Arrow Live - continuous frustration

[Joe Laughlin]

In today's 5k of 300 runners/walkers, everything went smoothly in all aspects of the event ... other than ALR. Only 1 finisher was listed per age group. So I thought that if I tell the edit page of ART that I have 50 winners per age group that it might display correctly. IT DID! This has never happend before in any of the many, many races I have used ART/ALR for. This is obviously an issue when it comes to quick printed results for the awards ceremony.

ALR has in the past displayed correctly, showed doubles for each finisher and not worked at all. It is embarassing over and over. I want participants to logon to my website for accurate live results, not one of the registration companies. 

I believe that ALR is part of the yearly Endurance fee. If I cannot depend on it, I would like it to be an optional fee. 

[Chris Roney]

I used ALR for the first few races but have now moved results to Runsignup. That website is so much more professional and it allows pictures to be uploaded and linked to the finishers results which people love. 

[Christopher Regan]

I only use the ALR site for races that don't use RunSignup. And even then it's just for unofficial results. Anytime things get wonky i tend to clear everything and then F10 to push them up again.

I'd really love for ALR to be more useful to ART and actually have it be a place for live results including splits where the main finish line computer could download from ALR instead of needing to manually import splits after the race finishes but understand this is a huge amount of change in programming. ART is just so much more intuitive for me than RaceDay Scoring.

[Brian Agee]

ALR is the red headed stepchild for sure, it's something that was requested many years ago by some users and it was created by a former coworker since I'm not a web developer, and that coworker has since moved to Colorado. I wish I could spend a few months focused on, but that would mean a couple of months of basically neglecting the timing software. Every time I think I see an opening to spend a few weeks on it then something inevitably comes up that takes all of that time away. It's also expensive to offer.

I've made small improvements to it each year, but this year I do have a web developer (Derek) that I'm paying to work on it. Those using it would have noticed virtually no lag time over the past 3 weekends (which have been VERY busy weekends). The longest response this past weekend was 0.9 seconds. In the past, even on not-so-busy weekends the response times were very slow. So that's a major improvement. Derek has also found some methods that can be improved significantly in regards to efficiency. So we think that will improve response times even more. Over the past few years the main complaint with ARL has been its tendency to bog down on busy weekends, so that is what I wanted him to tackle first. I told him that after we've streamlined it so that freezing up is no longer a concern, the next phase will be ensuring that all critical settings in ART transfer over and stay in sync with ALR.

So a bit of good news, ALR bogging down should be fixed.

Besides using RSU, another alternative to consider is this neat app: https://groups.google.com/g/agee-race-timing/c/eArc4crOBs0/m/ssA6dLKACQAJ

Finally, a teaser, I'm working with another developer on what I think will be a super handy addition to ART and the Endurance membership. One of the major tasks every race timer has to deal with is making sure that you (or one of your timing crews) asks all of the relevant questions to the race director and then sets up the race correctly based on how the race director answered those questions. With this new feature, race directors can be sent a google form (which is linked to ART) with all of the relevant questions/responses pre-loaded (you can also add your own questions) and when they fill it out, you can create the race by clicking on Create Race > From Account > Google Form Submissions. When you open the race, the software will notify you if the 'form submission' has changed (and what changed) since you pulled the race in. This will not only look more professional, but it will help ensure that the timer gets all of the relevant information needed to set up the race. It also puts some responsibility on race race director to enter everything correctly instead of us having to translate sometimes cryptic description of their award breakdown or some other piece of information about the race they send by email.

[Fall Line Fitness]

Funny timing to this conversation! I was just about to write in that I have been using Arrow all summer long for just over 40+ races and it has worked extremely well for me. Last night I used it to provide live split results for a multiple wave - multi-sport event with two separate timing points, worked great! I had one hiccup this spring at a larger bike race with complicated interval starts but since then it has been pretty much flawless. 

F10 clears up most errors and the division drop down is so much cleaner then RSU results option in my opinion. Maybe I need to look into race day scoring or more advanced options for RSU but out of the box I really appreciate Arrows simplicity. 

Brian, as a frequent user of Arrow feel free to give Derek my contact and I would love to chat with him about small UI comments I've heard.

As always thanks Brian for all your efforts!

Justin.

[Brian Agee]

Thank you for the encouraging words.

Since the improvements made about a month ago, each weekend that has gone by, I look at the metrics and Arrow Live Results has received very few errors on the server and the response times even during the heaviest usage periods (tens of thousands of requests at the same time) are typically less than 1 second. So the biggest headache with Arrow (the response times during busy weekends) appears to be fixed. So now I'd like to know what is the next biggest issue that people think should be looked at next. I'm paying quite a bit for the development work on it, so I want to make sure to spend that money wisely and tackle the most urgent things first.

[Christopher Regan]

I think my easiest ask for how things work now would be to have a url specific to my company... http://www.arrowliveresults.com/MidHudstonTiming where only my races are listed. That way I can point my qr code / link directly to my page. Although I guess I could write my own so maybe it's not a big deal.

Something that would be way more work would be to have arrow switched to a DB style that syncs with ART and could pull in splits that were uploaded from split computers into the main finish line computer while the race is running.

[reece.bell]

I was going to say the same as Chris. A professional looking page for the timing company with the upcoming races listed would be awesome!

[Raphael Leal]

I was giving up on ALR but I'll give it one more shot after reading these improvements related by Brian.

I dont know if it can help, but instead of loading the whole list of athletes the front page would load only like the first 50 names then the athlete would search his BIB number/Name on the search field.

[Graham Hall]

Re ALR - I would like two additional features :

Option to show both gun and chip time

and a means of locking those options set via the ALR dashboard so that ART can't change them again (unless unlocked)

[Fall Line Fitness]

I really like the idea of a company results landing page if that's at all possible.

Couple of small improvements:

• Correct the rounding function to match what ART uses so printed results and live results match. Or if rounding is selected in ART it automatically makes that change in Arrow (sounds like this may already be on the list)
• Update "Presented By" to "Timing Provided By". I have had a few hosting organizations ask if I could change that to their company because they read it like I was hosting the event.
• Put a header over the overall/division dropdown "Divisions or Categories". Minor, but I think it would make that dropdown more obvious. The other option that may be helpful is to have the division label they are currently looking at as a larger header just above the results themselves. 
• A master settings option in our dashboard that sets all races pushed up with the same settings we frequently use. I tend to use the same settings for most if not all my races and currently have to individually change every results option for each event in Arrow.  
• In ART's "Action Keys" make "Add Division & Fill Bottom" the default. We set up all the divisions for a reason and want them and everyone in them to display unless told not to. Give the people what they want by default then limit in special occasion when necessary. This makes one less thing we have to remember to select unless for some reason we want to restrict the results.
• A hide DNF tab. 

I used Arrow again this weekend at a Cross night race and it worked great. https://www.facebook.com/share/PeKT3PGKfAjP4iGt/ see the comments for a few videos of the actions. 

Thanks,

Justin.

[Raphael Leal]

The ability to edit the header text.

[Peak Performance Timing]

I'd like to be able to control which teams are included in scoring on Arrow Live. Last time I tried to show the teams on arrow live, it showed the unattached runners as a team with a score.

[Craig MacIntyre]

Used Arrow today for the first time and was a bit disappointed.  F10 didn't work properly.  We got some weird results in the beginning and even when we corrected in ART pushing to Arrow kept them.

[Raphael Leal]

What kind of race?
Have you checked "Athlete type Results", "Add Division Results" and "Bottom fill" under the (F9 Publish Results) ?

The first time I used it I got weird results as well, then I checked all the options under de F9 and everything was fine.

[Craig MacIntyre]

Thanks guys.  Works great now.  Just the little things

[Fall Line Fitness]

I have had to use the "clear" option a few times in the past, then F10 which seems get things back in order. But only if it's a single split point!

This is a great example of why I was suggesting those tabs be set by default. We have enough on our plates already and remembering to check those boxes every time we enter the time race screen is just unnecessary. I used Arrow again yesterday for our final Cross race and even being an experienced user; I forgot to check them until someone mentioned only the top three in each category were showing. Other than that, it worked great, and I got lots of complements from racers because it used to take days to get results out in the past. 

Justin.

[Raphael Leal]

I was timing a race yesterday.

2000+ people.

ALR was taking too long to load.

More than 30 seconds...
Not good...

[Brian Agee]

Response times have been a LOT better over the past couple of months, but it does appear that this past weekend they got up to around 15 seconds. That's noticeable of course, but in the past that kind of demand would have seen a response times in the minutes. We'll keep looking to see what we can do to improve it even more.

[Hronometar]

Brian, please try to show Chip Start Time in Participant Details page when times are by Gun Time in ALR. I guess Justin has hidden it because of manual timing. If chip start times are not recorded, the field will stay empty the same when times are by Chip Times and a chip is not read at the start line.

Can rounding times up on ALR be matched with ART? That we have same rounding on both places.

Please try to find a part of the code in ART where all DNS, DNF and DQ participants are automatically pushed as DNS, DNF and DQ to ALR. I was requesting that at the beginning, Justin made it, then it wasn't working, he fixed it, and after a few updates in Spring 2018, it started not to work again. In that period I wrote to him, but he wasn't working on ALR anymore.

Why is it important? If you have a race with a checkpoint and finish line, and someone finishes first with an unreal time (lets say 10 min for 5 km), we need to DQ that person. If DNS, DNF and DQ are not automatically pushed to ALR, you need to do F10. But if you do F10, you will clear all checkpoint times. The same scenario is when we have 2 and more checkpoints + finish line. I have had many situations in the last past years where RDs ask why people who need to be DQ still stay on top of live results. Cannot tell them that if I DQ that person and push it to live results, it will clear all the checkpoints times.

Each race that is pushed to ALR and it is not based in USA, it will show AR abbreviation in race location on ALR. You can not see it in ART in Edit Race page when some other country is chosen than USA. But when USA is chosen after that, the State field will appear as AR.

Can Bottom Fill in ALR be managed by a 'checkbox' in Edit Event page on ALR? If we unmark Bottom Fill in Clock page and click F10, it will not show all participants in age divisions on ALR. I'd like it to work like earlier that it pushes all participants doesn't mater we have the Bottom Fill on or off. Timers that do not want to show more than 3 participants (or whatever is set) in ALR, they could change settings on ALR what to show. Same as Show DNS / Hide DNS in the Edit Event page.

Upgrade of the trigger on the Event table that runs the script to automatically archive ALR events older than 30 days, each time a new ALR event is pushed.
Could the script also delete all old (archived and unarchived) events that are older than 12 or 15 months? That way the number of events on the ALR would be reduced. If we time a race each year in the same month, next year when we push a new edition of that race, the old/last edition that is already archived would be deleted if a period of 12 or 15 months is passed. I have noted that the scrip for now only archives events that are started and are older than 30 days. If an ALR event that is older than 30 days is not started in ART, it will not be archived on ALR.

Please, can you take it back that we can chose which race to push to the ALR? If F10 link pushes all races together that are in Clock page, it is not good. Races with 2 split points should not be pushed to the ALR during the timing process at finish line. Maybe you should take a MessageBox 'Are you sure you want to publish [Race Name] to Arrow?' back. I guess many timers have a situation of 2 and more races in Clock page where some races have only finish line and some races 2 or more split points. That is scenario where F10 mustn't push all the races together to the ALR.

[Hronometar]

Brian, I have passed through an old conversation I had with Justin Morse, and here are the rest of the features and bugs we discussed years ago that have never been realized.

When import registrations with full date of birth, and in 'Edit Race' unmark option 'Use Age on Race Date' with a set date of 2025/12/31, it will show correct ages in ART, but ALR will continue showing ages based on 'Race Date'.

Placing split times in correct column when missed splits appear.
If any split is missed on turning point or other split point, we do not have finish time for that participant in ALR (last split on finish line is not placed in finish line column). I have suggested to Justin that ALR could take times in correct column by name of Split Descriptions. Here are two samples.

• Imagine 3 timing points, 'start/finish line', 'check point 1' and 'check point 2'. If CP1 is missed and CP2 has time, it should place CP2 time in CP2 column. Condition for that should be Split Descriptions name in Edit Race page in ART. Well, it means that PC for CP1 needs to have Split Descriptions name matched with the name of column on ALR. The same for all other splits and timing points.
• If CP1 and CP2 have 2 splits each and the first split on CP1 is missed, then the second split on CP1 should be placed after the first split of CP2 as time of CP2 1st is smaller than time of CP1 2nd. In that case, missed split of CP1 1st stays empty because of a logic that bigger time cannot be placed in front of a smaller time.

Can it be made like that with those logics? I guess many of us would like to have live results with placing times in correct column if we have missed reads.

Embedded code for live results.
Can you provide us that code with option not to be shown any of ALR info? The same way how Race Result company provides for their clients. Here is how it looks:

• live results on Race Result portal,
• live results with embedded code on timers page, and
• live results with the same embedded code on race director page.

I guess the timer copied the same code on their website and on the race organizer website as everything looks the same.

Electronic diploma/certificate. In this post is an old request.

Individual links to YouTube video when participants are finishing. Just to copy a YouTube link and set up an offset time for first participant, and the software can calculate the rest for creating individual links. If I am not wrong, this functionality exist on RSU platform. I create it on my own in Google Sheet and then export a PDF. Here is a sample.

When we have gun timed race ONLY, and in 'Edit Event' page 'Gun Time' is selected, ALR should not show both versions of splits in 'Participant Details' page. Showing 'Chip Times' in the page doesn't make a sense in that scenario. If the race would be chip timed, then it's fine to show 'Chip Times' as well.

Naming in 'Participant Details' page.
'Finish Time' in 'Stats' - we have the same naming for 'Finish Time' in big blue margin. Maybe 'Chip Finish Time' could be better naming.

Can both types of view in 'Participant Details' page show up to 10 splits in a row? When we have 6/12/24 hours lap races when they run sometimes more that 100 laps, it would be easier to follow times if they are on every 10s in a row. Here is a sample with an event with lets say 37 splits. They are stored in 9+1 row. It could look better with 3+1 rows if a row contains 10 splits. Table view looks better and it would be fine that it is always shown in tables. Justin made it to show in a table up to 11 splits, and if we have a race with 12+ splits, it will show list view with 4 splits in a row. My suggestion would be: In the first row the first table with 10 splits (1-10), in the second row, the second table with 10 splits (11-20), etc.

[Hronometar]

Brian, can you reduce refresh interval of results in event page from 30 seconds to 10 seconds? If I remember well, Justin made it to 30 seconds for event page and 60 seconds for participant page.

[Raphael Leal]

Can you guys a click on the link below to test the response time of Arrow?

https://www.arrowliveresults.com/CORRIDADOCRUZEIRO2025

I timed a race today, over 3000 people. Nobody could see their results due the unresponsive site...

[Steve Hudson]

Raphael, appeared on my iPad in seconds. I am at home with good internet access. However, well done for the size of field.

[Raphael Leal]

Steve, 24h after the event it should work well.
But WE need it working "live", at real time.
Anyway...

[Steve Hudson]

We’ve had ‘live’ working fine at events, but admittedly not with 3000+ athletes. Our maximum has been around 650+.

[Hronometar]

Is there any way to show all qualified participants in Division Results in ALR? It only shows top 3 or whatever is set in Edit Race in ART.

Brian, can this functionality be an optional to show only top 3 participants? Can we have some checkbox that can push all participants in Division Results to the ALR? That feature can be in ALR's Edit Event page in Dashboard or in Settings page in ART. Similar functionality as Bottom Fill when printing results from Clock Page.

This is really frustrating when I need to move DB file after the race to some other PC with older software version to push all the races to ALR again to show all participants in Division Results.

[Lucijan Tominšek]

I completely agree with this suggestion, too often there are complications in displaying results, the way it is arranged now....

sreda, 22. oktober 2025 ob 09:31:39 UTC+2 je oseba Hronometar napisala:

[Raphael Leal]

You can set it up following the steps bellow:

Time Race! > Action Keys

Check "Athlete Type Results"
Check "Add Division Results"
Check "Bottom Fill"

Then you'll see all qualified in Division Results.