A question for the lawyers: The criminally padded budget

[Joe Attueyi]

A question has been bugging me that you may be able to answer : was the criminally padded budget the same that was signed by PMB? If yes, does PMB signing the budget convert the crime into law since the Appropriations Act 2016 is now law of the land? If the crime is now legal shouldn't PMB be answering some questions about whether the criminally padded budget was signed off by him negligently or through criminal connivance?

Here is a picture shared back then of Mr President, his VP and minister of budget reviewing the budget before Mr President signed off

[Wharfery Snake]

Pastor Joe,

There is a way I look at all the shenanigans in Nigeria. I would ask myself if such padding had happened in Washington, D.C.; would the culprits be arrested and tried? The answer is always 'Yes' .

WS - A revered prince of Mushin.

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 6, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Joe Attueyi <topc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> A question has been bugging me that you may be able to answer : was the criminally padded budget the same that was signed by PMB? If yes, does PMB signing the budget convert the crime into law since the Appropriations Act 2016 is now law of the land? If the crime is now legal shouldn't PMB be answering some questions about whether the criminally padded budget was signed off by him negligently or through criminal connivance?
>
> Here is a picture shared back then of Mr President, his VP and minister of budget reviewing the budget before Mr President signed off
>

> <image1.png>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone

[Joe Attueyi]

WS

Which leads to part of my question:

If some members of the House criminally padded the budget and Obama signed it into law, what would the culprits be arrested and tried for?

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

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[Rex Marinus]

The question that is bothering me, dear WS is the meaning of "padding." I've been unable to understand it. Because (a) budgeting is process under legislation that can change according to the rules of legislation, and (b) as the pursekeepers of the nation, the Legislature determines in the end what and where any government should, and can spend money. Sometimes, therefore, what comes originally to the Legislature for debate under the Financial or budget Act, is not always what leaves the chambers. Sometimes approved expenditure changes. "Padding" does happen in the US Congress. It is called "Pork." This is when powerful legislators and committee chairs push a little more money towards their own constituency interests, through negotiation with the president's office in the Ways and Means Committee. It is often give and take: you support a pet project in my constituency or in the lobby that I support by adding a little more money to a particular budget item, and naming it, and I support same for you. This is what happens in the legislature everywhere in the world. If this was the "padding" that took place, I should really, honestly say, it is all in line with the legislative process. But if the "padding" or the additions took place after the fact: that is after the budget line items have been passed by the legislators, through the committee process, and through the entire HOR, and someone then doctors the passed budget by padding items that were not passed by parliament, that constitutes a criminal violation of the rules of the National Assembly, and such members must be investigated by the Ethics committee and sanctioned under the ethics rule, and depending on the stance of the legislature, passed on to the police for criminal prosecution. But the simple truth is, if the line items were padded unto the original budget during the budget debate, and passed, there is no law broken. The President's budget is a mere proposal, until it becomes actionable through the budget process. And it may change radically through that process. These are the conditions we paid for when we established a democracy and a National Assembly. Many of us still have this hang-up on the military era process that limited the nature of the legislative process. Padding does happen, and that is true of any legislature.

Obi Nwakanma

---

From: 'Wharfery Snake' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2016 1:21 PM
To: Joe Attueyi
Cc: Naija...@googlegroups.com; Politics Naija; African GM; Okonkwonetworks; Yahoo! Inc.; Yahoo! Inc.; Ra'ayi Riga; Yahoo! Inc.; Yahoo! Inc.; niger...@yahoogroups.com; Yahoo! Inc.; Abba; olaka...@aol.com; Agbor Ike; rot...@yahoo.com; nebuka...@aol.com; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD; vincent...@msn.com; therealsegun
Subject: Re: A question for the lawyers: The criminally padded budget

 

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[DIPO ENIOLA]

The so-called padding a budget may be the equivalent of of US' pork barrel which is NOT an offense. But if they tried to implement a project not in the signed budget, that is another issue altogether. Vin Pretty Boy Otuonye, are you writing from a beauty saloon? Cheers. The Oha1 Ahu Nze Ebie Okwu Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Aug 6, 2016, 9:44:44 AM, Vin Otuonye wrote: Agwo Nwana: I don't know about that. US Congressmen pads their budget all the time and no one is arrested. Quite honestly, I have not taken time to study whether padding a budget is criminal or not. But Nigeria legislators learnt from abroad albeit different from how they do it abroad. Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: A question for the lawyers: The criminally padded budget From: naija...@googlegroups.com Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 14:34:57 +0100 CC: naija...@googlegroups.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; raay...@yahoogroups.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com; yana...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; abba...@gmail.com; olaka...@aol.com; ikea...@yahoo.com; rot...@yahoo.com; nebuka...@aol.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; vincent...@msn.com; therea...@yahoo.com To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com

WS Which leads to part of my question: If some members of the House criminally padded the budget and Obama signed it into law, what would the culprits be arrested and tried for? Joe Sent from my iPhone On 6 Aug 2016, at 2:21 PM, Wharfery Snake wharf...@yahoo.com [NIgerianWorldForum] <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Pastor Joe, There is a way I look at all the shenanigans in Nigeria. I would ask myself if such padding had happened in Washington, D.C.; would the culprits be arrested and tried? The answer is always 'Yes' . WS - A revered prince of Mushin. Sent from my iPad > On Aug 6, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Joe Attueyi <topc...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > A question has been bugging me that you may be able to answer : was the criminally padded budget the same that was signed by PMB? If yes, does PMB signing the budget convert the crime into law since the Appropriations Act 2016 is now law of the land? If the crime is now legal shouldn't PMB be answering some questions about whether the criminally padded budget was signed off by him negligently or through criminal connivance? > > Here is a picture shared back then of Mr President, his VP and minister of budget reviewing the budget before Mr President signed off > > > > >

> Sent from my iPhone

__._,_.___ Posted by: Wharfery Snake <wharf...@yahoo.com> Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (2) Check out the automatic photo album with 1 photo(s) from this topic. Save time and get your email on the go with the Yahoo Mail app Get the beautifully designed, lighting fast, and easy-to-use Yahoo Mail today. Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage. Visit Your Group • Privacy • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

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[Oke Osisi " Common Sense, Uncommon Knowledge "]

The case of adding "pork" into a budget is not criminal. It is deliberated upon and approved by the entire Congressional body parcipating in the budget deliberation process. Moreover, it is for a good cause, and done in good faith.  Somewhat a privilege that comes with seniority and influence in the Congress.  This is completely and totally different from the criminal conduct knowingly perpetrated by some members of the Nigerian congress. 

In the case of the select individuals in the Nigerian congress involved in padding, the padded budget are solely for their benefits: not for their constituents.  The padded budget are clouded in secrecy. The padded budget are not deliberated on by the entire congressional budget formatting body. That is not the case with "pork" in the US budget.  The budget padding in the Nigerian congress is "criminal" when an individual or set of individuals knowingly and intentionally add a number of ghost employees, goods and services above and beyond the actual number of individuals, goods and services to be procured, knowing such to be inaccurate, illegal and false.  That is called "crime".  In such instance, prosecution is in order.  

Oke Osisi

"Common Sense, Uncommon Knowledge"

Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® 3

-------- Original message --------
From: "Rex Marinus rexma...@hotmail.com [NIgerianWorldForum]" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 08/06/2016 08:43 (GMT-06:00)
To: Joe Attueyi <topc...@yahoo.com>, naija...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Politics Naija <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, African GM <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, Okonkwonetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>, "Yahoo! Inc." <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Yahoo! Inc." <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, Ra'ayi Riga <raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "Yahoo! Inc." <naijao...@yahoogroups.com>, "Yahoo! Inc." <yana...@yahoogroups.com>, niger...@yahoogroups.com, "Yahoo! Inc." <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, Abba <abba...@gmail.com>, olaka...@aol.com, Agbor Ike <ikea...@yahoo.com>, rot...@yahoo.com, nebuka...@aol.com, FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, vincent...@msn.com, therealsegun <therea...@yahoo.com>
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: A question for the lawyers: The criminally padded budget

 

The question that is bothering me, dear WS is the meaning of "padding." I've been unable to understand it. Because (a) budgeting is process under legislation that can change according to the rules of legislation, and (b) as the pursekeepers of the nation, the Legislature determines in the end what and where any government should, and can spend money. Sometimes, therefore, what comes originally to the Legislature for debate under the Financial or budget Act, is not always what leaves the chambers. Sometimes approved expenditure changes. "Padding" does happen in the US Congress. It is called "Pork." This is when powerful legislators and committee chairs push a little more money towards their own constituency interests, through negotiation with the president's office in the Ways and Means Committee. It is often give and take: you support a pet project in my constituency or in the lobby that I support by adding a little more money to a particular budget item, and naming it, and I support same for you. This is what happens in the legislature everywhere in the world. If this was the "padding" that took place, I should really, honestly say, it is all in line with the legislative process. But if the "padding" or the additions took place after the fact: that is after the budget line items have been passed by the legislators, through the committee process, and through the entire HOR, and someone then doctors the passed budget by padding items that were not passed by parliament, that constitutes a criminal violation of the rules of the National Assembly, and such members must be investigated by the Ethics committee and sanctioned under the ethics rule, and depending on the stance of the legislature, passed on to the police for criminal prosecution. But the simple truth is, if the line items were padded unto the original budget during the budget debate, and passed, there is no law broken. The President's budget is a mere proposal, until it becomes actionable through the budget process. And it may change radically through that process. These are the conditions we paid for when we established a democracy and a National Assembly. Many of us still have this hang-up on the military era process that limited the nature of the legislative process. Padding does happen, and that is true of any legislature.

Obi Nwakanma

From: 'Wharfery Snake' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2016 1:21 PM
To: Joe Attueyi
Cc: Naija...@googlegroups.com; Politics Naija; African GM; Okonkwonetworks; Yahoo! Inc.; Yahoo! Inc.; Ra'ayi Riga; Yahoo! Inc.; Yahoo! Inc.; niger...@yahoogroups.com; Yahoo! Inc.; Abba; olaka...@aol.com; Agbor Ike; rot...@yahoo.com; nebuka...@aol.com; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD; vincent...@msn.com; therealsegun

Subject: Re: A question for the lawyers: The criminally padded budget

 

Pastor Joe,

There is a way I look at all the shenanigans in Nigeria. I would ask myself if such padding had happened in Washington, D.C.; would the culprits be arrested and tried? The answer is always 'Yes' .

WS - A revered prince of Mushin.

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 6, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Joe Attueyi <topc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> A question has been bugging me that you may be able to answer : was the criminally padded budget the same that was signed by PMB? If yes, does PMB signing the budget convert the crime into law since the Appropriations Act 2016 is now law of the land? If the crime is now legal shouldn't PMB be answering some questions about whether the criminally padded budget was signed off by him negligently or through criminal connivance?
>
> Here is a picture shared back then of Mr President, his VP and minister of budget reviewing the budget before Mr President signed off
>

> <image1.png>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone

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[rotfash]

Dear Obi,

While I concur with you substantially, however, I demur on some aspects of yours.

The language of the constitution is that: ".... The executive shall prepare the budget and the president shall lay the document before the National assembly."

Let it be said clearly: there are two types of bills:

a, Executive bill - which emanates from the executive arm of govt.

b, Legislative bill - which emotes from the legislature.

The appropriation bill or better known as the budget is an executive bill.

Changes to it can only be effected by the legislature in agreement with the executive.

Granted, the legislature has oversight functions, as enshrined by the Constitution, over the MDAs under the purview of the executive. The legislature is empowered to seek clarification from these MDAs as part of its oversight function. Furthermore, the stated assumptions in the budget are also areas the legislature can look into in ensuring that the nation gets an implementable appropriation act. The Legislature is free to concur or demur on these assumptions, like the benchmark figure, which is the predication of any budget.

Though a practice that has gained roots in Nigeria, the concept of the legislature fixing prices on some dodgy constituency projects is not just illegal but infernally iniquitous. All that the Legislature needs to do is inform the Executive on areas of needed emphasis; the final allocation of funds to various projects or line items remains the prerogative of the Executive. Anything otherwise will be in breach of the constitutional provision which gives the exclusivity to the Executive in the preparation of the budget!

When passed to law, the budget implementation is strictly within the purview of the Executive, though the legislature ensures that the executive maintains the necessary scrupulous adherence to the spirit and letter of the budget. That is where the principle of checks and balance comes into play.

cheers.

Rotimi Fashakin.

Sent from Samsung Mobile

[Wharf Snake]

Vin Nwanna,

It is totally different from what you described below. Please watch this video below to catch up. 

House Of Reps. Can Not Pad The Budget, But Individuals Can -- Lawal Gumau

House Of Reps. Can Not Pad The Budget, But Individuals Can -- Lawal Gumau For more information log on to http://www.channelstv.com

 

   

                                                                                                                                              

Agwo emeghi nke o jiri buru agwo,umuaka achiri ya hie nku

“suffice it to say that putting all considerations to the test, political, economic as well as social, the basis for unity is not there”  -Jack Gowon

                                                                                                                                              

Wharf  Aiseokhuoba Snake 

Idi-oro, Lagos.

 

On Saturday, August 6, 2016 10:37 AM, 'Nebukadineze Adiele' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Had I seen Obi's piece, I would have withheld mine since our points are similar. Great observation, prof!.

Nebukadineze Adiele
Organized religion sired irrationality.

[Wharf Snake]

Rex Nwanna:

Here is a video defining "padding." This definition is clearly criminal.

[Wharf Snake]

Nebu Nwanna,

Padding happens after the house has voted on a budget. If after the vote a group of people sit in the office of the speaker to move numbers around to favor them and their cohorts and then submit that 'doctored' budget for the President's signature. That is criminal in America. Any changes to the budget must be taken back to the house to be debated and approved. Any other changes outside of the full house debating it is criminal.

Pork in the USA is debated in the house and approved. No one is short changed. If the N/A budgets 5 billion naira for mass transit for Lagos and after the vote, the speaker re-allocates the 5 billion naira to mass transit in his village without resorting to the house for approval of that change, that is criminal. That is not 'Pork'. Pork is debated in the house and voted up and down. It is not secretly inserted and amended when the budget is in transit to the President for his signature.

[Wharf Snake]

Pastor Joe,

You have to separate the criminal acts. The criminal act occurred when the criminals tampered with the budget. A budget is approved when the whole house voted on it and they vote up and down the contents of the budget. Any amendments to that budget after the vote is criminal unless the budget is returned to the house for another vote. By the way if padding is legal then any law passed by the house can be tampered with before it is delivered to the president for his signature. When that happens the intent of the assembly is subverted.

[Joe Attueyi]

Thanks WS. I think you finally cleared it up for me. 

If the house passed a budget and it is tampered with in the speaker's office before reconciliation with senate and forwarding to the president then I agree with you. There is a criminal act BEFORE presidential assent....which I assume presidential assent cannot retroactively decriminalize 

Thanks

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

My Fellow Nigerians:

Prof. Wole Soyinka once stated that we Nigerians have such an inventiveness that we sometimes do "normal criminality" in such an inventive way that it takes a particularly Nigerian dimension, and then it gets a SPECIFIC name - such as "4-1-9" (which is a particularly venal form of the normal "crime" of confidence trickery) and "padding" (which is a particularly venal form of the normal "crime" of pork-barrel legislating).

It is the particularly Nigerian form of criminality that is confusing people like Joe Attueyi and Obi Nwakanma, that they are raising questions below.

Let me give an example of a situation that will make this "padding" issue hopefully a little bit clearer.  Suppose eight of us have a Government Council meeting, in which we have thoroughly discussed and agreed on certain projects brought before it by Management (which recommends Project A N1 million, and Project B N2.5 million)..  Before we leave that meeting, we ask the Secretary of the meeting to read back the minutes and all the resolutions, and we all agree that those are what we discussed, that should be transmitted to the Management for its consent and execution.  The agreement is to decrease the total amount for Projects by N1.5 million, but remove one project but add two more projects, such that Project B is N500,000, Project C is N500,000, Project D is N1 million.  For all we know, Projects C and D may be "pork barrel", but at least the whole Governing Council agreed to it.

Now, however, between the time the minutes/resolutions were signed and transmitted to Management, the Chairman of the Governing Council, the Treasurer and the Secretary meet behind and COLLUDE to re-write certain entries in the minutes - keeping the number of pages of the minutes and total budget sum intact, but FURTHER increasing the number of projects by two, such that we now have for Project B N300,000,  Project C N200,000, Project D N300,000, Project E N500,000 and Project F N500,000 WITHOUT the knowledge of ANY OTHER person in the Governing Council knowing that those have been changed.

This  "padded" budget is now passed back to an UNSUSPECTING Management who thinks that all the projects under signature were agreed by the whole Governing Council.  But there is a twist:  the Chairman and Secretary ask that the Management sign/approve the new resolutions but does not really give the details.  That is what raises the suspicion of the Management, but fearing too much delay, AFTER further discussion with the leadership of the Governing Council (with some further minor adjustments) only, it signs on.

It is only after the Management signs of on what it thought was the agreed resolutions that OTHER members of the Governing Council, now seeing the signed document, complains that it was NOT aware of the Projects E and F, and that the figures that they agreed for Projects B, C and D were not correct - and Katakata starts, with the Treasurer confessing that "Yes, we changed the figures...Sorry....I intend to be honest for the rest of my life."

So what the Chairman, Treasurer and Secretary of the Governing Council did was OUTRIGHT Forgery, euphemistically called "Padding", and is OUTSIDE the legislative process, and is CRIMINAL.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Joe Attueyi:

Alleluyah!  Now you understand....I explained all of this with this same video last week, and my email giving another explanation just crossed SwampSnake's mail.

Anyway, the Yoruba say that if a man sees a snake, and a woman kills it, provided the snake is dead, who cares who killed it?

I must say that I am quite surprised why it is so difficult for you to smell a crime......you have to tune your pastoral antennas better, my man!

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko'

Having a belly laugh

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 5:33 PM, 'Joe Attueyi' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Thanks WS. I think you finally cleared it up for me. 

If the house passed a budget and it is tampered with in the speaker's office before reconciliation with senate and forwarding to the president then I agree with you. There is a criminal act BEFORE presidential assent....which I assume presidential assent cannot retroactively decriminalize 

Thanks

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

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[Wilson Iguade]

All the grammar don start!

It is simple, the Executive prepares and submits the budget to Congress or Parliament, then Congress debate the proposals as presented by the President/Executive and MAKES any changes Congress damn pleases for the good of the country and their constituency (political or otherwise). 

After all the give and take, Congress passes a bill, which is the appropriation bill. The Appropriation bill is the law and mandate for SPENDING, not what the President proposes if not agreed to by Congress. To be clear, Congress can and does changes the proposed budget from the President. 

Stay tuned for more. Iguade

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[Rex Marinus]

Rotimi,

First, an "executive bill" is a contradiction in terms in a presidential system. It s one of those hybrid carryovers from the Westminster system which Nigeria practiced in the first republic, and a constitutional fraud in the current constitution of Nigeria. The Presidential system is more clear-cut about separation of powers, and the executive branch in the presidential system has no business introducing legislative bills under the guise of an "executive bill." The budget bill is one of the single exceptions, and it is actually not a bill: it is proposal which the president makes, normally after long meetings between the president and his party's leadership in the National Assembly, and various budget and policy research and legislative aides, to firm up a position, the president's budget proposal, normally introduced for debate in the Legislature by the leader of the president's party in the House under the budget schedule. It becomes a bill after that and not before, and it makes its way through the various committees until it comes for an up and down vote on the floor of the House. It actually often is like horse-trading, or like commodity buyers in a livestock pit.

The legislature is not only free to concur or demur, they have a mandate to make changes. Because budgets are often linked to taxation, and to the warehousing of revenue, the issues are fixed and proclaimed on those basis. As you know, the decision to raise tax is not an executive decision, it is a legislative mandate that empowers a president to raise, even anini to the kobo, on say gas prices, or such things, in order to fund the budget, and Parliament on such an occasion is not expected to be merely a Wallflower, which is what it implies when you suggest that they can merely choose to concur or demur on the "executive bill" outlining the President's budget proposals. The Legislature may reject any proposed increase in tax, including the raising of the tax on electricity, for instance, often called "price increases."

In actual fact, Budget making is one of the most collaborative processes in government in a democracy, and requires details and control of mechanisms of procedure that comes with access to strategic information and a high depth of knowledge. What I have learnt in this particular case is that a very small group of self-interested legislators had gone ahead, after the HOR had debated and passed the budget, behind the back of the entire House, to change the items of the budget to reflect proposals unaccounted for in the House general resolutions. This is criminal, without question. Two things are left to do: one is to investigate and sanction them through the House Ethics Committee. Such sanctions may include expelling them from the house, and thereafter handing them over to the Prosecutorial arm of government. The least that can be done is suspending them with consequence. The second option is to mount a recall movement against them. This is why we must have a very active, well-informed and less cynical middle class, which must lead the fight to recruit and elect highly informed people as legislators. Because few people realize that nations are made or marred by this powerful institution, we keep sending second-ate people to make our laws and be the gatekeepers of the republic! Those who abuse the public trust must be forced out, through a groundswell of the plebiscitory power already given to the public by the constitution,  in the recall process or option. We have no other alternative.

Obi Nwakanma

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[Afis Deinde]

 "A question has been bugging me that you may be able to answer : was the criminally padded budget the same that was signed by PMB? If yes, does PMB signing the budget convert the crime into law since the Appropriations Act 2016 is now law of the land? If the crime is now legal shouldn't PMB be answering some questions about whether the criminally padded budget was signed off by him negligently or through criminal connivance?".......Joe Attueyi.

Afis comment:  As usual, VC's explanation covers all bases. Nothing to add on his.

But this Joe guy, something is wrong with him.

The questions above don't make sense.

If the Budget was padded, what's Buhari's crime in that?

He delayed passing the bill until it was cleared up. He sacked the Budget Director, that wasn't enough, one Idiotic Inyanminrin said he should fire the finance minister. 

On and on.

What's the matter with these Joe and his Inyanminrin Chorus Wailing Wailers?

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

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[Rex Marinus]

Nebu, dianyi, curious and hungry minds often think alike....:-) Ya gazie.

Obi Nwakanma

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Subject: #2: A question for the lawyers: The criminally padded budget

 

Had I seen Obi's piece, I would have withheld mine since our points are similar. Great observation, prof!.

Nebukadineze Adiele
Organized religion sired irrationality.

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Sent: Sat, Aug 6, 2016 9:44 am

[Afis Deinde]

Only Inyanminrins are confounded about the word "padding".

All right thinking Nigerians know that's euphemism for "419" in high places.

These Inyanminrins are time wasters!

I'm amused when reading them.

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

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[therea...@yahoo.com]

Dear Mr Fashakin,

I think I usually agree with your opinions more often than not. And in the instances where I disagree, I still salute the candour and intellectual strength of your delivery. ‎I think your position below is not very clear and needs to be clarified. And this is how I'm looking at it: 

I think we all need to agree first and foremost, on a generally understood and accepted definition of that word "padding". And in so doing, please let's look at the following possible scenarios: 

 1. The president ‎proposes the rehabilitation of the Lagos-Ibadan Expressway in the budget but a powerful lobby group influences the National Assembly to extend the project to Ilesha or Ile-Ife, and thereby increasing the vote on that budget head. Is that "padding" or not?

Or

2. The president proposes a 20,000 capacity stadium in Maiduguri but the National Assembly upscales it to a 30,000 stadium and increases the vote on the project. Is that "padding"‎?

3. The president proposes either 1 or 2 above and some powerful assemblymen get the National Assembly to increase the votes as described in 1 and 2 above, but with the intention that the additional budget would not be ‎implemented and the extra vote would not be spent but be shared among the thieves. 

Obviously, for these individual(s) to make the dirty pecuniary gain out of this, they must enjoy the collusion of the relevant MDA from the executive side to issue the false contract and facilitate the release of funds by the Minister of Finance. 

‎4. The National Assembly has deliberated on and approved a budget ‎but one or a few individuals thereafter go and insert extra votes/projects that were not approved by the Assembly and then pass those to the president to sign into law. As in Scenario 3, there must be collusion from the executive side for the thieves to make any pecuniary gain out of this.

Numbers 1 and 2 above may be (just may be) unconstitutional/illegal but not necessarily criminal. The constitution is very clear that it's only the executive arm of government that has the constitutional power to propose a budget while the National Assembly is to approve or amend or disapprove it. And it's my own belief that, in amending the budget, the National ‎Assembly may ONLY reduce, not increase the vote. Numbers 1 and 2 above would seem to tantamount to the Legislature usurping executive functions by PROPOSING, and then approving, a project that was not proposed by the executive. I don't think it is the intention of the constitution for the National Assembly to propose a project not proposed by the executive and then approve it. Unfortunately, this has been an unsettled controversy since the days of Obasanjo as an elected president. When Obasanjo complained about this anomaly and attempted to veto the budget (by refusing to sign it into law), the National Assembly then threatened to override his veto by Two-Thirds majority which would vote the budget into law without the assent of the president. ‎Instead of Obasanjo taking this case to the Supreme Court for interpretation/adjudication, he signed the budgets but refused to implement the areas not agreed by him and his executive. I remember that this led to ‎the threat of his impeachment on, at least, two occasions or so. Umar Ghali Na'Abba, former Speaker of the House of Representatives, was at the arrow head of this activism.

With this situation still remaining unsettled in the law court, I think that was what Dogara meant by saying "padding" is not new and is not illegal. He would be right. Until the court rules on the matter, we may have no choice but to live with the phenomenon of "padding" as defined in Numbers 1 and 2 above. But if the "padding" that is being discussed is as in Number 3 or 4 above, then that would be outrightly criminal in nature and should be investigated even to the executive and all the culprits punished according to the law. 

But which "padding" are we talking about at this time? Do we all have a common/universal understanding of the "padding" that we're talking about? 

Obi Nwakanma would be 100% correct in his submission below ‎if the "padding" he's talking about is Numbers 1 or/and 2 while you would be absolutely right if what you're referring to is Numbers 3 or/and 4.  

Thanks.

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: rotfash rot...@yahoo.com [NaijaObserver] Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2016 07:07

To: Rex Marinus; Joe Attueyi; naija...@googlegroups.com

Reply To: NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Politics Naija; African GM; Okonkwonetworks; Yahoo! Inc.; Yahoo! Inc.; Ra'ayi Riga; Yahoo! Inc.; Yahoo! Inc.; nigerianid@yahoogroups com; Yahoo! Inc.; Abba; olakassimmd@aol com; Agbor Ike; nebuka...@aol.com; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD; vincent...@msn.com; therealsegun Subject: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: A question for the lawyers: The criminally padded budget

 

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[therea...@yahoo.com]

How would "all suppose to understand" that the guys are rogues when we've  ignored the need to explain the "padding" issue that we're talking about here? What did your guys do here? Did they add votes to the budget beyond what was agreed on the floor of the House? That should be stated clearly if that's the case. In that similar case against a member of the House of Representatives around 2008, Ndudi Elumelu who was accused of fraudulently adding N5.2bn to the budget for rural electrification under Yar'Adua, the charge was clearly stated though our courts eventually set him free, as usual. 

No one will, or can, be ‎prosecuted or convicted on a charge of "budget padding" so we need to be given the details of how much your guys added and under what heads. 

But we hear your "camp", the APC is now trying to shut up Jibrin so the matter could be allowed to die down and your "camp" saved the embarrassment of this scandal. 

We  hear the "camp" is also apologising to Nigerians, not for the fact that 'CHANGE agents' could be involved in something like this but for the party "not nipping the ensuing crisis in the bud"! Open the links below please. 

Are you still sure corruption should not be punished in those who have "impliedly repented" and "spent a fraction of state resources on Baba's election"?

"The party said it has accepted responsibility for failing to nip in the bud the embarrassing face-off between the Speaker of the House, Yakubu Dogara and a member of the party and former Chairman of the Appropriation Committee, Jubrin Abdumumini, over the 2016 budget.

Deputy National Chairman of the party, Segun Oni tendered the apology on Monday during a session on the proposals for amendments to the Electoral Act organised by the PGF."‎

http://dailypost.ng/2016/08/08/budget-padding-apc-berates-jibrin-flouting-directive/

‎http://m.news24.com.ng/Nigeria/Politics/News/apc-apologises-to-nigerians-over-budget-padding-scandal-20160809

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [YanArewa] Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2016 13:40 To: YanA...@yahoogroups.com Reply To: YanA...@yahoogroups.com Cc: rotfash rot...@yahoo.com [NaijaObserver]; Rex Marinus; Joe Attueyi; naija...@googlegroups.com; Politics Naija; African GM; Okonkwonetworks; Yahoo! Inc.; Yahoo! Inc.; Ra'ayi Riga; nigerianid@yahoogroups com; Yahoo! Inc.; Abba; olakassimmd@aol com; Agbor Ike; nebuka...@aol.com; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD; vincent...@msn.com Subject: Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: A question for the lawyers: The criminally padded budget

 

All suppose to understand that the guys are rogues with fraudulent intent. Padding is a serious fraud and it amounts to corruption . All those involved deserve to be heavily sanctioned not covered up.

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[Joe Attueyi]

Imperial,

The Presidency say there is nothing like padding 

Who are you to say padding is a serious fraud?

Are you accusing the presidency of lying or covering up 'serious fraud'?

Inquiring minds want to know 

Joe

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Joe Attueyi:

You are back to your broken antenna, that brutalizes sensitivity to this particular crime.

"Padding" is always a perjorative when it comes to financial dealings, may not ALWAYS be criminal, but is now being used as a euphemism for "forgery" in this particular case of Budget 2016, so as to escape the criminal charge.

.I thought the snake had been killed, but apparently not.  So please come with me again .......

1.  President makes a Budget Proposal (Budget Bill 2016)

2.  National Assembly members ALTOGETHER discuss the proposal (sometimes of course in committee), and make some amendments (adding some projects, removing some, inflating or deflating some figures) , sign off on it, for it to be delivered to the President as an Amended Budget Bill 2016,

3.  However, the NASS Assembly Leadership, ON THE ROAD to the President, allegedly modifies the Amended Bill WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE FULL NASS, under old signature, and presents it to the President as being the agreed Amended Bill.  This Modified Amended Budget Bill 2016 is a FALSE REPRESENTATION, a forgery.

4.  The President signs the Modified Amended Bill 2016, not suspecting (?), and makes it the Budget Act 2016.  [He may actually suspect something, but may have determined that he will not release money for the "padded" projects anyway.]

5.  Following signature, the REST of the NASS sees the Budget Act 2016, and many cry FOUL when comparing the Amended Budget Bill 2016, the illegal Modified Budgett Bill 2016 and the Budget Act 2016 , now noticing many projects that were not approved by NASS had been inserted.

Why is this illegality so difficult to see by us Nigerians?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Bolaji Aluko

Shaking his head violently

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[topcrest topcrest]

Imperial,

Presidency Defends Dogara, Says Nothing like Budget Padding

			Presidency Defends Dogara, Says Nothing like Budget ...   The Presidency yesterday rubbished claims by the former Chairman, House Committee on Appro­priation Hon Abdul­mumin Jubrin, insisting that there was ...
			View on www.dailynigerianew...	Preview by Yahoo

Presidential Adviser: Budget ‘Padding’ Not in Legislative Lexicon 

			Presidential Adviser: Budget ‘Padding’ Not in Legislativ...    Distances presidency from budget feud   Udoma: FG will review budget only when necessary   N331.5bn CAPEX released, 2017 Appropriation Bill to be submitte...
			View on www.thisdaylive.com	Preview by Yahoo

 

"...The presidency also more or less took sides with the Speaker of the House, Hon. Dogara and others who were accused of altering the budget, when it towed the path of the speaker by stating that there was no word like “padding” in the legislative lexicon.

It said the 2016 budget currently in use was the one originally passed by the lawmakers and there was nothing like “padding” in it."

---In NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com, <imperial_ltd@...> wrote :

Pastor ,

Please show any evidence to corroborate what you stated below the the FGN say nothing like padding

I won't be surprised if I hear tomorrow that you are one of the remote padders . 😀😀😀😀 

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[Wharfery Snake]

Mr. Bolaji Aluko

VC (Sacked):

Would you consider the alleged overpayments you made to yourself as VC of FUO a form of padding? 

WS - A revered prince of Mushin.

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[Joe Attueyi]

Why is this illegality so difficult to see by us Nigerians?

Inquiring minds want to know...... Prof Aluko

Prof Aluko

Shey everything is ok o?

If you have something to say to the presidency I think you should develop the testicular fortitude to say it ---without hiding behind me ( and shaking yer head violently! Hehehehe)

Dogara, the man alleged to have spearheaded the 'padding' says there is nothing like padding in the budget and even if there were it is not illegal 

The presidency issues a statement supporting Dogara

http://punchng.com/presidency-backs-dogara-says-budget-not-padded/

"..The Presidency on Tuesday said the  2016 budget, which President Muhammadu Buhari signed into law, was not padded.."

I ask you the same question I asked Imperial:

Are you accusing the presidency of lying or covering up 'serious fraud'?

Joe

Laughing at all these folks who maneuver themselves into a corner where they can't speak their minds anymore.  

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[afis 'Deinde]

"1. The president ‎proposes the rehabilitation of the Lagos-Ibadan Expressway in the budget but a powerful lobby group influences the National Assembly to extend the project to Ilesha or Ile-Ife, and thereby increasing the vote on that budget head. Is that "padding" or not?

Or

2. The president proposes a 20,000 capacity stadium in Maiduguri but the National Assembly upscales it to a 30,000 stadium and increases the vote on the project. Is that "padding"‎?"

......Therealsegun.

The above examples are not "padding".

This is "amending".

I don't like getting into Naija pure Yoruba-unrelated business, but that is not "padding" as contained in the Yahozee 419 codes of conduct.

Shikena 

Afis
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[therea...@yahoo.com]

‎We no hear Pim from Imperial again o. He's been jumping up and down claiming Dogara committed fraud. APC told Jibrin to shut up and forget about "padding" but he still dey do Agidi (stubborn). If Jibrin no careful, DSS and EFCC go arrest am. Lol. 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: topcrest topcrest topc...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] Sent: Wednesday, 10 August 2016 09:57 To: africanw...@googlegroups.com Reply To: NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [YanArewa]; rotfash rot...@yahoo.com [NaijaObserver]; Rex Marinus; Nebukadineze Adiele' via NaijaEvent; Politics Naija; Okonkwonetworks; Yahoo! Inc.; Yahoo! Inc.; Ra'ayi Riga; nigerianid@yahoogroups com; Yahoo! Inc.; Abba; olakassimmd@aol com; Agbor Ike; Nebuka...@aol.com; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD; Vin otuonye Subject: [NaijaPolitics] Re: [africanworldforum] Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: A question for the lawyers: The criminally padded budget

 

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Posted by: topcrest topcrest <topc...@yahoo.com>

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[Joe Attueyi]

Hehehehe! No be small matter o!

I wonder if Prof Aluko still thinks it is an illegality and if he does what he thinks about the presidency's position on the matter. 

Dis kwantry sef!

Joe 

Sent from my iPhone

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[rotfash]

my brother Segun:

I have read all the four scenarios. We need to look again at the language of the Constitution. Unfortunately, if a practice, albeit illegal, is left unchallenged for too long, it will assume  or get robed in the toga of legality.

Let me give you another scenario,this time, not hypothetical as yours below, to show you the invidiousness of the mindset of the people we have always elected to represent us at the national assembly.

Just shortly after the commencement of the 4th Republic in 2000/2001, the senate committee on information increased the budget of the NTA and told the management to return the favour by doling out N100million to the committee members. Coincidentally, the chief Executive of NTA at that time was Ben Bruce. Both himself and another director in NTA kicked against it. Their worry was how the payment would be accounted for. As a way out, the committee members themselves suggested a dodgy insurance scheme for the staff members of NTA for N100million. The money was therefore 'legally' moved in four tranches of New million each.

It is not in the contemplation of the framers of the constitution that such anomalous scenarios would play out to thwart the proper delineation of the roles of both the Executive and Legislature in the budget process.

In scenarios 1&2 above, the NASS could allow Executive's proposal to sail through and then order the Executive to accommodate its desires for elongation of the scope of the projects in a supplementary budget. In that way, every institution would have ensured that scrupulous adherence to the dictates of the letter and spirit of the constitution.

Let me repeat for emphasis that  the legislature adding a project to the budget or subtracting from it without concurrence of the executive will be tantamount to preparing the budget; this is totally unconstitutional!

I believe the time is ripe for the Supreme court to be called upon to interpret the budget process vis-a-vis the roles of NASS and the Executive.

Thank you.

Rotimi Fashakin.

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: 'Joe Attueyi' via OkonkwoNetworks
Date:10/08/2016 8:38 AM (GMT+01:00)
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: "Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [YanArewa]" ,"rotfash rot...@yahoo.com [NaijaObserver]" ,Rex Marinus ,naija...@googlegroups.com,Politics Naija ,Okonkwonetworks ,"Yahoo! Inc." ,"Yahoo! Inc." ,Ra'ayi Riga ,"nigerianid@yahoogroups com" ,"Yahoo! Inc." ,Abba ,"olakassimmd@aol com" ,Agbor Ike ,nebuka...@aol.com,FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD ,vincent...@msn.com
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: A question for the lawyers: The criminally padded budget

Imperial,

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Posted by: Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com>

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[therea...@yahoo.com]

Na so we no hear Pim again from our people wey dey jump up and down ‎on top "criminally padded budget". The matter don settle internally for APC and dem don tell us say padding no dey anywhere. Na so our people no see "criminally padded budget" again o. Na just like when NEPA take light and movie just stop suddenly, our people just go siddon jeje when Baba say no padding dey budget. 

Na so Nigerians just kuku turn d tin to joke for town o.

Some I've heard in the last few days are: 

Yoruba people have a greeting for every occasion and every season. During the morning, they say E kaaro o, in the afternoon, they say E kaasan o, in the evening, they say E kuu role o, in the night, they say E kaale o, during festive occasions, they say E ku odun o. Now in this season of Padding, Yorubas now say E ku Padding o. Padding a tu wa lara o.  😀😀😂😂😂

A friend was describing the party he attended last weekend to another friend. He said "Aaaaaah, if you see that paatii..wo o, o padded baje !"

😂

You would soon start seeing names like Alh Jubrin Abdulpadded , Red cap Chief Hyginius Ezepad Onwa,

Otunba kasali Ogunpadding, Olorogun Polycarp Paddedson etc. 

Me, I be paddedBoy from today,...u nko?

For church, God na our own padding. Father, as you padded for Dogara wey him enemy no fit comot am for hin mouth, Baba, do my own padding for me. Give me my own padding in d presence of my enemies‎ make dem come shut up dey look me d way u shut up Jibrin and Internet warriors in Jesus's name. Aduraaaaaa!!! 

Lol.

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: therea...@yahoo.com [OmoOdua] Sent: Wednesday, 10 August 2016 22:27 To: Omo...@yahoogroups.com Reply To: Omo...@yahoogroups.com

Cc: rotfash rot...@yahoo.com [NaijaObserver]; Rex Marinus; Joe Attueyi; naija...@googlegroups.com; Politics Naija; African GM; Okonkwonetworks; Yahoo! Inc.; Yahoo! Inc.; Ra'ayi Riga; nigerianid@yahoogroups com; Yahoo! Inc.; Abba; olakassimmd@aol com; Agbor Ike; nebuka...@aol.com; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD; vincent...@msn.com

Subject: [OmoOdua] Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: A question for the lawyers: The criminally padded budget

 

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