Ulterior motive

[Bob1357]

Is there an ulterior motive behind (before) every comment and every
question?

[Gary]

Was there such a motive involved in your posting?
My motive in posting is in line with my question and in keeping with
the goals of this site.

[Bob1357]

Yes,
There was ulterior motive.
Quickly:
A friend says it will help me by giving him a 1099 stating he made
$10,000.00 this year.
Less taxes for me.
Shows something extra for him(for what ever reason needed), although
he will pay US taxes on $10,00000.
That is tax fraud and I am not doing it.
He certainly has an ulterior motive, what it is, I do not know.
Perhaps to have something over me for the rest of my life?
There is a little box on every US tax return asking for additional
income .... put $10,000.00 in that box an that is the extra income.

I think if we look into ulterior motives a little more, a better
insight into helping others will open up.

Perhaps I am off cue within this forum to some.
Should I dismiss this as just things are?
Perhaps I should dismiss this guy (no friend would ask that).

[godszen]

Bob1357 wrote:
> Is there an ulterior motive behind (before) every comment and every
> question?

sometimes, sometimes not

[Bob1357]

Let me explain my thought process behind my original question.
A self realized or enlightened person, should not have an ulterior
motive behind things said, because there would be nothing to hide,
disguise, build up, show off, be ashamed of, ect...
A person "in the dark" usually has all kinds of things to hide,
disguise, build up, show off, be ashamed of, ect...
Perhaps I'm just thinking into things to much, but this clearer
understanding of what motivates people to say the things they say, has
made my social interactions go from Chess to Shoots and Ladders
(complicated to easy).
Also when someone "Shits in their diaper" and is looking for "Mamma to
change things", it is easier to point at what the real problem is.
I have notice that people do not respond well when the truth of their
problem is pointed to.
Candy coat it, "Change that diaper", stroke that ego and their right
back to being happy, sleeping like a baby, "suckling on Mamma's
tit" .... soon to shit in that diaper again and start the whole
process over.
I have always loved helping people selflessly, the problem is, that up
until recently, due to what I have learned and unlearned in this
group. I have realized that I never helped anybody. I have been
changing diapers all my life. That is not helping, that is enabling.
Just feeling like a fool, that's all.
No wonder why everybody loves Bob.
Bob is such a nice guy.
What a great guy.
This is going to be a huge pivotal point in my life.
Every thing I knew was wrong.
Everything I said was wrong.
Every way I have helped anyone was wrong.
There is no way I can continue being wrong.
I can not turn this off and pretend I never understood.
If I did, I would be living a lie for the rest of this life.
Being true to yourself is everything.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Meet Bob the bastard.
The bastard that cares, but nobody knows he cares.
I guess I can live with that.
What else can be done?
It just is.

[Rodger]

'To thine own self be true'.

Learn to forgive the ignorance of others.After all,you were ignorance
once.

Give one a fish,feed them for the day.Teach them to fish,feed them a
lifetime.

When the student is ready the teacher will appear.

People respond the way people respond.Tend to your own response.

Sow the seed,you will reap the crop.

The fool persisting in their follies shall become wise.
Or not.

Venting is kinda like shitting your diaper.

> > sometimes, sometimes not- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Bob1357]

<Venting is kinda like shitting your diaper.>

Don't suppose you would clean me up ......Didn't think so.
Like a mentioned before, I talk things out with myself in this forum.

[Rodger]

The misery not yet come is to be avoided.

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Ram]

Know that it's all not true and play your part well.

I've heard that song "Everybody Loves Bob" but I thought they were
talking about Bob Marley.

[godszen]

Bob1357 wrote:
> I have always loved helping people selflessly, the problem is,

the problem is..... if you're helping people "selflessly", the idea "I
have always loved helping people" wouldn't arise, because the sense of
"I" isn't there (for the most part)

so in your case it's the ego that loves to help selflessly, and it's
apparently been helping egos more than anything else, which is usually
the case

[Rodger]

I think I disagree with you,godszen.Little bit,anyway.Could
be,though,I'm just misunderstanding you.
I'm not sure that loving to help others is an idea,exactly.

Ram says to play our roles well.I think a well played role involves
loving the role we play (as helper)but,with a detachment that doesn't
interfer...or offer a sense of interference...or,whatever it is I'm
trying to say.

[Bob1357]

The truth is, Godzen is right within his perspective of my post, which
he could only get from what I wrote.
I have been ignorant "in the dark" all my life.
I thought, "I loved to help people selflessly".
I should have used the word unselfishly instead of selflessly.
I did not even know non duality existed one year ago.
Yes, "I have always loved" = look at me, look what I did for so an so,
was me stroking my own ego.
Yes, I was enabling the egos, ego helping ego.
Which is fine, but I was unknowingly hurting more than helping.
I did not know what the truth was until a little while ago.
Nice dissection Godzen, solid and to the point.
:)
I don't think one should interfere without being asked to.
Anybody have any thoughts on that?

[godszen]

Rodger wrote:
> I think I disagree with you,godszen.Little bit,anyway.Could
> be,though,I'm just misunderstanding you.
> I'm not sure that loving to help others is an idea,exactly.

"I love to help others" comes from the solid sense of "I,me, an
individual amongst other individuals", I'm going to say that its
solidity is a mental construct that is deeply imbedded in the mind, it
will not be understood until it collapses

[DIK]

"The Virtue of Selfishness", an interesting read. We do what we want
to do because we always have choice. To help or not to help is
meaningless. We make a choice and that choice is always selfish. You
help because you "love to help others". You eat because you love to
eat....etc. The Control Freaks would like to put you into a prison of
your mind where you feel guilty for being selfish because that is all
you really can be is selfish. If you weren't selfish you would be
dead now.

[Richard]

I’ve been in this group five years or so and have been dreading the
day someone would ask that question

There has definitely been an ulterior motive here since day one.
Specifically it has been to spread covertly the tenets of Richardism.
(One day I went outside, put my hand on a rock, looked up to the sky
and declared, “I am a Richardist”. You can too.)

Into nearly every post I infuse a small portion of our doctrine (life
is a joke, you get to decide whether it’s a good joke or a cruel joke,
God is love, love is God, be nice to yourself in others, send money to
the founder).

[Rodger]

Loving to help others comes from the love for others.
Is not necessary for the mental construct to collapse in order to see
that it is a mental construct.The sense of I doesn't arise from a
mental construct.The sense of I gives rise to the mental construct.The
mental construct is imbedded in this sense of I.

Knowing that this mental construct isn't real is the understanding
(the seeing) that this mental construct isn's separate from this sense
of I...is the role played...the role I play.

Loving to help others and the love for others is the love for self and
the many other roles played,being played.

The ego cannot act alone.It isn't an independent entity.Is the sense
of I which is acting...role playing.Is playing out the role
imbedded.Loving to help others stems from the sense of I,is expressed
by this sense,through the role played.I cannot avoid role playing.

[Anandanand]

Hi Bob,

I have uploaded a poem 'Anyway' in the files section, you might
already have read it.

[Rodger]

Bob, when I spoke of interference I was meaning something like getting
in the other persons way...directing things for them...telling them
how they should act and be,etc.
I said I thought a well played role as helper involved a
detachment.The detachment involved is a detachment from 'the way
things ought to be'.

People respond the way people respond.Tend to your own response.The

misery not yet come is to be avoided.

Loving to help others is like letting the infant hold your finger as
they learn to walk.As you do,do you shout,'look at me,look at
me!'?.The love involved is...

> > > the case- Hide quoted text -

[Bob1357]

>Bob, when I spoke of interference I was meaning something like getting
in the other persons way...directing things for them...telling them
how they should act and be,etc.<

That is exactly what, "I don't think one should interfere without
being asked to." was referring to.

[Bob1357]

Rodger,
Saturday morning you typed:

>When the student is ready the teacher will appear.<

A little later Saturday morning, I was at a meeting (mandatory 12
meetings). We all took a break out in the parking lot. Most people
were huddled next to the building to block the wind and stay warm.
Bobby (a speaker, a spiritual person and mystic if you will) walks out
into the middle of the parking lot and is just standing there in the
cold and wind, just looking at the sky letting the sun heat his face.
He looks over at me and says,"You gotta be getting close, aren't you"?
Referring to being almost done with the classes. As I was replying, I
found myself standing next to him in the middle of the parking lot. We
talked for 15 minutes (95% he talked) about spirituality, truth, being
true to ones self and he also showed me how thought process is simply
the movement of consciousness. Thinking and rationalizing moves one
away from the truth. I am becoming more and more convinced that there
are no coincidences. Anyway, just wanted to share that.

[Rodger]

Thanks for sharing,Bob.

> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[godszen]

Bob1357 wrote:
>He looks over at me and says,"You gotta be getting close, aren't you"?

maybe he was talking about getting close to "Self"

> Thinking and rationalizing moves one
> away from the truth.

away from (still) presence

[Rodger]

Bob, What is convincing you that there are no coincidences?
Are you suggesting that the meeting in the parking lot with Bobby was
some sort of prearrangement?
If so,how do you suppose this prearrangement would work?

On Dec 13, 8:04 am, Bob1357 <bob135...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Richard]

"Thinking and rationalizing moves one
away from the truth. "

The truth is an effortless land. Take one step toward or away from it
and ego has risen to assert it's 2 cents worth of translation.

[Rodger]

More Dickardism? :)

[Bob1357]

>What is convincing you that there are no coincidences?<

Too many things clicking to be just coincidence.
Everything in this life just seems to fall into place.
There is almost a flow to it.
Also, I do believe consciousness creates or manifests.
Perhaps I am the one manifesting these things.
Perhaps I was looking for a "Bobbie" when he was standing in the
middle of a parking lot.
Why would he look directly at me, out of dozens of others and speak?
I knew he wanted me to join him.
I did without a thought.
Then he immediately starts talking of what I mentioned above.
There is something there or here, I just can't put my finger on it.
I'm not sure how it works.
Consciousness moving things around, playing, helping, not helping?
There are times when I can see everything unfolding and folding.
Maybe one day I will know. Maybe not.

[Rodger]

Isn't the coincidence a co-incident?

> > > and ego has risen to assert it's 2 cents worth of translation.- Hide quoted text -

[Bob1357]

Yes, a co-incident

[Rodger]

A co-incident.

So,are we talking about mutual arising...yin-yang and all that good
stuff?

You said,consciousness creates or manifests.
What do you think,does consciousness manifest it's opposite,or does
consciousness simply create opposites?

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Bob1357]

I can not answer your last question Rodger.
I do not understand how this occurs.
Could you explain it in simplistic terms?

[Rodger]

Do you think there is anything other than consciousness.If you do,what
do you think that would be?

[Rodger]

Anandanand, just getting around to reading that poem.
I like that!

> > > > the case- Hide quoted text -

[Bob1357]

>Do you think there is anything other than consciousness.If you do,what
do you think that would be?<

At this point on my path my answer is yes.
I think there are trees, mountains, animals, rivers and that the whole
universe exists.
I think that consciousness is the creator of all of it.
I think that one can exist within this physical universe as
consciousness.
Right or wrong that is what I think right now.
A year ago my answer would have been completely different.

[Richard]

"Without effort whatever you are 'you are'. With effort you cause a
stirring, that's why you are not your natural 'you are'." Nisargadatta

"By nature, originally and primarily your state is of no-being;
incidentally, there is beingness. When you don't dwell in beingness,
then you are in body-mind." Nisargadatta

"Be in the state that was 8 days before your conception." Nisargadatta

[godszen]

Richard wrote:
> "Be in the state that was 8 days before your conception." Nisargadatta

how is the average man to do that?

[Rodger]

'how is the average man to do that?'

godszen,what was it like 8 days before your conception?

[Rodger]

Borrowing from Ken Wilber...'not a state difficult to achieve but
impossible to avoid'.

> > how is the average man to do that?- Hide quoted text -

[Ram]

"how is the average man to do that?"

There is no man there, average or otherwise. The man must be left
behind in order to understand.

It's not difficult and it's not easy, for nobody.

"In another time's forgotten space Your eyes looked from your mothers
face..."
-Hunter/Garcia

[Rodger]

If there is no man,what man would you leave behind?

[Ram]

No man "there." You start drinking already?

> > -Hunter/Garcia- Hide quoted text -

[Rodger]

Ok,if no man "there" what man would you leave behind?

"Where" would you leave this no man..."there" or "here"?
And,"behind" what?

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Ram]

Yada, yada, yada....


If there is a man that doesn't understand, then that man should be
left behind.

Left to pass away.

[Rodger]

Aw,man!

Man to man,don't you think that rather insensitive?

[Richard]

Left by whom?

Thought I'd add my 2 yadas.

[Rodger]

Not by whom,Richard...to whom.

But I am confused as to who pass away is.

[Richard]

If it is left, you will be right. If it be held, you'll never behold.

Swami Bananananda (love them bananas)

[Anandanand]

> Swami Bananananda (love them bananas)

I thought you gaveup that title

[godszen]

> Swami Bananananda

hahaha....

[Richard]

On Dec 15, 1:30 pm, Ram <ram.samar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "how is the average man to do that?"
>
> There is no man there, average or otherwise. The man must be left
> behind in order to understand.

In a book about mythology, Robert Segal tells that a typical myth has
the hero leaving home, going to a foreign, enchanting land, and being
tempted to stay there forever. He goes on to say....

"In psychological terms, the ego is tempted to surrender itself to the
rediscovered unconscious, out of which it emerged. More precisely, the
temptation is to abandon not the ego itself but ego, or ordinary,
consciousness: consciousness of the external, everyday world. The ego
itself remains, for it is what does the abandoning."

[Ram]

Fascinating.

But how does a thought abandon another thought?

[Richard]

On Dec 18, 2:29 pm, Ram <ram.samar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Fascinating.
>
> But how does a thought abandon another thought?

Good point.

Maybe, the thought (or dream) of an ego-self, as a supposed reference
point, makes a shift from ordinary consciousness in the dream.

If I get better at this b.s. I'll be able to hang up my guru shingle.