Mat Antenna

[Lamont Hayes]

Does anyone know if a lynx timing mat will connect to the fx7500? Their 2.5m mat is only $750 so it looks like the best bang for the buck. It is hard to convince some older xc guys that judge by the chest that shoe tags are the way to go so I am looking to add bibs and a mat. Trusses don't really appeal to me since I am a hs coach that doesn't do any road races.

[Ohio Race Day]

Not sure.  But it looks like they are a different frequency and have a different connection (british naval connection = BNC).   some specs and website below.   others can verify for us.  I'm sorta looking for a mat antenna as well.

Additional Information

Dimensions	500 × 120 cm
Power Input	Powered externally via coaxial cable by the Tag Reader
Materials	Blue “Safe & Soft” fabric
Loop Detail	1 turn for RX, 4 turns for TX
Operating Frequency	Transmit: 125 kHz, Receive Tag Signal: 6.8 MHz
Connections	RG58 coaxial cable & BNC connector, 3-core cable & Hirschmann ST Series 3-way connector

http://www.finishlynx.com/product/rfid-chip-timing/5m-rfid-capture-mat/

[Lamont Hayes]

I noticed the diff frequencies and figured as much. Just wanted clarification since they would not respond! Looks like the RM mats may be the best option

[reece.bell]

Check it out

http://www.finishlynx.com/product/category/rfid-chip-timing/

[rtspt.usa]

ya, those are IPICO mats.. dual frequency system. mats have 2 loops, one to energize the chip and the other to read.. rock solid system..not affected by bodies or moisture.

[Lamont Hayes]

What types of ground antenna are people using with this system? I see that Impinj has a threshold antenna that Chronotrack uses for under 400 bucks. I only time xc races on my home course so I am looking for the cheapest ground antenna that works with the Motorola fx7500. We don't charge for weekday meets so the shoe tags are fine but I would like the option of using bibs with mats for our Invitational if possible.

[Ohio Race Day]

See the link below for the RM Timing Performance Mat antenna.  I'm looking at this one as I've seen a couple guys here using it.  
http://www.rmtimingsystems.com/Shop/Detail/RM-Timing-Performance-Mat-Antenna

This one didn't get a good review.  Search the forum for that discussion.
http://www.times-7.com/rtas-uhf-rfid-race-timing-antenna-system.html

Also Hu-Tag is developing a thin mat antenna now.  They are testing it currently.

[rtspt.usa]

something to note for xc timers..the rm timing mats are not made for spikes.but they do have a ramp style antenna/mat that is.

the impinj threshold antenna would work.. i think there are different models out there with different frequencies and connectors.. they are relatively small so i am not sure how many you would need to cover a typical finish line.

[Brian Agee]

Ohio is correct, that uses a different frequency. So not only can the reader not use it, but the UHF tags wouldn't be seen by that antenna. It's been a while since I've looked into it, but I'm pretty sure IPico doesn't use UHF for the race timing hardware they offer.

[Ohio Race Day]

I did a little searching and found the actual manufacturer of the RM Timing Systems mat.  They have a better price (without mark up) of $685 each compared to $845 each.  I'm going to email them for a quote for two shipped to the US with the cable connections that I need.

http://store.rfdesign.com.au/rfid-mat-antenna-fcc-915mhz-vert-pol/

[Peak Performance Timing]

Thanks Ohio.

[back40timing]

IPICO uses a dual frequency system. Their antennas will NOT work with UHF chips. Speaking of IPICO, any chance of an interface allowing IPICO chip files to be read by Agee scoring software? Please????  

[Alan Bingham]

I'd like to know why I see so many people trying to get mat antenna's to work with this system, I personally like the antennas on the side, but if I were going to try and put disposable chips on bibs, I'd rather use a truss with a couple of these antennas angled downward from overhead than try and use mat antennas facing up.

frankly I like the side antenna, I think about bike races, where this would work great because there's nothing to run over, I also run a Track & Field team, so I like these because there's nothing to put onto the track, this works much better and It would read quite a ways out into lane 6 or so I believe.

So why the push to buy an antenna that cost close to a grand while I've got 4 of them that cost $88 each. tell me what I'm missing.

[Peak Performance Timing]

Alan,

I agree with you.....BUT, I am investgating mats ONLY FOR CHIP STARTS, with the side mount/ overhead antennas I average only about 86 % read rate at the crowded starts at bigger races, people blocking reads, I feel mats at start might be a solution to this.

[Ohio Race Day]

Alan,
I'm not sure "so many" are looking at mat antennas.  Some are but most seem to be doing fine with side panel antennas.  Here are my early Pros and Cons on the topic as I've just started experimenting with my mat antennas.  I've used them for three events so far with the initial goal of capturing tags that were tucked into shoelaces.

Pros

- allows for a wider finish line
- may pick up more tags on a chip start

- picks up tags under laces

- may give option for accurate bib tag reads, more testing needed

- clean appearance, less cable mess

- need a mat across finish anyway to protect cables stretching to other side

- finish line read area is tighter with linear polarization and not spread back into the chute with antennas lined up in a gauntlet

- first race 100% read rate when used with side antennas

Cons

- price

- price again

- transport and set up is a slight PITA

- not perfect 100% read rate when used alone in test

[Tim Irvine]

I know I like the polished look! I still have my Imping Threshlod Antennas and once I get another reader I plan to buy later this year, I will use them again for the start in much the same way. I do need to get better mats to use with them. The current drop over ramps are ok, but not as slick as the Ipico, Mylaps or even Race Result ramps. But the ramps with flap doors are somewhat pricey! 

[Kenneth Peters]

I like the idea of mats but just to a thought to achieve some of you pro's if you don't like the mats.  We use a dig trust that allows us a 15' to 20' finish line, as you can see here.  It allows us to hide an antenna up top to try to pick up tucked in tags, less tripods to put up, we can hide most of our cables by strapping to the post and we can run both sides with out something on the ground by running the cables over the top.  Love your set, would like to combine the some of yours with ours.

[Ohio Race Day]

Hu-Tag recently sent out a news release about their new very thin mat antennas.  I've attached their photos and data sheet.  Just sharing new products on this thread.  No price was given.  Again, Brian doesn't recommend the need for mat antennas since there is enough success with side panel antennas.  To each ... his/her own.

[Peak Performance Timing]

Where can information on procuring these and the ramps be located?

[Ohio Race Day]

PPT,  You can probably get more info on their website.  Contact info is here ...  http://www.hutag.com/contactus.aspx

[Bruce B]

FYI

$265 shipped to US. Antenna only.

Bruce

[Peak Performance Timing]

I am thinking these might be the answer to picking up bib tags at the start of a large race......I like the fact that they are circularly polarized AND can fit in the cable ramps......

[bill.stokes]

I just ordered the Mat Antenna from HuTag.com.  I paid 261.62 including shipping.  I'll let the group know how it performs.  

Edward Yabsley at HuTag sent this email to me this morning which convinced me to give them a try: "I've spoken with an another couple of customers, one UK based the other in Sweden, who've got these antennas. Both are actually using them to great effect with bib chips in high end race situations. Both have reported perfect read range and high read rates with the antenna. One describes the ability of the tag, being horizontal, as perfected matched to the antenna when housed in a mat."  

[Peak Performance Timing]

Please, please let us know....I am excited to hear your review!

[John Kirby]

Yes, please let us know what you discover. I am curious about these mats and how they perform. The price seems reasonable, but do they have to be placed in a protected covering, such as the cord ramps? Does placing them in the protector decrease their range? The height of the protector, it seems, would be a tripping hazard...a bit higher than a regular mat antenna or the Home Depot rubber mats that many of us use to cover our cables for the side mount antennas. Also, do they have to be placed in the cord protectors, or can they work just as good and be protected enough under the Home Depot rubber mats? I guess that would be a manufacturer question.

Not trying to rehash the reliability discussion regarding mat vs side mount antennas, just curious about this new product.

[Ohio Race Day]

@ John Kirby,

The cable protector is made by Guard Dog.  I know that for sure.  I think the 3 channel low profile version is the one in my earlier photo.  Not totally sure which one Hu-Tag used for the picture.  See the link below.  They look sturdy but they don't take advantage of the very thin antenna.  This could be a thinner mat antenna with the right construction.  The cable protector adds to the cost.

https://www.checkersindustrial.com/products/cable-protectors/guard-dog/low-profile/low-profile-3-channel-standard/

I'm also not sure that the Home Depot style rubber mat would provide enough protection from trampling feet.  These antennas look fragile.

Also the antennas are only 2.5' long and the cable protectors are 3' long.  So you'd need three for a 9' finish line.  Whereas the other mats by RFDesign are 4' long each; so two of them gets you an 8' finish line.  Things to consider, I guess.  I'm interested in what Mr. Stokes finds out.

[Tim Irvine]

With these being a circular pattern, I am curious to see if they will pick up before the mat and how many feet on either side.

[jonjkinzer]

Have you tested the Hu Tag mat yet?  What are the results?

[Bruce B]

I have a hutag antenna that I would be willing to sell if anyone is interested. Never got the sma cable to try it. Decided after I purchased the antenna I didn't want to bother with purchasing the additional cable protectors to go with it.

[Bruce B]

Sorry Peak / all
Jumped the gun on selling the hutag antenna.
The boss wants to hold on to it a bit longer just in case we decide to use it.

[Peak Performance Timing]

Bill,

Any word on the performance of the Hutag mat antennas?

[Nick Preston]

Maybe this is a simplistic question, but which mats are you using from Home Depot?

[Brian Agee]

The price for these at my local Home Depot seemed to swing wildly. One time I picked them up for <$20 each and the next time I think they were >$50 each. So I started ordering them online. Here is how you can find the ones that I use:

Google search: "International FM-33B Black Anti-FatigueInterlocking Floor Mats"

Here is the direct link for the ones at Home Depot: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Generic-Unbranded-Black-36-in-x-36-in-Rubber-Anti-Fatigue-Comfort-Mat-KFTRM9191-1/206355967

For prices comparisons: The last time I ordered them I bought 5 for $14.64 each from Peachsuite.com and the shipping cost was $16.84.

[Peak Performance Timing]

@ Bill Stokes,

How have the HuTag thin threshold antennas worked out?