CM and Adobe

[randa...@adobeforums.com]

A while back, with the help of Ann, Ramon, Lindberg, and a host of others, we looked at a problem I was having with strange colors mutating on my screen and Color Management. Part of the problem apparently was hardware related.

Over the last few days, I noticed if I created something in my AdobeRGB workspace and converted that to sRGB and then previewed in Firefox which I have set to color manage, that the colors were shifting to a more saturated palette. But not nearly as bad as previously.

I knew that the colors were fine in CS4 or Bridge and what they once looked like in Firefox when we went through that discussion. So, I knew that the images had not changed, and went to find out what had.

While the mutation was not as noticeable as last time, nor do I think my hardware was failing this time around, I decided to look at my ICC profiles and check and recheck all monitor profiles.

Then I thought after really looking closely at the images on my ACD, that it was most likely a software issue of the program reading the wrong profile, the laptop profile. There was no reason the the images when viewing on the ACD would look fine in CS4 or Bridge but then look more saturated in Firefox with color management or Safari.

So, I did a test.

I knew each screen was calibrated using ColorEyes2 with a Monaco OptixXR Pro puck. Each was verified. So, I set my laptop to the profile that my ACD uses, and you got it, the colors on my ACD when viewing an image were fine. This of course was after setting the profile and restarting.

So I don't care what my laptop screen looks like when using the Apple Cinema Display, but I do care that when using dual monitors, not only does FireFox appear to use the wrong profile at times, I have noticed that if one is not careful, that CS4 will do the same.

For now, when using both the laptop with the ACD I plan on just setting both to the profile I use for my ACD calibrated. Then I shouldn't ever see the colors start to mutate.

But my question, besides an Adobe product or Firefox or Safari, is there any program that is color managed to view jpgs that are created in CS4 that we can check and compare? I think Preview uses monitor RGB. I am not sold on the CM of Firefox or Safari. So if you work in an AdobeRGB workspace and convert an image to sRGB and want to view, besides Firefox or Safari, or other Adobe product, what program would one use?

I think either the programs are reading the wrong profile at times, or the mac is providing the wrong profiles at times. Either way, the colors look more saturated than they are at times when viewing in Firefox or Safari and yet look like intended in CS4 or Bridge. So something is causing the wrong profile to be read or used.

For now, the work around seems to be to use my ACD monitor profile as also the profile for the laptop. Bummer. But it works and so life goes on....

Thanks.

[J_Ma...@adobeforums.com]

Are you embedding sRGB when doing your tests? "Color managed" means, as best I can guess, that an application honors embedded profiles, and if a web browser, assumes sRGB for untagged images. But why would an app like Preview assume sRGB as opposed to monitorRGB? Or AppleRGB, or aRGB? And Safari assumes monitorRGB for untagged images, even though it is "color managed"...

[randa...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for responding. Yes, I am embedding the sRGB profile when testing. That is why I was looking for a non-browser app instead of Firefox or Safari. Something else to view them in.

Why would Bridge or CS4 show the images okay but not the browsers all of a sudden. So thought maybe checking in yet another app would clear the mystery.

Now, I did think of this... when things were working in the browsers on the ACD, and I had the laptop profile set on its own, I took Firefox and slid that from the ACD screen to the laptop screen. Just to view the something. I didn't notice if this was the exact time that the colors went to the saturated look on the ACD so guess I would have to test this.

I need to run errands now but will try to do this and report back here.

JM- I am still unclear as a newer mac user why any app would want to assume monitor RGB. As a previous PC user, I know if you calibrated your monitor, sometimes some app may use monitorRGB and not assume sRGB. But that was not the OS.

Anyway, if using MonitorRGB will only make your images look correct only on your monitor, then I think assuming sRGB would be a better route, though for now nothing is perfect ;)

[randa...@adobeforums.com]

I really think its the OS. When I go to Finder and view an image I am about to right click on and open in Firefox, even the image in the preview at the top will be saturated when I have the laptop one profile and the ACD with its profile. That tells me what I am about to see in Firefox will not be correct. Not sure why Adobe CS4 and Bridge will still display correctly.

Again, the work around seems to be to set both the laptop and ACD to the same profile. Now, I have not yet recalibrated the laptop but only verified the profile, so maybe I need to trash the profile for the laptop and recalibrate but I am out of time and need to head out and will do so later.

I have always been suspicious of the dual monitor system on this notebook. And have heard of others having problems as well when running a dual system though maybe not on a laptop.

Will test later and report.

[randa...@adobeforums.com]

Final conclusion:

I re-calibrated both the ACD monitor and the notebook. Same old problem. So I again tried to view the sRGB in Firefox using CM with BOTH the notebook and the ACD set to the same profile, the one for the ACD. All is well. Just a work around.

I won't say this is an issue Adobe can help with so will leave it at that and let this thread die.

I will say no doubt it is a mac issue and most likely either the macbook pro hardware/software or the OS being Leopard. Either way, I am yet to be impressed with a mac over a pc. With one, you get these issues and with the other, viruses.

Its a computer. And neither OS is perfect nor is their hardware. I have found so many issues with this piece of cr@p notebook that I wish I could afford to get rid of it. But it does what it does and I work around it.

So JM, thanks for responding but I have a feeling the only fix is to once again format and reload, just like a pc. Though my hard drive is only half full and half available and I do not have ten thousand fonts loaded nor anything crazy, it just misbehaves like PCs.

If vendors would only work on stability for a moment and forget adding more problems called bells and whistles, we may yet one day see a solid performer. Until then, this macbook pro is not worth the money spent, nor has any system to date.

When I built my own clone PCs and stayed with win2000 I had a system that finally was almost bullet proof. Then they had to go to XP and worse yet... Vista.

My unfortunate need to upgrade finally to either Vista or Leopard has just shown poor timing. I know many here have yet to upgrade from Tiger. We will see what the future holds. Till then, we will continue to find our work arounds.

thanks...

[g_ba...@adobeforums.com]

>is there any program that is color managed to view jpgs that are created
in CS4 that we can check and compare?

this is a very easy test using Photoshop, Safari, Apple Preview.app AND the PDI file

Photodisc PDI target image download here <http://www.gballard.net/dl/PDI_TargetFolderONLY.zip>

make three copies of the JPEG image

open one copy in Photoshop (use embedded profile)
open 2nd copy in Preview (Apple application)
open Safari, drag the third copy into an open Safari window

all three applications are color-managed and will display the PDI image the same

if that's not happening then something else is going on

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

iCab is also color managed.

[randa...@adobeforums.com]

Thank you g ballard, but what would you suggest I do to run the test, go back to the calibrated settings for each the notebook and the monitor? This almost feels like what I experienced some months ago except there even CS4 and Bridge were mutated colors.

This time, it isn't CS4 or Bridge. Its browsers.

Ramon -

Thanks, will look at this browser to add to the test.

I just find it strange that all is well using Adobe products. And these are the same images I created way back when I had hardware problems. I don't think this is hardware.

The only other place to look is ColorEyes. Maybe after time or something the profiles are corrupted. But then why would Adobe not be affected? Strange.

Let's see what I can come up with. I leave in a week for Alaska so if nothing else, will reload the notebook after a format before I leave.

Thanks guys for your input

[g_ba...@adobeforums.com]

> what would you suggest I do to run the test, go back to the calibrated
settings for each the notebook and the monitor?

the monitor profile doesn't matter — they are all displaying SourceProfile>MonitorProfile (so they should all display the same)

my test was to confirm color management was working...

if you want to evaluate your monitor profile, use Photoshop and TRAIN your eye to evaluate the PDI target on (any) monitor to see how it is performing (regardless of quality)

likewise, if you want to evaluate your printing profile/worlflow, use Photoshop and TRAIN your eye to evaluate how the PDI target on prints paper

ical?
what's next...

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

ical?

I typed iCab in #6, if that's what you're referencing. It's a Mac-only browser that has been around for many, many years, since Mac OS 8 or possibly even longer. It certainly predates Safari.

[randa...@adobeforums.com]

Ok g ballard, hate to say but same results. If I set the icc profile for the notebook different than the ACD, then I get saturated or mutated colors on the ACD when viewing in Safari or Firefox using CM.

If I set the notebook to the same profile as the ACD, then both images look fine and the same.

So, is it ColorEyes? The OS? The notebook? I doubt truly that it would be the hardware. It appears to be software. Now, it could be ColorEyes. But it is just loading profiles. Why would I need to set both the monitor and the macbook pro to the same profile?

Any ideas or anything you want me to try? I am rebooting after changing profiles. I know this is strange. Truly bizarre.

I still have a feeling if I were to format and reload, this would go away, for at least a while before it would creep back up and again become a problem. Hum...