Ideal hill size/ thickness for Fantasy Battle

[Don Rice]

Hi what does everyone think about the right hill size and thickness for
Fantasy Battle?

I'm going to make (probably) or buy (possibly) some more hills. It
seems like 1" thick stepped hills are the way to go these days, or maybe
even 3/4", and since I need to store them, they'll be modular pieces no
larger than 10x12", or maybe 10x10" (depends on the box).

I used to think hills should be 2" or 3" thick, but that was in old
versions of the game where hills blocked line of sight. In 8th, hills
don't do that any more, and thinner is better for placing movement trays
on the slopes.

And again in old editions the rule was terrain bases shouldn't have a
dimension longer than 12" (so should fit inside a 12" circle). There
doesn't seem to be a rule like that any more, but it still seems a good
guideline (and the pieces are easier to store). Some of the hill pieces
can have flat vertical sides that can connect to other pieces and make
bigger hills.

- Don



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[Jason]

The general rule of 8th edition is "true line of sight", but some big tournaments still say hills block line of sight.

I say just make them functional, so 1-2" tall and flat ontop!

[Don Rice]

Agree about thin and flat.  And stepped.

FWIW I'm thinking of following Matakishi's article on shaping the hills: http://www.matakishi.com/hills.htm   His are about 3/4" thick.  He games in 28mm but not Warhammer and uses multi-bases but not movement trays.  His base material is a 12" tile which he cuts with no wastage so the longest dimension of any piece is 12". 

Games Workshop had some plastic "Gaming Hills" for a while (one piece and modular).  There's still the Realm of Battle board with molded in hills.  Aren't all of these about 1" high? I'm assuming these are "official" references even though we don't see them in use much (too expensive).

  - Don

==============

On 2/12/2015 10:38 AM, Jason wrote:

The general rule of 8th edition is "true line of sight", but some big tournaments still say hills block line of sight.

I say just make them functional, so 1-2" tall and flat ontop!

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[Filip CO]

Depends on your gaming group.  If you play true line of sight, hills that aren't tall enough to block line of sight are functionally useless.  They may look good, but provide no tactical element to the game.

[Rob Rodgers]

I think the right size for a WHFB hill is

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CITADEL-MODULAR-GAMING-HILL-Warhammer-Games-Workshop-Terrain-BNIB-/141572561407?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f661d9ff

[Ken - Skaven]

I bought a 36 x 12 x1 block of foam and made what I think are some nice hills.  3 of them, so 12 x 12 x 1.  But seem very large compared to what people use to play with.  With a horde army like super cool awesome rat men, I figured you'd need a lot of surface area so that everyone was on some basic common plane.  I want to make some 2 and 3 inch high hills, for fun.  But not sure anyone would want to play them.  I'd like to stick some Jezzail's up there, but that's how I roll.

[Ken - Skaven]

$50 for that?

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 10:43:52 AM UTC-8, rdr2019 wrote:

I think the right size for a WHFB hill is

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CITADEL-MODULAR-GAMING-HILL-Warhammer-Games-Workshop-Terrain-BNIB-/141572561407?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f661d9ff

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Filip 

Depends on your gaming group.  If you play true line of sight, hills that aren't tall enough to block line of sight are functionally useless.  They may look good, but provide no tactical element to the game.

[Don Rice]

Anybody have measurements of the Citadel Gaming Hills? Base footprint, hill footprint, total hill height?

There are 2 kinds, this modular hill set plus a standalone hill.

The single hill was released originally with the Battle of Five Armies set (years before the Hobbit movies) which uses 10mm figures. Then the same hill was released as Citadel Terrain for Warhammer. I'm thinking it is 1" high but would like to confirm.

The modular hill was released with the battle board. I believe it is the same height as the other, just bigger.

They're not currently available on the GW web site, BTW.

-- Don
Sent from my phone.

[Anton]

Hey Don,
I made a few hills using 1-inch pink foam from Home Depot. Here's a photo. I made small hills, 1-inch tall and 6 to 8 inches across, and bigger hills, 2 inches tall and 10 to 12 inches across. And I agree with Jason: flat on top and sloped on the sides.

Hope this helps,
Anton

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[Don Rice]

Thanks Anton.

I'm going to try 3/4" thick with flat sides.  Two levels should be 1.5" high which as best as I can tell is the height of GW's hills.   Three levels at 2.25" is tall enough to hide some cavalry.   The thinner the level, the easier to span movement trays across them.

I'm following this plan from Matakishi's web site.  He uses cork 18mm thick (just about 3/4") and his larger pieces are all modular cut down from 12" tiles.  http://www.matakishi.com/hills.htm

I wanted to try cork because it's renewable and should make for easier cleanup than foam.   I was able to find a flooring place selling 1/2" and 1/4" thick cork.  Unfortunately it's not tiles, it's sheets.  I've stacked and glued together the two thicknesses to make 3/4".  Next step is to cut them down to 12" tile size on the table saw -- hopefully they'll cut OK and not disintegrate.  If they do ... interesting texture. :)  And I cut the rest by hand with a utility knife.

If these suck, next plan will be to get 1" foam just like you described, and I think I'll still follow Matakishi's plan since 12" modular is easy to store and straight sides are easy to make, but bevel the top edges.


  - Don
===========

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[Rob Rodgers]

Hi Don,

My problem with those hills is that they are butt crank ugly. I would totally sacrifice a bit of functionality to have a more beautiful setting.*  This is why I drive a Fiat and not a Toyota.

I've seen first hand what you are capable of in terms of making great terrain. I'd love to see what you can do with a hill, and not in the sense of little piles of cork.  If the mini's fall off, well, that's Warhammer.  And, to quote Mr. Pinkman: "Magnets, bitch!"

/rant

* For those of you who have seen my army, do what I say, not what I do.

[Don Rice]

Hi Rob,

LOL well . . .I already made some.

I would be more charitable and call them "plain" not "butt crank ugly".  And the minis falling is an issue for some gamers (you're right, mostly the ones that don't use magnets).  I wanted a quick table's worth of playable hills, and I wanted the skill set for making them under my belt.  From here I'm set and at my leisure I can add additional more time consuming more detailed prettier hills.   Probably first though I'll just make some detail pieces that can go on top: rock spires made from pine bark stuck onto bases, etc. 

See picture.  At the time the glue was still drying so nothing's stacked yet.  I have one more sheet to cut up into 6 tiles to make those corner pieces in Matakishi's layout.  

Appreciate the input.

  - Don 

-------

[Don Rice]

So I flocked the last set of hills.  Here they are all laid out.

This was from about 18 square feet of cork (comes in sheets 2x3', thickness 1/4" or 1/2", glued one of each together to make 3/4" thick).  I cut them into 12x12" tiles with a table saw, then did the shape cuts with a jigsaw.  Glue was yellow carpenter's glue.  Flock was about a whole 100cc bag of Noch Spring Meadow static grass (the more yellow ones are Summer Meadow which I used up first then found my other grass didn't match exactly.  D-oh!).

Here's all the pieces assembled into hills:



For storage, they can stack back into the original 12x12" form factor.  Look how many fit in a banker's box:






All pieces started from 12x12" tiles and the ones that kept a straight edge have either 12" or 6" straight edges so can be combined with other flat edge pieces to make larger hills.  Here's some modular pieces assembled into a ridge for a game.  In the bottom layer of the ridge, the pieces have 12" flat edges.  The middle layer has 6" flat edges:


The little annoying ridge top pieces that are too small to put a movement tray on?  They have several uses.  First the player above decided they could be used as berms to give his shooters cover representing his Handgunners deployed slightly back from the peak of the hill.  (If you don't want to allow that, don't place the small pieces on top of the hill.)

Also when a movement tray has to go up the slope of a steep hill, you can grab a small hilltop piece to prop it up while it's on the slope. 

Or two pieces in this case.
Materials cost for what's here is something like $40 for the cork, $16 for 32 oz of wood glue, $10 for the flock (bought it a while ago though).   So maybe $70? Plus I had the two saws already, and the boards and clamps.

Am I done?  Well ... You know the one that's a whole square tile with a quarter circle out of one corner?  I only made 1 of those.  With a couple more, there's an interesting rolling hills layout you can do.  So I may be making a few more.

  - Don
===========

On 2/17/2015 8:36 AM, Don Rice wrote:

I'm going to try 3/4" thick with flat sides.  Two levels should be 1.5" high which as best as I can tell is the height of GW's hills.   Three levels at 2.25" is tall enough to hide some cavalry.   The thinner the level, the easier to span movement trays across them.

I'm following this plan from Matakishi's web site.  He uses cork 18mm thick (just about 3/4") and his larger pieces are all modular cut down from 12" tiles.  http://www.matakishi.com/hills.htm

I wanted to try cork because it's renewable and should make for easier cleanup than foam.   I was able to find a flooring place selling 1/2" and 1/4" thick cork.  Unfortunately it's not tiles, it's sheets.  I've stacked and glued together the two thicknesses to make 3/4".  Next step is to cut them down to 12" tile size on the table saw -- hopefully they'll cut OK and not disintegrate.  If they do ... interesting texture. :)  And I cut the rest by hand with a utility knife.

If these suck, next plan will be to get 1" foam just like you described, and I think I'll still follow Matakishi's plan since 12" modular is easy to store and straight sides are easy to make, but bevel the top edges.

===========

On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 9:46:22 AM UTC-8, Don Rice - Orcs & Goblins wrote:

Hi what does everyone think about the right hill size and thickness for
Fantasy Battle?

I'm going to make (probably) or buy (possibly) some more hills.  It
seems like 1" thick stepped hills are the way to go these days, or maybe
even 3/4", and since I need to store them, they'll be modular pieces no
larger than 10x12", or maybe 10x10" (depends on the box).

I used to think hills should be 2" or 3" thick, but that was in old
versions of the game where hills blocked line of sight.  In 8th, hills
don't do that any more, and thinner is better for placing movement trays
on the slopes.

And again in old editions the rule was terrain bases shouldn't have a
dimension longer than 12" (so should fit inside a 12" circle). There
doesn't seem to be a rule like that any more, but it still seems a good
guideline (and the pieces are easier to store).  Some of the hill pieces
can have flat vertical sides that can connect to other pieces and make
bigger hills.

   - Don



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[Stewart Roud]

Good stuff don!

[Sterling Robertson]

Yeah that looks great. I think 2 or 3 hills for warhammer fantasy is all you'd ever need but those would be great for all kinds of things.

If you're wondering if your done, have you tried painting the edges of one of the hills green or something? The exposed cork could work for rock but I would try painting or flocking one or two completely to see what it looks like. Some different shades of static grass or some tufts will go a long way. Its especially nice in the edges where the hills stack. Some little cork rocks or some scattered sand would look good. Glue them with super glue and they'll last even if you stack things on them.

I'd probably take two hills and deck them out with more stuff, battlefield debris, rocks, tufts, flowers, some skulls, whatever is lying around. But only because you asked for ideas.

-Sterling


On Sunday, March 1, 2015 at 4:54:36 PM UTC-8, Schtewverst Von Roudenstein wrote:

Good stuff don!

[Don Rice]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I wanted to get a whole set done.  From here out, at some point I'll probably experiment a little with better modelling.

Truth is, I've seen cork used for rock for years on different web sites.  Certainly they typically have a more rock-like ragged edge.  But anyway, I guess I'm used to how it looks so it doesn't seem so bad. 

  - Don

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