Re: Salary for Scrum Master

[Kenneth Loh - CSM, PRINCE2 Practitioner, PMP]

ScrumMaster is a role which people from any designation can take up provided they have the necessary skill- and mind-set. The salary normally pegs to their job designations.

On Friday, March 1, 2013 5:08:14 PM UTC+8, Pratomo Ardianto wrote:

Hi all, just curious, what's the range salary for Scrum Master actually?

Hopefully some of the senior Scrum Master here willing to share :)

Thanks in advance.

[Bas Vodde]

Hi Kenneth,

This is not really true. In better Scrum organizations the hob designation is ScrumMaster, not anything else.

Bas

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[Bas Vodde]

Hiya,

I have no idea. It varies so much from company to company I think.

Neither do I find the question relevant or interesting. I've not seen a good ScrumMaster that chose his job because it paid well.

I do know that all the really good ScrumMaster's I know have ended up ok financially and in jobs they like.

Bas


On 3 Mar, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Pratomo Ardianto <ard...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So how much the salary range then? :)
> And is there any specific measurement for this? ie: number of projects succeed, years of experience, etc.
>
> Thanks

[Adrian Cumiskey]

Like Kenneth said, its a role that some agile teams assign to help chair/provide leadership to the group - IMO it shouldn't ever be a job title/description - it is an unfortunate turn of phrase which was probably originally defined with a little humor and tongue in cheek along with the pigs and the chickens.

If you are looking for satisfaction and financial rewards down the line, my advice is to focus on working hard on refining your software development craft and not on attaining a "Senior Scrum Master Management Consultant Blah etc" designation.

Cheers, Adrian.

[Bas Vodde]

Hi Adrian,

> Like Kenneth said, its a role that some agile teams assign to help chair/provide leadership to the group - IMO it shouldn't ever be a job title/description - it is an unfortunate turn of phrase which was probably originally defined with a little humor and tongue in cheek along with the pigs and the chickens.

I definitively do not agree with this :) This suggests a role of a ScrumMaster to be temporary and only inwards focus, a huge mistake in my experience. In the best Scrum organizations I've seen, a ScrumMaster is a job, not just "a role within the team". Having it just a role within the team is likely to lead to a rather shallow adoption. (especially when you keep the "project manager" job still around)

> If you are looking for satisfaction and financial rewards down the line, my advice is to focus on working hard on refining your software development craft and not on attaining a "Senior Scrum Master Management Consultant Blah etc" designation.

Agree :)

Bas

[Erwin Bolwidt]

On 3/3/13 10:28 PM, Bas Vodde wrote:
>
> Hi Adrian,
>
>> Like Kenneth said, its a role that some agile teams assign to help chair/provide leadership to the group - IMO it shouldn't ever be a job title/description - it is an unfortunate turn of phrase which was probably originally defined with a little humor and tongue in cheek along with the pigs and the chickens.
>
> I definitively do not agree with this :) This suggests a role of a ScrumMaster to be temporary and only inwards focus, a huge mistake in my experience. In the best Scrum organizations I've seen, a ScrumMaster is a job, not just "a role within the team". Having it just a role within the team is likely to lead to a rather shallow adoption. (especially when you keep the "project manager" job still around)
>
>> If you are looking for satisfaction and financial rewards down the line, my advice is to focus on working hard on refining your software development craft and not on attaining a "Senior Scrum Master Management Consultant Blah etc" designation.
>
> Agree :)

I would also suggest to learn more about the business of the company or
the department that you're in, so you can have better discussions with
the product owner and be more valuable to the company in general. I
think the most worthwhile developers are those who are great at both
software development and understanding the business.

Erwin

[Adrian Cumiskey]

On 3 March 2013 22:28, Bas Vodde <ba...@odd-e.com> wrote:

Hi Adrian,

> Like Kenneth said, its a role that some agile teams assign to help chair/provide leadership to the group - IMO it shouldn't ever be a job title/description - it is an unfortunate turn of phrase which was probably originally defined with a little humor and tongue in cheek along with the pigs and the chickens.

I definitively do not agree with this :) This suggests a role of a ScrumMaster to be temporary and only inwards focus, a huge mistake in my experience. In the best Scrum organizations I've seen, a ScrumMaster is a job, not just "a role within the team". Having it just a role within the team is likely to lead to a rather shallow adoption. (especially when you keep the "project manager" job still around)

Horses for courses.  The Scrum Master role is certainly more relevant in larger organizations where you are likely to come across more impediments and politics and require more protection from business interference.  I'd argue that this role as a full-time job is a luxury that most smaller organizations cannot afford.  In smaller companies, dare I say leaner outfits there are also usually less of these kind of problems.  I also think it is better for team dynamics in smaller environments that everyone actively contributes code to the delivery.  Everyone can then look each other in the eye with respect and be seen to be pulling their weight.

Adrian.

[Erwin Bolwidt]

Hi Pratomo,

I think it's not possible to answer your question. There are too many
factors on which it depends. Can you give me the salary range for a
software developer? Or a manager?
I bet it can differ 10-fold (or more) depending on the qualities of the
individual, the business of and the size of the company, etc.

You can google for "salary range for a scrum master" and there are some
results but I doubt that they are useful for your company. It's probably
better to look for someone who is a good fit for the company, see what
they ask and see if that is reasonable compared to the other roles and
responsibilities that you have in your company.

Erwin


On 3/3/13 10:44 PM, Pratomo Ardianto wrote:
> Hi all, thx for the reply so far.
> Not sure whether my question is too simple or 'not interesting enough' :)
> But I find that your reply so far are interesting, thx again.
>
> Anyway, we have small team in my company, and I'm willing to adopt Scrum
> for development.
> I my self just got CSM certification recently, but I'm more on the
> 'Team'. We also have (well, it is so-called) Product Owner now.
> Now what we need is Scrum Master in order to adopt Scrum fully or correctly.
>
> So not sure whether we going to hire one or grab someone within our
> team? so if we need to hire one, what's the standard requirement for that?
> I my self to be honest not confident enough if I offer my self to Scrum
> Master as I still love to develop :) and of course this role can not mix
> with other role, I believed.
>
> Besides, I also seen in this group someone post a job looking for Scrum
> Master, so I thought Scrum Master is also job designation, and a career too.
>
> And for Adrian, yes, I do working on refining our software development
> craft :)

> >> On 3 March 2013 22:01, Bas Vodde <ba...@odd-e.com <javascript:>>

> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hiya,
> >>
> >> I have no idea. It varies so much from company to company I think.
> >>
> >> Neither do I find the question relevant or interesting. I've not
> seen a good ScrumMaster that chose his job because it paid well.
> >>
> >> I do know that all the really good ScrumMaster's I know have
> ended up ok financially and in jobs they like.
> >>
> >> Bas
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3 Mar, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Pratomo Ardianto <ard...@gmail.com

[Bas Vodde]

Hiya,

>>> If you are looking for satisfaction and financial rewards down the line, my advice is to focus on working hard on refining your software development craft and not on attaining a "Senior Scrum Master Management Consultant Blah etc" designation.
>>
>> Agree :)
>
> I would also suggest to learn more about the business of the company or the department that you're in, so you can have better discussions with the product owner and be more valuable to the company in general. I think the most worthwhile developers are those who are great at both software development and understanding the business.

Also agree :)

Bas

>
> Erwin
>
>>
>> Bas
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers, Adrian.
>>>
>>> On 3 March 2013 22:01, Bas Vodde <ba...@odd-e.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hiya,
>>>
>>> I have no idea. It varies so much from company to company I think.
>>>
>>> Neither do I find the question relevant or interesting. I've not seen a good ScrumMaster that chose his job because it paid well.
>>>
>>> I do know that all the really good ScrumMaster's I know have ended up ok financially and in jobs they like.
>>>
>>> Bas
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3 Mar, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Pratomo Ardianto <ard...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So how much the salary range then? :)
>>>> And is there any specific measurement for this? ie: number of projects succeed, years of experience, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, March 2, 2013 5:07:03 PM UTC+8, Bas Vodde wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Kenneth,
>>>>
>>>> This is not really true. In better Scrum organizations the hob designation is ScrumMaster, not anything else.
>>>>
>>>> Bas
>>>>
>>>> On 2 Mar, 2013, at 4:11 PM, "Kenneth Loh - CSM, PRINCE2 Practitioner, PMP" <kenl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ScrumMaster is a role which people from any designation can take up provided they have the necessary skill- and mind-set. The salary normally pegs to their job designations.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, March 1, 2013 5:08:14 PM UTC+8, Pratomo Ardianto wrote:
>>>>> Hi all, just curious, what's the range salary for Scrum Master actually?
>>>>> Hopefully some of the senior Scrum Master here willing to share :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>>
>

[Bas Vodde]

Hola Adrian,

> I definitively do not agree with this :) This suggests a role of a ScrumMaster to be temporary and only inwards focus, a huge mistake in my experience. In the best Scrum organizations I've seen, a ScrumMaster is a job, not just "a role within the team". Having it just a role within the team is likely to lead to a rather shallow adoption. (especially when you keep the "project manager" job still around)
>
> Horses for courses. The Scrum Master role is certainly more relevant in larger organizations where you are likely to come across more impediments and politics and require more protection from business interference. I'd argue that this role as a full-time job is a luxury that most smaller organizations cannot afford. In smaller companies, dare I say leaner outfits there are also usually less of these kind of problems. I also think it is better for team dynamics in smaller environments that everyone actively contributes code to the delivery. Everyone can then look each other in the eye with respect and be seen to be pulling their weight.

Yes, perhaps. This depends so much on the context. I've discovered that there are many smaller start-ups that are even more traditional than large organizations. They also often suffer from "tyranny of the owner".

The ScrumMaster's job is to make the team and the organization work more smoothly. In other words, it is to help to increase the output of the organisation. As long as there is enough work on this front, I'd argue that saying "cannot afford" is a sub-optimisation. Making everybody look busy will definitively not improve the output… That said, I do agree that some small companies have a good environment and a full-time ScrumMaster isn't needed. It depends a lot on the company and on what you call "small" :)

Bas

[Wayne McFadden]

Can someone tell me what makes a good scrum master.

[Bas Vodde]

I’d argue it depends more on company and experience than on role ;)

Bas

[James Chua]

dunno if they qualiy as scrum master ?

The following people have been employed for annual salaries of one dollar:

Eric Schmidt

Meg Whitman

• Muhammad Ali Jinnah (Founder of Pakistan), as the first Governor General of Pakistan, fixed his salary to be 1 rupee without any other compensation.^[16]
• N. R. Narayana Murthy (Co-Founder of Infosys)^[17]
• Michael Bloomberg (Mayor of New York City)
• Sergey Brin (Google)^[18]
• Larry Ellison (Oracle Corporation)
• Darren Entwistle (TELUS)^[19]
• Richard Fairbank (Capital One Financial)^[20]
• Lee Iacocca (Chrysler Corporation)
• Steve Jobs (Apple), also did not take any alternative form of compensation (stock options, bonus, etc.) since 2003^[21][22][23]

> Subject: Re: [agilesingapore] Re: Salary for Scrum Master
> From: ba...@odd-e.com
> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 10:00:12 +0800
> To: agilesi...@googlegroups.com

[Rick Lim]

A Scrum Master IMHO has to understand both human and business well. It's value is huge to keep the company being Agile. I do not think we can gauge from the age or number of project experience a person has to decide if he/she is a good Scrum Master. The requirements are too intangible to be measurable. Salary range is often not in my consideration, because employment is just another business transaction. As long as both the buyer and seller agree on the price, deal is on. The hiring company should focus on getting the person with the correct elements than the price they are asking. A diamond is just another form of stone to me, but it's a gem to my wife.

[Ruslan Popov]

Bob Diamond, the ex CEO of Barclays Capital. Took a $1 annual salary and no bonus a few years back, when I was working there.

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Best regards,
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[Stuart Turner]

Hi Wayne

I think your question was overlooked by other responders, probably because you're reusing an email for a different question.

I think your question is very broad and my answer is equally so.

A scrum master helps improve the working environment so a team and product owner can continually learn and improve themselves and their product.

How they might do that depends on the context.

It seems a good topic for the next meet up on 28 January. Will you be attending?

Stuart