Prof KS Bhagavan's denigration of Sri Shankaracharya -

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suresh srinivasamurthy

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May 6, 2022, 5:17:28 PMMay 6
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Namaste,

In this youtube video titled "Mukta samvada Nera maathu", Prof KS Bhagavan is openly denigrating 
Sri Shankaracharya for supporting casteism and even says Swami Vivekananda says the same in the 
"Complete works of Swami Vivekananda". I glanced through Swami Vivekananda's book but did
not find any reference. 

Sometime ago, I made a humble attempt to refute his false allegations in my blog, but would like
to know if any advaitin/scholar in this forum has written or published any book/video to refute the same.
If not, it is really high time Hindus/VedAntins from all traditions to unite and provide fitting reply to these
pseudo scholars. 

Dhanyosmi,
Suresh

Sundar Rajan

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May 8, 2022, 11:21:09 AMMay 8
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sunil bhattacharjya

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May 9, 2022, 2:04:23 AMMay 9
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Dear Sureshji,

That professor is a gone case. He is incompetent to interpret Hindu shastra.   He does not know even the definition of who is shudra. By birth all are shudras. He does not know who is dvija, when and how one can become Dvija. So forget about such ignorant professor.

skb

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Sundar Rajan

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Jun 12, 2022, 4:15:29 PMJun 12
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Learned members of this forum probably are familiar with Arjuna's concern about what happens to a Yogi who doesn' accomplish his goal and Lord Krishna's response:

पूर्वाभ्यासेन तेनैव ह्रियते ह्यवशोऽपि स: ।
For by that very past practice, he is carried forward even in spite of himself.

Here is a classic case of that - you can't get any better instance of "inspite of himself" than a Muslim man finding Yoga.




sunil bhattacharjya

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Jun 13, 2022, 2:11:12 PMJun 13
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Dear Sundarrajanji,

Who is this M? What is his full name. He should have the moral courage to tell his true name, as at present. Lord Krishna said that Truth is Dharma and the Sanatana dharma is all about truth.

As regards what Lord Krishna said about a yogi taking his next birth, it is as follows:  
Lord Krishna said that a yogi, after his death, takes birth in a family of Yogis, so that he gets a conducive environmrnet for his spiritual pursuits, in his next birth (right from the day of his birth). So Mr. M. does not strictly fall in this category

If Mr. M. finds the Sanatana dharma to his liking, it is well and good. In the Sanatana dharma we all are children of the divnity and in Advaita we seek to retrace our journey to become one with our source of origin. The Quran came through the 'Rasul' (or 'Messenger') Mohammad, and the Quran has a full chapter on Mary, the mother of Jesus and the Quran has also mentioned Jesus. We know that Jesus came to India at the beginning of his 13th year  and stayed in India for 16 years before returning to his motherland. One gospel of the Bible clarifies that Prophet Jesus was justified in calling himself the son of God, as he understood the real meaning of that statement  (i.e., that we all are the children of one God and therefore we all are brothers and sisters). In one of our puranas we find that When Jesus had to escape back to India (due to some hostilities to his teachimgs, in his mother-land), the Indian king Shalivahana met him. Jesus breathed his last In Kashmir. One German scholar (Offhand, I don't recall his name) showed the many simi;arities between the Bible and the Bhagavad Gita. 

My 2 cents
skb



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Ravindra Shivde

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Jun 14, 2022, 4:07:53 AMJun 14
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Dear Sunilji,

Who is this M? What is his full name. He should have the moral courage to tell his true name, as at present. Lord Krishna said that Truth is Dharma and the Sanatana dharma is all about truth.

M's full name is mentioned in the subject itself as Mumtaz Ali Khan. 

After initiation into Nath Path he was named Madhukar Nath. At the order of his Guru he has reverted back to a householder's life. Perhaps he is not using his original name as he has reached a different spiritual phase in life.

I think he is a genuine Yogi.

- Ravindra Shivde




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sunil bhattacharjya

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Jun 14, 2022, 8:06:08 AMJun 14
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Dear Ravindraji,
If his current name is Madhukar Nath. He should use his current name. There is no problem in yogi’s marrying. I am sure his guru knew that great yogi like Yajnavalkya too married. If and when he (Madhukar Nathji) uudesires to go back to sanyasa, he can do so with the approval of his wife, after arranging the livelihood for his family. It is that easy. Don’t you agree? That will be compatible with the genuineness of a yogi. After all truth is dharma.

skb

Sent from my iPhone

Sundar Rajan

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Jun 15, 2022, 9:27:16 PMJun 15
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Dear Sunilji, I am not sure what the fixation on the name is? One of the most well known dialogues is “Gospel of Ramakrishna” , this was written by a person only known as “M”.

If members watched the video, they will find a number of connections to not only the 6th chapter, also Sankara’s commentary on Mundaka Upanishad and so on. I will try and get to that soon.

Regards 

sunil bhattacharjya

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Jun 16, 2022, 2:50:49 PMJun 16
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Dear Sunderji,

What Mumtaz Ali Khan has done conforms to the Quranic principle of Taqiya, where for survival among the non-muslims, one can adopt a precautionary dissimulation or denial of religious belief and practice of one's own religion, and this is not considered a lie.

Best
skb

Ravindra Shivde

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Jun 19, 2022, 4:19:52 AMJun 19
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Dear Sunilji,

It was not a case of Taqiya. Mumtaz Ali Khan did not have a problem of survival. His ancestors, who had migrated from North East Frontier Province to Kerala were serving as Royal bodyguards to the King of Travancore and consequently occupied a prestigious position in the society. Moreover, his adoption of the yogic path was entirely voluntary and not under any kind of duress

- Dr Ravindra Shivde.





sunil bhattacharjya

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Jun 19, 2022, 12:22:25 PMJun 19
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Dear Ravindraji,

You can have your interpretation to yourself. Surely Mumtal Ali Khan is a devout Muslinm and the Muslims are happy at what he has done.

skb

putran M

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Jun 19, 2022, 2:45:33 PMJun 19
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Namaskaram Shivde-ji, if I don't overthink it, I am inclined to your perception of him. His transformation process seems natural and sincere. However there is one curious aspect with regard to this name thing. Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_M) says he is married to Sunanda Sanadi whereas this site that seems devoted to his work says "Sunanda Alihttps://www.magentapress.in/page/about-sri-m. Moreover his children are named Roshan and Aisha, which again are Islamic names.

I do wish people who embrace the sanatana dharma will do so at the name level as well. It matters in vyavahara, at least. 

thollmelukaalkizhu

ravi chandrasekhara

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Jun 19, 2022, 7:47:57 PMJun 19
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Shri M's books are wonderful but his wife Sunanda ,  is a Kannada Brahmin; children obviuously are Muslim by name, but by faith don't know.

Ravi Chandrasekhara

sunil bhattacharjya

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Jun 20, 2022, 1:46:17 AMJun 20
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To my knowledge, when a Muslim gentlemman marries a Hindu girl, the girl becomes Muslim  and when she bears children, she also contributes  towards the  increase in Muslim population and that is appreciated by the Muslims.

My 2 cents,
skb

Kuntimaddi Sadananda

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Jun 20, 2022, 2:22:42 AMJun 20
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On Monday, June 20, 2022, 11:16:16 AM GMT+5:30, sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com> wrote:


To my knowledge, when a Muslim gentlemman marries a Hindu girl, the girl becomes Muslim  and when she bears children, she also contributes  towards the  increase in Muslim population and that is appreciated by the Muslims.

My 2 cents,
skb

Well they will kill her if she does not get converted. See all the movie actresses who married muslims.

my 2more cents
Sadananda

S Venkatraman

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Jun 20, 2022, 2:57:59 AMJun 20
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Namaste to all,

Instead of casting aspersions on other religions let us stick to what our religion tells us:

ॐ सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिनः
सर्वे सन्तु निरामयाः।
सर्वे भद्राणि पश्यन्तु मा कश्चिद्दुःखभाग्भवेत।
ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः।

At least adherents of Advaita should do so. Regards,

Venkat

Sent from my iPhone

On 20-Jun-2022, at 11:52 AM, 'Kuntimaddi Sadananda' via advaitin <adva...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


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Dilip

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Jun 20, 2022, 3:13:52 AMJun 20
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The fact that his son and daughter have Muslim names raises questions. 

I remember Swami Vivekananda insisted Margaret Noble to totally Indianise herself. Only then she became Sister Nivedita. He wanted her earlier identity erased so that there was total dedication to India. 

Similarly M’s total identity should have been Hindu if he claims that he is proud to be Hindu. There should be no place for contradiction. Even Tareq Fata and M J Akbar have  Sanskrit names for their children.

Sent from my iPhone

On 20-Jun-2022, at 12:27, S Venkatraman <sven...@gmail.com> wrote:

Namaste to all,

Bhaskar YR

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Jun 20, 2022, 4:26:38 AMJun 20
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praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

Sarve bhavantu sukhinaH, sarve santu nirAmayaH, sarve bhadrANi prashyantu not at all denied here.  But at the same time don’t we have the responsibility of dharma rakshaNa??  Being mere dharmabeeruH or dharma paripAlakaH is not enough we have to be sometime aggressively dharma rakshaka as well is it not ??  dharmO rakshati rakshitaH….saying goes..

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

Raman.M

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Jun 20, 2022, 6:45:52 AMJun 20
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Well, the same logic or argument was used to silence the Hindus and leave us at this stage we are in fear everytime a good law or initiative is being attempted. That person went on to be  crowned mahatma. I think every concept has a context where it is applicable. Rama did not follow it always, so did Krishna.

putran M

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Jun 20, 2022, 10:25:43 AMJun 20
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On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 6:45 AM Raman.M <mram...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, the same logic or argument was used to silence the Hindus and leave us at this stage we are in fear everytime a good law or initiative is being attempted.


 What but design of darkness [anarchism] to appall?--
If design govern in a thing [choice of name] so small.”


sunil bhattacharjya

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Jun 20, 2022, 1:17:19 PMJun 20
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Namaste,

The advaitins do have to care for the Vyavaharika satya also, along with the clear understanding of the principles of advaita. There is nothing wrong if an advaitin is able to understand the detrimental aspects of the 20th century phenomenon called the  Love-Jehad, though we are not at all against true love - marriages.

skb

Sundar Rajan

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Jun 29, 2022, 11:22:40 AMJun 29
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Namaste,

This conversation has drifted in a direction I didn't intend, that is cool. This forum is for discussions anyway.

Sringeri Acharyal humorously remarked when a was student asked what he learnt from the study of  Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, the student answered Yagnavalkya had two wives!

I haven't read any of Mumtaz Ali Khan's books. Also, not suggesting anyone follow him as a Guru or anything like that. 

However listening to his spiritual journey, few things caught my attention:
  • Unmistakable initiation into Yoga (encountering Babaji at the age of 9 in his backyard and blessed by him)
  • After that incident, Classic progress in Meditation (pleasantness, ease of being able to do it daily)
  • Intense Jignasa (leaving home at 19 and seeking a Master)
Myself (and V.Subrahmanyam-ji) both can relate to another classic Yogi (who shall remain nameless) whose Spiritual Journey was similar.

This also reminds me of Sankara's commentary on the Mundaka Upanishad mantra Dwa Suparna Sayuja Sakhaya Samanam Vriksam Pariswajate on the word  muhyamanah (Paraphrasing)
That soul born among beasts, men and others, perchance shown the path of Yoga, as a result of his past good deeds, by some very compassionate person and then becoming  endowed with yama..dharana..dhyana etc, pasyati, sees, yada, when, while engaged in Mediation.

- Namaskar

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S Venkatraman

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Jun 29, 2022, 11:54:46 AMJun 29
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Can I humbly request those who post to mention their names at the end of their posts? For example the post below, I really cannot make out who it is from. Just a request. Thank you,

Venkat

Sent from my iPhone

On 29-Jun-2022, at 8:52 PM, 'Sundar Rajan' via advaitin <adva...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Sundar Rajan

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Jun 29, 2022, 11:58:39 AMJun 29
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Sorry, I am not active in this form and an occasional poster - Sundar Rajan (live in Northern California). Thanks for pointing out

 

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sunil bhattacharjya

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Jun 29, 2022, 2:08:56 PMJun 29
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Dear Venkataramanji,

Pardon my curiosity. You have rightly asked Sundar Rajanji regarding not writing his name below his message. In our(including yours and mine) messages, one can check the sender's email id, but why the samechecking can't be done in case of Sundar Rajaji's mail. Why is his email hidden?

Regards,
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya


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sunil bhattacharjya

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Jun 29, 2022, 2:13:09 PMJun 29
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Sorry Veenkataramanj,

Please read
"Why is his email hidden?"
corrected as follows:
Why is his email-id hidden?

Regards
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

sunil bhattacharjya

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Jun 29, 2022, 2:37:41 PMJun 29
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Sorry Venkataramanji,

I mis-spelled your name in my last email.

Regards,
Sunil KB

Sundar Rajan

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Jun 29, 2022, 3:00:59 PMJun 29
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Dear Sunil-ji,

I can assure you the email-id is not hidden due to my yogic powers 😊

We’ll have to refer it to the Group admin. It is probably a setting.

Thanks 

sunil bhattacharjya

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Jun 29, 2022, 5:28:20 PMJun 29
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Dear friends,

Seeing the response from Sundar Rajanji, I was thinking that he would say : "Here is my email id". But I was disappointed on seeing his reply. He is not at all unhappy that his identity is not appearing in his mail.

Regards,
skb

Sundar Rajan

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Jun 29, 2022, 6:44:17 PMJun 29
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My email id is avsund...@yahoo.com
Sorry, I still don't know why it is not appearing. As I mentioned, a techie or admin needs to debug this.

Thanks


putran M

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Jun 29, 2022, 8:29:39 PMJun 29
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Namaskaram,

These are individual decisions. There are no obligations to reveal your email id to the world (as you know this site is publicly displayed at https://groups.google.com/g/advaitin). We are here to discuss advaita and related topics, not to splatter our identities across the internet - which as we know can be hazardous given the direction of certain topics and even otherwise we may not want people outside this circle to know or imagine. 

I also don't know why some id's show up in member emails and others don't.

thollmelukaalkizhu

Indian Rediff

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Jul 4, 2022, 10:48:48 AMJul 4
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Hari Om,

I, too, have read his Autobiography. And what struck me was the closeness of the journey and incidents to 'Autobiography of a Yogi' by Paramahansa Yogananda. Now obviously Yoganandaji took the route of Kriya Yoga (which involves being trained in specific breathing technique(s) to my minimal knowledge), whereas Sri M's teachings are far closer to Advaita. But the parallels - running away from home at a young age, vision of his guru as a child, yearning to go to the Himalayas, hearing about mystic practises etc - are many and interesting.

Sri M's teachings are very close to Adi Shankaracharya's (again, to my limited knowledge).

Sai


Nitin Shankar

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Aug 3, 2022, 9:47:08 AMAug 3
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Namaste,

Just because, an individual ran away to the Himalayas, does Yoga, Kriya, meditation, once in a while quotes Vedantic verse and conducts talks, and/or interprets Upanishads according to his understanding doesn't conform to being an Advaitin or Sanatani. Basic Vedic & Vedantic tenets cannot be ignored/criticized. He has contradicted Vedic Parampara himself by doing "Manav Ekta Misson" where he tries to Synthesize Hindu - Muslim teachings which are inherently opposing to itself. How could he be a Vedic Sanatani albeit Advaitin? 

This Man "Sri M'' claims that he was an "Orthodox" Brahmin Three Janma back (in his past life) and because of this "Orthodoxy", he did not help a Muslim Fakir when the latter asked. Since he did not help; this Muslim Fakir "Committed Suicide" to make Sri M be born in a Muslim Family to understand the pain of a Muslim Fakir. Till Date, he tells, he doesn't have thought of the need to convert to "Hinduism". All these are not Mumbo Jumbo conspiracies but he has said, "On Record". 

He categorically says, His Life Mission is to Negate or correct those who misinterpret Islam and/or misinterpret similarities in Santana Dharma & Islam. He even whitewashes the Violent history of Islam. All these are on record! He is clearly an Islam Apologist. In his talks, he references certain Hadits which are not core to the Islamic Teachings. Sometimes, he blabbers Urdu words which are not there anywhere in Quran or Hadith and connects to vague summon Bonum spirituality.  Further, he references or synthesizes Sufism - Vedanta which is completely absurd. 

I being a practitioner of Sanatana Dharma, and a beginner student of Advaita Vedanta would like to follow a person who sticks his neck on these. Explains the basic tenets of Veda - Vedanta Jnaana.  Not a person who takes a few things from everywhere and makes his talks/books more appealing for everyone under the garb of spirituality. Jaggi Vasudev, Mumtaz, etc. fall under a certain category more like pop culture in spirituality or RSS Kind Organisation in Spirituality. 

Sankara, with my limited understanding, in his teachings emphasizes objective thinking rather than an emotional one. Just because someone coughed, blabbered, smiled & referenced Vedanta doesn't mean we have to share his works, talks, etc. 



Regards
Nitin






--
Regards
Nitin Shankar
"Anything that brings Spiritual,Mental,or Physical Weakness, touch it not with the toes of your feet.''

DR. PRASAD BULUSU

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Aug 3, 2022, 10:44:37 AMAug 3
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namaskaram ! 


परीक्ष्य लोकान् कर्मचितान् ब्राह्मणो
निर्वेदमायान्नास्त्यकृतः कृतेन ।
तद्विज्ञानार्थं स गुरुमेवाभिगच्छेत्
समित्पाणिः श्रोत्रियं ब्रह्मनिष्ठम् ॥ 

Mundaka U. 4 - 1 - 12

a Guru should be one who is both Srotriyam and  BrahmaNishtham ;

BrahmaNishtham -- is regarding his firm establishment in the Ultimate Truth

Srotriyam -- is regarding the purity of the body  ( a 'product'  of the three Guna s ) , purity of the panchakosa s , which is possible only in a 
'Srotriya'  person

thus , both the Paramaarthika  &  Vyaavahaarika  aspects  in  the  Guru  are  taken  care of 

only  such  a  person  should  be  followed  &  He only has  the  capacity  to  be  in  a  Gurusthaana

i  am  ready  to  get  corrected

namaskaram ! 

dr  bulusu  prasad




sunil bhattacharjya

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Aug 3, 2022, 2:37:09 PMAug 3
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Dear Nitinji,

Mr. Mutaz Khan tried to define the meaning of the term "Sufi", and I can't agree with his definitions. To my knowledge, "Suf" means knowledge and "Sufi" means a knowledgeable person. The Sufis believe in rebirth, whereas the muslims don't.

Secondly, during Rasul (Messenger) Muhammad's time some zorashtrians were caught by the Arabic conquerors and these were sold as servants  and the Rasul purchased a few of them and made them his companions, as they were intelligent and  Rasul himself, though illiterate, was very intelligent. There is even a Hadith where Rasul Mahammad advised his people to pay heed to what the Sufi's say, as otherwise they would become deaf. Of course, some Muslims believe this Hadith to be not genuine.

The Sufis have their own non-Islamic rites and ceremonies for initiation to sufism, and many Muslims don't consider sufi's to be Muslims. Prince Dara Sikoh became a sufi and Aurangzeb gave him death penalty for getting converted to Sufism, on the advice of the clergy. Muslims  are not supposed to have tombs as there is no tomb for the Rasul himself and the past caliphs in Saudi Arabia. But past Sufis in India have huge tombs, and many orthodox muslims could be wondering at this.

My 2 cents
skb



sunil bhattacharjya

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Aug 3, 2022, 2:52:11 PMAug 3
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Sorry Nitinji,

Sorry for the slip. His name was Mumtaz Ali Khan.

skb

Sundar Rajan

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Aug 3, 2022, 5:41:31 PMAug 3
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Dear Dr Prasad,

Yes the characteristics of a Guru you posted “Srotriyam and  BrahmaNishtham” are well known and I doubt anyone disputes that.

Did any one say we should follow him as a Guru? I was the one ‘opened’ this discussion and specifically said not to consider him a Guru!  Even as the title of my post says his early life is a use case (it is a software term meaning an example of a situation ) of a  Yoga Brashta. That’s all..

See below!


>> 
I haven't read any of Mumtaz Ali Khan's books. Also, not suggesting anyone follow him as a Guru or anything like that. 

However listening to his spiritual journey, few things caught my attention:
  • Unmistakable initiation into Yoga (encountering Babaji at the age of 9 in his backyard and blessed by him)
  • After that incident, Classic progress in Meditation (pleasantness, ease of being able to do it daily)
  • Intense Jignasa (leaving home at 19 and seeking a Master)
Myself (and V.Subrahmanyam-ji) both can relate to another classic Yogi (who shall remain nameless) whose Spiritual Journey was similar.
>>

At my work, they tell me humorously that I like to poke a bear! 

True to do that, good to see this livened up discussions 😊

Aravinda Rao

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Aug 3, 2022, 9:39:54 PMAug 3
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Namaskars, 
Mr. Nithin has critically evaluated the position of M. My earlier note on the subject is similar, as I had a personal interaction with M once and saw his shallowness. It is unfortunate that most of the so-called educated Hindus do not know the fundamentals of Vedanta and such persons get impressed by him. Some like him out of generous and universal good will. 
An interesting fact is brought out by Sunil ji about a Zoroastrian slave with Muhammad. The life history of Muhammad shows about his confidential meetings with some mystic, probably Christian or Zoroastrian. For those who are new to Muhammad (I was one such till recently), I recommend the books of the American Professor Bill Warner, who is actually a professor in Physics but got interested in Islam after the blast of twin towers in NY. His books, which are available on Amazon, are a sort of self-study course on Islam.   
Aravinda Rao

Praveen R. Bhat

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Aug 4, 2022, 12:01:35 AMAug 4
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Namaste Aravinda ji,

On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 7:09 AM Aravinda Rao <karav...@gmail.com> wrote:
 It is unfortunate that most of the so-called educated Hindus do not know the fundamentals of Vedanta and such persons get impressed by him. Some like him out of generous and universal good will. 

Unfortunately, most Hindus follow kara-leDhi-nyAya! Enough said.

Kind rgds,
--Praveen R. Bhat
/* येनेदं सर्वं विजानाति, तं केन विजानीयात्। Through what should one know That, owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */

Aravinda Rao

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Aug 4, 2022, 12:22:23 AMAug 4
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Namaste Praveen ji, 
kara-leDhi, 'licking the palm', in what sense? I have not heard. 
Aravinda Rao

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Praveen R. Bhat

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Aug 4, 2022, 12:30:00 AMAug 4
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Namaste Aravindaji,

On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 9:52 AM Aravinda Rao <karav...@gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste Praveen ji, 
kara-leDhi, 'licking the palm', in what sense? I have not heard. 


Oh! Sorry, I didn't explain earlier. It is used in the context of piNDaM hitvA karaM leDhi. When the entire pAyasa or tasty food is there in the plate, one is instead licking the bits sticking to the palm! I thought it fit here that most Hindus follow bits of Hinduism pop-ups or whatever, while giving up the entire sampradAya!

gurupAdukAbhyAm
--Praveen R. Bhat

Aravinda Rao

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Aug 4, 2022, 12:38:57 AMAug 4
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A very appropriate parallel. Thank you. 
Aravinda Rao 😊😊

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DR. PRASAD BULUSU

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Aug 4, 2022, 2:05:18 AMAug 4
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no sir , 

i didn't ever say that your advice was 
to follow him as a Guru

i  was  only  mentioning  the  Vedic  injunction  
( which  is  the  proper  authority  for  us )  
for  avoiding  him  as  Guru

namaskaram

On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 3:11 AM, 'Sundar Rajan' via advaitin

sunil bhattacharjya

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Aug 4, 2022, 5:23:57 PMAug 4
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Dear friends

Thank you for your clarification. Permit me to quote Shri Sundarji's innocent mail on the so-called rebirth and spiritual journey of  Mr. Khan, without any specific mention, not to consider him a Guru! :
Learned members of this forum probably are familiar with Arjuna's concern about what happens to a Yogi who doesn' accomplish his goal and Lord Krishna's response:
पूर्वाभ्यासेन तेनैव ह्रियते ह्यवशोऽपि स: ।
For by that very past practice, he is carried forward even in spite of himself.
Here is a classic case of that - you can't get any better instance of "inspite of himself" than a Muslim man finding Yoga.
It was clear that the claim of that person could be absurd, particularly because the Muslims don't believe in reincarnation. Rightly or wrongly, it could have also appeared to some of us, as if Shri Sundarji was swayed by the claim of that person. Thanks to Sundarji that he clarified his stand.

My 2 cents
skb

Sundar Rajan

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Aug 7, 2022, 2:17:02 PMAug 7
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Dear Dr Prasad,

 You mentioned the well known characteristics of the Guru = Srotriyam + BrahmaNishtam from the Mundaka Upanishad. Perhaps not so well known is a third characteristic Sankara hints at. A little further along on the same text, while commenting on the word muhyamanah (Paraphrasing) That soul born among beasts, men and others, perchance shown the path of Yoga, as a result of his past good deeds, by some very compassionate person.

I believe he is referring to a Jnani who is also an accomplished Yogi who can lead a yogic inclined disciple or Yoga Bhrashta  in the spiritual journey. So, the Guru in this case is: Srotriyam + BrahmaNishtam + Accomplished Yogi. Why so? Such a Guru is able to ‘see’ where the seeker is on the yogic path and assist him along while a Srotriyam alone may not be able to.

 Here is a little Venn diagram illustrating my point

 Inline image

Regards

 


DR. PRASAD BULUSU

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Aug 8, 2022, 3:14:31 PMAug 8
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resp.  sir , 

what you explained so well 
( esp.with an accompanying venn diagram )
is 100% true

Guru who is Srotriya  &  BrahmaNishtha and  who  also happens to have  the ease of Yogic Dexterity is at an advantage than One who is just Srotriya  &  BrahmaNishtha

probably Maharshi Vas'ishtha , Maharshi VedaVyasa & S'ri Adi S'ankara Bhagavatpada  are all  such 3-pronged  persons  

here I have a doubt : 

don't the Yogic processes spontaneously become a part&parcel  ( the natural make-up ) of  a  BrahmaNishtha 
(  though He was not a practitioner of Yoga in poorvas'rama  )  ?

namaskaram

Sundar Rajan

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Aug 9, 2022, 5:20:31 PMAug 9
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Namaste Dr Prasad,

>> here I have a doubt :  don't the Yogic processes spontaneously become a part&parcel  ( the natural make-up ) of  a  BrahmaNishtha ( though He was not a practitioner of Yoga in poorvas'rama  )  ?
>> 

As to your question whether the Yogic processes become part & parcel of their repertoire, I am not sure. Especially if they have not practiced in the past.


Commenting on the Mandukya Karika evaṃ yo veda tattvena kalpayetso'viśaṅkitaḥ (II.30), Shankara says only the knower of the self can truly understand the import of the Vedas. So, a Jnani will be able to answer the queries on the import of scriptures etc, for a regular Sadhaka for sure. May also be able to answer general questions on Yoga practices based on the scriptures.

This is all assuming a student is asking questions. What if someone has no questions 😊. This is the case with Yoga Bhrastas and those with past good deeds – often they are unaware of the potential and may even be antagonistic to the spiritual path. If they perchance comes across a Yogic Guru then He is able to spot their potential and kick start their journey. This is what the Mundaka commentary is referring to (IMO). It is pretty amazing and life changing if you think about it. We have examples in the lives of Vivekananda , Paramahamsa Yogananda etc. 

Regards

 



Bhaskar YR

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Aug 10, 2022, 1:13:15 AMAug 10
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praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

here I have a doubt :  don't the Yogic processes spontaneously become a part&parcel  ( the natural make-up ) of  a  BrahmaNishtha ( though He was not a practitioner of Yoga in poorvas'rama  )  ?

 

Ø     When we try to interlink the  yOga’s samAdhi experience (as per pAtanjali) with brahmanishtata of Advaita jnAni then perhaps the answer is yes.  But that is not the case here, yOga is dvaita shAstra is pUrvapaksha to Advaita like sAnkhya.  And in both sushupti and samAdhi jnAnAbhAva type avidyA will be there explains bhAshyakAra.  So in short, for the experience / realization of vedAntic truth not reserved for adepts in pAtanjala yOga.  Some well known vyAkhyAnakara-s (post shankara era) were very eager to link the Advaita jnana with that of pAtanjali’s yOga samAdhi experience.  Hence as per their book, a simple word drashtavyaH means for them is the experience in samAdhi or mystic trance!! And intuition / Advaita jnana can happen ONLY in yOga’s asamprajnAta samAdhi and when he comes out of that trance state he would continue to perceive duality due to defect engendered by the prArabdha karma phala.  More details about these type of assertions can be found in works like paNchapAdika vivaraNa, bhAmati of vAchaspati Mishra, prakaraNa grantha-s like VC, JMV, PD etc. By any stretch of imagination here it is not an attempt to belittle the pAtanjala’s ashtanga yOga but it is to make it clear experience of samAdhi etc. not directly inclined when an Advaita sAdhaka pursuing jnana mArga. However for shama damAdhi advaitic sAdhana yama, niyamAdi first five anga-s from pAtanjala’s ashtanga yOga preferred.  But vedAntic dhyAna and samAdhi not directly related to dvaita yOga shAstra’s dhyAna and samAdhi. 

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

 

Sundar Rajan

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Aug 10, 2022, 1:42:28 AMAug 10
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Pranams, 

Boy, Like clockwork this topic draws people out of the woodwork, doesn’t it 😊? It’s all fun!

Deja vu - all these concerns (some imaginary) raised below were addressed adequately by Sri Vidyasankar Sundaresanji some two decades ago. Now they are reappearing again and will be addressed in separate posts soon. 

One note: It is not like the yoga sampradaya magically occurred centuries after Shankara. That’s a mistaken notion. There were always Jnanis with yogic prowess thruout  history, even predating Shankara. And their yoga is not Patanjali but  the yoga of the sixth chapter of Gita, Mundaka Upanishads, Katha Upanishads and Mandukys Karika.

Regards 

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Bhaskar YR

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Aug 10, 2022, 2:22:05 AMAug 10
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praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

Boy, Like clockwork this topic draws people out of the woodwork, doesn’t it 😊? It’s all fun!

 

Ø     Yes prabhuji, it’s all just for fun!! Neither I have samAdhi experience nor a brahmanishTa 😊  And thanks for calling me ‘boy’ though I am 55 already 😊

 

Deja vu - all these concerns (some imaginary) raised below were addressed adequately by Sri Vidyasankar Sundaresanji some two decades ago. Now they are reappearing again and will be addressed in separate posts soon. 

 

Ø     During those discussions Sri Vidyasankara Sundareshan prabhuji himself agreed that pAtanjali’s dhyAna & samAdhi is something different from adhyAtmika yOga in Advaita vedAnta.  If you have his paper wi