vidyA-smriti post-jnAna

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Hari Om,

In Naishkarmya Siddhi 1.38, the following discussion occurs:

Opponent: Samyak-jnAna arises from pramANa, and non-samyak-jnAna arises from non-pramANa. Samyak-jnAna is more powerful as compared to non-samyak-jnAna. Still, it must be accepted that this samyak-jnAna is sublated by non-samyak-jnAna.

SiddhAntI: How is this being claimed?

Objection: See. Kartritva-bhOktritva-rAga-dvesha etc are dvaita-pratyaya (dualistic thoughts). These are born of ignorance. It is seen that these dvaita-pratyaya arise even in those persons who have samyak-jnAna. Now, samyak-jnAna is contradictory to these dvaita-pratyaya. So, it must be accepted that samyak-jnAna is sublated because if samyak-jnAna is not sublated in such persons, then how can contradictory dvaita-pratyaya arise in them? So, it must be accepted that even in such persons who have samyak-jnAna, this samyak-jnAna is sublated by non-samyak-jnAna.

SiddhAntI: Not so. Ignorance (non-samyak-jnAna) has already been sublated by samyak-jnAna. So, how can already-sublated-ignorance sublate samyak-jnAna?

Opponent: Fine. But it can be argued that these dvaita-pratyaya themselves sublate samyak-jnAna.

SiddhAntI: Not so. The dvaita-pratyaya (kartritva-bhOktritva-rAga-dvesha etc ) arising subsequent to samyak-jnAna cannot sublate samyak-jnAna either. 

Opponent: Why cannot dvaita-pratyaya sublate samyak-jnAna?

SiddhAntI: See, vidyA (samyak-jnAna) is sublator of avidyA. There are samskAra of this vidyA also. And from these samskAra, there are pratyaya (thoughts). These pratyaya which are bAdhaka-vidyA-samskAra-janita-pratyaya are more powerful to these dvaita-pratyaya. They sublate the dvaita-pratyaya. And hence samyak-jnAna remains intact. It is not sublated.

Or else, these dvaita-pratyaya are nothing but dvaita-smriti born out of avidyA-vAsanA. There can be no sublation of vidyA by dvaita-smriti.

Takeaway:

Contrary-pratyaya arise post-jnAna. RAga-dvesha do arise post-jnAna (for exhaustion of prArabdha). It is erroneous to think that post-jnAna, there will only be pious and pure thoughts. There can be rAga, there can be dvesha even post-jnAna. The point is - they are understood to be illusory. They are understood to be like mirage. They are ignored. The vidyA-samskAra-janita-pratyaya negate such dvaita-pratyaya. And the self-abidance of jnAnI is not affected. 

Reference:

ननु बलवदपि सम्यग्ज्ञानं सदप्रमाणोत्थेनाऽसम्यग्ज्ञानेन बाध्यमानमुपलभामहे । यत उत्पन्नपरमार्थबोधस्याऽपि कर्तृत्वभोक्तृत्वरागद्वेषाद्यनवबोधोत्थप्रत्यया आविर्भवन्ति । न ह्यबाधिते सम्यग्ज्ञाने -तद्विरुद्धानां प्रत्ययानां सम्भवोऽस्ति । 

नैतदेवम् । कुतः-

 
बाधितत्वादविद्याया विद्यां सा नैव बाधते ।

तद्वासना निमित्तत्वं यान्ति विद्यास्मृतेर्धवम् ॥ ३८ ॥ 

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Chitsukhacharya''s commentary:

यदुक्तम् “बलवद्धि प्रमाणोत्थम्' इति, तत्रानुभवविरोधमाशङ्कते — नन्विति । तावता कथं बाधोऽवगम्यत इति, अत आह—न हीति । बाधितस्य बाधकत्वानुपपत्तेर्मैवमिति परिहरति—नैतदेवमिति । अस्तु तर्हि बाधककालादुत्तरकालमुत्पन्नद्वैतप्रत्ययैः विद्याया बाध इत्याशङ्क्य तस्मिन्नपि काले बाधकविद्यासंस्कारजनितप्रत्ययानां बलवत्वात्तेषामेवैतत्प्रत्ययबाधकत्वोपपत्तेर्मैवमिति परिहरति — तद्वासना इति । यद्वा तद्वासनेत्यविद्यावासनाः कथ्यन्ते। अत्रापि स्मृतिं विदुषो जनयन्ति । तेन विद्याया न द्वैतस्मृतिभिरपि बाध इत्यर्थः॥३८॥

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BrihadAraNyaka BhAshya

यत्तूक्तं विपरीतप्रत्ययतत्कार्ययोश्च दर्शनादिति, न, तच्छेषस्थितिहेतुत्वात् — येन कर्मणा शरीरमारब्धं तत् , विपरीतप्रत्ययदोषनिमित्तत्वात् तस्य तथाभूतस्यैव विपरीतप्रत्ययदोषसंयुक्तस्य फलदाने सामर्थ्यमिति, यावत् शरीरपातः तावत्फलोपभोगाङ्गतया विपरीतप्रत्ययं रागादिदोषं च तावन्मात्रमाक्षिपत्येव — मुक्तेषुवत् प्रवृत्तफलत्वात् तद्धेतुकस्य कर्मणः । 

Regards.

Sudhanshu Shekhar.

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

Takeaway:

 

Contrary-pratyaya arise post-jnAna. RAga-dvesha do arise post-jnAna (for exhaustion of prArabdha). It is erroneous to think that post-jnAna, there will only be pious and pure thoughts. There can be rAga, there can be dvesha even post-jnAna. The point is - they are understood to be illusory. They are understood to be like mirage. They are ignored. The vidyA-samskAra-janita-pratyaya negate such dvaita-pratyaya. And the self-abidance of jnAnI is not affected. 

 

Ø     In paramArtha jnAni there is rAga dvesha and it is erroneious to think that he is free from these anishta-s in post-jnAna period, he is not pure and pious in his thoughts and he can still entertain (like any normal mortal) rAga-dvesha.  In short, a paramArtha jnAni, identifies himself with his own set of BMI and he is still a pramAtru, kartru, bhOktru, a custodian of rAga-dvesha but they are ignored as bhrAnti even though he himself is NOT free from rAga-dvesha!! 

Ø    I am marking my observation as well as socalled ‘takeaway’ (purport) of this NS, to get the opinions of some others as well who are familiar with bhagavatpAda works.  Did bhAshyakAra advocate jnAni’s rAga-dvesha??  Did bhAshyakAra anywhere say : rAga-dvesha DO ARISE post jnAna??  Did bhAshyakAra anywhere clarify that ‘it is erroneous to think that paramArtha jnAni only entertain pious and pure thoughts??  Did anywhere bhAshyakAra anywhere say that in paramArtha jnAni (who is nothing but brahman, brahma vit brahmaiva bhavati) there can be rAga-dvesha!!?? 

 

Dear Sri Sudhanshu prabhuji, you can just hold back your justification/further clarification a little while till I get the opinion from others. Especially from @Venkatraghavan S or @V Subrahmanian.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

 

[V Subrahmanian]

Dear Sudhanshu ji,

Nicely stated position of the Vedanta on this topic.  

//Takeaway:

 

Contrary-pratyaya arise post-jnAna. RAga-dvesha do arise post-jnAna (for exhaustion of prArabdha). It is erroneous to think that post-jnAna, there will only be pious and pure thoughts. There can be rAga, there can be dvesha even post-jnAna. The point is - they are understood to be illusory. They are understood to be like mirage. They are ignored. The vidyA-samskAra-janita-pratyaya negate such dvaita-pratyaya. And the self-abidance of jnAnI is not affected. //

This is approved by Swami Vidyaranya too in the Jivanmukti viveka.  One can read here:

https://archive.org/details/YogaEnlightenmentAndPerfection/page/n193/mode/2up

on p.185, 186 and 187 that gives the position of Shankara in the Brihadaranyaka Bhashya and Vidyaranya. with English translation. 

Apart from that, we have Shankara accepting post-jnana samskara:

Shankara says in the BSB 4.1.15:

बाधितमपि तु मिथ्याज्ञानं द्विचन्द्रज्ञानवत्संस्कारवशात्कंचित्कालमनुवर्तत एव ।

(The mithyAjnana, the false ignorance, even though is sublated by right knowledge, will indeed continue for a period of time, like the perception of double-moon, owing to latent impressions - samskara.)  

In the Bh.Gita bhashya:   5.13:

सर्वकर्माणि मनसा संन्यस्यास्ते सुखं वशी ।

नवद्वारे पुरे देही नैव कुर्वन्न कारयन् ॥ १३ ॥

(The embodied man of self-control, having given up all actions mentally, continues happily in the town of nine gates, without doing or causing (others) to do anything at all.)

The relevant part of the Bhashya:

उत्पन्नविवेकज्ञानस्य सर्वकर्मसंन्यासिनोऽपि गेहे इव देहे एव नवद्वारे पुरे आसनम् प्रारब्धफलकर्मसंस्कारशेषानुवृत्त्या देह एव विशेषविज्ञानोत्पत्तेः । 

Even in the case of one in whom has arisen discriminating wisdom and who has renounced all actions, there can be, like staying in a house, the continuance in the body itself-the town with nine gates-as a consequence of the persistence of the remnants of the results of past actions which have started bearing fruit, because the awareness of being distinct (from the body) arises while one is in the body itself. 

regards

subbu

 

 

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[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Subbu prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

No surprise at all as you have endorsed the below takeaway 😊  But for the better understanding of your position and for more clarity be specific from the below takeaway points you are also accepting the following as authentic teaching of Advaita about paramArtha jnAni :

 

//quote// In paramArtha jnAni there is rAga dvesha and it is erroneous to think that he is free from these anishta-s in post-jnAna period, he is not pure and pious in his thoughts and he can still entertain (like any normal mortal) rAga-dvesha.  In short, a paramArtha jnAni, identifies himself with his own set of BMI and he is still a pramAtru, kartru, bhOktru, a custodian of rAga-dvesha but they are ignored as bhrAnti even though he himself is NOT free from rAga-dvesha!!  //unquote//

 

It is also to be noted this is not about mere continuation of socalled jnAni’s individual BMI, it is also about he is having the rAga-dvesha due to identification with his ‘own’ BMI. 

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

 

 

 

//Takeaway:

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Subbu ji.

Thanks for the references. In srishTi-drishTi-vAda, this is the standard framework accepted in bhAshya. The logic given by AchArya is very clear in BUB 1.4.10. rAga-dvesha arise in jnAnI only for exhaustion of prArabdha. This is required because this body itself is a product of such viparIta-pratyaya-dOsha. Therefore, the prArabdha can fructify only if it is coupled with rAga-dvesha and other such viparIta-pratyaya-dOsha.

Other than exhaustion of prArabdha, there is no occasion for rAga-dvesha to arise in a jnAnI.

Hare Krishna Bhaskar prabhu ji.

I would just like to comment on your statement:

//quote// In paramArtha jnAni there is rAga dvesha and it is erroneous to think that he is free from these anishta-s in post-jnAna period, he is not pure and pious in his thoughts and he can still entertain (like any normal mortal) rAga-dvesha.  In short, a paramArtha jnAni, identifies himself with his own set of BMI and he is still a pramAtru, kartru, bhOktru, a custodian of rAga-dvesha but they are ignored as bhrAnti even though he himself is NOT free from rAga-dvesha!!  //unquote//

1. rAga-dvesha appear in jnAnI for exhausation of prArabdha and for no other purpose. Barring the exhaustion of prArabdha, there is no occasion for rAga-dvesha to occur. So, it is not correct to say that jnAnI is not free from rAga-dvesha.

2. Purity and piousness is the default mode of jnAnI. However, for exhausation of prArabdha, rAga-dvesha and viparIta-pratyaya do arise. It is wrong to equate such a jnAnI with an ajnAnI, a normal mortal, who indulges in rAga and dvesha.

3. Even when rAga-dvesha appear as an enabling feature for exhaustion of prArabdha, jnAnI does not indulge in them. Rather he unerstands their illusory nature. He is situated as the seer of rAga-dvesha.

4. jnAnI is not kartA, bhOktA, pramAtA. He is the drashtA. He sees dispassionately whatever is appearing before him. He sees not only the rAga, dvesha, but also the absence thereof.

Further comment:

rAga-dvesha are seen. jnAnI situates as the seer (Brahm ved Brahm eva bhavati). jnAnI understands that these seen are vikAra and asat and they appear falsely like a mirage (GitA 2.16).

Regards.

Sudhanshu Shekhar.

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Hare Krishna

 

Sorry I don’t have enough time to counter this in detail.  As per me, if you argue when jnAni sees this as Vishaya and he is vishayi, then there is no need to emphasize that he is NOT completely pious / pure and he is having rAga-dvesha etc.  It definitely not the Advaita siddhAnta.  The jnAni is the one who realizes that his svarUpa is nitya, Shuddha, buddha and mukta, In that bhUma sthiti he exclaims in ecstasy : na me dhvesha raagau na me lobha mohua na me vai madho naiva maathsarya bhaavaH na dharmo na chArtho na kAmo na mokshaH chidAnanda rUpaH shivohaM shivohaM.  His actions without attachment, his vision is equal vision, even he appears engaging himself in activities outwardly he is always detached himself from dehAtma pratyaya buddhi, so no question of rAga-dvesha in him. He is paripUrNa…there is not even an iota of anishta-s like rAga-dvesha. 

 

Will say something more whenever I get free time.

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Hare Krishna.

A Sanskrit version of the original post is published at

https://sanskritsudhanshushekhar.wordpress.com/2025/09/09/%e0%a4%9c%e0%a5%8d%e0%a4%9e%e0%a4%be%e0%a4%a8%e0%a5%8b%e0%a4%a4%e0%a5%8d%e0%a4%a4%e0%a4%b0%e0%a4%95%e0%a4%be%e0%a4%b2%e0%a5%87-%e0%a4%b5%e0%a4%bf%e0%a4%a6%e0%a5%8d%e0%a4%af%e0%a4%be%e0%a4%b8%e0%a5%8d/

Learned members may like to see the post and apprise about the grammatical errors, if any. Sanskrit learning is an ongoing process for me. I will be very grateful to the learned members for citing corrections. I am not posting the content here as "advaitin" group is primarily an English group. I wonder if a "Sanskrit-advaitin" google-group should or could be started!

Regards.

Sudhanshu Shekhar.

[V Subrahmanian]

On Tue, Sep 9, 2025 at 3:34 PM 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin <adva...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

praNAms Hare Krishna

 

Sorry I don’t have enough time to counter this in detail.  As per me, if you argue when jnAni sees this as Vishaya and he is vishayi, then there is no need to emphasize that he is NOT completely pious / pure and he is having rAga-dvesha etc.  It definitely not the Advaita siddhAnta.  The jnAni is the one who realizes that his svarUpa is nitya, Shuddha, buddha and mukta, In that bhUma sthiti he exclaims in ecstasy : na me dhvesha raagau na me lobha mohua na me vai madho naiva maathsarya bhaavaH na dharmo na chArtho na kAmo na mokshaH chidAnanda rUpaH shivohaM shivohaM. 

Bhaskar ji,

The above declaration in the Nirvana Shatkam you cite means: in me the Atma these are not there. It's from that point of view alone the earlier verses say: I am not the mind, the intellect, the chitta, ahankara, etc. I am not the body made of pancha bhutas, etc.  So, This is not about the possible sanskaras of the Jnani during the post-jnana pre-death period.  

Please open the link  https://archive.org/details/YogaEnlightenmentAndPerfection/page/n195/mode/2up   and see what Shankara says in the Brihadaranyaka Bhashya, given with translation there: p. 186 and 187.  Shankara gives the analogy of: a person who is well aware of the directions (south, east, etc.) can at times be deluded about them (like taking the west for east, etc.).  Shankara says recollections, smriti, from the pre-jnana state can occur to him in the post-jnana state too.   

This is from the Brihadaranyaka 1.4.10 bhashya.  You can see the translation in the above link.  

 किञ्च न च विपरीतप्रत्ययो विद्यावत उत्पद्यते, निर्विषयत्वात् — अनवधृतविषयविशेषस्वरूपं हि सामान्यमात्रमाश्रित्य विपरीतप्रत्यय उत्पद्यमान उत्पद्यते, यथा शुक्तिकायां रजतमिति ; स च विषयविशेषावधारणवतो अशेषविपरीतप्रत्ययाशयस्योपमर्दितत्वात् न पूर्ववत्सम्भवति, शुक्तिकादौ सम्यक्प्रत्ययोत्पत्तौ पुनरदर्शनात् । क्वचित्तु विद्यायाः पूर्वोत्पन्नविपरीतप्रत्ययजनितसंस्कारेभ्यो विपरीतप्रत्ययावभासाः स्मृतयो जायमाना विपरीतप्रत्ययभ्रान्तिम् अकस्मात् कुर्वन्ति — यथा विज्ञातदिग्विभागस्याप्यकस्माद्दिग्विपर्ययविभ्रमः । 

warm regards

subbu

 

 

His actions without attachment, his vision is equal vision, even he appears engaging himself in activities outwardly he is always detached himself from dehAtma pratyaya buddhi, so no question of rAga-dvesha in him. He is paripUrNa…there is not even an iota of anishta-s like rAga-dvesha. 

 

Will say something more whenever I get free time.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

 

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Bhaskarji,

We have to remember that the true Jnani is 'Sthitaprajna', i.e., who is steady in his Jnana, all the time.

Best wishes

skb

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[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

We have to remember that the true Jnani is 'Sthitaprajna', i.e., who is steady in his Jnana, all the time.

 

Ø     Yes he is absolutely free from these adversaries.  veetaraagabhayakrOdhA manmayA mAm upAshritAH, bahavO jnAnatapasA pUtA madbhAvamAgatAH says lord Krishna…pasting rAga-dvesha to paramArtha jnAni is as good as pasting these anishtA-s to paramAtma coz.  paramArtha jnAni in his svarUpa paramAtma only as he has the svarUpa jnAna i.e. ahaM brahmAsmi.

[Bhaskar YR]

 

Sorry I don’t have enough time to counter this in detail.  As per me, if you argue when jnAni sees this as Vishaya and he is vishayi, then there is no need to emphasize that he is NOT completely pious / pure and he is having rAga-dvesha etc.  It definitely not the Advaita siddhAnta.  The jnAni is the one who realizes that his svarUpa is nitya, Shuddha, buddha and mukta, In that bhUma sthiti he exclaims in ecstasy : na me dhvesha raagau na me lobha mohua na me vai madho naiva maathsarya bhaavaH na dharmo na chArtho na kAmo na mokshaH chidAnanda rUpaH shivohaM shivohaM. 

 

praNAms Sri Subbu prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

The above declaration in the Nirvana Shatkam you cite means: in me the Atma these are not there.

 

• And who is telling / realizing this ??  is it not paramArtha jnAni??  is he not Atma svarUpa??  Has he not got the advayAtma darshana?? 

 

 

It's from that point of view alone the earlier verses say: I am not the mind, the intellect, the chitta, ahankara, etc. I am not the body made of pancha bhutas, etc.  So, This is not about the possible sanskaras of the Jnani during the post-jnana pre-death period.  

 

Ø     Then who is this jnAni who is still having the rAga-dvesha even after paramArtha jnAna??  What exactly is this jnAna if it is not capable of eradicating the rAga-dvesha??  See, if you say in the jnAni rAga-dvesha is there then you will have to accept that he is pramAtru, he still contemplate sense objects, attached to it due to attachment to sense objects he gets either rAga-dvesha, and finally perishes to it!! is it not?? See geeta dhyAyatO vishayAn puMsaH…….buddhi nAshAt praNashyati.    Don’t you know, how bhagavatpAda explained the veda pratipAdita advayAtma darshana is free from rAga-dvesha?? 

 

Please open the link  https://archive.org/details/YogaEnlightenmentAndPerfection/page/n195/mode/2up   and see what Shankara says in the Brihadaranyaka Bhashya, given with translation there: p. 186 and 187.  Shankara gives the analogy of: a person who is well aware of the directions (south, east, etc.) can at times be deluded about them (like taking the west for east, etc.).  Shankara says recollections, smriti, from the pre-jnana state can occur to him in the post-jnana state too.   

 

This is from the Brihadaranyaka 1.4.10 bhashya.  You can see the translation in the above link.  

 

Ø     So you are saying by citing the dviteeya Chandra darshana, digbhrAnta examples bhAshyakAra saying paramArtha jnAni post jnAna period does have the rAga dveshAdi anishta??  How these external loukika examples can effectively be applied to svarUpa jnAna and its realization??

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Bhaskar ji,

I don't believe Shankara explicitly says that the jnAni has rAga dvesha in his bhAShya-s. 

1) However, as Subbuji pointed out, in the BSB 4.1.15 he says बाधितमपि तु मिथ्याज्ञानं द्विचन्द्रज्ञानवत्संस्कारवशात्कंचित्कालमनुवर्तत एव - so all he says is that even though mithyAjnAna is sublated (by samyaj-jnAna), there is sometimes an appearance of mithyAjnAna for some period of time. 

2) In the gItAbhAShya 2.59, while commenting on रसोऽप्यस्य परं दृष्ट्वा निवर्तते, Shankara says सोऽपि रसो रञ्जनारूपः सूक्ष्मः अस्य यतेः परं परमार्थतत्त्वं ब्रह्म दृष्ट्वा उपलभ्य ‘अहमेव तत्’ इति वर्तमानस्य निवर्तते निर्बीजं विषयविज्ञानं सम्पद्यते इत्यर्थः  - for this sage who has the direct knowledge of the supreme reality as "I alone am That", taste in the form of subtle attachment ceases (सूक्ष्मः रञ्जनारूपः रसः निवर्तते), and clarifies this further as his objective perception becomes seedless (विषयविज्ञानं निर्बीजं सम्पद्यते).

Putting 2 and 1 next to each other and draw a samanvaya of these two views, one can conclude that for the jnAni, there may be a continuation of mithyApratyaya due to samskAra (from 1), but such a mithyApratyaya, being a viShaya vijnAna, is nirbIja, seedless (from 2) - ie things appear to him, but he does not hanker after them, because अस्य यतेः रञ्जनारूपः सूक्ष्मः रसः निवर्तते, for this sage, the subtle hankering in the form of attachment ceases.

As he has stated in the samanvaya adhikaraNa bhAShya, नावगतब्रह्मात्मभावस्य यथापूर्वं संसारित्वं शक्यं दर्शयितुम् , वेदप्रमाणजनितब्रह्मात्मभावविरोधात्  - which I take to be the conclusive statement in this matter - there is no samsAritva for the jnAni - so one cannot attribute kartRtva, bhoktRtva, rAga dveSha etc to the jnAni.

How to reconcile this conclusion with the statement in the naiShkarmya siddhi presented by Sudhanshu ji? I view the statement in the NS as not the siddhAnta - in fact the statement "यत उत्पन्नपरमार्थबोधस्याऽपि कर्तृत्वभोक्तृत्वरागद्वेषाद्यनवबोधोत्थप्रत्यया आविर्भवन्ति" are the words of the pUrvapakshi, not the siddhAntin.

Regards,

Venkatraghavan

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Venkatraghavan prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

Thanks for your kind clarification.  If in Advaita if we say paramArtha jnAni is not just pious and pure he will be having rAga-dvesha also like any other mundane mortal being, then the very beauty of the Upanishad pratipAdita siddhAnta i.e. Advaita paramArtha jnAna (advayAtma darshana or Atmaikatva buddhi or Samyak darshana) vanishes as it gives room to infer it is another sort of dvaita darshana.  One can refer bhAshya on kArika how beautifully bhAshyakAra differentiates the Samyak darshana from all other dualistic darshana especially highlighting how this Samyak darshana is absolutely free from rAga-dvesha.  tairanyOnyavirOdhibhiH asmadeeyamayaM vaidikaH sarvAnanyatvAt Atmaikadarshana pakshaH viruddhyate, yathA svahastapAdAdibhiH, evaM ‘rAgadveshAdidOshAnAspadatvAt Atmaikatva buddhireva samyagdarshanaM.  (kArikA bhAshya 3-17).

 

So, IMHO, the takeaways which unwarrantedly pastes the rAga-dvesha to paramArtha jnAni should be unconditionally taken away from the Advaita vedAnta as it is severely contaminated one. 

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Bhaskar ji and Venkatraghavan ji.

I feel unnecessary controversy is happening because of different meanings taken by the word jnAnI. A pratyaya arises only in buddhi. Whether it is viparIta-pratyaya (rAga-dvesha) or samyak-pratyaya, they all arise in buddhi. 

JnAnI is drashTA of buddhi. He does not identify with buddhi. He identifies with AtmA (Even this is not proper. He is verily AtmA). So, naturally there is no connection of viparIta-pratyaya or samyak-pratyaya (appearing in buddhi) with jnAnI, who is Atma-swarUpa. Being devoid of buddhi, a jnAnI is Brahman and hence has neither viparIta-pratyaya nor samyak-pratyaya.

However, when in the drishTi of ajnAnI, a jnAnI is accepted as connected with a body-mind, then the discussion takes another form. For example, we hold Shankaracharya to be connected to a particular body-mind. We hold that He was born in Kerala during such and such time. That He lived for so many years etc. So, here we are admitting a connection of a particular body-mind with AtmA and terming it as jnAnI. We are also naming it as "Shankaracharya". The question related to viparIta-pratyaya and samyak-pratyaya stated in the "takeaway" is in this context.

So, in the former framework, jnAnI is disconnected with body-mind and hence neither samyak-pratyaya nor viparIta-pratyaya have any connection with him. So, then we cannot say that - "jnAnI does not have viparIta-pratyaya, but he has samyak-pratyaya". No, both pratyaya are denied for jnAnI in this framework. 

In the latter framework, however, jnAnI is taken as connected with a particular body-mind. This is indeed that laukika-vyavahAra. Here we need to be very clear. Here, the categorical siddhAnta is that viparIta-pratyaya do arise in the buddhi of jnAnI as a part of pArabdha-fala-upabhOga. BhAshya in BUB 1.4.10 clearly says विपरीतप्रत्ययदोषनिमित्तत्वात् तस्य तथाभूतस्यैव विपरीतप्रत्ययदोषसंयुक्तस्य फलदाने सामर्थ्यमिति. So, it is a statement of siddhAnta that - prArabdha can bear fruit only while being coupled with viparIta-pratyaya. These viparIta-pratyaya do not arise in thin air. They arise in the same buddhi which has been accepted as connected to jnAnI. So, here, it must be accepted that viparIta-pratyaya do arise post-jnAna.

However, it must be noted that viparIta-pratyaya arise post-jnAna only for exhaustion of prArabdha. And not otherwise. So, samyak-pratyaya are the default mode of buddhi post-jnAna. However, for exhaustion of prArabdha, viparIta-pratyaya must be accepted post-jnAna.

The statement of pUrvapaksha in NS 1.38 - यत उत्पन्नपरमार्थबोधस्याऽपि कर्तृत्वभोक्तृत्वरागद्वेषाद्यनवबोधोत्थप्रत्यया आविर्भवन्ति - are not denied by siddhAntI. They are accepted and explained to be less powerful than bAdhaka-vidyA-samskAra-janita-pratyaya. The latter overpowers the former and the swarUpa-sthiti of jnAnI is not jeopardized. So, it cannot be accepted that viparIta-pratyaya post-jnAna are denied by siddhAntI and are merely pUrva-paksha. More so, when BUB 1.4.10 clearly says that prArabdha can bear fruit only while being coupled with viparIta-pratyaya, I don't understand how can it be held that viparIta-pratyaya don't arise post-jnAna.

So, it is clear that viparIta-pratyaya such as rAga-dvesha do arise post-jnAna for exhaustion of prArabdha. However, being drashTA of buddhi, jnAnI is not at all perturbed. Knowing both the samyak-pratyaya and viparIta-pratyaya to be seen, mirage and illusion, he situates as his own self, indifferent to the seen. [samyak-pratyaya is also seen and illusory. However, the object referred thereby is abAdhita AtmA and is hence a valid knowledge]. 

//If in Advaita if we say paramArtha jnAni is not just pious and pure he will be having rAga-dvesha also like any other mundane mortal being, then the very beauty of the Upanishad pratipAdita siddhAnta i.e. Advaita paramArtha jnAna (advayAtma darshana or Atmaikatva buddhi or Samyak darshana) vanishes as it gives room to infer it is another sort of dvaita darshana.//

As explained above. We should not mix the frameworks. Otherwise useless controversy arises.

//So, IMHO, the takeaways which unwarrantedly pastes the rAga-dvesha to paramArtha jnAni should be unconditionally taken away from the Advaita vedAnta as it is severely contaminated one.//

As explained above. BUB 1.4.10 should be referred to.

Bhagvan VidyAraNya gives beautiful examples in Panchadashi 7.151 and 11.131. The import is as under - despite jnAna, there can be bhOga-ichchhA due to specific type of prArabdha. However, despite that, during bhOga, vishaya-Ananda and Brahma-Ananda are present like knowing two languages or like being half immersed in Ganga. 

Regards.

Sudhanshu Shekhar.

[V Subrahmanian]

Namaste All,

In there Panchadashi, 7th chapter, Tripti deepa prakaranam, is this interesting verse:

रागो लिङ्गमबोधस्य सन्तु रागादयो बुधे ।
इति शास्त्रद्वयं सार्थमेवं सत्यविरोधतः ॥ १९०॥  7.190

(presence of) Desire is the sign of the ignorant one and 'let there be desire in the Jnani' - these two apparently contradictory pronouncements are not mutually conflicting.  

The two such statements are from the Naishkarmyasiddhi, say and quote, the two commentators:  The gist is: while gross desire is indeed the sign of the ignorant, desire that is seeming is not contradictory to a Jnani.  

Read both the commentaries here:

https://archive.org/details/PanchadashiModakaTika/page/%E0%A5%A8%E0%A5%AD%E0%A5%AC/mode/2up

In this edition the Panchadashi verse is 7.191 (91 that includes 100)

and the next page: page: https://archive.org/details/PanchadashiModakaTika/page/%E0%A5%A8%E0%A5%AD%E0%A5%AE/mode/2up

In this following link, to the book 'Yoga, Enlightenment and Perfection', one can read excerpts from Swami Vidyaranya's Jivanmukti viveka, with English translation, on this topic:

https://archive.org/details/YogaEnlightenmentAndPerfection/page/n193/mode/2up   

Read on p.185 second half and p.186 full and 187 first half.

All the above inputs are crucial in understanding the idea 'desire, anger, etc. in a Jnani'.

And with reference with Sudhanshu ji's opinion, I think we can appreciate this:  For the working out of the prarabdha of a Jnani, there will be a default requirement of desire and other such emotions:  If he is to have food, the thought 'let me have food now/ let me avoid food today due to a bad tummy', let me go for bhiksha, etc.'  will arise and are quite admissible. There can be situations when anger will have to be displayed.  It's another matter that the Jnani will view all such mental modifications as Atman, just like the Taittiriyonpanishad has said: kimaham saadhu na akaravam, kimaham paapam akaravam iti' - type of regret will not be there for the Jnani, because he views them as Atman: उभे ह्येवैते आत्मानं स्पृणुते - the presence of such emotions in the mind, which is not he, will be perceived by him as Atman.  The BGB 2.16 teaching for Arjuna, in the words of the Bhashyakara: 

त्वमपि तत्त्वदर्शिनां दृष्टिमाश्रित्य शोकं मोहं च हित्वा शीतोष्णादीनि नियतानियतरूपाणि द्वन्द्वानि ‘विकारोऽयमसन्नेव मरीचिजलवन्मिथ्यावभासते’ इति मनसि निश्चित्य तितिक्षस्व इत्यभिप्रायः ॥ १६ ॥

You too, on the lines of the Jnanis, look upon the transformations as mere appearances and forbear them.  We can see the JMV too saying this. 

warm regards

subbu

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[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Subbuji

Thanks for sharing these references. The Panchadashi verse you quote refers to two verses from Sureshvaracharya's works, with seemingly contradictory meanings

1) One from the Naishkarmya Siddhi which says that wherever there is rAga, there is ignorance

2) One from the BUB Varttika which says, if it is said that rAga etc arises for a jnAni, let they be so.

The PanchadashikAra says that the two are not contradictory - the commentators explain this by saying that in the case of the jnAni, such thoughts are not rAga, but rAga-AbhAsa.

A thought arising in the form of "I am hungry, I must eat" for a jnAni does not bind the jnAni, like it would an ajnAni, and hence is not rAga as far as the jnAni is concerned. It appears to be rAga, hence it is rAga-AbhAsa.

I am in agreement with that.

Regards,

Venkatraghavan 

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[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Venkat ji

It appears to be rAga, hence it is rAga-AbhAsa.

This is perfect.

Regards.

Sudhanshu Shekhar.

[Jaishankar Narayanan]

Namaste,

My Guruji Swami Dayanada used to say a JnAni cannot have binding desires (rAga / dvesha) i.e. the idea that  I am happy only if I fulfill my desires, as the jnAni knows one's Atma as the source of all happiness. Still a South Indian jnAni may prefer idli / sambhar and a north Indian jnAni may prefer roti / dal :-)

with love and prayers,

Jaishankar

--

[Jaishankar Narayanan]

Namaste,

In this context the BG verse 3.33 and its bhashya also has to be noted

सदृशं चेष्टते स्वस्याः प्रकृतेर्ज्ञानवानपि ।
प्रकृतिं यान्ति भूतानि निग्रहः किं करिष्यति ॥ ३.३३ ॥

सदृशम् अनुरूपं चेष्टते चेष्टां करोति | कस्य ? स्वस्याः स्वकीयायाः प्रकृतेः । प्रकृतिर्नाम पूर्वकृतधर्माधर्मादिसंस्कारः वर्तमानजन्मादौ अभिव्यक्तः ; सा प्रकृतिः । तस्याः सदृशमेव सर्वो जन्तुः ज्ञानवानपि चेष्टते, किं पुनर्मूर्खः । तस्मात् प्रकृतिं यान्ति अनुगच्छन्ति भूतानि प्राणिनः । निग्रहः निषेधरूपः किं करिष्यति मम वा अन्यस्य वा । 

sadṛśaṃ ceṣṭate svasyāḥ prakṛterjñānavānapi ।
prakṛtiṃ yānti bhūtāni nigrahaḥ kiṃ kariṣyati ॥ 3.33 ॥

sadṛśam anurūpaṃ ceṣṭate ceṣṭāṃ karoti | kasya ? svasyāḥ svakīyāyāḥ prakṛteḥ । prakṛtirnāma pūrvakṛtadharmādharmādisaṃskāraḥ vartamānajanmādau abhivyaktaḥ ; sā prakṛtiḥ । tasyāḥ sadṛśameva sarvo jantuḥ jñānavānapi ceṣṭate, kiṃ punarmūrkhaḥ । tasmāt prakṛtiṃ yānti anugacchanti bhūtāni prāṇinaḥ । nigrahaḥ niṣedharūpaḥ kiṃ kariṣyati mama vā anyasya vā ।

with love and prayers,

Jaishankar

[Jaishankar Narayanan]

Namaste,

One more BG verse to consider in this context is BG 7.11 and its bhashya

बलं बलवतां चाहं कामरागविवर्जितम् ।
धर्माविरुद्धो भूतेषु कामोऽस्मि भरतर्षभ ॥ ७.११ ॥

बलं सामर्थ्यम् ओजो बलवताम् अहम् , तच्च बलं कामरागविवर्जितम् , कामश्च रागश्च कामरागौ — कामः तृष्णा असंनिकृष्टेषु विषयेषु, रागो रञ्जना प्राप्तेषु विषयेषु — ताभ्यां कामरागाभ्यां विवर्जितं देहादिधारणमात्रार्थं बलं सत्त्वमहमस्मि ; न तु यत्संसारिणां तृष्णारागकारणम् । किञ्च — धर्माविरुद्धः धर्मेण शास्त्रार्थेन अविरुद्धो यः प्राणिषु भूतेषु कामः, यथा देहधारणमात्राद्यर्थः अशनपानादिविषयः, स कामः अस्मि हे भरतर्षभ 

balaṃ balavatāṃ cāhaṃ kāmarāgavivarjitam ।
dharmāviruddho bhūteṣu kāmo'smi bharatarṣabha ॥ 7.11 ॥

balaṃ sāmarthyam ojo balavatām aham , tacca balaṃ kāmarāgavivarjitam , kāmaśca rāgaśca kāmarāgau — kāmaḥ tṛṣṇā asaṃnikṛṣṭeṣu viṣayeṣu, rāgo rañjanā prāpteṣu viṣayeṣu — tābhyāṃ kāmarāgābhyāṃ vivarjitaṃ dehādidhāraṇamātrārthaṃ balaṃ sattvamahamasmi ; na tu yatsaṃsāriṇāṃ tṛṣṇārāgakāraṇam । kiñca — dharmāviruddhaḥ dharmeṇa śāstrārthena aviruddho yaḥ prāṇiṣu bhūteṣu kāmaḥ, yathā dehadhāraṇamātrādyarthaḥ aśanapānādiviṣayaḥ, sa kāmaḥ asmi he bharatarṣabha

with love and prayers,
Jaishankar

On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 8:42 PM Jaishankar Narayanan <jai...@gmail.com> wrote:

Namaste,

[Bhaskar YR]

Still a South Indian jnAni may prefer idli / sambhar and a north Indian jnAni may prefer roti / dal :-)

 

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

Good one 😊 if the south Indian jnAni is in North India still prefers for idli, vada & saMbar and by knowing it is not available at North India or by knowing that it is not so tasty in North India and takes with him a ‘special chef’ to prepare South Indian sumptuous prasAdaM/bhiksha, what would you call that jnAni??  is it rAga or rAga abhAsa in him 😊

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!

bhaskar

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

And the very next verse also very important how the jnAni is triguNAteeta parishuddha Atma as he has already realized he is indriyaateeta parabrahma svarUpa.  indriyasyendriyasyArthe  rAgadveshau vyavasthitaU…If we say paramArtha jnAni will be having the rAga-dvesha then he is identifying himself with his conditioned indriya-s and craving for some sense objects like South Indian jnAni preferring idli-sambar combination in North India 😊

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

 

 

In this context the BG verse 3.33 and its bhashya also has to be noted

 

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

IMO, I don’t think we are talking about paramAtma vibhUti here. Dharma avirOdha kAma also cannot be there in the paramArtha jnAni becoz. His realization is that both dharma and adharma are within the avidyA kshetra. Dharma anugraheeta kAma is also sort of vipareeta pratyaya and the sign of saMsAritva these d0sha-s will not be there in the paramArtha jnAni.  Hence bhAshyakAra somewhere clarifies jnAni’s bhikshAtana and other Cheshta-s cannot be compared with kAma sahita pravrutti of the householder.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

 

 

One more BG verse to consider in this context is BG 7.11 and its bhashya

[V Subrahmanian]

Dear Bhaskar ji,

Bhashyakara says in the Taittiriya Bhashya:  There are many opponents lined up against the single monist, the Vedantin.  I shall take on them: ato jeShyAmi sarvAn, एतदेव मे स्वस्त्ययनम् - यन्मामेकयोगिनमनेकयोगिबहुप्रतिपक्षमात्थ । अतो जेष्यामि सर्वान् ; आरभे च चिन्ताम् ॥   and hence I shall commence the discussion. 

If you accept Bhashyakara to be a Jnani, how about that pratijnA:  I shall defeat all those opponents ? Does it come under dharma or adharma? The word means: जेतुमिच्छा जिगीषा  The desire to win, vanquish, is called jigeeShaa. That's what Shankara has there.  At the beginning of Gita bhashya too he expresses his desire to write a commentary that is free from the defects of the earlier commentaries. He says this in first person, just like the above case. There are many such instances. 

warm regards

subbu 

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[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Subbu prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

What you are trying to prove by quoting these !!??  I am really surprised, do you think shankara bhagavatpAda like any other mortals was having the rebel attitude towards his oppositions and was proud of his intellect and challenging others??  If we stretch this, we can also say bhagavatpAda also enjoyed sex ‘manasaa vAcha’ if not kAya in the episode of parakAya pravesha and he was eager to prove that he knows ‘everything’ even kAma shAstra!!  And his request to maNdana mishra for the vAda bhiksha also can be interpreted like this.  Nope, that is not the way we have to look into these things, again it’s all go back to our previous discussion about jnAni’s BMI which I donot want to re-kindle again.  In short what I am saying is : as per Advaita the paramArtha jnAni is brahman himself, he is paripUrNa, krutakrutya, dvandvaateeta, shOka-mOha vivarjita.  And he is the one who has attained the brahma jnAna and achieved the ultimate (brahma vidApnOti paraM), and he is ultimately free from all types of duality / bandhana / anishta-s like raga-dvesha, shoka-mOha, sukha-duHkha, jaya-apajaya etc.  And as you know very these dvandva-s bind an ajnAni to the cycle of saMsAra and these dvandva-s are verily find its roots in avdiyA.  The realization of the paramArtha jnAni that he was / is / will ever be the ekatvaM with brahman,  burns up these root causes, destroying all attachments and aversions. It is not yatheshta Cheshta of the brahma jnAni nor does he have the mundane desires like I should win this and score a point over my opponent etc.  whether he appears to doing loukika karma or vaidika karma due to his prArabdha or whatever it is, it is only from the bystander view and not that he himself doing this with dehAtma buddhi.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

 

 

If you accept Bhashyakara to be a Jnani, how about that pratijnA:  I shall defeat all those opponents ?

[V Subrahmanian]

Dear Bhaskar ji,

That the Jnani is verily Brahman is not questioned.  But the Upanishads and the BG also say that the Jnani is also a human who has acquired that knowledge and will live in the nine gated city till the body dies.  And Shankara says this alone is taught in the shaastra as sthitaprajna lakshana.  There the very second one is:

दुःखेष्वनुद्विग्नमनाः सुखेषु विगतस्पृहः ।
वीतरागभयक्रोधः स्थितधीर्मुनिरुच्यते ॥ ५६ ॥

In the face of misery and happiness, this Jnani is free of misery and attachment.  

Krishna accepts the possibility of miserable and joyful situations in the Jnani's life.  The Upanishadic Brahman being not a body will not have this. But this Jnani who has realized himself as Brahman is said to be in such situations. No one claims that Brahman has these, but the Jnani who is a human who has got this realization, can and does have these.  It's how he sees them is what is taught here.   

It is in this context that the very thread was started.  

regards

subbu 

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[Rammohan Subramaniam]

Hari Om

Could we say a Jnani[His BMI]  expresses "desire and aversion" and "actions too" for the sake of Lokakalyan impelled by Isvara who is also orchestrating samasti Prarabda ? Jnani  continues to witness all of these as mere projections? Would that explain everything.
 

Om and with Prem

Shri Rammohan

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Hare Krishna

 

Could we say a Jnani[His BMI]  expresses "desire and aversion" and "actions too" for the sake of Lokakalyan

 

• Yes there is bhAshya vAkya to clarify that the jnAni is after the dawn of jnAna though invariably fit for sarva karma sannyasa, may engage himself in karma (activities) for the sake of lOka kalyANa.  But I don’t think he himself having rAga dvesha (desire and aversion) while executing the ‘socalled’ duties.  He is triguNAteeta he transcends the effects of triguNa (sattvarajOtamOguNa-s), and these are the agents of karma, and the paramArtha jnAni who has understood this truth, realizes that the gunas as the doers and he himself is detached from this, he does not have any attachment to the karma phala or he hardly recognizes himself with the experiences of the mind and senses. guNa guNeshu vartante, nishtraiguNyO bhavArjuna is the advice of Lord in geeta.  If that is not the case, if one argues that jnAni is not mere pious and pure he is also impure with rAga-dvesha etc. then he is ‘unfit’ to be called as paramArtha jnAni. 

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Subbu prabhuji

Hare Krishna

दुःखेष्वनुद्विग्नमनाः सुखेषु विगतस्पृहः ।
वीतरागभयक्रोधः स्थितधीर्मुनिरुच्यते ॥ ५६ ॥

 

In the face of misery and happiness, this Jnani is free of misery and attachment.  

 

Krishna accepts the possibility of miserable and joyful situations in the Jnani's life.  The Upanishadic Brahman being not a body will not have this. But this Jnani who has realized himself as Brahman is said to be in such situations. No one claims that Brahman has these, but the Jnani who is a human who has got this realization, can and does have these.  It's how he sees them is what is taught here.   

 

Ø     It has been clarified umpteen times that jnAni is having his own set of body itself is avidyA (dehAtma buddhi) and the paramArtha jnAni is free from this avidyA.  It is only from the outsiders point of view who are still not able to identify jnAni beyond the visible BMI of jnAni, these things have been said.  But jnAni himself will not be having these delusions to say he is the custodian of rAga-dvesha in his own set of BMI.  For those who are pasting the avidyAlesha to paramArtha jnAni it is not palatable as they have to see the continuation of avidyA in one or the other form till the physical death of the paramArtha jnAni.  But bhAshyakAra categorically concluded in samanvayAdhikaraNa bhAshya that paramArtha jnAni is unembodied even while living.  Here the objection is :  bodilessness can come ONLY AFTER the falling off of the body and not to one who is still living in his physical body for this bhagavatpAda clarifies NO coz. the embodiedness itself is due to adhyAsa / avidyA and finally he gives his judgement by saying therefore, embodiedness being only due to a false notion hence it is to be concluded that ashareeratvaM is the very nature of a ‘wise one’ even while living.  Please note here bhAshyakAra is not talking about the Atman and its bodilessness, it is all about the jnAni who is still living in his physical body but still his realization of his unembodiedness.  The case is closed here for those who still talk about jnAni’s individual body, his rAga-dvesha etc. etc.

[V Subrahmanian]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2025 at 10:38 AM 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin <adva...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

praNAms Sri Subbu prabhuji

Hare Krishna

दुःखेष्वनुद्विग्नमनाः सुखेषु विगतस्पृहः ।
वीतरागभयक्रोधः स्थितधीर्मुनिरुच्यते ॥ ५६ ॥

 

In the face of misery and happiness, this Jnani is free of misery and attachment.  

 

Krishna accepts the possibility of miserable and joyful situations in the Jnani's life.  The Upanishadic Brahman being not a body will not have this. But this Jnani who has realized himself as Brahman is said to be in such situations. No one claims that Brahman has these, but the Jnani who is a human who has got this realization, can and does have these.  It's how he sees them is what is taught here.   

 

Ø     It has been clarified umpteen times that jnAni is having his own set of body itself is avidyA (dehAtma buddhi) and the paramArtha jnAni is free from this avidyA.  It is only from the outsiders point of view who are still not able to identify jnAni beyond the visible BMI of jnAni, these things have been said.  But jnAni himself will not be having these delusions to say he is the custodian of rAga-dvesha in his own set of BMI.  For those who are pasting the avidyAlesha to paramArtha jnAni it is not palatable as they have to see the continuation of avidyA in one or the other form till the physical death of the paramArtha jnAni.  But bhAshyakAra categorically concluded in samanvayAdhikaraNa bhAshya that paramArtha jnAni is unembodied even while living. 

Even ajnani is unembodied always as sharira abhimana is due to mithyajnanam. The paramartha jnani has shed his mithyajnanam. But by that much his erstwhile body will not vanish in thin air nor will it die the moment mithyajnanam goes. Shankara says in the samanvaya bhashya:

न च कुण्डलिनः कुण्डलित्वाभिमाननिमित्तं सुखं दृष्टमिति तस्यैव कुण्डलवियुक्तस्य कुण्डलित्वाभिमानरहितस्य तदेव कुण्डलित्वाभिमाननिमित्तं सुखं भवति । तदुक्तं श्रुत्या — ‘अशरीरं वाव सन्तं न प्रियाप्रिये स्पृशतः’ (छा. उ. ८ । १२ । १) इति । शरीरे पतितेऽशरीरत्वं स्यात् , न जीवत इति चेत् , न; सशरीरत्वस्य मिथ्याज्ञाननिमित्तत्वात् । न ह्यात्मनः शरीरात्माभिमानलक्षणं मिथ्याज्ञानं मुक्त्वा अन्यतः सशरीरत्वं शक्यं कल्पयितुम् । नित्यमशरीरत्वमकर्मनिमित्तत्वादित्यवोचाम । 

The same Shankara has also said:

BSB 4.1.15:

बाधितमपि तु मिथ्याज्ञानं द्विचन्द्रज्ञानवत्संस्कारवशात्कंचित्कालमनुवर्तत एव ।

(The mithyAjnana, the false ignorance, even though is sublated by right knowledge, will indeed continue for a period of time, like the perception of double-moon, owing to latent impressions - samskara.)  

Ratnaprabha: 4.1.15 commentary glosses the word 'samskara' - latent impression - of the Bhashya as 'avidyA-lesha')

विक्षेपकाविद्यालेश एव तत्संस्कारः ।   (The projecting power, vikshepaka shakti, avidyAlesha alone is that samskara)

Thus, the claim that Shankara does not say or accept avidyalesha, is baseless as the gloss points out that the concept of avidyAlesha is expressed by the term 'samskara' by Shankara.

Avidya lesha in the Bh.Gita bhashya:   5.13:

सर्वकर्माणि मनसा संन्यस्यास्ते सुखं वशी ।

नवद्वारे पुरे देही नैव कुर्वन्न कारयन् ॥ १३ ॥

(The embodied man of self-control, having given up all actions mentally, continues happily in the town of nine gates, without doing or causing (others) to do anything at all.)

The relevant part of the Bhashya:

उत्पन्नविवेकज्ञानस्य सर्वकर्मसंन्यासिनोऽपि गेहे इव देहे एव नवद्वारे पुरे आसनम् प्रारब्धफलकर्मसंस्कारशेषानुवृत्त्या देह एव विशेषविज्ञानोत्पत्तेः । 

Even in the case of one in whom has arisen discriminating wisdom and who has renounced all actions, there can be, like staying in a house, the continuance in the body itself-the town with nine gates-as a consequence of the persistence of the remnants of the results of past actions which have started bearing fruit, because the awareness of being distinct (from the body) arises while one is in the body itself. 

It is worth noting that the Gita bhashya, just like the Brahma Sutra bhashya cited above, has the word 'samskara' in connection with the continuance of the Jnani to be in the body post-Jnanam. 

Another similarity between the two Bhashyams is on this count:

The BSB 4.1.15 has the statement that the Jnani continues to be aware of 'being in the body'.  The BGB 5.13 too has the statement that the Jnani is conscious of being in the body.  

Thus we conclude that the concept of 'avidyAlesha' (samskara - the word used by Shankara) is explicitly admitted by Shankara in at least these two instances in the Prasthana traya bhashya. What is significant is that the term 'avidyAlesha' is what corresponds to the term 'samskara' as explained by a post-Shankara Advaitin.  This proves that the concept of 'avidyAlesha' is not something introduced by post-Shankara Advaitins but very much there in the Bhashya itself, although denoted by a different technical term 'samskAra'.  

warm regards

subbu

 

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[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Hare Krishna.

1. Shankara explicitly admits prArabdha for jnAnI. He categorically says that vidyA does not burn prArabdha. [सामर्थ्यात् येन कर्मणा शरीरम् आरब्धं तत् प्रवृत्तफलत्वात् उपभोगेनैव क्षीयते । अतो यानि अप्रवृत्तफलानि ज्ञानोत्पत्तेः प्राक् कृतानि ज्ञानसहभावीनि च अतीतानेकजन्मकृतानि च तान्येव सर्वाणि भस्मसात् कुरुते ॥ ३७ ॥]

2. Since vidyA does not burn prArabdha, they are exhausted only through their upabhOga.

3. There cannot be upabhOga of prArabdha without viparIta-pratyaya. BhagvatpAda says in BUB 1.4.10 - येन कर्मणा शरीरमारब्धं तत् , विपरीतप्रत्ययदोषनिमित्तत्वात् तस्य तथाभूतस्यैव विपरीतप्रत्ययदोषसंयुक्तस्य फलदाने सामर्थ्यमिति, यावत् शरीरपातः तावत्फलोपभोगाङ्गतया विपरीतप्रत्ययं रागादिदोषं च तावन्मात्रमाक्षिपत्येव — मुक्तेषुवत् प्रवृत्तफलत्वात् तद्धेतुकस्य कर्मणः ।

This irrefutably proves that as per Shankaracharya, prArabdha continues for jnAnI, and its exhaustion requires viparIta-pratyaya such as rAga-dvesha.

If AchArya "pastes" prArabdha to jnAnI, it is impossible for Him to not "paste" viparIta-pratyaya. That is a logical necessity. Now if someone is willfully accepting prArabdha for jnAnI, then he cannot deny viparIta-pratyaya for jnAnI without violating Shankara.

This is some basic common sense reading of bhAshya. 

//Please note here bhAshyakAra is not talking about the Atman and its bodilessness, it is all about the jnAni who is still living in his physical body but still his realization of his unembodiedness.//

Bhaskar prabhu ji. Aapko "jnAnI" ka definition hi nahi pata hai. Aap pahle "jnAnI" ko define kijiye. Otherwise your statements are liable to be summarily rejected on account of their being devoid of meaning.

Regards.

Sudhanshu Shekhar.

[Jaishankar Narayanan]

Namaste,

See Below.

On Fri, Sep 12, 2025 at 5:03 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <sudhans...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hare Krishna.

Bhaskar prabhu ji. Aapko "jnAnI" ka definition hi nahi pata hai. Aap pahle "jnAnI" ko define kijiye. Otherwise your statements are liable to be summarily rejected on account of their being devoid of meaning.

Regards.

Sudhanshu Shekhar.

In my interactions and discussions with SSS followers what I have heard is as below

1. No one can claim that they are a jnAni as the moment one actually knows that they are Brahman, at that very moment they won’t know they have realized they are Brahman. This is because all duality vanishes as soon as one knows brahman  and so one cannot claim one is a jnAni. (I don't know then how in Kena Upanishad the shishyA said manye viditam!)

2. After jnAnam there is no triputi - knower, known and knowledge which are all products of ignorance (which is abhAva by the way) and since ignorance is destroyed with its products (the triputi), no one can claim any knowledge.

3. Once someone even argued that Shanknara himself never claims he is a jnAni anywhere, to prove point 1. 

These things were said by people who had dedicated their life to Vedanta and are Mumukshus, but misguided by a prakriya which leads to anirmoksha-prasanga. In their eagerness to preserve advaita they have made dvaita more real than what it is and expect the dvaita perception itself to vanish. They deny the svAnubhava of a jnAni as a jnAni. 

[Suresh Balaraman]

A jnani never says he/she is a jnani, imho 🙏

Suresh Balaraman

On Sep 12, 2025, at 1:07 PM, Jaishankar Narayanan <jai...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Bhaskar YR]

A jnani never says he/she is a jnani, imho 🙏

Suresh Balaraman

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

But according to some there are – he (pullinga) jnAni, she (streelinga) jnAni, gruhastha jnAni, sanyasi jnAni, avidhUta jnAni etc. etc. and also they say he jnAni talked to she jnAni about the brahma vidyA 😊  it is because they are seeing the physical appearance of these jnAni-s and hence they attribute to dehAtma buddhi to these jnAni-s as a result avidyA lesha/saMskAra, rAga-dvesha, vipareeta pratyaya etc. etc. 

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!

bhaskar

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Jaishankar prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

In my interactions and discussions with SSS followers what I have heard is as below

 

Ø     Then you must have read ‘too much’ between the lines 😊

 

1. No one can claim that they are a jnAni as the moment one actually knows that they are Brahman, at that very moment they won’t know they have realized they are Brahman. This is because all duality vanishes as soon as one knows brahman  and so one cannot claim one is a jnAni. (I don't know then how in Kena Upanishad the shishyA said manye viditam!)

 

• No one is saying after jnAna, jnAni stop seeing anything and world vanishes in thin air!!  This type of fancy theories advocated by only some later vyAkhyAnakAra-s who are arguing that the jnAni while living in his physical body gets the gaUNa mukti (jeevanmukti is inferior as per them) and after the physical death he will get mukhya mukti.  As long as there is association with bhautika or sUkshma shareera he would carry the avidyA lesha/vipareeta pratyaya/rAga-dvesha etc, so Videha mukti is ‘all important’ mukti.  OTOH, as per Sri SSS and bhAshya jnAni while still living in his physical shareera his realization is that he was / is / will always be ashareeri only, he was / is / never will be a kartru/bhOktru and there was / is / never will be an avidyA in Atman and he is Atman who is absolutely free from shareera and shareera / indriya saMbandhita rAga-dvesha.  Now, atleast now, will you stop reading or hearing too much in the definitions / discussions with SSS followers?? 😊

 

2. After jnAnam there is no triputi - knower, known and knowledge which are all products of ignorance (which is abhAva by the way) and since ignorance is destroyed with its products (the triputi), no one can claim any knowledge.

 

• So as per you, the jnAni would still have the satyatva buddhi in pramAtru, pramANa and prameya triputi…To think that you are pramAtru, you need to have satyatva buddhi in your ‘own’ individual shareera / indriya/upAdhi lest you can not have the notion that you are the knower there is something else to be known and there is an act of knowing it.  If you still have any doubt about Atman is free from pramAtru you can refer the geeta bhAshya 2-69. 

 

3. Once someone even argued that Shanknara himself never claims he is a jnAni anywhere, to prove point 1. 

 

• But as per some dry logician the shankra is himself a fancy figure in your grand imagination do you know that??  Please deal with them first before coming to Sri SSS followers with your fantasy objections.   

 

These things were said by people who had dedicated their life to Vedanta and are Mumukshus, but misguided by a prakriya which leads to anirmoksha-prasanga. In their eagerness to preserve advaita they have made dvaita more real than what it is and expect the dvaita perception itself to vanish. They deny the svAnubhava of a jnAni as a jnAni. 

 

Ø     Let the jnAni be as a jnAni don’t make him a victim to your dry logic, that is what an earnest request by those who follow shruti and shankara.

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

1. Shankara explicitly admits prArabdha for jnAnI. He categorically says that vidyA does not burn prArabdha. [सामर्थ्यात् येन कर्मणा शरीरम् आरब्धं तत् प्रवृत्तफलत्वात् उपभोगेनैव क्षीयते । अतो यानि अप्रवृत्तफलानि ज्ञानोत्पत्तेः प्राक् कृतानि ज्ञानसहभावीनि च अतीतानेकजन्मकृतानि च तान्येव सर्वाणि भस्मसात् कुरुते ॥ ३७ ॥]

 

Ø     Yes vidya can not burn an existing thing (like fire burning the wood) nor it creates something new which is not existing earlier.  So vidyA reveals the jnAna which is already existing.  bhUta vastu Vishaya jnAna.  Vidya eradicates the wrong knowledge about existing thing, so if jnAna is not burning the prArabdha and ONLY efface the avidyA you should know that prArabdha janita shareera and identification with it by the paramArtha jnAni  is completely absent in him.  By the way you know something there is one prakaraNa called aparOkshAnubhUti where is it is said jnAni since he who has realized the ashareeratvaM is his svarUpa cannot have the prArabdha karma either, as his realization fetches him the knowledge that there is no creation, destruction, no mumukshu and no bandha and no mOksha.  To accept prArabdha karma and its influence you have to accept that there is srushti, there is karma, there is karma phala so welcome to SDV and stop arguing that jagat is atyanta abhAva like shUnyavAdins.  And from the above it can also to be noted that prArabdha karma is not an obstacle to paramArtha jnAni who has realized that ashareeratvaM is svAbhAvika to HIM.  But when it is said that it must be exhausted after realization, it is for those who are still identifying the jnAni with the BMI and his socalled activities. Since he does not have any avidyA or dehAtma buddhi, the paramArtha jnAni still appears to have experiences the effects of prArabdha through his body to the bystanders, but in the depth of their heart, they no longer identify with these experiences and are not bound by them. 

 

2. Since vidyA does not burn prArabdha, they are exhausted only through their upabhOga.

 

3. There cannot be upabhOga of prArabdha without viparIta-pratyaya. BhagvatpAda says in BUB 1.4.10 - येन कर्मणा शरीरमारब्धं तत् , विपरीतप्रत्ययदोषनिमित्तत्वात् तस्य तथाभूतस्यैव विपरीतप्रत्ययदोषसंयुक्तस्य फलदाने सामर्थ्यमिति, यावत् शरीरपातः तावत्फलोपभोगाङ्गतया विपरीतप्रत्ययं रागादिदोषं च तावन्मात्रमाक्षिपत्येव — मुक्तेषुवत् प्रवृत्तफलत्वात् तद्धेतुकस्य कर्मणः ।

 

Ø     Again 2-3 is a result of wrong notion that jnAni is still identifying with his individual BMI, still thinking that he is born, and would get the death in future etc.  ramaNa gives the example of 3 wives who became widow after the death of their husband.  When the ego itself effaced in the jnAni how can he still have the saMchita, Agaami and prArabdha??  It is only from the outsiders point of view these things have been said to satisfy the queries like how can jnAni still continue with the body etc. when he realized he is brahman etc.

 

This irrefutably proves that as per Shankaracharya, prArabdha continues for jnAnI, and its exhaustion requires viparIta-pratyaya such as rAga-dvesha.

 

Ø     Ayyoo raama, what a statement!!  First you said there is neither vipareeta pratyaya nor correct pratyaya in jnAni, then after seeing Sri Venkatraghavan prabhuji’s mail you agreed that it is abhAsa mAtra not rAga-dvesha themselves and now again you are giving the judgement that prArabdha continuation for jnAni and its exhaustion requires rAga-dvesha etc. Do you mean to say if the prArabdha destined to do some murder some rape by jnAni, he would get vipareeta pratyaya of rAga-dvesha and accordingly act.  Or if not act do you want to say he will get the ideas of murder and rape in his mind due to saMskAra of avidyA due to prArabdha??  Is there any stop to these convoluted explanations to prove that jnAni’s rAga dvesha in the name of his prArabdha ?? 

 

If AchArya "pastes" prArabdha to jnAnI, it is impossible for Him to not "paste" viparIta-pratyaya. That is a logical necessity. Now if someone is willfully accepting prArabdha for jnAnI, then he cannot deny viparIta-pratyaya for jnAnI without violating Shankara.

 

Ø     The jnAni what Advaita talks about is ‘krutakrutya’ he is free from any dvandva, that AtmAnubhava fetches him the knowledge that he is sarva duhkha vinirmukta.  tasmAt sarvaduHkha vinirmuktaH eka chaitanyAtmakOhaM etyesha AtmAnubhavaH, clarifies by bhAshyakAra.  There is absolute absence of saMsAritva / vipareeta pratyaya in the paramArtha jnAni, if he still entertains rAga-dvesha in one or the other form definitely he is not Atmaikatva jnAni.  kim cha na cha vipareetapratyayO vidyAvataH utpadyate, nirvishayatvAt.  Please stop doing harm to shankara siddhAnta like this with your meaningless / baseless dry logic.  You must first learn in which context bhAshyakAra talks about vipareeta pratyaya and vipareetapratyayAvabhAsa…When jnAni realizaes that trishvapi kAleshu akartru, abhOktru and his svarUpa brahma.  Where is the question of vipareeta pratyaya, where is question of rAga-dvesha in him.  Very painful to see the merciless distortion of bhAshya vAkya-s in this group by logicians and surprisingly no one wants to say anything about it even after posting this in the group. 

 

This is some basic common sense reading of bhAshya. 

 

Ø     This is just an attempt of distorting the beauty of Jeevan mukti vAda of shankara bhagavatpAda. 

//Please note here bhAshyakAra is not talking about the Atman and its bodilessness, it is all about the jnAni who is still living in his physical body but still his realization of his unembodiedness.//

 

Bhaskar prabhu ji. Aapko "jnAnI" ka definition hi nahi pata hai. Aap pahle "jnAnI" ko define kijiye.

 

• jnAni endare, paramaartha jnaani, jnAniyannu naavu namma bhautika kannugalinda nodi gurutisuttiddaru jnAni svarUpataH parabrahman, avanige dehAtma buddhi eruvudilla, kartrutva, bhOtruva gala bandhanavilla, avanige sukha vaagali, duHkhavAgali baadhisuvudilla, avanige sarvavu brahma mayavaagi kaanuttiruttade, jnaaniya karmaadi cheshtegalu kevala ajnAniya drushti inda satyatvavannu padedu kondiruttade aadare jnAniyu sva-shareeradalli eruvaagalu brahmave aagiruttaane, nimage a jnAniya bagge tiLIdilla vendare dayavitu shankara bhaashyavannu aaLavaagi adhyayana maadiri, shushka tarkavannu tiraskarisi, shrauta tarkavannu manana maaduvudakke balisi. 

 

Otherwise your statements are liable to be summarily rejected on account of their being devoid of meaning.

 

Ø     Your statements can outrightly be rejected as it is already charred by dry logic.