A glimpse of the AarambhaNadhikaraNa bhashya in the Upadeshasaahasri

[V Subrahmanian]

In the Brama sutra bhashya 2.1.14 for the sutra  तदनन्यत्वमारम्भणशब्दादिभ्यः ॥ १४ ॥  Shankara has said this about Nama-rupa being in the nascent state before creation and that their manifestation is what creation is: 

अविद्यात्मकनामरूपबीजव्याकरणापेक्षत्वात्सर्वज्ञत्वस्य । ‘ तस्माद्वा एतस्मादात्मन आकाशः सम्भूतः’ (तै. उ. २ । १ । १) इत्यादिवाक्येभ्यः नित्यशुद्धबुद्धमुक्तस्वरूपात्सर्वज्ञात्सर्वशक्तेरीश्वराज्जगज्जनिस्थितिप्रलयाः, चेतनात्प्रधानादन्यस्माद्वा — इत्येषोऽर्थः प्रतिज्ञातः — ‘ जन्माद्यस्य यतः’ (ब्र. सू. १ । १ । २) इति ; सा प्रतिज्ञा तदवस्थैव, न तद्विरुद्धोऽर्थः पुनरिहोच्यते । कथं नोच्यते, अत्यन्तमात्मन एकत्वमद्वितीयत्वं च ब्रुवता ? शृणु यथा नोच्यते — सर्वज्ञस्येश्वरस्यात्मभूते इवाविद्याकल्पिते नामरूपे तत्त्वान्यत्वाभ्यामनिर्वचनीये संसारप्रपञ्चबीजभूते सर्वज्ञस्येश्वरस्य मायाशक्तिः प्रकृतिरिति च श्रुतिस्मृत्योरभिलप्येते ; ताभ्यामन्यः सर्वज्ञ ईश्वरः, ‘ आकाशो वै नाम नामरूपयोर्निर्वहिता ते यदन्तरा तद्ब्रह्म’ (छा. उ. ८ । १४ । १) इति श्रुतेः, ‘ नामरूपे व्याकरवाणि’ (छा. उ. ६ । ३ । २) ‘ सर्वाणि रूपाणि विचित्य धीरो नामानि कृत्वाभिवदन्यदास्ते’ (तै. आ. ३ । १२ । ७) ‘ एकं बीजं बहुधा यः करोति’ (श्वे. उ. ६ । १२) इत्यादिश्रुतिभ्यश्च ; एवमविद्याकृतनामरूपोपाध्यनुरोधीश्वरो भवति, व्योमेव घटकरकाद्युपाध्यनुरोधि ; स च स्वात्मभूतानेव घटाकाशस्थानीयानविद्याप्रत्युपस्थापितनामरूपकृतकार्यकरणसङ्घातानुरोधिनो जीवाख्यान्विज्ञानात्मनः प्रतीष्टे व्यवहारविषये ;  

This is succinctly reflected in the Upadeshasaahasri by the Acharya in the prose section:  The commentary of Sri Ramatirtha brings out the purport very well. The translation of the Upadeshasaahasri is available but the commentary may not be there. 

The commentary of Sri Ramatirtha is given below:

The Upadeshasaashasri:

[Venkatraghavan S]

Thank you so much for these Subbuji - it was a pleasure to go through these. One can see how ideas such as mithyAtvam of the nature of sadasatvilakshaNatvam and tAdAtmyam as bheda-sahiShNu-abhedatvam are all found in the writings of Adi Shankaracharya himself.

Regards,

Venkatraghavan

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[dwa...@advaita.org.uk]

Dear Subbu-ji,

 

Could I possibly ask that you supply the references for these quotations in English please as I am presently studying the ArabhaNadhikaraNa and it would be very useful to look up related references.

 

As a general comment, I am sure there must be members of the group who do not know any Sanskrit and maybe cannot read Devanagari script. I myself can work out the script given time but certainly cannot ‘read’ Sanskrit. I appreciate that many texts have never been translated and these of course must remain inaccessible to the likes of myself but ones such as upadesha sAhasrI are available in quite a few translations. Ideally, posts would contain English, or at least ITRANS, so that those of us who are linguistically challenged (!) can still benefit to some degree.

 

Best wishes,

Dennis

 

 

The commentary of Sri Ramatirtha is given below:

 

The Upadeshasaashasri:

 

 

[Rammohan Subramaniam]

Hari OM

A query Regarding ajAtavada - Any thing that is anAdi is ajAta - right ? So why do we try to interpret ajAta as something not being there ? The eight concepts in Vedanta are are anAdi and hence qualify to be ajAta , but there is only one which is ananta - that is Brahman.

Om and with Prem

Shri Rammohan

[V Subrahmanian]

Dear Dennis ji,

First, my apologies for not giving the numerical reference to the Upadeshasahasri text.  This is from the prose part of that text, which comes as the first part of the entire text. After the prose part ends the poetry, metrical, part commences.  The passages I have given here are from the last part of the 18th paragraph and the entire 19th paragraph.  This numbering is maintained in all standard English translations.  For example, the images I supplied for the text (not the commentary) correspond to pages 11 and 12 in the book 'Upadeshashasri, A thousand teachings' translated by Swami Jagadananda and published by Sri Ramakrishna Mutt, Madras, Sixth Edition, 11979.  

As I had mentioned earlier, the commentary of Sri Ramatirtha is not translated, to the best of my knowledge.  Of course the Bhashya of Shankara for BS 2.1.14 that I cited is also available in the translation of Swami Gambhirananda, 2004, Advaita Ashrama edition.  It appears on p.333 //Vedantin: No, since that omniscience (of God)....// and p.334 up to //limiting adjuncts...// 

I trust this helps.

warm regards

subbu

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Shri Rammohan Subramaniamji,

Lord Krishna says as follows and that seems to me to be self-explanatory:

What was not there in the beginning (i.e., before the creation) and what will not be there at the end (i.e., when the creation ceases to exist),  is also like not existing (i.e., does not have the permanency).

Jai Shri Krishna

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

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[dwa...@advaita.org.uk]

Dear Shri Rammohan,

 

You are right. The world is name and form of Brahman. It has never been created. It does not exist as a separate entity. It derives its existence from Brahman. The world is ‘mithyA’ - Brahman is its ‘substrate’. As you say, Brahman is ananta so we cannot say that the world does not exist. It is not true that it was not there in the beginning. It was there but in unmanifest form. If it were not so, there would be no criteria for the next manifestation of jIva-s based upon past karma.

 

Best wishes,

Dennis

 

From: adva...@googlegroups.com <adva...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of sunil bhattacharjya
Sent: 10 November 2020 04:51
To: adva...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [advaitin] Re: A glimpse of the AarambhaNadhikaraNa bhashya in the Upadeshasaahasri

 

Dear Shri Rammohan Subramaniamji,

 

Lord Krishna says as follows and that seems to me to be self-explanatory:

What was not there in the beginning (i.e., before the creation) and what will not be there at the end (i.e., when the creation ceases to exist),  is also like not existing (i.e., does not have the permanency).

 

Jai Shri Krishna

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 7:47 PM Rammohan Subramaniam <rammohan.s...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hari OM

 

A query Regarding ajAtavada - Any thing that is anAdi is ajAta - right ? So why do we try to interpret ajAta as something not being there ? The eight concepts in Vedanta are are anAdi and hence qualify to be ajAta , but there is only one which is ananta - that is Brahman.

 

Om and with Prem

Shri Rammohan

 

On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 5:07:08 PM UTC+5:30 v.subrahmanian wrote:

In the Brama sutra bhashya 2.1.14 for the sutra  तदनन्यत्वमारम्भणशब्दादिभ्यः ॥ १४ ॥  Shankara has said this about Nama-rupa being in the nascent state before creation and that their manifestation is what creation is: 

 

अविद्यात्मकनामरूपबीजव्याकरणापेक्षत्वात्सर्वज्ञत्वस्य । ‘ तस्माद्वा एतस्मादात्मन आकाशः सम्भूतः’ (तै. उ. २ । १ । १) इत्यादिवाक्येभ्यः नित्यशुद्धबुद्धमुक्तस्वरूपात्सर्वज्ञात्सर्वशक्तेरीश्वराज्जगज्जनिस्थितिप्रलयाः, चेतनात्प्रधानादन्यस्माद्वा — इत्येषोऽर्थः प्रतिज्ञातः — ‘ जन्माद्यस्य यतः’ (ब्र. सू. १ । १ । २) इति ; सा प्रतिज्ञा तदवस्थैव, न तद्विरुद्धोऽर्थः पुनरिहोच्यते । कथं नोच्यते, अत्यन्तमात्मन एकत्वमद्वितीयत्वं च ब्रुवता ? शृणु यथा नोच्यते — सर्वज्ञस्येश्वरस्यात्मभूते इवाविद्याकल्पिते नामरूपे तत्त्वान्यत्वाभ्यामनिर्वचनीये संसारप्रपञ्चबीजभूते सर्वज्ञस्येश्वरस्य मायाशक्तिः प्रकृतिरिति च श्रुतिस्मृत्योरभिलप्येते ; ताभ्यामन्यः सर्वज्ञ ईश्वरः, ‘ आकाशो वै नाम नामरूपयोर्निर्वहिता ते यदन्तरा तद्ब्रह्म’ (छा. उ. ८ । १४ । १) इति श्रुतेः, ‘ नामरूपे व्याकरवाणि’ (छा. उ. ६ । ३ । २) ‘ सर्वाणि रूपाणि विचित्य धीरो नामानि कृत्वाभिवदन्यदास्ते’ (तै. आ. ३ । १२ । ७) ‘ एकं बीजं बहुधा यः करोति’ (श्वे. उ. ६ । १२) इत्यादिश्रुतिभ्यश्च ; एवमविद्याकृतनामरूपोपाध्यनुरोधीश्वरो भवति, व्योमेव घटकरकाद्युपाध्यनुरोधि ; स च स्वात्मभूतानेव घटाकाशस्थानीयानविद्याप्रत्युपस्थापितनामरूपकृतकार्यकरणसङ्घातानुरोधिनो जीवाख्यान्विज्ञानात्मनः प्रतीष्टे व्यवहारविषये ;  

 

This is succinctly reflected in the Upadeshasaahasri by the Acharya in the prose section:  The commentary of Sri Ramatirtha brings out the purport very well. The translation of the Upadeshasaahasri is available but the commentary may not be there. 

 

 

 

The commentary of Sri Ramatirtha is given below:

 

The Upadeshasaashasri:

 

 

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Yes Dennisji 

The world was in the Asat state in the beginning 

Lord Krishna said that he is both Sat and Asat 

Later on when Arjun requested him to repeat th Gitopadesha the Lord said that when he gave the Gitopadesha, he was in yoga-yukta state

Jai Shri Krishna

Skb

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[dwa...@advaita.org.uk]

Sunilji,

 

‘unmanifest’ is not asat. As I said, the ‘is-ness’ of the world comes from brahman and brahman is ever sat.

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Denisji,

Sat came from Asat, so the shruti says.  He wanted to be any and hence the manifestation, so also says the Shruti. However I welcome other  interpretations, if the shruti says tha above, in any other way. 

Jai Shro Krishna

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

There was a  typo 

He wanted to be many, hence he manifested 

Jai Shri Krishna 

Sunil k b

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[dwa...@advaita.org.uk]

Sunilji,

 

Something cannot come from nothing. This is explicitly states by Shankara (although cannot immediately track down the reference.

The commentary of Sri Ramatirtha is given below:

 

The Upadeshasaashasri:

 

 

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dennisji 

Asat is a term that has been used to describe the unmanifested

That’s how Sat came from Asat  has been expressed in Shruti.

In the Ajatavada, there was nothing before creation, and nothing 

Visible will remain at the end of the creation; but the Nirguna Brahman does exist and Shruti calls that Asat. Howevermuch one dislikes the use of the term Asat for the Unmanifested we have to use it and can’t quarrel with the Shruti. Hope you understand this application of the word Asat 

Jai Shri Krishna 

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[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

PraNAms to all.

I may be interjecting in the middle of some discussion.

Some of these discussions indicate that a sampradaya teacher is essential for a clear understanding of the truth.

1.   Truth is defined as sat-chit-ananda saruupam. And it is trikaala abhaaditam - that which remains the same all the time. It is of the nature of pure existence, consciousness, and limitless - Hence Brahman – the infiniteness. Infinite cannot come from anything or it can become anything. Hence ‘pure (unqualified) existence cannot come from anything and Chandogya starts with the statement that ‘sat’ alone was there before creation and it is one without a second. Uddlalak also says in that context ‘ some say asat alone was there before creation and it is one without a second. How can that be, how can existent universe can come from non-existence.’ He, therefore, confirms again that ‘sat alone was there before creation.

2.  Then Uddalaka goes into the apparent creation since no real creation can come from Brahman, being infinite and cannot undergo any modifications for creation to be real. He says first that existent sat is also chit swarupam and being infinite it is also Ananda swarupam. Hence creation can only mithyaa - sat-asat vilakshanam, neither existent (eternal) nor non-existent (since it is experienceable). Scripture is very logical also. 

3.   Krishna also reiterates the above statements by saying that that which is non-existence can never come into existence and that which is existent can never go into non-existence. Naasato vidyate bhaavo naabhavo vidyate sataH – an absolute law of conservation.

4.   Hence when scripture say ‘asat’ alone was there before creation -has to be interpreted – what was there before in non-experienceable universe (in subtle form) and creation the involve sat or experienceable universe.

5.   Hence the importance of the sutra – tattu samanvayaat – there is a coherency in the scriptural statements – to appreciate that a sampradaya teacher is essential.

Hari Om!

Sadananda

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Sadaji, Paranam.

Yes, you have rightly put it as follows:

<<Hence when scripture say ‘asat’ alone was there before creation -has to be interpreted – what was there before in non-experienceable universe (in subtle form) and creation the involve sat or experienceable universe.>>

Asat has to be interpreted as non-perceptible or what can't be experienced. It is the all-pervading divine consciousness. Modern science also agrees. Before the Big-Bang there was nothing perceptible, yet there was something, which  could cause the creation. The word "asamprAjna-samAdhi", used by Lord Ram does use the word "Asat", to mean the Nirgun Brahman. Even in the Padmapurana, If my memory serves me right, Lord Shiva said that his forthcoming avatara (probably the Lord meant the birth of Adi Shankaracharya) would appear to lead us to the Asat.

Jai Shri Krishna

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

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[davesx]

Namaste - This 'something' is the one undivided interdependent whole aka as  'Brahman' which is itself 'no thing' or rather not a defined 'thing'. So one can say there is no independent thing and simultaneously there is the omnipresent, everchanging Totality.

When the Upanishadic 'something' (ātman) became idolized by Brahmins as a 'thing', Buddha stepped in and emphasized the Asat aspect, that ātman is 'no thing' (anātman) remaining silent on any declaration.

Eventually Buddhism degraded into a form of nihilism and Shankara emerged emphasizing the Sat aspect. When confusion erupted among his followers Ramanuja and Madhavarcharya appeared on the scene with their own emphasis.

He who sees Sat in Asat and Asat in Sat reconciles the apparently conflicting views and is free from both views yet free to adopt any of these views to neutralize the fixation of the opponent.

-dave

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Daveji 

Lord Ram told Hanumanji about Atman and told that what is not Atman as Anatman 

Lord Buddha who claimed himself to be an avatara of  Lord Ram said the same thing. 
A Jivanmukta  , which is Bodhisattva in Buddha’s teachings and Sthitaprajna in Lord Krishna’s teachings, sees the worldly things as anitya or aniccha and hence anatman or not having permanence. 

Jai Shri Krishna 

skb 

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[davesx]

Namaste - This doesn't mean that RamanujAcharya or MadhavAcharya were not relevant in the lineage of Vedanta.

Ramanuja appeared the moment Shankara's Advaita Siddhanta was hijacked by claimants and charlatans who without direct realization, falsely believed they were Brahman (or God) swindling gullible followers, a phenomenon still and quite widespread in the spiritual market place both east and west.

Ramanuja debates were eloquent shutting up ignoramuses and instilling the disposition of listening, self-surrender and faith to trust 'That' which knows everything as it blossoms into being.

He equated 'That' with Vishnu -- the Supreme spirit of Life -- so devotees can have a more direct, intimate relationship.

-dave

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste Daveji,

Adi Shankara was born in 509 BCE and Shri ramanujacharya was born in 1017 BCE, and there was a big time-gap of gap of ~ 2500 years. Adi Shankara's Panchayatan Puja took care of the worship of Lord Vishnu, and for your kind information Adi Shankara's "Bhaja Govindam" is a sterling proof that Adi Shankara did not let down the Vaishnavas.  But It was the school of Shri Ramabujacharya, which  was the first to try to demean Advaitavada through the "Satadushani" etc. The majestic Advaitins were at the receiving eng during the tirades of the Vishashtadvaitins and the Dvaitins. Te latter school has even told that Adi Shankara was a demon reborn etc. It must have pained the lacs and croref of Indians  in the last one thousand years.

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

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[davesx]

Sunilji - Did you mean Ramanuja was born 1017 AD and died 1147 AD? If not your dates are more updated than the mainstream scholars.

Dave

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[Kuntimaddi Sadananda]

Sunilji - 

Accepted dates for Shankara are around the 7-8th century and that of Ramanuja is around the 11-12th Century and Madhvacharya around the 13-14th Century.

Hari Om!

Sadananda

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste Sadanandaji,

Adi Shankara did live in the 6th century BCE and there cannot be an iota of mistake. He visited Kashmir during the reign of king Nara II, who reigned for 35 years from 490 t0 455 BCE. Then there was the king Aksha, who reigned from 490 to 455 BCEand he was followed by King Gopaditya, who reigned  from 395 to 335 BCE, and he consecrated the image of Jyestheshvara and granted the agraharas of Gopa in Gopadri to Brahmins from Aryadesha and also established a colony of brahmins in Vischeka and other places and granted them agraharas. The hill on which the Jyaethshvara temple was located, came to be known as the Gopadri as well as the Shankaracharya hill and temple, after Adi Shankaracharya who visited that place.

Secondly, there was also a copper plate of king Sudhnva, and it mentioned the grants made by the king to Adi Shankaracharya and it was kept in  the Dwarka math. That copper plate was borrowed by the Dewan of Junagadh around 1890s, at the behest of the Archaeological Department, under the excuse of doing research, but the Dewan mysteriously died immediately after that and the copper plate could not be recovered by the Dwarka math. But the Dwarka math has the copy of the text of the inscription for examination.

Thirdly,  the Shankaramathas of (i) Dwarka, (ii) Puri, (iii) Tunga-Bhadra Sringeri and (iv) Kanchi Kamakoti maths have their guru parampara going back to 5th century BCE. Swami Vidyashankara Tirtha was the Mathadhipati in Tunga-Bhadra Shringeri math, when Kalik Kafur attacked Karnataka around 1310 AD (CE) and Swami Vidyashankara Tirtha had to escape to Kanchi Kamakoti math. Both swami Vidyatirtha and his brother Swami Vidyaranya had their training in Kanchi Kamakoti math under Swami Vidyashanka Tirtha. After their training they came back to the Tunga-Bhadra Shringeri math in Kudali, near Shimoga. Later on  they set up the Tunga Shringerui math, as they got all the financial and other help for setting up the math from their disciples, the kings Hukka and Bukka of the Vijayanagara kingdom. Thus that Tunga Shringeri branch math started only in the 14th century CE.

From the details we have from the Brihat Shankara Vijaya that Adi Shankara was born in the Nandana year and the other details confirm that Adi Shankara indeed was born in 509 BCE.

Jai Shri Krishna

Sunil KB

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Daveji,

I understand Shri Ramanujacharya passed away in 1137  CE (and not in 1147 CE), at the age of 120 years.

skb

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[simh...@yahoo.com]

Harih om.

Subbuji

Thanks for the reference to US prose section.

🙏

Ram Mohan ji....

Which are the "EIGHT THINGS" WE ACCEPT AS ANAADI in VEDANTA.

I recall 6.

Dhanyavaadaah.

Lakshmeesh

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[Rammohan Subramaniam]

Hari Om

You are right there are six terms which are anAdi. I am sorry for the mistake.

Thanks for pointing out

Shri Rammohan

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