OT: What's the best digital camera for under $1000.

[Brett_...@adobeforums.com]

I'd like to upgrade from my Canon Digital Elph point and shoot camera to a more prosumer camera with the allowance for manual controls. I was wondering what your opinions were as to the best sub-$1000 digital camera.

Thanks in advance.

[Dick_...@adobeforums.com]

Brett,

How sub is sub? There are a bunch out there but most run pretty close to the upper limit.

The quick answer is the Canon 300D (Digital Rebel)

Dick

[Jesus...@adobeforums.com]

The Minolta Dimage 7HI 5MP is great, it's the one I used for shooting all the exhibit photos for January Artist of the Month (please stop by and take a look at them and post a note w/ your opinion).

I bought it for $1100 last July and it now sells for about $650 on bhphotovideo.com last time I looked. From what I've seen it's still the most full-featured digital on the market w/o going to a digital 35mm w/ interchangeable lenses. With that camera I no longer have to carry a camera bag w/ several lenses, filters, etc. just that one camera + a few filters.

Its successor the Minolta Dimage A1 is about $750 and includes image-shake stabilization technology and is probably the one I'd buy now. Fujifilm just released a $999 6.3MP that might be as full-featured and HP released a 5.3MP for $499 that isn't as full-featured but has a longer zoom range. If I was in the market right now I'd take a close look at those two as well.

Jodi's suggestion to look at the Canon Rebel $999 at Best Buy last I looked is also great, like she said, depends on what you need and what you want to do with it.

Robert Ash

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

the best ???? depends on what you want and want to do with your camera. Teck TV ' the screen savers' had their top 5 ...the Rebel was indeed on the list.

[JNB (John Burnett)]

Below $1000 U.S.? I'll assume so. There are many excellent cameras that qualify. I started out looking at a Sony 717 and thinking about its successor, the 828. But I eventually chose the Canon 300D Rebel. Some of MY reasons were:

• Full manual control with auto/semi-auto options. There are many cameras that have this, but it seemed easier to get where I wanted with the Rebel.

• Larger physical size – I had to don my reading glasses to see the screen and controls on my digital Elph (S100). Some of the prosumer choices were similar.

• SLR: Looking through the lens is so much nicer (to me) than looking through an optical or digital 'finder'.

• Larger sensor than most prosumer cameras. Sensor size has an impact on the ultimate quality of pictures just as the number of megapixels does.

• Interchangeable lenses. Whatever investment I've made in good Canon/third party glass I can take with me to the next model. Someday (probably sooner than we might think) a full-size sensor camera like the 1Ds will debut in a 'reachable' price range. Not for a few years, but someday.

The only 'drawback' to the 300D for me was the relatively slow kit lens which, at 3.5-5.6 (and usually stopped down more for quality) means more low-light situations require a tripod, increased ISO, or additional light (such as flash). That's not a problem for MOST of the photography that I do, but I like having the flexibility of a fast lens.

All or none of these things could be relevant to you. It's really a very personal choice.

Good luck. And one more word of advice – once you've purchased, don't look back. Just get out there and shoot!

[Bert_B...@adobeforums.com]

If you can wait a few months, Nikon is coming out with a "Rebel Fighter"...called the D70, I believe.

[Leen_...@adobeforums.com]

One thing to consider when buying a DSLR: dust on the sensor. When you are using interchangeable lenses, dust almost seems to be rocketing towards the sensor.
You will have to buy a sensor cleaning kit as well. I recently bought some sensor swaps and I was surprised to learn how people were able to sell at such extremely high prices! Unfortunately having the sensor cleaned is even more expensive.

Leen

[Ray]

Leen, what kit did you buy? I'm facing a serious MS-DOS (maddening spots [of] dust on sensor!)
problem. It seems that even when I don't change the lens, the sensor is collecting dust. I have a
10D.

Thanks!

Ray

[Stu_...@adobeforums.com]

The first thing you need to decide is whether you want to "buy a camera" or "invest in a camera system." If the former, I'd recommend looking closely at the the Minolta A1, the Sony F828, and the Nikon 5400. Each has its pluses and minuses.

There are other good choices in this class of cameras too, but those are the three I selected for my personal short list. Yours might vary, because what's most important to me may not be what's most important to you (for example, 28mm-comparable focal length is very important to me). And I can almost guarantee you that no camera on the market is going to have the perfect set of performance and features for your needs - you'll have to make compromises.

If the latter ("camera system") choice, then you're in SLR territory. The only sub-$1,000 choice right now is the Canon. The problem is that the lens is crappy (slow and not all that sharp), and its zoom range is limited. To get an SLR system today that will give you the functionality of any of the three non-SLRs I mentioned in the first paragraph, you're going to wind up spending a lot more than $1,000. Six months or a year from now, that probably won't be the case.

[Ed_Wu...@adobeforums.com]

After setting a budget, pick some features you can't live without.

For instance, I wanted at least a 10X optical zoom, manual focus and 4-5MP.
I didn't want proprietary battery system. If possible I wanted to preserve
my investment in xd memory.

That translated into Olympus C-750.

Ed

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

Check out this bear !>>

<http://www.sigma-photo.com/Html/Cameras_sd10.htm>

[Richard...@adobeforums.com]

If you are looking at an SLR system, the Rebel is the only choice at the moment, but you want something in the Point and Shoot variety you might consider the Canon G5. Shoots Raw.

Rich

[Leen_...@adobeforums.com]

Raymond, I bought this stuff:
<http://www.photosol.com/swabproduct.htm>

This was recommended to me in the manual of my camera.
It reduces the amount of dust considerably, although I think completely dust free is an illusion. Probably just only the Sigma DSLR and the new Olympus DSLR won't have any dust problems.

Leen

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

I don't know <confused look> :)

But the lab rats loved the picture quality which is why it was voted up there.

[Dick_...@adobeforums.com]

Jodi,

MEEEEEE TOOOOOOO.....altho I didn't see a price. Probably don't want to.

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

Dick $1,395

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

OK, Tech TV's Lab Rats voted these as the ones to want;

Canon Rebel
Canon G5
SONY Cyber Shot DSC-V1
Sigma SD10
Olymous E-1 dSLR

Any proud owners of these cameras out there ??...hands up !...tell !!

[Dick_...@adobeforums.com]

Leen,

I took a look at that site, you're right, they are expensive. One use? or multiples?

Dick

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

Dick...and it ' COMES' with lenses !!!

.....2 seperate lenses included. It's a monster but I'd love to have it !

[Marshal...@adobeforums.com]

In the high-end Point and shoot's, I have experience with the Canon G2, G3 and G5. All are great and offer manual overrides for shutter / aperture. However, I've find manual focusing nearly impossible. Other brands / models might be more intuitive and convenient.

If manual focus will be important, I'd have to vote for the 300D Rebel or the "Nikon to be named later." That way you could invest in lenses over time.

[Dick_...@adobeforums.com]

I looked at B&H. It's a bit less expensive than the Canon 10d, but with two lenses, hmmmm....

What's the deal with the 3.4mp red +blue +green equalling 10.2mp? Is that because of the Foveon chip?

Dick

EDIT: oops I didn't see you back there.

[Dick_...@adobeforums.com]

Darn, Jodi,

Just when I though the world was safe!

[Dick_...@adobeforums.com]

Jodi,

I don't either but I'm sure there is a good explanation somewhere! :)

Here's a link to Steve's Digicams review...food for thought

<http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/sigma_sd10_pg7.html>

Dick

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

Dick, well, it was the 'picture quality' that captured the attention with this camera among other reviewers. If I hit the lottery there would be quite a few cameras on my list ( I would be an insane collector ;) ) and yes, the Sigma would be one of them.

[Jesus...@adobeforums.com]

Hmm. Does the 3.4MP x 3 mean the Sigma is a 3.4MP and not a 'true' 10MP? is there a difference? any comments/clarifications on this?

Steve' Digicams has a more positive overall view of the Minolta Dimage 7HI and A1 cameras (no major shortcomings mentioned):

<http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/dimage7hi.html>
<http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/a1.html>

One thing he mentions about the Minolta that's dead-on accurate is its low-light capability. It literally has night vision or close to that. I was able to take a near-lightless night picture of 8+ seconds exposure and the color was surprisingly good.

This camera had the critical set of features that I considered 'must-haves' -- 5MP, wide zoom range, aperture/shutter/manual priority exposure as well as auto-exposure, per Ed's note plus great extras like built-in grid focus screen, autofocus, built-in 0-90 degree viewfinder, etc. and reasonable price.

Robert

[Chuck_...@adobeforums.com]

"the camera lacks many features available in non-SLR digitals"

Stu: What features do you see as missing in the digital SLR's?

Chuck

[Nan...@adobeforums.com]

Could that mean that the camera interpolates to produce the larger pixel count?

[Chuck_...@adobeforums.com]

Stu, thanks. I have the 10D, so I guess I'm on the other side of that
divide. However, I certainly agree with you on the luggability factor; just
went on a long driving trip, and the SLR and lenses stayed home. The
'mini-Canons' did their job well; the 230 ELPH spent time in my ski parka
and worked fine for a few grab shots and movies.

Chuck

[Stu_...@adobeforums.com]

My comment referred only to the Canon 300D. Sorry if that wasn't clear. That was the conclusion reached by the dpreview.com review, which nevertheless gave the camera the "highly recommended" rating, even though it said:

"What's the EOS 300D's weakness? Feature set. Canon are caught in a dilemma,
they had to have a camera with a reduced feature set otherwise nobody
would consider the EOS 10D (or any camera which replaces it). Almost laughably
the majority of the EOS 300D's limitations are 'programmed in', that is
they are simply software features which have been disabled. Obviously
reducing the feature set leaves the EOS 300D weaker in some respects than
many similarly priced prosumer digital cameras. Canon are clearly hoping
that the speed, AF, lens choice and low noise high ISO trade-offs will
be worth it for a considerable number of people, who will buy into EF
lenses and work their way up to an EOS 10D priced digital SLR in the future."

Some of the missing features the review mentioned:

"'Dumbed down' feature set (forced AI Focus, forced Evaluative metering,
etc.)

No flash exposure compensation

No Kelvin white balance selection in-camera

Reduced continuous shooting rate and buffer size (2.5 fps for max 4 images)

Five levels of parameter adjustment is welcome, but why stop there?

No parameter adjustment with Adobe RGB color space selected

White balance not fine-tunable

Lots of features lost due to removal of custom functions

ISO sensitivity not displayed on viewfinder status bar while being changed"

Quotes from:

<http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/page22.asp>

It makes no difference to me personally, since I've decided to forego digital SLRs. After 25 years of lugging around a camera case with four camera bodies and half a dozen lenses (plus the usual assortment of other stuff), I expect to be more than happy to have a single camera that will do everything my Nikons would do, and more.

[Leen_...@adobeforums.com]

Don't worry about all these features. You will hardly use any. Until recently I produced almost all my images with a manual focus, manual metering, manual winding and rewinding and "manual everything" camera.

Invest in sound knowledge about photography and you won't need all these features and your photography will improve. Nowadays I am using a Fuji S2 camera with "auto everything" and I didnot bother to read the manual about all these features. A sound understanding of "film" sensitivity, shutterspeed, aperture and focusing brings much better results than "auto anything".

All these extras are to justify a higher price tag. Hardly anyone uses the extras and usually the ones that do would have been wiser buying a compact camera than a camera that's part of a whole system.

Be sensible; invest in yourself and ask yourself what you really need in a camera. Next thing you should ask yourself is wether these extra gadgets are worth the extra money and how often you will really need these.

Leen

[jh...@adobeforums.com]

Sound advice and well put Leen. My last non digital was an all manual
Minolta that forced me to learn at least a small amount about
photography.

--
Have A Nice Day, :-)
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview

[Stu_...@adobeforums.com]

I've been using a pair of Nikon FMs - manual everything, though with a built-in meter - for 20 years (as well as a pair of auto-exposure FEs). Nevertheless, I can appreciate many of the features that modern digital technology makes available. Will I use every last feature of the Minolta A1 that I intend to buy? No. But will I use the anti-shake, settable ISO, real-time histogram, selectable color gamut, custom stored camera settings? You betcha. Do I expect this camera to take better pictures than the best I've taken with my Nikons? Probably not. Do I expect it to significantly improve the percentage of good shots I take? Decidedly so.

[Patti_A...@adobeforums.com]

Uh...didn't Brett ask about a pro-sumer level camera? :) Only one person mentioned the Olympus 750. And what about the new Olympus 5050? I've noticed there aren't many Olympus users on this list, is that a coincidence or is there something photographers don't like about them? Every review of the two aforementioned cameras I have read have been very good. And besides that, buying one of these might leave you some extra dough for extra lenses and filters.

Patti
Who just happens to own an Olympus C-4000Z. :)

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

Patti, to be honest with you....these threads can drive a person crazy ! There are sooooooo many great cameras on the market today. Some of the best cameras are overlooked while others are taken too seriously.

[Patti_A...@adobeforums.com]

I was just reading Steve's Digicam review of the Oly 5050 and I wish I had gotten it now. Prices always seem to drop on digicams right after I make a purchase. However...it's probably a good thing that I didn't get it, my old laptop gave out and I had to get a new one just before Christmas (I need to be portable). I'm sure I fried it using PSE -- ha!

Patti

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

Patti, forget about it.....it's impossible keeping up with cameras anyways. Yes, a new laptop is a good choice....I'd like to have one....just for chatting with forum folk while watching Animal Cops ....comfy on my bed...yes, that would be nice...Christmas 2004 watch out ! Wait, i have a birthday before that..hmmmm. No, i'm not spoiled...really i'm not.

[Patti_A...@adobeforums.com]

If I sat on my bed with this laptop, I would probably fall asleep on the keyboard, and I'm sure the hubby would probably protest. LOL

I didn't have to wait for my birthday or Christmas, with me it was business (I teach on line classes). Our family desktop just couldn't handle Elements...or CorelDraw...or my quilting software. At least I can write it off on my taxes. ;)

Patti

[Sha...@adobeforums.com]

Stu,

The last paragraph in your post #26 expressed more or less my own sentiments regarding the next digicam purchase after my current Canon G2. I had been lugging two, sometimes even three, 35mm bodies and a handful of lenses for a long time until I can no long carry the load. My Nikons now all sit in the back of the cabinet collecting dust.

I had been thinking of getting something like the Minolta A1, after seeing my friend's 7Hi. Or, something like the new Sony 8MPx, but haven't seen any review yet, and the Sony seem to be quite heavy. On top of that the Sony lists for a few hundred dollars more. Both has the 28mm coverage which is the minimum wide angle preferred for my interior shot, although I much prefer a single focal length 24mm. For my purpose, lens speed may be a bigger problem for lowlight interiors due to the higher noise in the smaller sensors. Upping the ASA to higher speeds seem to increase noise.

All things considering, my dream digicam would be like a compact light-weight DSLR with a large sensor and a 28-200mm (equiv.) lens for around $1000. Even without all the bells and whistles like a full-fledge pro DSLR, it's going to sell.

Shan

[Sha...@adobeforums.com]

Nancy,

My take from reading about the Foveon chip is that instead of the usual CCD sensor employing three pixels (one each for R,G and B)to record one pixel of RGB color, it's CMOS sensor allows all three R G and B to be recorded on the same pixel at different depths of penetration due to the different wave lengths. [SCIENTIST here please correct.]

So the resolution is claimed to be three times as much as the basic resolution. But I guess the proof of that will be in the final output. For reasons unknown to me, I have seen better prints out of a 2Mp than that of a 3Mp by the same manufacturer. And prints pulled from the same printer too. Go figure!

Shan

[Stu_...@adobeforums.com]

Shan,

Everything I've read about the A1's anti-shake technology, from both reviewers and users, says that it really does work and allows handholding down to 1/30 or 1/15 second or even less. That and the 28mm-equivalent focal length are what have me just about sold on this camera.

Minolta has announced two forthcoming add-on extenders for the A1, a 0.8X wide angle and a 1.5X telephoto - which would almost exactly duplicate the range my multiple Nikon lenses give me, 24 mm to 300 mm.

My personal dream digicam would be the A1 with the continuous shooting capabilities of the Fuji 5000/7000.

Edit - just came across this example of the anti-shake capabilities of the A1.

<http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=7190783>

[noel...@adobeforums.com]

Sub-1000 is a hot area right now and what's available changes almost monthly. Going with a Canon or Nikon enables use of aftermarket expansions to enhance your system, if you so choose. I have used the Coolpix 950 and 990 and find they have good manual options. My interest was in macro, and I find in the price range these are second to none.
You have not mentioned what requirements you have. I also find Steve's Digicam reviews a good information source.

[Schrave...@adobeforums.com]

here's a question that came to me while reading this thread.

Some people mention that they yused to carry a few bodies with them and a load of lenses each time they went on a photo shoot.

My question is as follows: Did you use the various lenses during one photo session or did you just take them with you just in case?
What I am trying to find out is that when I do buy a dslr, do I need to get into buying all these various lenses as well?

Robert

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

Robert

Recently I have discovered zoom lenses almost 95% of my images are now shot
with a 35 - 70 mm f/2.8 and/or a 50 mm f/1.8 (zooming with my feet). I do
have two other zooms, a macro and a 24 mm. All get used but sparingly

But I have had as many as 2 bodies and 8 lenses. Never did I take all of
them with me. Generally I took one body and three lenses a 35 mm, 50 mm
and an 85 mm to shoot with. About 80 % of my images were taken with the 50
mm 15% with the 85 mm and 5% with the 35 mm. All other lenses were only
used for specific purposes.

I suspect this tells more about how I approach photography than a general
set of rules for anyone else to follow. At times I think I have made a
terrible mistake buying the 35 - 70 mm lens, while it is more convenient
than a separate 35, 50, and 85 mm combination there are also problems with
this set up.

Grant

[Bert_B...@adobeforums.com]

After reading this entire thread, I have a few comments:

Someone said that DSLR's all suffer from dust on the CCD. Not so. My Olympus E-20 has a fixed (noninterchangeable) 35-140 zoom lens, so the camera is sealed...no dust. It's also a little different from other SLR cameras...it does not have a "flap-flap" mirror mechanism. Instead it uses a "beamsplitter" prism to direct light to the viewfinder. I particularly like the lack of noise that most SLR's have when the shutter is fired. Weaknesses? Very slow boot-up, and slow write to the memory card (it does have a small buffer). Everything else about this camera I love, even the weight, which is substantial. Especially with the battery pack, which I almost always use. It is very user friendly, but has all kinds of manual controls...including a pixel map function to eliminate failed pixels in the CCD...they recommend that you run it once a year.
The E-20 is an old design now, but I am very happy with it and have no plans to upgrade for a long time...and I LOOOVE new toys.
Bert

[Jim_...@adobeforums.com]

It really doesn't matter what camera you purchase. With a few exceptions, whatever camera an individual purchases is going to enable that person to take photographs. Some of them will be good, and if you're like me, a lot of them will be bad. And no matter what camera you purchase, within six months there will be something better and cheaper available. I keep looking at all these new cameras that are coming out, especially the digital SLRs, and I think myself, "WOW! It would be cool to have that capability." But in reality, I'm not even using half of the features of the digital camera that I have now. Quite frequently I'm able to get photographs with it that I really like. And my main complaint is that when I get brave enough to share the pictures with others it turns into a big technical discussion, what camera did you use, how many megapixels, what printer do you have, what was the resolution. And all I really wanted to hear is, "I really like that picture." And until I find that I need a capability that I don't have, I'm satisfied with what I do have. It just isn't worth trying to keep the technology current.

[Brett_...@adobeforums.com]

Wow!! That's basically all I can say. I never expected this much information -- I'm kind of on information overload here. The main complaint I have with the Canon S230 that I have now is the zoom -- only 2x. That's not enough. I often find myself wishing that I could get closer to the image I want to capture, but can't. Although I wish I had more manual control over certain features, I can probably live without many of them. So, after reading these posts, I know for sure I want to stay away from the DSLRs -- at least for now. I think that perhaps the Nikon 5700, the Dimage A1, or one of the Olympus models mentioned above might be the right one for me. I'll have to go play with them all and figure out which one is right for me. I can't thank you enough for all the feedback.

[Bert_B...@adobeforums.com]

It just isn't worth trying to keep the technology current.

Digital camera technology is moving so FAST, it would be almost impossible to keep up. And I agree with you, Jim, that most cameras have more capability than their owner/operator. I have owned my Oly E-20 for over a year, taken thousands of pictures with it, and have learned to use many of its features, but there are still many that I don't use...and probably should be using!
Bottom line: The most expensive camera will not guarantee you good pictures. It still comes down to skill, creativity...and LUCK!
Bert

[JNB (John Burnett)]

> Grant: Generally I took one body and three lenses a 35 mm, 50 mm and

an 85 mm to shoot with. About 80 % of my images were taken with the 50
mm 15% with the 85 mm and 5% with the 35 mm. All other lenses were only
used for specific purposes.

I agree that it comes down a lot to shooting style, preferred subject matter, etc. I am now using the Digital Rebel with the '1.6' factor. I have the 18-55 kit zoom and an 80-200 tele-zoom (equivalent to 29-88 and 128-320 on 35mm film camera). However, I routinely carry a 24 f2.8 Canon (38mm equiv.) which is used MOST often (slightly wide "normal" lens), a 90mm f2.8 Tamron Macro (144mm equiv.) used secondmost (macro and mild telephoto) and a 50mm f1.8 Canon (80mm equiv.) used occasionally, though I do expect this will become the 'portrait' lens. With the light Rebel body, I find the total weight tolerable for a 3-4 hour 'walkaround'. Total weight is around 3.2 lbs. and, at 14.2 oz., the macro lens accounts for much of it. The camera and 18-55 zoom only are just over 1.8 lbs. A far cry from my S100 Digital Elph at just 7.4 oz., but nothing like lugging medium format or 4 x 5 (which I used to do).

Do I miss the true wide angle? Sometimes, and I could carry that 18-55. But I found that I was relying on the 'zoom' and the wide perspective of the 29mm equivalent rather than 'thinking' about the pictures I was taking. As one of the reasons for my purchasing the Rebel was to get away from 'snapshots', this 'enforced discipline' of mine is something that is peculiar to me, and not necessarily an indictment of zooms.

EONS ago (well it seems like that) when I was an avid amateur, I took a 35mm and 85mm lens only in 35mm (zooms SUCKED way back then). A 2nd body was usually only because I wanted a different type of film, but it was also handy to have both lenses mounted. Digital has taken care of the film issue, and zoom certainly helps when you want different focal lengths available quickly. I never had the money to have anything more than the 'standard' lens in 2-1/4 or 4 x 5.

As the French say: chacun à son gôut!

[Ed_Wu...@adobeforums.com]

This was only phase1 of suggestions!

Your latest post starts phase2!!

BTW, since you mentioned zoom, use that to find more choices at
dpreview.com, etc.

Also, look for image stabilization. I had to do without to stay within
budget.

Ed

[Patti_A...@adobeforums.com]

Bottom line: The most expensive camera will not guarantee you good pictures.
It still comes down to skill, creativity...and LUCK!

Amen to that!

I know that my Olympus C-4000Z can take great photos, I just have to learn to use the manual controls better. I still could use a class to help me figure out what settings to use. The manual is extensive on the controls, but no help for real world situations when you don't know what they are talking about! I _can_ program my VCR...so I should be able to get this, right? :)

Patti

[jh...@adobeforums.com]

John how do you like your 90mm f2.8 Tamron Macro ? I am currently
looking for a good macro lens. All I have looked at is the Canon EF
100mm f 2.8 so far. What was your reason for buying the Tamron? What
others did you consider?

[noel...@adobeforums.com]

Nikon 5700 would have my vote!

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

I had a bit of camera wander lust a month or so ago and I probably drove
camera store sales people crazy. I did narrow my likes to the Nikon CoolPix
5700 and the Minolta DiMAGE A1. In fact I think that both of these cameras
are better buys than a digital Rebel (Rebel owners don't throw thing it is
just my opinion). They do have different ways of approaching things, for
example Minolta uses stabilizer technology and Nikon uses the true and tried
BSS for those difficult shots. These cameras are very close in many way but
they are of different sizes and I am sure the feel of one may be better
than the other in different peoples hand. I would suggest that you go to a
camera store and give both a good try out as they are excellent cameras.
Now for me, I liked the Minolta best if it took photographs as crisp as the
Nikon.or I would like the Nikon best if it had all the features and feel of
the Minolta.

Grant

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

buy both and stick 'em in the blender !

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

I know...scary isn't it ? ;)

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

Jodi

You are so wise ;-)

Grant

[Ed_Wu...@adobeforums.com]

Go to this site. Great examples of what is possible.

http://www.dpchallenge.com/camera.php?CAMERA_ID=424

Ed

[JNB (John Burnett)]

RE: Tamron SP90 f2.8 Macro

James, I read as much as I could about Macros and pared down the list to Canon 100, Tamron 90 and Sigma 105. ALL have been given EXCELLENT marks for optical quality, although one German test site seemed to think the Sigma was a bit off the mark (Sigma owners insist they got a bad copy). The Tamron was CONSIDERABLY less expensive than the Canon, however, especially during 'boxing week'. I have not yet had the opportunity to get out photographing too much this year, but some of my initial Tamron shots were posted in the Challenge, or can be viewed here: <http://www.pbase.com/burnettjn/macros>. A 'telephoto' shot with the 90 is here, <http://www.pbase.com/image/24735738.jpg> but don't judge sharpness from this one – it was handheld at around 1/60th of a second.

Truthfully, I haven't had it long enough to notice any deficiencies. But I don't expect to find many.

See here (warning, the top picture seems to have gone missing, so scroll down): <http://www.orchideen-kartierung.de/Macro100E.html> and here: <http://www.photozone.de/2Equipment/easytxt.htm#F100>

[jh...@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for the info and links. You have produced some very good images
with the Tamron lens. It seems very crisp and sharp with no apparent
problems to my untrained eye.

[Chuck_...@adobeforums.com]

James, I have the Canon 100mm f2.8 you cited; very good but very
heavy...has its own tripod ring (for extra $)

chuck

[jh...@adobeforums.com]

Do you have any pics from it posted anywhere?

[Patti_A...@adobeforums.com]

Go to this site. Great examples of what is possible. <http://www.dpchallenge.com/camera.php?CAMERA_ID=424>

Thanks for the link, Ed. Great stuff on that site. I'll have to check it out further. It's really nice to see photos from the all different cameras.

Patti

[Chuck_...@adobeforums.com]

James, no I don't - haven't had the 10D out for about three months. Will
try to get something going one of these days soon..

[Chuck_...@adobeforums.com]

John, I almost bought the Canon Pro90IS on e-Bay about a year ago....sorta
wish I had done that for the big zoom. I steered clear primarily because it
was only 3.2 megapixels. I should go back and look at that again
sometime...

Chuck

[John_R....@adobeforums.com]

Hi to All,

For two years, I have been using my trusted Olympus 2100UZ with its 10x optical zoom and F2.8-8.0 lens. Are there any fixed lens digital cameras out there that can match these lens features? And, I can even attach filters!
It has only 2.1 Mpix, but this is more than enough for most situations as my cropping requirements are minimal due to the big optical zoom.

Most of my output consists of 8.5x11" collages and all the pictures on the pictures on those pages are sharp. If I wanted to produce a 16"x24" collage of my photos, I know that all images in it would be sharp as well, with great color due to PE2. (Yes I know that a single picture of this size wouldn't be excessively sharp).

My next camera will be one with similar or better lens capabilities as I like the optical control over depth of field (via F-stop) and being able to get really close to what I'm photographing. E.g close to that couple having an intimate chat without being aware of my presence.
I'd be happy with 4-6 Mpix ccd as well, but the lens capabilities (F-stop range and big optical zoom) are mandatory.
Of course, I'll need the image stabilization and manual settings that I am used to. I know that through-the-lens viewing is best, but you don't need detachable lenses for this feature.

I'm watching and waiting,

John

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

John

You are in luck with a camera that fits your all your criteria it is the 4
meg Panasonic DMC FZ10. It has a constant F2.8 35 mm to 420 mm (35 mm
equivalent) stabilized lens. Right now the only flaw of the Panasonic has
to do with close up photography and that is only a flaw if you want to have
critical control at the macro ( Aperture and shutter priority is not
available to you). I know of nothing else 4 meg or higher that will fit
your bill although the Kodak DX6490, and Olympus C-570UZ do have lenses
that will do what you want but are not stabilized.

Grant

[Chuck_...@adobeforums.com]

Grant, do you have any experience with Panasonic? I'm leery of
manufacturers who don't have a track record in the film camera business. On
the other hand, they've been making VHS cameras since the beginning of
time...

Chuck

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

....and my mother in law bought a 1.6 mp SONY digital not too long afer that for $600..only takes diskettes, 4 pics at a time...ha ha ha ha...oops sorry, i shouldn't laugh.

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

My brother in law has a 1.3 mp panasonic digital.....he paid just over $500 not so long ago ....ha ha ha...oops, sorry, i shouldn't laugh.

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

sorry, it's just that the digital era progressed so quickly and i do feel sorry for those who spent all that money at that time.

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

Jodi

Be careful in 2 or three years someone may say the same about you. I know
they say that about me.

Grant

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

Chuck

I really like the Panasonic DMC FZ10! A good deal of my work is close up
and I tend to over ride all my cameras controls so that was the deal
breaker for me. Panasonic, up to now, has not really been know as still
camera company. They are an electronic firm and that is at least half the
battle in digital land. Now the people at Panasonic are not all that
stupid so realizing their limitation they did go into partnership with an
obscure optical/camera company to produce this products. Oh ... the company
is Leica have you ever heard of them.

Grant

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

....but I did not pay either one of those prices ;)

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

But in three years time you will probably get a three meg pixel camera as
part of your $65 cell phone. So the best thing is to get your moneys worth
of fun out of it and not worry about tomorrow.

Grant

[Chuck_...@adobeforums.com]

Grant, in scanning the reviews I picked up on the Leica connection; that's
good. When they launch one that has RAW capture and a few other
improvements, it'll be time for me to take them more seriously!

Chuck

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

So the best thing is to get your moneys worth
of fun out of it and not worry about tomorrow.

Absoluetly ! I still love my little Kodak despite the new toy.

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

Chuck

Take who more seriously Leica or Panasonic?

Grant

[Jodi...@adobeforums.com]

yes of course they will.

[Chuck_...@adobeforums.com]

Grant, I've always taken Leica seriously! Wished I could afford an M3 or M4
back in the days....
:-)

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

I had the use of an M3 for a couple of months ... it is a long story but
suffice to say I have a very good friend. After the month I was happy to
give it back and return to my SLRs (Pentax in those days). While the Leica
was well built you had to love it with all its flaws and there were
many...... just trying to load on quickly was an adventure in itself. Then
no one who knew ever questioned you commitment to photography when you
carried one.

Grant

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

Chuck

Fir what it is worth Leica is introducing a new digital camera on March 1
called the "Leica Digilux 2" They are presently taking orders for it in
Canada so if you happen to have an extra $2699 around it could be yours.

http://www.leica-camera.com/digitalekameras/digilux2/index_e.html

Grant

[Chuck_...@adobeforums.com]

Grant: Now THAT one looks like a real camera!!
:-)

[Dick_...@adobeforums.com]

Interesting that the camera itself weights less (605 g) than the battery (705g)

Sure looks nice, however.

Dick

[George S. Forman]

I bought the Canon 300D digital rebel and LOVE it. for $999.00 with a 18-55mm lens it is one of the best deals out there. the kit lens is suprisingly good despite the cheap look & feel. there were some problems with some of the earlier cameras but mine has worked exactly as advertised and i couldn't be happier. i picked up a couple of used lenses (sigma 70-300 & canon 35-105 ) plus a new 50mm f/1.8 for portraits and along with a cheap smith victor light set i am taking some of the best photos i have ever taken. i'm not ready to open my own studio yet, think i'll stick with my day job, but i am having fun and learing something all the time. i can highly recomend this camera to anyone who is considering a DSLR in the near furture.

[Juer...@adobeforums.com]

> Interesting that the camera itself weights less (605 g) than the
battery (705g)

Dick,

It says: "approx. 630 g without/705 g with battery"... I think the battery
weighs 75g. Would be quite heavy otherwise. I wouldn't mind owning that
camera. :)

Juergen

[Stephen_...@adobeforums.com]

Chuck & Ray,

Now that I've fallen into the "investment" into the Canon 10D, I'm feeling the need for more lenses. If money was no object, I'd get all "L" lenses, f/2.8, etc. Howver, reality is pushing me to the slower ones (f/4) for half the price. (17-40, 100-400.) Any thoughts on those compromises?

Steve

[Bert_B...@adobeforums.com]

My brother-in-law just bought a D-Reb. I visited him last week and played with it...took a few pix. My wife looked at them and said...."What's that spot?" We both looked, and there was a rather prominent black spot in the upper right quadrant of every image. It appeared to be in focus, so I said..."It's not on the lens" I was sure it was on the mirror, but when we removed the lens, the mirror looked clear. I finally concluded it was on the sensor, and I wasn't about to tackle removing it on a camera I was unfamiliar with. I recommended that he take it back to the camera store where he bought it and tell THEM to clean it. Dunno if he did, though. He left for England a few days later. Oh well...PSE will take care of it...
Bert

[jh...@adobeforums.com]

I'll second that emotion. D Reb owner since the day it was released! I
spent my anniversary driving to Denver and back in a little over 9
hours( usually 5+ hours each way). This record time included picking up
my son and shopping! He argued with the manager at Best Buy and got me
15% off. Camera and lens for $849.99.

--
Have A Nice Day, :-)
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview

[Chuck_...@adobeforums.com]

If I do my arithmetic correctly....a 705 gram battery would equate to more
than a pound-and-a-half. I'd better get a couple thousand shots outa that
one before recharging....
:-)

[Bert_B...@adobeforums.com]

Any thoughts on those compromises?

My last 35mm SLR had an f1.4 lens. When I look at these new "premium" lenses...f5.6 or whatever...I am stunned.
Whatever happened to really FAST lenses?
Bert

[jh...@adobeforums.com]

Pec Pads.

[Ray]

Bert, the fast lenses are still available. At a price. A price I can't afford or justify :-)

Ray

[Ray]

James,

I was never really good at bargaining... do you think your son could volounteer himself for a few
hours, I need to change my computer ;-)

Ray

[jh...@adobeforums.com]

Eh! For a trip to Canada, sure he would. Heck I'll accompany him.

--
Have A Nice Day, :-)
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview

"Ray" <carbon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10B81F7314F72AE3...@in.webx.la2eafNXanI...

[Dick_...@adobeforums.com]

Juergen,

Oops.....I don't think I read the fine print!

;)

Dick

[Ray]

Steve,

I don't know these lenses in particular. Those that I currently have are :

- Sigma 28mm DG EX f/2.8. For some obscure reasons, I can't get the best out of it. Despite it's
nice luminosity, big focus ring, etc, etc... I just don't feel comfortable with it. It does make
superb pictures. Pictures are rich and very saturated.

- Canon 28-105 USM II f/3.5-4.5. This is my prefered lens. The one I use 90% of the times. It's
clear, sharp and I really have learned to use it at every occasion.

- Canon 100-300 USM f/3.5-5.6. This one has given me some troubles I haven't seen before going
digital. Color aberrations. With 35mm, I never printed picture at more than 4x6. But now, with
the 10D, I print and see my pictures with their full details (8 x 10). I started to notice lines of
colors around contrasting objects. Colors that weren't in the original scene. I realized it's not
a good lens. So avoid it, unless someone says otherwise. I'm using it only for special effects
(shots of the Moon, subjects that I'm unable to get close enough to).

- Canon 50mm f/1.8. I've used a few times. It's perfect, but very, very limiting. For my 35mm, it
was the best 50mm lens!

Remember that with the 10D, you can shoot at 800 ISO pretty easily (and in daylight, ISO 1600 is
acceptable as per several users on this forum, but not me), with very limited grain. You get one
extra stop for that. Granted, it won't turn an f/3.5 into f/1.4, but it will help in problematic
situations.

Ray

[Ray]

Bring your winter stuff with you. And lots of hot liquids :-)

Ray

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

Bert

With the crave for convenience and zoom lenses the great fast lens are not
sold as often. It is difficult and costly to manufacture fast constant
f-ratio zoom lens so compromises are often made. This is a shame because
most camera manufactures make wonderful 35, 50, 85, mm lenses that are
fast, sharp and light weight. With fixed lenses in 35-85 mm range you can
easily zoom with your feet so that is not the concern. The disadvantage of
fixed lenses is you do have to change lenses a bit more often. I, like many,
have succumb to this and purchased a 35 - 70 mm f/2.8 it is a great lens
but not as good as the three individuals. I now have a 50 mm f/1.8 and I am
constantly questioning if I should trade this zoom for the other two
lenses.

Grant

[Bert_B...@adobeforums.com]

Grant,
Zoom lenses have improved a lot. Back in the 70's when I had my Pentax, the lens that came with it was a 50mm f1.4, a wonderful, fast, sharp lens, but very limiting. So, I bought an 80-210 zoom and it was a disaster! I don't remember the (off)brand, but it was cheaply made and I got what I paid for, or less. Even today, I am sure there are compromises in the design of any zoom lens, even an expensive one. The other problem is weight! A long fast lens is BIG! I guess the best solution will be "faster" sensor arrays so we can use higher ISO settings. I haven't read much about the speed of the new CMOS and Foveon (which I think is CMOS also) sensors. I hope somebody is working on faster sensors, though. That's a much better solution for available light photogaphy than humongous pieces of glass.
Bert

[Grant...@adobeforums.com]

A while back some one asked why there were no Olympus cameras recommended
and I suspect it was only because people were unfamiliar with these cameras,
If you want to see a good site with lots of Oly' information
http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/index.html Mind you it is a tad bias toward
Olympus but I think it is well done and lots can be gleamed from this site.

Grant