Best chip?

[Dioxin]

Dogbone Momza R6 is often mentioned as one of the best chips.

I agree.

But never mentioned is that the chips come with 2 types of adhesive.

The standard water based acrylic adhesive is ok if dry but it can wash off after an hour's soak.

The same company also make chips a waterproof adhesive. It's sometimes called Adhesive+:

https://www.atlasrfidstore.com/smartrac-r6-dogbone-rfid-wet-inlay-monza-r6-adhesive-plus/

If you need the chip to remain attached to a bib in all weather and even across multiple events over mulyiple days then use the waterproof adhesive.

I've had them last a whole winter cross country season without problems.

Attach the chip to the back of the bib. Issue the bib at the start of the season. The runner then just turns up at each race with the same chipped bib and gets on with the race.

No need  for the admin of issuing new bibs/chips each race and no need to collect them in afterwards as they only cost $0.15 for the season.

[Rivalry Timing]

Do you think the Dogbone with Monza R6 chip wet inlay tag is noticeably better than an Alien 9662 wet inlay that Brian sells and uses? Does it matter? I've read the Dogbone Monza R6's have 'better sensitivity, longer read range, etc.", but haven't used them yet.

[Brian Brian.S.Agee]

Oh yes, the Dogbone is noticably better than all other tags I tested back when I was trying to decide which one to use.

I chose the 9662 simply because when when worn on the shoe or hip they reliably produced 100% read rates and we're a lot smaller than the Dogbone tags. Also with the Dogbone tags we would have to buy an unreal quantity to get the same price as the alien tags.

I tell people that if they are going to use bib tags, go with the Dogbone tags.

[mstompro]

I️ use the dogbone for bike races and they are remarkably better. I️ had a race volunteer drive “near”my finish line with some bibs and chips of DNS racers that were inside a file box inside his car and my antennas caught every tag.

[Christian C.]

I have been using Alien H3 9654 (Wet inlay) and it's been very reliable @$0.10ea for 5000tags including shipping and duty. They also have better sensitivity then the 9662.

https://easrfid.en.alibaba.com/product/60235879827-804987389/High_quality_RFID_860_960MHz_Alien_9654_wet_inlay_with_H3_chip.html

[Oscar's Race Results]

Someone please unconfuse me on what the best tag is.  I see references below to Monza R6 chip being better than an Alien 9662.   Somewhere online, probably from ShangHai,  that Monza R6 and Alien H3 iare chips and that 9662 is the antenna part of a chip.  I figured Dogbone was a trademark of somebody like whoever owns the Smartrac trademark.   But Atlas RIFD has lots of different Smartrac Dogbones.  Reading below "....is better than the Alien 9662 wet inlay that Brian sells and uses."  Yet Brian's post begins with "The dogbone is noticeably better than all the other tags I tested.  

Repeat, someone please unconfuse me.     Has anybody's opinion of the best chip changed recently based on price or performance?

Thanks,

Oscar

[rtspt.usa]

for bibs, smartrac dogbone r6 (wet inlay) is the best.

for shoes the dogbone might be a little too big so for shoes chips you might want to use what art sells.

it all depends on your set up and needs.

[Ohio Race Day]

I'm with rtspt.usa,

The Smartrac Dogbone style tag works best on bib numbers.  We just got done with a 5,000 count roll of them with the Monza 4D chip on it and had few problems.  The new roll of Smartrac Dogbones has the Monza R6 chip and it should perform even better.  Agee sells reusable laminated shoe tags that work well also.  They are the Alien 9662 brand.  For other applications (triathlons, adventure races) we sometimes use Hu-tags with neoprene ankle wrap.  Those are bullet-proof in my opinion.  They work great.

[Tim Irvine]

Smartrac Monza R6 is one of the best. But if you have been using Monza D4 on Road ID bibs and putting them between the 2 pin hols at the edge of the bib, you may need to put it just inside the holes with the R6. The overall footprint of the two tags is identical in terms of the amount of space, but the R6 is a little longer, so if you were to try to place the R6 in between the 2 pins holes, it will be exposed to the pins. I am sure that would not be a great thing. Sure it would still likely read, but I never chance it when I don't have to. 

  I cut my own foam and had loads of foam cut for the Monza D4 chips and found they don't quiet cover the R6 chip. But that is me cutting the foam. I am sure if you buy the precut foam, they will still cover the whole chip.

[JK Race Timing Systems]

Hi Tim

interesting point about the foam not covering the chips.

I myself use door seal foam and cut it into 3/4 inch strips.

Then the tags are laminated.

One strip goes horizontally across the chip top and bottom and then another strip vertically across the middle of the tag. It is impossible for any part of the tag to be contacted to a wet shirt or body and yet most of the tag has an air gap (Which is the best insulator of all)

I found since I started doing this I have had 99% read rates constantly.

Very cheap way of doing it too.

A 10 meter roll of that foam would cost approx 1.50 euro.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that the Monza R6 is by far the best tag, I done a lot of testing on the cheaper 3d frog thinking it was going to be better ( Not affetcted by orientation) but this proved not the case in real live racing

JK

[Tim Irvine]

I only used 3D Frogs 1 time. Mostly due to cost. But I did get 100% reads that 1 time.

[Oscar's Race Results]

That reasoning makes sense.  I compared reads on Smart Trac / Monza / Dogbones vs Alien / H3 / 9662 and came to same conclusion about sensitivity.

In one test, I covered some tags with a wet (worse than damp) washcloth and they still read fine or at least seemed to...through the washcloth.   

So what ARE the problems with water or sweat?   Loosens glue after a while?  Salt conductivity causing shorting out?  Eventual water infiltration absorbs microwaves?.  

Monza is right up there with ChronoTrack.  Did notice that if you set an Alien next to a ChronoTrack it does not read as well. 

Related subject:  I assume that somebody has used ART as a mid-race split getter or announcer for a ChronoTrack race.   Does anybody know the algorithm (if one exists) to convert the hex read on a ChronoTrack tag to the bib number printed on the tag?   Be nice to be able do it without using pointers (hex #)  to pointers (bib #)  to objects (participant). 

Oscar 

[rtspt.usa]

Moisture kills uhf frequencies.. think of it as Swiss cheese effect for reads.  Pockets of dead reads.. foam spacers and double tagging reduce its effect.

Chronotrack encodes another step in the hex.

They are very protective of their product.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

[Oscar's Race Results]

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/inventory-management-adhesive-rfid-uhf-sticker_60621649113.html?spm=a2700.9171878.c2059.157.3953vzAZvzAZWu

Link to an Alibaba ad for chips.  Isn't one of those an Alien H3 9662 advertised at $.052 with only a 2,500 minimum ($130ish)?  Is there a catch?

Oscar 

[Christian C.]

No catch, just make sure you order the tags that have a PET top overlay (and not paper).

[Jon Hughes]

Which one do I want to order? coated paper or PP synthetic paper? The tags I have now have a slick or wax paper backing that protects them from moisture.

[Oscar's Race Results]

I put 9654's on bibs for a race yesterday with door seal foam over 15 out of the 17 in very humid conditions and got 100% reads of all 17.  I got three batches of 100 each at shade under $.13 per chip with shipping.  These came with an effective adhesive.  Delivery was in about 2 weeks.  

https://rfid.aliexpress.com/store/401185

[John Kirby]

I use the 

SMARTRAC R6 DOGBONE RFID WET INLAY (MONZA R6)

and they work great! Also, I get them 5000 at a time from Atlasrfidstore.com for about the same price. $0.132 per tag    https://www.atlasrfidstore.com/smartrac-r6-dogbone-rfid-wet-inlay-monza-r6/

Use the code "AgeeTiming50"  and you will get up to $50.00 off your shipping, which for me is free shipping. Usually about 5 days ship to Pennsylvania.