How to check current keyword position

[Pierre Augereau]

Good Morning every one,

I have an issue with datas from MCM and the Api. 

With many keywords the average position and the estimate cost to be in the first page top, are not accurate.

I'm in first position with some keywords but the estimate cost to be in the first page top is almost twice higther than my actual cost.

And there is also the same problem in reverse way (the cost to be first is much more higther than the estimate one). 

So, I tried to used average position (in MCM and API) but, it's clearly not relevant because, it's just an average... 

Morever, as it said on the MCM bottom, 'Reports are not generated in real time. As a result, clicks and impressions in the last three hours may not have been counted' and that's applied to average position too.

Well, an average position from three hours late is not really helpfull to react in real time and set right cost for a keyword.

Also, have an average position equal to '0.0'... What does it mean ?? How do I know if my keyword is in right place with '0.0' ?? Maybe, my keyword is at the top of the first page, above the search bar ?? 

As i said before, I have those strange data from MCM and API.

I also tried to let 'Google' managed costs in automatic way... 20% more expensive and 10% less hit on all keywords... Not working either

As mommy always said : Trust does not exclude control ! 

So I used AdPreview to know where are my keywords... Just a few thousands keywords to check few times in a day... Such a great day is coming :/ 

Anyway, first call to AdPreview, OK. second, OK.... 40th call still OK .... 50th call still... wait for it... Oh my !!! An error 'Unusual traffic from your computer network' !! 

I resolve the reCaptcha and I keep going to check my keywords. After 10 more calls, reCaptcha again with a lot images to solved... really a lot -_- 

Here we go again to check my keywords... Not so long because 2 more calls a new error raised : 'We're sorry... but your query looks similar to automated requests from a computer virus or spyware application. To protect our users, we can't process your request right now...'

Ok... One hour later, still same message :s But don't worry I have many associates !! First associate, after almost 60 calls, IP burned too... Second one, same punishment... 10th associate... Well I do not have anymore associate :o 

To resume, I'm stuck with datas wich are not accurates from MCM and API, at least 10 IPs burned and no way to check my own keywords positions... Not really a good day after all :/

So, what is the way to check all my keywords positions, few times a day without burned all my IPs and all my time ??

Or do you have a service / API (free or not) to manage this kind of checking ? 

Thank you in advance ! 

[Bharani Cherukuri (AdWords API Team)]

Hello, 

As you mentioned, the report stats in AdWords are not real time and in most cases they are delayed by less than three hours. It is not possible to get the stats real time. If your reports have average position as zero, there will most likely be no impressions associated with that keywords. Please check a similar post on the product forum for reference. If that is not the case, could you share a sample AdGroupId and the KeywordId where you have this issue? 

Unfortunately, the only way to get stats via API is using the reports. Regarding your questions about AdPreview tool, could you please post on the Advertisers community forum and the product experts there might be able to guide you better. 

Regards,

Bharani, AdWords API Team

[Pierre Augereau]

Hello and thank you for your answers.

In most cases reports are delayed by less than three hours : I agree wit you but not for all datas. When you have some ads, with false clicks for example, even 5 hours after ending campaign many datas still changing...

Morever, for some keywords, I have to raise their cost a lot to stay at the top of the first page when concurrents launch their campaign. 

How I can be reactiv and professionnal if I can not control my own positions on my own keywords ?? 

By the way, to have a true and clean report, I almost need to call the 'yesterday' reports at 08 am... Even if I was Marty McFly with my Delorean, it seems to be complicated...

About the average position at zero, it is definitly because there is no impressions associated whit that keywords. 

But, in that case, how can be sure that my keywords are in the good positions with the right prices for the first user who will make an impression with that keyword ??

But something disturb me : After to saw a lot posts on this forum and others Goole forums, I'm not the only one to ask a way to have positions on real time.

At this time, there is no tool to do that and obviously, Google does not want to share this datas with their users who put some money on thoses keywords. 

My bad, it exist a way, AdPreview but, it's humanly impossible to check thousands keywords every days... And most of all if IPs address are burned after few calls....

I understand that Google does not want 'scrapping tools' to retrieve datas from their sites but, as we pay for those keywords, those keywords are also ours and we have the right to acceed at their datas at anytime.

If I said that, it's beacause we pay for a service and, except for pray that service works fine, no one have a way to control those datas until almost day + 1 ?? Is that right ? 

I will also post this question on the Advertisers community forum.

Again, thank you for your answers,

Best regards.

[Bharani Cherukuri (AdWords API Team)]

Hello, 

I will share your feedback with the team so that they can explore on any other possibilities for reporting this data. Please keep an eye out on our blog for more information on any upcoming releases or announcements. 

Regards,

Bharani, AdWords API Team

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 9:55:39 AM UTC-5, Pierre Augereau wrote:

[Pierre Augereau]

Hello,

Thank you for your time and for this sharing.

But for now I'm still stuck and no way to keep working correctly... 

As I saw on all forums, just the fact to want to ask 'keywords position in real time' seems to be the Devil himself :o :o 

In ours previous messages, we agreed on that MCM and reports from API are not accurates because there is delayed time (more or less important). So how to be reactif if I can not know where I am on Google Search on a specific time ?

Morover, an average position is also not accurate because it is an average. Example : 

- 1 hour and 10 impressions with positions 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2 => avr = 1,5 but those positions are good

- 1 hour and 10 impressions with positions 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 7 => avr = also 1,5 but even 1 hour later (with delayed time), you do not know that your keyword is gone from the top of the first page !

And I don't talk about keyword with no impression who have an average at 0.0... just need to wait the first impression and whish good luck to the keyword to be in a good position with the good price ?

At least, is there any way to automatcly interrogate 'Google Search' or 'Google AdPreview' to check my own keywords ??

And yes, I said automaticly because check thousands keywords, except to have an army of people, is humainly impossible.

Thank you again 

But please, give me a solution.

[Zweitze]

I understand that you want to see which keywords rank high, and which not?

I doubt you can get what you want. After all, your positions depend not only on your quality score and bid, but also on the quality score and bids of your competitor.

But more important: Do you realize that not every end user gets the same ads? Bid modifiers play an important rule here.
Assume one of your competitors sets a bid modifier on gender, eg. for women your competitor bids 300% of the original bid. Because of that, it is quite more likely that his ad will rank higher when a lady searches on that word. So, if you want to see how your keyword ranks, make sure for both men and women, and unknown (where Google doesn't know the gender of the user).
But that's not all. Say another competitor has an ad for an app install, and therefore only bids on mobile devices. So he sets a bid modifier on device type. So, apparently the device type is also an important factor on the ranking of your ads. Make sure you test all device types on which you can set a bid modifier. In fact you should test all possible combinations of gender and device type.
But that's not enough. You can also set bid modifiers on location. Not all locations are supported, you can only set bid modifiers for a few thousand locations.

You get the idea? You may think that all this doesn't apply to you because you don't use bid modifiers, but remember that your competitors may use them.

And that's not all, you can also set bid modifiers on time of day (or day of week). So if you notice a sudden drop or rise, it may be because one of your competitors used a bid modifier starting the past hour. And AdWords still knows more different bid modifiers...


You may want to rethink what you intend to achieve.


In your starting post you also mentioned the average position was sometimes 0. I have two different explanations for this:

1. Results on the display network. Google can't really determine where your ad was visible on the external website so they just report 0.
2. Shopping results. In Google shopping users can change the ordering (eg. by price, alphabetically on name etc.) meaning you don't have a real position.

[Pierre Augereau]

Hello and thank you for your answer and time

You are right, I want to check my keywords rank (position) to automaticly adjust BID by using the API.

I understand that the keyword cost can be different by gender, location, .... 

But, how to test each possibilty ? Because, I think the only one 'offical tool' is AdPreview and you can not put all that possibilities to run some test ? 

So, Google can do whatever it wants and nobody can check where is going our money ?? 

... 

... 

I'm kidding... Maybe not :p 

When you say that not every end users gets the same ads, I not fully agree with you. With the good keyword and the good targeting (ex : Location +  computers device Bid + 10 % for smartphone device), I assure you that every one will have your annonce ;) 

But, one more time, it is not working for every keywords.

Our campaing are targeting for ours clients needs. So we know location, gender kind and device type we need to target. Also, we check frequently ours annonces to be sure they have and keep the best quality scores possible. 

Of course, a competitor can raised his cost on a specific device and be better than us ! That's the game.

But, if a competitor wants to have a fight in my target area, it seems to be fair that I am the first to know and I can decide if I want to fight back or not ? However, at this moment, I will know it maybe one hour later... Can you imagine how many clics I will lose even if I have the money to directly put back my keyword in top positons by using Bid modifiers with the Api ?? 

About Bid modifier : As you certainly know, if you have a bid at 20€ on a keyword and your closest competitor (in second position) have put 10 €, Google will take you around 12€ by clic. But if you can check your position, you can also decrease your bid to be in the right position with the right price and just set a bid 10.10 € (1.90 € money saved by clic....)

About the average positons at 0, I know that is because those keywords do not have impression yet. 

But, again, it seems to be fair that I could know if I will be in a good rank on the first impression (I do not talk about Shopping result of course) 

Thank you again,

Regards

[Zweitze]

So it is about predicting the positions of your ads. You should realize that for every Google search, Google organizes an auction among all AdWords accounts. All qualifying accounts (which actually bid on that keyword or a variation, do not have that keyword excluded, got language settings right, with remaining budget etc.etc.) offer a bid.
Based on all bids and accompanying quality scores Google selects the top five or ten bids and shows their ads.

Now between two requests a lot can happen, eg. an account runs out of budget, an ad gets disapproved, a group is disabled by its campaign manager etc. In other words you cannot predict the next results.

About different users will not see the same ads: This is about bid modifiers! I am sure that users from Australia and US will get completely different ads when they look for "mortgage". In different cities you will get different results for "restaurant". You get the idea. You may say that your account does not use bid modifiers, but that does not mean that your competitors won't. In the end your ad positions will be affected by the bid modifiers of your competitors.

So, what do you do? Maybe trying to be #1 in every situation is not the best strategy after all, and you may like to look at different metrics. Consider taking that discussion to a generic AdWords forum.

[Pierre Augereau]

It is not about predicting. It is more if you can check your position periodicly, you can react as fast as you can. With a good home made sofware using the API to update bid, it is not so hard !! 

For the average position at 0, I agree, that might be considering as predicting but it is not. More you check your position, faster you can react.

However, as you said in previous message, competitors can use bid modifiers with time / day / gender / ... But, with good datas, good historics datas, good software and a way to check anytime you want, I think you can predict when some competitors starting their campaign. Anyway, it is an another subject.

In a period where markets act really fast, I don't understand why we do not have any tools (or the possibiliy to make one) who can 'analyse' and react as fast as possible ??!!! 

I agree with your exemple but, and it is certainly because my english is really bad, there is no targeting at all inside...

Take 'property sale', in Paris on one spécific district, targeting end user inside this location and those who make interest for this location, + 10% bid on smartphone, and of course the money... Et Voila !!! You are first and it's working.

Obviously, we don't have the same method to work with AdWords. I'm sure your method works but mine too. 

So yes, I want to be #1 the most of time (again, with a good and specific targeting) and if I can have a tool or a way to check my positions in real time, I'm pretty sure to reach my goal.

However, we are moving away from the original topic : 

- Datas from MCM and API are wrong (delayed time and, for example, estimated cost for top positions totaly wrong) and not accurate (average)

- Adpreview which is working fine but, it's humainly impossible to check all your keywords and your IP get blocked after, more or less, 60 calls more or less

- No way to control where your money go

Thank you,

Regards

[Josh Radcliff (AdWords API Team)]

Hi Pierre,

Have you considered using automated bidding strategies to accomplish your goals? For example, the PageOnePromotedBiddingScheme ("Target search page location") will automatically adjust your bids with the goal of showing your ad on the top of the page or on the first page of Google search results. You can read more details about the strategy in this AdWords Help Center article.

Cheers,

Josh, AdWords API Team

[Pierre Augereau]

Hello Josh and thank you for your answer.

Yes, I already tried to use automated bidding for few days. 

20% more expensive and 10% less clics on all keywords by using PAGE_ONE_PROMOTED option.

Regards

[Josh Radcliff (AdWords API Team)]

Hi Pierre,

When you ran your experiment, did you set any of the fields of PageOnePromotedBiddingScheme, such as the following?

1. bidCeiling
2. bidModifier
3. bidChangesForRaisesOnly
4. raiseBidWhenLowQualityScore
   

For example, if you had bidChangesForRaisesOnly set to true, then the strategy might be lowering your bids, which in turn could lead to fewer impressions. If you had raiseBidWhenLowQualityScore set to true, you could see increased costs from keywords that need improvement. Check out the Help Center article on the bidding scheme for more details.

Also, you mentioned fewer clicks. Did you also see fewer impressions, and was your AveragePosition better or worse than when you manually manage bids?

Thanks,

Josh, AdWords API Team