Non-Binary

[Gregg Mrkvicka]

I searched but never saw anything definitive. Can we possibly get Non-Binary added as an option under genders?

[blueridgetiming]

I actually don't like the idea to mess with the genders. I can imagine that a ton goes into that code and if registration platforms such as RSU aren't implementing it, I don't see why we should go that route with ART.

I've had similar events and used the athlete type option to accommodate these requests.

[Ted Finch]

Yes there are work arounds but they are just that = work arounds.  Some core parts such as Kiosk will list Sex as Male or Female only even if an Athlete Type is used to separate out a group of results. One option is to have Sex as now and an optional Gender Field

If there is an NB option in ART then those that need it can use it. If you don't need it then that is fine too.

Interfaces such as RSU can be defaulted to M & F in Sex  if that is a constraint of those systems.

Having a NB option would make ART inclusive and also means ART users can say Yes if asked about accommodating such requests in the future.

In Scotland there is an expectation that NB runners are accommodated in Scottish Athletics events.

Cheers

Ted

[Brian Agee]

I still plan to look into it to see how much work is involved and providing a good solution for those that really need it.

Blueridge is right though, this will probably require modifying just about every area of the software - division setup, nearly every report, every interfaces with other vendors, importing/exporting files, etc.  This amount of work is not something I really want to do of course, however with laws being passed requiring non-Binary as an option it looks like it's here to stay.

If I can add an option tucked away in the "Advanced" tab of the Settings screen area to allow for non-Binary genders then that seems reasonable to me. It would of course default to "False" so that everything looks and works exactly the same for those that do not enable the non-Binary option. This way it's up to the end user if they want to offer it or not.

As you can probably guess, I try my best to focus my attention on one thing at a time to make sure it's done perfectly before I move onto the next thing. I've done a lot of work that I'm looking forward to pushing out as soon as possible. I typically don't go this long between updates, but for the past few weeks I've been hung up on a couple of new interfaces that I've been trying to complete and announce with this next update. This weekend I should finish with one of them - which is the ability to push XC team results to RSU (see example). I'm not sure how many people will use it, but I know some people have requested it so I pushed it above other requests so that I can make sure it's available well before XC season starts up.

So the point is, it's still on the "to do" list.

[Ted Finch]

Brian

Thanks for the positive response. If there is any way I can assist / Beta test please  let me know.

Ted

[Matt with RunSignup]

For race that use RunSignup for registration, we let the race decide how they want to handle the additional gender options by adding a custom question. Then instead of scoring off the database field for gender, you would score off the question response.

Here is a blog with more details (note the hide/require options are on the Dates, Pricing, & Options page, not the Race Wizard):

https://runsignup.blog/2020/07/07/gender-options/

One thing you will definitely want to address with your race directors is the awards as this will be an additional cost for awards for 3+ categories with all age ranges, etc.

[Steve Hudson]

This is truly a very sensitive subject and quite rightly so. It has for several years been open for discussion as to how RDs should permit applicants who wish to not be declared as Male or Female in open competition. I applaud Scottish Athletics and Ted for pushing towards a solution. The dilemma is how to request and at the same time, I submit, permit anonymity where possible and this, I dare say, is what the online entry systems are still considering. My input into this discussion is because I too have scoring software that ought to be taking note of this.

For this discussion, may I describe applicants who wish not to be declared Male and Female as the most popular term being today, namely Non-binary. In the following discussion I wish to be constructive and do not wish to offend anyone and hope that a healthy solution can be adopted, thereby avoiding too many variations.

Declaring oneself as Male or Female and to be known as such for disclosed listings (to the general public) of roster and race results and thereby declaring an interest in prize distribution is what we are all familiar. However, it may well be that one's declaration of non-binary may want to be only between the applicant and the Race Director (RD) : in which case, one's identity must not be declared to the general public on roster or race results. As such, these individuals would not be taking part in the openly declared prize allocation - it is the RD's choice whether to allocate prizes privately. This overcomes those applicants who wish to, cynically, take advantage of a race category ; after all, applications are taken on trust and the RD is unable to prove one's identity.

Those non-binaries who wish to declare themselves - to the RD and general public - may wish, as an American commentator has suggested,  to lean towards Male or Female, for the purposes of gender positioning and prize allocation.

This does seem to come across as rather impersonal, but that is the nature of scoring and providing results for the RD, applicants have to be given some kind of 'identity'. 

As we see, RunSignUp has declared a proposed suggestion of gender choice Male / Female / Non-binary. I propose an additional option as 'Prefer not to say' or 'Private'. This latter choice will align itself with my text above, such that the RD, Registration, First Aiders and the scoring software will be aware of these applicants : they will not be shown on any listing openly shown to the general public. Declaring oneself as Non-binary will be indicated on the start roster and race results. As the American commentator has suggested the Non-binary choice could further request, whether the applicant wishes to lean towards Male or Female for the purposes of gender positioning and prize allocation. So printouts could indicate M, F, M+ or m, F- or f, for example, under the Gender/Sex column. Additionally, printouts to the general public could declare 'n applicants wished to remain anonymous', for example, for those who applied as 'prefer not to say'.

Thus, within the scoring environment an applicant will be understood as 'Male', 'Female', 'Private',  'Non-binary' but with an interest in the Male prizes, 'Non-binary' but with an interest in Female prizes. These 5 indicators could be the choices on paper entry forms. Obviously, all counts within scoring software must show the various identity groups, whether an applicant wishes to be private or not : we still need to know how may competitors are still 'on course'.

As Brian has indicated, this is a massive undertaking and will take plenty of sole searching and time to achieve. But if a common approach can be agreed, we may not need to revisit this delicate subject. Thanks.

[Ted Finch]

Steve

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I think you may be over complicating things by trying to be at the same time sensitive to a developing issue in gender identification.

Can I direct you all to the guidance issued by Scottish Athletics: https://www.scottishathletics.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Scottish-Athletics-Non-Binary-Guidance-Race-Organisers-September-2018.pdf

" Organising an event with a non-binary category
 It is up to the Race Organiser to determine what name that additional category will be given, but we are happy to assist you further with this, if necessary, and support any decision you make. But ‘nonbinary’ is the umbrella term which covers all outside the ‘male’ and ‘female’ categories. Anyone competing under this additional category will not be able to have their performance counted towards rankings, so suggest maybe the following in the fine print: “Only Male and Female categories will be captured in results for ranking purposes”. You can award prizes in this additional category if you wish, but those competing in this category can only receive a prize in this category. Timing companies can contact us directly if there are any issues. Consider a statement on your events page so people know in advance that your races are non-binary friendly. Organisers for the Jedburgh Running Festival have the following on their page: “We are LGBT friendly. We are non-binary friendly. You can enter our race as female, male or nonbinary. All event portaloos and showers are gender neutral”."

There is also information on 'non binary' concepts at  www.scottishtrans.org/non-binary

At the point of entry then an applicant will need to declare the class or category they will run and implicitly declare their gender.

If in publishing results you  have various categories. Men Open, Women Under 15 etc. then these identify the gender of the runner - there is no need to include a Sex or Gender Field in the printout

For a Non Binary category then again there is no need to include a Gender field as the Category infers that the runners are Non Binary.

You may wish to allow runners to become private and then exclude them from any published results. For Male or Female categories ( in the UK ) this would mean that the result would not be used for ranking purposes. I am not sure that this is necessary however one could get advice from organisations such as

• Scottish Trans Alliance, https://www.equality-network.org/ 
• Equality Network and  https://www.scottishtrans.org/non-binary/
• Leap Sports Scotland.  https://leapsports.org 

KitST has timed and produced results for events such as the Jedburgh Running Festival  and Edinburgh Pride and in each case have had discussions with the organisers about the presentation of results in the various race categories.

The flexibility in ART has allowed us to meet organisers needs but as described above and in other posts there are also some constraints that need 'work arounds'.

Thanks

Ted Finch

[Steve Hudson]

Much appreciated, Ted. 

However, I suspect it is more complicated than to permit the applicant to chose their division. From the point of view of ‘gender’, this may work, but having divisions with age implications requires the applicant to know how to interpret their age. Ruling athletic bodies have different calculation dates for their disciplines and applicants can belong to different divisions depending on their discipline. Brian very kindly provided the chance to provide a calculation date, but a single event can contain divisions that require more than one calculation date.

Not so straight forward ! 

[Ted Finch]

Steve

You are correct events have rules on eligibility and nothing in the Non-Binary conversation relates to changing those rules. The object is to extend the rules and categories so as to be more inclusive. The benefits of running are well documented  and so anything that can be done to ease access to events is to be applauded.

In the context of ART there is an opportunity, but not a trivial task, to reflect the developments and opportunities in the wider sporting world.

Cheers
Ted

[Tim Irvine]

Putting any declared NB athletes into their own race would be super easy to do, and assuming there is only one or two, for the sake of posting results, you could remove gender completely. But here is a little food for thought:

We are the timers and basically work for the race organizer and RD. What do you do if the race only offers awards for male and female? I am guessing you give them their result and they aren't included in the awards? We have this one guy who came to some of our races a few years ago. He never wanted to give his age. I am still not sure why, but that was what he wanted. He also did not want to be included in the awards, and he was a top 5 guy. So what we did was create a separate division for him. That way I could remove the age reference altogether. We do not have NB athletes here in Mississippi yet, but eventually, we will face this too. I am glad I get to watch you guys figure it out so I will know how to handle it then.