Switching to RaceResult mats, any comments to help with the switch?

[Kurt]

I'm ready to purchase RaceResult mats; it makes sense for my type of operation, and the convenience and reliability seem worth it.  I'd appreciate any comments from RR users on your experiences to help with the transition.

Also, it seems like there have been a bunch of recent mat converts who were successfully using trusses or just side antennas.  Tell me why you switched. 

Thanks, kurt

[MarkE]

I switched for convenience.  I had been running overhead antennas with bib tags and had great results with this but I was spending a lot of time setting up the truss and was always concerned about wind, someone running into it, etc.  With the mats, I can be set up in just a few minutes and don't have to worry about the truss coming down.

The only thing I don't like about the mat when used with bibs is how "fuzzy" the finish line becomes.  Since the read zone projects upwards in a funnel shape it is a few feet wide at chest height.  There are times I will get reads several feet before a runner actually crosses the mat.  I don't fret this for road runs but do pay very close attention for Cross Country events where finish order is important.  Because of this, I always run a camera at XC events just to be sure.

Other than this, I absolutely love the mats.

Mark

[Kurt]

The wind issue and setup time were big factors for my decision to switch.  It seems like they are bulletproof too.  

I do a lot of XC, so the finish line issue is good info; I always use a camera at the finish. I've found that even overhead linear antennas have similar problems, do you have overhead antennas that make a super sharp finish line?

I'm also looking at the RR extension mats for wide chip starts, do you use the extension mats? I'm thinking that side antennas would be good enough for the edges of wide starts.

[Tim Irvine]

Kurt,

    I still use overhead truss and antennas, but will also be purchasing an RR mat this year. Setup time and tear down is my reason why. Wind on the truss for me at least hasn't been a huge problem. I simply leave my banners off and I also have 80 pounds of kettle bells on them anyway. As for the accuracy, with bib tags, it is what it is. Very hard to sharpen the edge at that height. I did a test earlier this year with a side by side comparison of 2 over head antennas pointing down at the line and 2 on tripods on the side just back from the line. In that race, every chip read was at the line dead on except for the overall winner who despite being told to wear it on her shoe, she wore it on her hip. The great challenge always comes down to one simple thing for us timers. Will they wear the chip right? That is why I think most of us prefer bib chips. Because a quick visual scan can root out a problem if we don't see a bib.

  I have several setups I do depending on the type race I am doing. For instance, even when I get mats, I won't be using them for a trail race. As for Cross Country, I prefer to time Cross Country manually due to the importance of making sure the order is correct. However, the races I time are not monster size of I might feel different. Thanks, Tim

[MarkE]

Wither overhead mounts it's certainly not "sharp" but you can adjust the angle of the antennas to help reduce the scatter on the front side.  With the mats, it seems like it's just a bit worse.  As far as getting a wide start, I've never needed anything wider than the 15' mat to date.  I did quote a very large race earlier this year and planned on doing two mats side by side and then bringing them together with a router.  Haven't done that yet though.

For XC meets, I typically do manual timing and chip timing with the mats in parallel.  I do a few meets a year though that are way too busy at the finish line to think about manually timing.  Two are 1000+ runner XC meets and one is a 400 runner 1.5 mile middle school meet.  The MS meet in particular is nuts.  In each case, you make sure everything is running (especially your cameras) and cross your fingers.

[Muddy Dog Sports]

I'm in my second season using Race Results mats and agree with the comments above that they are great with the one down side that the finish line is fuzzy. I have an upcoming XC meet that is the first time I'm using chips for XC (usually I hand time these). Would appreciate any advice on camera setup for confirming finish order. Would like to be able to post final results more or less immediately after each race. Thanks!

[5Kevents.org]

We post Cross county events manually to make sure we have exact results., Road races are never exact because it's a finish zone rather than a line.  ALSO with ART you can post LIVE results which is a blessing, keeps people from interrupting the timer.. We put a QR code on the trailer so people don't bug us while timing

[MarkE]

I use a security camera system and run it with 2 cameras.  The first is looking directly across the finish line to get a good view of finish order.  The second is set back about 10 feet and looking towards the oncoming runners.  This gives a view of bibs and who is left or right side of the chute.  This has generally served me well.  My thought though is if the race is small enough to comfortably time it manually you probably don't need cameras.  Most of my close finishes I will just watch to see who finishes first and then verify in the results.  I only go to the camera for very close finishes or if team scores get very close.  If we need to swap finish order, I do it on the spot and refresh results.  Doing this, I'm typically able to print almost immediately after the last runner crosses.

[Peak Performance Timing]

Although I have a finishlynx system, I rarely use it for cross country
races. I use 2 go pros and a head on Eagle Eye webcam, which can review close finishes on the fly while it continues to record finishers. I also have a team member calling out the finishing order over a wireless set of headsets to verify the order ART gets. WORKS GREAT!

[Muddy Dog Sports]

Thanks to those who shared their experience on confirming cross country finish order. 

Since this thread was originally about Race Results mats, it's worth noting that I can get a super tight finish line with excellent finish order accuracy using shoe tags. With the tag down low they "fly under the radar" and get picked up right on the line. There are reasons we are using bib tags for this particular race coming up but that is another story...

Another thing worth noting is I get really good finish order accuracy when timing bike races where the chip is attached to a number plate on the front of the bike. With running races bib placement is all over the place and I think that has a big effect on when the first read happens. At least for cross country we can expect uniform bib placement on the front of the uniform so hopefully that will improve the chip timed finish order. We are going to have a couple of volunteers getting finish order manually and also have a camera on it so expecting all to be well at the cross country race. 

Also, here's a little trick you won't see on the Race Result website. If you need side antennas, stand the mat on edge. Did this for counting laps at an indoor track meet with athletes wearing ankle strap chips - MASSIVE coverage!! The setup pictured gave a little better than half a second accuracy compared to the official meet times done with a FinishLynx, plus we had splits for everybody on every lap. The main purpose of the setup was to confirm lap counts for an indoor 5k and 1600 with really fast collegiate runners and it was perfect for that.

 

[Brian Agee]

That look really cool! Thanks for sharing.....

[JK Race Timing Systems]

Hi

Thats a brilliant idea.

I would imagine that to get it to stand you have to make it like an accordian so that each antenna is actually angled criss cross which would help create a great capture field.

Bloody clever

[Tim Irvine]

Muddy Dog, that is very clever. 

[Muddy Dog Sports]

Don't think it would be very stable by itself in accordion fashion. I have it sitting on eight very simple to make stands - the 2x4's are each 12" long and held together with a hinge. The 2x2 keeps the bottom of the mat from slipping out (sorry the photo is upside down, flip your screen around and you'll get the idea!) 

Since everyone didn't think that was so goofy, here's another thing you can do once you have made your stands - create an integrated mat/side antenna finish! Back yard testing showed me that my less-sensitive-than-hutags-ankle-chips were only good for about 90% reads when running fast over the mat laying flat. So tip up the end panels and your missed read worries are over. The setup in the picture is ridiculous over-kill for that race, but hey, use it if you got it! Switch to hutags and you need not bother flipping up the ends, but once again that is a story for another thread...  

[5Kevents.org]

This is great stuff!

Are you using shoe tags or bib tags or both... any preference?

[Muddy Dog Sports]

Woops, didn't see there was a question in there earlier about chips - didn't mean to ignore it! Each time I've used the "weird" mat setup on it's side or with the ends flipped up it's been when I've been using triathlon ankle strap types of chips. So far 100% reads in real races using my generic ankle chips. In backyard testing I was only getting 90% reads with my generic ankle chips with the mat lying flat. Hu-tags give me 100% reads in backyard testing with the mat flat but I just don't do enough events that need them for it to make sense to go buy a lot of Hu-tags. 

In normal laying flat mode the mats work great with chips on bibs and Brian's reusable shoe tags.