogic (information which would inevitably launch them into making any gaming services AHA provides inconsequential) would be doing a disservice to our ability to utilize resources, as well as the hard work we've undergone maintaining an underdog through all these years.

Just because we don't aggressively market to the gamers doesn't mean those gamers don't have money to bring us if we ask for it. That's just not our MO.

If there are 1800 subscribers, with a 25% conversion rate after the announcement of that's 450 new customers they get hooked on whatever new deal they have to offer our gamers. At a measly $100 a month revenue for their new-fangled facility from each of those gamers, that's $540,000 of revenue in the first year. In less optimistic terms, a 10% conversion rate at $50 a month would still snag them $108,000 of revenue in the first year. 10% conversion is an entirely feasible amount assuming they have a solid value proposition, and our database is already targeted to the market they want to serve.

150,000 is an entirely valid offer -- we should sell at the value to the business that wants to buy it, not at the value of the resource as we have been utilizing.

--
@nathandotz

github.com/sleepynate | www.sleepynate.com

On Wednesday, March 27, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Michael Grube wrote:

> It may also be worth considering that they're going to want to talk us down from almost any number we give them. So maybe 30?
>

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Thomas Hunter <m...@thomashunter.name (mailto:m...@thomashunter.name)> wrote:
> > 2k does seem a bit low. I think we'd at least want to start off with double what it makes annually (24k).
> >
> > They will be more profitable with it than we are, so it will likely be worth more to them than us.
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, March 27, 2013, Michael Grube wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Nathan Dotz <natha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Start at $150,000 and see what they say.
> > >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mar 26, 2013 11:57 PM, "Josh Williams" <josh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Hey Gang,
> > > > >
> > > > > MYTHLOGIC has expressed an interest in purchasing all virtual things Digital Ops. Official question to the board: Should we extend an offer back to them?
> > > > >
> > > > > What do they want:
> > > > >
> > > > > - The "Digital Ops" name

> > > > > - digitalops.com (http://digitalops.com)

> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ahashop_direct...@googlegroups.com (mailto:ahashop_directors%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com).

> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ahashop_directors" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ahashop_direct...@googlegroups.com (mailto:ahashop_direct...@googlegroups.com).

[Thomas Hunter]

Sounds like it might not be wise to sell digital ops then.

Thomas Hunter

programmer

blog: thomashunter.name

twitter: @tlhunter

github: github.com/tlhunter

phone: 989-513-5499

[Josh Williams]

Nate: I think we have very different views on Ops / customer base / value, but you've put more thought into it than I am prepared to, and I think you're probably around more people who are in the business of making money than I have been for quite some time : )

Charlie & Jeff are the best people to talk to over at MYTHLOGIC, they can be reached via: cha...@mythlogic.com and jcl...@mythlogic.com

I think a pro-active involvement on my part would probably be a hindrance, let me know if you want an awesome introduction, I'd be happy to do so!

 - Josh W.

[nathan dotz]

I'm really not in a position to speak for the board, but let's face it: we have explicitly NOT been pursuing running a business based around gaming for a long time. We explicitly have NOT been attempting to place too much value in the Ops customer base, because that is not the type of place that we have been trying to be for a number of years.

Assumedly if they are a new for-profit business that wants to grow into the LAN gaming market (or at least a new facility for an existing business), they are going to be using this information and name explicitly TO create monetary value based on that information and name. Just because we don't use its value doesn't mean we should undercut that value just to sell it off.

Losing this resource *has* to provide us enough financial stability (a couple years of rent) to make AHA self-sustaining based on our education and outreach programs or it will more than likely sink us. Under-cutting that and taking "whatever we can get for it" will be more of a burden than a weight off our shoulders.

At a minimum I would like to see:

The remainder of our debt to IQGuys paid off
Some number of new machines for dual-purpose gaming and education
2 years rent and utilities

That said -- again start at 150k and if they don't like it, ask them why not and what *they* value our business at.
--
@nathandotz

github.com/sleepynate | www.sleepynate.com

On Wednesday, March 27, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Josh Williams wrote:

>
> Nate: I think we have very different views on Ops / customer base / value, but you've put more thought into it than I am prepared to, and I think you're probably around more people who are in the business of making money than I have been for quite some time : )
>

> Charlie & Jeff are the best people to talk to over at MYTHLOGIC, they can be reached via: cha...@mythlogic.com (mailto:cha...@mythlogic.com) and jcl...@mythlogic.com (mailto:jcl...@mythlogic.com)

>
> I think a pro-active involvement on my part would probably be a hindrance, let me know if you want an awesome introduction, I'd be happy to do so!
>
> - Josh W.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 10:36 AM, nathan dotz <natha...@gmail.com (mailto:natha...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > Don't forget the fact that while we don't use it effectively, the explicit information that we have (2,000 people who are willing to come to a LAN center in the local area) has an incalculable value to a new business looking to cater to people who want to come to a LAN center in the local area. I know that also, Digital Ops is a waning light in downtown Ann Arbor, but I still meet people when I'm out traveling or at user groups in their 30s who remember coming down and playing when they were in college. The Digital Ops name may not be immediately *profitable* to us, but it does carry a lot of *value*. Not asking a premium for the name and the information that we can provide to Mythlogic (information which would inevitably launch them into making any gaming services AHA provides inconsequential) would be doing a disservice to our ability to utilize resources, as well as the hard work we've undergone maintaining an underdog through all these years.
> >
> > Just because we don't aggressively market to the gamers doesn't mean those gamers don't have money to bring us if we ask for it. That's just not our MO.
> >
> > If there are 1800 subscribers, with a 25% conversion rate after the announcement of that's 450 new customers they get hooked on whatever new deal they have to offer our gamers. At a measly $100 a month revenue for their new-fangled facility from each of those gamers, that's $540,000 of revenue in the first year. In less optimistic terms, a 10% conversion rate at $50 a month would still snag them $108,000 of revenue in the first year. 10% conversion is an entirely feasible amount assuming they have a solid value proposition, and our database is already targeted to the market they want to serve.
> >
> > 150,000 is an entirely valid offer -- we should sell at the value to the business that wants to buy it, not at the value of the resource as we have been utilizing.
> >
> > --
> > @nathandotz
> >

> > github.com/sleepynate (http://github.com/sleepynate) | www.sleepynate.com (http://www.sleepynate.com)

> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, March 27, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Michael Grube wrote:
> >
> > > It may also be worth considering that they're going to want to talk us down from almost any number we give them. So maybe 30?
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Thomas Hunter <m...@thomashunter.name (mailto:m...@thomashunter.name) (mailto:m...@thomashunter.name)> wrote:
> > > > 2k does seem a bit low. I think we'd at least want to start off with double what it makes annually (24k).
> > > >
> > > > They will be more profitable with it than we are, so it will likely be worth more to them than us.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday, March 27, 2013, Michael Grube wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Nathan Dotz <natha...@gmail.com (mailto:natha...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > Start at $150,000 and see what they say.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > +1
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mar 26, 2013 11:57 PM, "Josh Williams" <josh...@gmail.com (mailto:josh...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hey Gang,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > MYTHLOGIC has expressed an interest in purchasing all virtual things Digital Ops. Official question to the board: Should we extend an offer back to them?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What do they want:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - The "Digital Ops" name

> > > > > > > - digitalops.com (http://digitalops.com) (http://digitalops.com)

> > > > > > > - mailing list (~1,800 subscribers)
> > > > > > > - facebook page
> > > > > > > - smartlaunch database
> > > > > > > - history (Digital Ops = North America's longest running pc gaming center)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > MYTHLOGIC presumably wants this for a few reasons
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1) They would like to start a gaming center
> > > > > > > - Owning all the ops data gives them a jumpstart
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2) They sell solutions to other gaming / future gaming centers
> > > > > > > - Owning the longest running one gives them some additional credibility
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have no idea how to appraise Digital Ops. Off the napkin, it brings in maybe $12,000 p/year. We could do a variety of things:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A) Offer it for an arbitrary amount, say: $2,000.
> > > > > > > - That helps us cover our plan to purchase new PCs.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > B) Offer to sell it for 5 New Computer Rigs, with legit Windows 7 Professional Licenses
> > > > > > > - Give them the specs, and be fair : )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > C) Offer to sell it for 2% of gross income that their center generates.
> > > > > > > - No idea why. But that encourages us to help promote their company, which they might like.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > D) Something completely different.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thoughts? YAY! SO MUCH HAPPENING!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Josh W.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ahashop_directors" group.

> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ahashop_direct...@googlegroups.com (mailto:ahashop_directors%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ahashop_directors" group.
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ahashop_direct...@googlegroups.com (mailto:ahashop_directors%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ahashop_directors" group.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ahashop_direct...@googlegroups.com (mailto:ahashop_directors%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com).
> > > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ahashop_directors" group.

> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ahashop_direct...@googlegroups.com (mailto:ahashop_directors%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:ahashop_directors%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com (mailto:ahashop_directors%252Buns...@googlegroups.com)).

> > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ahashop_directors" group.

> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ahashop_direct...@googlegroups.com (mailto:ahashop_directors%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com) (mailto:ahashop_direct...@googlegroups.com (mailto:ahashop_directors%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com)).

[Josh Williams]

Wunderbar, I jumped the gun and offered $10k.

MYTH crew say they're willing to pay somewhere in the $500 to $1000 range.

I'll let you guys flesh that out, but let's give them a response in the next few days so this doesn't hang around in our brain matter unnecessarily long?

 - Josh W.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ahashop_direct...@googlegroups.com.

[Michael S]

Is this the same group that we paid off in the first place?.....I feel like more and more Mythlogic had been screwing us over....

--

Michael H. Senkow | 906.281.4672

[Thomas Hunter]

They want to pay $500 to $1000 total? I vote no way in hell. 

[Michael Grube]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Thomas Hunter <m...@thomashunter.name> wrote:

They want to pay $500 to $1000 total? I vote no way in hell. 

Yup. Not even close to enough. No sale - they're trying to play us because they know we need money. 

Let's have some backbone and tell them where to put their offer.

 

--

[Michael Grube]

I know that Mythlogic has worked with us and presented a very caring attitude, etc, but it is very difficult not to perceive this as a complete ripoff.