RE: [EdForum] Digest for adventistedforum@googlegroups.com - 12 Messages in 1 Topic
Chris Larson
I am disappointed that you don’t seem to see the churches point of view on this. And the hidden statement that you are making about your own teaching/school. (if God’s school is not good enough for your children …..)
In His Service,
G. Chris Larson
Teacher K-6, Principal
Kohala Mission School
From: adventis...@googlegroups.com [mailto:adventis...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 1:49 AM
To: Digest Recipients
Subject: [EdForum] Digest for adventis...@googlegroups.com - 12 Messages in 1 Topic
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/adventistedforum/topics
§ Limited by Homeschooling [12 Updates]
SDA Educator <sdaed...@gmail.com> Apr 04 07:56PM -0700
I have been an Adventist teacher for 15 years. I have had children for
9 of those years. When my wife and I got married we had made the
decision to homeschool our children. For the last 3 years, especially
this year, several people have become very "concerned" of how our
homeschooling reflects on the school I teach at. I had put out some
resumes 3 years ago and recieved calls and requests for interviews
from 9 different schools. After recieving the invites and before I
accepted the interview I let them know that we have chosen to
homeschool our children. All 9 of those schools responded that I could
not work at the school unless my children were there.
I just had a discussion with a school board member tonight. Because
our school is struggling, there are many that feel that I should put
my kids in, or leave. I responded by saying that it looks like I will
have to teach at a public school in order to homeschool my children
without harassment.
I am a first generation adventist and very discouraged from what I am
experiencing here.
<mbagge...@kc.rr.com> Apr 05 01:18PM
Wow, that just isn't right at all. I also homeschool my kids and have had pressure to put my kids in our small Adventist school. I once knew a Pastor who pastored the Church where the school is at. He had 2 children and his wife homeschooled. They told him he needed to put his kids in the school, same situation as yours. He ended up leaving and is pastoring in another state and still homeschooling as far as I know. I'm sorry you are going through this. I will pray everything works out for you.
Benjamin Thompson <benjam...@gmail.com> Apr 05 07:53AM -0700
Take courage. Scripture tells us that Mary homeschooled Christ. His
knowledge of scripture at age 12 confounded the "church Scool teachers" of
His day. I encourage you to take this up with your superintendent; this is
another source of wisdom and guidance. Where I taught at an academy, we
chose not to put our child in the local church school. Discussing our
concerns and motivations for that choice with our superintendent greatly
smoothed things over. His guidance was helpful and encouraging.
If there are other homeschoolers in the area, you may be able to create an
umbrella group through the church school, which might alleviate some of the
pressure.
God Bless you and keep you in this hour of struggle.
On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 9:56:04 PM UTC-5, SDA Educator wrote:
Richardcarey1 <richar...@cs.com> Apr 05 01:26PM -0400
You should not be depressed. You made a choice. Of course, there are sometimes consequences to our choices. One should NOT expect to be paid to teach church school when you do not support the church school with your kids. I taught my kids all the way through academy but did have a problem when the pastor did not choose church school. I applaud your choice but live understanding the implications of that choice. I do not throw stones at your choice but would not hire you until you decide to support the school with your kids.
Sent from my iPhone
TOM OLANG <olan...@yahoo.com> Apr 05 10:07AM -0700
Dear friends,
I am surprised that school management has the audacity to compell you to have your children in the very school where you teach, against your will. I am also an Adventist teacher and church member but we don't go through such unfortunate incidences in Kenya
where I teach. Here, you will only forgo the so-called education assistance if your child is not in an Adventist institution. They can learn in any school on planet Earth
, even at home as long as you don't bother management with school fees issues.
I think rationality is prudent. Sorry brother, but there are some issues that make denominational service so challenging, and, I dare say, unattractive. We too have our challenges, some of which give us sleepless nights but that is ,perhaps, the cost of disciplieship, or is it?
Tom Olang'
Nairobi, kenya
--- On Thu, 4/5/12, mbagge...@kc.rr.com <mbagge...@kc.rr.com> wrote:
From: mbagge...@kc.rr.com <mbagge...@kc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [EdForum] Limited by Homeschooling
To: adventis...@googlegroups.com
Cc: "SDA Educator" <sdaed...@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 6:18 AM
Wow, that just isn't right at all. I also homeschool my kids and have had pressure to put my kids in our small Adventist school. I once knew a Pastor who pastored the Church where the school is at. He had 2 children and his wife homeschooled. They told him he needed to put his kids in the school, same situation as yours. He ended up leaving and is pastoring in another state and still homeschooling as far as I know. I'm sorry you are going through this. I will pray everything works out for you.
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Mel Wade <m...@melwade.com> Apr 05 02:05PM -0400
Maybe this parable will help....
I am a sales manager for Ford. It is my job to tell how good Ford products
are. Part of my job is to talk to visit XYZ Corporation and convince them
to buy Ford for the fleet of cars and truck instead of the Chevys they have
been buying for years. I relish the challenge and have a great meeting
with their fleet manager and VP of Purchasing. They are excited about the
advantages that Ford can give them. I have been convincing! I feel ready
to close the sale. I decide to take them to dinner and a fancy restraunt
to seal the deal. They accept my invitation and we walk out of their
corporate headquarters to the parking lot and I open the door of my luxury
SUV to give them a ride to dinner and they get suddenly stop with puzzled
looks on their faces. Without saying a word, they both turn on their heals
and leave me standing by the open door of my Cadilac Escalade. The next
day I am fired.
I think Richard summed it up accurately. You should be proud of your
choice but realize that it will be hard to sell one product while you use
another.
Mel Wade
*“In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the knowers
will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no
longer exists. ” *Eric Hoffer
http://www.melwade.com
kurt kaufman <kurtk...@yahoo.com> Apr 05 05:14PM -0700
Welcome to the world of mix signals. You are being told be a church whose founder encouraged home schooling yet because of your calling to teach has put you in a situation where you can't live your choice. An option that I help create for parents was to offer the homeschoolers the opportunity to attend for electives like music, art, and p.e. and computers. They paid a percentage of tuition yet homeschooled for the core classes. This relieved some of the "concerns" I do agree though that it is hard to be taken seriously as a teacher in a school that you have chosen not to support with your own children. Over the years we were put in situations where we were forced to consider pulling our kids from church school because of the treatment they were getting from their teachers because I was either a teacher or Principal in the system. Catch 22 decide which is best for your family cause in the end the church isn't going to care one way or the other
what happens to you.
Kurt Kaufman
"THEY DON'T CARE WHAT YOU KNOW UNTIL THEY KNOW YOU CARE"
________________________________
From: SDA Educator <sdaed...@gmail.com>
To: Adventist Education Forum <adventis...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:56 PM
Subject: [EdForum] Limited by Homeschooling
I have been an Adventist teacher for 15 years. I have had children for
9 of those years. When my wife and I got married we had made the
decision to homeschool our children. For the last 3 years, especially
this year, several people have become very "concerned" of how our
homeschooling reflects on the school I teach at. I had put out some
resumes 3 years ago and recieved calls and requests for interviews
from 9 different schools. After recieving the invites and before I
accepted the interview I let them know that we have chosen to
homeschool our children. All 9 of those schools responded that I could
not work at the school unless my children were there.
I just had a discussion with a school board member tonight. Because
our school is struggling, there are many that feel that I should put
my kids in, or leave. I responded by saying that it looks like I will
have to teach at a public school in order to homeschool my children
without harassment.
I am a first generation adventist and very discouraged from what I am
experiencing here.
--
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CC <chca...@gmail.com> Apr 05 06:06PM -0700
First in the area of full disclosure and perhaps where my perspective comes
from, I am currently serve as principal of a Pre-K – 12 Adventist school
and have worked in most areas of the Adventist K-12 education system.
Some great things have been said so by both Mel and Richard. I have always
believed that if I can’t support the school where I’m working, I shouldn’t
be teaching there. Unfortunately, that caused me to make one of the most
difficult decisions in my entire career where I left one school because I
could not support what was happening there. (Those who know me please don’t
try to guess where this was!J)
SDA Educator, you have chosen a career of ministry as a teacher in an
Adventist School and I assume you believe you are called to this ministry.
At the same time working in this ministry is how you support your family,
providing shelter and food, etc. for them. I don’t know the size of the
school you are teaching, but if you are like many Adventist teachers, it is
a small school. Most of these schools struggle to pay the cost of their
teachers and other operating expenses and many church members are giving
sacrificially to keep the school operating. In short, they need as many
students as possible to make their school a reality. This may sound like a
“money “ thing for the school, but remember, if they can’t pay for their
teachers, you don’t have a job there and the rest of the students are not
able to receive the benefits of an Adventist Education where you have been
called minister.
Now, add to this the need for ALL teachers to help recruit and promote the
school. What message are you giving to the parents in your ministry group
when you indicate by your decisions with your own children’s education that
you don’t believe in your ministry? As a side note, the issue of where you
educate your children is not just an Adventist Education issue; it is a
common policy in many private schools!
SDA Educator, you have the right to homeschool your children. I commend you
for the dedication and commitment of time this takes to do this correctly
and provide them with quality home schooling. I also commend you for
disclosing to the nine schools where you interviewed, your position in this
area. That was the right thing to do! However, I take issue with chastising
the system when these boards or conferences look at their overall education
ministry in their communities and realize that this combination won’t work.
You may be the very best, dedicated Adventist Educator, but it may not be a
fit.
I would suggest you either find a school that will accept you teaching for
them while you homeschool your children, and fortunately, it sounds like
Benjamin can give you some suggestions of where these schools are located.
If you are unable to find such a position, please follow your convictions
with your children and if necessary, continue your education ministry in
another venue or type of school until your children are past this time in
their lives. Your children are the most important thing God has entrusted
to you – even more important than your working ministry – so continue to
make them your first priority!
On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 9:56:04 PM UTC-5, SDA Educator wrote:
Ed Lyons <roya...@gmail.com> Apr 05 02:40PM -0800
I see where the original poster and Mel are coming from. Years ago I was
principal and my daughter was in 3rd grade. We both were in the school for
3 years, but then my daughter encountered some developmental issues and
after a long struggle I decided homeschooling was her only option for the
next year(s) until she was ready for school again. The board did not see it
that way and presented Mel's analogy. I had to resign.
Personally, I have no regrets, but for our educational system I have deep
disappointment. The underlying assumption and question is this: *Am I a
Ford salesman for the company or am I transportation minister for the
people?*
I long for the day when the local and global church will take the attitude
(and put it into action/programs) where the teacher is a minister/counselor
to help each parent find the best solution for their children. One year
that might be church school, the next year might be homeschool, the next
year might be a half and half, or SDA remote education, or.... You see
where I am going with this?
Like salesman, we often (not always) are out for the $$ and for the
institution. The people are second.
I am not saying to get rid of the institution, far from it. We desperately
need it, but I want to see its priorities and programs improve.
My two cents and my sympathies to those caught in between.
Ed Lyons
Benjamin Thompson <benjam...@gmail.com> Apr 05 08:48PM -0500
While I appreciate the necessity of brand loyalty in a company's employees,
particularly the sales staff, I must point out two important places where
this analogy breaks down.
First, teachers aren't necessarily sales staff. There are some similar
aspects and responsibilities in the work of an Adventist educator, but the
main goals are education and a knowledge of Christ unto salvation. Meeting
those goals will drive enrollment much better than "salesmanship" on the
part of Adventist school teachers. But more than that, these goals are not
met exclusively by Adventist Education, which brings me to the second
point.
Some children have needs that may not be met in the local church school.
Adventist Educators, for example, in a one room school may not have any
training in how to work with special needs students. Even if the teacher
has the training, in a one room school, a special needs student will
require nearly all of the teacher's attention, which will cause the other
students' education to suffer from inadequate attention. In such
circumstances, home school or some other option will better meet the needs
of that student. The role of the student's parent has no bearing on such a
situation. Therefore, an Adventist Educator whose child is not enrolled in
the local church school is not necessarily the same as a Ford salesman who
drives a Cadillac.
To draw a parallel, a Porsche salesman who takes a large group of clients
on a Boeing jet is not likely to be in danger of losing the sale or her job
because Porsche doesn't make aircraft. Just so, the local church school
may not offer a solution to meet the needs of all the students in the area.
Most importantly, it is up to that student's parent to make that choice.
It is most definitely not up to the local church board or constituency to
make that decision. Whether that child's parent happens to be the local
church pastor or school teacher, a local church member or simply a local
community member is entirely irrelevant. Parents have the responsibility
and authority to make sure their children receive the best education
available. That responsibility does not fall to the local church school
board nor its constituents. That authority cannot and must not be usurped
by the local church school board nor its constituents.
On Thursday, April 5, 2012, Mel Wade wrote:
CC <chca...@gmail.com> Apr 05 06:56PM -0700
I believe you are certainly correct with the special needs area. I have
been on several board where a request has come from a parent/teacher and
have seen these boards make exceptions in light of these needs. I see that
as a unique item and nothing was mentioned about children with special
needs in the original post.
On Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:48:12 PM UTC-5, Benjamin Thompson wrote:
Sam Nkana <asn...@hotmail.com> Apr 06 08:20AM
I have read your comments and empathize with those who claim to be circumstantial victims. I also read about the analogy of the Ford vs a Cadillac. I strongly believe that everyone has a choice to do what he or she is convicted to do. I also appreciate pastors who make decisions to go somewhere else when demanded to put their children in the schools where they are pastoring. However, I do question the motives of the so-called adventist teachers who choose to homeschool their children, yet teach other people's children in an adventist institutions, but yet the institutions are not good enough for their children. As an educator, I humbly ask these teachers to explain why they talk from both sides of their mouths? Please note that I am not challenging anyone's decision to homeschool his or her children, however I do ask why they teach in the same institutions where they feel are not good enough for their children. Realistically speaking, I feel that this forum, on this particular issue should come to a stop. We need to occupy our time with something more tangible, than to deal with the "rain" we call on ourselves. Finally, we will all have to make our bed and sleep in them. Best wishes as you all try to preach one thing, but do quite the opposite.
Sam Nkana, Ph.D.
Professor of Journalism & Communication,
Specialist in Media Literacy Education,
Curriculum & Instruction.
(423)503-5286
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 18:56:58 -0700
From: chca...@gmail.com
To: adventis...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [EdForum] Limited by Homeschooling
I believe you are certainly correct with the special needs area. I have been on several board where a request has come from a parent/teacher and have seen these boards make exceptions in light of these needs. I see that as a unique item and nothing was mentioned about children with special needs in the original post.
On Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:48:12 PM UTC-5, Benjamin Thompson wrote:While I appreciate the necessity of brand loyalty in a company's employees, particularly the sales staff, I must point out two important places where this analogy breaks down. First, teachers aren't necessarily sales staff. There are some similar aspects and responsibilities in the work of an Adventist educator, but the main goals are education and a knowledge of Christ unto salvation. Meeting those goals will drive enrollment much better than "salesmanship" on the part of Adventist school teachers. But more than that, these goals are not met exclusively by Adventist Education, which brings me to the second point.
Some children have needs that may not be met in the local church school. Adventist Educators, for example, in a one room school may not have any training in how to work with special needs students. Even if the teacher has the training, in a one room school, a special needs student will require nearly all of the teacher's attention, which will cause the other students' education to suffer from inadequate attention. In such circumstances, home school or some other option will better meet the needs of that student. The role of the student's parent has no bearing on such a situation. Therefore, an Adventist Educator whose child is not enrolled in the local church school is not necessarily the same as a Ford salesman who drives a Cadillac.
To draw a parallel, a Porsche salesman who takes a large group of clients on a Boeing jet is not likely to be in danger of losing the sale or her job because Porsche doesn't make aircraft. Just so, the local church school may not offer a solution to meet the needs of all the students in the area.
Most importantly, it is up to that student's parent to make that choice. It is most definitely not up to the local church board or constituency to make that decision. Whether that child's parent happens to be the local church pastor or school teacher, a local church member or simply a local community member is entirely irrelevant. Parents have the responsibility and authority to make sure their children receive the best education available. That responsibility does not fall to the local church school board nor its constituents. That authority cannot and must not be usurped by the local church school board nor its constituents.
On Thursday, April 5, 2012, Mel Wade wrote:
Maybe this parable will help.... I am a sales manager for Ford. It is my job to tell how good Ford products are. Part of my job is to talk to visit XYZ Corporation and convince them to buy Ford for the fleet of cars and truck instead of the Chevys they have been buying for years. I relish the challenge and have a great meeting with their fleet manager and VP of Purchasing. They are excited about the advantages that Ford can give them. I have been convincing! I feel ready to close the sale. I decide to take them to dinner and a fancy restraunt to seal the deal. They accept my invitation and we walk out of their corporate headquarters to the parking lot and I open the door of my luxury SUV to give them a ride to dinner and they get suddenly stop with puzzled looks on their faces. Without saying a word, they both turn on their heals and leave me standing by the open door of my Cadilac Escalade. The next day I am fired.
I think Richard summed it up accurately. You should be proud of your choice but realize that it will be hard to sell one product while you use another.Mel Wade
“In times of change the learners will inherit the earth, while the knowers will find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. ” Eric Hoffer
http://www.melwade.com
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