Benin City - Lost without trace
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Nowa Omoigui
Mar 18, 2016, 7:05:26 PM3/18/16
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A. Jagun
Mar 18, 2016, 9:02:20 PM3/18/16
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The Sword of Oba Ovonramwen
It is now precisely four weeks since I went to the Musee du Quai Branly to see the exhibition of royal art from the Edo Kingdom of Benin (poster illustrated left). I needed that much time to wind down from the complex emotions that resulted from my visit. My people, the Ezechime Clan of mid-Western Nigeria, claim origin from Benin through an ancestral progenitor named Chime. The nine towns that comprise my clan have been subjects of great curiosity but little scholarship because their hybrid ethnicity did not fit into early colonial ethnography's invention of ethnic identities in Nigeria. Ezechime peoples use a dialect of the Igbo language speckled with Edo words but their kingship system is completely based on Edo-Benin templates with all the major Benin royal titles and position represented. When I went to bury my father last November, we spent a long time deliberating on the orientation of his grave because the head of a dead chief must point West towards Idu, as the ancestral homeland of Benin is known among my people. The final rituals of any such funeral are conducted in a remnant form of the Edo language, as are the songs that accompany the dead to the afterlife, even though many no longer know the meanings of the songs. You will however hear Ezechime peoples insist vehemently (using the Igbo language) that they are NOT Igbo and until you learn that they use several non-Igbo languages of ritual and communication, this kind of claim tends to be dismissed as irrelevant. Such dismissal leads to the simplistic analysis often carried out about ethnic identities in Africa where the obvious use of a language is often enough to incorporate a people into an ethnic identity often contrary to their own histories of origin. In any case, ethnographers steered clear of Ezechime Igbo peoples and saw their hybridity as a mark of ethnic impurity. It is only in the past couple of decades that scholarship started to recognize that hybridity is the primary mode of cultural production and the idea of ethnic purity is in fact a blatantly bad idea. Ezechime peoples are the ultimate hybrids and are made up of combinant groups of Igbo, Edo-Benin, Niger Delta, and Yoruba peoples with at least two known lines of descendants of Portuguese sailors who jumped ship at Ughoton and settled inland among the local peoples. Some of these Portuguese sailors were vassals of the Benin kings who were given titles, land and wives among the outlying towns under Edo rule. Traits of this Portuguese line pop up in from time to time in the form of very light skinned, grey-eyed and red-haired children.
It is not immediately apparent that the Benin exhibition considered the above issues. Instead it chose to focus tightly on an ideal of Edo-Benin ethnicity centered on the court of the Oba (kings). This might be because the exhibition uses artworks looted from Benin in the 1897 invasion of the kingdom by British soldiers. To shrink down the boundaries of an empire composed of multiethnic identities into this singular ideal of Benin ethnicity does incalculable injury to the history of Benin. It also produced the kind of problematic analysis that looks at modern Benin sculpture (for instance) solely in relation to ethnic Edo-Benin artists of the 20th Century without considering the impact of an artist like Ben Enwonwu, of the Onitsha-Ezechime, whose reinterpretation of classical Benin sculpture inaugurated a modernist reading of Benin art from 1950 onwards. Surely the use of various forms of Ozo title staffs (called Osisi and usually sourced from Benin artists) among the Ezechime classifies as parts of the wider Edo kingdom’s aesthetics. However, you don’t get this kind of nuance in scholarship that promotes an ethnic agenda in interpretations of indigenous African cultures.
As for the artworks shown in the Quai Branly exhibition, their history is by now very famous. In February 1897, an elite British force of about 1200 men (supported by several hundred African auxiliary troops and thousands of African porters) besieged Benin City, capital of the Edo Kingdom of Benin, whose ruler, the Oba Ovonramwen sat on a throne that was a thousand years old. The British Punitive Expedition used Maxim machine guns to mow down most of the Oba’s 130,000 soldiers and secure control of the capital city. They set fire to the city and looted the palace of 500 years worth of bronze objects that constituted the royal archive of Benin’s history, an irreplaceable national treasure. The king and his principal chiefs fled into the countryside, pursued by British forces who lay waste to the countryside as a strategy to force the people of Benin to give up their fugitive king. According to Richard Gott, for a further six months, a small British force harried the countryside in search of the Oba and his chiefs who had fled. Cattle was seized and villages destroyed. Not until August was the Oba cornered and brought back to his ruined city. An immense throng was assembled to witness the ritual humiliation that the British imposed on their subject peoples. The Oba was required to kneel down in front of the British military "resident" the town and to literally bite the dust. Supported by two chiefs, the king made obeisance three times, rubbing his forehead on the ground three times. He was told that he had been deposed. Oba Ovonramwen finally surrendered to stem the slaughter of his people. Many of his soldiers considered his surrender an unbearable catastrophe and committed suicide rather than see the king humiliated. A significant number, led by some chiefs, maintained guerilla warfare against the British for almost two years until their leaders were captured and executed. The remaining arms of the resistance thereafter gave up their arms and merged back into the general population.
I need to do a systematic analysis of the Quai Branly’s Benin exhibition, not as an academic evaluation but as a way of examining how the tangled skeins of Benin history impacted my own life as an individual. In that regard, bear in mind the above brief account of Oba Ovonramwen’s ouster. My grandfather—James Anyasibuokwuenu Ogbechie, son of Ugbaja, grandson of Iyeyi the Dreaded, herself a daughter of an Edo-Benin father—was in the Benin of Oba Ovonramwen when the British invaded Benin in 1897. Families lost parents, wives and children in the invasion and until his death in 1986, when I asked him about what happened in Benin on that day, he said “Uwa Kpu Epku” (the world turned upside down). The order of things was surely inverted when a God-King is defeated in battle, his palace burnt and looted, over one hundred thousand of his people killed, he is forced to kiss the ground in submission before British troops and have the local British resident place his foot on the royal head before being sent into exile. The king’s ouster disrupted the entire region of Edo control and its local economy collapsed. My grandfather lost everything. However he worked hard, married another wife and was just getting back on his feet when simultaneous tragedies struck. The British colonial government amalgamated their protectorates to create Nigeria in 1914. They subsequently did away with local money and introduced the British currency, thereby destroying the indigenous economy and wiping out local forms of wealth. My grandfather lost everything again and was reduced to penury. He fought against his fate and rebuilt but in 1918 but his new wife and son died in the Influenza epidemic. After a suitable period of mourning, he married my grandmother and they had nine sons many of whom died in various stages of childhood. Of the two surviving sons, one (Sylvester Okafor Ogbechie, whose name I bear) was conscripted into the British colonial auxiliaries during World War II and saw action in Burma. He was killed on his way back to Nigeria after the war. Left with only one son and despondent, my grandfather tried to kill himself. My father intervened and was able to save his life. Thereafter, as the only remaining son on his father, my father—Francis Osenweniwe Ogbechie-- spent the rest of his life working hard to raise the family out of poverty. He literally worked himself to death over the course of six decades but finally managed to rescue the family from penury and provide it with a modicum of the wealth and respect that was lost as a result of British colonization. My grandfather died in 1986 as the oldest man in the Nine Towns of the Ezechime clan. His son did not live nearly as long and passed away in 2006 finally exhausted after a lifetime of battling fate in this age our people call Enu Oyibo, the world brought about by the white incursion.
Ethnic identities are fluid among the Ezechime but this does not mean that individual identities are nebulous. I am Sylvester Okwunodu Uzugbodiuno Ogbechie the Second, Diviner Chieftain and Ozo of Onicha-Ugbo of the Ezechime Clan, son of Osenweniwe the Valiant--the king's cousin, grandson of Anyasibuokwuenu of great perseverance, grandson of Inyaji NwaAgamunye of the devotees of Nnem-Onicha the matriach goddess, descendant of a lineage dating back to the reign in Idu of Ogbuala the Giant (Oba Ozolua, 1483-1504) who laid waste to the riverine plains (Enuani). Last November, I buried my father on the front porch of his house in Onicha-Ugbo with his head pointing towards Idu, the ancestral homeland and watched his spirit cross the great river into the realm of the ancestors (his funeral is documented here: click to page 8). I sang the old songs, performed the ancient funeral rituals, and received emissaries from my cousins and uncles the kings of the Nine Towns who themselves are emissaries of the Idu/Edo kings. I say that UmuEzechime descend from Idu and that no amount of objective scholarship can undermine the strength of Ezechime claim to Benin ancestry.
I have written here at length to explain how British colonization ruined many things for my family and to point out that the kind of dry history of Africa that is common fare in scholarship is very problematic. The history of Benin is the history of its impact in the area of its empire, in the same way as the history of Britain is the history of its imperial ambitions and actions. This history is very complex. It was customary for representatives of the Benin kings to attend important royal functions in the Ezechime clan. It was also customary for all those chiefs in areas subject to the Oba’s rule to salute the royal sword of state at one time or another (pictured far right in this image).
The two swords taken from Oba Ovonramwen are now in Western museum collections. One is in the Pitt Rivers Museum and the other (the main bronze sword) was exhibited at the Quai Branly exhibition. After a lifetime of hearing about the Sword of Ovonramwen, I finally had a chance to see the sword and perform in front of it the traditional salute to Oba-Idu, the king. The sword of the King is the King and it is unlikely a chance to salute the sword would arise again soon. So I stood in front of the sword and gave the royal salute, dropping down on one knee with my hands crossed in front of my chest, palms flat out. With his sword in hand, the Oba dances the steps of the Ododuwa masquerade, a regal move that Don Pedro Obaseki has identified as owing in part to Portuguese dance moves performed in the 17th century court of Edo Kings. I’m sure the general audience witnessing my salute to the sword at the Museum was nonplussed by my action. However, it was important that I performed this obligation even at this distance, several thousand miles away from home.
In this regard, the sword of Ovonramwen does not belong to the Berlin Museum, the British Museum, or the Quai Branly, it belongs to his great grandson, Omo n’Oba n’Edo Uku Akpolokpolo Solomon Igbinoghodua Asiokuoba Akenzua, Erediauwa the First, 38th Oba of the Edo Kingdom of Benin who sits on the throne of his forefathers in a dynasty that dates back to the 12th Century. In time, even the most objective scholarship must confront the crime committed against the Edo Kingdom of Benin as a consequence of British colonization. In the meantime, Ezechime history shows that the story of Benin is very complex and full of nuances that are often overlooked in standard scholarship.
Posted 29th November 2007 by S. Okwunodu Ogbechie
Dr. Dokun Jagun
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 3/18/16, 'Nowa Omoigui' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Subject: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
To: "def...@yahoogroups.com" <def...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, March 18, 2016, 7:04 PM
Story of cities #5: Benin City,
the mighty medieval capital now lost without trace
Story
of cities #5: Benin City, the mighty medieval
capi...With
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It is now precisely four weeks since I went to the Musee du Quai Branly to see the exhibition of royal art from the Edo Kingdom of Benin (poster illustrated left). I needed that much time to wind down from the complex emotions that resulted from my visit. My people, the Ezechime Clan of mid-Western Nigeria, claim origin from Benin through an ancestral progenitor named Chime. The nine towns that comprise my clan have been subjects of great curiosity but little scholarship because their hybrid ethnicity did not fit into early colonial ethnography's invention of ethnic identities in Nigeria. Ezechime peoples use a dialect of the Igbo language speckled with Edo words but their kingship system is completely based on Edo-Benin templates with all the major Benin royal titles and position represented. When I went to bury my father last November, we spent a long time deliberating on the orientation of his grave because the head of a dead chief must point West towards Idu, as the ancestral homeland of Benin is known among my people. The final rituals of any such funeral are conducted in a remnant form of the Edo language, as are the songs that accompany the dead to the afterlife, even though many no longer know the meanings of the songs. You will however hear Ezechime peoples insist vehemently (using the Igbo language) that they are NOT Igbo and until you learn that they use several non-Igbo languages of ritual and communication, this kind of claim tends to be dismissed as irrelevant. Such dismissal leads to the simplistic analysis often carried out about ethnic identities in Africa where the obvious use of a language is often enough to incorporate a people into an ethnic identity often contrary to their own histories of origin. In any case, ethnographers steered clear of Ezechime Igbo peoples and saw their hybridity as a mark of ethnic impurity. It is only in the past couple of decades that scholarship started to recognize that hybridity is the primary mode of cultural production and the idea of ethnic purity is in fact a blatantly bad idea. Ezechime peoples are the ultimate hybrids and are made up of combinant groups of Igbo, Edo-Benin, Niger Delta, and Yoruba peoples with at least two known lines of descendants of Portuguese sailors who jumped ship at Ughoton and settled inland among the local peoples. Some of these Portuguese sailors were vassals of the Benin kings who were given titles, land and wives among the outlying towns under Edo rule. Traits of this Portuguese line pop up in from time to time in the form of very light skinned, grey-eyed and red-haired children.
It is not immediately apparent that the Benin exhibition considered the above issues. Instead it chose to focus tightly on an ideal of Edo-Benin ethnicity centered on the court of the Oba (kings). This might be because the exhibition uses artworks looted from Benin in the 1897 invasion of the kingdom by British soldiers. To shrink down the boundaries of an empire composed of multiethnic identities into this singular ideal of Benin ethnicity does incalculable injury to the history of Benin. It also produced the kind of problematic analysis that looks at modern Benin sculpture (for instance) solely in relation to ethnic Edo-Benin artists of the 20th Century without considering the impact of an artist like Ben Enwonwu, of the Onitsha-Ezechime, whose reinterpretation of classical Benin sculpture inaugurated a modernist reading of Benin art from 1950 onwards. Surely the use of various forms of Ozo title staffs (called Osisi and usually sourced from Benin artists) among the Ezechime classifies as parts of the wider Edo kingdom’s aesthetics. However, you don’t get this kind of nuance in scholarship that promotes an ethnic agenda in interpretations of indigenous African cultures.
As for the artworks shown in the Quai Branly exhibition, their history is by now very famous. In February 1897, an elite British force of about 1200 men (supported by several hundred African auxiliary troops and thousands of African porters) besieged Benin City, capital of the Edo Kingdom of Benin, whose ruler, the Oba Ovonramwen sat on a throne that was a thousand years old. The British Punitive Expedition used Maxim machine guns to mow down most of the Oba’s 130,000 soldiers and secure control of the capital city. They set fire to the city and looted the palace of 500 years worth of bronze objects that constituted the royal archive of Benin’s history, an irreplaceable national treasure. The king and his principal chiefs fled into the countryside, pursued by British forces who lay waste to the countryside as a strategy to force the people of Benin to give up their fugitive king. According to Richard Gott, for a further six months, a small British force harried the countryside in search of the Oba and his chiefs who had fled. Cattle was seized and villages destroyed. Not until August was the Oba cornered and brought back to his ruined city. An immense throng was assembled to witness the ritual humiliation that the British imposed on their subject peoples. The Oba was required to kneel down in front of the British military "resident" the town and to literally bite the dust. Supported by two chiefs, the king made obeisance three times, rubbing his forehead on the ground three times. He was told that he had been deposed. Oba Ovonramwen finally surrendered to stem the slaughter of his people. Many of his soldiers considered his surrender an unbearable catastrophe and committed suicide rather than see the king humiliated. A significant number, led by some chiefs, maintained guerilla warfare against the British for almost two years until their leaders were captured and executed. The remaining arms of the resistance thereafter gave up their arms and merged back into the general population.
I need to do a systematic analysis of the Quai Branly’s Benin exhibition, not as an academic evaluation but as a way of examining how the tangled skeins of Benin history impacted my own life as an individual. In that regard, bear in mind the above brief account of Oba Ovonramwen’s ouster. My grandfather—James Anyasibuokwuenu Ogbechie, son of Ugbaja, grandson of Iyeyi the Dreaded, herself a daughter of an Edo-Benin father—was in the Benin of Oba Ovonramwen when the British invaded Benin in 1897. Families lost parents, wives and children in the invasion and until his death in 1986, when I asked him about what happened in Benin on that day, he said “Uwa Kpu Epku” (the world turned upside down). The order of things was surely inverted when a God-King is defeated in battle, his palace burnt and looted, over one hundred thousand of his people killed, he is forced to kiss the ground in submission before British troops and have the local British resident place his foot on the royal head before being sent into exile. The king’s ouster disrupted the entire region of Edo control and its local economy collapsed. My grandfather lost everything. However he worked hard, married another wife and was just getting back on his feet when simultaneous tragedies struck. The British colonial government amalgamated their protectorates to create Nigeria in 1914. They subsequently did away with local money and introduced the British currency, thereby destroying the indigenous economy and wiping out local forms of wealth. My grandfather lost everything again and was reduced to penury. He fought against his fate and rebuilt but in 1918 but his new wife and son died in the Influenza epidemic. After a suitable period of mourning, he married my grandmother and they had nine sons many of whom died in various stages of childhood. Of the two surviving sons, one (Sylvester Okafor Ogbechie, whose name I bear) was conscripted into the British colonial auxiliaries during World War II and saw action in Burma. He was killed on his way back to Nigeria after the war. Left with only one son and despondent, my grandfather tried to kill himself. My father intervened and was able to save his life. Thereafter, as the only remaining son on his father, my father—Francis Osenweniwe Ogbechie-- spent the rest of his life working hard to raise the family out of poverty. He literally worked himself to death over the course of six decades but finally managed to rescue the family from penury and provide it with a modicum of the wealth and respect that was lost as a result of British colonization. My grandfather died in 1986 as the oldest man in the Nine Towns of the Ezechime clan. His son did not live nearly as long and passed away in 2006 finally exhausted after a lifetime of battling fate in this age our people call Enu Oyibo, the world brought about by the white incursion.
Ethnic identities are fluid among the Ezechime but this does not mean that individual identities are nebulous. I am Sylvester Okwunodu Uzugbodiuno Ogbechie the Second, Diviner Chieftain and Ozo of Onicha-Ugbo of the Ezechime Clan, son of Osenweniwe the Valiant--the king's cousin, grandson of Anyasibuokwuenu of great perseverance, grandson of Inyaji NwaAgamunye of the devotees of Nnem-Onicha the matriach goddess, descendant of a lineage dating back to the reign in Idu of Ogbuala the Giant (Oba Ozolua, 1483-1504) who laid waste to the riverine plains (Enuani). Last November, I buried my father on the front porch of his house in Onicha-Ugbo with his head pointing towards Idu, the ancestral homeland and watched his spirit cross the great river into the realm of the ancestors (his funeral is documented here: click to page 8). I sang the old songs, performed the ancient funeral rituals, and received emissaries from my cousins and uncles the kings of the Nine Towns who themselves are emissaries of the Idu/Edo kings. I say that UmuEzechime descend from Idu and that no amount of objective scholarship can undermine the strength of Ezechime claim to Benin ancestry.
I have written here at length to explain how British colonization ruined many things for my family and to point out that the kind of dry history of Africa that is common fare in scholarship is very problematic. The history of Benin is the history of its impact in the area of its empire, in the same way as the history of Britain is the history of its imperial ambitions and actions. This history is very complex. It was customary for representatives of the Benin kings to attend important royal functions in the Ezechime clan. It was also customary for all those chiefs in areas subject to the Oba’s rule to salute the royal sword of state at one time or another (pictured far right in this image).
The two swords taken from Oba Ovonramwen are now in Western museum collections. One is in the Pitt Rivers Museum and the other (the main bronze sword) was exhibited at the Quai Branly exhibition. After a lifetime of hearing about the Sword of Ovonramwen, I finally had a chance to see the sword and perform in front of it the traditional salute to Oba-Idu, the king. The sword of the King is the King and it is unlikely a chance to salute the sword would arise again soon. So I stood in front of the sword and gave the royal salute, dropping down on one knee with my hands crossed in front of my chest, palms flat out. With his sword in hand, the Oba dances the steps of the Ododuwa masquerade, a regal move that Don Pedro Obaseki has identified as owing in part to Portuguese dance moves performed in the 17th century court of Edo Kings. I’m sure the general audience witnessing my salute to the sword at the Museum was nonplussed by my action. However, it was important that I performed this obligation even at this distance, several thousand miles away from home.
In this regard, the sword of Ovonramwen does not belong to the Berlin Museum, the British Museum, or the Quai Branly, it belongs to his great grandson, Omo n’Oba n’Edo Uku Akpolokpolo Solomon Igbinoghodua Asiokuoba Akenzua, Erediauwa the First, 38th Oba of the Edo Kingdom of Benin who sits on the throne of his forefathers in a dynasty that dates back to the 12th Century. In time, even the most objective scholarship must confront the crime committed against the Edo Kingdom of Benin as a consequence of British colonization. In the meantime, Ezechime history shows that the story of Benin is very complex and full of nuances that are often overlooked in standard scholarship.
Posted 29th November 2007 by S. Okwunodu Ogbechie
Dr. Dokun Jagun
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 3/18/16, 'Nowa Omoigui' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Subject: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
To: "def...@yahoogroups.com" <def...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, March 18, 2016, 7:04 PM
Story of cities #5: Benin City,
the mighty medieval capital now lost without trace
Story
of cities #5: Benin City, the mighty medieval
its mathematical layout and earthworks longer than the Great
Wall of China, Benin City was one of the best planned cities
in the world when London was a place
...View
on www.theguardian.comPreview
by Yahoo
--
Wall of China, Benin City was one of the best planned cities
in the world when London was a place
...View
on www.theguardian.comPreview
by Yahoo
---
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Nowa Omoigui
Mar 18, 2016, 9:14:54 PM3/18/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com, def...@yahoogroups.com
Dear Mr. Jagun
Thanks for the excerpted scholarly contribution. Clearly, more intellectually honest work needs to be done.
Regards
NAO
________________________________
From: 'A. Jagun' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: "def...@yahoogroups.com" <def...@yahoogroups.com>; africanw...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/513003694.1271684.1458349319644.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.
Thanks for the excerpted scholarly contribution. Clearly, more intellectually honest work needs to be done.
Regards
NAO
________________________________
From: 'A. Jagun' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: "def...@yahoogroups.com" <def...@yahoogroups.com>; africanw...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
'Segun Olude
Mar 18, 2016, 11:29:27 PM3/18/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com
Enlightened after reading this. At least, for opening up other possibilities not once considered in my scholarship.
Thanks for posting.
'Segun
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/513003694.1271684.1458349319644.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.
Thanks for posting.
'Segun
Nowa Omoigui
Mar 19, 2016, 3:19:02 AM3/19/16
to P. Obazee
Dear Phil
Thanks. Much appreciated. That is why I paraphrased my response to Mr. Jagun when he posted it as an "excerpted scholarly contribution", but I ought to have been more clear in crediting the original writer.
Kudos to Professor Sylvester Okwunodu Ogbechie, for his masterful contributions to the field of Art History. We should all be proud of him.
Regards
NAO
________________________________
From: P. Obazee <pob...@yahoo.com>
To: Nowa Omoigui <now...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
Nowa - I believe the author of the piece is Sylvester Okwunodu Ogbechie, who is a Professor of Art History at UC Santa Barbara (www.arthistory.ucsb.edu/faculty/ogbechie.html).
On Friday, March 18, 2016 9:14 PM, "Nowa Omoigui now...@yahoo.com [Edo-Nation]" <Edo-N...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Jagun
Thanks for the excerpted scholarly contribution. Clearly, more intellectually honest work needs to be done.
Regards
NAO
________________________________
From: 'A. Jagun' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: "def...@yahoogroups.com" <def...@yahoogroups.com>; africanw...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
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"And tho' we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are; one equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Ulysses
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Thanks. Much appreciated. That is why I paraphrased my response to Mr. Jagun when he posted it as an "excerpted scholarly contribution", but I ought to have been more clear in crediting the original writer.
Kudos to Professor Sylvester Okwunodu Ogbechie, for his masterful contributions to the field of Art History. We should all be proud of him.
Regards
NAO
________________________________
From: P. Obazee <pob...@yahoo.com>
To: Nowa Omoigui <now...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
Nowa - I believe the author of the piece is Sylvester Okwunodu Ogbechie, who is a Professor of Art History at UC Santa Barbara (www.arthistory.ucsb.edu/faculty/ogbechie.html).
On Friday, March 18, 2016 9:14 PM, "Nowa Omoigui now...@yahoo.com [Edo-Nation]" <Edo-N...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Jagun
Thanks for the excerpted scholarly contribution. Clearly, more intellectually honest work needs to be done.
Regards
NAO
________________________________
From: 'A. Jagun' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: "def...@yahoogroups.com" <def...@yahoogroups.com>; africanw...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 9:01 PM
________________________________
Posted by: Nowa Omoigui <now...@yahoo.com>
________________________________
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (1)
"And tho' we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are; one equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Ulysses
________________________________
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olaka...@aol.com
Mar 19, 2016, 9:09:18 AM3/19/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com, pob...@yahoo.com
NAO:
I agree!
Professor Ogbechie's essay is extremely insightful
Just like most things in Nature, Ethnic identities and their boundaries are not as clear
cut as we have been led to believe.
Bye,
Ola
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Otitigbe Obadiah Oghoerore Alegbe PhD
Mar 19, 2016, 9:58:44 AM3/19/16
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This is what we want. Some people say we must forget our history, that
we shoudl throw away our tradition. This what we do not even need to
debate but research on. I have claimed here that the Igbo up to Onitsha
are form Benin even thought this brother pointed to the opposite
direction he sure confirms that we are kinsfolk. This is how to build an
identity.
Otitigbe
we shoudl throw away our tradition. This what we do not even need to
debate but research on. I have claimed here that the Igbo up to Onitsha
are form Benin even thought this brother pointed to the opposite
direction he sure confirms that we are kinsfolk. This is how to build an
identity.
Otitigbe
Wilson Iguade
Mar 19, 2016, 10:21:23 AM3/19/16
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This is an excellent Thread! Great stuffs to learn. For example, "This might be because the exhibition uses artworks looted from Benin in the 1897 invasion of the kingdom by British soldiers. To shrink down the boundaries of an empire composed of multiethnic identities into this singular ideal of Benin ethnicity does incalculable injury to the history of Benin."
Regards the quote, first point; it is interesting that WE are not pursuing the returns of OUR looted artifacts!
Second point, I agree - BENIN KINGDOM can never be "shrink down".
Stay tuned! Iguade
Sent from my iPhone
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Regards the quote, first point; it is interesting that WE are not pursuing the returns of OUR looted artifacts!
Second point, I agree - BENIN KINGDOM can never be "shrink down".
Stay tuned! Iguade
Sent from my iPhone
gukaegbu
Mar 19, 2016, 11:51:00 AM3/19/16
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I liked the article too. Very illuminating. And by the way, whatever happened to Festac Face? Wasn't that a Benin art work which is held by the British? Does anyone know the story?
*ezekwe*
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Nowa Omoigui
Mar 19, 2016, 12:45:33 PM3/19/16
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The original mask of Idia is still in the possession of the British, despite numerous requests, since the seventies. A replica was created in Benin by carvers, and used during the festival. In fact numerous replicas (in wood, ivory and animal bone e.g. the hard palate) have since been created by many artists and traders. They can be found being marketed in front of various hotels in Nigeria, as well as some airport gift shops.
NAO
________________________________
From: gukaegbu <guka...@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
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NAO
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Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
Rex Marinus
Mar 19, 2016, 2:15:45 PM3/19/16
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Dr. Kassim:
Ethnic identity is not very fluid. One chooses - otherwise, we would all have disappeared into all kinds of "hybridized" cells. Nowa for instance is an Edo Muslim convert. Syl Ogbechie, my friend, is a "hybrid" Idu/Igbo artist and intellectual, with whom some of us have debated this position. Each of these individuals must be at liberty and free to define themselves as they choose. There are many in Onicha-Ugbo, Ogbechie's ancestral home, who would tell him, in this current position, to "go and eat shit!" and tell him actually also, that it is the other way round: the Idu are just a branch of the Igbo, and what we know today as the Benin Empire began to decline from the 15th century, just before the coming of the Portuguese, particularly after the civil war in which Eze Chima, an Aro-Igbo, attempted to overthrow the monarchy, establish a republican order, and was defeated. He led his group backwards. Some of those he led back towards Ala-Igbo were very assimilated Igbo, who were "hybrid," some were ethnically of the Idu clan, but most were of the Aro and Abam stock, many of whom were soldiers/fighters against Ozolua's fighters. Many of these would later turn their skills towards the slave trade as mercenaries with their early cntact with the Portuguese.
Syl has conflated a lot of history here, with the 14th c Eze Chima movement and the late 19th c, defeat of Ovoranwen by the British. His name - and that is the most fundamental marker of identity and identification in Africa especially - carries the story of his lineage, and it is not Idu, much as he would wish to claim this. Call a man by his proper name, and you will immediately find his roots. All the names Ogbechie names intergenerationally in his family, going to the 4th generation, does not bear any sign of Edo identity. They all signify Igbo. There is thus a mystery which has never been solved: how come, in all these, Igbo language, its meanings, and its rituals dominate every aspect of the life of the clans we call "Umu Eze Chime/ Chima"? Why did the Idu language not survive and dominate, if indeed, they are Idu? How did Ogbechie's ancestors come to bear Igbo names as markers of their identity? The Igbo are not known for colonial movements, and have never imposed their language on any people. How come there are a vaster range of speakers of that language from the boundaries of Orhiowhon upwards? Until that is clearly and productively explained, it might be useful to take Ogbechie's "royalist" revisionism with a grain of salt!
Obi Nwakanma
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Nowa Omoigui
Mar 19, 2016, 2:38:23 PM3/19/16
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Mr. Obi Nwakanma
Your capacity for falsehood is truly sickening. You just sit down and manufacture strange stories.
Since when did Nowa become an "Edo Muslim convert"?
Your psychological problems are very deep, which is why one generally ignores you. So should everyone else
NAO
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Your capacity for falsehood is truly sickening. You just sit down and manufacture strange stories.
Since when did Nowa become an "Edo Muslim convert"?
Your psychological problems are very deep, which is why one generally ignores you. So should everyone else
NAO
________________________________
From: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>
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Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 2:15 PM
okoiad...@gmail.com
Mar 19, 2016, 2:47:28 PM3/19/16
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Professor Obi, it is wrong to use somebody 'name as the premise to locate a person's ethnicity!
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
| From: Rex Marinus Sent: Saturday, 19 March 2016 19:15 To: pob...@yahoo.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; Igbo Events; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com Reply To: africanw...@googlegroups.com |
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Joe Attueyi
Mar 19, 2016, 2:57:12 PM3/19/16
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Rex
A few years ago I went to visit my friend Emerhor Ortega at home. Emerhor is from Evwreni in Ughelli. I met him in his living room with two young fellows. He was blessing the kola nut in the same traditional manner any Igbo elder would. I was shocked. After the young men left I raised the point with Emerhor that he just did an Igbo traditional blessing of kola nut. His answer was even more of a shock. He said they are Igbos who migrated westwards.
That left me in a daze because I made a lot of friends from Ukwuani area now Delta state at Uni-- one of whom is Tony Ishiekwene who is hereabouts --because of my best friend the late Clem Ojie was from that neck of the woods. Even those whose native names were Chukwuemeka and Ikechukwu would swear that they are not Igbos. I spent a weekend with Clem at Umutu. No difference in all particulars with my village Utuh.
I think the civil war and its aftermath left a huge scar upon some folks. They need understanding. After I read how Nowa's dad escaped being killed during the pogrom by proving he was not Igbo I can better relate to Nowa's reactions to these issues. And more importantly that of my friends from Ukwuani. Like you said ' Each of these individuals must be at liberty and free to define themselves as they choose'
Joe
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Joe
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Rex Marinus
Mar 19, 2016, 2:59:46 PM3/19/16
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Nowa, of what value is it to me that you "ignore me?" or that you pay attention to me? I should tell you: I do not ignore you, because I understand you and your motivations very, very well. It is easy to throw names and tantrums. But here's what I urge you to do, be mature sometimes, and do not use this kiddies playground's tactics for goodness sake. So, you ignore me? Big deal! As for your being "a Muslim convert." I'm sorry, I always thought you were. My bad. I did not think there's anything wrong with that. I was speaking merely about the individual's right to define themselves. But now that I know you're not a Muslim or a convert to Islam, as I had wrongly assumed, I'm better informed. I shall take note of this.
Obi Nwakanma
________________________________________
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Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 6:38 PM
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Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace - Nwakanma fiction
Rex Marinus
Mar 19, 2016, 3:03:58 PM3/19/16
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Barrister Okoi, but why do we NAME? Onomastics are means of identification.
Obi Nwakanma
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Rex Marinus
Mar 19, 2016, 3:05:51 PM3/19/16
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The Egbema people across the river in Delta state are the same Egbema people in Imo and Anambra and Rivers state. They are the "Oru Igbo." I salute you, dianyi.
Obi Nwakanma
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Mar 19, 2016, 3:15:23 PM3/19/16
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1 Chief, PDP accused APC of master minding the arrest of kenneth kobani and beating up of Roseline Konya. Pls, your reaction
....(2)... Victor, why should we mastermind the arrest of Kobani? What is his political relevance? Does his position as SSG place him above the law? Are we the one that asked him to be lawless that warranted his arrest?
Look, we are orderly and decent group that wants the best for Rivers State. Rt. Hon. Amaechi who is a Minister of FRN was directed by the DIG to vote and leave to his residence and he complied then who is Kobani to be moving around intimidating voters in polling units that he does not belong to?
Maybe very soon they will accuse us of planting the N40M, Arms, Police and Army Uniforms in the car of the SA to Gov Wike on special Projects that led to his arrest. Look at the embarrassment and national shame that Wike and PDP brought to the State fr the few months they hold sway.
Today we are looked upon as barbarians that behead and burn fellow human beings as if they are goats.
PDP said that they want election! They have had the election and should accept their fates and face the wrath of the law for bn a lawless society
Regs.
Chf. Eze C
....(2)... Victor, why should we mastermind the arrest of Kobani? What is his political relevance? Does his position as SSG place him above the law? Are we the one that asked him to be lawless that warranted his arrest?
Look, we are orderly and decent group that wants the best for Rivers State. Rt. Hon. Amaechi who is a Minister of FRN was directed by the DIG to vote and leave to his residence and he complied then who is Kobani to be moving around intimidating voters in polling units that he does not belong to?
Maybe very soon they will accuse us of planting the N40M, Arms, Police and Army Uniforms in the car of the SA to Gov Wike on special Projects that led to his arrest. Look at the embarrassment and national shame that Wike and PDP brought to the State fr the few months they hold sway.
Today we are looked upon as barbarians that behead and burn fellow human beings as if they are goats.
PDP said that they want election! They have had the election and should accept their fates and face the wrath of the law for bn a lawless society
Regs.
Chf. Eze C
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
From: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>
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Nowa Omoigui
Mar 19, 2016, 3:16:08 PM3/19/16
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Joe
Just stick to verifiable facts, not invented propaganda. The rest of us are not stupid.
NAO
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Just stick to verifiable facts, not invented propaganda. The rest of us are not stupid.
NAO
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 19, 2016, 4:00:31 PM3/19/16
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Quote
A replica [Festac Face] was created in Benin by carvers, and used during the festival. In fact numerous replicas (in wood, ivory and animal bone e.g. the hard palate) have since been created by many artists and traders.
Unquote
Yep! You can almost find one of it in a 9ja home in the diaspora. Iguade
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A replica [Festac Face] was created in Benin by carvers, and used during the festival. In fact numerous replicas (in wood, ivory and animal bone e.g. the hard palate) have since been created by many artists and traders.
Unquote
Yep! You can almost find one of it in a 9ja home in the diaspora. Iguade
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 19, 2016, 4:18:07 PM3/19/16
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Nowa, is this how your talk to your "Uncle Joe"? Do you have no manners in addressing your "UNCLE" as in "Uncle Joe"?
You are one strange dude, you call someone "Under Joe", then you talk to this individual, the individual you called your "Uncle" like so "Just stick to verifiable facts, not invented propaganda."
Honestly, I agree with you that any individual should "just stick to verifiable facts, not invented propaganda". However, and this is where I make BOLD to say that you hedge in your boldness to call your "Uncle Joe" a liar, as intended by your statement cited.
Dude! It's not hard, if your junior, Joe Attueyi, is a liar, call him a LIAR instead of scarily talk like "Just stick to verifiable facts, not invented propaganda.". Hehehehe!
Stay tuned! Iguade ("pray for me")
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 19, 2016, 4:27:34 PM3/19/16
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Quote
Response: Really! Hehehe!
Rastafarian Dude (Rex Marinus / Obi Nwakanma) naw go gree o!
Lord have mercy! Iguade ("pray for me")
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Your psychological problems are very deep, which is why one generally ignores you. So should everyone else
NAO
Unquote
NAO
Response: Really! Hehehe!
Rastafarian Dude (Rex Marinus / Obi Nwakanma) naw go gree o!
Lord have mercy! Iguade ("pray for me")
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 19, 2016, 4:43:07 PM3/19/16
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Quote
I believe the author of the piece is Sylvester Okwunodu Ogbechie, who is a Professor of Art History at UC Santa Barbara
Unquote
Comment: Read and find out the context of above quote. :)
Iguade
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 19, 2016, 4:48:43 PM3/19/16
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Every thing Rastafarian Dude does, is fucking wrong and diminished by his self aggrandizement. My point, Rastafarian Dude, Obi Nwakanma, could have left out the aspect referenced by Okoi, Esq.
But, Rastafarian Dude will be Rastafarian Dude, he can't help himself.
Stay tuned! Iguade
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Otitigbe Obadiah Oghoerore Alegbe PhD
Mar 19, 2016, 4:53:03 PM3/19/16
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They have just drawn the map of Biafra.
Otitigbe.
Otitigbe.
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 19, 2016, 5:02:11 PM3/19/16
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Okay, my name is: Black Eagle. First name "Black". Last Name "Eagle".
So, tell us how does your fucked up "Onomastics" IDENTITY me by name: BLACK EAGLE.
Rastafarian Dude (Rex Marinus / Obi Nwakanma), my name is Black Eagle, please demonstrate validity to your statement "Onomastics are means of identification."
Once more, my name is "Black Eagle" how have you used Onomastics to identify me??? PLEASE ADVISE!
Stay tuned! Iguade
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Otitigbe Obadiah Oghoerore Alegbe PhD
Mar 19, 2016, 5:04:29 PM3/19/16
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Becareful when you say he blessed kola-. There are some Pastors here
who would hate you for writing that.
Otitigbe.
El 19/03/2016 a las 16:05, Rex Marinus
escribió:
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Ayo Ojutalayo
Mar 19, 2016, 5:08:17 PM3/19/16
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Obi,
Yes Nowa deserved the apology. There is only one meaning to "Nowa for instance is an Edo Muslim convert". Nowa is right to feel offended that you authoritatively claim he is what he is not.
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gukaegbu
Mar 19, 2016, 5:35:17 PM3/19/16
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This Ayo Ojutalayo needs extreme psychiatric help. This man can never see a situation where 2 people have a minor disagreement without jumping in to make it worse, instead of letting the situation play out on its own. Now he has appointed himself the role of deciding when an apology is deserved, but refuses to do so when he himself knowingly accuses another person of what they have not done. A very interesting character indeed.
*ezekwe*
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Adeniran Adeboye
Mar 19, 2016, 6:05:27 PM3/19/16
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Dear Dr. Jagun,
Many thanks for posting this piece. It shows how much work there is to do in re-establishing ourselves as peoples with an illustrious past whose destinies had been interrupted but hopefully not irredeemably truncated.
The practice of divide and conquer was found as a ready tool by the European and Arab imperialists. It has obviously been exacerbated by the politics of oneupmanship since the 1940s. It is now the responsibility of the 21st century African to soberly reach back and help create a worthy continuation of our interrupted progression. It would require diligent research, sober analyses, and responsible projections. Can we do all this? Yes, we can. Think Obama.
Cheers,
Adeniran Adeboye
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gukaegbu
Mar 19, 2016, 6:11:33 PM3/19/16
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Thanks, Wilson!
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Ayo Ojutalayo
Mar 19, 2016, 6:15:58 PM3/19/16
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"Now he has appointed himself the role of deciding when an apology is deserved...." . . . Gregg Ukaegbu
Gregg,
Ayo Ojutalayo did not decide "when an apology is deserved". Obi had already apologized. And you are guilty of "never see a situation where 2 people have a minor disagreement without jumping in to make it worse, instead of letting the situation play out on its own".
Ayo Ojutalayo
“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
From: gukaegbu <guka...@comcast.net>
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Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 5:35 PM
Subject: RE: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace - Nwakanma fiction
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Afis Deinde
Mar 19, 2016, 7:20:29 PM3/19/16
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"Mr. Obi Nwakanma
Your capacity for falsehood is truly sickening. You just sit down and manufacture strange stories.
Since when did Nowa become an "Edo Muslim convert"?
Your capacity for falsehood is truly sickening. You just sit down and manufacture strange stories.
Since when did Nowa become an "Edo Muslim convert"?
Your psychological problems are very deep, which is why one generally ignores you. So should everyone else"..,..by Nowa.
NAO
That's heartfelt, it's deep!
NAO
That's heartfelt, it's deep!
First time I read Nwakanma, I knew he writes fiction.
Afis
“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 19, 2016, 9:33:57 PM3/19/16
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Hehehe! Ayo has learned well from the GURU, moi!
Lololo! Lord have mercy!
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 19, 2016, 9:40:00 PM3/19/16
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Your are welcome, Greg!
No problem. Iguade
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Ayo Ojutalayo
Mar 20, 2016, 12:06:00 AM3/20/16
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For example, using Goodluck Jonathan to locate his ethnicity!
Ayo Ojutalayo
“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
From: "okoiad...@gmail.com" <okoiad...@gmail.com>
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Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 2:47 PM
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Adeniran Adeboye
Mar 20, 2016, 12:21:23 AM3/20/16
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Bro Ayo,
How about Ahmed Abdulai?
Adeniran Adeboye
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 20, 2016, 12:31:51 AM3/20/16
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Dr. Adeboye,
Yours and Ayo's are excellent examples along with mine, previously posted. Hehehehe!
My point, Rastafarian Dude is filled up with GANJA, hence his imagination that Nowa is a Moslem Convert. Lololo!
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Adeniran Adeboye
Mar 20, 2016, 2:24:09 AM3/20/16
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Bro Wilson,
Yes sir, Nigeria is among the wrongest places to expect the name to determine cultural or ethnic identity. In the earlier part of my life all folks named Obi were Yoruba. Obi was the short form of Obiwumi, Obisesan, Obibunmi etc. Now, we know that Obi Nwakanma is not a Yoruba. Do either of Segun Dawodu or Toyin Adepoju claim Yoruba origin? The late world class journalist,
Abiodun Aloba = Ebenezer Williams, was of Edo origin.
Adeniran Adeboye
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Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla
Mar 20, 2016, 4:40:46 AM3/20/16
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Prof Obi Nwakanma, so are Nigerians who bear such names as 'Musa Ahmed' or Mohammed Tijjani' Arabic!
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Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
|
Barrister Okoi, but why do we NAME? Onomastics are means of identification.
Obi Nwakanma
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Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 6:47 PM
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 20, 2016, 10:11:41 AM3/20/16
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Prof. Adeboye,
Thanks I learned sometime, did not know that Toyin Adepoju is Edo, I thought he was Yoruba. More evidence that Obi's Onomastics is nothing but self aggrandizement and total foolishness.
Thanks for your time. God bless. Iguade
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Rex Marinus
Mar 20, 2016, 10:23:35 AM3/20/16
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All Nigerians bearing these names are culturally Arabic! They identify principally with the religious and cultural mores that define them in large part as Arabic. For instance, the erasure of Hausa cultural identity began with the erasure of its fundamental
or primary spiritual worldview with a worldview that we can fully identify today as Arabic culture by which a majority now identify. I do not k now any Hausa person who bears "Hausa" names. In the same sense, you hear many Nigerians, some of Igbo descent today bearing
names like Valentine James; Peter Thomas, or in the case of the former president, Goodluck Jonathan. Well, these folks do it because they wish to be identified primarily as "Christian," by assuming of course, that these new names mark their specific identity.
It is called de-identification because they no longer agree with the primary or original meaning of their ancestral names. But here is the test: pare those names down to the fourth generation, and the recurrence of particular names will clearly show you exactly
who they are, and of what primary origins. True, down the line, over four generations, they may no longer be Igbo or Ijo or whatever. But ask Goodluck Jonathan to tell you the traditional names of his father and grandfather, and you will know exactly who he
is.
But here is the point: there is no Igbo man who bears the name Adebola Awopetu, or Edidem Nsikak, or Ogaga Eseoghene or Yusuf Tijani. At the worse case, you may have one bear, Ogaga Nwosu, or Victor Nwankwo, or Sylvester Okwunodu Ogbechie, or Yusuf Agu.
There is always something in the middle or at the end that marks you, because frankly, until the last hundred years at least, no Igbo bore the name Sylvester of Peter. Those who bore such names later were Christians, and are no longer primarily Igbo. They
are converts to a worldview instigated by conquest. Any Yoruba or Edo man who bears the name Nwosu Ibeakolam or Oguzie Muozie or Achilefu Nwiga is certainly no longer Yoruba - because those names carry the weight of significant meaning outside the primary
Yoruba or Edo worldview, as indeed would, Okwunodu. And I'd like to see such a Yoruba or Edo man who bears such names. Any Edo born in the last hundred years who goes by the name Okwunodu Ogbechie should certainly be a major source of curiosity. African names
always carried significance. People were never named as mere adornment, they were named to convey symbolic and actual connections to reality. To deny this is to exhibit profound ignorance.
Obi Nwakanma
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afis 'Deinde
Mar 20, 2016, 10:31:18 AM3/20/16
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Obi Nwakanma, na wa for this guy o.
There are people in the North with two Muslim names Abdullahi Usman, and they are Christians.
There are people in the North with two Muslim names Abdullahi Usman, and they are Christians.
To explain simple Naija phenom, this guy wrote a book on it.
And all are bullshiting!
Shikena
Afis
“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.
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Okoi Obono Obla
Mar 20, 2016, 10:34:32 AM3/20/16
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Pastor Joe,are you suggesting that before the Civil War there was no Idu, Ukuwani ,Ughelli etc? . Agabi is a very popular name among the Bekwarra people of Ogoja,Cross River State . I recently found that Agabi is also a popular name among the Wamba people of Nassarawa State ! However I want to say that there is some interrelatedness among all the ethnicities in Nigeria despite the fact the elites would want us believe that these ethnicities are markedly different and separate . I believe the areas that make up Nigeria was a huge melting pot of people and this may have being responsible for the ethnic hybridity Professor Ogbechie suggested in his essay .
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okoiad...@gmail.com
Mar 20, 2016, 12:50:03 PM3/20/16
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Professor Obi Nwakanma, I vehemently disagree with your proposition that because Hausa people bear Arabic names they are " culturally Arabic "! I therefore disagree with your premise that anybody that bears an Igbo name is ethnologically Igbo! So what of Yoruba people that bear Arabic names, are they culturally Arabic? Hausa people are not the only Africans that bear Arabic names!
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Mar 20, 2016, 1:33:45 PM3/20/16
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Okoi, cut this "Professor Nwakanma" BS. But to the point: there are various ways people identify themselves: one is biological identity. The other is genealogical identity. The other is religious/spiritual identity, all of them part of cultural identity. We name people to identify them. There are various other markers of identification and self-definition: one is scarification. You can never mistake an Ogbomosho mark with an Ijebu scar on the face. Hausa culture does not exist any more. It is fundamentally Arabic culture. Or let me say, that Hausa culture now currently exists only as a palimpsest of a dominant Arabic culture that has overwhelmingly absorbed it. Soon, Igbo culture, with only under two hundred years of Christianization may also be wiped out and will exist only underneath, if it exists at all, a dominant culture. But if you trace all these cultures beneath you will find signs of the original. That is Sylvester's claim. That there are signs of Idu origins in his identity, and I say, that may be so. But I wish to know how come four generations on, the only thing one sees are names signifying Igbo identity, right to the very origins of his patrilineage. Even so, each person has a right to choose how they identify. But if you consciously seek to answer an Igbo first name and last name, and say you're not Igbo, you'd need to visit Dr. Kalunta at his Psychiatric clinic either in Aba or in Heaven, or wherever Dr. Kalunta currently resides. Any Edo man who bears the name: Chukwuemeka Asimole, and says he's not Igbo, should basically suggest to me whose name he is bearing. Period. By the way, any Igbo man who comes to an Igbo meeting bearing the name, Oluwatoyin Fadipe, will attract a few clearing of the throats, and some pointed questions. And someone is bound to ask this fellow, "dianyi, I biara okwukwu, k'ibiara ohi nkita?" You go figure.
Obi Nwakanma
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 20, 2016, 1:46:29 PM3/20/16
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Atty. Okoi has too much fucking time on his hand to go this path.
Rex (Obi), popularly known as Rastafarian Dude, is a time waster, thus wise people IGNORE him and his rant, as below.
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Ezeana Igirigi Achusim
Mar 20, 2016, 1:48:51 PM3/20/16
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Afis:
I told you that I get angry when I see your name in print. I thought you went golfing? Scared lightening could strike you on the golf course? But you drive. Your car could run off the road into a New Jersey lagoon with you and your loved ones in the car. Or you forget the deities can strike in various ways? A drunk driver can be sent by the deities to end your miseries on earth. I told you that I have never killed anyone in my life. And don't ever intend to. But many like you have gone to yonder with my name on their lips as they drew the last breath. I was never there in the rooms. But eyewitnesses spilled the beans after the suckers were buried. You will be like them. Ka omee etua. Ihaaaa.
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And I am
Ezeana Igirigi Achusim
Odi-Isaa
Nwa Dim Orioha AkA Onyeukwu
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Joe Attueyi
Mar 20, 2016, 3:38:27 PM3/20/16
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Okoi
Mine was actually making the point you also made
"However I want to say that there is some interrelatedness among all the ethnicities in Nigeria despite the fact the elites would want us believe that these ethnicities are markedly different and separate
My only additional point is that given the pre and post effects of the civil war one can understand why my Ukwuani friends will deny their apparent Igboness
Joe
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Okoi:
What is the meaning of Agabi in Bekwarri and Wamba? I bet if the language of both areas are not related, the names will have different meaning.
Vin Cool Breeze
On Mar 20, 2016 10:34 AM, Okoi Obono Obla <okoiad...@gmail.com> wrote:
Pastor Joe,are you suggesting that before the Civil War there was no Idu, Ukuwani ,Ughelli etc? . Agabi is a very popular name among the Bekwarra people of Ogoja,Cross River State . I recently found that Agabi is also a popular name among the Wamba people of Nassarawa State ! However I want to say that there is some interrelatedness among all the ethnicities in Nigeria despite the fact the elites would want us believe that these ethnicities are markedly different and separate . I believe the areas that make up Nigeria was a huge melting pot of people and this may have being responsible for the ethnic hybridity Professor Ogbechie suggested in his essay .
On 19 Mar 2016 8:15 pm, "'Nowa Omoigui' via AfricanWorldForum" <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Joe
Just stick to verifiable facts, not invented propaganda. The rest of us are not stupid.
NAO
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Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
Rex
A few years ago I went to visit my friend Emerhor Ortega at home. Emerhor is from Evwreni in Ughelli. I met him in his living room with two young fellows. He was blessing the kola nut in the same traditional manner any Igbo elder would. I was shocked. After the young men left I raised the point with Emerhor that he just did an Igbo traditional blessing of kola nut. His answer was even more of a shock. He said they are Igbos who migrated westwards.
That left me in a daze because I made a lot of friends from Ukwuani area now Delta state at Uni-- one of whom is Tony Ishiekwene who is hereabouts --because of my best friend the late Clem Ojie was from that neck of the woods. Even those whose native names were Chukwuemeka and Ikechukwu would swear that they are not Igbos. I spent a weekend with Clem at Umutu. No difference in all particulars with my village Utuh.
I think the civil war and its aftermath left a huge scar upon some folks. They need understanding. After I read how Nowa's dad escaped being killed during the pogrom by proving he was not Igbo I can better relate to Nowa's reactions to these issues. And more importantly that of my friends from Ukwuani. Like you said ' Each of these individuals must be at liberty and free to define themselves as they choose'
Joe
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On 19 Mar 2016, at 6:15 PM, Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dr. Kassim:
Ethnic identity is not very fluid. One chooses - otherwise, we would all have disappeared into all kinds of "hybridized" cells. Nowa for instance is an Edo Muslim convert. Syl Ogbechie, my friend, is a "hybrid" Idu/Igbo artist and intellectual, with whom some of us have debated this position. Each of these individuals must be at liberty and free to define themselves as they choose. There are many in Onicha-Ugbo, Ogbechie's ancestral home, who would tell him, in this current position, to "go and eat shit!" and tell him actually also, that it is the other way round: the Idu are just a branch of the Igbo, and what we know today as the Benin Empire began to decline from the 15th century, just before the coming of the Portuguese, particularly after the civil war in which Eze Chima, an Aro-Igbo, attempted to overthrow the monarchy, establish a republican order, and was defeated. He led his group backwards. Some of those h
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Ola Kassim
Mar 20, 2016, 6:57:45 PM3/20/16
to Vin Otuonye, develop-nigeria, africanworldforum, Nigerian, Ra'ayi, Naija, okonkwonetworks, Esan, Wilson, pobazee, igboworldforum, Igbo
Vin:
The name does not necessarily always
make, define or identify any given individual regarding his or her ethnic identity or religious faith.
Segun Dawodu is Edo not Yoruba;
Toyin Adepoju's origins if I remember correctly is from Akoko-Edo, Ondo state. Akoko-Edo, just like the Okitipupa environs straddle the boundary between Yorubaland proper and Edo state. Even though Toyin Adepoju chooses as his right to proudly proclaim that he is not Yoruba,
I have not read anywhere that he has proclaimed himself as being of Edo origin.
Wilson Iguade identifies himself as Esan, not Edo. He is only Edo only to the extent that the Esan people were probably once subjects of the Oba of Benin and along with the Itshekri, the Bini and the rest of the ethnicities were once parts of the historical Benin Empire along with Onitsha and other neighbouring areas of Igboland and some parts of Yorubaland. If my high school history lessons were accurate, the Binis are the only original Edo.
As the erudite historian Prof Akintide once outlined in one of his scholarly essays the ruling houses in Ondo state, including the Olowo of Owo, the Deji of Akure and the Osemawe of Ondo are more intricately, in both genealogical and cultural terms more related to the Oba of Benin than they are to the Oni of Ife,
Awujale of Ijebuland, Alake of Egbaland, the Oba of Lagos and many other first class monarchs in Yorubaland, notwithstanding some common distant historical origins.
The majority of the. people of Ilorin in Kwara state are a hybrid of the Yoruba and Fulani. Each one of these families and individual citizens freely chooses which part of their lineage to emphasize at any point in time.
The same is true of most of the people's from Kogi state.
Mallam Bala Mohammed, the immediate former Minister of the. FCT
is a devout Christian, not a Muslim as his name might imply.
Yakubu as in Yakubu Gowon is an Arabic name most common amongst the Hausa and the Fulani. Gen Gowon is Tiv, not Hausa or Fulani and he is a Christian not a Moslem.
Another more distant example in this regard is Prince Charles, the first in line to the British throne who identifies himself as an English man, even though half of his DNA is from his father who is a scion of the Greek royal lineage.
Frankly, I believe that we Africans are too obsessed with our ethnic identities
to the extent that we miss the picture
most of the time.
This obsession is partly responsible for
the lack of progress in Africa relative to the rest of the world.
There are ten times more distinct languages per 1,000,000 sq. mm than in Europe and other parts of the developed world, not necessarily because this was the way our Almighty God divined things to be but rather because of the isolationist tendencies and the historical adherence to 'primitive' clannish behaviours amongst Africans.
Africans of common origin, whose ancient ancestors developed different languages that would eventually become unintelligible to their former acquaintances and distant relations that they had separated from to live in new environments-- probably in villages and hamlets separated by just few kilometres from their former homes, whose residents are now considered as enemies and aliens - eventually proclaim themselves to be of a distinct ethnic group from the original ethnicity their ancestors migrated from.
Human existence on earth is never static both in space and times. New cultures evolve from admixture of different old cultures.
Ethnic and religious identities are fluid and are neither static nor cast in stone.
If they were, Africans would not have welcome western and middle eastern cultural and religious practices into our
regions of the world.
The hijab just like the western style suits, shirts and trousers are foreign modes of dressing that have been imported into Africa. In another 100 to 200 years it might difficult to argue otherwise.
How many Japanese women now wear the Kimono as a daily attire and how many still worship daily at Shinto shrines?
Change, including good, bad and neutral ones is the only constant in life!
Adapt and you , your offsprings and future generations will live long. Failure to adapt and adopt positive change whilst discarding negative and unproductive habits will spell doom for those who deny the need for change.
Tribalism us a negative attribute that we Africans must abandon.
If ethnic identities were static there would no single Ikwerre man or woman arguing about his Igbo origins!
My point is that we (as in all humanity) are all related to one another - the only difference is in the degrees of relativity which stretch far backwards to the day the first pair of Homo sapiens set foot on this planet as far backwards as approx. 170, 000 years ago.
Bye,
Ola
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Dr. Adeboye:
Well you said in the earlier part of your life you said all people with the name Obi are Yoruba. That is understandable because you're young and you're not exposed to other culture. We all know that Toyin Vincent Adepoju is not Yoruba; that Wilson Iguade doesn't know so makes no difference. However, I thought Adepoju is from Kogi.
Names and language remains the best way to determine cultural/ethnic identity, whether some people want to accept it or not. Iguade is Edo and not Igbo or Hausa name. Is it?
Vin Cool Breeze
On Mar 20, 2016 10:11 AM, Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Prof. Adeboye,Thanks I learned sometime, did not know that Toyin Adepoju is Edo, I thought he was Yoruba. More evidence that Obi's Onomastics is nothing but self aggrandizement and total foolishness.Thanks for your time. God bless. Iguade
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Bro Wilson,Yes sir, Nigeria is among the wrongest places to expect the name to determine cultural or ethnic identity. In the earlier part of my life all folks named Obi were Yoruba. Obi was the short form of Obiwumi, Obisesan, Obibunmi etc. Now, we know that Obi Nwakanma is not a Yoruba. Do either of Segun Dawodu or Toyin Adepoju claim Yoruba origin? The late world class journalist,Abiodun Aloba = Ebenezer Williams, was of Edo origin.
Adeniran Adeboye
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Dr. Adeboye,Yours and Ayo's are excellent examples along with mine, previously posted. Hehehehe!
My point, Rastafarian Dude is filled up with GANJA, hence his imagination that Nowa is a Moslem Convert. Lololo!
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Bro Ayo,How about Ahmed Abdulai?
Adeniran Adeboye
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On Mar 20, 2016, at 12:02 AM, 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
For example, using Goodluck Jonathan to locate his ethnicity!Ayo Ojutalayo
“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 20, 2016, 8:45:44 PM3/20/16
to Ola Kassim, Vin Otuonye, develop-nigeria, africanworldforum, Nigerian, Ra'ayi, Naija, okonkwonetworks, Esan, pobazee, igboworldforum, Igbo
Dr. Kassim, I agree with yours below, except when you said "Wilson Iguade identifies himself as Esan, not Edo."
Let me be absolutely clear, I am Edo 100%, I am Edo yesterday, today, and tomorrow, period!
Edo is not limited to Benin, which is what you may have indicated in error. Benin and Esan are equal in Edo land. It is like saying, you, Dr. Kassim is not "Yoruba" even though there are different extracts of Yoruba, right?
Please o! I will not accept nor tolerate being denied my identity as EDO, Esan extract. Full stop. :)
Wilson Iguade, born Edo and will die Edo. Period!
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Rex Marinus
Mar 20, 2016, 9:22:54 PM3/20/16
to Vin Otuonye, Ola Kassim, develop-nigeria, africanworldforum, Nigerian, Ra'ayi, Naija, Esan, Wilson, pobazee, igboworldforum, Igbo
Dr. Kassim, Onitsha was never part of the Benin Empire! This is a great fiction that folks keep perpetuating in this forum. The settlement of Onitsha in the 17th century was not a result of any power exerted by the Benin powers, it was in fact to the contrary. Those opposed to the Empire settled in various formations in Onitsha. Onitsha identifies as Umu Eze Chima. They have rituals that memorialize their time in and their flight from Idu. In various waves, these returnees settled in their many clusters along the various routes, and owed no loyalty to the Kingdom of Benin. Many fought and defeated Benin military expeditions. I think it is important to read historians like Ohadike, Afigbo, Obaro Ikime, and of course the father of modern Nigeran history, Kenneth Dike to get a sense of these histories. While you read Eghareva, also read Onwuejiogu, particularly for his anthropological studies of these culture areas and their various theatres. It is often presumptous of folks with very little reading habits, particularly on these subjects, to generally make extremely ininformed and sweeping statements about stuff they know very little about. There are settled literature about these histories and narrative, but from the oral as well as material evidence adduced by serious and professional researchers in these fields. It is best to familiarize yourself with these and draw your own discernment based on the data they provide, otherwise seek new evidence o contradict them.
It is also quite ridiculous that we talk about names and identities: Yakubu Gowon is Angas, not Tiv. I think you have mixed it up. In any case, there is clear evidence that he grew up in a cultural environment that had a very dominant Arab influence as a result of the long Islamic conquest of that region. His Christian name Jacob was turned therefore to "Yakubu" in his registration for schools at Barewa college in 1948, and subsequently turned to "Jack" in its anglisized form years later. But his last name, "Gowon" marks him very clearly. True, there are many Northern Christians, among the most famous Ishaya Audu, who bore these Arabic names. Before his own conversion to Christianity, his family were practicing muslims. They had also forgotten their "Hausa" names. The fact is that these names are Middle Eastern, and reflect the large influence of the dominant culture from which they first emerged. Edward Said, an Arab Christian, born in Palestine is a good example of how Arab names can also sometimes become Anglican. He could very easily have chosen, "Waidi Sayeed." But he chose the English equivalent. Toyin Adepoju is Yoruba, and has never claimed anything else. But perhaps it is a thing for those born at the margins of major cultures that they be indeterminate, and indeterminacy may compel them to identify with the dominant culture. But let me say this, perhaps it is an Igbo thing, and I cannot claim to know about other places: among the Igbo, whoever talks about "slippery identity" is either an "ohu," or an "Mbiara mbiara." Those who came to Igbo land and assumed Igbo names have a history of either escaping from the law, seeking refuge, or were brought there as "ohu." And there may be those. The other way to also see it is that those who are born at the crossroad of cultures also FIGHT actually to retain their ancestral identities by PRESERVING themselves through the act of naming. They hold on fiercely to their names so they do not forget. So that, where you have two cultures struggling for space in say Akoko Edo, those with Yoruba or Edo lineage keep their identities by naming themselves according to their Edo or Yoruba ancestry. There is often no conflict inside their soul, until it becomes either politically or culturally expedient to de-identify. Up in the North, people also name themselves by where they are born, thus Aminu Kano, or Garba Wushishi, etc. And you're absolutely wrong, Dr. Kassim, I'd like to say: it is the same practice, even in Europe: ethnic markers continue to define the ways people name themselves. My Swiss brother-in-law was born in the French speaking part of Switzerland, to an Italian family. He speaks French. He does not speak any word of Italian, but he has Italian names. An Igbo, for instance, who calls himself "Murphy" - and there are such today - either is too ignorant or too troubled to comprehend the implications of the name.
Now, the point I have raised is: when you examine the way Africans historically named their children, they do not do so in another person's language. For example, any day you hear that the Ooni of Ife's name is "Iwedinobi Akobundu" or the Benin Oba's name is "Njoku Muoneke," I'm certain that you'd do a double take. Right? Maybe not. Maybe that time is coming and we all pray to God to heed your prayers, Dr. Ola Kassim.
Obi Nwakanma
From: okonkwo...@googlegroups.com <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of 'Ola Kassim' via OkonkwoNetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 10:57 PM
To: Vin Otuonye
Cc: develop-nigeria; africanworldforum; Nigerian; Ra'ayi; Naija; okonkwonetworks; Esan; Wilson; pobazee; igboworldforum; Igbo
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 10:57 PM
To: Vin Otuonye
Cc: develop-nigeria; africanworldforum; Nigerian; Ra'ayi; Naija; okonkwonetworks; Esan; Wilson; pobazee; igboworldforum; Igbo
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
CJM1
Mar 20, 2016, 9:38:34 PM3/20/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com, Vin Otuonye, develop-nigeria, Nigerian, Ra'ayi, Naija, okonkwonetworks, Esan, Wilson, pobazee, igboworldforum, Igbo
I am not sure if anyone has raised this correction already, but General Yakubu Gowon retired is not Tiv from Benue State. He is from the Angas tribe in Plateau State.
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Ola Kassim
Mar 20, 2016, 9:45:19 PM3/20/16
to Wilson Iguade, Vin Otuonye, develop-nigeria, africanworldforum, Nigerian, Ra'ayi, Naija, okonkwonetworks, Esan, pobazee, igboworldforum, Igbo
Wilson:
I stand corrected!
You have the right to identify yourself as you deem fit in keeping with your own understanding of your ethnological origins.
That'll be okay as long you or any other Esan refrain from claiming part ownership of or lineage to the Bini throne, which most Nigerians including myself rightly or wrongly with the essence of being Edo.:)
I'll check with my buddy JUI whether or not as an indigene of Agenebode he harbours any ambitions in terms of lineage to the Bini throne.:)
Bye,
Bye,
Ola
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Rex Marinus
Mar 20, 2016, 9:45:55 PM3/20/16
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I just did
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Ola Kassim
Mar 20, 2016, 9:51:08 PM3/20/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com, Vin Otuonye, develop-nigeria, Nigerian, Ra'ayi, Naija, Esan, Wilson, pobazee, igboworldforum, Igbo
Dear Obi:
Before being Igbo, Yoruba, Bini, Twi,
Ashanti etc how would our common African ancestors have described themselves -- let's say 50 or 60,000 years ago long before they settled in different regions of West Africa we now consider as our ancestral homes?
Wishing you a great week.
Bye,
Ola
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Ola Kassim
Mar 20, 2016, 9:52:37 PM3/20/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com, Vin Otuonye, develop-nigeria, Nigerian, Ra'ayi, Naija, okonkwonetworks, Esan, Wilson, pobazee, igboworldforum, Igbo
CJM1:
Thanks.
I stand corrected.
Bye,
Ola
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CJM1
Mar 20, 2016, 9:55:40 PM3/20/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com
Great. It's better to get the facts right.
Thanks.
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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From: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>
Date:03/20/2016 20:45 (GMT-06:00)
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
I just did
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Rex Marinus
Mar 20, 2016, 10:16:30 PM3/20/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com, Vin Otuonye, develop-nigeria, Nigerian, Ra'ayi, Naija, Esan, Wilson, pobazee, igboworldforum, Igbo
Dr. Kassim, great question. But I'm afraid, I do not know the answer. However, may I ask you this: why did they begin to identify themselves specifically as Twi, Igbo, Yoruba, Ashanti from that common roots? Were they crazy? I share two beliefs with you: Tiv or Igbo, we are all human beings and none is more deserving of life than the other. Secondly, we also have great beauty and great flaws inhabiting us all in various measure. The beauty we bring to the world is its variety. I wish you the best of the week too.
Obi Nwakanma
From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of 'Ola Kassim' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:50 AM
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Vin Otuonye; develop-nigeria; Nigerian; Ra'ayi; Naija; Esan; Wilson; pobazee; igboworldforum; Igbo
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:50 AM
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Vin Otuonye; develop-nigeria; Nigerian; Ra'ayi; Naija; Esan; Wilson; pobazee; igboworldforum; Igbo
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/C4103ED2-1B9A-47CB-88A5-42D5082918B2%40aol.com.
Rex Marinus
Mar 20, 2016, 11:10:58 PM3/20/16
to Vin Otuonye, africanworld, develop-nigeria, igboworldforum, Nigerian, pobazee, Ra'ayi, Naija, Esan, Igbo
Nwanna, to each according to their faith. All I can say is, I do not know.
Obi Nwakanma
From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:30 AM
To: Rex; africanworld
Cc: develop-nigeria; igboworldforum; Nigerian; pobazee; Ra'ayi; Naija; Esan; Wilson; Igbo
Subject: Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 2:30 AM
To: Rex; africanworld
Cc: develop-nigeria; igboworldforum; Nigerian; pobazee; Ra'ayi; Naija; Esan; Wilson; Igbo
Subject: Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
Prof. Nwakanma:
If we believe in the Bible, perhaps the story of the Tower of Babel holds the answer to Dr. Kassim's question.
Vin Cool Breeze
Wilson Iguade
Mar 21, 2016, 7:22:59 AM3/21/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com, Vin Otuonye, develop-nigeria, Nigerian, Ra'ayi, Naija, okonkwonetworks, Esan, pobazee, igboworldforum, Igbo
Dr. Kassim,
You said "You have the right to identify yourself as you deem fit in keeping with your own understanding of your ethnological origins."
This remark clearly indicates you still do not get it. It is not what I want, as in I have a right to identity myself in whatever way - IT IS WHO I AM!
I shall move forward because there are certain things that are not up for debate, but up for education. Your education on this topic of EDO NATION as demonstrated forthwith by you is faulty on your own understanding on "ethnological origins."
Stay tuned! By the way, JUI is a bonafide EDO. Period! I can say such with no unreserved term, because I know he is, full stop. Iguade
Sent from my iPhone
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olaka...@aol.com
Mar 21, 2016, 11:33:45 AM3/21/16
to igu...@hotmail.com, africanw...@googlegroups.com, vincent...@msn.com, develop...@googlegroups.com, NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com, Raay...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, okonkwo...@googlegroups.com, esan_co...@yahoogroups.com, pob...@yahoo.com, igbowor...@yahoogroups.com, igboe...@yahoogroups.com
"This remark clearly indicates you still do not get it. It is not what I want,
as in I have a right to identity myself in whatever way - IT IS WHO I AM!--Wilson Iguade
Wilson:
We are saying the same thing!
You have stated who you are--an Edo of Esan, subethnic
ancestral origin. I accept you as you are.
No other human being including myself has the right to question who
you believe you are.
However, notwithstanding this inherent righ and the associated bodily autonomy
t, we might start raising our noses
if you ever start suggesting, for example that the Wilson in your name is in honor of an ancestral
Scottish or English great great grandfather or uncle in your ancestral family
tree whom you are named after:):)
To each his own!
What's in a name? Mike Wallace of CBS once managed to obtain an official Nigerian Passport
without needing to go through the Naturalization process. He paid only $100.00 USD to obtain
a Nigerian Passport.
That was the crux of my message.
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----
From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
To: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>; develop-nigeria <develop...@googlegroups.com>; Nigerian <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; Naija <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; okonkwonetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>; Esan <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>; pobazee <pob...@yahoo.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; Igbo <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 21, 2016 7:22 am
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
To: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>; develop-nigeria <develop...@googlegroups.com>; Nigerian <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; Naija <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; okonkwonetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>; Esan <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>; pobazee <pob...@yahoo.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; Igbo <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 21, 2016 7:22 am
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
Leye Ige
Mar 21, 2016, 3:59:01 PM3/21/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com, Vin Otuonye, develop-nigeria, Nigerian, Ra'ayi, Naija, Esan, Wilson, pobazee, igboworldforum, Igbo, omo oodua
"Before being Igbo, Yoruba, Bini, Twi,Ashanti etc how would our common African ancestors have described themselves -- let's say 50 or 60,000 years ago long before they settled in different regions of West Africa we now consider as our ancestral homes?"--Dr.Ola Kassim
They would describe themselves according to the conditions of the specific "AGE" in history. Different ages have different specificities which more or less determine the descriptions, such that "50 or 60,000 years ago" would comprise pre and ancient history all the way down to classical antiquity which will inform on how "we now consider our ancestral homes".
Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
Cc: "Vin Otuonye" <vincent...@msn.com>, "develop-nigeria" <develop...@googlegroups.com>, "Nigerian" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Ra'ayi" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "Naija" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "Esan" <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>, "Wilson" <igu...@hotmail.com>, "pobazee" <pob...@yahoo.com>, "igboworldforum" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "Igbo" <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 20, 2016, 9:50 PM
Dear
Obi:
Before being
Igbo, Yoruba, Bini, Twi,Ashanti etc how would
igboworldforum; Igbo
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum]
Benin City - Lost without trace
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/HK2PR0601MB150859CF4EEBB9177736EECDDF8E0%40HK2PR0601MB1508.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com.
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They would describe themselves according to the conditions of the specific "AGE" in history. Different ages have different specificities which more or less determine the descriptions, such that "50 or 60,000 years ago" would comprise pre and ancient history all the way down to classical antiquity which will inform on how "we now consider our ancestral homes".
Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 3/20/16, 'Ola Kassim' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
Cc: "Vin Otuonye" <vincent...@msn.com>, "develop-nigeria" <develop...@googlegroups.com>, "Nigerian" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Ra'ayi" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "Naija" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "Esan" <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>, "Wilson" <igu...@hotmail.com>, "pobazee" <pob...@yahoo.com>, "igboworldforum" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "Igbo" <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 20, 2016, 9:50 PM
Dear
Obi:
Before being
Igbo, Yoruba, Bini, Twi,Ashanti etc how would
our common African ancestors have described themselves
-- let's say 50 or 60,000 years ago long before
they settled in different regions of West Africa we now
consider as our ancestral homes?
Wishing you
a great week.
-- let's say 50 or 60,000 years ago long before
they settled in different regions of West Africa we now
consider as our ancestral homes?
Wishing you
a great week.
Bye,
Ola
Sent from my iPhone
Ola
Sent from my iPhone
From: okonkwo...@googlegroups.com
<okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>
on behalf of 'Ola Kassim' via OkonkwoNetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 10:57 PM
To: Vin Otuonye
Cc: develop-nigeria; africanworldforum; Nigerian;
Ra'ayi; Naija; okonkwonetworks; Esan; Wilson; pobazee;
<okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>
on behalf of 'Ola Kassim' via OkonkwoNetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 10:57 PM
To: Vin Otuonye
Cc: develop-nigeria; africanworldforum; Nigerian;
igboworldforum; Igbo
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum]
Benin City - Lost without trace
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olaka...@aol.com
Mar 21, 2016, 4:37:04 PM3/21/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com, vincent...@msn.com, develop...@googlegroups.com, NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com, Raay...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, esan_co...@yahoogroups.com, igu...@hotmail.com, pob...@yahoo.com, igbowor...@yahoogroups.com, igboe...@yahoogroups.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com
Leye:
Good try, but just like those talking head GOP
pundits on CNN and other Cable Networks,
you did not answer my question. This could be
either a deliberate dodge or just an attempt to throw
up your arms--considering the 'oral nature' of most
human, not necessarily African history does not equip
us with enough knowledge for this kind of exercise.
Most likely our ancestors 50 or 60,000 years ago would not
have 'differentiated' or broken up to form as many as hundreds
and thousands of the major
and minority ethnic groups that we currently have in all African
countries. Our ancestors would have come from just a handful
of major original ethnic groups from, whom we derive
not only our genes but all of our distinct ethno-cultural identities
and customary practices.
Thus, it is quite possible that so far back into history--there were no
Igbo, Yoruba, Ga, Twi, Edo, Hausa, Kanuri, Igala etc. and other distinct ethnic
groups we currently identify with. In other words--it is quite possible that
our ancient ancestors might not have reached where we currently call our ancestral
homes today--on their journeys northwards and westwards from East Africa or even
form the distinct ethnic groups such as Igbo, Yoruba etc.
In the beginning--all Africanswere all of one stock, (one ethnic group--or tribe)--just as all
human beings have now been proven to arise from one stock,
Subsequent differential migrations of distinct groups and subgroups from
the original core group might be the explanation for the plethora of ethnicities
we have not only in African but in all regions of the world.
It is also quite possible the same process of ethno-genesis is still ongoing--and that
this could explain why we have the Ikwerre-Igbo and other intra and inter-ethnic controversies.
The Ikwerre might be an ethnic group that is in the process of being 'born', wanting to be free and dissociated
from its original main ethnic group-the Igbo from which it sprung.
The same process is going on in other regions of Nigeria, throughout Africa and in fact
one might say throughout the world.
The premise: What's all the fuss about our over-pre-occupation with ethnic identities--considering
we are all of common origin(s)?
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----
From: 'Leye Ige' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
From: 'Leye Ige' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/80818877.2133352.1458590326059.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.
olaka...@aol.com
Mar 21, 2016, 6:23:32 PM3/21/16
to vincent...@msn.com, africanw...@googlegroups.com, develop...@googlegroups.com, igboe...@yahoogroups.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com, igbowor...@yahoogroups.com, NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com, pob...@yahoo.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, esan_co...@yahoogroups.com, Raay...@yahoogroups.com, igu...@hotmail.com
Vin:
The idea you are disputing is already a settled matter
(at least in general terms) in the fields of natural and applied science ranging from
linguistic studies to archeology .
All human languages are related to one another.
Making sense of the minutiae and details of these connections
is what keeps experts in the field of Linguistic Studies busy.
According to one theory, all of the 5,000 to 6,000 languages
spoken in the world today probably arose from one language
first spoken in Africa about 150,000 years ago..
No doubt you must have had about Latin languages which include Latin, Italian
French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian and a host of others all derived from
one mother language Latin.
___cambridge_education___cambridge_university_press_samples.pdf
***please also see excerpt pasted below from the above link about the similarities
between the latin languages.
Some others have claimed that Sanskrit is the 'mother' of all the languages spoken
in all modern Indo-European countries inclusive of English, French, Spanish, Italian,
Hindu, Sinhalese, Tamil and other languages spoken
in India, Sri Lanka and throughout this region of the world.
The Old Testament story about the Tower of Babel is nothing
more than a Jewish folklore--that reflects the best understanding
of ancient Jews about how the Almighty God created so many races of human
beings who speak so many different languages some of which appear related while
others do not. The same goes for the account of creation in the Garden of Eden.
The Almighty God would not have needed 6 days to create the universe and considering
he is the Almighty God He/She/It would not have needed to rest on the seventh day (Sabbath).
About 85% of all the languages spoken in sub-Saharan Africa (inclusive of Igbo, Yoruba, Edo and most
languages spoken in other West African and Central African countries belong to the Niger-Congo branch of
the world's language family tree.
Closer to home, there are so many similarities between many of the words in common use in
Igbo and Yoruba languages that could have not other plausible explanation other that
the two languages are related or that at one time in our history there was a close co-mingling
of the Igbo and the Yoruba and probably many other ethnic groups in southern Nigeria--at one time
'in our common ancient history.
Those who still insist that the Yoruba and or the Igbo have always existed where we cakk their ancestral homes
today are denying the reality of human history.
Denying such history is like denying the reality of the Theory of Evolution or the claims about human impact on
climate change. That we do not fully understand all they entail does not mean that these claims are not true!
Bye,
Ola
The Romance (Latin) languages
Latin became the language of educated people in the western
countries of the Roman Empire. In the countries where the
Romans had been longest, their language grew deep roots.
The languages used today in Spain, Italy, France, Portugal and
Romania are directly descended from Latin. You can see how
Latin has influenced these languages by looking at the words
for the numbers 1–10.
Latin Italian Spanish French Portuguese Romanian
1 unus uno uno un um unu
2 duo due dos deux dois doi
3 tres tre tres trois tres trei
4 quattuor quattro cuatro quatre quarto patru
5 quinque cinque cinco cinq cinco cinci
6 sex sei seis six seis s, ase
7 septem sette siete sept sete s, apte
8 octo otto ocho huit oito opt
9 novem nove nueve neuf nove noua˘
10 decem dieci diez dix dez zece
• Imagine that you belong to a sports team playing for ancient Rome.
(You can choose the sport, but remember that none of the scores
may be above ten.) Challenge three modern countries from the list
above to play against you, and give the scores in the native language
of each team. Yours, of course, will always be in Latin. Text these
scores – or simply show them – to a friend and ask your friend to
put them into English.
• Look at these words for ‘five’: cinque (Italian), cinq (French), fünf
(German), five (English), cinco (Spanish), fern (Danish). Which of
them do not come from Latin?
• What is the reason for the names of our last four months?
We call Italian, Spanish, French, Portuguese and Romanian
‘Romance’ languages because they were originally spoken by
the Romans. The word romance also has other meanings
which developed over time in three stages:
---- Original Message ----
From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
To: Ola <olaka...@aol.com>; africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: develop-nigeria <develop...@googlegroups.com>; igboevents <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; pobazee <pob...@yahoo.com>; NaijaPolitics <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; esan_community <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 21, 2016 5:12 pm
Subject: Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
To: Ola <olaka...@aol.com>; africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: develop-nigeria <develop...@googlegroups.com>; igboevents <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; pobazee <pob...@yahoo.com>; NaijaPolitics <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; esan_community <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 21, 2016 5:12 pm
Subject: Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
Dr. Kassim:
If originally all Africans were of one stock, how come the languages doesn't show it. If we are all one before, believe me, there's got to be some trace in the languages. Just as we started this discussion: names and language remains the most important identifier of anyone.
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
Leye Ige
Mar 21, 2016, 6:48:03 PM3/21/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com, vincent...@msn.com, develop...@googlegroups.com, NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com, Raay...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, esan_co...@yahoogroups.com, igu...@hotmail.com, pob...@yahoo.com, igbowor...@yahoogroups.com, igboe...@yahoogroups.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com
Dr. Kassim,
You may want to check these out:
(1) http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2011/genoprojecthumanmigrationmap_print.jpg
(2) http://phys.org/news/2011-11-genographic-humans-migrated-africa-arabia.html
(3) http://phys.org/news/2008-04-early-human-populations-evolved-years.html#nRlv
Thank you.
Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 3/21/16, olakassimmd via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: vincent...@msn.com, develop...@googlegroups.com, NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com, Raay...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, esan_co...@yahoogroups.com, igu...@hotmail.com, pob...@yahoo.com, igbowor...@yahoogroups.com, igboe...@yahoogroups.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 21, 2016, 4:36 PM
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/1539ae4f6ef-2637-8cef%40webprd-m63.mail.aol.com.
You may want to check these out:
(1) http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2011/genoprojecthumanmigrationmap_print.jpg
(2) http://phys.org/news/2011-11-genographic-humans-migrated-africa-arabia.html
(3) http://phys.org/news/2008-04-early-human-populations-evolved-years.html#nRlv
Thank you.
Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 3/21/16, olakassimmd via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: vincent...@msn.com, develop...@googlegroups.com, NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com, Raay...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, esan_co...@yahoogroups.com, igu...@hotmail.com, pob...@yahoo.com, igbowor...@yahoogroups.com, igboe...@yahoogroups.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 21, 2016, 4:36 PM
olaka...@aol.com
Mar 21, 2016, 7:06:20 PM3/21/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com, vincent...@msn.com, develop...@googlegroups.com, NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com, Raay...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, esan_co...@yahoogroups.com, igu...@hotmail.com, pob...@yahoo.com, igbowor...@yahoogroups.com, igboe...@yahoogroups.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com
Leye:
Thanks for sharing the links.
I will ass them to my collection on this
subject.
Even though the pictorials in the first and second
links showed the journey of our Yoruba ancestors
to our current location from Arabia, most other southern
Nigerian not to mention the northern Nigerian ethnic
groups probably followed the same or similar routes.
The trans-Saharan migration of the Yoruba
from the Sudan-Middle east region was mentioned in
Basil Davidson's "History of West Africa" which was one the history textbooks
we used in High School. The theory also seems to validate the claim
by His Royal Highness Sikiru Adetona, the Awujale of Ijebu Ode that the Ijebu, if not all Yoruba
arose from the same region of the world.
Further mitochondrial DNA studies might also prove
or disprove the theory by some Igbo that the Igbo also have recent ancestral
relationships to the Jews of Middle East.
If this is true the Igbo might have followed the same
or similar trans-Saharan route on their way from the original
land of Israel.
Bye,
Ola
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/605516768.2202289.1458600466467.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.
Chika Onyeani
Mar 21, 2016, 7:15:21 PM3/21/16
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maxim...@yahoo.com
Mar 21, 2016, 7:16:49 PM3/21/16
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" ... just like those talking head GOP pundits on CNN and other Cable Networks, ... "
They have lost their heads ...
They have only one orifice left, and it is in their perineum; what comes out of there is what we see and hear, and maybe smell too.
It promises to be quite a polluted voting atmosphere. Air fresheners, deodorants and masks may not work quite that well.
The roller coaster is about to go on the slide phase. Hold tight.
Those who have ears ...
O.E.
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Chika Onyeani
Mar 21, 2016, 7:17:55 PM3/21/16
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olaka...@aol.com
Mar 21, 2016, 7:34:24 PM3/21/16
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OE:
I have just read the article by Pat Buchanam shared by Dipo Eniola
earlier today --before reading yours.
I had the same reaction!
Nonetheless, Democrats should never take Donald Trump for granted.
The Dems need to get out the votes--especially those of the young generation
--the Bernie Sanders crowd-- to ensure victory.
There are a lot of angry white voters out there in the USA--including those
who are Democrats and Independents.
Hillary Clinton must work harder to earn their votes!
I have been watching the series--:"The Race to the White House."
Just like in the past, dirty tricks are still possible. If hanging chads in Florida could
win the elections for GW Bush, anything can happen especially in the southern
USA.
Bye,
Ola
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maxim...@yahoo.com
Mar 21, 2016, 9:47:25 PM3/21/16
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"The Dems need to get out the votes ... "
Very true, the Democrats backing Hillary may have the day eventually.
Why?
Donald Trump may succeed, better than Democrats can ever, in scaring Americans to go to the polls, just to make sure they don't face Hitler in America, come January 2017.
The anger is clearly turning to nervousness on all sides now.
The chicken conceived by william f. buckley and incubated by newt gingrich, pat buchanan, richard perl, paul wolfowitz, dick cheney, don rumsfeld, e.t.c. with ralph reed, pat robertson, e.t.c. (otherwise known as the masters of illusion) as the midwives, is finally hatching, and it is frightening to even imagine its ferocious features.
It promises to be the kind of monster that mothers frighten their little children with, to keep them from misbehaving.
Unfortunately, Hilary is an elitist who does not know how to connect with the people. She is very well connected with class theory, oppression on the pages of books (in the imagination), not in the neighborhood, and the old MLKJ pack is not doing her much good either.
Bernie Sanders is of that ( a ti apata dide) cut, but not establishment loyal. He seems to understand that the only loyalty an establishment has is to itself, bar none, and that that self can more often than not, be at cross purposes with the peoples' pains.
America therefore is truly at the crossroads of time, in a place between going back to the 19th century with its, parasitic, gotterdammerung/ragnarok baggage, or moving towards the future beyond the 21st century, with its promise of symbiosis (a salutogenic evolution).
It will definitely not be business as usual.
Those who have ears ...
O.E.
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olaka...@aol.com
Mar 21, 2016, 10:02:24 PM3/21/16
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Unfortunately, Hilary is an elitist who does not know how to connect with the people. She is very well connected with class theory, oppression on the pages of books (in the imagination), not in the neighborhood, and the old MLKJ pack is not doing her much good either.
Bernie Sanders is of that ( a ti apata dide) cut, but not establishment loyal. He seems to understand that the only loyalty an establishment has is to itself, bar none, and that that self can more often than not, be at cross purposes with the peoples' pains.
O.E:
Well stated!
Bernie Sanders has the right message but he is a dreamer; Hillary Clinton has the experience and the ability
to discern what is possible and opposed to what is good but impossible in today's
America but does not endear the passion of the masses especially the youth.
Bernie is too far to the left--enough to scare the average American who has been indoctrinated
for decades about the dangers of communism which they confuse with socialism..
My fear is that Bernie Sanders might succeed in dragging Hilary Clinton too far to the left of Center
when the Center is where she should be--in order to be able to defeat Trump and the Republicans
in Nov. and get things done after she is elected and assume office on Jan.16 2017.
We shall see. I believe there are enough millions of smart and decent American voters of all races,
inclusive of Democrats, Republicans and Independents to derail Trumps ambitions in Nov, 2016.
Bye,
Ola
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Thomas
Mar 21, 2016, 10:06:42 PM3/21/16
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Hillary does not know how to connect with the populace! come D-day, the dems will roll out their heavy artilleries. one is called Bill Clinton; another is called Obama; a third is called Bernie Sanders. into the mix throw in women, Latinos, immigrants and
remnants of Buffalo soldiers... boy is that a brawl!
From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of maxima1757 via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: March 21, 2016 7:44 PM
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Leye Ige
Mar 21, 2016, 10:43:10 PM3/21/16
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"Even though the pictorials in the first and second links showed the journey of our Yoruba ancestors to our current location from Arabia, most other southern Nigerian not to mention the northern Nigerian ethnic groups probably followed the same or similar routes......" Dr.Kassim
Dr.Kassim,
I think you MISREAD the pieces. They DID NOT point to "the journey of our Yoruba ancestors to our current location from Arabia...." BUT THE OTHER WAY ROUND; to wit :
"Evolutionary history shows that human populations likely originated in Africa, and the Genographic Project, the most extensive survey of human population genetic data to date, suggests where they went next. A study by the Project finds that modern humans migrated out of Africa via a southern route through Arabia, rather than a northern route by way of Egypt......."
That indeed, Yorubaland was PART of the STARTING POINT, as shown in the images thus "nullifying" the Saudi Arabia origin "thesis". Or how can one migrate out of somewhere and end up in the same place?
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Dr.Kassim,
I think you MISREAD the pieces. They DID NOT point to "the journey of our Yoruba ancestors to our current location from Arabia...." BUT THE OTHER WAY ROUND; to wit :
"Evolutionary history shows that human populations likely originated in Africa, and the Genographic Project, the most extensive survey of human population genetic data to date, suggests where they went next. A study by the Project finds that modern humans migrated out of Africa via a southern route through Arabia, rather than a northern route by way of Egypt......."
That indeed, Yorubaland was PART of the STARTING POINT, as shown in the images thus "nullifying" the Saudi Arabia origin "thesis". Or how can one migrate out of somewhere and end up in the same place?
Thank you.
Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
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Date: Monday, March 21, 2016, 7:06 PM
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Bye,
Ola
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Ola
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gukaegbu
Mar 21, 2016, 10:54:10 PM3/21/16
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Ola,
Let’s see if you got this:
“Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon.
Listening to the candidates' debate.
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose
Every way you look at things you lose”.
Is that how most people feel about politics?
Co-Coo-Coocho!!!!!!!!!!!
*ezekwe*
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 21, 2016, 11:21:26 PM3/21/16
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Mr. Chairman: Parliamentary Procedure in order. Point of emphasis - "I shall move forward because there are certain things that are not up for debate, ..."
Chairman, I yield the floor. Parliament procedure tabled.
Wilson Iguade.
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Wharfery Snake
Mar 21, 2016, 11:32:39 PM3/21/16
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Prof Adeboye,
Please limit the name gerrymandering within the Bini, Yoruba world. The other day I learnt the word "Oba" was a Bini word that the Yoruba copied hook and sinker after the 1938 meeting of western Nigeria traditional rulers. In that meeting the only one with the title of Oba was the Oba of Benin. I am convinced that the Yoruba language is a derivative of the Bini Language.
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WS - A revered prince of Mushin.
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To: Rex Marinus <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; pob...@yahoo.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; Igbo Events <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
Professor Obi, it is wrong to use somebody 'name as the premise to locate a person's ethnicity!Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
Syl has conflated a lot of history here, with the 14th c Eze Chima movement and the late 19th c, defeat of Ovoranwen by the British. His name - and that is the most fundamental marker of identity and identification in Africa especially - carries the story of his lineage, and it is not Idu, much as he would wish to claim this. Call a man by his proper name, and you will immediately find his roots. All the names Ogbechie names intergenerationally in his family, going to the 4th generation, does not bear any sign of Edo identity. They all signify Igbo. There is thus a mystery which has never been solved: how come, in all these, Igbo language, its meanings, and its rituals dominate every aspect of the life of the clans we call "Umu Eze Chime/ Chima"? Why did the Idu language not survive and dominate, if indeed, they are Idu? How did Ogbechie's ancestors come to bear Igbo names as markers of their identity? The Igbo are not known for colonial movements, and have never imposed their language on any people. How come there are a vaster range of speakers of that language from the boundaries of Orhiowhon upwards? Until that is clearly and productively explained, it might be useful to take Ogbechie's "royalist" revisionism with a grain of salt!Obi Nwakanma
From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of olakassimmd via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 1:09 PM
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; pob...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
NAO:
I agree!
Professor Ogbechie's essay is extremely insightful
Just like most things in Nature, Ethnic identities and their boundaries are not as clearcut as we have been led to believe.
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----
From: 'Nowa Omoigui' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: P. Obazee <pob...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 19, 2016 3:18 am
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
Dear Phil
Thanks. Much appreciated. That is why I paraphrased my response to Mr. Jagun when he posted it as an "excerpted scholarly contribution", but I ought to have been more clear in crediting the original writer.
Kudos to Professor Sylvester Okwunodu Ogbechie, for his masterful contributions to the field of Art History. We should all be proud of him.
Regards
NAO
________________________________
From: P. Obazee <pob...@yahoo.com>
To: Nowa Omoigui <now...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
Nowa - I believe the author of the piece is Sylvester Okwunodu Ogbechie, who is a Professor of Art History at UC Santa Barbara (www.arthistory.ucsb.edu/faculty/ogbechie.html).
On Friday, March 18, 2016 9:14 PM, "Nowa Omoigui now...@yahoo.com [Edo-Nation]" <Edo-N...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Jagun
Thanks for the excerpted scholarly contribution. Clearly, more intellectually honest work needs to be done.
Regards
NAO
________________________________
From: 'A. Jagun' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: "def...@yahoogroups.com" <def...@yahoogroups.com>; africanw...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
The Sword of Oba Ovonramwen
It is now precisely four weeks since I went to the Musee du Quai Branly to see the exhibition of royal art from the Edo Kingdom of Benin (poster illustrated left). I needed that much time to wind down from the complex emotions that resulted from my visit. My people, the Ezechime Clan of mid-Western Nigeria, claim origin from Benin through an ancestral progenitor named Chime. The nine towns that comprise my clan have been subjects of great curiosity but little scholarship because their hybrid ethnicity did not fit into early colonial ethnography's invention of ethnic identities in Nigeria. Ezechime peoples use a dialect of the Igbo language speckled with Edo words but their kingship system is completely based on Edo-Benin templates with all the major Benin royal titles and position represented. When I went to bury my father last November, we spent a long time deliberating on the orientation of his grave because the head of a dead chief must point West towards Idu, as the ancestral homeland of Benin is known among my people. The final rituals of any such funeral are conducted in a remnant form of the Edo language, as are the songs that accompany the dead to the afterlife, even though many no longer know the meanings of the songs. You will however hear Ezechime peoples insist vehemently (using the Igbo language) that they are NOT Igbo and until you learn that they use several non-Igbo languages of ritual and communication, this kind of claim tends to be dismissed as irrelevant. Such dismissal leads to the simplistic analysis often carried out about ethnic identities in Africa where the obvious use of a language is often enough to incorporate a people into an ethnic identity often contrary to their own histories of origin. In any case, ethnographers steered clear of Ezechime Igbo peoples and saw their hybridity as a mark of ethnic impurity. It is only in the past couple of decades that scholarship started to recognize that hybridity is the primary mode of cultural production and the idea of ethnic purity is in fact a blatantly bad idea. Ezechime peoples are the ultimate hybrids and are made up of combinant groups of Igbo, Edo-Benin, Niger Delta, and Yoruba peoples with at least two known lines of descendants of Portuguese sailors who jumped ship at Ughoton and settled inland among the local peoples. Some of these Portuguese sailors were vassals of the Benin kings who were given titles, land and wives among the outlying towns under Edo rule. Traits of this Portuguese line pop up in from time to time in the form of very light skinned, grey-eyed and red-haired children.
It is not immediately apparent that the Benin exhibition considered the above issues. Instead it chose to focus tightly on an ideal of Edo-Benin ethnicity centered on the court of the Oba (kings). This might be because the exhibition uses artworks looted from Benin in the 1897 invasion of the kingdom by British soldiers. To shrink down the boundaries of an empire composed of multiethnic identities into this singular ideal of Benin ethnicity does incalculable injury to the history of Benin. It also produced the kind of problematic analysis that looks at modern Benin sculpture (for instance) solely in relation to ethnic Edo-Benin artists of the 20th Century without considering the impact of an artist like Ben Enwonwu, of the Onitsha-Ezechime, whose reinterpretation of classical Benin sculpture inaugurated a modernist reading of Benin art from 1950 onwards. Surely the use of various forms of Ozo title staffs (called Osisi and usually sourced from Benin artists) among the Ezechime classifies as parts of the wider Edo kingdom’s aesthetics. However, you don’t get this kind of nuance in scholarship that promotes an ethnic agenda in interpretations of indigenous African cultures.
As for the artworks shown in the Quai Branly exhibition, their history is by now very famous. In February 1897, an elite British force of about 1200 men (supported by several hundred African auxiliary troops and thousands of African porters) besieged Benin City, capital of the Edo Kingdom of Benin, whose ruler, the Oba Ovonramwen sat on a throne that was a thousand years old. The British Punitive Expedition used Maxim machine guns to mow down most of the Oba’s 130,000 soldiers and secure control of the capital city. They set fire to the city and looted the palace of 500 years worth of bronze objects that constituted the royal archive of Benin’s history, an irreplaceable national treasure. The king and his principal chiefs fled into the countryside, pursued by British forces who lay waste to the countryside as a strategy to force the people of Benin to give up their fugitive king. According to Richard Gott, for a further six months, a small British force harried the countryside in search of the Oba and his chiefs who had fled. Cattle was seized and villages destroyed. Not until August was the Oba cornered and brought back to his ruined city. An immense throng was assembled to witness the ritual humiliation that the British imposed on their subject peoples. The Oba was required to kneel down in front of the British military "resident" the town and to literally bite the dust. Supported by two chiefs, the king made obeisance three times, rubbing his forehead on the ground three times. He was told that he had been deposed. Oba Ovonramwen finally surrendered to stem the slaughter of his people. Many of his soldiers considered his surrender an unbearable catastrophe and committed suicide rather than see the king humiliated. A significant number, led by some chiefs, maintained guerilla warfare against the British for almost two years until their leaders were captured and executed. The remaining arms of the resistance thereafter gave up their arms and merged back into the general population.
I need to do a systematic analysis of the Quai Branly’s Benin exhibition, not as an academic evaluation but as a way of examining how the tangled skeins of Benin history impacted my own life as an individual. In that regard, bear in mind the above brief account of Oba Ovonramwen’s ouster. My grandfather—James Anyasibuokwuenu Ogbechie, son of Ugbaja, grandson of Iyeyi the Dreaded, herself a daughter of an Edo-Benin father—was in the Benin of Oba Ovonramwen when the British invaded Benin in 1897. Families lost parents, wives and children in the invasion and until his death in 1986, when I asked him about what happened in Benin on that day, he said “Uwa Kpu Epku” (the world turned upside down). The order of things was surely inverted when a God-King is defeated in battle, his palace burnt and looted, over one hundred thousand of his people killed, he is forced to kiss the ground in submission before British troops and have the local British resident place his foot on the royal head before being sent into exile. The king’s ouster disrupted the entire region of Edo control and its local economy collapsed. My grandfather lost everything. However he worked hard, married another wife and was just getting back on his feet when simultaneous tragedies struck. The British colonial government amalgamated their protectorates to create Nigeria in 1914. They subsequently did away with local money and introduced the British currency, thereby destroying the indigenous economy and wiping out local forms of wealth. My grandfather lost everything again and was reduced to penury. He fought against his fate and rebuilt but in 1918 but his new wife and son died in the Influenza epidemic. After a suitable period of mourning, he married my grandmother and they had nine sons many of whom died in various stages of childhood. Of the two surviving sons, one (Sylvester Okafor Ogbechie, whose name I bear) was conscripted into the British colonial auxiliaries during World War II and saw action in Burma. He was killed on his way back to Nigeria after the war. Left with only one son and despondent, my grandfather tried to kill himself. My father intervened and was able to save his life. Thereafter, as the only remaining son on his father, my father—Francis Osenweniwe Ogbechie-- spent the rest of his life working hard to raise the family out of poverty. He literally worked himself to death over the course of six decades but finally managed to rescue the family from penury and provide it with a modicum of the wealth and respect that was lost as a result of British colonization. My grandfather died in 1986 as the oldest man in the Nine Towns of the Ezechime clan. His son did not live nearly as long and passed away in 2006 finally exhausted after a lifetime of battling fate in this age our people call Enu Oyibo, the world brought about by the white incursion.
Ethnic identities are fluid among the Ezechime but this does not mean that individual identities are nebulous. I am Sylvester Okwunodu Uzugbodiuno Ogbechie the Second, Diviner Chieftain and Ozo of Onicha-Ugbo of the Ezechime Clan, son of Osenweniwe the Valiant--the king's cousin, grandson of Anyasibuokwuenu of great perseverance, grandson of Inyaji NwaAgamunye of the devotees of Nnem-Onicha the matriach goddess, descendant of a lineage dating back to the reign in Idu of Ogbuala the Giant (Oba Ozolua, 1483-1504) who laid waste to the riverine plains (Enuani). Last November, I buried my father on the front porch of his house in Onicha-Ugbo with his head pointing towards Idu, the ancestral homeland and watched his spirit cross the great river into the realm of the ancestors (his funeral is documented here: click to page 8). I sang the old songs, performed the ancient funeral rituals, and received emissaries from my cousins and uncles the kings of the Nine Towns who themselves are emissaries of the Idu/Edo kings. I say that UmuEzechime descend from Idu and that no amount of objective scholarship can undermine the strength of Ezechime claim to Benin ancestry.
I have written here at length to explain how British colonization ruined many things for my family and to point out that the kind of dry history of Africa that is common fare in scholarship is very problematic. The history of Benin is the history of its impact in the area of its empire, in the same way as the history of Britain is the history of its imperial ambitions and actions. This history is very complex. It was customary for representatives of the Benin kings to attend important royal functions in the Ezechime clan. It was also customary for all those chiefs in areas subject to the Oba’s rule to salute the royal sword of state at one time or another (pictured far right in this image).
The two swords taken from Oba Ovonramwen are now in Western museum collections. One is in the Pitt Rivers Museum and the other (the main bronze sword) was exhibited at the Quai Branly exhibition. After a lifetime of hearing about the Sword of Ovonramwen, I finally had a chance to see the sword and perform in front of it the traditional salute to Oba-Idu, the king. The sword of the King is the King and it is unlikely a chance to salute the sword would arise again soon. So I stood in front of the sword and gave the royal salute, dropping down on one knee with my hands crossed in front of my chest, palms flat out. With his sword in hand, the Oba dances the steps of the Ododuwa masquerade, a regal move that Don Pedro Obaseki has identified as owing in part to Portuguese dance moves performed in the 17th century court of Edo Kings. I’m sure the general audience witnessing my salute to the sword at the Museum was nonplussed by my action. However, it was important that I performed this obligation even at this distance, several thousand miles away from home.
In this regard, the sword of Ovonramwen does not belong to the Berlin Museum, the British Museum, or the Quai Branly, it belongs to his great grandson, Omo n’Oba n’Edo Uku Akpolokpolo Solomon Igbinoghodua Asiokuoba Akenzua, Erediauwa the First, 38th Oba of the Edo Kingdom of Benin who sits on the throne of his forefathers in a dynasty that dates back to the 12th Century. In time, even the most objective scholarship must confront the crime committed against the Edo Kingdom of Benin as a consequence of British colonization. In the meantime, Ezechime history shows that the story of Benin is very complex and full of nuances that are often overlooked in standard scholarship.
Posted 29th November 2007 by S. Okwunodu Ogbechie
Dr. Dokun Jagun
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 3/18/16, 'Nowa Omoigui' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Subject: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
To: "def...@yahoogroups.com" <def...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, March 18, 2016, 7:04 PM
Story of cities #5: Benin City,
the mighty medieval capital now lost without trace
Story
of cities #5: Benin City, the mighty medieval
capi...With
its mathematical layout and earthworks longer than the Great
Wall of China, Benin City was one of the best planned cities
in the world when London was a place
...View
on www.theguardian.comPreview
by Yahoo
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Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (7) 
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Chika Onyeani
Mar 21, 2016, 11:34:35 PM3/21/16
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Wharfery Snake
Mar 21, 2016, 11:40:14 PM3/21/16
to NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com, africanw...@googlegroups.com, vincent...@msn.com, develop...@googlegroups.com, Raay...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, esan_co...@yahoogroups.com, igu...@hotmail.com, pob...@yahoo.com, igbowor...@yahoogroups.com, igboe...@yahoogroups.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com
Leye,
Olola Kassim has never been known to be the repository of intellectual acumen. Pardon the mental midget.
WS - A revered prince of Mushin.
Messages in this topic (9)
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olaka...@aol.com
Mar 22, 2016, 12:05:05 AM3/22/16
to africanw...@googlegroups.com
Greg:
I think the scenario you ptovided is that of a pessimist!
You can not lose which ever way you chose to vote
unless you are part and parcel of the problem to start
with.
A serious citizen would not base his voting preference solely
on what the candidates say they would do or not do if they are
elected. The voter also looks into their past records.
The final decision is a personal one
made behind the curtains at the voting booth.
Bye,
Ola
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/05e201d183e6%241345e700%2439d1b500%24%40comcast.net.
Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla
Mar 22, 2016, 12:29:17 AM3/22/16
to Rex Marinus
Obi Nwakanma, I vehemently disagree with your categorization of the Angas Ethnic Group as a 'tribe'! Anthropologically and ethnologically even sociologically it is wrong to describe a group that is more than one hundred as a 'tribe'! The derogatory word
'tribe' is what I expect a white racist academia to use not a supposedly Afrocentric scholar like you!
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
|
I just did
From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of 'CJM1' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:38 AM
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; Vin Otuonye
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 1:38 AM
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; Vin Otuonye
Cc: develop-nigeria; Nigerian; Ra'ayi; Naija; okonkwonetworks; Esan; Wilson; pobazee; igboworldforum; Igbo
Subject: Re: [Edo-Nation] Re: [africanworldforum] Benin City - Lost without trace
I am not sure if anyone has raised this correction already, but General Yakubu Gowon retired is not Tiv from Benue State. He is from the Angas tribe in Plateau State.
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------
From: 'Ola Kassim' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Date:03/20/2016 17:57 (GMT-06:00)
To: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
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OkonkwoNetworks..........Building NIGERIA of our DREAM
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olaka...@aol.com
Mar 22, 2016, 12:39:24 AM3/22/16
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Leye:
I'll readily admit that I misread the pictorials during my first take on it,
The National Geographic Report is about the "Out of Africa" Migration
of the Human Race--which began as recently as 40 to 60,000 years
ago.
The Mitochondrial DNA studies confirm the origins of mankind from East
Africa. The report also confirms the original theory that most of the first wave of early
humans migrated southwards from East Africa to the region of South Africa due to cataclysmic events including droughts
that occurred in East Africa between 100 to 130,000 years ago, It is from these locations
in and around South Africa that waves of the early human beings, that had been disconneced from each other for thousands of years began their separate epic journeys northwards
to populate the rest of Africa.
The Out of Africa Migration as I indicated above is a more recent phenomenon--approx, 40 to 60,000
years ago. The fact that the movement out of Africa also had a Yoruba connection does not
necessarily negate the thesis that the ancient ancestors of today's Yoruba initially made their way
to their present location from the region of Sudan at a much earlier time.
The fact that the Yoruba region might have served as point of origin for the earliest migraation of
human beings out of Africa does not necessarily negate the other theory about how our ancestors arrived
at the current location in the first instance.
The DNA theory also does not infer or validate the idea of Ile Ife as the cradle or one of the cradles of mankind.
Let us continue to follow the Science and see where it leads us.
Bye,
Ola
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Rex Marinus
Mar 22, 2016, 4:59:12 AM3/22/16
to Rex Marinus
Ok, the Angas ethnic group. Fair enough.
Obi Nwakanma
From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 4:28 AM
To: Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 4:28 AM
To: Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com
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Rex Marinus
Mar 22, 2016, 5:09:09 AM3/22/16
to Ola Kassim, igu...@hotmail.com, africanworld, NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com, develop...@googlegroups.com, raay...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaNews, pob...@yahoo.com
Vin Nwanna,
May you daughter's name honor and affirm all the gifts she brought with her to life.
Obi Nwakanma
From: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Vin Otuonye vincent...@msn.com [NIgerianWorldForum]
<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 4:36 PM
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Cc: develop...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; NaijaNews; pob...@yahoo.com
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: Benin City - Lost without trace
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 4:36 PM
To: Ola Kassim; igu...@hotmail.com; africanworld
Cc: develop...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; NaijaNews; pob...@yahoo.com
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: Benin City - Lost without trace
Ola:
The Wilson in his name is not in honor of any ancestral Scottish or English great, great grandfather or uncle in his ancestral family tree but in honor of a Western Christian Saint that his father, my father and other African parents have been brainwashed into accepting as the name to baptize their children with.
When my wife and I decided to start a family, one of the things we agreed on was not to name any of our children any Foreign or Western sounding name. And I am not ashamed to say that Prof. Obi Nwakanma helped me choose the name I gave my second daughter. Just before she was born, I wrote him privately and explained the circumstance surrounding her impending birth and asked him to suggest good Igbo names I can choose from. He suggested about three names and I picked one of those names as her first name.
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 11:33:35 -0400
From: okonkwo...@googlegroups.com
To: igu...@hotmail.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com
CC: vincent...@msn.com; develop...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; esan_co...@yahoogroups.com; pob...@yahoo.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com
The Wilson in his name is not in honor of any ancestral Scottish or English great, great grandfather or uncle in his ancestral family tree but in honor of a Western Christian Saint that his father, my father and other African parents have been brainwashed into accepting as the name to baptize their children with.
When my wife and I decided to start a family, one of the things we agreed on was not to name any of our children any Foreign or Western sounding name. And I am not ashamed to say that Prof. Obi Nwakanma helped me choose the name I gave my second daughter. Just before she was born, I wrote him privately and explained the circumstance surrounding her impending birth and asked him to suggest good Igbo names I can choose from. He suggested about three names and I picked one of those names as her first name.
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 11:33:35 -0400
From: okonkwo...@googlegroups.com
To: igu...@hotmail.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com
CC: vincent...@msn.com; develop...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; esan_co...@yahoogroups.com; pob...@yahoo.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com
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afis 'Deinde
Mar 22, 2016, 5:18:12 AM3/22/16
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"When my wife and I decided to start a family, one of the things we agreed on was not to name any of our children any Foreign or Western sounding name. And I am not ashamed to say that Prof. Obi Nwakanma helped me choose the name I gave my second daughter. Just before she was born, I wrote him privately and explained the circumstance surrounding her impending birth and asked him to suggest good Igbo names I can choose from. He suggested about three names and I picked one of those names as her first name.".............Vin Otuonye.
No confirmed.
Vin Otuonye is a lost Igbo.
He can't even find a name by himself as an igbo.
Chei, the boy don tey for lagos before Atlanta.
Chei, the boy don tey for lagos before Atlanta.
Chineke!
Sent from my iPhone
Shikena
Afis
“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/HK2PR0601MB15082109CFE28E8862725E3DDF800%40HK2PR0601MB1508.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com.
Afis Deinde
Mar 22, 2016, 8:05:03 AM3/22/16
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"It is also quite possible the same process of
ethno-genesis is still ongoing--and that
this could explain why we have the Ikwerre-Igbo and other intra and inter-ethnic controversies.
ethno-genesis is still ongoing--and that
this could explain why we have the Ikwerre-Igbo and other intra and inter-ethnic controversies.
The Ikwerre might be an ethnic group that is in the process of being 'born', wanting to be free and dissociated from its original main ethnic group-the Igbo from which it sprung.".......By Dr Kassim.
Afis, The Odada 11 of Ile Ife.....comment: Is Ikwerre a sub-group coming from the buttocks of a greater group called Igbo?
I wonder if Chief Emeka Okala read this.
This gon' be all night, hehehehehehehehe!
Shikena
Afis
“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.
Sent from my iPhone
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Chukwuemeka Okala
Mar 22, 2016, 8:36:20 AM3/22/16
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"It is also quite possible the same process of
ethno-genesis is still ongoing--and that
this could explain why we have the Ikwerre-Igbo and other intra and inter-ethnic controversies.
The Ikwerre might be an ethnic group that is in the process of being 'born', wanting to be free and dissociated from its original main ethnic group-the Igbo from which it sprung.".......By Dr Kassim.
ethno-genesis is still ongoing--and that
this could explain why we have the Ikwerre-Igbo and other intra and inter-ethnic controversies.
The Ikwerre might be an ethnic group that is in the process of being 'born', wanting to be free and dissociated from its original main ethnic group-the Igbo from which it sprung.".......By Dr Kassim.
Comment:
Dr. Ola Kasim,
Did the above excerpt actually come from you or a mischievous one out there wrote it an signed off with your name?
I want to hear from you first-hand before making my commentary.
Looking forward to your response,
Emeka Reuben Okala
Dikne Ognu 1 of Ikwerreland
London, UK
"Faith [Religion] and reason are not necessarily opposed. But when reason won't take you another step, faith keeps on going because it connects you to God."
Ezeana Igirigi Achusim
Mar 22, 2016, 8:44:06 AM3/22/16
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Afis:
For a person facing imminent ghoulish calamities to be among the living is your last hurrah I guess? Epilepsy. Diabetes and cancers are prepackaged and are being delivered to you as we speak. Enjoy them. Ka omee etua. I pray. Ihaaaa. Amen. Amin.
Sent from my iPhone
And I am
Ezeana Igirigi Achusim
Odi-Isaa
Nwa Dim Orioha AkA Onyeukwu
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A. Jagun
Mar 22, 2016, 8:51:01 AM3/22/16
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Dr Kasim:
Please add to Prince Charles ancestry the British Black Queen Charlotte, born in 1744, wife of George III; herself
the eighth child of Prince of Mirow, Charles Louis Frederick. She was descended directly from an African branch of the Portuguese Royal House. She married George III at the age of seventeen and have about thirteen children. Queen Elizabeth II is the direct descendant of Queen Charlotte, so do not be surprised if Kate Middleton gives birth to a black child. . . the black gene may resurface anytime, any moment.
Dr. Dokun Jagun
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:39 PM
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Wilson Iguade
Mar 22, 2016, 9:04:30 AM3/22/16
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Emeka,
It came from Dr. Kassim, please proceed with your "commentary". Iguade
Sent from my iPhone
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olaka...@aol.com
Mar 22, 2016, 9:41:14 AM3/22/16
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Rev Okala:
There is nothing mischievous about that comment
especially if you consider my favored perspective
on the relationships between all or most Nigerian ethnic
groups and in fact all Africans and all human beings.
The only difference is the degree of relativity from one ethnic
group to the other. For example, the Ikwerre is much closer to the Igbo
than either 'ethnic' or sub ethnic group is to Edo, Yoruba, igala or Kanuri.
Yet we are still all related!
No ethnic group in Nigeria--nay the world is an island
by itself. New (in anthropological terms) ethnicities emerge from
existing ones over thousands of years--just as the languages
they speak and their cultural habits. Neither the Yoruba, the Igbo nor the Ikwerre sudden;y
dropped from the sky into the geographical areas of the world
we find them today. All human beings came from somewhereelse--the cradle of mankind!
We must set ethnic sentiments aside when we discuss these
issues. There are too many similarities between the Ikwerre
and the Igbo that makes it difficult to suggest that one is totally distinct
from the other.
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----
From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
To: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
To: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
olaka...@aol.com
Mar 22, 2016, 9:51:27 AM3/22/16
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Dokun:
Thanks for the info!
I agree that anything can happen.
Our Almighty God could divine
that a black Prince or Princess might end up
one day--probably long after we have departed
this realm ---ascend to the throne of the House of Windsor
and become the King or Queen of England.
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----
From: 'A. Jagun' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: vincentotuonye <vincent...@msn.com>; develop-nigeria <develop...@googlegroups.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaPolitics <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; esan_community <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>; iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>; pobazee <pob...@yahoo.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; igboevents <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2016 8:50 am
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
From: 'A. Jagun' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: vincentotuonye <vincent...@msn.com>; develop-nigeria <develop...@googlegroups.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaPolitics <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; esan_community <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>; iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>; pobazee <pob...@yahoo.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; igboevents <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2016 8:50 am
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
Dr Kasim:
s
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ishola williams
Mar 22, 2016, 10:01:28 AM3/22/16
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DR DJ,Please give me a reference to confirm your story about the Queen Charlotte.
The story in Wikipaedia even talked about possible "BERBER" much more than her Sub-Saharan Africa Ancestry.
With so many generations passed, the possibility of a Mullato baby from her non-confirmed descendants(PM Cameron of UK) is impossible.
Ishola Williams
Maj-Gen. (Rtd)
Exec Sec
PANAFSTRAG
Lagos
E-mail: isholaw...@yahoo.com
website: www.panafstrag.org
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Afis Deinde
Mar 22, 2016, 10:29:37 AM3/22/16
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Chief Emeka Okala, who's the "mischievous one"?
Hehehehehehehehe!
It is getting harder to do Nigerians favors, I was just following the teachings in the bible nah.
My Chief, you can scroll down the page now, it's konkonbelow. There maybe a word or two added, to illustrate, but Dr Kassim owns it.
The full post:
Ola".....Unquote.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Afis
“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.
Asagwara, Ken (EAL)
Mar 22, 2016, 10:35:26 AM3/22/16
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Nwanna Pastor Emeka Reuben Okala:
It is not my intention to go through the worn out and unnecessary argument of Ikwerre is Igbo and Ikwerre is not Igbo again. Still, may you know that your vehement denials of that which is obvious by genealogical and anthropological records, that is that, Ikwerre is a sub-set and a variant of the Igbo language, most others of Nigerian’s ethnic nationalities see Ikwerre origin in the light that Dr. Ola Kassim stated. Your dogged fight against that which is obvious changes not the fact of Ikwerre origin as a sub-set of its larger and umbrella ethnic nationality, the Igbo. Period.
Now bro, you can come out swinging all you like it makes no difference. What you are doing is like an Ondo person because of dialectical differences from other Yorubas assert they are not Yoruba. I hope that I have not spoilt your day because I know how much this nonsensical argument of Ikwerre is Igbo and Ikwerre is not Igbo riles you up and unwinds you like a coiled wire. That not minding, you know you are always my good friend.
Cheers.
Mazi KC Prince Asagwara
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Afis Deinde
Mar 22, 2016, 10:35:46 AM3/22/16
to olaka...@aol.com, igu...@hotmail.com, africanw...@googlegroups.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com, naijap...@yahoogroups.com, talkn...@yahoogroups.com, egbe...@yahoogroups.com, vincent...@msn.com, develop...@googlegroups.com, NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com, Raay...@yahoogroups.com, esan_co...@yahoogroups.com, pob...@yahoo.com, igbowor...@yahoogroups.com, igboe...@yahoogroups.com
"We must set ethnic sentiments aside when we discuss these issues. There are too many similarities between the Ikwerre
and the Igbo that makes it difficult to suggest that one is totally distinct
from the other.".......Dr Kassim.
Every Igbo here knows that the Ikwerre people are NOT Igbos.
So why is Dr Kassim searching for trouble?This is nothing but "Challenge bus stop" in Ibadan periphery!
Hahahahahahaha!
Shikena
Sent from my iPhone
Afis
“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.
olaka...@aol.com
Mar 22, 2016, 11:01:47 AM3/22/16
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Correction:
Please note the correction in BOLD:
For example, the Ikwerre is much closer to the Igbo
than either 'ethnic' or sub ethnic group is to Edo, Yoruba, Igala (not ''igala") or Kanuri.Yet we are still all related!--Ola Kassim
I have a keyboard deficiency that usually ends up with an 'i' (lower case) showing up
when I intend to type an upper case 'I".
A few years ago I received a polite complaint from one of our prominent Nigerians of Igala origin
querying why I wrote Igala in lower case whilst my other examples of Nigerian ethnic groups
were in upper case.
I promised never to repeat the mistake again.
But I just did. My apologies to anyone offended by this
unintended error.
DIPO ENIOLA
Mar 22, 2016, 11:13:48 AM3/22/16
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Wharf The Snake of Orlu:
Come on, Wharf. Olola Kassim is
by no means a mental or intellectual midget. Stop allowing your differences
with an individual to cloud your judgment. Olola Kassim is a smart and
intellectually viable Medical Doctor. He is one knowledgeable serious man. He
deserves your respect.
The Oha 1
Ahu Nze, Ebie Okwu
From: "Wharfery Snake wharf...@yahoo.com [NIgerianWorldForum]" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: africanw...@googlegroups.com; vincent...@msn.com; develop...@googlegroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; esan_co...@yahoogroups.com; igu...@hotmail.com; pob...@yahoo.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
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olaka...@aol.com
Mar 22, 2016, 11:15:34 AM3/22/16
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Vin:
Obama came to my mind while I was writing the post.
I did not use him as an example because his position
as President of the United States is an elected position,
which is much less cataclysmic or game changing--(at least in our times) than an
Obama or anyone of direct African ancestry becoming the King or Queen
of England.
Even though a British MP of Nigerian origin might sooner or later be elected
as the Prime Minister of Great Britain. I can not foresee one of our own, unless
one born or married into the Royal Windsor family assuming the throne of
the Queen or King of England during my lifetime because this is a hereditary
position.
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----
From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
To: Ola Kassim <olaka...@aol.com>; africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: develop-nigeria <develop...@googlegroups.com>; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; Raay...@yahoogroups.com <raay...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaNews <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; esan_community <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>; iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>; pobazee <pob...@yahoo.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; igboevents <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2016 10:07 am
Subject: RE: Benin City - Lost without trace
From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
To: Ola Kassim <olaka...@aol.com>; africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: develop-nigeria <develop...@googlegroups.com>; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; Raay...@yahoogroups.com <raay...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaNews <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; esan_community <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>; iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>; pobazee <pob...@yahoo.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; igboevents <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2016 10:07 am
Subject: RE: Benin City - Lost without trace
Ola:
Look no further. Obama is starring you in the face. Obama is the son of a Kenyan. The last time I checked, Obama's father is black and an African.
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 09:51:08 -0400
From: olaka...@aol.com
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
CC: vincent...@msn.com; develop...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; esan_co...@yahoogroups.com; igu...@hotmail.com; pob...@yahoo.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com
Look no further. Obama is starring you in the face. Obama is the son of a Kenyan. The last time I checked, Obama's father is black and an African.
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 09:51:08 -0400
From: olaka...@aol.com
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
CC: vincent...@msn.com; develop...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; esan_co...@yahoogroups.com; igu...@hotmail.com; pob...@yahoo.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
Dokun:
Thanks for the info!
I agree that anything can happen.
Our Almighty God could divine
that a black Prince or Princess might end up
one day--probably long after we have departed
this realm ---ascend to the throne of the House of Windsor
and become the King or Queen of England.
Bye,
Ola
---- Original Message ----
From: 'A. Jagun' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: vincentotuonye <vincent...@msn.com>; develop-nigeria <develop...@googlegroups.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaPolitics <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; esan_community <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>; iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>; pobazee <pob...@yahoo.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; igboevents <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>
From: 'A. Jagun' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: vincentotuonye <vincent...@msn.com>; develop-nigeria <develop...@googlegroups.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaPolitics <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; esan_community <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>; iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>; pobazee <pob...@yahoo.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; igboevents <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2016 8:50 am
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Benin City - Lost without trace
Dr Kasim:
s
Please add to Prince Charles ancestry the British Black Queen Charlotte, born in 1744, wife of George III; herself
the eighth child of Prince of Mirow, Charles Louis Frederick. She was descended directly from an African branch of the Portuguese Royal House. She married George III at the age of seventeen and have about thirteen children. Queen Elizabeth II is the direct descendant of Queen Charlotte, so do not be surprised if Kate Middleton gives birth to a black child. . . the black gene may resurface anytime, any moment.
Dr. Dokun Jagun
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Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:39 PM
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Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 10:39 PM
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