RFID tags for cycling events.
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Daniele Nocentini
Oct 18, 2016, 5:42:00 AM10/18/16
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Hello!
I'm Daniele from Italy. I have started to build a homemade timing solution for cycling race and I need to know which is the best tags to use with UHF Reader? thanks.
I'm Daniele from Italy. I have started to build a homemade timing solution for cycling race and I need to know which is the best tags to use with UHF Reader? thanks.
Brian Agee
Oct 18, 2016, 10:42:10 AM10/18/16
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Others can chime in, but a few years ago when I tested a bunch of different tags I found that the UPM DogBone was noticeably better than any of the other passive tags I tested. So if you're looking for an adhesive tag to stick on the helmet, bib, or plastic number plate then this may be the best option. It's a fairly large tag. If you find that it's too big, then there are other tags in just about every size/width that you can image. They will still perform extremely well as long as you keep the following in mind:
- Tags should not be attached to metal, skin, carbon fiber, or anything that absorbs water
- Tags should come through the read zone directly facing the antennas (or at least as much as possible).
- It's best to have the tags on a surface where you can count on the tags being clearly seen by the antennas - for example if tags are worn on wristbands then there is a very large read zone to account for as young children pass with tags very low to the ground and adults may cross with their hands raised high in the air. Also with wristbands the tag may be turned many different directions so it will be harder to pick up. You didn't mention using wristbands of course, I'm just giving an example of all of the things that must be considered. The following link will help you understand how to ensure the best read rates: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/agee-race-timing/mbZcntZ3GwI/rr9svNUouu8J
- With this software you're free to program as many tags as you need for each athlete. So if you decide to go crazy and place a tag on the helmet, bike, bib, and plate then you're free to do so. This allows you the convenience of using smaller tags without sacrificing the extra performance you would get out of a DogBone. This many tags should not be necessary unless you're timing some kind of crazy adventure race, but the point is, you can always take precautions like this if you wanted to be double, triple, or quadruple your chances of getting 100% read rates.
If you're looking for wearable tags - it's hard to beat the HuTag.
The tags mentioned above (and what nearly everyone uses) are called "passive" tags - meaning they do not use a battery and will virtually last forever if you take care of them. Many companies also make "active" tags that are supposed to be a lot better for extreme conditions timing, but I can't speak on these as I've never tested them out - haven't had a need to really because passive tags have always worked well.
Finally, if you search "bike tag" or "cycling tag" in the forum you'll find some really awesome helmet and bike tags that others have designed. Not only do I think their designs look cool, but I love that they made them to where the tags can be reused over and over again. Obviously this means some work to go through the tags after the race and get them ready for the next race, but this keeps the cost down for everyone. :)
mstompro
Oct 18, 2016, 1:30:17 PM10/18/16
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I can attest that the Dogbone is an awesome tag and works very well on a bike. I've used wet inlay dogbones on the back of the front number plate and also in a frame mounted number plate. Used both overhead and side mounted antennas. I plan on testing these configurations again once I have a weekend available.
Daniele Nocentini
Oct 19, 2016, 3:48:45 AM10/19/16
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Hi to all, thank for reply.
I need to manage mountain bike races with max 200/250 bikers and I want to put tags on number panel in rear side that is attached to the handlebar. Last sunday I have tested my reader with 50 tags (alien tags), and I have attached the tags on top of front number panel so the tags are close to the carbon or aluminium handlebar/stem, this is incorrect position? Look attached picture.
I need to manage mountain bike races with max 200/250 bikers and I want to put tags on number panel in rear side that is attached to the handlebar. Last sunday I have tested my reader with 50 tags (alien tags), and I have attached the tags on top of front number panel so the tags are close to the carbon or aluminium handlebar/stem, this is incorrect position? Look attached picture.
Ohio Race Day
Oct 19, 2016, 8:08:42 AM10/19/16
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That should be fine. But why just one RFID tag? You have room for
another. Or place one (encoded with same number) on the helmet. See
the link to an earlier thread. Also use Smartrac Dogbone tags for a
better chance for a read.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer#!searchin/agee-race-timing/bike$20timing$20tag/agee-race-timing/jzEhSjEVMcQ/LIMxkfL0SXUJ
I searched the group and could not locate it but there is another timer here that created a laminated card with RFID that gets attached to the seat stay or seat post. Very creative!
https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer#!searchin/agee-race-timing/bike$20timing$20tag/agee-race-timing/jzEhSjEVMcQ/LIMxkfL0SXUJ
I searched the group and could not locate it but there is another timer here that created a laminated card with RFID that gets attached to the seat stay or seat post. Very creative!
Daniele Nocentini
Oct 19, 2016, 9:25:14 AM10/19/16
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I want to attach tag to the front panel number becasuse the panel number they are the property of organization and are attached to the bike before the race at the registration time and then when the race finished the bikers resign the panel number to the organization.
I can put two tag on front panel number or in another it's better?
I can put two tag on front panel number or in another it's better?
Jon Beverley
Oct 19, 2016, 10:58:48 AM10/19/16
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The best location for the tag mainly depends on the position and angle of your antennas. I would say if you are using the front panel then the best position for the antenna would be mounted overhead pointing down.
If you use a seat post mounted number plate then the best position would be for the antennas to be either side pointing towards each other.
Ohio Race Day
Oct 19, 2016, 11:04:33 AM10/19/16
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... and yes, you can put more than one tag on a participant. The tags would be encoded the same. If the race is one lap then the system will record one time.
Daniele Nocentini
Oct 19, 2016, 11:21:45 AM10/19/16
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ok I have understand.
At the moment I have a chip Chinese Chafon CF-5112 Reader but I don't know is sufficient for mtb race. Maybe a Impinj system it's more accurate solution? but it's more expencive.
At the moment I have a chip Chinese Chafon CF-5112 Reader but I don't know is sufficient for mtb race. Maybe a Impinj system it's more accurate solution? but it's more expencive.
Ohio Race Day
Oct 19, 2016, 1:57:44 PM10/19/16
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Daniele,
The integrated Chafon CF-5112 is not a compatible reader for Agee Race Timing's system. I think the list of compatible readers is located in the Help menu.
The integrated Chafon CF-5112 is not a compatible reader for Agee Race Timing's system. I think the list of compatible readers is located in the Help menu.
Daniele Nocentini
Oct 20, 2016, 3:05:48 AM10/20/16
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you can post the link of help menu? thanks.
Daniele Nocentini
Oct 20, 2016, 3:10:01 AM10/20/16
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anyway I need to write my custom software for a very specific rules of cycling amateur here in Italy.
Daniele Nocentini
Oct 20, 2016, 10:25:54 AM10/20/16
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For us the problem is that at the races we don't have a possibility to make a rigid structure over the road because some of our races have finish line on the open road and the Italian law it's not permit this. Only a influtable arch we can put on the road, so I don't have possibility to use a overhead antenna.
So If a buy a system with two antenna one on each side of the road do you think it's sufficient for mtb with the tag mount in seatpost position? I have also another question, what does it mean "fixed reader"?
So If a buy a system with two antenna one on each side of the road do you think it's sufficient for mtb with the tag mount in seatpost position? I have also another question, what does it mean "fixed reader"?
Ohio Race Day
Oct 20, 2016, 11:57:57 AM10/20/16
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Daniele,
After several contributors answered your questions, you stated ...
After several contributors answered your questions, you stated ...
"anyway I need to write my custom software for a very specific rules of cycling amateur here in Italy."
If you are designing your own software and not using an RFID reader that is compatible with Agee Race Timing then I'm not sure we can help you with your set up. I don't want to speak for the group as a whole but I do wonder how we can assist you. The ART system is already in place with compatible readers. Why try to re-invent the wheel? Among other types of events, it is being used successfully for MTB races.
Daniele Nocentini
Oct 20, 2016, 12:22:45 PM10/20/16
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A common mtb race that I need to manager are composed with two or three track, tipical one long track about 30 km and one short track about 20 km, but the start it's the same and some categories of biker must do long distance and some must do short distance. The Agee software can manage this situation?
tiberiu.gindu
Oct 20, 2016, 12:28:40 PM10/20/16
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Yes, it can handle it.
Easily!
Easily!
Ohio Race Day
Oct 20, 2016, 4:00:53 PM10/20/16
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The ART system can handle multiple races of different distances that start at the same time or at different times. It would have no problem sorting results by athlete type or age division within each race. You may want to consider downloading the trial version and manually timing a mountain bike race along side another primary timing system. This group is a wonderful resource for answers. But search your question first to see if it has already been addressed. There are many photos of similar setups and others who are using the system the way that you intend.
Ohio Race Day
Oct 20, 2016, 4:12:10 PM10/20/16
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Brian Agee
Oct 20, 2016, 4:13:56 PM10/20/16
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I don't know if I have a specific video that shows it being done (I would hope so because we time a ton of multi-events), but there here is a link where someone else asked how to time multple races: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/agee-race-timing/bzyuVtUSF_U/cOgrBUTdCAAJ
Daniele Nocentini
Oct 21, 2016, 5:19:13 AM10/21/16
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I have another question about agee software, tipical many bikers race different challenges (a group of races) and have personal chip buyed from another timing company and put this tags on bike for ever. This is a stupid approch but it is so.
The agee software can keep all tags that pass throw the antennas? So can keep also another company tags plus my tags, it's right?
The very basic software that I have write can control if the tags are my tags because I wrote some byte inside the memory epc of the tag with a special alpha numeric characters and for me it's only valid tags with this check code.
The agee software can keep all tags that pass throw the antennas? So can keep also another company tags plus my tags, it's right?
The very basic software that I have write can control if the tags are my tags because I wrote some byte inside the memory epc of the tag with a special alpha numeric characters and for me it's only valid tags with this check code.
Ohio Race Day
Oct 21, 2016, 11:57:13 AM10/21/16
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Daniele,
The RFID tags you use should be UHF Gen2. There are many types of compatible RFID tags but I'd recommend a SmartTrac DogBone style for your bike number plate. This tag can be programmed using ART software and used for any race with the system. You can also program it with an EPC that is specific to only one race. We do that for high school cross country meets where a bunch of athletes are standing around the finish line waiting for friends to arrive. If another timing company is using a similar tag then it is possible that it can be read by the reader but very unlikely that the EPC will match the race you have open. As I understand, some other proprietary timing systems use a different type of tag and reader. There is no need to have riders purchase a tag/chip. They are so cheap today that it doesn't make sense to do that.
We recently timed an Adventure Race (run, canoe, bike) with the RFID tag stuck on the back of the bib number. The system worked well. See the link below to a photo of a couple of non-competitive participants.
Adventure Race Finish
The RFID tags you use should be UHF Gen2. There are many types of compatible RFID tags but I'd recommend a SmartTrac DogBone style for your bike number plate. This tag can be programmed using ART software and used for any race with the system. You can also program it with an EPC that is specific to only one race. We do that for high school cross country meets where a bunch of athletes are standing around the finish line waiting for friends to arrive. If another timing company is using a similar tag then it is possible that it can be read by the reader but very unlikely that the EPC will match the race you have open. As I understand, some other proprietary timing systems use a different type of tag and reader. There is no need to have riders purchase a tag/chip. They are so cheap today that it doesn't make sense to do that.
We recently timed an Adventure Race (run, canoe, bike) with the RFID tag stuck on the back of the bib number. The system worked well. See the link below to a photo of a couple of non-competitive participants.
Adventure Race Finish
Brian Agee
Oct 21, 2016, 5:45:27 PM10/21/16
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Yeah, it would be very easy to add something to the EPC to tell my software that the tags is an ART tag (and therefore ignore all other brands), I decided not to do this because some people have and want to use password protected tags from other systems that are compatible with ART.
'Password protected' tags read just fine, but the can only be re-programmed if you know the password. As you might guess, people wait until the last minute to rent or buy what they need, so this would cause panic to set in quick if one of my timers rented something like HuTags from another timer and then found out that they do not work with ART.
Additionally, if the cyclist left an ART tag on their bike you'd have the same problem the next time they showed up at a race.
As far as I can remember I have not had any reports of problems caused by participants passing through the finish line with their own tags on. If it's an IPICO or Trident (or some other non-UHF tag) then the readers and antennas cannot see it anyway, and some other UHF systems do not assign a bib # to the EPC - so those tags are ignored by ART automatically too.
Making the tags ART specific is not a bad idea, just explaining why I decided against it. If a lot of customers were saying it was a problem, making the tags ART specific would take less than 2 minutes to complete.
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