Charter Affirming Trans Rights

[Eric Lis]

Since attending MicroCon, I've been toying with the idea that the Empire should have a formal document in place affirming the right of trans people to legally modify their identity and, if they wish, their bodies to conform with who they feel themselves to be. For a long time, I think that I and the bulk of the government felt that it was sufficient to simply not have any laws AGAINST this, but as with our policy recognizing the equality of all consenting marriages, the feeling more and more is that failing to oppose isn't enough, and we instead have a responsibility to vocally support. There are some existing inter-micronational treaties with similar stances, but I'm not a fan of the main ones because they very specifically call for tormenting anti-trans people... which must be very tempting at times, but which never actually leads anyone to change their stance. 

To that end, I drafted this document. I posted it to the Discord a few weeks back and got good feedback, and have also shared it with a couple of representatives of other micronations. I'm now putting it out there on the mailing list to see if anyone has any thoughts, positive or negative. Negative feedback is just as welcome as positive IF it isn't accompanied by words to the effect of "JK Rowling says" or "Jordan Peterson says." 

My goal is to come up with a paper which the bulk of citizens feels represents their beliefs on this subject, have it adopted by the Senate (once the Senate is back up and running, which is item 76 on my to-do list), and then open it up to other micronations to sign at MicroCon in 2025.

Eric Lis MD.,CM.,FRCPC

Emperor of the Aerican Empire 

http://www.aericanempire.com/

"In the end, everything is a gag." 

Charlie Chaplin 

[Pete Smith]

Eric,

That is a beautifully written piece. If this were to be agreed upon by humanity, the world would be a lovely place to live. I firmly believe in “live and let live”, and this document both follows this mantra, and strengthens my respect for you.

Kind regards, <— for once, I truly mean this!

Pete

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Jul 2023, at 8:24 pm, Eric Lis <eri...@hotmail.com> wrote:



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<Montreal-Charter-something-something.doc>

[Panda SanTan]

Eric,

While the document is a great gesture, I hold that by not placing documents on the issue, we recongnize that it is a unspoken right. A right that would not be trampled on principle not just because a piece of paper says so. But I do not, as my position as Seer of the West, oppose the document's ideals.

For the sight is with me,
Evan Paul
Seer of the West

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[Panda SanTan]

Eric,

While the document is a great gesture, I hold that by not placing documents on the issue, we recognize that it is an unspoken right. A right that would not be trampled on principle not just because a piece of paper says so. But I do not, as my position as Seer of the West, oppose the document's ideals.

For the sight is with me,

Evan Paul

Seer of the West

On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 4:21 PM Pete Smith <pe...@wumfi.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/C1D5F437-FF20-4C0C-B62D-32EA45941847%40wumfi.com.

[Ali Richter]

As one of the people who responded in the discord, I do still approve and like this new document being an addition to this fine nation. I hope it'll get approved someday!

--

[Alessandro Demontis]

I am not willing to support this action.

I am therefore hereby leaving the group and quitting my membership.

Regards,

1. Demontis
   
   

---

Da: aer...@googlegroups.com <aer...@googlegroups.com> per conto di Eric Lis <eri...@hotmail.com>
Inviato: lunedì 17 luglio 2023 21:24
A: aer...@googlegroups.com <aer...@googlegroups.com>
Oggetto: [Aerican] Charter Affirming Trans Rights

 

--

[Tor Soltvedt]

Same as Demontis. I hereby cancel my membership.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/PA4PR10MB577947C2D0A2725683C5244DAD38A%40PA4PR10MB5779.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.

[Stina Pinsky]

Alright, weeding out the transphobes! Bye! 

Thanks, actual Aerican government, for standing up for those who need it. Very appreciated. If macro-nations won't actively create a space for everyone, it's nice to see a micronation do it. Document looks great. 

On Jul 17, 2023, at 11:10 PM, Tor Soltvedt <tor.so...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/CAHUvO-hGxEJrBSki7aouKzWKY%2BuJ%3DX0BHsDmHksvaGT7tbeRNA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sean Austin]

Oh no...so sad to see you go...

Oh wait. Sarcasm doesn't translate well in text.

Bye bye. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/D60AB175-5DA3-4F36-A7A9-516E7CD7ED4B%40gmail.com.

[Stuart Lis]

I think this may be a clear indicator that this is the right call. Those who are offended and who may leave now wouldn't have done so with only implicit support to the trans community. This shows that explicit support is a more active stance in regards to what we stand for. 

---

From: aer...@googlegroups.com <aer...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Sean Austin <ravens...@gmail.com>
Sent: July 18, 2023 2:23 AM
To: aer...@googlegroups.com <aer...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Aerican] R: Charter Affirming Trans Rights

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/CAETn0%2Bi6eLGFCCf40iT8eqct-NLGvdXbQ2A6B%2BPd-8GBc0YcYQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tor Soltvedt]

I am one of those who is leaving. And I think I and any others that leave should be able to leave in peace, without and sarcasm or harsh words.

This group does not know anything about me or the other ones who chooses to leave.

I support trans people. I got a friend in this community. I support pride. I have no issues with anyone. I support that everyone shall be able to do whatever they want in life, without prejudice. If my children, for instance,  one day should tell me that they want to be together with someone of same sex or - honestly I wouldn't be glad, but I would support them. What I do not support is the necessary of this document. And this I react on, it has gone to far for me. If this makes me an "anti-trans", is up to others to decide. Personally I don't think so.

It must be room for disagreements here, without being "bullied". This tells me it is prejudice also in this group. And again, I want the leave in peace.

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[Sean Austin]

The fact is that there are far too many places in the world where bodily autonomy is not a lawful right, even for something as simple as a woman's right to what happens with her own body, (looking at you America, a supposedly first world country). We can turn around and say "oh but my country isn't like that", but can we say that and be completely truthful? 

That a piece of paper needs to be written to actually show for all the world to see that someone does indeed have the undeniable basic right to be who or what they want to be in their own body, is a sad indictment of the world we find ourselves living in.

The world is not black and white, one size fits all. It is impossible to put everyone into nice neat prettily labelled boxes. For the simple reason that we are all...what exactly? There are 8 billion people on the planet, each with their own view of the world and who/what they are within it. And that should be a basic human right. Who are we to say what someone else can be within their own body? Or what they do to accurately represent to the world what they are?

This document is a step in that direction, letting people have the right to their own body and how they wish it to be represented. Could some of it be better worded or phrased differently? Probably. Could we as a collective have our own suggestions on this and discuss possibilities? Of course.

To leave this collective because of such a documents existence, however theoretical or unenforceable, that is indeed your right. Freedom of speech and expression are enshrined in many constitutions around the world as lawful human rights. So please, do express that freedom of speech. We will do the same. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/CAHUvO-iiktutXsLKRn9v9OkPtdrACyoHN56WQiq27_KcWbJa-A%40mail.gmail.com.

[GABRIELE MOSCHIN]

Bye-bye.

Thanks to everyone, it has been a lot of fun.

Cheers,

G

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/CAETn0%2Bj83EaiAWdrrN-6%3D6%3DAZE4j3%3DguTTbMHzw9YCmFKxwpnw%40mail.gmail.com.

[lpayne0115]

I said it in the discord and I'll say it again, the document is excellent and it helps give trans citizens confidence that we can be ourselves here. Speaking as someone from a quite unwelcoming part of the US, that confidence is hard to come by sometimes. Good riddance to those who oppose the bill itself out of principle, in a sociopolitical climate such as this I cannot imagine believing a bill like this is too far. Still though, it's their right to preclude themselves from participation in inclusive society, cheers to everyone who remains :)

-Lily

--

[GABRIELE MOSCHIN]

Hi all,

I noticed that classy sarcasm, too. It's part of the carousel.

I invite everybody to left this microstate since worried to be only another expression of a single macronation.

I'd much more see actions against sending weapons and armies to Ukraine or in support of peace (the real one, not the one done by dropping bombs...).

Trans rights are human rights, why should I care so much about something so irrelevant if compared to the death of civilians, misinformation, scaring political agenda, the danger of having US boats close to China (imagine the contrary...).

A micronation should fight for macroissue, not micro issues like this one - that btw is only another way to prepare the road to the Manifest Destiny.

I invite everybody to left this state that is only worried to be align with the big ones.

Long live to MICRONATIONS able to change the status quo.

CIAO CIAO!

G

Il giorno mar 18 lug 2023 alle ore 10:55 Sean Austin <ravens...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

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[Luci Luci]

Can we just do a " be you, beau."

We aren't particularly firm standing on anything serious, and this went way nasty. Dude left. Cool. 

By royal order, chill the 🦆 out and stand down y'all, it ain't that long till we it doesn't Matter AT ALL what you want, identify as, do, make or owe- it all ends the same way, so best we make the fun and play.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/DM4PR84MB1806414098CDC46CAD2C459FF338A%40DM4PR84MB1806.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.

[Luci Luci]

Also we're a bunch of emails, regardless of who we live as, and I have quite happily "identified" - in an incredibly real part of my actual, offline life, tangible way, played the part of Princess Luci. 

For those who don't know, I'm a six foot brick shitter dude with a beard, piercing blue eyes and and am both a bear and a daddy. A daddy bear. Gayest motherfucker on the...actually, nope... I'm not. But I'm, like, UP THERE. Defo up that scale. 

And my actual name, as can be attested by several here IRL - is, Luci. Like, that's my name. 

Weird as shit here in Australia. 

No, it's not Italian. It's not even short for anything (anymore,😜)

You don't have to be online to be who the fuck you want to be- I've pioneered that shit for decades. You don't have to be a six foot shitter, my favorites people on this planet all own themselves so fucking hard, and that's what makes them so. 

 You don't need permission and if you require it, put on a collar and advertise on Craigslist, you'll get it 

You certainly, absolutely, do not need a declaration. 

You also don't need my opinion, nor permission and I don't object. Absolutely respect. It just irks when things go bam over not actually much at all. 

[Eric Lis]

Indeed, let's all try to keep the bullying to a minimum, please. We're trying to be a bit better than that. People have the right to terminate their citizenship at any time and if this drives some folks to do that, it's as good a reason as any. 

The point that several people are making, that we shouldn't NEED a document like this, is a good one, and I'm torn about whether it's enough or better to just not have any anti policies. I'd much rather have no policy or, as was elegantly said, a policy that was as simple as "be you, beau." When it comes to cannabis or something, simply decriminalizing is probably enough, rather than actually having an explicit law which allows it. When it comes to human rights and safety, though, an absence of a policy risks being taken as tacit approval of horrible behaviour. This is why I think we need an actual policy, and also why, as much as it irks me, the policy isn't silly (although I did sneak in one joke).

Eric Lis MD.,CM.,FRCPC

Emperor of the Aerican Empire 

http://www.aericanempire.com/

"In the end, everything is a gag." 

Charlie Chaplin 

---

From: aer...@googlegroups.com <aer...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Tor Soltvedt <tor.so...@gmail.com>
Sent: July 18, 2023 2:58 AM

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/CAHUvO-iiktutXsLKRn9v9OkPtdrACyoHN56WQiq27_KcWbJa-A%40mail.gmail.com.

[Amanda Donaldson]

I like the document and agree with it. I've been trying to remind myself in recent years that it's not always enough to just "not be" something. Not a racist; not a homophobe; not the problem. The harder, but more important part, is to be actively against the problem. Standing up to racism, homophobia, and other bigotry. Change doesn't happen because a bunch of people shrugged off the problem. Let's not make people feel like they're living a life of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Let's tell people we welcome them to be who they are. 

Amanda D.

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[Luci Luci]

We can't enforce jack shit. We don't allow above a certain level of bullying that isn't ridiculous- a threat of orbital bombing of penguins from space is not the same as a threat to punch someone, for instance, even tho they are both, infact, threats as liable to occur as the other IRL, and honestly, it's a fine system. We've always self policed and as far as I recall there's never been an identity attack made here.

Taking a stance on identity politics, in a group of make believe royalty, nonsense names and silly meme stock seems to be beyond trite and well into correct think. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/DM6PR04MB66076CBA9EADFDAD7716E224A438A%40DM6PR04MB6607.namprd04.prod.outlook.com.

[bblashill]

What if we had incorporated both?  A "You be you" openess with an antibullying policy?  Not necessarily outlying what everyone is doing personally or private but more of a "This is a free Micronation."  You don't have to agree with everyone, but you don't need to be an asshat either type of policy.  Hey, I'm a Pepsi girl living in Coca-Cola land.  Things get hairy!!!  We all need to agree to disagree and just move on.  

Life sucks - it's hard enough.  

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device

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[Nolan MacLellan]

Hello there,

This reminds me. I am not yet in the discord and I don't believe I've yet to be added to the senate mailing list.

If someone could link an invite that would be wonderful. I haven't found it on the website yet.

Nolan MacLellan,

Senator of Mars, Emperor of Vasilias, SWH

On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 4:21 PM Pete Smith <pe...@wumfi.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/C1D5F437-FF20-4C0C-B62D-32EA45941847%40wumfi.com.

[knight.s...@gmail.com]

My thoughts exactly.

“you do you – whatever you is”

 

 

Brigadier General Knight Sir Raven

Knight Commander of the Elite Order of the Knights of the White Rose

President of the Aerican Senate

Senator Elect for the Colony of Psyche

Chief Justice of the Aerican High Court

--

[knight.s...@gmail.com]

It’s like the trash took itself out….

 

 

 

From: aer...@googlegroups.com <aer...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Sean Austin
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2023 4:24 PM
To: aer...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Aerican] R: Charter Affirming Trans Rights

 

Oh no...so sad to see you go...

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/CAETn0%2Bi6eLGFCCf40iT8eqct-NLGvdXbQ2A6B%2BPd-8GBc0YcYQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[knight.s...@gmail.com]

I agree wholeheartedly. To not have a stated policy can be seen a tacit approval of the wrong kind of behaviour, under the heading “theres noting to say I cant do it”…

 

K.S. Raven.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/DM6PR04MB66076CBA9EADFDAD7716E224A438A%40DM6PR04MB6607.namprd04.prod.outlook.com.

[Joseph Blanc]

That so much of the discussion has been people leaving or taking issue with its existence speaks to the necessity of this Charter. 

I too thought that this was implicit in our constitution, and yet it seems that not all agreed. Therefor, it must not remain implicit, and must be made explicit.

This bill has my full support.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/005601d9c147%24082ac600%2418805200%24%40gmail.com.

[Luci Luci]

We don't have charters for children, old people or women- all of which are much, much less protected classes. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aerican/005601d9c147%24082ac600%2418805200%24%40gmail.com.

[Joseph Blanc]

True, and perhaps we should have those too. That doesn't change that we should also have this charter

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[Joseph Blanc]

Actually, I wish to amend my prior statement. That's NOT true, but perhaps we should have those too. And that doesn't change the need for this charter.

--

Joseph

[Eric Lis]

We probably SHOULD have policies in effect for each of those, but I would argue that they are not less protected given the disproportionately high suicide and murder rates of trans individuals, as well as the large number of governments currently actively legislating against the rights of trans people. Not that there are no governments currently actively legislating away the rights of women, but they're relatively few.

Eric Lis MD.,CM.,FRCPC

Emperor of the Aerican Empire 

http://www.aericanempire.com/

"In the end, everything is a gag." 

Charlie Chaplin 

---

From: aer...@googlegroups.com <aer...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Luci Luci <brando...@gmail.com>
Sent: July 29, 2023 11:13 PM

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[Jonah Leventhal]

trans rights. anyone suddenly stricken w/ concern for other protected classes/associated strawmen should gauge interest & make their case in another thread.

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