Arrow Live Results Testing Account

[Justin Morse]

Hi All,

Arrow Live Results has been released and is included in ART 5.1. I have created a test account for people to use to test out the service. I will keep this account live for a week for anyone to use to check out the system. After that, everyone can get a two week trial by subscribing on www.arrowliveresults.com after creating an account. Instructions for getting started are included in the ART 5.1 release notes. If, before two weeks you decide you do not want to use Arrow Live Results please email be and I will cancel your account.

Test User Credentials

Username: TestCu...@Test.com

Password: Password1!

Let me know if I can help by emailing me at jmo...@arrowdm.com.

Thanks,

Justin

[blueridgetiming]

Are you able to confirm the role of the sync button? In other words, if you are using RSU as your registration platform and hope to push live results to Arrow, before the event starts and you hit sync, will this pull in new registrants from RSU, as well as sync the necessary data to Arrow at the same time?

[Justin Morse]

Hey Doug, 

That Arrow push happens last so everything that pulls from the web will run before and the push to Arrow will happen after all of that happens so that everything is pushed up.

[MarkE]

Justin - First, thank you for putting the test account out there!  This is great to get a comfort level with how this works prior to hitting the pay button.  I've been playing with this a little as a test CC race and seem to be getting what I was expecting.  One "bug" that I noted is if there is a read that comes through without a name associated it does not show on the live results (this part is good).  If I then go in and edit the participant list to include this runner it will not show up in the results (this part is not good).  

Brian - On a related note, when I minimize the clock screen to edit the participant data I get the message:

If I hit continue, all seems to work fine.

Thanks guys,

Mark

[MarkE]

Sorry for the rapid fire here.  After I shut the test race down I looked back at the live results (http://www.arrowliveresults.com/Results/Events?pEventId=59) and now a few of the finishers are showing with negative splits.  FWIW - one of the negative splits is a runner that I added to the database after the start of the race.

[bmatt]

Has anyone tried it using cross country team results? There isn't a drop down for team results.

[blueridgetiming]

I was planning a test on a small xc meet tomorrow. Team results would be nice, although this is a huge step nonetheless.

[Justin Morse]

Hey Mark, 

The way it works now is that you "sync" before you begin timing and it will catch times for every participant that was included in the race when you hit the sync button. The only time it will call the website during a race is to post a new split to the board. The only way to get a new participant up is to hit the sync button again. I could have it push up any new participants when they are added but I will have to talk to Brian about how he wants to handle that. 

As for the negative splits, I looked at the race and there is only one finisher. I'm guessing that you have edited that race while testing. Can you give me an idea of how far off it was? Were the other times correct besides the negative ones?

[Justin Morse]

Cross country races do not work on live results yet. I'm going to have to dig into how to make that work. It's on my list of features to add.

[blueridgetiming]

If using a remote split point, would it be possible to load those results as split one, and then the finish results to the same link?

[Justin Morse]

Yes. You only have to sync the race to Arrow, copy the ART database over to your split point(s), make sure the Arrow credentials are in the settings page on each split point, make sure you have internet connection at the split point(s), and it should push those splits up live no matter how many split points you have. If you do not have internet connectivity at all of your split points then they will all show up when you combine the databases together in ART after the race and sync the race to Arrow. If you only have internet connectivity at the finish then the finish time will show as the first split. I have it on my list of things to do to let users override the number of splits if they only want to show finish times but right now I am just taking what ART has as number of splits and pushing it up.

I hope that makes sense, if you have any more questions let me know.

Thanks

[Hronometar]

Thanks much Justin!

These are really good news about live split times.

Justin, I am getting problem with Updating Arrow Live Results when Sync button is pressed. I have entered the credentials correctly in Options/External Accounts, and getting a message that there is problem about credentials and internet connections. Please, take a look on attached files. Also, I have tried to set race start date/time after current ToD and before race is started, but it also doesn't work. If race is active and timing is in process, it doesn't sync as well. If you do not mind, I can email you privately .db file I use to test live results?

Does Arrow Live Results accept events form all countries you have in Country list?

[Justin Morse]

Are you using the test credentials to log in or did you subscribe? I havn't heard anything about the test credentials not working. Try putting the credentials in and trying again if you are using those. Live results should take events from anywhere in the world.

Thanks

[blueridgetiming]

Justin, 

Two things from today's test.

1) http://www.arrowliveresults.com/10kRunWalk, shows two negative times as the winners. For one of the errors #558, he switched bibs with his wife, so I swapped their bibs in ART for awards sake, but perhaps this caused an issue. No idea what happened with bub #509. He was pre registered. I didnt get a chip start on him, but his finish time should be 53:00. Last, the winner ran 34:02 and is not displayed on the arrow results page. Here is a link to the results that were pushed to RSU: https://runsignup.com/race/results/?raceId=29407#resultSetId-93955

2) Is there any way to push at least the overall place to the live feed?

I can try to connect and push again, but wanted you to see what it looked like before i did that.

Doug

[Justin Morse]

Hey Doug,

Right around the time you were pushing results up I was working on the site. Sorry if that caused you any issues. I hope that was the problem though. Go ahead and sync again to see if everything gets lined out please. It's also possible for an individual to get missed when they come through if the cell service is bad at the time or something. Were you using mobile data? My suggestion would be to always sync after the race too so that if anyone does get missed they will show up at the end. Im adding in the ability to sync to arrow from the clock screen so if you see that someone is not showing on live results, you can sync then and there and they will get pushed up.

Thanks Doug for your feedback. 

[Hronometar]

I have tried with test credentials what you sent in the first email. When I hit the Test button next to Password field in Options screen, I get a message 'Success!' what I sent in last email. But in Open Race screen, after pressing Sync, it informs me that there is an error with Arrow Live Results update.

I can Log in on www.arrowliveresults.com, but do not know why it cannot update from ART.

[Justin Morse]

That is strange. Can you email me your database to jmo...@arrowdm.com?

[Hronometar]

Sure!

I have sent you a few databases. I have the same problem with any .db file.

[Mix Sport - Brazil SP]

Hello Justin, I've been doing some test in the live results, very good congratulations we will certainly be one of your many clients. So we have an observation, when the event has several round the results live does not update the positions.

Follow the link for you to verify.

http://www.arrowliveresults.com/Results/Events?pEventId=79

Thank you.

[Brian Agee]

I was looking for this post and finally found it.

I tried to get this error to pop up and never could, then of course on race day it decides to make its presence known every time I minimized the clock screen. For hours after the race, and for many hours yesterday, I tried my best to get the error to pop up (with a complete hardware setup identical to what I had at the race) and it simply would not. Very frustrating because if I can replicate it I can fix it. It's possible that some improvements I made unknowingly fixed this, but of course I would rather be 100% confident it's fixed than put my hope on a "probably fixed".

MarkE (and anyone else willing to try), can you get the update I pushed out this morning and see if you can get this error to pop up. If everyone signs off that they cannot get the error message to pop up then I'll feel good that it is indeed fixed. Thanks!

[Justin Morse]

I will be keeping the testing account open until after this Saturday due to a few bugs being found and to allow more time for testing.

[Justin Morse]

If anyone is having trouble syncing races and getting an error that the username and password are incorrect, I have fixed a bug that was making it fail. Sadly the change is in ART so the fix won't be available until Brian pushes out another patch. 

Thanks everyone for your input and for reporting any bugs you find.

Justin

[Justin Morse]

Mix, 

Good catch. That was working until recently. I must have broken it when trying to speed the load process up.

[Brad Kline]

"It's possible that some improvements I made unknowingly fixed this". What's the opposite of regression testing?

[MarkE]

I'll try to pull the new version tomorrow sometime and do a bit more testing with it.  I'm at a meet currently so I won't be able to check anything today anymore.  To be sure, do I just use the "free trial" button again for the new download?

[Brian Agee]

:)

5.1 was a beast of an update. A lot of time was spent in testing. Now that we're full swing into XC and the late summer/ Fall season it's more about get it fixed and pushed out asap. Basically this kid in the black shirt represents me after an official update is announced a bug is found right off the bat: https://www.facebook.com/KnoxvilleYouthAthletics/videos/10155683770179371/

Enjoy!

[Brian Agee]

Yes sir, thanks!

[Brian Agee]

I just pushed out an update that has Justin code in it. This basically means you no longer have to remember to click "Sync" on the Open Race screen (where you add/edit athletes) before opening the clock screen. You can press F10 or click the link that says "Arrow Refresh" to do a complete refresh of the athletes and results on Arrow Live Results.

I also requested an option to disable the live sync if needed - I never want the clock screen doing a non-essential task that I cannot easily stop if there is a problem. So you'll see a link under the "F10" option that allows you to enable or disable the live sync.

Besides the live sync, this update also fixes a small bug in multi-lap races where the "Split Descriptions" were not showing up next to the split times.

[MarkE]

Justin - 

I timed a CC meet tonight using the live results feature.  Two smaller races (boys/girls) that seemed to go fine.  After the races were over I looked online with my phone to check and everything looked OK at a glance, basically looking at the first 5-10 finishers for each race.  I closed out ART 5.1 and packed up.  After getting home, I pulled up the results and saw the following for the girls race (http://www.arrowliveresults.com/Results/Events?pEventId=71):

Runner 4005 was the correct winner, with the runners below that in the correct sequence.  Runners 4001 and 4022 were both finishers with recorded times of 11:40 & 12:11 (37th & 46th places).  Nothing else notable about the individuals that I noticed.

I have not messed with the ART dbase or live results info since noticing this.  If there's anything you would like to see from this, let me know.

Mark

[blueridgetiming]

Mark,

The same thing happened to me yesterday. If you sync again now, it should fix those two negative times.

[MarkE]

Yep, saw your post too.  I wanted to give Justin a chance to look at this again or check my dbase if desired.  I don't have another meet for several days so I have a little time and I'm not using these results long term since they're not branded.  Great test bed though, generally really like the concept and functionality.

[Justin Morse]

​Mark,

I was looking into how the two girls had negative times and I only saw the one split for each of them and that the times were about 4 and a half hours before the start of the race. I'm not sure why those were pushed up like that. I have added in some code to not show negative results and will look into why they were getting pushed up like that. A sync should fix it but if you would like to leave it like it is I can use it for testing.

Thanks,

Justin

[MarkE]

Justin - FWIW, my computer wasn't even powered on 4.5 hours before the race.  Also, I did sync just before the race start.  At this point, I don't need this result set so do what you want with it.  If you want/need any info from my setup or dbase, shoot me a message.  I'd be glad to help.

[Hronometar]

Justin,

I still have problem to update results to Arrow. Getting the same message with newest software update of version 5.1.0026 (Last Updated: 9/18/2017 2:48:13 PM). When I hit Test button in Options screen, it gives me a message 'Success!', but there is no way I can have an URL seen in Edit Race page after Sync is pressed.

I saw that you have published a race from an database I sent you. I was curious and deleted the event from Arrow with Remove button. Sorry! Before removing, I noticed that a DQ participant got to 1st place with best time (he had the best time but was DQ) on half marathon route, but he had to be on the last position. Another thing I noticed, it doesn't accept all languages. Please, can you make it to accept UTF-8 encoding like ART accepts? Also, there were 4 split times with Split Description different than default, but Arrow named them by default (Split1, Split2, etc.).

Suggestion: It would be useful to have a column for placement like in ART Overall and Division Results reports. Then, in that column, DQ and DNF participants could have those abbreviations for placement.

Brian, if Sync is not pressed in Open Race and an URL is not stored in Edit Race, does pressing F10 automatically create an event on Arrow web site and totally changes Sync button? I have attached a few images what happens with Arrow Refresh button when I press it.

[Justin Morse]

Hey Hronometar,

Sorry that you are having trouble pushing up races to Arrow. The fix didn't actually make it into the release that was released yesterday. There should be another update today. I'll look into the UTF-8 encoding. I was talking to Brian about the DQ and DNF participants and I think we have a path forward on that. I'll let you know when that is included in an ART version. 

Also, when the sync button is pressed or F10 is hit, the label will turn red if it fails. You are getting the failure because the ART release does not have the fix yet.

[Steve Hudson]

Just downloaded latest version

Live results do happen, although the exact time differs with ART. Even though we are talking hundredths, I'm just mentioning it. In a previous version I had 05 hundredths and that was displayed in Arrow as 50 hundredths.

Just done some testing and unassigned runners occurred in the results : which obviously do not go thru to Arrow. I then edited them in ART and gave existing Bib Nos and sure enough they went thru to Arrow, BUT they had ONE hour added to their time ?

[Steve Hudson]

...F10 refresh seems to have put everything right. Good, thanks.

[Justin Morse]

Steve, 

An F10 should put everything right for you as it does a full reset but I will try to get to the bottom of the 1hr time difference. What it EXACTLY one hour? I think the hundredths of a second difference I think is a rounding issue and I've seen it but have not had time to fix t. I will implement the rounding as ART does so that everything looks the same.

Thanks for all of the feedback!

Justin 

[Hronometar]

Justin,

I could upload a race today to Arrow, but it was a race from a new created database. It is only the way to upload a race. If I use an old database (with past races) with for example, ID 54, it cannot publish it.

As Steve had a problem about added one hour, I had two hours added. So it looks that it makes some difference between UTC and local UTC in time zone. Time zone I use is CEST what is during the summer UTC +2. Additional 2 hours were added when I wanted to change a time. I had a result with .09 hundredths in ART, but in Arrow it was shown as .90 hundredths. When I edited it to .30, Arrow added 2 more hours to that result.

Before editing the result, I was pressing F10 and Sync button to make hundreds the same like in ART for that record, but there were no changes. When the time was edited and Arrow added 2 hours to the record, a hit to F10 fixed it. The same as Steve said.

I could notice that by default Arrow has Overall, Male and Female categories/divisions. If someone create similar category in ART, then those categories are doubled in Arrow. For example, by Arrow it is Male, and by an ART user (read me) Men Overall or Men Absolute. Different names but the same results. Well, what do you say that you by default create just Overall or General results, and that all of other divisions are taken from ART?

[Justin Morse]

Hronometar ,

Weird, I will have to look into it the hours getting added. It should not matter what time zone you are in as the site only uses the time stamp from ART for the split and subtracts the time stamp for the start of the race from ART also. 

The hundredths place getting moved to the tenths place is also weird. It must be a formatting issue. I'll look at that when I look at the rounding issue. I am going to remove the male and female from there. I put them in for my own testing and 

have noticed that they are not needed anymore. 

Thanks,

Justin

[Steve Hudson]

Thanks, Hronometar, Thanks, Justin...I'm sure you'll crack it, are you both using the same time but formatting the displayed value differently ?

[Justin Morse]

Yes. We are using the same times. I was formatting differently on the site. I have it fixed but cant update the site yet.  When Brian puts out another update I'll update the site since some of my changes are tied into his next release. I don't think this will fix the adding of hours bug. Just the milliseconds being different. 

[Mix Sport - Brazil SP]

Justin, here in Brazil I have problem in time in the results live, difference in 3 hours for more, could be the time zone?

Hugs

[Mix Sport - Brazil SP]

Justin to check the difference between the times, check the number 13. screens below

[blueridgetiming]

So I just updated to the latest version of ART and now I can't connect to Arrow. Good internet, correct username/password. 

When I login to the webpage with the same name it works fine, however. On the other hand, when I go back to a previous event to try to upload that also fails.

Any ideas?

[Brian Agee]

Justin can provide a definitive answer, but when doing a quick review of the code changes he put in for the live results I see that he added an "ArrowID" to the Race table. This should results in a solid connection between an event in ART and an event on Arrow. In the past the connection was fairly loose and multiple events were showing up on Arrow.

He may have an easy solution on how to get the previous events to have a proper connection with an ArrowID.

[Justin Morse]

Sorry everyone, I accidentally left the testing address for the API enabled in ART so Live Results will not be working until Brian pushes out an update. He said he will push one out soon. I'll let you know when it is available if Brian does not. 

Again, sorry for anyone testing on the newest version and if you haven't downloaded it yet, please wait till you hear that is issue is fixed and a new update is available before downloading.

Thanks,

Justin

[Brian Agee]

I did a quick check to see if there is anything else I can add to this patch. Besides the Live Results update here is what is included:

1. A user found that when entering athletes, if some are in all lower case, proper casing, and all upper case then the sorting of names on the Roster is not correct. Turns out SQLite does not handle sorting the same way as SQLCE (at least not with the default properties of a column). I've added code in the database and on the report to fix this.

2. A user requested that when using the "Bottom fill" option on the Division results that the software should continue looking for other 'bottom' divisions that the athlete may belong in and include them in those as well. For example, the user wanted an "Overall Male Winners" division (these winners are excluded in the Age group divisions) however he also wanted an "Absolute Male" division that simply included everyone. This update will achieve this. 

3. I found one other spot where the program was trying to move a file for the 5.1 migration so I added in some code that will hopefully grant read/write access to the folder to allow the move to occur without saying "Access is denied" if their windows users account doesn't have full permission to that folder.

For those with races this weekend. I would recommend updating all of the PCs you plan to use with the newest patch. Since at least one of the patches included a database there could be problems if your computers are not running the same update to the software. Just wanted to send out a note to make sure there are not surprises on race day.

[Brian Agee]

This patch is available on the website now.

[Justin Morse]

To all that are using/testing the Arrow Live Results. If you do not download this newest patch then Arrow Live Results site will not work for you. I had to make changes in how the systems work together so any previous versions will not work with the site. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Justin

[CK Timing]

is the test user name and password still active? I have a multi-race (3 mile, 6 mile, 4 hour, 4 hour relay) tomorrow and was hoping to try it out. 

[Justin Morse]

Yes. I will keep it active until at least Sunday. Results will still be available a few days after I turn off the test account access.

[blueridgetiming]

In some testing just now, it seems as if the data/results are getting pushed to the web although they will only appear when you refresh the page. 

Is this accurate? If so, is there any way we can have the page refresh itself?

[Justin Morse]

It should refresh itself every 30 seconds.

[Justin Morse]

blueridgetiming,

If you havn't installed the latest version of ART from yesterday, do that first, then remove all instances of that race from the live results page under dashboard and then resync the event. There may be more than one instance of an event depending on when you published it and what version of ART you are/where on. There were functional changes in the site and ART that may be showing you one instance of an event while you are pushing to another instance.

Let me know if that helps please,

Justin

[blueridgetiming]

Yup, all fresh reinstalls.

I did notice that if you were to use the exact same race name (for two different races) it didn't seem to like that top much.

I'm not sure what this would do for thode who use the same race from year to year.

[Justin Morse]

Yeah. That's a known issue but I didn't want to mess with the site since some people have races today. I'm going to make it where the URLs are truly unique per race going forward. A quick fix for this is to slightly rename the race you are using and resync and you will get a different URL. That should be unique and send you to the page of the correct race. Make sure when you rename it you add/remove a letter or number since all other types of characters and spaces are removed when creating the URL.

[Hronometar]

Justin,

thanks much for adding column Place and for removing default divisions Overall Male and Overall Female.

I could find a few things they should be changed/fixed.

In column Division, for every single Male of Female participant, Arrow show that there is a custom category (Men/Women SU) with custom Athlete Type 'SU'. That is not correct. It can be seen in any chosen category from Division list. Link to the race. Maybe just 1/3 of all of participants are in categories Men SU and Women SU.

Men Overall and Women Overall divisions show all participant, but they should list only the first three athletes as they are winners (the same as it is shown in ART). Winners from those categories are excluded from all bottom age groups categories but they also have wrong ranking in Arrow (they are not excluded in bottom age groups). Also, they have identical results as Men Absolute and Women Absolute categories. Here it is how is shown in PDF report from the ART.

When I chose Men SU, or Women SU division, it gives me the same results like Men Overall / Men Absolute, or Women Overall / Women Absolute. In this division, Arrow should present only participants with Athlete Type 'SU'.

UTF-8 still doesn't work. Participants in Overall division with places: 103 and 137. Bib #s 134 and 233. The name of the event should be written as 'Subotički' instead 'Suboticki'.

Columns for time show names by default (Split 1, Split 2 etc.). Here you can see a race from today with 2 splits. Their names in ART are 12,1 km and 21,1 km.

DQ participants who are marked as DQ in ART, in Arrow are treated as regular finishers with place number in column Place. As I wrote a few days ago, they should have abbreviations DQ and DNF in column Place if they don't have all splits completed or they are just disqualified for any reason. Please, take a look for last 10-15 participants on the bottom of the list. Those participants do not have times on check point 12,1 km but have times on the finish line 21,1 km. All of them are DQ by race director. Also, it would be perfect if Arrow can place their times in correct column. In this case I have explain, times should be placed in column 'Split 2'. Here is a sample I'd like it to work like this. If you do not have picked a time up on timing position of 600 m, and then you have it on 5 km, the time should be stored in column of 5 km.

Is it possible that we have the header always visible on the top of page when the page is scrolled down?

I would like to ask you to leave test account for several more days. Maybe a week or 10 days more. I am ready to pay for your services and guess there are more timers, but give us some more time to test it and to perfect this live results. Hope no one here on the forum will take advantage of it.

I have a list of wishes and suggestions for Arrow, and I will email here next week.

[Anders]

It would be really great it UTF-8 encoding would work. Here in Sweden we have å ä ö as really common letters...

[Anders]

Hello Justin!

We have tried the Livetiming and it seems to be a really good feature.

1 - At the top of the racepage you have some weather information...Is that the weather at the time for the race or "now"?

In Sweden we use Celsius, Is it possible to change it to C instead of F? Or remove it if it is not possible to change?

2 - Selection of country... As a Swede I think it is a very long list. Since most of the countries in the list doesn't have any race (and never will have?) it would be great if you can let that list grow when races are added to a new country. In that way would all countries in the list have races. An other problem with that long list is that it is VERY long when you are scrolling it on a smart phone...

I guess we will have more ideas when will start using it "for real"...

/Anders

[Hronometar]

Today I was timing an event with 4 races (5k, 10k, Half Marathon and Relay Half Marthon 3 x 7 k). After pushing a race to Arrow, I was not able to push all other 3 races. I tried to delete the race from Arrow and publish some other race, but it was not possible. Sync button looks like it is updated, but in Edit Race there is no URL for Arrow. 

I would like to request possibility that we can store all races on the same day that belong to an event and that we have a filter for choosing a race, and another one for divisions. 

[Justin Morse]

Hey Hronometar,

First of all, thank you for all of the feedback. It is incredibly helpful. I'll try to address each one of your concerns here and let you know what I'm working on to make it better.

1. I was unaware of how ART was handling Athlete type to Division mapping so I will have to add this into ART as well as the site. I have a plan forward and will be working on it today.This will require un update to ART to get it working on the site. 

2.  I do not want the system to show only the top finishers because I would like everyone who particpates to be able to see where they rank in their Divison. As for the winners of Men/Women Overall being excluded from lower results sets, this will take a lot of intense calculation each time the page refreshes and I can see this being a HUGE bottleneck on page refresh time. I will continue looking into a way to handle that but I can't see a path forward that would allow that to happen without the page loads suffering horribly. 

3. #1 will fix that.

4. I am working on getting UTF-8 working it may or may not require an ART update also. It should not be long until it is working for you guys. 

5. I'm not sure Why your split descriptions are not showing on the page. I'm looking into that today too.

6. I have DQ working on the site but it will require an ART update before it will begin showing.

7. Which part do you mean by header? The race name and information? That's possible. I'll see if I can make it happen. I have plans to make the results page look a little better but it's close to the bottom of the list of things to work on.  

8. I'll leave the account open until I have these few things fixed and after a couple of days of testing I'll shut it off when I feel it is stable and anything else I would add would be a feature instead of neccessity. I will let everyone know when I end the test account.

9. As for only one of your 4 races being pushed up, I'll look into it. That should be a simple fix but it will require an ART update also.

[Justin Morse]

Anders, 

1. I can make that work as C or F. I'll add it to my list.

2. I am going to make that list where you can filter it when you type I think. I agree, it is a long list and it is part of the redesign i have planned for the results page.

Thanks,

Justin

[Justin Morse]

Hronometar,

I was able to publish all of the my races from the clock screen. I think that you are under the assumption that it will publish them all by clicking the button(or F10) but you must first select which race you want to public by clicking on the clock and selecting the race from there before pushing F10. It's neccessary because it will take a long time to publish all of the races even if you only needed to publish one. 

Correct me if I'm wrong about what you were saying.

Thanks again,

Justin

[blueridgetiming]

I mentioned this in my other post, but this header might be more fitting.

After importing a split from a remote location into ART, if anyone was missed, their finish time becomes their first split and then their finish is left blank. 

http://www.arrowliveresults.com/Mens6kUnofficial

I know in previous versions of ART, if you imported splits and someone was missing a split, they were given a split of 0:00:00.

[Justin Morse]

blueridgetiming,            

I know this is going to be an issue sometimes but there is not much I can do about it since I only push up that a time occured while the race is being timed and have no way of knowing how the splits are set up. The only way to get it right is to republish the race. I'll talk to Brian about it some and see if he has any ideas how this could be done.

[Justin Morse]

LIVE RESULTS SITE CHANGES.

I have fixed most of the bugs that you guys have pointed out. Some are working now, some will require an ART update. 

UTF-8 encoding is working now for some things and not others from what I can tell. It will take an ART update to get it all working correctly.

EventURLs are now really unique. You don't have to worry about repeat URLs if you use the same race from two different databases. This is working now.

I fixed the split descriptions showing up as Split 1, Split 2, etc instead of your descriptions from ART. This is working now.

I added athlete types for participants and divisions so that athlete type filtering for divisions will work. This requires an ART update.

I made the weather show Celcius if you are outside the US. I will make this work for the other countries that use F too later but this will get everyone going for now. This is working now.

Now that I have most of the bugs worked out, i am going to start working on some of the suggested UI changes to get the results screen a little easier to use.

Thanks everyone for testing and giving me feedback. It is really appreciated.

Justin

[Hronometar]

Justin,

thanks for your great services and all questions answered! Here are my comments on some of your bullets.

#2  About showing just the top 3 athletes (or more, depends how it is set in Edit Race) in 'Men/Women Overall', Brian explain me that ART works like that and if I understood him well, some of American timers wanted it like that. Well, if some race director requires that top three winners from 'Men/Women Overall' have to be excluded from age groups divisions, ART doesn't show me all participants in 'Men/Women Overall'. Because of that I have required that I can set one more 'Men/Women Overall' what I called 'Men/Women Absolute' (what are not excluded in age group categories), that list me all male and female participants. Here is Brian post about that (#2). Here you can see my setup of divisions for one race in 'Edit Race' screen. For me it would be perfect if I don't need to create 'Men/Women Absolute' that ART can print me all Male and Female participants in Division Results report. If only 'Men/Women Overall' can do that (when these winners are excluded from bottom divisions), I would have no need for creating 'Men Absolute'. Then, this would be better for Arrow too (there would not be 2 identical divisions with different names).

Really hope you are going to manage it that age group divisions exclude winners from 'Men/Women Overall' on Arrow when it is set like that in 'Edit Race'.

#5  I see you have posted that names of splits are fixed. Now, unfortunately it gives the same name for all splits and that names are the name of the last one. Link to the race.

#6  I'm going to wait for new ART update to test it. Have a few races with DQ and DNF participants.

#7  About the header, I meant that dark blue needs to be always visible. The header of the table with name of columns (Place, Bib #, Last, First, etc.). About the race name and information, as bluridgetiming said, it can be much better organized. To be shown in a few 'columns'. Not to take much places between a black line and dark blue header. You know what I mean. :) Also, the name of the race could be written with smaller font size not to go to 2nd row/line if we have some longer names of a race. Or if it can automatically reduce the font size.

#9  You are right. I had to hit F10 in Clock page after selecting every new race in left upper corner. Now I can see all of the races in Dashboard and all races in Edit Race have an URL. I was just changing the races in Open Race screen and hitting Sync button when it wasn't working. :) Thanks!

-----------------

Other suggestions and requests:

• Is it possible to have both times, 'Gun Time' and 'Chip Time' shown on Arrow? Here is an idea. If we have 'Display Chip Time' chosen in Clock page, Arrow should take Chip Times and next to them store another column called Gun Times, but Chip Times should be bold and a ranking made by them. Then, ART should remember 'Display Chip Time' selected with every opening and closing Clock page (for cases there are timers that want results sorted by Gun Time, every new opening and closing Clock page should have 'Display Gun Time' selected).
• To add a small footer where we could have the name of the company and maybe a logo or some other information. It would be great to have more information to add in Log in part about details of the company. Web, email, phone #, etc.
• Can you provide an option that we can sort up/down all details by any columns? Then, when we wanna get it back by default how program sort it with the first opening, just to hit refresh in browser or F5, and it should take it back to be sorted by time.
• Is it necessarily for split points to have correct names in registrations in Open Race screen to have real names on Arrow? Talking for remote timing, not for timing 2 or more splits on finish line. When I need to time one or more check points + finish line, but that races have race day registrations, I don't wait for them to have it in Open Race for timing check points. For bib # 1, I give a last and first name called 1. For bib # 2, I give 2 and 2. Etc. If I set it like that, could I have on Arrow correct names?
• Could it be possible to integrate an event page with live results to another web page of some race that requires live results on their page? Timers who use Race Result services have this possibility.
• What do you say about creating custom certificates in one more column on Arrow?
• Please, can you add a column with country abbreviations but to use IOC or IAAF country codes. Not ISO codes. Brian uses ISO codes what are not correct for sport events. For you in US, it could show abbreviations of States, and for all of us in rest of the world, it could show country codes. Or maybe to make it more colorful with country flags?

Here are a few portals for publishing results where you can get some ideas about making Arrow more aesthetic:

1. results.42km.ro
2. sportido.hu
3. stotinka.hr
4. trka.rs

Please, could you explain this with a few more words: "EventURLs are now really unique. You don't have to worry about repeat URLs if you use the same race from two different databases. This is working now."?

Thank you!

[Justin Morse]

Hronometar,

On #2, I know what is happening in ART but what I am saying is that it would slow down the system to a crawl to do that many calculations every page refresh. I'm trying to find a solution to that but in the mean time I won't be able to do it unless I figure out how to do it faster.

On #5, It works fine on my end but I am running ART from the code. I will look into it more.

On # 7, I have a plan laid out for how to make the results page look better. I was working on function before aesthetics. After the results page i will be working on other pages to make them look better and add more information.

I'm currently working on adding in Chip Times.

The names of the participants are directly taken from ART so whatever you name them in ART is what their name will be in ALR. Whenever you publish/sync those names are changed then. 

It is possible if you are using the API option. You can grab the information and use it on any page you would like. In the future I will have a plugin that is embeddable and is easy to add but for now the API is the only option. The plugin access will be part of the API pricing tier which is $200/year.

What do you mean by "custom certificates"?

I'm going to stick with what Brian is using for County codes because it makes integration easier.

About the custom URLs, if you had two events named the same description it would give you the same URL and that URL would take you only to the last race with that description. They are now always unique because I am checking to see if it exists before making it and if so, Adding the race id to the end to that it is truly unique.

Thanks for the feedback,

Justin

[Hronometar]

Thank you!

About certificates, I meant to have online diplomas on ALR. Something like this. Then, participants could download their online diplomas. When I said custom, maybe to print details from ALR such as name, time, place etc to different positions on a diploma. Depends on a diploma design. To have an option on ALR for input of PNG or PDF plain diploma before race has started. They should be generated automatically.

[Justin Morse]

Oh. I see. That's a cool idea. I don't think I will get to it soon but i will add it to the list.

Thanks,

Justin

[Hronometar]

Justin,

when a time record in ART is edited, after updating ALR, the time record is reduced by one hundredths. I know this is almost nothing, but just to let you know. For example, recorded time was 00:15:20.77 in ART. The same is published in ALR. After editing it in ART to 00:15:19.77, it updates in ALR to 00:15:19.76. Doesn't mater which part of the time record is edited, the hundredths are reduced by 00:00:00.01.

[Justin Morse]

Hronometar,

I and a couple of others have seen this already too. I can't figure it out yet. I'm sure it has something to do with how the timings are getting rounded when coming over the API. I'll get it figured out but I will have to dig into it. 

Thanks,

Justin

[MarkE]

Hey Justin, just wanted to check on the status of the test account.  I didn't want to assume it's going to be there for a race Thursday if you were about to pull the plug on it.  

Thanks,

Mark

[Justin Morse]

The test account will be open until Friday morning.

[MarkE]

Thanks Justin, really appreciate the chance to "drive before we buy" on this feature.

[Hronometar]

I am testing again updating results to ALR, and I see that DQ and DNF still doesn't work well.

All DQ participants has to be on the bottom of the list. For now, some of them are in the middle of the list. Looks like it depends on their finish time where they are placed in the list. Please, check out these results. All of them have finish time, but they missed a check point and race director wanted them to be disqualified. Also, please could you make DQ participants just to have DQ abbreviation in column Place, but in columns for time that we can see their times? The same like in PDF results (please, take a look at the bottom of the results).

About DNF participants. If some of participants who do not have all splits completed, we mark as DNF in ART, it is not visible in live results. Well, it would be useful to have that abbreviation in column Place. For now, all participants with not completed splits, in column Place have a number of their position. DNF participants cannot have a regular position. It is OK to stay like that during the race, but in some moment when DNF is marked in ART, it should be changed and visible in ALR after updating. Here is a sample with DNF participants in a PDF report.

Auto refresh of the page takes us to the top of the results list. Please, can you make the page to leave the results in the same position after refreshing?

For some reason, both split time columns have the same name of the column. It should be 12,1 km and 21,1 km.

As you are going to cancel test account in a few hours, please, let us know when you implement these options:

• exclude winners from bottom divisions,
• adding chip time and sorting results by 'Chip/Gun Time',
  
• placing times in correct columns during live timing and updating live results from a few remote timing locations.

Here we have a new bug. In Men Overall, ALR shows all male and female participants - same as Overall. Women Overall works fine. Also, in this results list for division Men KŠ you can see that Arrow lists female participants. In Men Absolute as well.

Thanks much for all fixes and changes you have made!

[Hronometar]

Justin,

I was playing now with live remote timing, and it looks that it is not working correctly. I was following your instructions from this post, and every time I update results or create a new time record, it overwrite results list with new records and already entered records are lost. It doesn't create new column with results.

Well, I have created a race, did Sync, started the clock. Then closed the ART, copied .db, edited Split Description and distance, went to clock page and made some split times. Changed .db file to the firs one (for finish line), made some time records but for different bib# and noting happened with live update. When I pushed F10, it just overwrote results in Arrow and all times from the split point get lost. It doesn't allow me to create one more column for finish line. Timing was made manually on one PC.

Did anyone test this - real scenario?

[blueridgetiming]

Yes, I tested this exact scenario and found what you found. I had a remote split at the 1 mile and then a reader at the finish. As athletes went through the 1 mile, their splits showed up, but then as they came through the finish, their 1 mile splits were overwritten with the finish times. 

It's not until you import splits from the 1 mile into the finish computer and then upload that you'll see all splits on the same page. 

If it is a possibility, perhaps if splits are named differently, ART would only post to that specific column. Although this is probably much easier said than done.

On the other hand, a quick fix would be to create a different event/link for each split. To this end, it'll work and the worst thing is that coaches would have to click on a few links throughout the day to follow their athletes...no so bad compared to the alternative of no splits if you asked me :)

[Justin Morse]

Hronometar,

The fix for the splits getting removed when a new one is added should be in the latest release. Brian said he has been pushing out patches almost daily. If you are sure that you are on the latest release let me know and I will look at it more closely but I cannot replicate it here so far. 

All DQ participants are going to the bottom now and I added back in he times for DQ participants. 

I will add in DNF soon. It will work like the DQ. 

It's a difficult process to save the place in the page and the table the way I am doing it. I will add it to the wish list though. It should automatically update the times though every thirty seconds so there should be much need to update the page. 

The split names should now be correct. 

I am working on Chip times and hope to have it done this weekend. 

[blueridgetiming]

Wow this is impressive! Great work Justin!

[allans]

Pardon me if this has been discussed already.

Justin, do you have an example of what the custom API might look like?  Will it be a webapp similar to your website that you embed into your own webpage?  Please excuse my ignorance of what a custom API is.

Thanks,
Sean

[Justin Morse]

allans,

My hope in the future is to have an embedded widget that you can put on your own page but for the time being access to the API requires programming knowledge.

Here is the help guide to the API for anyone interested. 

http://www.arrowliveresults.com/help

Thanks,

Justin

[Hronometar]

Thanks for the replies and for all you've done!

All yesterday's tests were made with current version 5.1.0032 (Last Updated: 9/28/2017 7:48:32 PM). I was testing it again as the blueridgetiming and me explained, and it is the same. After a Sync from 'Check Point' it overwrites times from 'Finish' and when times from Finish database are pushed, it overwrites 'Check Point' times.

Thanks for make DQ works correctly.

Yep, DNF should work the same, but they should be placed between regular finishers and DQ participants.

Here is the race that shows the same name for both split columns. I just did a Sync in Open Race page and then pushed F10 in Clock screen, but there are no changes. If you need .db file, I can email you.

Well, did you cancel the test account, or you are going to leave it for a few more days? I see there is no more Dashboard button. I have a 4 splits half marathon tomorrow and I would like to test it in real scenario. Of course, with no sharing the link to the results!

[Hronometar]

Justin,

with those last fixes, now any Division results do not work for age groups. Only Men Overall and Women Overall.

[Justin Morse]

Hronometar,

If you are syncing from two computers then that would make the split times disappear. The syncing should only happen from one PC. Syncing basically removes everything and pushes it back up. A sync should be done after the data is merged together in ART. The way I imagine the process would go is that you sync from one PC, copy the database over to the other split points, time the race(ART will push up times from all split points during the race), merge the databases after the race, and sync again to make sure everything is pushed up.

Can you email me the database so I can check it out? I can't reproduce the same name in both split columns error.

I did cancel the test account. 

I'm looking in to the division results not working for age groups error now. 

[blueridgetiming]

I noticed today that places don't show up on the mobile version, it is possible to get that field displayed on mobile sites?

I'm pretty sure places were listed on my browser version.

[Hronometar]

Yes, I was syncing from 2 PCs, but it is the same as you described how it should work. When I sync and start a race, copy the database to a split point, make some time records, ART doesn't push up any times and they do not appear on the web until F10 is pushed or Sync button is pressed. When I change .db file to finish line and make some records, it updates live results. I would like to have all splits visible on the ALR before merging data in ART.

Of course. I have emailed you privately.

[blueridgetiming]

2nd thing I noticed today...and im not sure if it was already brough up.

All times that are uploaded are clock times.

Is there a way we could specify which should be uploaded? I know in ART whatever option you select in the TV screen is what is uploaded to RSU. Perhaps the same option could control to arrow.

[Hronometar]

Yep, here is my request. The first bullet bellow drawing line.

[blueridgetiming]

Here's an item brought up by one of.my participants.

When using mobile device, when you click on a division the screen switches to that division. However, because of how the page and drop down box scroll, you cant get back to see the overall results without clicking the original link. When scrolling (or trying) to get back to the first option in the drop down list, it'll only let you see as high as the second option and not the top option.

[Justin Morse]

Hronometar, 

Are you sure the internet connection was working at the split PC? Was the "Enable Live Sync" checkbox ever unchecked on the split PC? Where the finish times being uploaded from the finish computer automatically or was it not uploading any times automatically from either PC?

Justin