How to correspond rope-snake to Brahman-world?

[putran M]

Namaskaram,

Rishi-ji sent the question:

We know that the snake which is in perception goes away once we have realised about the rope,but it seems that wrt. to the world even after realisation that this false wrt. Brahman yet the world still remains to the perception of the great gyani yet !

My response:

Remember there are two standpoints of knowledge of Brahman. In the paramarthika standpoint, the world is asat. There is no duality whatsoever wrt nirguna Brahman. When we say the world vanishes (like the snake) after knowledge of Brahman, we mean that from the standpoint of this paramartha jnana, there is no world available to even consider. When the Self is realized in everything and everywhere, as the ALL, where is the room for any sort of duality anymore? The snake is the attribution of existence apart from Brahman or a division of existence within Brahman. This snake is no more in the knowledge of nirguna Brahman. If we are still asking questions on duality, then we are in the vyavaharika standpoint where Brahman corresponds as Ishvara and the world is His appearance/projection due to Maya. That is, because we ponder over the dream of duality, we must admit the non-dual Self as its unitary Dreamer projecting as if the dream. Because we differentiate necklace and ring, we must admit their Self as Gold that appears as if in such distinct forms. Thus in the vyavaharika standpoint, we posit a dreamer-dream or necklace-Gold duality in Brahman and realize the dream/necklace as nothing but the imagination/appearance of the Dreamer/Gold. 

Rishi-ji then sent me the attached excerpts from the Mandukya Karika I.17 (translated Swami Nikhilananda of RKM) that elucidate on the topic.

thollmelukaalkizhu

[putran M]

forgot to include the attachments. Here they are.

[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

Putranji - PraNAms

There are two types of projections - one is subjective projection as in rope/snake sake and the other is an objective projection as in miraj waters or sunrise/sunset. Subjective projections are projections by the individual mind and objective projections are by the collective mind or Iswara. Realization that it is a rope and not a snake - makes the individual mind projection to disappear - while the miraj water will remain even after realization the underlying truth. These also lead to shrushiti-drushiti vaada and drushti-shrushti vaada. 

Hence from the point of the individual mind, the world projection continues even after realization as in the case of miraj waters. From the point of the total mind one can say - it becomes leela vibhuuti - hence Krishna says - mastaani sarva bhuutani - all beings are in Me and in the very next sloka He contradicts - na cha mastaani bhuutani - there are no beings in Me - pasyam me yogamaiswaram - Look at My glory, Arjuna. 

Hari Om!

Sada

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[putran M]

Namaskaram Sada-ji,

Thanks for the clear explanation. 

There are at least two possibilities, post-jnana:

1. I know fully that I see only "Light reflected off Air" but due to vasanas, my mind continues to relate my vision to "water". So the mirage-water remains in consciousness even after knowledge it is an appearance of/on Air only.

or 

2. My consciousness of "water" is entirely withdrawn and what remains in my knowledge and awareness is only (that I see) "light reflected off air". (However I can relate, from memory, to the condition of ajnanis who think they see water; and tell them that is a mirage.)

Which (if not both) do you consider the state of a jnani?

thollmelukaalkizhu

[putran M]

1. I know fully that I see only "Light reflected off Air" but due to vasanas, my mind continues to relate my vision to "water". So the mirage-water remains in consciousness even after knowledge it is an appearance of/on Air only.

This position can be made stronger: instead of "due to vasanas" that can be overcome, rather "due to the nature of Ishvara's projection of my mind", I will continue to relate my vision back to "this is water" in some basic sense that however is known at the deeper level of knowledge as being only "air".

[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

Putranji - PraNAms

I must say, that one cannot see pure light - one can only see reflected light from the object. Our attention is on the object, although what we really see is reflected light that reaches our retina and forms an image. It is like looking at the moon and say we are seeing the moon. What we are seeing is only reflected sunlight. Meditation is using the moon and thus the moonlight and shift cognitively the mind's attention to the sunlight that one is really seeing. Even after the recognition of the sunlight one can still see the moon and enjoy it's beauty. Same thing applies to the light of consciousness. One can only cognitively recognize using Vedanta pramaana that we conscious of every thought in the mind since the light of consciousness is getting reflected by the thought and recognize by the mind - Hence Kenopanishat says - it is revealed in every thought - pratibodha viditam matam. On that basis your first option is more correct. Knowing what one is really seeing the reflected conscousness either reflected by the thought or mind itself in the case when the thoughts are absent. Recognition is only by the mind; hence even realization is only in Vyavahaara state. 

By the by some of these aspects were discussed in my book "How do I Know" -published by the Indic Academy and available online on Amazon, etc. 

Hari Om!

Sada

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[putran M]

Namaskaram Sada-ji,

I want to give another example of position 1. I hope this is in consonance with your understanding.

We see a cricket match on TV. Player X makes a catch and we are joyous as the players on our team. 

But the fact is we are watching modifications of light on a screen. We fully know this to be fact, and yet our consciousness indulges in the mithya world of a cricket match. 

Now it is possible for us to loosen the shackles of vasanas, and acquire greater, perhaps mostly unwavering focus on the knowledge of light. That knowledge itself will then prevent the upamana-tendency to think "cricket match".

However, this process of cleansing and absorbing the mind 'wholly' in knowledge is secondary to the attainment of knowledge itself and being rooted in it at the fundamental level. Like we already know that we are only watching jada light jumping on the screen (the rope), and yet may find our thoughts in the mithya "I am seeing cricket" world (the snake), so also a jnani may fully know all is Ishvara - the non-dual Self appearing as All - and yet superficially find his mind and awareness indulging in dualities of the world as if they are real. How much this indulgence happens varies from jnani to jnani, according to their control over mind etc., but nevertheless all jnanis have full knowledge of reality. Whereas the ajnanis do not know Ishvara and believe samsara is real.

One further question: in your understanding, can the jnani lose sight of jnana itself, at least temporarily, under duress or deception? If so, how and how not?

(These topics have been hotly debated in the past, but it may be useful if the votaries of position 1 themselves clarify its nuances.)

thollmelukaalkizhu

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[putran M]

Namaskaram,

However, this process of cleansing and absorbing the mind 'wholly' in knowledge is secondary to the attainment of knowledge itself and being rooted in it at the fundamental level. Like we already know that we are only watching jada light jumping on the screen (the rope), and yet may find our thoughts in the mithya "I am seeing cricket" world (the snake), so also a jnani may fully know all is Ishvara - the non-dual Self appearing as All - and yet superficially find his mind and awareness indulging in dualities of the world as if they are real. How much this indulgence happens varies from jnani to jnani, according to their control over mind etc., but nevertheless all jnanis have full knowledge of reality. Whereas the ajnanis do not know Ishvara and believe samsara is real.

Here is a relevant quotation from the bhashya before verse I.7 in Mandukya:

"when Turiya is realized as the Self, it leads to the cessation of craving for the nonSelf, just as the hankering for silver ceases on recognizing the nacre. Indeed, there can be no possibility of such defects as ignorance, desire, and the like, after the realization of Turiya as one's Self. "

This has a difference from my example. One does not desire silver at the location of the nacre after realizing it is not silver. However, the nacre can remind a miser of the silver that has a existence different from the nacre's, and he does adhyaropa of that silver onto the seen nacre-substratum (and indulges in desire etc. despite knowing it is a case of adhyasa). This latter scenario is similar to my cricket example. The strong bhashya statement above suggests that the jnani ceases to do (impelled by vasanas) this kind of adhyaropa as well - which would align better with position 2. 

Noting another quote just as a reference. from BSB I.i.24: Only one kind of result (viz liberation) is to be understood where the supreme Brahman, devoid of contact with all kinds of distinctions, is taught as the Self. But where Brahman is taught as having certain qualities or certain symbols, then are mentioned many results, high and low, which are included within this world as is shown in such texts as "(The great birthless Self is) the eater of food and the giver of wealth (i.e. fruits of work).

thollmelukaalkizhu